What are /lit/ thoughts on Hip Hop lyricism 2.0?

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I used to listen to a lot of hip-hop but my interest died out about 3 years ago.

Nowadays I just can't listen to it anymore. Like most people, my taste in music have changed, I guess.

Outkast, especially Big Boi is the only hip-hop I can stand now. They got a kind of "playfulness" that few have in their raps even when they are serious, without losing out musically.

You're an embarrassment on all levels.

I don't know. I think a medium should play to it's strength, and with rap the actual narrative contents of the song aren't it strong suit - and never will be as far as I'm concerned .

I'm far more interested in flow, punchlines, rhymes, beats and so on. I don't care if it's about ooga booga muh dick or nonsensical meme shit like yung lean, as long as the musical component is tight.

Not literature

Killer Mike is my favorite but in terms of lyricism you can't beat Geto Boys.

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>>9083616
>>9083628

>>9083556
Hip hop is garbage and anyone who likes it is mentally a child.

Nigga, you are asking he wrong board. This is frequented by beta white boys that believe themselves superior to the plebeian tastes of the proletariat. The irony is that rap is the only genre of music that gives the listener a similar experience to literature.

>>9083639
If you want to discuss hip-hop in a /lit/ context, you should have done "what is the /lit/ equivalent of death grips" or some shit

read iceberg slim if you want some street black shit tho

>>9083626
>hip hop
>musical
Hip hop is the YA of music

>>9083648
Go back to your home board, nigger

>>>/mu/

>>9083651
>discuss hip-hop in a /lit/ context,
>what is the /lit/ equivalent of death grips

Name a good Death Grips thread ever. You can't.

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>>9083656
this is now a diablo thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET7OEgRgwPU

>>9083556
Liquid Swords is a pretty good album. The rest of those are pretty shit

>repeating catchy buzzwords over a beat = poetry

>>9083678
>repeating catchy buzzwords over a metre = poetry

ftfy

>most of this thread implying that Joyce wouldn't have fucking loved Kool Keith's wordplay

>>9083556
I can see rapers with nobel prices in the future

Not that the nobel prize means something anymore, but there is.

>>9083556
i prefer bankroll fresh and kodak black

>>9083866
some of the prizes are still meaningful. it's just the peace prize that is worthless

>>9083556
If you're gonna talk about the lyricism of Death Grips at least make it Niggas on the Moon, that's their best album in terms of lyrics.

No MF Doom my dude? Really?

In hip-hop, there's a sense that its wordplay is lackluster, not because of rap itself, but because your comparison of of one rappers song vs a book seems incompatible in terms of total linguistics. Leaning towards the book is rather more comfortable I find. But when rappers work towards their opus, they're keeping together their former wordplay, they keep getting more drastic in trying to raise the bar and their career winds up being like pieces of a book. Mind you the intermingling of writers is a bit more precarious, instead of working together to further eachothers careers, its more like creating the next chapter.

>>9083556
>Death Grips
Fucking "dangerous" shitpster drawing. Get it outta my face!

Beastie Boys and Snoop Dogg is where it's at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gUM9uNXHEo

>>9083927
>No Love Deep Web, that's their best album in terms of lyrics.
FIFY

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http://poly-graph.co/vocabulary.html

>>9084514
>all my favorites are to the right of 4500

Nice.

>>9084514
Proving once again West Coast sucks.

>>9083648
>what is any genre with lyrics
stupid ape

>>9083645
Kys close-minded pleb

>>9083556
lil ugly mane up in this bitch
>RATHER TAKE THE LATTER ROUTE
>THE LADDER ROUTE
>ROPE AROUND MY NECK AND KICK THE LADDER OUT

>>9085888
holy... dang....... deep.............

>>9085888
Represent.

>>9085890
>Bitch I'm morose and lugubrious
>I'ma let the Uzi spit
>Turn his face into gooey shit
>Bitch I'm lugubrious, my trap game is stupidest
>You acting like I'm new to this
>I been sick since the uterus
>I equate your uselesness to bitches that are bootyless

>>9085888
28 GRAMS GOTTA BAG EM OUT
STANDIN IN THE RAIN FEELIN BAD ABOUT
THE MOMMAS LOSING JOBS OVER THE ROCKS THAT I BE PASSIN OUT
IN VAST AMOUNTS

>>9085941
>>9085916
>>9085888

....cringe......

can anyone explain the appeal of this

being 100% genuine

like, when i read these lyrics and listen to other hip hop, it all feels like wish fulfilment; living vicariously through rappers.

is this the music equivalent of fantasising over throwing a touchdown pass to win the superbowl, only 100x more degenerate?

RAINDROP

DROP TOP

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(you when listening to rap)

Give enough chimps typewriters they can make something similar enough to music.

>>9083556

All aesthetic, no art. /thread

>>9086047
That's pretty accurate in all honesty. You might still enjoy Death Grips though, they ratchet up the hedonism to an absurd level (to illustrate the consequences of doing so) and display a level of self-awareness not found in most rap.

"Schizo superscript scan the voice imprint only I can hear you
Deserted mansion in my head half-lidded lanterns returnin'
Sclera scarlet as wall of virgin bombed by flask of bourbon
Can't be certain
Your intercom I'm fingering, you don't wanna but you buzz me in"

>>9086126
of all the lyricals mc ride has written, you pick this one?

I appreciate when rappers put serious work into their lyrics but I never really equate any music lyrics to the same level as literature. Doesn't mean it's not fun though.

And I hope y'all know lil ugly mane has better releases than just mista thug isolation.

>>9083754
This. Kool Keith is ill as hell.

>>9086047
this particular guy did it ironically. listen to how demented he sounds here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT3tRaaOhHc

>>9086047
kind of, the biggest rap fans I know watch videos of rappers bragging about smoking weed and having a lot of money, and now their only dream in life is to live in luxury and smoke weed all day.

garb age

Hear ye, hear ye! How dare ye
Go up against the king who do his thing tri-yearly?
They too carefree with their mouths around here
Off with his head, and display it at Town Square
On top a seven-feet spike, make sure it's on tight
In light of when the peasants throw stones with all their might
Skull get smashed for weeks
'Til vulture beaks eats the last meat off the cheeks
Maybe then they'll know the right words to speak
Out loud, at home, in the world, or in the streets

>>9083556
Hip-hop and rap are the shittiest form of art ever existed

>>9086447
Ok dad.

