/agpg/ - AGP General

DIDN'T FIX THE OP AGAIN REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>7708895
It is not too late. There is still another path. Make another thread with the right OP and hope the majority jump to that one.

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>>7708427
>>7708895
neither thicc-feminine nor skinny-androgynous – just natural beauty. if that's not compromise, nothing is.

good solution, op. you must be a buddha.

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>natural female edition

>>7708895
or, if you are talking about fixing OP text message, you're not promoting it actively enough. because i can't find change proposal in the last thread.

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>>7708895

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I'm a trans woman with AAP! I made a thread about it but it got deleted.

>>7709293
>a transman with AAP!*
Why be a woman with AAP?

I'm mtf and I enjoy topping. Is that AAP?

>>7709296
no you're just agp transbian fetishist scum

>>7709296
Calling it AAP implies that women can't have dick. So no, it isn't.

>>7709298
>calling agp "scum" in agp thread
1. Because all transwomen must be sick like yourself... not.
2. You're not going to make friends here.

Not wanting to be something you find attractive is illness.
Lacking sexual interest in oneself is illness.
Being born in a wrong body is illness.
Despising sexual interest is illness.
NOT BEING AGP IS ILLNESS.

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she has huge breasts and an erection.

innit that awesome?

>>7709277
How did this meme start?

>a trans out of love, not self-hate
the best trans.

>>7709935
i will investigate it for you.

>>7709938
You should, there are some many pictures out there with this text.

>>7709937
excuse me you can be agp and still hate yourself.

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>>7709939
Heres the oldest one I've just managed to track down. It dates back to the 21st century, December 2015.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/3xs3mm/but_i_showed_you_my_dick/

>>7709939
And here's the oldest reference without image, dating back to May 2015.

http://brunomarsobsessed54.tumblr.com/post/118829439087/i-showed-you-my-dick-answer-me

>>7709293
If you mean this thread it's still up >>7703900

>>7709903

Doesn't look much like an erection.

>>7710212
shhh... let me dream.

>>7710182
good find. so maybe anon in present thread is an imposter.

>>7693373
>>7693057
>What if it isn't the type of HRT but just the nature of female hormones and natal male sex drive?
>Whether it's dependent on the type of HRT or female hormones in general, is the key question.
It took me a while to restart my brain and I think I've found an obvious answer. The claim that low libido is the nature of female hormones, or indeed the essence of womanhood, is founded on several crossrelated errors:
1. On a lexical confusion (misconception) about what it means to be female.
2. On a prejudice that testosterone is alien to the female organism.
3. On self-fulfilling misogyny which coerces women into conforming with the repressive (asexual) definition of womanhood.

It's an error of circular logic in which we invent femininity by drawing arbitrary boundaries on the gender spectrum, then we use this invention as a "proof" of our other claims. The claim that estrogen is female and testosterone is male has no foundation in facts of nature; it's an arbitrary idealisation, comparable to a claim that men are bald. Maybe it could be also explained as a mistaken identification of gender with disorders of gender.

It may seem that I myself committed this error when I said that women can't be judges of "sexy" because they have no sex drive. It was ironic on my part. I played along with my counterpart by using her oppressive notion of "female" as "one without testosterone". You have to play along some fallacies at first in order to unravel a web of misconceptions one thread at a time.

>>7691357
>What's wrong with FTMs?
They identify manhood with disorders of manhood.

>>7710501
How is that different from us and womanhood?

>>7710552
There is a substantial percentage of MTFs who embrace their "male" advantages.

>>7710594
What advantages do you mean?

>>7710637
In general: any male trait that isn't a regrettable side effect of being male. In particular: depends on individual.

>>7710637
Usually though, penis.

>>7710652
What traits can it be?

>>7710656
Hardly a major thing and also just an act of convenience in many cases.

How are FTMs worse than us for not feeling the same about their vaginas?

