ok hol up why did satan and co. rebel against god in the first place?

Non serviam.

better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven

>>8331687
>>8331680
but that's it? are the working conditions in heaven so bad?

>>8331676
Because all Milton did was retread Prometheus Bound with Christian iconography

>>8331703
woooooaaaahh

>>8331676
"Iniquity was found in him."
Lucifer thought he could do better than God and convinced one-third of the angels of heaven to back him in trying to overtake the throne before Archangel Michael defeated him and kicked him and his angels out of heaven to Earth.

I believe the Islamic take is quite different.

>>8331680
Lucifer did not serve, he ruled.

>>8331687
there was no hell during any of this.

Satan's part of God's nature.

>>8331724
He ruled over God?

>>8331737

Satan is God's whimsical demonstration that indeed he can make a rock he himself cannot lift.

God knows that his omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience is not threatened by limit.

"God becomes as we are, that we may be as he is"

Mostly Satan is a divine joke which we've long taken a bit too seriously.

420

>>8331738
He was God's closest companion and a very special being, there wasn't a "hierarchy" so to speak. heaven was ruled by Lucifer, but everything was created by God. Heaven wasn't run like a business.

>>8331703
Milton didn't write Genesis.

>>8331775
you are literally talking out of your ass hole

>>8331676
pride

>>8331724
>>8331792
very bad

read it again

>>8331799
100% this, in islam. Not sure if it's the same in Christianity

>>8331676
If you're talking about Milton, he says that it was jealousy of the Son. Lucifer was fine with his high position in Heaven but once the Son is named by the Father to be king of all things Lucifer is so envious he gives birth to Sin and Death and then convinces a portion of the angels to take his perspective. Also seems like God's choice to create the world and create man in His image also set Satan off. Evidently, the Heavens pre-creation was a time of great innocence, as the fallen angels didn't seem to understand that the Father wasn't just the leader of heaven and that they had equal power to him. Even when they're in Hell they seem to think that God the Father and the Son are just stronger versions of the Angels.

>>8331676
Satan felt insulted because Christ was to be set above the angels (a position which would have been an increased glory to all), whereas he felt he deserved preeminence. so he rebelled against God's will in a fit of pride, used his magnificent powers of sophistry to convince the other angels that heaven was beneath their high deserts, and got what he wanted by being cast out of God's company. left to their own powers they found nothing but eternal torment, but their pride would not allow them to admit that they had erred—each still felt that they were too good to humble themselves, admit they were wrong, and ask forgiveness, so they never got forgiveness, and remained miserable forever.

>>8331799
is this true? the priest/teacher guy in A Portrait said it was one single moment of pride, but was that ever mentionned in the bible?

>>8331832
I assumed because of the picture in the OP that he was asking about Paradise Lost

>>8331827
Conversely, if you're talking about Christianity, there's no real answer. This is because the scriptures don't ever mention Satan as anything but an Angel in God's service. The trifecta of Genesis' Serpent, Satan, and Lucifer is a conflation caused by folktale and poor scholarship. The Christ, or at least the gospel writers, made this same mistake, so the church made some latter day stories about it but none of them really make sense. Then again the serpent doesn't make sense either but Genesis is very obviously an early myth reworked to fit the Hebrew nation.

>>8331839
yes I know about the Paradise Lost version, but the general consensus among catholics?
are they the same?

I'm actually reaing Paradis Lost right now, but I haven't read the bible yet, even though that probably isn't a very good idea.

>>8331855
And the Lucifer component is even worse, the result of bad translation and lost folk memory leading to a wild myth about a fallen angel. The only fallen angels in the Bible are those in Genesis but this happens long after humanity was expelled from the garden, and these angels had no leader, they just wanted some human poonanny.

>>8331856
>Paradise Lost
>Catholics

Milton was, literally (/literally/), violently anticatholic.

is there any mention of the fall in the bible? or is it found in some kind of extended universe text?

>>8331867
>yes I know about the Paradise Lost version, but the general consensus among catholics?

I asked this because of what the priest in A Portrait said, who is Catholic.
and I was wondering what the general consensus was among them was because of this guy's comment >>8331799
. I suppose it was a question that doesn't directly relate to the tread so sorry I guess.

>>8331724
>there was no hell during any of this.
Retard.

Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven is a direct quote from the epic.

