/HRTGen/ HRT General 042: Do your blood tests edition

File: images (9).jpg (20KB, 456x322px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 456x322px

According to the chart, Cypro is meant to be taken at night, due to sedative effects, right? But how strong is this?

I have college classes during the night (7pm to 11pm) and i'm scared cypro will impact in my studies... You can't do maths while asleep. What should i do?


Also about E, i've found only 1mg sublingual E here while valerate (the one i should swallow) is sold as 2mg pills and way cheaper. Can i use sublingual E for a month then switch to oral pills without problems? Is there any differences besides it fucking up my liver?

Currently taking 4mg of estrofem, 1 month on wo'mones. Gonna swap to 6mg of progy soon because of price and availability. What do I need to do to do this swap successfully?

File: dc9b0ba6a9c59bba228799920478cead00085294_hq.gif (121KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 500x281px

which brand of finasteride is the best on ihp?

>>8622104
Just take cypro after your classes if you're really worried. It has a long half-life so it doesn't matter much when you take it.
Yes you can switch forms of E but it helps if you can get blood tests to know how your body differs in terms of absorption between the forms. Also estradiol shouldn't be doing anything to your liver. Estradiol valerate, cypionate, etc are metabolized by esterases in your stomach and blood, not the liver (although esterases are present in the liver)

>>8622104
>You can't do maths while alseep.
Switch to gender studies.

>>8622130
Drug brands don't matter. A finasteride tablet is a finasteride tablet.

>>8622298
this. Generics undergo the same process of approval and the same regulations as brand name drugs. They're rated to USP grade so regardless of how it's made they're identical purities.

I've been taking hrt for about 3 months now. I heard from a friend that taking progesterone will be useful in helping grow bigger/better shaped breasts.

Does anyone know anything about that? If so, how much should I take?

Is there any indication that you're taking cypro in blood tests as opposed to spiro.

Would there be amy side effects if I took Progynova and Estrofem (sublingual) together?

>>8622312
If you're on cypro you shouldn't need prog since cypro is progestogenic

>>8622322
No, not on any standard tests anyway. They'll alter certain hormone levels differently though. Cypro will affect LH and FSH significantly more than spiro will.
But for the most part, no it's not easily noticeable.

>>8622332
Is the LH and FSH difference only affected if you're only on a blocker and not at female levels, regarding the changes to bone structure. Let's say I take spiro and i'm at female levels, would that be the same if I was on cypro and at female levels or will there still be some differences despite the levels being the same?

>>8622336
Well cypro directly affects LH and FSH due to its effects on leydig cells in your testes. Spiro only affects testosterone way way upstream in steroidogenesis at your adrenal glands and has no actions in your testes.
LH and FSH are tied to HGH.
From my understanding of it the reason Lupron and other GnRH agonists are given to early transitioners is due to their effect on growth hormones which play a huge huge part in skeletal structure up until your mid-20s.

If you were to give say spiro or bica to an early transitioner rather than Lupron or cypro they'd most likely still end up with mostly a masculinized skeletal structure as their HGH levels would be similar to males.

>>8622356
And what would be considered an early transitioner? I'm 18, I started at around the last months of me being 17. If what you're saying is true, and I do believe you since I saw the studies that I assume you posted then this should overall effect hip growth shouldn't it?

>>8622332
>>8622312
not on cypro, bica actually

>>8622367
Your skeletal structure undergoes bone modelling up until around 22-24 years old so you should generally avoid spiro and bica until then.
And yeah it should affect hip growth, it will affect your entire skeletal structure, face, hips, shoulders, hands, feet, etc.

>>8622356
>If you were to give say spiro or bica to an early transitioner rather than Lupron or cypro they'd most likely still end up with mostly a masculinized skeletal structure as their HGH levels would be similar to males.
oh crap is this true?

>>8622383
Yes
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2939014
FSH and LH appear to be closely linked to HGH. If you increase FSH it increase HGH
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3004913

>>8622356
Would there be any difference between Lupron and Cypro for early transitioners? Seems like they only give Lupron for early transitioners.

>>8622394
Lupron is supposed to be better but cypro mimics its actions pretty closely.
GnRH agonists reduce FSH and LH at the pituitary gland (at least if you use a large enough dosage, in low dosages GnRH actually increase FSH, LH, and HGH which is why they can cause people to grow taller and can bulk up your skeletal structure due to certain medical conditions that result in delayed puberty and things like that) whereas cypro reduces FSH and LH via the testicles. They have almost identical effects in the end though due to feedback mechanisms.

File: 20b978f3-0f9b-49f1-9d59-906a287fb8e5.jpg (30KB, 498x456px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 498x456px

does progesterone do anything

>>8622356
If you were to take a small dose of cypro along side your spiro, let's say 100mg spiro and 12.5mg cypro. Would this be an alright thing to do?

>>8622426
Why not just ditch spiro and use cypro? Spiro isn't even technically a real antiandrogen, it's a diuretic that has antiandrogenic effects as a side effect.

>>8622434
yeah spiro is pretty gimpy, i'm definitely ditching it. Just wish that it could be prescribed in the US it'd be a lot easier.

>>8622407
Oh I see. If someone was say 16-18+, would there be a sizable impact in taking cypro instead of bica/Spiro? And would it be beneficial to not lower the dose of cypro over time in this case so as to continue keeping your FSH/LH levels down?

>>8622466
You should be fine lowering the dosage as cypro causes some irreversible changes to your testicles. Once things are atrophied there is not much chance they will come back.

I'm not sure what the extent of the impact would be but HGH definitely causes a large amount of skeletal changes. They use low dosage Lupron in certain kids that have developmental disorders to raise HGH and cause them to grow taller and it causes their skeletal structure to expand even in females. So having female range T and E definitely does not hinder skeletal structure changes.

For mtf's you'd want to nuke your FSH and LH to below female range to reduce HGH, and you'd want female range T and E as estrogen also causes early bone fusion to stop you from growing taller. Whether spiro and bica can do that I'm not sure, I know for sure cypro can though. I've heard spiro and bica leave FSH and LH relatively unchanged though.

File: IMG_20170711_132350.jpg (87KB, 595x899px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 595x899px

>>8622104
I always take mine first thing in the morning lol.

>>8622499
wait, if HGH causes skeletal changes, and I wanted to grow out my hips (19 now) as much as possible, wouldn't I want higher HGH?

>>8622521
You'd end up growing taller and would get larger hands and feet though.
You can't specifically target certain bones. I think it's a safer bet to try and reduce it, that is what is done with all early transitioners.

>>8622356
>Well cypro directly affects LH and FSH due to its effects on leydig cells in your testes. Spiro only affects testosterone way way upstream in steroidogenesis at your adrenal glands and has no actions in your testes.

Yeah, but all of the things you just said apply to estrogen too. Sure, you're castrating yourself faster, but I don't know if you're feminizing yourself any quicker.

>>8622534
but wouldn't having female levels of T and E make your skeleton grow in a female way more than a male way? What if you already finished growing taller before you started hrt?

>>8622356
Now i'm not saying cypro isn't the superior AA because obviously it is. But there is no evidence that bone structure is effected, We would have to have an early transitioner who's been on spiro compare with one who's been on cypro. Then again it won't be accurate because ymmv, etc.. Maybe i'm just saying this as a way to cope with the face that i've been gimping myself. But I'd like more evidence for closure.

>>8622560
Yeah it's tough to say. It's not like cypro removes HGH though, it simply reduces it same as what flooding your body with Lupron would do in early transitioners. You will still have growth hormones in you though.

The thing is HGH speeds up bone remodelling but so does estrogen. But in kids that get growth hormone treatments they end up growing quite tall and have expanded skeletal features regardless of their sex.
So I think it's safer to let estrogen alone be the controlling factor in bone modelling and bone remodelling rather than growth hormone.

A while ago there was a detransitioner that completed his medical degree that was discussing growth hormone in early transitioners on here and was mentioning that unless you stop HGH you will end up with a more masculinized skeletal structure but he didn't expand on it much.

File: 20139709_656095441268107_8030564370298870737_n.jpg (71KB, 569x960px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 569x960px

Is it advised to start cypro at 25mg? I'm 18, 5'7 and 160lbs if it matters

>>8622638
I'm 18 5'6" 116, and 25mg did it for me.

>>8622567
Growth hormone plays a huge part in bone growth, bone modelling, and bone remodelling as well as overall bone turnover
https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/19/1/55/2530792/Growth-Hormone-and-Bone

It is not sex-specific though. It will expand skeletal features the same in both men and women. Girls on HGH treatments end up with gigantic feet and hands for example.
Female athletes occasionally abuse HGH just like testosterone to become bulkier and stronger.

