Are there any books that address the reality of love and sex

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>>8928961
Yes.

>>8928970

damn thats old

>>8928961

what are the realities

>>8928961
My diary, senpai

>One consequence of the sexual revolution is still under-appreciated. When sex moved from the sphere of marital duties to the sphere of pleasure and entertainment, orgasm was discovered. The discovery of orgasm changed the way women think. Traditionally, it was men who thought with their penis, whereas women thought mostly with their brain (and in the late 20s with their biological clock). With the invention of orgasm, women starting thinking with their vagina, and that is probably having wide-ranging consequences on society and the course of history.

>>8929009
is this from my twisted world?

>>8929026
Yes goy, only angry virgins think about the consequences of the sexual revolution.

For whom?

>>8931222
For you.

Houllebecq - Whatever

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Houellebecq's oeuvre

>>8929034

>Goy

Moron

>>8928961
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating

I found this to be a pretty great hatchet job on modern love, even if the author did it by mistake.

>>8931632
>vanity fair

>>8931638
Just read it. For every shitty celebrity piece they have some great articles on murders in monaco or gun smugglers or master party planners. Article linked is supposed to be a hip expose, but turns into a disgusting critique of modern love.

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>>8931236
>>8931254
The only correct answers.

>In a totally liberal sexual system certain people have a varied and exciting erotic life; others are reduced to masturbation and solitude. Economic liberalism is an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society. Sexual liberalism is likewise an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society. On the economic plane Raphael Tisserand belongs in the victors' camp; on the sexual plane in that of the vanquished. Certain people win on both levels; others lose on both. Businesses fight over certain young professionals; women fight over certain young men; men fight over certain young women; the trouble and strife are considerable.

>It's been fucked for a long time, since the beginning. You will never represent, Raphael, a young girl's erotic dream. It is necessary to come to terms with this; such things are not for you. In any case, it is already too late. The sexual failure that you have known since your adolescence and the frustration that has followed you since the age of thirteen has left in you an indelible mark. Supposing that that you could someday get women - something which I very frankly doubt - that will not be enough. Nothing will ever be enough. You will remain an orphan of those adolescent romances that you never knew. In you, the wound is already painful; it will become more and more so. An atrocious, bitterness, without remission will end up filling your heart.

>>8931632
Honestly, nothing in this article surprises me at all.

I don't get why people find it so surprising that sex would turn into a commodity as well, after everyone suddenly agreed that romance was just naive and childish.

The Lesser Bohemians by Eimear McBride

Most of Houellebecq

>>8931679
10/10 senpai. As soon as I saw the post i hoped someone would post these quotes. The worst thing is he's right. The sexual system is as cold and hard - if not even more so - than the financial system.

is divorce lawyer the job of the future?

>>8931679
shit
post more houoleleleuououlleleleouuubeck
[sry - I'm always struggling with spelling]

>>8928961
Brave New World

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>>8931832
>post more

Millennials are incapable of love and they don't have boomers to blame for this necessarily, but their stupid as fuck generation X parents who still can't fathom what the fuck they have done wrong in this.

>>8931852
I'm not incapable of love at all frankly.

It's just that whenever I actually fall for a woman, I get this nagging feeling that they will leave at the drop of a hat(because they actually can), the moment I commit a mistake, and I just run away.

Ugly people with shitty personalities can't get laid these days?

As it should be desu

>>8931858

Same here. I hear a lot say this is because of divorce. But mine aren't even divorced.
You don't need divorced parents to feel this. Just the general culture where every generation X couple blames boomers but divorces like a motherfucker creates this idea it's all worthless to engage in... that's enough to fear that outcome.

so.....who's the greatest, sexually frustrated character in literature. Which character becomes so absorbed by unrequited lust/love that they go off the deep end and immerse themselves in madness?


examples please.

the protagonist from hunger by knut hamsun springs to mind

>>8931879
Elliot Rodger. Minus the greatness obviously

>>8931871
Yeah we get it. You hate everyone at the bottom of the dominance-hierarchy. How about you say something original fagtron.