>>9086447
Good point, well made. Now tell me how Elvis's hips are the devil.

The greatest Hip Hop song is Machine Gun Funk.

Its kitsch music.

>>9085849
Lol you think that two stanzas, a chorus, and maybe a bridge is the same as bar after bar of unique content? Kys.

>>9083556
OP has fantastic taste.
I think good kid MAAD city was just as good as tpab, hard for me to give the edge to either. Outkast is way too often overlooked. They have great bars everywhere but there was some transcendent thought and observations mixed in on stankonia that a lot of people missed cuz the hooks were so damn catchy.

What's the Boy in Da Corner of literature?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3eHRrySwPo&index=5

>>9083938
I was thinking the same thing

>>9083684
epic

>>9086075
This, stop cucking yourself musically

>>9083684
>He can't flow
>He thinks it's as simple as Homer
Bruh, this better be bait.

>>9086456
>>9086531
>if you don't like le latest trend ur a le old person who just doesn't get it
Life isn't an 80s high school movie retards

>>9087912
No but neither can you deny that rap is a very dynamic and valuable art form even if you personally do not care for it. I don't care for bebop jazz, mostly, but many artists whom I admire and enjoy enjoy it and draw inspiration from it. Stop being so binary with your thinking.

I'm a big rap fan because I like poetry. I enjoy when words that are put together flows like water. It isn't poetry, but it's the closest musical equivalent. I like to read and reread lyrics and uncover hidden meanings. The problem with rap is the low barrier of entry, since anyone can put together a rhyme on a beat you have to go through a lot of shit to find something good. It's cliche to say but the mainstream rap and hip hop is trash, every one sounds the same because most rappers are looking for the paycheck not pushing the genre forward. Yesterday I was going through the big hip hop playlist on spotify and it was pathetic. Ctrl C Ctrl V


>>9083612
>>9087669
This. Outkast is the goat and no rappers have gotten even close to them
>>9083652
>>9083645
>>9085849
>>9083655
>>9083678
>>9086075
>>9087907
>>9086089
>>9086085
>>9086447
>>9087669
Not an argument faggots

>>9083556
>death grips, lamar or nas even near to gza
OP, pls, this ain't /mu/.

>>9083866
Would be really difficult to separate honest and well made lyrics from exploits (lamar, kanye). I think Liquid Swords is up there, but I don't think someone is ever groing to give a Wu Tang member something that "prestigious".

>>9088068
Nas > GZA > Kendrick > DG

Garbage, not literature.

/mu/ is worse for music. For one, they think trendy music has merit because it's trendy.
>>9084514
Vocabulary is irrelevant you fucking idiot. You realize that words are created, right? You realize that English was a smaller language when Shakespeare was writing, and that he used good words rather than le quirky meme words like thesaurus rappers do, right?
>>9087926
Jazz is also garbage. Neither have value.

>>9088035
Pretty good arguments. If only you niggers on lit could understand how arguments worked.

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>>9088365

>>9084514
>more words = more good
Hip hop fans are subhuman retards

>>9088340
meme

>>9088375
Longest word average is Aesop rock.

>>9088340
>jazz is garbage
>cretin
Dont call something garbage, just because youre a music pleb

Also, rap truly is not poetry, but if intelligent, it can be fun.

>>9088435
>rap truly is not poetry
Wrong

>>9088435
That was back when I was 9
Joey packed a 9
Packistan on every porch was fine
We adapt the crime
Pack a van with 4 guns at a time
With the sliding door
Fuck is up?
Fuck you shootin for if you ain't got the pump?

>>9088435
I know more about music than you.

Jazz is garbage, rap is not intelligent.

>>9088468
Yeah, kendrick is dope. But rap is rap and poetry isnt rap. Poetry doesnt need to rhyme to be poetry or good, rap needs to rhyme to sound good. Messages conveyed are similar, as is with every expression of language. But lets not compare rap and poetry, for the sake of not degrading poetry. A single great poet, i believe, has more inherent value, than most rappers. Rap is just a play on words, that sometimes is "deep". Poetry on the other hand is closer to the purity of real expression, as there is no ulterior motive to it - like music.

>>9088487
"knowing" and "experiencing" are different things, buddy

>>9088487
Who cares what you think? There are people who know even more about music than you and disagree.

>>9088514
I've performed and written more music than you.

It's garbage music, too many chefs spoil the broth and such.
>>9088515
No they don't.

>>9088340
what it must be like to be so arbitrarily convicted and walled in

>>9088524
Wow you're probably two years into a music degree in one specialised form of music and you have led yourself to believe there's only one way of making music which is that singular form.

You can write and perform music, sure, but you don't know a lot about music. You know the craft, not the art.

>>9088533
This

Any half good musician can appreciate most forms of music, but its not forbidden to dislike them

>>9088525
t. Platonist
>>9088533
I've never been to university for music, I was trained privately when I was a kid.
>but you don't know a lot about music. You know the craft, not the art.
According to? Yes, I'm sure the 'art' of music is masturbating on the stage instead of spending the time to create actual beautiful music. Nope, that's just SHIT for dead old white dudes.
>>9088555
Wrong, only bad musicians like rawk and such except for its aesthetic.

>>9088533
>someone who is a professional musician is obliged to like talking over a beat
wew lad

>>9088524
Wrong analogy, but i can see what bothers you. Personally, music is like choosing a particular type(s) of restaurant employing a chef that suits your tastes

>>9088579
haha my truth and your truth haha

Fucking Reddit Relativists.

>>9088570
Art is about aesthetics, is it not? Of course it can be structured and perceived mathematically, but surely, feelings caused by music need not be justified by some strict form you so obviously value

>>9088587
Life is relative, dipshit

>>9088570
>spending the time to create actual beautiful music

I can't imagine what it's like to be cucked by my own lack of intelligence. 'Actual beauty' isn't qualified because you associate it specifically with the music you were trained in. What a joke.