>>8622623
I can see how that would be true for early early transitioners, but if you start at 19 or so and you have already finished growing taller, you might want to increase HGH to increase your chances at growing hips perhaps.

I'm gonna buy Cypro but how do I do it? IHP shows that cyproterone acetate is discontinued but there's another thing. Do I buy that instead? A, I supposed to get it from another website?

>>8622681
At 19 your skeletal structure is not yet done growing. You have until your mid-20s before bone modelling is complete and fusion begins finishing up.
I just think it's best to let estrogen be the dominant force. It's a sex specific hormone unlike HGH so at least to me I feel better knowing that something specifically female is the dominant force rather than HGH which has identical effects in men and women.

Umm, my Estrofem states that it is film-coated on the box. Would it have any negative effects if I took it sublingually or is this the one everyone is taking?

>>8622729
ok then, I guess I'll switch from bica to cypro then.
Should I take progesterone too?

>>8622815
cypro is already progestogenic, no need for prog

I'm currently on 4mg estradiol hemihydrate per day, taken sublingually.

I'm 6'1 and 140lb, should I increase that dose to 6mg?

I'm about 2.5wks in atm and am starting to get sore breasts but I'm wondering if I should increase my dose for faster results.

Currently also on 200mg spironolactone per day,

I take 100 spiro / 2 estrogen twice daily at 8am and 8pm.

File: 1492907338055.jpg (539KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

539KB, 1280x720px

Should I self-med or go legit?
I'm in the US. I have mediocre insurance and I've been seeing a therapist who's covered but isn't specialized in gender issues, so I'm not sure if I can get a letter from her. Also, I went to her to help through questioning so she's mostly seen me at my most confused and uncertain. I know of some local gender therapists (though I'd have to investigate to see if any would help me along quickly) but I don't have a lot of money to spare for sessions and meds; I'm just pulling 30 hours a week at a pizza place while I help my mom with bills and go through Uni, and I also want to start laser on my face when I can.

>>8623584
Self medding is the only way to get cypro in the US so it does have some advantages

>>8623605
Jesus does the US hate trannies.

>>8623605
Is cypro generally better?

>>8623719
Mixed bag. More selective for androgen blocking, but potential liver risks. Anecdotally it has more effect on shutting down the T factory

>>8623719
Yes. It's the only AA besides GnRH agonists that has direct actions in your testes.
It quickly atrophies them and you can reduce dosages of cypro very quickly so it has barely any side effects and is probably the healthiest choice.

>>8623729
>>8623730
who do i trust

>>8623729
The liver risks only occur at 100mg+
For trans stuff you're at most going to use 50mg and you'll quickly reduce to 12.5mg after about a year. Eventually you can stop using it once your testes have atrophied enough

>>8623740
Cypro is cheaper and safer in the long run. It's usually the first choice for AAs outside the US

>>8623605
>>8623729
>>8623730
>>8623741
So is self medding cheaper, and is it safe?
How does one go about blood tests?

>>8623752
You can go to any GP and just ask for tests. You can even straight up tell them you're self-medding if you want. You have doctor patient confidentiality

>>8623752
self medding is only safe with regular blood tests
cheaper, depends on your insurance

>>8623773
Does regular mean 3 months as the OP says?
As for my insurance, it's honestly a bit of a mess. The mental health portion is outsourced to a second company, which has very limited coverage. If I get a note from my therapist, is that something that would normally come from the same resource as paying therapy sessions, or physical illnesses?

>>8623789
You can get blood tests whenever you want.
Usually it's best to get them when you first start and do a full panel test. You'll want hormones plus pituirary, thyroid, and liver tests.
After that get them whenever you switch dosages and just from time to time. Every 3-6 months for hormones is fine.
Test your liver, pituitary gland, and thyroid at least once a year

so is there really a point in taking finasteride if I'm also taking cypro? i was taking it before hrt and am about to run out and i'm not sure if it's worth spending money to order more or not

>>8624504
If you're not balding then nah, if you are it can help.

>>8624514
well the thing is i'm not anymore but I was a bit when I started... the balding has definitely stopped and even reversed a little cause I caught it quick but idk if I need to keep it since shouldn't cypro effectively reduce dht more than when I was only taking finasteride?

Do IHP really want me to send a prescription?

>>8624519
yeah. If you're body isn't producing testosterone, it can't be converted to DHT in the first place.

Need some help, been taking cypro 50mg and estrofem 2mg for about 4 weeks and all of a sudden I've become very sick, I can't sleep, I'm nauseous, and have to pee a whole lot and take a terrible diarrhea every 30 minutes. Last night my legs started shaking uncontrollably and the inside of the skin on my arms felt really itchy. What am I doing wrong, should I stop hrt?

>>8625473
um yeah I'd stop

>>8624864
no

>>8625473
It would be advised to stop while you don't know what is this but ffs see a doctor you're not immune to other diseases just because you're trans.

File: part_1.png (352KB, 1047x1032px) Image search: [Google]

352KB, 1047x1032px

Alright, so, I just began my thirteenth week on estradiol patches this past Sunday night. These are the results from my last blood test for my last endocrinologist appointment. He says that I do not need testosterone blockers since my testosterone is already near normal female ranges. I have not received an orchiectomy since this was asked during a past thread of mine. The current changes I have experienced so far was sensitive nipples which seem larger at times and weight loss although I am not sure if this is related. How long should I start to see more drastic changes to my body and shouldn't the changes come more rapidly if my T lowered this quickly and my E raised this quickly?

I will post my results in two parts. The only test I didn't include was one for Vitamin D since my doctor said I have a deficiency. I feel worried that something is wrong.

File: part_2.png (882KB, 1800x1028px) Image search: [Google]

882KB, 1800x1028px

>>8626108
And here are the results for my testosterone levels.

>>8626111
>>8626108
Bump for answers.

I can't get on hormones yet. Are there any good naturally occurring AAs to is til I can? I've heard licorice tea touted as a possibility.

>>8626636
you can try purera mirifica

>>8626646
I'll see if I can find some. Thanks

So I finally got lab results.

I was on 3 x 2 mg of Progynova at the time. Now I am on 2 x 2mg of Estradiol Sandoz(hemihydrate). Which I take sublingual.
I had to drop my dose for my endocrinologist.
I also take 25mg of cyproterone.


Before my test it had been 12 hours since my last E dose of 2mg of the day before.


My results were this:

Testosterone: <0.5 nmol/L

Estradiol: 155 pmol/L

Now I heard estradiol was low, but I am not sure this is because of decay. Or my liver demolishing my estrogen in my blood.
It has had an effect though. When I started I reacted ridiculusly hard on E(2-3 days in: burning breast pain and sweating that ended by week 2)

Testosterone seems to be even low even for females.

I'm just kinda looking for info. I am taking my new pills in doses of 4 sublingual anyways. So I hope that does amend things a bit.

>>8626108
>>8626111
Just checking to see if anyone responded back to my posts here. Also, a bump so others can see the thread.

File: 1500759135611.jpg (133KB, 460x660px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 460x660px

I have a question about fat redistribution

Due to my mother genetics i have thicc legs and medium butt. However, my belly tends to get fat too. I'm 5'6 and like 156lbs.

How does fat redistribution work? Can i expect to get a more feminine belly on it or nah?

>>8622379
considering this and that I want to preserve my testes but also prevent masculinization, should I hold off on starting bica until I'm 23 or start to notice bulking up? I'm just turning 21, still a skinny twink but I want to remain androgynous going forward.

>>8626646
anyone have experience with this?
I'm doing everything I possibly can to lower T without pills.
so far I've cut all red meat from my diet, added more fish and soy, also peanuts for hair growth.. and I've been trying to get more protein and less carbs because I read that it can lower T. So far body odor is noticeably improved.

fish oil, flax seed and spearmint tea are the only things ive tried besides that. flax I stopped cause some people had reverse effects.

>>8626859
>considering this and that I want to preserve my testes but also prevent masculinization, should I hold off on starting bica until I'm 23 or start to notice bulking up? I'm just turning 21, still a skinny twink but I want to remain androgynous going forward.
If you're not willing to take cypro then none of that will apply to you anyway.
Obviously using cypro will give better feminization and prevent masculinization a lot more, but given that it's not an option for you it hardly matters anyway.

>>8626776
Really depends on how fit you are. Muscle tends to assist with making fat look more evenly distributed across the body.
Unfit girls can still be skinnyfat and have beer bellies
Once you're on HRT it's perfectly fine to do weight training.

>>8626108
Everyone experiences changes at a different pace. Your levels are perfectly fine. I'm pretty surprised how low your FSH and LH are without AAs actually, usually the only people that manage to nuke those are on cypro.