>>8931858
>I'm not incapable of love

I am. it took me while to realise. I never fall in love with a person....I fall in love with the idea of someone who has become besotted with an idealised version of myself that I perpetuate....... the person buying into these ideas is largely irrelevant.

maybe that's what love is.......

>>8931888
>character in literature

>>>/r9k/>


"reeeeeee......"

>>8931899
>he thinks it's an autobiography

pleb

>>8931896
>I fall in love with the idea of someone who has become besotted with an idealised version of myself that I perpetuate

Perhaps you should learn to be yourself more then. And I don't mean that flippantly.

If you can't be honest about who you are, nobody will fall in love with the real you.

>>8931896
What is love

>>8931896
>I fall in love with the idea of someone who has become besotted with an idealised version of myself that I perpetuate
That's what Lacan claims is the structure of man's love. Entirely narcissistic

>>8931938
I can see why he shouldn't be taken seriously then. Because for me, I literally idealize the women I fall in love with to the point where they almost represent Platonic forms, and I put them on pedestals.

It's really hard for me to dissociate love from some 18th century Romanticism.

>>8931945
>I literally idealize the women I fall in love with to the point where they almost represent Platonic forms, and I put them on pedestals.

That's what he said. It's man's (yours) ideal. Read his seminar on Courtly Love.

>>8931954
>That's what he said.

That's not what you said. You said Lacan said that men project an idealized version of themselves on to women, and fall in love with this image.

And that's not what I do. My infatuation is almost always pathologically altruistic.

>>8931945

Ever since I'm divorced ( I'm only 28 ) I'm unable to put them on pedestals.
I wish I could again, for even a brief moment, but now all I can is hate them initially or as soon as I get to know them a bit better.

Maybe it is a liberation of sort and I should go beyond it all even more and study mysticism. Maybe it's a good thing.

>>8931969
Man idealizes the woman, i.e. as an abstract ideal rather than her concrete empirical self (all love is mortifying). She's a screen upon which he projects his own idealized self-image and imagines himself desired by her (the ideal abstract object).

>>8931632

I have posted this twice as bait and got tonnes of replies each time on lit.

But yeah, my twisted world is the best book

>>8931972
Honestly, just keep living your life to the best of your ability.

Maybe you'll meet someone who makes you feel different some day.

>>8931976
Is this all men or just fuckups?

>>8932078
It's not all men, it's the masculine structure. Women could have it (rare).

>>8932078
I'd say its arguably unavoidable in its essential form, but the debilitating form is definitely a sign of immaturity.
Anima projection is a very real thing.

>>8931679
>You will remain an orphan of those adolescent romances that you never knew.

So what? Others remain orphans of those adolescent romances that they had, like Humbert Humbert.

>>8931858
It's true. Women now are trained to hate romance and love, and modern relationships are unfulfilling because the woman is always looking for you to act cold and distant instead of loving. To her your love is a responsibility, and at the first chance she'll go for Chad who is more attractive than you, has more money, and doesn't is more "independent"/unemotional.

>>8931871
It's actually really bad. Modern culture tells you that the highest goal is to have lots of sex, but for many it's just straight-up impossible. They spend their lives pathetically trying and failing and they still can't make it.

Ugly people in the past became great poets, painters, and musicians.
Ugly people now become NEETs because their society doesn't value them.

ITT: r9k immigrants

>>8931871
so what my excuse

>>8931871
I'm decent looking and I have a good personality

but women are getting more selective than ever nowadays

Love is when you want to sleep in the same bed with a woman and not just fuck her.

>>8932759
Have you asked many women out and been rejected many times? If not, you can't speaK.

>>8932783
I'll never understand how people can convince themselves that the extremely low probability of finding a partner for any amount of women you ask is healthy or good. Normies love to do the same thing over and over again in hopes of finding a match no matter how hopeless, like playing the lottery.