You know what music is also used for, other than some poorly defined idea of 'beauty'? Dancing. I'm not judging 'art music' for not being able to dance to it, and I don't see the point in judging dance music for not being able to sit down and appreciate it's 'beauty'.

But like whoa dude music is so mathematical!

>Everything I don't like is masturbation
>If you disagree with me you hate white people

I hope your music has more integrity than your arguments.

>>9088596
No.
>>9088600
No, I'm right and everybody else is wrong. Reddit Relativism is what happens when post-modernism meets humanism.
>>9088608
t. redditor that can't read.

btw 'art music' is often dance music too. Especially modern 'art music'.

>>9088608
>'Actual beauty' isn't qualified because you associate it specifically with the music you were trained in.
I was trained in baroque piano; I don't listen to baroque piano.

>>9088613
Ok, live long and prosper.

Lets go ahead and ignore the premise that life and the whole universe is not uncertain at every step.
Unless youre religious, then you can forget we even conversed

>>9088613
Unironically your opinions are more Reddit than mine and you are incapable of defending them.

>>9088507
R.a.p. literally stands for rhythm and poetry. Rap is poetry and poetry is rap. Hip hop is an urban culture that incorporates poetry as one form of expression. Really the aesthetic of the movement isn't rap it's hip hop and rap is the hip hop word for poetry.

>>9088622
I'm really glad you told me that.

>>9088629
>FUCKING CHRISTIAN WHITE MALES REE
>>9088630
Why would I defend myself when I'm right? Fuck off, Platonist.

>>9088635
It CALLED something so thats what it is!!!!

>>9088639
Why would white people defend their own countries when they are right?

>>9088608
>classical music can't be danced to
That's completely false. Mozart and Bach wrote with human movement in mind, just not the catchy primitive ape-like dancing of nigger music.

>>9088641
Yes that's usually how naming goes. For instance you were born and your mother named you shit head, therefore you are shit head.

>>9088635
I dont see it as such, although i can accept it a lesser cultures form of poetry. I do enjoy some hiphop artists, but i dont regard them as poets, just musicians.

There are lots of great poets who were also musicians (the Greek lyricists, the troubadours, etc) but rappers just aren't great poets. At best they can repeat catchphrases and psuedo-deep nonsense but there's nothing that approaches artistic mastery. This is because they aren't artists so much as entertainers, and rap isn't as much art as commercial entertainment.

>>9088639
I must have expressed myself poorly, i am not religious, although i had a religious upbringing. Also, white masterrace

Not literature. Stop responding to bait you stupid cucks.

>>9088652
HAHA TOTALLY EPIC
>>9088671
How is that relevant?

>>9088668
Were the troubadours really great? They just sang about smut for the courts.

>>9088679
>he hasn't read Arnaut Daniel in his original language

>>9088677
You called me a christian white male, which i technically am. Kys if you regard that as bad, you immigrant pseud. If not, carry on.

>>9088688
Christianity isn't Judaism, you aren't one just because you were raised one.

>>9088687
No I speak Occitan fluently.

>>9088696
True, but what was taught to me is still a part of me. I dont belong to it, but i value its values

>>9088708
No you don't, since you aren't one.

>>9088655
Poetry is derived from music, not the other way around. It could be said that all poets are musicians of language. That being said anybody who writes poetry is a poet. You can argue how good they are but they are a poet nonetheless. Furthermore, and this isn't directed at you specifically, poetry has a long tradition of doggerel, or not serious, work so I could easily put much of club music in this category of doggerel and it neither subtracts from the validity of serious rap music and certainly doesn't disqualify the form in general.

>>9088365
Just insulting something isn't an argument. Back to your containment board please

>>9088715
Ok, you would know better than i. I can see your life must be fun all neatly boxed in a walled off world your parents laid the foundation for

>>9088732
My parents weren't religious.

>>9088668
>And then fleet footed Achilles
>And then fleet footed Achilles
>And then fleet footed Achilles
Tell me more about repetitive catch phrases.

>>9088739
>he read Greek lit in English
lol

>>9088721
Fair point, although i stick to my notion that poetry is a purer expression than in the form of rap

>>9088721
"Serious" rap is still psuedo-intellectual shit.

>>9088742
It's repetition no matter the translation. It has to do with fitting a rigid rhythm structure. Sound familiar?

>>9088735
Neither are mine, they merely pretend

>>9088755
>It's repetition no matter the translation.
lol, Greek is structurally very different from English which is why it doesn't translate well. Greek being inflected means that it has a much freer structure than English does, which is why many different phrases are translated into just "flat-footed Achilles".

>>9088739
It was oral poetry, rather than meticulously-written meme garbage.

>>9088745
Well what form of poetry do you speak? Rap is simply free form to a beat so are you not a fan of free form either? Is it only sonnets for you?! Really I don't understand where you're coming from.
>>9088748
What isn't in your eyes? Mein kempf?

>>9088576
>2017
>thinks rap is talking over a beat
You don't have to like it big know what your talking about before you shitpost
>>9088507
>rap needs to rhyme
Listen to spottieottiedopaliscious
>>9088668
Please stop spouting shit you clearly know nothing about. Those greek poets employed repetition in almost every one of their works, go read any greek tragedy. And how isn't rap an art form? Music is art and rap is musical genre.

>>9088769
>Mein kempf?
>kempf

>>9088773
Popular music isn't art.

>>9088773
>Please stop spouting shit you clearly know nothing about. Those greek poets employed repetition in almost every one of their works, go read any greek tragedy. And how isn't rap an art form? Music is art and rap is musical genre.
Repetition != repetitiveness

>>9088778
This

>>9088774
Yeah idk man I never memorized how to spell stupid books.

>>9088769
>What isn't in your eyes? Mein kempf?
haha I get it because everyone who doesn't get on their knees and kiss the ground black rappers walk on is a Nazi haha

>>9088778
Rap≠pop music

>>9088769
As i said, i do enjoy rap, but i think that the train of thought of the writer is different if he writes so he can rap it, or writes to hear the beauty and music of the words themselves.