I don't think there's much you could do to speed it up, but you should add progesterone if you're not on it.

my lower back hurts like hell and my hips are sore and hurt even when i dont do anything

whats happening

>>8626646
that stuff is overpriced AF, and I while I was taking it, my prolactin levels went way up. I started lactating. Doc thought I had a tumor.

You're better off buying as much cypro as you can afford, and splitting the dose.

>>8627700
You can buy it in bulk off alibaba.
But yeah it is a little sketchy, it's not well researched. Phytoestrogens themselves have only really recently started getting researched.
I think it's best to use stuff like lignans and isoflavones in relatively low dosages. They're decent enough for preventing MPB but for trying to feminize I think people will be pretty dissapointed unless you know what you're doing.
Miroestrol in pueraria mirifica was extracted in past research and they found it had tons of horrible health effects and the research was abandoned because participants were vomiting like crazy and had diarrhoea.
Isoflavones and lignans are fairly safe and can help lower DHT and yeah you can megadose on them, it's been done in cancer research, but it's not something I recommend.

I'm pretty sure this is where I should post for advice on HRT stuff.

My doctor started me on 100mg Spiro last month, and is starting me on 2mg estradiol and 200mg Spiro next week.

She seems kind of absent-minded though, and is only having me go in for labwork next week to check electrolytes to make sure Spiro isn't fucking my kidneys.

I'm concerned because I don't want to end up a hon -- I'm insured for labs -- is there some way I could just walk in and ask for labs for estrogen/testosterone and monitor it myself?

>>8627622

I wish I had at least these reactions to HRT at least I'd feel something is happening but there's literally nothing reacting in my body sigh... it's almost a month... come on... hurry..

>>8628376
dont worry im 5 months in and just now its started to get rly kinda intense

i had some minor pains in months 2-4 but it was basically nothing

>>8628383
I started getting aches and pains in my hips a couple weeks into Spiro, rip.

>>8627066
I realize the effects of less invasive AA's will be a lot weaker, what I want to know is if there is any risk of causing increased masculinization. I will do anything I can if it will preserve fertility and not risk having the opposite effect that I'm hoping for.

>>8628397
If you use bica alone you'd grow like eunuchs. Eunuchs usually grow taller than both men and women. Plus I do believe bica causes FSH and LH to increase which would increase HGH which may potentially cause your bones to bulk up, but it's kind of unknown.
If you use E with bica you'd get the usual testicular atrophy and ED but you wouldn't need to worry much about masculinization

>>8628463
that's very helpful thanks.
I do worry about the bulking up, do eunuchs end up with bulky/tall bodies or just skinny and tall?
and I wonder how long before progynova would sterilize- assuming i was on bica so E would be the main cause for atrophy

>>8628577
>do eunuchs end up with bulky/tall bodies or just skinny and tall?

It depends on how much they eat and exercise.

>>8628577
Sterilization can reverse quite a bit actually in some aspect. If your testes atrophy into oblivion testosterone replacement can somewhat restore fertility but the atrophy is typically mostly permanent. If that situation occurs you may have enough sperm to do IVF even if your sperm is basically nuked and has low motility.
So realistically you could maybe go years, tough to say though. Typically it's sperm motility that goes first.

File: 16830916_1647180771964424_4326352688995758155_n.png (98KB, 264x263px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 264x263px

>>8621307
W-will Spironolactone or some other weak stuff make me a femboy/sissy/trap/twink?
I dont want to be a female
I just want to have a touch of female on my face like a kpop singer
I'm too scared of big tiddies and fucked up sex drive.

>>8622127
just stop taking estrofem when you start progy

>>8622331
They are metabolized differently, so the only side effect you will have is progy working your liver more than if you just took estrofem.

>>8622423
Yes, most competent endos will agree it is vital for breast growth. If you are not on Cypro (which is a progestin itself), you should be taking progesterone.

>>8622812
No, it is designed to work sublingualy. the film coating just gives it a nice sugary taste and makes the pill look blue. The coating dissolves in the saliva under your tongue and the pill will become white.

>>8623393
2.5 weeks is too early to start increasing, your body and brain are still trying to adjust to estrogen. Sore nips/breasts is extremely common early, it is likely your tissue preparing to form a breast bud. Wait until you are about 2 months before increasing your dose, and if you cant do blood tests look for symptoms of low estrogen such as fatigue, brittle nails and crying all the time etc, Give your body time to adjust to 4mg before you up your dose.

>>8626749
when you take sublingual you cant rely on blood tests for E levels as easily as you can on oral estrogen.Sublingual estrogen gives your levels a very high peak when you take your dose, and very low fall a few hours later. The usual trick is to take your dose oraly before your blood test, so that your level stays somewhat consistent. 4mg is a standard dose, you could probably safely up it to 6mg no problem, but your best bet is to go off of symptoms. If you feel fine and have good progress on 4mg it is not urgent to up your dose. If you have any negative symptoms, you could always try 6mg just to see how you feel.


>>8628363
You will want to tell your GP to give you tests for Testosterone, Estradiol, Prolactin,LH, FSH, ALT, AST, and Potasium. If your doc won't give you the blood test, you can get one online.

>>8629169
follow up
I've heard progesterone can intensify depression, and I've been dealing with severe depression lately. Is it a bad idea for me?

>>8627076
shouldn't you do weight training prior as well since its much easier to build muscle where you want while having male T

>>8629169
>am I fucked?
its still highly debated whether mtfs need it and how much it helps with breasts
maintaining some level of progesterone is supposedly good for your health overall
>depression
in women it's combination with low estrogen

Will applying estrogen gel to my boobs support breast growth or should I just rub it on my arms, because it doesn't matter?

>>8626646
I'm considering starting hormones, but I'm not ready to take the leap yet.

Would taking pueraria mirifica supplements have any effect on me at all?

>>8630179
It contains phytoestrogens so I'm assuming its effect is similar to a small dose of estrogen.

>>8630446
Some actually say it blocks T a bit, which is a weird claim to make.

It seems unlikely that such a supplement could do anything.
Still, maybe with higher doses it could give me something.

>>8630584
well estrogen inherently would block t to some extent so it kinda makes sense

>>8630614
True, but if estrogen blocked T well enough, peoole wouldn't be taking AAs.

>>8630636
of course not as well as AA's but T will still decrease (to some extent) not significantly. Of course being on estrogen alone isn't as effective.

>>8630584
Yes, high dose estrogen by itself will castrate. It's not as efficient as antiandrogens, but it will do the job.

>>8630640
The question is, how effective can it really be? What about pueraria?
Many people say it doesn't work.
>>8630642
How long would it take to castrate?

>>8630657
In prostate cancer patients 20-30 years ago where they used DES to nuke T levels down to castration point it took about 4-6mo.

>>8630681
What is that?

>>8630584
Phytoestrogens are endocrine disruptors.
The effects they have are close to SERMs but they also have a large amount of inhibitory action on enzymes throughout your body. They are antiandrogenic due to being 17B-HSD and 3B-HSD.

When dealing with xenoestrogens like phytoestrogens there isn't really any comparable pharmaceutical or biological hormone. They are in a class of their one. However there are synthetic isoflavones that resemble raloxifene but the further they move away from their base structure the less similar effects they have to phytoestrogens

>>8630971
3B-hsd inhibitors* i mean

>>8630971
soooo what does this mean if your mom ate like way too much soy while you were in the womb?

>>8630982
It's not really fully researched. In animals it messes up their development pretty good.
Most countries warn parents not to eat soy during pregnancy and not to feed kids soy. They're obviously xenoestrogens but they're not really carcinogenic like other xenoestrogens.
It's relatively harmless once fully grown since things like enzymes and receptors don't have linear response rates, they're sigmoidal. If you're at too low of a dose they just do nothing

>>8630971
Thanks. I'll make sure to do some research on what you just wrote.

So, what could somewhat large doses of a good pueraria supplement do that is noticable?
How well can they mimic hrt in your opinion?

>>8630999
>it messes up their development pretty good.

oh...

>Most countries warn parents not to eat soy during pregnancy

nowadays they do, 20 years ago when the effects weren't so clear I was being fed from the BPA bottle

>>8631011
It can only sort of mimic hrt. Plus pueraria mirifica is potentially unsafe. In the 50s they did a study on a miroestrol extract from PM in dosages of 1mg and 5mg/day and the study was abandoned due to participants experiencing uncontrollable vomitting and diarrhoea
Other phytoestrogens are safer but you need pretty high dosages plus they have short half-lives which makes it difficult to achieve much with them.

>>8631039
Maybe I should still try it before deciding should I take real hrt.
Small effects will help me realise if this is something I really want.
I probably do, but there are a lot of drawbacks.

will i notice hair regrowth on 100mg spiro, im already on finasteride and have barely noticed anything. cismale btw.