>>7710295

Hoping you'll grow big tits or you just like fapping to trannies?

>>7710832
autogynephilia = gynephilia

So both.

Not so much "hoping" as "wishing".

>>7710696
>Hardly a major thing and also just an act of convenience in many cases.
Penis is very important; perhaps more important than brain. Brain without penis is like compass without ship.

>How are FTMs worse than us for not feeling the same about their breasts?*
Fixed.

>>7710847
>Not so much "hoping" as "wishing".
Not transitioning? I'm not. I don't get dysphoria over my dick but I still wish I could be cis female.

wtf lesbians get agp now?! stop appropriating trans culture! >>7710522

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How is a fetish capable of producing such diabilating jealously towards women?

>>7711094

Not just the fetish, but the fact that you're constantly moving in the opposite direction because of testosterone.

>>7711094
it's not a fetish, it's a sexual orientation.

>>7710898
tl;dr FTMs are bad because they get triggered by their tits more than you get triggered by your dick

That doesn't somehow mean their manhood is disordered and our womanhood is pure, or that we value our male traits more than they value their female ones.

>>7709272
i always remind before the end of a thread, but a new thread is always made prematurely so i can't do it myself (as in return it to what it always was before someone unilaterally decided to make it shittier)

>>7711263
I like this OP. What's wrong with it?

>>7711275
i have already explained this multiple times
first
>>Do cis girls experience AGP?
>It's debated whether or not AGP is the same as the sexuality of many/some cis girls.
is absolutely retarded, and anyone who still pushes that shitty moser study is braindead

not to mention changing these >Isn't AGP just discredited pseudoscience?
No, AGP is a real phenomenon. Blanchard's Typology which included AGP is disputed, but that people experience AGP is indisputable.

>Does AGP mean you're not trans or repressed trans?
to objectively shittier and less informative versions
and this
>>Am I AGP?
>Share your experiences.
is utterly pointless

>>7708427

Is anyone else turned on by the idea of being thicc and sitting on your bf's face? Imagining him eating my pussy from under me is hot.

>>7711304
They prompt discussion.

>>7711326
no! femdom is gross. >>7711183

>>7711365

I'm actually >>7711198, so I find submission hot too. But I love the idea of acting like I'm a guy's mommy and treating him like a little boy as well.

>>7711457
small world! i love how kinky agps are.

>But I love the idea of acting like I'm a guy's mommy and treating him like a little boy as well.
please explain.

perhaps i'm too insecure in my submission and it makes me scared of being dominant.

>>7710469
Sex drive is a factor of hormones and psychology.

Female hormones (lower T level, higher T level) lead to a naturally lower sex drive than male ones (more T).

Psychologically men and women compensate to account for their natural levels, leaving them with the same level.

HRT for MTFs reduces sex drive to the female level, and the mind used to compensating for the male level can't keep up and keeps compensating downwards, leaving the MTF with a lower sex drive than even a cis female.

>>7711486

>please explain

Things like putting him to bed by a certain time and acting like he's too young to take care of himself. Cuddling him as the big spoon. I also want to roleplay taking his virginity and teaching him how to make love to a woman. Buying him a video game for good behavior once in a while and playing with his dick as he plays, teasingly building up his sexual frustration, then finishing him up with a blowjob and making sure he gets it all in Mommy's mouth. Resting his head on my lap and singing him to sleep would be nice too, if testosterone hadn't mutilated my singing voice. But whispering comforting things to him could work like, "Go to sleep and have sweet dreams, baby. And when you wake up, Mommy will be right here for you."

>perhaps i'm too insecure in my submission and it makes me scared of being dominant.

I was actually wondering if I was a bit odd for being into both.

>>7711702
sounds comfy. not exactly dominant, just in charge. but for me i'd only want to be on the other side anyway.

>I was actually wondering if I was a bit odd for being into both.
probably, i expect insecurity about not being submissive is common.