>>9088790
It's a word. Why are you on /lit/ if you don't know any German?
>>9088797
Yes it is, by definition it is popular music.
>≠
Don't use that in language please.

>>9088778
why not?

I saw death grips live at a small venue in England a few years ago. Not being particularly acquainted with the fan base I expected it to be full of intimidating black guys but was surprised to see it was almost entirely middle-class white guys there, like me.

The gig was pretty fucking good though, being showered in MC Ride' s beard sweat was a highlight.

>>9088794
Nah but anyone who thinks that Andre 3000, Kendrick Lamar, killer Mike, el-p, and Aesop rock are pseudo intellectuals is just fucking dumb enough to buy into /POL/ nonsense.

>>9088814
>Andre 3000, Kendrick Lamar, killer Mike
>not pseudo intellectuals
LOL

>>9088814
Well, they ARE pseuds. That doesnt devalue the truth they might speak

>>9088821
>white ppl suck!
>truth
Fucking moralizer.

>>9088803
No, some pop musicians use rap in their songs but this doesn't make all rap pop music. All squares are rectangles not all rectangles are square.

>>9088825
Sue me

>>9088826
>I don't know what popular music is
Fuck off child.

>>9088819
What makes them pseuds then? They're more well read than most of this board.

>>9088833
>they are black
>they are american
>they rap
Okay

>>9088778
>here is my arbitrary definition of art that I base on what I currently like at the moment
>>9088783
Please shut the fuck up. Repetition becoming repetitive is a matter of opinion

>>9088819
>someone I don't like expressing their thoughts
>PSUED LOL

>>9088833
>>9088842
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/23942
>Yfw Tupac has been verified to have read more books than you
Fuck outta here you half educated /POL/ster

>>9088833
>>9088848
>saying that "wow im so oppressed :(" is intellectual

>>9088848
Their ass-simple thoughts.

>>9088850
Oh look, muh oppression

>>9088853
>>9088857
>have not listened to above artists
There's nothing wrong with not enjoying a particular genre of music, but please at least try to act like you have any experience or a real opinion before you shit up this board

>>9088865
I have, get your head out of your ass.

>>9088865
>trend-following nigger tries to pretend like his favorite rappers are intellectuals
cringe

>>9088853
So black people weren't oppressed? Or philosophic value can't come from the oppressed?

>>9088850
Also, being literate does not make you an intellectual. He was a pseud like most of us, the other portion of humanity isnt even a pseud.

>>9088870
Wow really convinced me there. Because Andre 3k only talks about oppression right? So you can totally explain to me how Synthesizer, Elevators, aquemini, so fresh so clean, skew it on the bar b, 2dope boys, art off story telling, hey ya, wheelz of steel, D.E.E.P, spottieottiedopaliscious, return of the g, crumblin erb, spaghetti junction, snappin an trappin, and atliens are about oppression?>>9088872
>calling musicians intellectuals
Also
>once again providing no argument but insults

>>9088880
Philosophy is something beyond a simple hurr durr im opressed

>>9088858
>>9088853
>>9088870
>>9088872
https://genius.com/Kendrick-lamar-the-blacker-the-berry-lyrics
Educate yourself then get back to me

>>9088891
>arguments are good because platonism
>>9088899
muh oppression christianity is dumb

>>9088892
>haha yea I use made up strawmen to generalize a genre consisting of tens if thousands of artists haha totally man we are so intellectual because we read real philosophy yea haha

>>9088905
Just stop man, your "muh" argument will not save you

>>9088910
Tens of thousands of 'artists' can be all awful, you know.
>>9088917
>arguments are good because reddit

>>9088399
>longer words = longer good
Thanks for once again confirming that hip hop fans are subhuman retards

>>9088922
They can be awful but got cannot explain why they are awful with a dumb one liner faggot.
>arguments are good because reddit
What the fuck are you on about, stop explaining your thoughts like a 14 year old

>>9088899
Congratulations, you must be so proud that you see the world for what it is, as does kendrick. He truly is a prophet

>>9088935
Why would I explain myself?

>>9088910
Kys, and read some books beforehand

>>9088947
Hahahahaha, wrap it up folks it's done. Goodnight and drive safe
>>9088954
Wow man you've convinced me. I only like rap because ive never read a book, whoa you've opened my mind

>>9088933
No this is why Aesop rock is good

Yoput one up shackle me, not clean logic procreation
I did not invent the wheel I was the crooked spoke adjacent
While the triple sixers lassos keep angels roped in the basement
I walk the block with a halo and a stick poking your patience

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>>9083556

>>9088958
explanation is good because good ol plato said so
>>9088962
That's not good, that's fucking garbage.

le meme works strung together from a thesaurus isn't good writing.

>>9088958
Sorry, i thought it was implied that philosophy concerns itself with the metaphysical, the problems that dont really have a definitive answer. But they are likely to arise from oppression, among others

>>9088941
>Proven wrong about hip hop sticking to a simplistic untrue narrative
>Sarcastically says I must be proud Kendrick sees the world for what it is
I am. And you my friend got BTFO

>>9088976
That song is simplistic garbage, you're a retard.

>>9088968
Except he's making a coherent point in each bar you're just too pleb to understand it. Would you like a line by line go through so I can catch baby's mind up?

>>9088968
>haha I call things memes to substitute a real opinion
Once again for the tenth time:
Not an argument

>>9088981
Goooooood one.
>All this butthurt it's like when Milo wakes up from a binge weekend.

>>9088984
>coherent point
A terrible one. An irrelevant one. Any half-rate poet can string together lines of irrelevant bullshit. Shelley made himself famous from that.
>>9088987
Why are arguments good?

>>9088976
I never claimed that it sticks to a simplistic narrative, constantly - you must have mistaken me for someone else. Anyways, cloaking it in higher meaning and metaphors doesnt give any more value to its simplistic entry level disillusionment

>>9088976
That had a simplistic untrue narrative.
>the world is objective
read nee chee

>>9088991
kek, you're pathetic

>>9088981
So post an example on lyrics that isn't simplistic garbage? I want to know what your tastes are
>>9088992
Holy shit you faggot, you aren't a deep philosopher because your read that summary of Plato and now question the idea of an argument to substitute a real argument. Just admit you don't know what your talking about and leave

>>9089005
>So post an example on lyrics that isn't simplistic garbage? I want to know what your tastes are
I'm not the guy you were responding to, but I can't. Pop music is shit and not /lit/.