>>8623740
Cypro somehow being more harmful or dangerous than other drugs is just something american hons say to justify taking their shitty spiro.The only study that's been done with the risk of hepatoxicity on cypro showed that the risk increased proportionally with dosage (at 50mg, only around 3% were affected), and all the subjects were older men with prostate cancer.
The risk just isn't there for young trannies taking standard tranny dosages. Trannies getting liver damage from cypro just never happens

File: IMG_0103.jpg (21KB, 250x444px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 250x444px

Anyone here taken Ralox with Bica*? What effects on your body would they have when taken together? Thank-you

File: bicaraloxhormone.png (83KB, 746x777px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 746x777px

>>8631637
It should give similar effects to regular HRT actually. But there's no guarantee you won't get breasts.
Here's a hormonal test from a study done on men with prostate cancer and they used bica+ralox from this study:
http://www.clinical-genitourinary-cancer.com/article/S1558-7673(16)30260-9/fulltext

It actually appears that it gives near female range E after a while which is pretty neat. Cause bica on its own raises T and E, and raloxifene on it's own also raises T and E. But together they seem to actually reduce T, but raise E and possibly with ralox it should stop breast growth but no real guarantees since it isn't guaranteed to remove gyno as is.

>>8631637
I'll be on ralox and bica soon. I'll try being a guinea pig for at least three or four months. I guess I'll post any interesting findings here...

Yo what is up with my breasts/chest/whatever.
I've been on hrt for only a little bit and there is a extreme sensitivity to my chest, nipple areas. I know erected nipples is common and expected but I have this weird solid growth under both nipples which was about the size of a marble and now a gumball. I only read from one site that this is normal but the rest I couldn't get a proper answer. so is hard tissue under nipples during breast growth normal or do I have cancer now?

>>8633038
Breast cancer usually is abnormally shaped and isn't typically under the nipple.

What you're feeling is probably the gland growing.

do trans girls on average have very low sex drives? Or atleast lower than biological girls?

>>8633190
I'd say the same since T inherently gives you more sex drive.

So about three months ago, I began injecting 1ml of 10mg intramuscular estrogen WITHOUT AA, once a week. I began to quickly see changes such as nonexistant random erections and morning wood fairly quickly, perhaps 2 weeks in. Currently, erections are difficult to achieve, morning wood is gone, there is some fat redistribution, and I have little breast buds.

I had appointment with doctor yesterday and after I asked him about AAs, without doing any prior blood test, he gave prescription for 50mg cypro. I asked him about the blood test and he says that they are not needed right now. In fact, I have had not any kind of blood tests yet.

Obviously I know better so I went ahead to family clinic and asked for liver function test, and I'm waiting for the results to come back. Meanwhile, I've split the cypro and took 12.5mg this morning to be safe.

Anyway, assmuing that I won't be able to get blood tests done for testostorone and estrogen, is there a huge risk of harming my health in respect to my dosages? (I think my dosages are quite low but I'm not sure.)

I've looked around but it's difficult to find places that do tests for hormone levels.

tl;dr: injecting 1ml of 10mg estrogen valerate once a week AND taking 12.5mg of cypro. Is this ok?

File: Akko_cry.gif (230KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

230KB, 500x281px

>>8633392
saged but i'm scared ;w;
;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;; i don't want to end up hon but i also dont wanna have osteoporosis or liver damage ;w;w ;;w;w;

Am 24, very girly already, want to start HRT but I want my cock and balls intact and working.

Any advice?

>>8633406
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If you want to become a woman, you don't get to have functioning erections.

>>8633426
But viagra would help with that right?

File: 1417400918998.png (314KB, 572x474px) Image search: [Google]

314KB, 572x474px

>>8633431
Do women get blood flow to the crotch if they take viagra??

Would a mtf with female hormone levels be able to sustain a real ereciton that way??

If so, why hasn't the porn industry made a billion videos with transgirls on viagra??

>>8633436
Sarcasm aside, thanks for the info.

File: 1434661309662.jpg (427KB, 750x797px) Image search: [Google]

427KB, 750x797px

>>8633453
You are welcome Anonymous. I wish you luck.

viagra increases oxytocin levels

>>8628637
would it be possible to stay on bica constantly, but only take E on intervals to slow the sterilization?
I feel like estrogen levels would be going up and down, but remain high enough because of bica. Maybe taking small or spread out doses of E would prevent bulking up better than taking bica alone.

>>8633513
what does that cause?

How does 25mg cypro/100mcg estradot sound?

>>8634421
i've heard it works for a lot of ppl with only 12.5mg
risk to liver increases with dosage

This is probably a really weird question or an awkward place to ask, but is there any way to restore your ability to cum, or at least cum more, while on HRT? I kind of don't know that I want to lose it completely and I feel like my partner would be less satisfied if I couldn't.

Two months into HRT, 100mg of spiro and 2mg of estradiol. Wew ya'll have given me a lot to think about. Got some questions for the doc in a couple of weeks for sure. Want to ramp this stuff up.

>>8634532

Oh I did have one question if anyone has any thoughts or experience on smoking tobacco and drinking alcohol while on HRT.

File: IMG_0104.jpg (45KB, 600x385px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 600x385px

>>8632370
>>8632469
Thank you anons. Yes I'm gonna do Bica/Ralox very soon, I'll see what happens and post back here too

I want the absolute best changes possible, but I'm pretty poor, is there any improvement to taking estrofem instead of progynova? (Currently taking 50mg cypro 4mg estrofem)
Also I'm gonna start taking 6mg soon. When should I take my doses with progynova and/or estrofem? Thanks in advance.

>>8635454
estrofem is sublingual more absorbed progynova is liver more lost, Elleste Solo on qhi is the same as estrofem but cheaper, you could probably drop the cypro to 25mg.

>>8634541
Smoking tobacco is not advised because it increases the amount of androgens in your body, and it increases the risk of blood clots.

Drinking alcohol while on Spiro is kind of a pain in the ass. You know how you normally have to drink a lot of water when you drink alcohol so you don't get dehydrated and have a hangover? Multiply it by at least 2.

>>8635564
Thanks for that, do I take Elleste Solo every 8h or all 3 pills at once? Or maybe 2 in the morning 1 in the evening etc.

>>8621307
How bad is HRT such as cypro or bica to your liver?

Is drinking beer or any alcohol bad? Do they masculinize you?

>>8635819
alcohol actually lowers testosterone, not significantly though

>>8635819
Beer is a big source of phytoestrogens in western men.

>>8635869
>>8635880

So drinking 3 beers per week shouldn't be a problem right? Other than calories.

>>8635888
Nah should be fine

>>8635813
Usually the biggest issue with cypro is it causes hyperprolactemeia in some people.
You should also avoid alcohol until you're at lower dosages maybe. Most of the risk will be while you're at 50mg. Once you are at 12.5mg there shouldn't be that many problems.

>>8635803
Take it the same as your taking estrofem, or breakfast lunch dinner, desu idk exactly as im only on 2mg atm, when i up it tho ill try spreading it out.

>>8634506
lower your hormone dosage, if that's an acceptable compromise for you

>>8633038
what you're describing is the norm. the pain/sensitivity will last years so get used to it lol

>>8631215
use monoxidil daily

>>8626108
>>8626111
Me again by the way.

>>8627093
I guess I am just afraid that I'll never see changes like breasts or even hips. Also, I decided to finally check out what the fuss was about with that Wii Fit since I found a working board at Goodwill and bought the game from eBay. So I've been working out. Will this exercise affect my transition or would it help it along?

If my hormone levels are this low already. Is it really only a matter of when I start seeing change rather than if I start seeing change or should I worry about the possibility that change may never come?

>>8639121
I am contemplating taking hair loss drugs, but I am not on Spiro or anything like that just estrogen.

File: ss (2017-04-23 at 08.00.22).jpg (58KB, 366x417px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 366x417px

Jesus fucking Christ, why is it so hard to bite the bullet and just do the damn thing? Every time I try to buy hormones I back out before completing the order.

It's like I subconsciously want to lose all hope and kill myself.

>>8639524
feels good to be naive

>>8639531
Explain?

>>8639524
Treat it as a mental illness first and see if you still want to change

>>8639579
I feel like I've done that already. I mean, I've felt fundamentally wrong for more or less my entire life, but I could never understand why. All I had to go on was a feeling of disconnect from my body and being really uncomfortable when people acknowledge genders. It's weird.

As an example, my mom refers to herself a lot as "this girl." It kills me on the inside, and always has.

File: santa foda.jpg (29KB, 462x377px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 462x377px

>>8639524
Wait till you buy them and start procrastinating about just fucking doing it.

t. femboy/tranny/idkwtf thing with 5months worth of hrt in my room since may

>>8639524
Ik the feel today was the closest i got then i bought weed was 3months sober.