>>8932783
Yes, but define "many?"

I ask about 2 women out a year, and have done so for the last 5 years or so

Only 2 have said yes in that time, both only lasted about 2 weeks
>>8932796
this is pretty much true too. I know a guy who online dates like a maniac and has been on dates with 20-30 women, almost all of which have gone badly.

I think it's a really retarded idea to ask out women I don't actually know or like. I can't pretend to like them more than I do, and I find no merit in learning to do so

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How come most great artists in history are ugly?

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>>8931679
>You will remain an orphan of those adolescent romances that you never knew. In you, the wound is already painful; it will become more and more so. An atrocious, bitterness, without remission will end up filling your heart.
I DONT FUCKING NEED THOSE FEELS

>>8932847
> straight nose
> fierce eyes
> manly beard
You're wrong, buddy.

>>8929009
>>8929034
>the female orgasm was invented/discovered by the sexual revolution

kek It's pretty amazing what the angry virgins come up with in their basement when they've been devoid of female contact for so long.

>>8931679
that's the face of a wizard

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>>8931632
>“It seems like the girls don’t have any control over the situation, and it should not be like that at all,” Fallon says.

>>8932687

meh. people who cant participate in the culture of hookups are obviously alienated, and probably bitter, as having romance and all that is important for human, and these people definitely do give up. just because youre a loser in this new game doesnt mean you have to be pathetic in every part of your life; you have to adapt to this new situation and still find fulfillment, just like you have to find meaning and fulfillment even though you are going through an existential crisis.

it is a lot of work though.

>>8932886

kek it is pretty amazing when someone just lashes out at something they obviously are trigged by. btw that was written by scaruffi.

>>8931846
what a stupid book that was!
seriously, the author is matching very wellinto this place: his protagonists aöways moan about how crude the world is against them, but however everything is senseless,so the world is just stupid. but they do fucking nothing.just moaning about this and that and this as well.so much represents this board at times.

>>8932965
>2.29MB

feck off

>>8931679
Which work is this from? I've read The Elementary Particles and the message is quite similar.

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>>8931679
fuck

>>8931972
what kinda mysticism are you studying?

>>8932823
>>8932796
Was just trying to help. I personally found that I had the same view of the world that you both do until I actually asked out some women. For me atleast, that view turned out to be innacurate. Out of the 5 times I have, 4 have ended in relationships. Maybe I'm just lucky though. I take care of my mind, I go to the gym, and I keep A well-fitting wardrobe, so that may have something to do with it.

My point was to step into reality and try before you take the words of dejected strangers on the Internet as reality, because for me, the real world was entirely different than the world that others had concocted in my mind.

>>8928961
>""""""the reality of love and sex""""""" in the 21st century
>implying its any different than it was in any other century

This was a dead giveaway of your robot status. Fuck off back to >>>/r9k/ and stay there, youre giving me the 'tism.

>>8933145
>thinking gender and sexual dynamics haven't changed
You're deluded

>>8933059
Whatever.

>>8933145
>t. mental midget

>>8933145
>>8933113
Fucking normies, kys

>>8932687
prostitution was also much more widely available and socially acceptable, not to mention legal, at many points in history. I'm sure for a lot of those guys virginity felt more like a choice than something that was forced upon them. Also there were more people who could justify their celibacy with religion--neckbeard atheists don't even have that consolation.


No one can pretend that things were easier for men before women's liberation, misogynist or not.

Frankly, I think the only hope is sexbots and .

As for recommendations, here's a cringetastic proto-/r9k/ musical called "Shelter the Homely." The music was never recorded but there's horribly arranged sheet music/Sibelius files. I'll post some of it if anyone actually wants it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5RDM4kE8kq5V0Y2R1dpLXk2U0U/view

>>8933262
I knew a turkish kid whose dad hired a prostitute for him as a rite of passage. He said the sex was terrible though and he had to jerk himself off in the sink.