>>9088995
Best chinese dish

>>9089005
t. redditor that doesn't know what 'platonism' is.

Fuck off back to your crack den.

>>9089010
Ok? When did I say anything about pop music?

>>9089013
HAHAHA do you think Platonism is some obscure philosophy?? You can't make this shit up

>>9089016
"Lyrics", implying popular music, unless you count lyric poetry or trad folk
>>9089023
Nobody said that, cuck. Read a book.

>>9089024
>cuck
>read a book

ONCE AGAIN
Not an argument

>>9088993
What is its simplistic entry level disillusionment?

>>9089023
No, are you fucking illiterate?

'muh logic and raisons and objective truths reeee do what i ssay or ill sink your island!' is Platonism.

>>9089024
Literally post any work of poetry you find valuable.

>>9089032
>>9089032
Just please stop. You cab jump through add many mental obstacles as your want toy convince yourself your opinion is anything but surface level shitposting with no real knowledge our experience in the topic you are shitting on

>>9089042
wah u dont get this black guy because your fucking white male

>>9089038
Recently, I've been reading Sappho, Villon, Rimbaud, and Joyce's poetry

>>9089031
Muh oppression and the "oh why is the world so cruel and unfair". I think blacks being opressed by white men and themselves is pretty obvious to someone with a brain

>>9089045
What the fuck, how do you guys function with that level of stupidity? What a low blow strawman or has nothing to do with black our white, it's music if you know nothing about the genre than don't talk about it
>>9089048
>yea since it's a problem many people know about and experience music about it is dumb haha

>>9089047
No I said post a work, not the 5 poets you just saw in a thread.

>>9089048
>Truth must be obscure to be profound
Gettaloadofthisguy

>>9089059
I never said its dumb, but in my eyes it doesnt hold nearly as much value as it does in yours

>>9089059
everybody i dont like is dumb
>>9089067
It's not truth, it's reddit moralizing.

>>9089073
A truth is a truth regardless of what board it has become fashionable on.

>>9089073
They are when they just insult without providing any form of argument or knowledge. Not one person have criticized rap with anything other than a shallow insult

>>9089067
Wrong implication, new friend. I never devalued its message, i just find it humorous that such an obvious "truth", rather fact, is known only when a pseud rapper cloaks it in metaphors and seeming nonsensity

>>9089079
Not at all.
>>9089084
Arguments are good because platonism has infected my mind

>>9089089
Kendricks song was nothing new, it's been a common rap topic for decades, who said they never knew about it until they heard that song?
>>9089096
>I name drop philosophies for my argument
Yea man you are so smart because you are above platonic arguments right? Go use that logic in a real discussion and watch the world laugh at your face

Impression of this thread: fucking americans who cant have a healthy discourse and only compete to win a fucking argument. Kys, you plebeians

>>9089105
Exactly, it was nothing new, thank you.

>>9089105
>name drop
Platonism does not necessarily have anything to do with Plato.
>REEL DISCUSSION
I don't care about anal autistics.
>>9089114
I'm not American.

>healthy discourse
yeah bro have some healthy dialogue narrative interfaith dialogue man racial gender dialogue man

>>9089114
How can you have a discourse when the other side just insults the topic add acts as if that is sufficient?

>>9083556
2pac is awesome

>>9089124
Why would I do anything else? You have no rule over me.

>>9089122
>platonism has nothing to do with plato
Hahaahaahah what the fuck , I thought this board is at least a little bit better than the rest, I thought wrong.
>anal autistics
ONCE AGAIN:
NOT AN ARGUMENT. Explain your distaste for rap with something of actual substance please
>>9089134
I think he's the most overrated rapper. The "poetry" he's known for is pretty average desu, and that is his strength. When it comes to flow and general musical ability it's not even close to other artists. He's only so well revered because of his pop culture status
>>9089143
I never said you have to, but don't expect anyone to take your shitposting seriously

>>9089089
>Seeming nonsensity
Where was that? I found every lyric straight forward. I think you are simply made uncomfortable by vernacular you are unfamiliar with.

>>9089151
>Arguments are good because i said so

>>9089151
see: >>9088995
Oh wait, you can't because you're 14 and don't know a word of German.

>>9089158
Arguments are good when they are actual arguments not one liners and insults. How hard is that to understand? If you were discussing a musical genre irl and someone asks why you dont like it, you don't respond with "its shit"
>>9089161
>>9089161
Hahah I can't do this anymore. Yes I do not do not speak German, but I've read nietzsche like every other kid who passed their intro class

>>9089047
>>9089047
>>9089060
Guess this guy found his way back to /POL/

>>9089171
Then why don't you know what fucking Platonism is? Oh wait, you're 14, or at most read the introduction to something like Beyond Good and Evil (which is maybe 6 pages long.)

You still haven't explained why arguments are good.

>>9089180
Just fuck off, I'm tired of trying to explain an idea a child could understand, your projections and philosophical qustions to avoid an actual discussion which would reveal your lack of knowledge in rap is exhausting

>>9089151
2pac was dead at 25 and barely educated, sorry he doesn't fit your academia faggot mold of what you think art should be

>>9089180
Not anon but arguments are good because iron sharpens iron unfortunately this thread was just a /POL/ pretends to be smart episode.

>>9089198
>>9089203
>can't argue why arguments are good
>I can't even fucking read
Go back to burning coal.

>>9089199
What? I just think he is overrated. There are plenty of rappers who released music younger than 25 that is better than pacs in my opinion. My favorite rapper didn't even graduate high school

>>9089199
The dude went to academies and was well read. I also disagree with the other anon that said he was overrated, he wasn't.

>>9089207
No, I'm from California we use clean energy here bumpkin.

>>9089219
>california
That sure explains a lot.
>bumpkin
Said the coal burner.