>>8639600
>I could never understand why.
Have you seen a therapist?

Also you clearly have anxiety about making an important step which is normal, but if your go-to response is to run away from it you might have avoidant personality disorder.

>>8639790
Wow are you for real? I couldn't get myself to buy them and was on the fence for years.
But once I did I've popped a pill right away.

Maybe because it got really bad for me and I've been feeling like I have to do something... anything. And weighting logical pros and cons. If you feel dysphoric and depressed you need to jump on the opportunity to get out of this hell even if you are not 100% sure where it will lead you - you need an escape.

>>8639876
Ouch. Running away from your problems to drugs never helps.

>>8639900
It's more temporary this time, my dad convinced me to not diy and go through the mental health system instead, I said i got 3 options hormones/weed to buy time/suicide he said weed and talk to the psych hopefully they let me legit considering it's the reason i relapsed, whats worse a schizophrenic on drugs with no life or a sober transgender that's a functioning member of society, if the specialist's turn me away there's seriously something fucked up with the system.

>>8640124
>if the specialist's turn me away there's seriously something fucked up with the system.
I've read enough stories here to know the system fucks over trannies non-stop, every country.

>>8639542
I just hope that hrt doesn't fuck me up

File: 1501105576377 - Copy.jpg (138KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 768x1024px

What causes "tranny conetits" and how to avoid them? Luck and genetics?

I'm taking cypro (wich also has progesterone effects) and i'm fucking scared of conetits. I'm a femboy, and some mins ago there was a thread of a mtf with huge conetits that actually looked like a pair of snail eyes (the thread got deleted). Apparently she was on hrt for 8 months.

How to avoid this? I don't mind AA cups if they grow round, but i'm absolutely scared of big pointy sticks. I already have a bit of gyno due to being chubby during all my life. Btw i'm 19 and been on cypro for 2 weeks, waiting the 1 month mark to start Estrogen. SERMS are poison.

>Pic related, her boobs are perfect and the ideal size for a femboy, but i'm scared mine will grow bigger.

>>8642231
conetits are a meme, it's part of normal breast development before fat forms around the breast.

File: 1466208597739.png (554KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

554KB, 1280x720px

Hey ho tranny-os

Few Question to any MtF from the UK (Preferably Scotland but any is good)

>What channels do you go through to get onto the titty skittle wagon?

>What sort of questions were you asked for the first time?

>Do they require this "Real Life Experience" shit that those other shithole countries have?

is 25mg/d of Bicalutamide paired with 1-2mg/d of progynova a good idea?
or are low doses of E unsafe? even if taken at the correct times like morning/night by cutting tablets in half.
My main goal is to get the lowest testicular atrophy possible, and avoid breast growth the best I can without dropping too low on T and E.
I could do raloxifene but I don't like the unknowns with that.

File: 1498273195074.jpg (89KB, 1004x1000px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 1004x1000px

>>8642510
I'm interested in this too, i think that SERMS are too dangerous and expensive:

Can i keep a low dose of E (2mg split through the day for example) after 1 or 2 years, without problems because of low E? I'll get cypro so no T for me.

Redpill me on progesterone.

I'd like larger breasts and a higher sex drive. Will Progesterone assist in these endeavors?

>>8622356
What if you were to take cypro and bical together?

Do y'all ever think what you'll look like when you'll be 50 years old ?
Can someone show me a cute trannie that is old , seriously ?

>>8642231
Time.

You will have conetits for awhile, then you will have normal tits, unless you transition late and don't get much boob growth, in which case you'll be stuck with cone tits.

Make sense?

20yo here. After waiting two months for my appointment in the South, I've been on 25mg Spiro and 1mg estradiol for about a week now. What should I expect? I've been feeling kind of tired lately, but that's about the extent of it. I feel a little different but I'm not really sure in what way

>>8629147
>Yes, most competent endos will agree it is vital for breast growth. If you are not on Cypro (which is a progestin itself), you should be taking progesterone.
THANK YOU I've been waiting for a good answer. Everywhere I go has conflicting info.

>>8639418
Just another bump looking for responses to my concerns and questions.

I remember some trans girl composition major/vocalist posting about voice lessons she gives on Skype some months ago. It might have been in trans girl general. Does anybody have her contact info?

Just a few brief stupid questions because I'm curious:
Does a person need to take hormones their whole life for the effects to remain or is it just a one time thing when someone transitions over the course of a few years and then that's it?

What would happen if a 21-22 year old person who has been on HRT since like 16, started to lift over the course of 2-3 years? Would male traits come back? Like, hair growing... and stuff like that. If so, anything else that'd happen?

I'm sorry, I don't want to read any of the guides in the OP. I'm just passing by.

>>8642975
Depends how much testicular atrophy they have had. Generally speaking you can recover penile atrophy as that is simply vascular tissue and never truly atrophies permanently, but testicular atrophy is typically said to be permanent.
If your testes have atrophied too much and you stopped HRT you'd essentially be a eunuch even if you tried weightlifting. But it really depends on how bad the atrophy is. Plus it might be a little dangerous given the osteoporosis.

And yes you need to take hormones for your entire life since besides a minimal baseline of hormones that your adrenals produce the only way to get to female range E is with ovaries and the only way to get to male range T is with testicles.

I'm so fucking confident and happy since beginning (2 mos, MtF)

>>8639418
Exercise is perfectly fine if your levels are good, which yours are.
Adding finasteride if you had MPB is also fine. Minoxidil is topical so it doesn't affect anything.

There's nothing you can really do to speed things up. Adding progesterone is a good idea though. Maybe get your E1:E2 ratios checked since I've heard that helps many people and switching forms of estrogen can change the ratio.
Other than that your levels seem perfectly fine.

i'm from the US and im trying to self med.
do i need a prescrption to use qhi? what's the deal with inhouse? cypro is cyproterone right? i don't thiiiink qhi has it in stock so where can i get it?

i have decent amounts of facial hair sadly will hrt eventually do anything to it?

>>8643683
Usually HRT changes hair that turned into terminal hairs within the past year-ish back into vellus hair, though facial hair is often more resilient.
It will also slow the growth down.

Realistically you should begin looking into electrolysis. Checkout groupon for better deals.

>>8643683
What do you mean by decent amount? Like you can grow a beard if you want to? If that's the case then your only solution is electrolysis. HRT will only slow the growth of facial hair it won't in most cases get rid of it.

>>8643690
>>8643695
>Like you can grow a beard if you want to?
yeah :\
>electro
isnt that really painful? oh man :(

File: 1464202708894.jpg (157KB, 703x600px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 703x600px

>>8643703
no pain, no gain, nigga

Hey does progynova grow bigger tits? Where can I buy cypro as a self medder? And does hrt and electro eventually get rid of the discolored skin where the facial hair grows?

>>8643690
>>8643695
What's the best hair removal method if electro's not available to you yet?

>>8643703
There's no method that isn't painful. The roots of hair are too deep for laser and IPL typically.
You have to be very wary of laser places claiming they can get rid of men's facial hair. It usually requires higher power machines that most places don't have. What a lot of places end up doing is just stunning the follicle and it regrows in a couple years.

I'd say to be safe just find a place that does either galvanic electrolysis or blend electrolysis. Don't get thermolysis since it requires more training to do and it's not even as effective as galvanic or blend anyway.
If you want to risk your money on laser though you could give it a shot, just make sure you're careful and read tons of reviews of places.

>>8643786
so don't even bother with home electro? kind of falls in line with something a friend just told me about a decent electro job getting rid of some lip volume because of shitty hairs
i assume you dont get that with home

i don't have access to electro places rn though so what's best til then? just normal shaving has kind of fucked me up with scars and bumps

>>8643819
Well there's nothing stopping you from buying a legitimate electrolysis machine and using it at home. Most of the cheap systems are pretty scammy though and aren't actual electrolysis machines. Running current through a gel on the skin does nothing.
But most people recommend not to do it to yourself since it's too difficult. It's easier for someone to do it to another person.

>>8643819
Also you could try epilating your face. But it's obviously going to be painful. They make small epilators for doing facial hair.
Usually stuff like your moustache hair has roots that are about a half inch deep though. Facial hair is in there pretty good lol

Epilating only makes doing laser more difficult in the future, it doesn't affect electrolysis as long as you stop plucking the hair once you start electro.

>>8643823
oh hmm i see.... that makes sense then. guess i just have to keep shaving :(
different question now: could i do hrt w/o taking blood tests and not like die or take too many years off my life?

>>8643836
If you do it without blood tests then you're simply just accepting the risk. But you have doctor-patient confidentiality so you are free to go to a GP and get tested without any major issues.