>>8931858
its so tiring. like a dick-measuring contest with a girl.

have to carefully calculate how invested each of us is and then make sure her investement is bigger than mine or she will leave the moment she senses i have more investment than she does.

stupid AF makes me just wanna jack off desu

>>8931976
difference between being in love with someone and loving someone. the latter is active work.

Being a virgin is more shameful than being a criminal.

>>8933360
Rape someone then you whiny pussy.

>>8933374
I'm not a virgin

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Rockclimbing bags of sand with archaeologists while drinking coffee and watching Netflix.

>>8933389
...

Life just sucks for some people and it will continue to suck until society changes.
Even if you imagine having all "the best stuff" (sex with hotties all day/all the cool toys/friends with smart people/performing as a rock star on a big stage/having a comfy family with kids...) at the end of the day none of that would make you happy. Some temporary excitement, sure, but you still get old, get sick and die for nothing.
And it's a whole bunch of tedious boring work from the moment you wake up to bedtime, even with the greatest job (or non-job). Boring annoying tedious shit all day long.

And people spend so much time and energy chasing all these distractions (sex would be n1), it's pathetic.
At least fight for some worthy cause, for fucks sake. Why are there no big movements/projects anymore? I mean there are some, but it's mostly islam/sandnigs nowadays, the West is either wageslaving zombies (who think fun consists of humping some one night stand after you spent the entire week working) or neets.

>>8931679
Could you post it in french, please?

>>8933402
>;) cat caught your tongue?

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>>8931679
What tripe. We're defined by what we're not? Who we weren't? This kind of whining is so typical of the modern man, the fact your life isn't perfect is some grievous injustice that you need to carry bitterness for all your life...what a joke.

To all you whiney virgin fags.

It's fucking easy to get girls, just fucking go for it. Be yourself and have a good time. If you stopped having girls for no reason you'd get pussy fucking easy. It's so easy to get laid, you fags don't realise.

>>8933424
Hating*

>>8933424
if your standards are low-ish, sure

>>8933441
Mate I get 9-10s fairly easy. Just message them on tinder and you have them just like that.

It's just confidence and being yourself. You guys just don't understand how easy it is.

>>8933424
>Be yourself
Be more subtle next time

>>8933450
>on tinder
so your standards are low-ish

>>8933450
tried tinder, literally 0 matches

>>8933428
>>8933441
>>8933469
>>8933479

/pol9k/ is embarrassingly easy to bait

>>8933498
actually it would be considered obvious bait there. afraid to say you're talking to actual /lit/ here

>>8933498
i browse neither (actually i occasionally browse /pol/ but largely out of curiosity, i don't align with them ideologically)

just had zero luck with tinder

>>8933424
It can be easy, but it is not that trivial.

Sadly, you cannot be ugly, and you must have your shit together. Having your shit together involves, having social skills, knowing how to be funny, having something to talk about, proper hygiene, dressing ok, some money, your own place if possible, a job, etc. You know, being a well-rounded person as much as possible.

If you don't get to meet girls on your day-to-day life, download Tinder and lower your "standards" a bit. After you've talked for a little while (less than a week), ask her to meet for drinks. I don't need to explain you the rest.

If it's just sex that you want, and you are a virgin, there are good news for you: there are lots of university girls nowadays selling thier bodies for a little bit of cash. I'm not even talking about actual professional hookers, no, just deranged girls that want to feel desired, or "cool" or whatever, and want some easy money to buy extra clothes.

>2017
>falling for the hedonism meme

Wew lads.

>>8933521
I would say you can get away with having several categories be shit if you're amazing at one.

Though that goes just for hooking up and usually fails at long-term relationships where you do have to be well rounded.