>>8331901
quite certain this is bait, but there was no hell when lucifer still resided in heaven, only after.

they were just edgelords

>>8331676
he was an edgy contrarian

>>8331676
>trying to make logical sense of christianity
I know atheism is a meme on here, but there are good reasons for why people turn away from this stuff; it just doesn't make any sense. The idea of an omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omnipotent being by itself is so utterly riddled with inconsistencies when examining our own world; let alone the rest of christianity of the figure therein.

>>8331910
Imbecile.

“Is this the region, this the soil, the clime,”
Said then the lost Archangel, “this the seat
That we must change for Heav’n, this mournful gloom
For that celestial light? Be it so, since he
Who now is sov’reign can dispose and bid
What shall be right: farthest from him is best
Whom reason hath equaled, force hath made supreme
Above his equals. Farewell happy fields
Where joy for ever dwells: hail horrors, hail
Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
Receive thy new possessor: one who brings
A mind not to be changed by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heav’n of Hell, a Hell of Heav’n.
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less than he
Whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th’ Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav’n.

>>8331901
>literally a direct quote
>from a derivative work

>>8331936
2/10 replied to your first post

Can we make "ok hol up" a new fresh dank meme? pls
"what did X mean by this" and "wtf i hate X now" are already tiresome

>>8331945
>>>/tv/

>>8331955
ok hol up, what are you implying

>>8331945
>>>>/tv/

>>8331676
Ah. Wait, I was refuting a retard, and then I noticed your question is answered in the first page, OP:

Say first, for Heav’n hides nothing from thy view
Nor the deep tract of Hell, say first what cause
Moved our grand parents in that happy state,
Favored of Heav’n so highly, to fall off
From their Creator, and transgress his will
For one restraint, lords of the world besides?
Who first seduced them to that foul revolt?
Th’ infernal serpent; he it was, whose guile
Stirred up with envy and revenge, deceived
The mother of mankind, what time his pride
Had cast him out from Heav’n, with all his host
Of rebel angels, by whose aid aspiring
To set himself in glory above his peers,
He trusted to have equaled the Most High,
If he opposed; and with ambitious aim
Against the throne and monarchy of God
Raised impious war in Heav’n and battle proud
With vain attempt. Him the Almighty Power
Hurled headlong flaming from th’ ethereal sky
With hideous ruin and combustion down
To bottomless perdition, there to dwell
In adamantine chains and penal fire,
Who durst defy th’ Omnipotent to arms.

So, Satan was stirred up with envy and revenge, and he seduced the others.

>>8331856
>When, by an act of his own free will, he rejected the truth that he knew about God, Satan became the cosmic "liar and the father of lies" (Jn 8:44). For this reason, he lives in radical and irreversible denial of God and seeks to impose on creation--on the other beings created in the image of God and in particular on people--his own tragic "lie about the good" that is God.

Catholic theology doesn't suggest a why; we only know what Satan did. Milton tried to look into the mind of Satan; his account is fascinating, and makes for high poetry. But we only really know what Satan is, not so much why he chose to be so.

That's my guess, don't take it for an authoritative answer.

>>8331676
Money

>>8332077
no

>>8331676
Because "Satan" and "The Devil" is a meme that arose after centuries of culture, like the concepts of "The Rapture", or "Purgatory".
They're not really in the Bible.

More literal translations of the original Hebrew texts are "adversary", often referring to competing tribes or their religious figures. No consistent singular entity, though some minor malicious spirits akin to 'pagan' spiritualism mixed with attributing outcomes of events with competing tribes to the other tribe's gods. This leads to hilarious passages like describing how GOD got his ass kicked by warriors with better metallurgy.

TL;DR
Fanfiction lumped a mess into a single cohesive character.

>>8331798
Huh, no, the first sentence will blow your mind IF YOU LET IT

>>8331883
book of enoch talks about it a bit. it's part of the coptic bible's old testament.

>>8331798

At least the farts are interesting.

>>8333010
The book of Enoch is a book made by the ungodly, for the ungodly. If anyone here is any form of Christian, then I advise you to stay away from this book. There's a reason the most notorious satanists love reading this.

>lucifer commanded one third of angels
>god burnt one third of earth

what.. what does it mean

>>8332097
I always thought it was weird that "THE ONE TRUE GOD" had to put in a commandment that forbade worshipping other gods. It's like he's admitting that there are others, yet all of the Abrahamic religions state that there's only one. Whether he be God, Allah or Yahweh...

>>8333998
I'll look it up. Thanks anon...

>>8332097
Purgatory is in the bible tho