>>8643842
well i don't have insurance, and i don't know if my family would approve and i'm reliant on them right now for transportation :(

>>8643842
different question but what's the deal with inhouse and prescriptions? i need a place to buy cypro and estro from

>>8643964
Pretty sure you can just ignore that and it goes through.
Not sure though, they don't ship to my country.

>>8643751
shit, I planned on taking progynova in small doses to avoid tits, what estrogen is the least likely to cause gyno>?

>>8644130
>what estrogen is the least likely to cause gyno
lolwat you do know what estrogen is right?

>>8644130
You can't go on HRT without growing boiboobs.

That's why HRT is for transgirls and not effeminate men.

>>8621307
what about avodart/dutasteride? Need to reverse the hairline...

How much and which combo can it be mixed with?

>>8644141
>>8644155
planned on hiding it as long as possible and I like the idea of smaller boobs.
is there any estrogen known for better breast growth that I should avoid? I think I want an A cup at most. I'm skinny right now so starting with a flat chest

>>8644206
>I think I want an A cup at most
Yeah, you say that now, just wait until you grow a pair of perky C cups. You will love them and then you will wish they were twice as big.

>>8644204
Dutasteride or finasteride are perfectly fine.
I would say use microneedling plus minoxidil as well like in this study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
I use it to recover my temple hair and it definitely works. Even if there's no vellus hair left microneedling with 1mm to 1.5mm needles every 1.5 to 3 weeks and minoxidil twice a day plus hrt+fina/duta will recover your hair since microneedling regrows vellus hair and minoxidil converts it to terminal hair.
It might take several years though but it will come back.
I saw someones pics on Susan's that recovered a huge huge amount of hair from like george costanza levels over the course of 3 years using the above techniques

File: 21.jpg (22KB, 802x276px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 802x276px

two questions:
how the fuck do I avoid ugly tits?
what happens if you don't eat much on hormones?

>be on 50mg bica, 4mg progynova daily for about 3 months
>get blood test results
my E is like 60 and my T is high (which was expected) but i dunno if 60 is a good level to be at at 4mg daily. should i just raise my dose?

>>8632370
>But together they seem to actually reduce T
This is incorrect. All patients in the study had already been on another antiandrogen or had an orchiectomy prior to the study. The ones that were already taking another antiandrogen continued taking it during the study. The median baseline testosterone level was 12 ng/dL, whereas typical males are 250-1000 ng/dL In a typical male who isn't castrated or taking another antiandrogen, taking bicalutamide and raloxifene together will cause your testosterone levels to increase.

>>8631637
>>8632469
>>8634558
See above. At least get blood tests when you're guinea pigging. If your DHT levels are above 1000 pg/mL, then you're at risk of DHT overpowering bicalutamide.

>>8633392
>>8633404
>osteoporosis
That typically only happens if you're taking antiandrogens without estradiol. You're taking estradiol, so you're probably fine.
>liver damage
Yes, this is a concern with cypro. At 50 mg, you should definitely be getting liver function tests.

>>8635880
>Beer is a big source of phytoestrogens in western men.
lol

>>8642510
>lowest testicular atrophy possible
You're in luck, bicalutamide makes your balls bigger.
>are low doses of E unsafe?
Bicalutamide already brings estradiol levels to low female range, so you'll probably be fine.

>>8642630
There's no point. Bicalutamide is a pure androgen receptor antagonist and cypro already suppresses testosterone levels.

>>8642725
A freak. It's gonna be great.

>>8642825
>What should I expect?
Breast buds after a month or two and not much else.

>>8642966
Zheanna? She's a musician and does voice lessons over Skype. Ask for her contact info in /mtfg/; someone will probably have it.

>>8643679
>do i need a prescrption to use qhi?
No.
>what's the deal with inhouse?
Nothing? It's just another online pharmacy.
>cypro is cyproterone right?
Yes.
>i don't thiiiink qhi has it in stock so where can i get it?
It's listed under the "product index" section but not the "hormones" section.

>>8644130
All estrogen will make you grow breasts (especially if you're also taking an antiandrogen).

>>8643835
>epilating your face
Sure, if you hate yourself.

>>8644569
>my E is like 60
60 what? 60 pg/mL? That's too low.

Pros/cons of progesterone? Read it increases chance of breast cancer significantly when taken with E? I want the best boons I can get, but if the risks are too much... I'm currently taking bica, estrofem, duta and fin if that changes anything.

>>8644827
>I'm currently taking bica, estrofem, duta and fin
yeah you should take progesterone, spiro, and cypro on top of that. every drug you add makes you more of a girl.

>>8644705
Asking for a friend;

What would happen if you had an orchie, and were taking estrofem or estradiol, but then took ralox or tamoxifene as well? Would you feminize without tits?

Are elleste solo 2mg ok to take sublingually? They've got a film coating.

Should I be taking progesterone soon, I'm coming up on a year hrt? The NHS says they wont give it to me because no benefits apparently but they're probably like 30 years behind in research...

Currently on 2mg twice a day and a zoladex/goserelin injection every 3 months if that makes a difference.

>>8644834
Ain't a cocktail without a few increadients. = )

File: cc141[1].jpg (38KB, 332x499px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 332x499px

>>8642725
granny Caroline still looking fine in her 60s
but that's obviously an exception

>>8644839
yeah sublingually, it's hemihydrate - reading instruction helps

>>8644837
SERMs block estrogen receptors in breasts preventing development, someone was cycling because taking it all the time is not good for your health (there was long-term study on women taking tamoxifene for more than year+ to prevent breast cancer, could look it up)

>>8622722
>I'm gonna buy Cypro but how do I do it? IHP shows that cyproterone acetate is discontinued but there's another thing. Do I buy that instead? A, I supposed to get it from another website?
Depends what the other thing is...

"Androcur" is a brand name for cypro, so if that's what you mean then get that.

>>8644868
>taking it all the time is not good for your health

Thanks Anon, knew it was too good to be true.

>>8644837
First, a couple things:
>tamoxifen
Causes cognitive dysfunction. Don't take it unless you have a good reason.
>estrofem or estradiol
They're the same thing. Estrofem is a brand name for estradiol.

Back to your original question:
Raloxifene is an estrogen receptor antagonist (blocker) in the breast and uterus, and an estrogen receptor agonist in bone. That means you won't get osteoporosis or grow tits if you're taking raloxifene alone. There is research showing that raloxifene induces a female lipid profile and body fat distribution[1]. However, based on anecdotal, first-hand reports from people on 4chan and Reddit, the amount of body fat redistribution on raloxifene is significantly less than on estradiol.

The effect of estradiol and raloxifene together depends on the relative binding affinity to the estrogen receptor in different parts of the body. It it known that raloxifene has a higher binding affinity to the estrogen receptor in breast tissue than estradiol (that's why it's used to treat breast cancer in pre-menopausal women), so you likely won't grow tits while taking raloxifene and estradiol together. However, it's unclear whether raloxifene or estradiol wins with respect to body fat production. If raloxifene is stronger, you would get the limited body fat redistribution described in the previous paragraph. If estradiol is stronger, you'd see the usual body fat redistribution that MTFs experience.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16218045

>>8644881
well there are women who take it for 5-10 years to prevent breast cancer

>>8644924
... and then they get uterine cancer. Who knows what kind of cancer a male taking tamoxifen for an extended period of time would get.

>>8644827
iirc the breast cancer risk is only with ethinyl estradiol, which nobody should be using anymore

>>8644705
yeah 60 pg/ml
i know its low, so can i raise my dose or?... is my bica not working or something?

>>8644969
I'm not a doctor nor am I trans, but I believe 4-10mg is the typical dosage range. Perhaps you could ask your doctor to increase it to 6mg or 8mg.

>is my bica not working or something?
Bicalutamide wouldn't be the cause of low estradiol. Bicalutamide increases estradiol levels.

>>8625473
Those drugs don't normally cause those effects. Either you're allergic or it's some other illness. Either way, go to a doctor, and sadly it's best that you stop HRT for now. If it's an allergy, when/if you restart, begin by taking only one drug so you can isolate which one it is.

>>8644457
I have massive "i bench 315 pecs". Had some friends making fun of how big they are because the muscles is at least a b cup. Will muscle atrophy be faster than boob growth?

File: 1466329923811.jpg (322KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

322KB, 600x800px

Is it ok to have a few beers while on cypro/e? The guy I like wants to hang out and I don't want to be a buzz kill

which is better for avoiding any hair loss? bica or spiro? (and how long does spiro take to sterilize you, I'd ask the same thing about estrogen too. on bica with estro, how long will my nuts last?)

>>8645670
Well neither. Not taking any hormones will lead to thinning if you're on AAs alone
Bica would probably thin your hair quicker and may accelerate MPB unless you take high dosages cause DHT has higher binding affinity so only in high dosages can bica compete
But without any hormones you'll experience generalized thinning

>>8645591
I usually go 2-3 beers, I get sloppy after that amount now anyways... I have no idea the appropriate number tho.