>>9089207
>trying this hard
>doesn't realize even the loser anons on 4chan are laughing at him
>doesn't realize posing basic philosophical questions does not hide his lack of knowledge in rap

>>9089225
>philosophical questions
What? Are you fucking illiterate?

No one cares if you're an expert in burning coal you fucking teenager.

>>9089224
It's a great place BTFO outta Trump just yesterday. Gimme your state. You're not embarrassed are you?

>>9089234
I said earlier I'm not American you stupid fuck.
>It's a great place BTFO outta Trump just yesterday
haha trump sucks i love black people

>>9089231
Hahahaha he keeps going he just keeps going, I admire you anon I really do

>>9089239
So you're a leaf or an Aussie and you're totally embarrassed because you didn't offer it willingly

they're pretty good at exploiting poetic devices, but the actual substance of what they rap about is either stupid fun at best or cringe worthy pseudo intellectual opinions at worst.

>>9089241
>laughing is an argument
>arguments are good except when i have to make them

>>9089252
>Yea let's just ignore the 20 other posts I wrote


Why do I keep responding? your are too good anon. You walk that fine line between believable stupid and comically stupid, not an easy thing to do and I admire you fit it, I really do. You need to act or something

>>9089260
>these lyrics are good because black people!
>argument

>>9089288
>>9089288
>>9089288
>>9089288
>>9089288

Please stop embarrassing yourself

>>9089308
I'm not, I feel nothing. Get over yourself, Jose.

>>9088647
>>9089288
>>9088872
This

Ignoring the 14 year old raspie aspies getting mad on the internet,

>>9089248
I agree that it's hard to find but I do think if there are artists who have actual intelectual substance. Here are two that came to mind w/ lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7m63nPvsQ
https://genius.com/Black-star-thieves-in-the-night-lyrics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FcDXL5Aw0o
https://genius.com/Earl-sweatshirt-hive-lyrics

Curious what your opinion is

>>9089318
>14 year old raspie aspie
>posts trash for 14-year-olds
Wouldn't even consider a girl that age into (c)rap.

>>9089317
>Hahaha I base my musical opinions on 4chan one liners
>>9089318
Mos def is really great. I love "black on both sides" because of the energy he gives the lyrics like on "hip hop"

>>9089340
>I called his music trash do not explain why I am truly an intellectual

>>9089356
Because it's not even music. Stop circle-jerking with your buddy.

>>9089341
And on top of that you can read the lyrics without the beat or his delivery and they still stand up. He is in a category of his own.

Maybe not as intellectual but I think there is a lot of depth to Atmosphere, Ab Soul, Danny Brown and other smaller but newish names. It's not revolutionary insight but that doesn't exclude it from being literature right? At least that's my thinking.

>>9089340
>>9089358
In this moment, are you euphoric?

>>9089379
Music isn't literature you fucking pseud.

There is no depth to your garbage.
>>9089384
I'm not the one listening to conscious hip hop.

Music is my boyfriend.

>>9089358
I feel bad for you if you think this.

Kendrick Lamar, Danny Brown, Nas cmon rap has so much variety to generalize it is stupid

>>9089392
Yeah totally. Beowulf, The Iliad/Odyssey and the Canterbury Tales are nothing compared to what you deem worthy oh enlightened sir

>>9089422
No variety there.

>i feel bad for u if i rnt enligthened this is REEL INTELEXUAL MUZIK
>>9089423
Wow did you just list off your high school readings list?

>>9089422
Recent Danny Brown has blown me away. The level of emotional depth and excruciatingly personal accounts of suffering he reveals is almost Ironic in that it sounds like bragging/exaggerating which is an old cliche in hip hop but it's actually honest and raw

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Wow. Music is too complex of a art for people who look at words for a living.
I guess that's to be expected.

>>9089437
pathetic
>>9089445
Agree, I really like danny brown. You could be headbanging to the music but once you really listen to it it's pretty sad

>>9089468
>pathetic
For not being 14 and obsessed with terrible music?

>>9089477
You got me howling son! I'm glad you won't quit posting

>>9089483
So you admit you're 14?

>>9089503
I'm not the guy you were talking to.

>>9089477
>>9089503
The 14 year old insult was against you... Are you really that butthurt that you are just using the "I know you are but what am I" tactic? Aren't you embarrassed by the fact you call people pseudo-intellectuals but having nothing to contribute? Can you not see how stupid you are?

>>9089468
I honestly think he is gonna die soon. He says he is suicidal every album and does so much fucking drugs. It's sad but at least he is putting out great work while he is still here

>>9089437
wow you're edgy. you're the one who claimed rap isn't music

>>9089519
You speak and behave exactly like one. Go do your homework you lazy fuck.

>>9083556
Exhibitionist performer and pretenders seem to be spastic people who can't communicate; only repeat the same "stupid" over and over, verse by per-verse.

>>9089526
You are going to continue through life surrounded by people who are more personally fulfilled, more financially successful, with better social circles and happier lives than you. You will continue to respond with anger like you are now, telling yourself you don't want their lives anyway and blaming your failures on the world. I'll tell you what no one else has the balls to tell you, it's just who you are, it's your fault and you will keep digging the pit deeper and deeper till you are truly and completely alone. Grow the fuck up.

But yeah Illmatic is literature

>>9089609
>projecting this hard
wow so fucking enlightened
>Illmatic is literature
Nope. Trash for 14-year-olds.

>>9089622
>projecting this hard

you've claimed you have to be 14 to like rap in almost every post of yours

>>9089318
>talib kweli
>intellectual substance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nXUOixv3hc

>>9089540
(You)

>>9089694
so true
>>9089696
Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it ins't a well thought out and interesting argument. Are you really such a weeb that this video felt like a personal affront to you? Do the opinions of this rapper trigger your delicate gentle-sir sensibilities?

>>9089694
Yes, because you are 14.

>>9089759
>So true
Stop circle-jerking yourself.