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>>8933531
this

>>8933531
>tfw trying not to fall for the hedonism meme but it feels good to tell people that you haven't fallen for the hedonism meme

Love is SO bourgeois

>>8931803
It definitely isn't more so, and you can only believe this if you were raised provided for in the current economic system. I don't mean to come across as hostile, but sex and romance are, to some degree (especially from the perspective of a man) purely egalitarian: women rely less on visual stimuli than men, for example, and for the most part choose their mates based on healthy personality traits, unless the female herself is emotionally unstable. Thus, it requires very little effort compared to, say, someone from a poor economic background to go to college (especially in an economically liberal system, like America), especially a good one, and have the same workforce opportunities as someone born into the upper echelons of society.

In America the vision is a little skewed since part of success with women there depends on economic stability, but only part, and in much of Europe it's not uncommon to even see someone who is poor with a very pretty girl... at all.

/Pol/ echoes alot of your sentiment, that the world of financial success and wealth is not as cold as the new world of free sex. The world of free sex is definitely colder, without a doubt, than it was 40 years ago. But /pol/ is a breeding ground of maladjusted and unhealthy thinking, the perfect storm to be rejected by healthy individuals.

>>8933698
The only reason people are so constrained in the economic system is because the markets aren't free enough, desu. Financial success just requires hard work while romantic success requires you to win the lottery of birth as an attractive man.


Hypergamy makes it entirely unegalitarian as well.

>>8933706
Hypergamy is a meme in the sense that it concentrates sex to a few select people

Do you want to be a whore? Because its pretty fucking easy to just fuck hot sluts. They want dick and you want pussy. Not hard. And I'm a virgin who's perfectly comfortable admitting that. It's just the basic "just be yourself" meme. That's all there is to it. And you can put your dick in as many people as you want.

Do you want a relationship? THAT'S the hard part

>>8933706
>romantic success... attractive man.

This isn't true at all, women do not pick men based on physical characteristics to even a fraction of how often men do. Secondly, I agree that financial success requires hard work, but the amount varies by vastly from individual to individual than it does simply "winning the genetic lottery" on attractiveness and being able to attract women. To be happy, stable-minded and healthy are some of the most attractive traits to women who exhibit similar traits, more so I would think than money, in almost all western societies. If you take someone from a background where both parents make $32,000 a year and another person comes from a background where the parents make $10 million, the amount of work required for one to go to Harvard, make connections, land a job, etc. etc. are vastly different.

>>8933724

sorry, breh, but to have a contribution in this discussion you gotta at least get your dick wet.

>>8933724
girl detected

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>>8931919
Be yourself you say tortoise?

>>8933724
>dude having sex is easy but getting them to commit to you is hard
post tits

>>8933706
Also, you have never been to traditional societies. If you go to even Morocco, a fairly liberal muslim country for example, women are much more concentrated in the upper castes (not classes. by the way [and class mobility, what little exists, is unimaginably more difficult than in America]) while a vast majority of men make it to their mid-30s or even later as virgins. In fact, it's not uncommon at all.

I'm not arguing that the West and sexual liberalism are perfect, but the golden age you are reaching for is not where you think it is.

I read the OP as the goddess of love and sex and now plan to write an epic poem about aphrodite in the modern world forcing virginity onto unfortunate losers for various petty reasons.

>>8933756
Not a good parallel because Muslim societies have polygamy which fucks up the dynamics. Romance in the pre-sexual revolution West was god-tier and seemingly without the elaborate mind-games and paranoia of modern sexual liberalism.

>>8933773
Polygamy in Morocco is almost non-existent, and I can say very soundly it doesn't skew any of what I'm talking about to the trend you're describing.

I mean this sincerely, I really am curious: Where does this ideology come from, that sex or romance is harder to achieve in the West (or most of the world, for that matter) than economic power?

>>8933746
>>8933751
kek
Borderline /r9k/ here
The issue with relationships is that all women are whores, so that's what makes it the hard part

>>8933738
>implying that more than 2 people in this thread has ever kissed a woman

>>8933818
*that's what makes them hard
*have ever kissed a woman

What is WRONG with my English today?

>>8931632
I think that article just made me hate everyone

>>8933872
You masturbate alone to hand-drawn cartoons from Japan and yet it's young people hooking up that makes you hate people?