>>8645670
Bica is known to cause hair loss. It causes general thinning, not male pattern baldness.
>>8645675
At 50 mg, bicalutamide effectively blocks DHT. It's only an issue if you're simultaneously taking an estrogen blocker.

>>8645946
honestly hair loss is offputting enough to avoid HRT alltogether.
would bica + fina be a solution?
considering spiro but I'd wanna know how long until I'm effectively castrated

>>8646190
Finasteride is a treatment for male pattern balding. As far as I know, bicalutamide does not cause male pattern baldness. It causes general thinning of hair.

>>8645946
I think on wikipedia the study they cited said for bica to be competitive with dht you need a minimum of 150mg cause at 50mg/day it only ends up as 600-1500x excess concentration and bica needs a minimum of 1000x excess to beat dht.

>>8644206
Estrogen is just estrogen. It makes you grow boobs. If you don't want breast growth, you either try experimental shit like SERMs or get breast reduction surgery.

Would taking cypro elevate your prolactin levels? Mine are a bit high so and i'm taking cypro atm so i'm just wondering if that's the case.

>>8644662
Oh. Would it be better to take Ralox with Spiro in that case?

>>8642575

try sublingual E at 0.25-0.5mg per 4 hours. If sleeping, count the time sleeping and add it up in one dose.
This dose is very tiny, but still results in some female hormone presence. Just very little.

>>8644244
So if you do have existing vellus hair, minox turns it terminal? My temples are very receded but are loaded with tiny white hairs.

>>8647489
this is no guarantee for not having breast growth btw. Just min-maxing.

Is it possible that I lost my appetite for almost all kinds of meat? I used to be pretty normal in that regard but after a year on HRT I'm feeling kind of disgusted by meat and I don't know if it's related.

It's probably a really stupid question, but yeah

I just started HRT a few weeks ago. I'm on 100mg of spironolactone and .1 or .01(I forgot) Estrogen patch. How long is it before I start feeling the effects? Granted, I've been getting frequent migraines

what would happen if I took really low doses of spiro for a long time? I just want low T somehow.
I feel like mine is high especially since I weigh so little. my facial hair grows too fast also.

>>8646915
>At steady-state, relative to the normal adult male range for testosterone levels (300–1,000 ng/dL), circulating concentrations of bicalutamide at 50 mg/day are 600 to 2,500 times higher and at 150 mg/day 1,500 to 8,000 times higher than circulating testosterone levels [...]
>DHT levels in circulation are relatively low and only approximately 10% of those of circulating testosterone levels.
It's 600-2500x higher than testosterone levels. DHT levels are typically around 10% testosterone levels, so 50 mg is more than sufficient to block DHT in most of the body (the prostate being a possible exception, where about 90% of testosterone is converted to DHT).

>>8647381
Maybe. I've been researching this on and off for the past few weeks, and haven't been able to find any information on taking spironolactone and raloxifene together. Spironolactone is a complicated drug (its metabolites bind to many different receptors) so it's hard to say if there could be an interaction. Anyone who takes these together is a guinea pig. Please report back if you do!

>>8647731
Usually they always combine bica with duta for prostate cancer. I'd be really wary of not doing that since otherwise bica increases T and DHT.

>>8648085
Do you have prostate cancer?

>>8647490
Not always. Minoxidil has poor absorption which is why microneedling is needed if you want decent results.
But it doesn't always result in vellus hair turning terminal, but it is your best bet if combined with fina and hrt.
It's not a magical cure and many people give up too soon. It can take years for full regrowth.

>>8648095
They combine it with duta due to the increased dht. If your intention is to not get hair loss you should do the same I would think. They obviously do it for a reason.

>>8648097
I see. I have a dermaroller and have used it enough in the past, but its such a small area for it. Do you use a derma press? If so where the heck do you find them?

>>8648101
>They obviously do it for a reason.
Yes, because 90% of testosterone is converted to DHT in the prostate. That's not the case in the rest of the body.

>>8648118
5-AR is also present in hair follicles

>>8648103
You could buy a microneedle pen if you can't get your rollers to work.
My 1mm roller seems to work just fine for me though

>>8648130
Yes, but in much lower concentration than in the prostate.

How do I get blood work done if I don't have insurance?

>>8648135
It seems to be enough to affect body hair though. The treatment for hirsuitism in women usually uses cypro+finasteride
Plus I've heard tons of people say adding fina to their hrt helped their hair and reduced body hair

But it's ultimately your choice in the end. If you're happy with what you have then that's fine

>>8648136

http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/Female_Hormone_Testing.php

Don't mind it saying "female" on the site, when you print your form it only lists what tests are being done like T and E and whatnot. Its just the cheapest blood test that covers both.

Quick question.
I'm in San Antonio, TX. And the Planned Parenthood up in Austin offers informed consent, only place for hundreds of miles.
Does anyone have experience with Planned Parenthood as a way to get hrt? Like are there any major problems with them?
Or is there a better way to get on hrt in San Antonio that you know of?
>inb4 self med

>>8648176
i got pills from planned parenthood two months ago. it was pretty easy. i just signed the form, got blood drawn, and picked the pills up from the pharmacy later that day. they'll give you spiro though, so if you want bica or cypro you'll have to order it yourself. personally i thought i'd just try spiro for a while and see if i wanted to switch.

my problem is that i think my blood test results didn't include test/estro levels, and also my starting dose is super low (50 mg spiro / 1 mg estradiol per day). but i got the pills at least and don't mind taking things slow.

I gave in and bought mones again. How do I stole myself from having a breakdown and throwing them away again(other than therapy)

Hair question /hrtgen/

Been on cypro for a good while now starting at 150mg and tapering down to 50mg daily. I started for MPB and also for a little feminization but I've noticed my hair is getting thinner all around my scalp. I've gotten thyroid checked because that's the pattern it's thinning at and I started supplementing conjugated estrogen gel for a little more dominant estrogen. I eat pretty clean and get roughly 7-7.5 hours of sleep a night. Also I exercise a few times a week.

I have no idea how to stop it and my next step is to go on Ralox in hopes I'm not getting enough estrogen.

I can't help but think that most eunuchs would have thinning hair if it were lack of estrogen causing my problem. Also my hair is very dry no matter if I shampoo every few days and condition regularly, and every time I run through my hair it feels like the slightest touch will pull out hair which is painful.

Pls halp. How can I achieve femboi status without long sexy hair? Any help greatly appreciated.

Am I too old to do HRT? I'm 26.

>>8649920
Well you ain't getting any younger, the older you are the more the odds stack against you. Tough decision for you, but so is the way of major life choices. Good luck with whatever you decide.

>>8649822
isn't that a massive dosage for cypro?

>>8649822
>>8650304
Yeah dose is too high, lower it. Too little T and your hair starts falling out.

I am a muscular man and I want to be more muscular

Am I welcome here? Can any FtMs tell me where to get roids?

>>8650420
Just work out like a normal muscular man would do.

>>8650409
Holy fucking shit... How is this not a common thing on here? And can you point me to some studies?

I figured with all the people self-medding on here that a handful would find out that nuking T can cause hair loss.

So should I go all the way down to 12.5mg and Ralox? Thanks for the sweet info.

>>8647102
Need help pls

>>8650409
How low T starts causing hair loss? Is it bad to be at 9 ng/dl?

>>8650444
As long as you're in female range you're fine, below that it can lead to some problems.

>>8650431
>>8650409

Also does the low T correlate to higher DHT levels or hair loss through lack of sex hormone?

I figured since cypro inhibits test production, DHT conversion would be very low. Although I can see how having no dominant sex hormone could have hair related issues.

>>8650451
MPB is associated with DHT, general hair thinning is due to low T.

When should I lower my cypro dose? I've been on 25mg and that's kept my T low for about 4 months. When should I move down to 12.5mg?

>>8650431
i had unmeasureable T on cypro for a year and i experienced no hair loss at all. your male genes are adamant about making you bald

>>8650458
Fuck thank you. I definitely have a thinning development all around my scalp and the hair is dry and coarse.

Do you happen to have any studies I can read on about this?

>>8650476
Well if I cared what my genes wanted I wouldn't be on HRT lel. If I have to get a mild transplant sometime in the future then fine. But I am not going bald.

Also were you on E at that time?

How do I lower prolactin levels? Mine are pretty high.

>>8650476
This. I was balding and took cypro. Completely stopped my loss.

>>8650609
Why not keep them high?

>>8644457
Cycle progesterone after a year of HRT.

>>8642966
Hey, I take lessons with Z. Her Skype is in the archives. It's Dreamsura. Shes super knowledgeable about voice.