I don't mind rap as an expressive medium, it can convey certain emotions in its own kinda unique way, usually aggression/anger/tribalism... That's why I actually think that the "best" rap is the thug/gangsta rap, which a lot of pseudo-intellectual types tend to hate.
But I can agree that a lot of those themes are indeed degenerate and anti-social. It's a tricky situation.

Musically it's not worse than other kinds of popular music, especially electronic dance music. You can scoff at the simple repetitive beats/patterns, but that stuff works on some level, we can't help it.

But lyrically, I don't know man. I don't think I'd ever want to sit down and _read_ rap lyrics.
There are exceptions, but in 20+ years of listening to rap I can only think of one group/guy that made interesting lyrics that I'd read or think about and he's not American and barely even considered rap.

>>9088814
>Kendrick Lamar
KL is just exploiting a movement that ironically white young adults think is powerful and deep.

The problem with some rappers (and many composers) is the lack of self awareness; I think it is important to have an identity in order to understand what surrounds you, and once you finally do it, you can start writing meaningful stuff.

The music industry doesn't really let you do that, especially if you're top of the charts, as they literally force you to switch themes over and over again.

I think GZA is one of the few exceptions when it comes to rap, as he certainly has mantained and developed his views throughout his career.

>>9091486
GZA is as terrible as the rest.
hurr ur truth and my truth

>>9091490
He could've benefited from a higher education, but his wordplay and metaphorical content is similar to Bob Dylan.

>>9089318
talib kweli is literally WE WUZ

>>9089422
The differences between them are trivial
>>9089445
He worships weakness and """depression"""

>>9091486
How is he just exploiting a movement? Tpab dropped b4 the st.louis riots and BLM was a hashtag. If anything he inspired all that reaction. Alright became the rallying song of the protests that summer and Kendrick is that perfect bridge that kept outrage over the trayvon case alive long enough to fuel the outrage in favor of a much less sympathetic actor.

>>9089696
You just proved Talib's point by linking THAT video.

Otherwise, >>9083648 should have been the last post in the thread.

>>9091557
Basically, he's profiting off of racial tribalism and political illiteracy. Good to know.

>>9083556
I think /mu/ can appreciate the views shared by some rappers through their lyrics but I feel the rappers people could centrate on itt are the wrong ones.


AB-Soul's Control System and more importantly his Do What Thou Wilt

Kendrick's To Pimp, section .80 and OD

ATCQ's We got it from here...

Denzel Curry's N64

Underachiever's Indigoism and Evermore

I might be overlooking some but there are some rappers that actually have interesting topics worth discussing or at least show knowledge of topics/phenomena worth being aware or.

>>9091598
>I think /mu/
Meant /lit/, obviously.

fuck white cave men

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQjX1h8VuWA

>>9091584
But I don't think he's really profiting off of those things. He's profiting in spite of talking about them. It's actually very hard to turn a dollar on those subjects in hip hop nobody will give you research money for it. If those were profitable then every underground guy with an ax to grind would be rich or as Kendrick said Killa Mike would be platinum, but they aren't. I think Kendrick talks about these issues out of genuine interest and a desire to move the public as a whole on to a better place of understanding.

>>9086047
"only obligation is to prosper in my operations
money motivations stay gaudy ostentatious"

"see a landscape glittered with the blisters of potential
people letting ghosts govern most of their mental
the opposite adults your folks hoped you'd resemble.
doomed from the get like a goat in a temple"

"alone in my room, looking through the 32x telescope zoom, adjusting the focus of the moon
one should not assume the philosophy of david hume, as nothing more than a subjective conclusion"
"remote viewing the globe, what im shown runs my blood cold, my occipital lobe might explode"

>>9091604
No, he does it because white people love being told that they're oppressing blacks. Almost all rap focuses on "issues" that don't exist because rappers are retarded.

>>9091520
Bob Dylan is awful, beyond awful even.

>>9091610
>14-year-olds think this is good
DUDE SPOOKS LOL XDD LE SCIENCE XDD

>Ima pull up on a nigga bitch in my bitch whip
>SKREEEEEAAAWW
>I got 20 chains on me they gon chip just like some dip
>sheesh sheesh YA YA YA
>Nigga know they get the memo

Perhaps in its early forms, when it was a means of conveying the societal struggles of the negro in America, it had some merit, but it has since devolved into a brainless globalist tool used to dilute the world of "art" as it exists now and to perpetuate mindless lifestyles based on wealth and substance.

I confess, I do listen to it when I partake in such a lifestyle. That is, when I drink copious amounts of beer and liquor and attempt to have casual sex, but in times of sobriety I see it for what it is and understand its value (or lack thereof) as an art form.

While popular music before could claim some form of merit as an art; for example, the Beatles, which will be listened to and observed in centuries to come to study the fruits of the prosperity of the mid 20th century, modern hip-hop today is meant to be forgotten in a matter of months, never to be really considered again. This, coupled with the vapid "meme culture" that oversees the constant cycle of meaningless drivel that globalists are using to weaken the minds of the global populace, in the same way the world state gained control by weakening its constituents to an infantile state where they live from pleasure to pleasure, is what will define the worthlessness of our time.

>>9091616
The Beatles were terrible.

>>9091620
'nah'

>>9091620
The real redpill is realizing that only classical music has artistic merit and the rest is garbage.

>>9091616
This is the same reason why "depression" is being pushed.

They want a populace of drugged, lazy, self-pitying Internet addicts who consume art that validates their hatred of life and self-pity.

>>9091613
He really doesn't blame white people as a race though. He's thoughtful with his criticism of institutions and culture. If you feel like he's blaming you personally you're probably projecting your own guilt or some shit. I'm white and I don't feel guilty or like I have something to apologize for but I can still recognize that somebody like Kendrick has a positive message rising above a shitty situation that he personally didn't create. That is the main message of his two studio albums. The first studio album didn't have a single bar dedicated to analyzing why the ghetto exists just shared stories about it. The second album places blame not squarely on either race and songs like track 2 on untitled unmastered drip with sarcasm aimed directly y.g. and others who pimp out hood culture for white kids in what amounts to modern minstrelsy.

>>9091664
Fuck off back to lebbit, 'muh blax' isn't profound

>>9091686
>I lost the argument: the post
You could have just not replied.