The best way to understand modern sexual dynamics is to understand the other half of the players in the game (I.e. women) and the best way to understand women is not to read the ranting of embittered nerds who can't escape their own subjectivity and the complicated projections of shame and rage that constitute their psyche. Instead, it's actually pretty easy to read books by women and about the female experience and get a general sense of what women are looking for in various life stages.

Once you figure out what causes attraction in various life stages, you can do some combination of a) acquiring attractive traits or b) fake it (pretty easy to do). You do not need to win the generic lottery (I'm a Manlet and I've fucked a lot of girls).

I know this sounds crazy, but women are people. Thinking of them as people, who have socially and biologically determined desires (much in the same way men are bound by their own social and biological desires), makes you realize that it's not a very hard game to play.

>>8932979
Hookup culture is a meme projected on to us by baby boomers and gen x who need pseudo think pieces to make their living. Millenials are as prudish as the gen before, if not more. The vast majority only have 3-8 partners. Gen y is estimated to be even more sex averse. The only difference is that some women are now having much more sex than ever before, the vast majority though are still only having some sex. Robots get pissed bc we are bombarded by sex at every turn thus skewing their image.

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>>8933917
>Millenials are as prudish as the gen before
>only have 3-8 partners

>>8933929
My mistake the number is 4 to 7, just looked it up. And yes as of now millennials are having less sex than even gen x. Google it. Or dont. Believing in spooks is a pretty comfy life I guess

>>8931679
well really, really fuck you too

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>>8933929
>>8933917

Studies, plz.

And I assume that if they're true, it's either under-reporting/false response, or the sides of the bell-curve are way more extreme these days but the bell is moderating. And if it is, I am completely unsure as to why and would love to know the reasoning.

>>8933917
>constant SEX SEX SEX messages in mass media
>Tinder and partying are huge
>most normals get wasted and fuck every weekend
>being a virgin is shameful and young men devote all their time to getting pussy
>hurr millenials are prudish

>>8933766
would read

>>8933952

That's way too many partners for someone to be considered prudish.

>>8933952
>>8934291

Also the reason millennials are having less sex is because the bottom 80% of males are retreating to video games and other entertainment while the top 20% is getting all the sex.

>>8931896
>>8931920
I want to know what love is

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>>8934376
>I want to know
>Can you show me?

1984.

>>8934216
>>8934241
>>8934291

Google it or don't. Idgaf, your minds are already made up. It's fucking pathological how retarded r9kpol makes you. All just cause your not having sex? Sad!

>>8934296
>bottom 80% of males are retreating to video games and other entertainment while the top 20% is getting all the sex.
this
>tfw 75% quality male
>so close, yet so far

>>8934296

Where do you get your numbers for that? Off the fact that only the most attractive males succeed on a looks based app that has a fixed user base? Gee I wonder why it works that way then....

>>8934889

Wew. Tell your grandfather that and watch him laugh in your face.

>>8933881
Yes

>>8933159

>Hurrah, I have some work!
>I have to translate some pretentious book written by some frenchie faggot with the last name no one can pronounce anyway.
>Well, work is work, i guess
>let's start with the title
> Hmmm... "Extension du domaine de la lutte", a lot of french words, sounds complicated
>How do I translate it...
>Ah, Whatever!

>>8932635
Underrated.

>>8932759
Those two sentences alone are reason enough to state with some certainty that you don't have good personality.

>>8928961
Someone from /lit/ will write this book. Mark my words.

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Disappointed that no one hasn't mentioned book of pook. I theorize that this is because anyone who reads and understands it leaves this site.

>>8934241
and you are going to hate the millennials for that? regardless, your post doesn't dispute the anon you replied to. his numbers are statistically proven. try again.

>>8933413
This desu.

>>8936601
Just-world fallacy
>>8937252
He didn't even cite a source, retard. How am I supposed to dispute an unsourced claim?

>>8933413
t. chad

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>>8933917
>the vast majority only have 3-8 partners