>>8650609
I wish there was something to take for increasing prolactin, its so random if people have high or nonexistant levels.

>>8650609
Use a breast pump

>>8650616
isn't having high prolactin bad?

hrt shrinks the prostate right? Is it harder to have prostate orgasms?

>>8650662
It is harder to have orgasms in general.

>>8650488
bamp

Oh god i had an orchie 12 months ago... we thought it will sort itself out, the testosterone will go down. Half a year later 0,8 ng/mL which is a lot, but whatever, lets wait. Blood test last week, results came in: 1,2 ng/mL which is A LOT. DHT through the roof aswell, at least SHGB is high. Still, amiunt of free testosterone is still high.
1,2 ng/mL is within male range :(
Like - how?! Without testes? I started cypro again and yup, feeling better already. I still don't want to take AA for another 10 years. I thought an orchie would resolve this.
GnRH are better for me but they are expensive and I wanna avoid having my insurance pay that much (still covered though)

>>8650624
Domperidon, MCP or a progesterone crash
>>8650642
Can lead to tumors if you have high levels all the time but it can be benefical for breast growth to have a cyclic hrt with prolactin variation. Spiro tends to elevate prolactin-levels constantly which some say is bad, due to the reason above.

>>8651783
I thought cypro elevated prolactin levels

when is it ok to lower cypro dose, I'm on 25mg ATM and that's been enough to nuke my T for 4 months. My testies have atrophied as well.

>>8651873
My provincial trans health authority's guidelines say after 6 months, but you're probably fine, cypro is a helluva drug.

>>8651801
Would make sense cause it's a progestine aswell
>>8651873
May ask her to lower your dose? Some do fine with 12,5 mg after a while

>>8651760
Well, the good news is that 1.2 ng/mL is below adult male range (2.5-10 ng/mL). Bad news is it's above female range.

You should make an appointment with an endocrinologist. They would be able to figure out what the source is.

Are you fat, by the way? PCOS is correlated with obesity and lack of exercise, so fixing that might help.

>>8650420
Go to your doctor and tell them you're transitioning to male. When they tell you that you're already male, tell them you want to be a REAL man.

looking to take a low dosage anti androgen to lower my test to about 250ng/dl (still safe range), haven't got the time to do all the research I need to fully transition right now, so I want to do something to slow everything down, I'm about 180cm and 83kg, 20% body fat, also how do I go about getting tests done to make sure my test is in the range i'm looking for?

Just say that you can either do it the safe way with your doctor or you can do it the unsafe way by yourself, take a look on steroid selling websites, they should outline how to do a basic 10 week cycle with 50 micrograms.

>>8652213
I visited her yesterday, I started cypro again and may switch to luprone. Still I didn't change much during the non AA-period, so I'm still stealth and pass...
Source is unknown. PCOS isn't really related cause I'm amab? I'm not obese, I'm currently losing weight and no thats not the reason aswell. I had normal weight during the last months. I just seem to have high T

>>8652269
>PCOS isn't really related cause I'm amab?
PCOS is caused by elevated androgen levels, which is exactly what you're experiencing. You don't have testes, so I suggested looking at causes of PCOS because those could be the source of your testosterone. Obviously you don't have ovaries so you wouldn't have the usual symptoms of PCOS.

>>8652288
You don't make any sense

>>8652389
You're right. I didn't understand the mechanism by which obesity causes elevated androgen levels in women with PCOS, which led me to make flawed reasoning. I read about it and see now that the mechanism by which that happens is not possible in a male with an orchiectomy. Sorry.

>>8652411
Poly cystic ovarian syndrome is not possible because there aren't even ovaries. PCOS causes high test, and if there are no ovaries PCOS is entirely off the table. High T isn't tht uncommon in women, I still don't undertand why you started with PCOS in people with no ovaries; there has to be other reasons. Thanks for trying to help though.

... you don't happen to be a TERF that likes to rub in us not having ovaries, do you? ;_;

>>8651937
Scratch that, I've actually been on cypro for 3 months. First month of hrt I was on spiro.

>>8621307
if i have visible pecs(not moobs), how long before i have to start wearing compression shirts to hide the itty bitty titties?

I'm 20 (1/2ish) now, and am about to have the hrt talks with doctors.

Which meds should I be looking for or looking to avoid due to age?

I got lower back pain about 4 hours after taking 25mg spiro (first dose) and it's still present 19 hours later. Is this something to be worried about, or should I just wait a couple days and see if it goes away?

How long could someone be on AA without an orchiectomy? 10/20 years? Indefinitely?

>>8654221
Most likely it is just age that would get you as your organs weaken the older you get.
When you're young you can use AAs for quite a while. But there is no set time. Realistically you should try to be off AAs by your 40s

>>8644662
You seem very knowledgeable. I previously read that Raloxifene didn't really provide a HRT-like effect, and even in the OP it says it's mostly for very slight feminization in femboys. Which is true, that it's effective or no?

File: 1497400316568.gif (2MB, 443x269px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 443x269px

So how does fat redistrobution work?

Will it move my existing fat?

Or do I have to lose fat then gain fat all over again?

>>8654369
seconding this
I'm already rail thin everywhere but my thighs, though, luckily

>>8654369
Your body constantly turns over fat cells so it will inevitably move and replace existing adipose tissue

File: image.png (123KB, 733x366px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 733x366px

>>8654321
I actually discussed that with another anon earlier in the thread: >>8644896

Summary: after 1 year, post-menopausal women taking raloxifene had less abdominal and upper body fat and more leg fat than those taking a placebo. This is consistent with a feminine fat distribution.

>>8654569
What I gather from this is that it is fairly worthless, either that or post-menopausal women retain much of their fat distribution anyway. A difference of .545kg in abdominal fat after 12 months is not effective enough to spend hundreds of dollars on. Thanks for the science.

I asked this earlier >>8654221 but nobody seems to know the answer to this. I've gotten several different answers so far, could you perhaps share your insight? The range of answers I've gotten is pretty confusing.

>>8654636
>post-menopausal women retain much of their fat distribution anyway
This is the case. Note the average BMI was 25, so these are by no means skinny people. Personally, I think it's promising and I plan to discuss it with my doctor.

>>8654221
It depends on the AA. Here's a study that included people using spironolactone for up to 8 years:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12219252
I looked around online a bit, and there are people who claim to have taken it for up to 14 years. I think it's probably safe to take indefinitely.

>>8621307
how long do you stay on dutasteride?

>>8654677
I can't find the full text of that study to figure out what their dosage was, but I'd guess it's significantly lower than HRT. It's frustrating that such a seemingly critical question seems to be relatively unexplored. Thanks, what a nightmare it would be to go on HRT and be told 5 years later your liver can't take it and you have to stop. Oh well.

>>8654800
Dose was 50-100 mg/day. You can find the full text of almost any paper on Sci-Hub (sci-hub.ac). Just copy the DOI or PubMed URL into the search box.

ive been taking 12mg estrofem for 2 weeks and havent seen any changes
should i increase my dose to 16mg?
also do i need to take cypro and spiro too or is that unnecessary?

>>8654930
>12mg estrofem

Anon are you being retarded and haven't looked up normal dosages? People usually take 4-6 what the hell are you doing?

>>8655054
yea im taking 4 but i thought you were supposed to take it 3 times a day

File: WP_20170731_03_10_21_Pro.jpg (460KB, 1600x900px) Image search: [Google]

460KB, 1600x900px

Been on HRT for about 14 months now, when will i start to see changes? Can't tell if I've started to grow breasts or not.

>>8655095
You're not supposed to self-med if you can't even do some proper research. Get fixed before attempting hormones on your own, or get to an endocrinologist

>>8655095
You misinterpreted. Sounds like you should be taking a single 2mg pill, 3 times daily, totaling 6mg a day. I sincerely hope someone didn't tell you to take 4mg three times a day.

>>8655115
what do you mean get fixed
you mean like neutered?
i thought you were supposed to do hrt first
youre confusing

>>8655117
oh ok ill do that instead

>>8655114
your skin looks pretty good

>>8654930
of course you're supposed to take spiro or cypro with estrogen.

What dosage on duta, If .5mg is for bph. I've read split it in 4 for hairloss also on cupro

One of my concerns with raloxifene was the risk of deep vein thrombosis, but apparently the risk of DVT on raloxifene is comparable to the risk of DVT on estradiol:
> The only serious adverse reaction to raloxifene is an increased risk of venous thromboembolism, which appears to be of similar magnitude to that associated with oestrogen.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12197366/

Question, anyone ever tried brewing their own estradiol valerate liquids for injections?

Eg.: playing with the idea based on 'homebrew steroids' https://hastebin.com/tewazinike.lua

>>8656192
Is there someway to make estrogen myself if the apocalypses happens?


Also, New Thread
>>8656719