>>9091644
You should listen to a.d.h.d. by Kendrick
>She said we all crack babies
>I said damn why you say that
>Because we born in the 80s and that a.d.h.d crazy.

>>9091693
>le arguments
Fuck off back to lebbit

>>9091490
>>9091615
Bait.

>>9091664
So he glorifies living in a "shitty situation" and blames "culture" (aka white people and their bigoted intolerance of criminals) for black people's problems.

And the Trayvon chimpouts were simply pathetic.

>>9091705
anything i dont like is le bait

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Can we not have music related threads on /lit/ anymore.
/lit/ have no idea about Hip Hop or music in general besides bare basic. They're the equivalent of old grandpas YouTube comments talking about how Hip Hop is killing the youth.

>>9091718
>DUDE SPOOKS LOL XDD LE SCIENCE XDD
bait.

>>9091726
Normie detected
>dude u just dont get it rap is actually deep haha

>>9091726
WAH YOUR JUST A FUCKING OLD WHITE DUDE JAJAJJAJAJA #CALEXIT

>>9091736
>>9091741
Lmao y'all mad over me explaining your ignorance of the most popular genre of music.

>>9091750
>defends pop garbage
>calls others ignorant
How does it feel to be a consumerist automaton?

>>9091716
He doesn't glorify it. He shows stories in a real and gritty way showing all of the negative consequences of acting as a criminal even if the situation you're born into isn't good. Again, you like the other anon, are simply projecting a shallow straw man onto his work, there isn't a single bar you could cite within the context of his albums to prove your analysis of his work.

>Thoughts on Hip Hop in general?
It's good fun
>Does /lit/ have some personal favorite rappers?
Waka Flocka Flame, Migos, Young Thug.
>How seriously does /lit/ take Hip Hop? Do you think it has (or already reached) it's fullest potential? Or will it never be taken seriously as literature?
It will always be about uneducated blacks and white hipsters.

>>9091613
you're insecure mate. kendrick makes amazing music TPAB was one of the best albums of any genre in the last 5 years.

if you can't handle anyone mentioning oppression because it makes you feel guilty idk what to tell you

>>9091771
Well yeah when you listen to the hip hop equivalent of y.a. or formula fiction. Expand your horizons.

>>9091750
>y'all
Confirmed for 14

I know more about hip hop than you, probably.

It's popular because it appeals to idiots.
>>9091778
All popular music is bad, ergo 'mub opression waaah' is bad too
>>9091781
All hip hop is bad, it is below YA.

>>9091791
>Knows more about hip hop
>Likes wocka Flocka
Choose one then choose a gun then kys.

>>9091806
Are you fucking illiterate? There are more than two people in the thread you fucking pre-adolescent.

>>9091781
I already listened Nas, the Wu Tang canon, ATCQ, Jedi Mind Tricks and shit years ago. It ain't literature. Pop music is about fun. Lil Uzi Vert is funnier that GZA.

>>9091859
Then why aren't you listening to people who carry their flames today like Kendrick, logic, Earl sweatshirt and the like? Lil Uzi vert is absolutely trash. He doesn't even consider himself a rapper

>>9091859
Rap isn't always pop music either some is made exclusively for the culture and artistic expression with little to no regard for public taste.

>>9091791
Bait.

>>9091889
Because they are boring and pseudodeep. Those two usually come together.
>>9091899
Example?

>>9091899
It is always popular music, by definition.
>>9091889
>why dont you listen to edgy reddit rap for preadolescent boys that just a decade ago would have been jugalos?
>>9091899
>some is made exclusively for the culture and artistic expression with little to no regard for public taste.
>culture
>art
By definition, these are for public tastes.

>>9091934
>Illmatic
A mix tape made before a label picked it up. One of few albums to go platinum with 0 radio singles.
>N.W.A. straight out of Compton
While I don't think this album is really literature (eh maybe I'm on the fence) it was also completely unplayable on the radio and like illmatic wasn't picked up by a major label until after it gained renown in the underground.
>Run the jewels
All the albums made on an independent and released for free. Clearly the motivation here was not pop success.
>There is a lot of other independent label artists who refuse to make single friendly tracks or easy to understand albums. The examples I gave above are works that weren't made for mass appeal but nonetheless achieved it. Like a Walt Whitman or Andy Warhol.

>>9091955
Art is by definition not for public appeal. It is to communicate ideas in the most quality and thought provoking ways and this doesn't always pay bills, hence the starving artist meme. There are authors who tell stories because they can't get them out of their head they NEED to write them and this is their motivation. Motives are what separates art from pop. Pop books are wrote to sell books pop music is written to sell music. In some ways a lot of classical music doesn't live up to this as it was written to appease a patron rather than the artistic goals of the composer.

>>9090358
>Musically it's not worse than other kinds of popular music

it's by far the worst genre musically next to country. almost every song is a 5 sec instrumental repeated 40 times

I've been out of the loop with rap and just because some poster(s) here mentioned it I downloaded Kendrick Lamar's TPAB out of curiosity.
Well, it sucks. Thematically it's the same old boring shit, a young uneducated black guy saying some predictable normie garbage. No real depth or insight into anything.
It's mediocre even by rap standards. Seriously, what the fuck. Is recommending this some kind of joke/meme or are you just doing it because musically it's a bit more "artsy/jazzy", so you think it will look good with backpackers?


>>9092286
I disagree. There's a ton of electronic music that is simpler than rap beats.
At the end of the day almost all popular music is simple and formulaic, though.

>>9091988
>Art is by definition not for public appeal
Wrong, stop speaking.
>In some ways a lot of classical music doesn't live up to this as it was written to appease a patron rather than the artistic goals of the composer.
t. fedoralord that doesn't know what he's talking about.

No you fucking idiot, stop redefining terms to fit your purpose.

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>>9083556

>>Thoughts on Hip Hop in general?
Utter trash.

>>Does /lit/ have some personal favourite rappers?
No.

>>How seriously does /lit/ take Hip Hop? Do you think it has (or already reached) it's fullest potential? Or will it never be taken seriously as literature?

It has no potential.