How do you stop fapping to sissy/agp stuff? This is driving me crazy.
Like I've been doing it my entire life and I can barely even get off anymore without thinking about wanting to be a girl.
I always read erotica about sissy stuff or just tg stuff and am obsessed with women's clothes and stuff. Like at this point I can pretty much fap to wedding dresses it's getting ridiculous lol

>>7711989
i've never got off to anything else.
but i can read erotica that's just about being a girl, not tg.

>>7711998
I sort of can, but I don't really like vagina stuff. Like even when I watch porn I can't watch vaginal stuff.
I don't really like shemale stuff though, I don't like gigantic gross dicks

>>7712017
>watching porn
maybe you aren't beyond hope.

>>7712070
I actually used to hardly ever watch porn when I was younger. It's kind of a new thing for me.
I just used to read erotica and when I fapped I only ever used a dildo and just fapped in the shower.

I think me watching porn and reading more erotica is actually making things worse though. I've been trying not to do it and just going back to how I fapped when younger. I wouldn't say my life was that amazing back then either but from a sexual perspective I think I was doing better.

>>7712088
>I think me watching porn and reading more erotica is actually making things worse though.
how come?

>>7712094
I just feel like I'm more reliant on it now to fap and get off. I used to be able to just have normal gay thoughts and like 90% of the time I fapped I never looked at anything or read anything, but all I really fap to is like tg erotica and stuff now and I find it hard to get off without some sort of additional stimulus.

>>7712112
wait you're gay2agp? how does that make sense if agp is straight sexuality turn inwards?

>>7712137
Well I'm maybe bi I dunno. I can watch straight porn I just tend to gravitate away from vagina stuff.
I've never really had any success with girls, tried once but was too drunk to have sex and just passed out lol
I tried to date a guy once but it still felt kind of weird but it was probably as good as I can get to actually satisfying fetishes and whatnot considering like the majority of the time I fap I use dildos and such and can barely get off without ass stuff. I'm not hugely into guys though, but I still don't have much problems getting horny with them just on the premise of I know I'll get butt play haha

>>7710969
>Not transitioning? I'm not. I don't get dysphoria over my dick but I still wish I could be cis female.
I'm not sure how your reply is related to my post but I'm happy for you.

>>7711037
>wtf lesbians get agp now?!
I can fap to this.

>>7711094
>debilitating jealousy towards women
Any ill feelings in me towards ciswomen are unrelated to my gynophilia.

>>7711989
>tfw sissy stuff is the only place thats preventing you from falling into another existential crisis
>tfw it's the only place they tolerate unpassing cds with on and off agp dysphoria

>>7711305
>Isn't this basically just a crossdressing general?
Do biological interventions count as crossdressing?

>>7711633
>Sex drive is a factor of hormones and psychology.
I don't even count the psychological factor because it so lacks any substance. A psychologically based sex drive is nothing more than another type of entertainment. Treating sex as entertainment is what makes ciswomen so vain and terrible. Even someone completely lacking physiological sexual responses such as erection and orgasm can pursue sexual activities, reducing sex to seduction, games and rituals. People like this take the sex out of "sex". People without penis can get away with it because no one can see their physiological impotence. Psychological "sexuality" is false sexuality.

>Female hormones (lower T level, higher E* level) lead to a naturally lower sex drive than male ones (more T). HRT for MTFs reduces sex drive to the female level.
Only because your definition of "female" is "low testosterone". You and your MTFs identify "female" with "immature". It's a sadomasochistic gender paradigm. (Feminists call it "patriarchal" because they envy men their sadistic role in this paradigm. I don't.)

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AGP questions and answers
>Thoughts and feelings / emotions
>Help, advice, guidance
>Be cozy and chill out

>What is AGP?
Autogynephilia, from Greek αὐτό- ("self"), γυνή ("woman") and φιλία ("love"). Broadly, arousal to the thought of being a woman. It can take many forms - being aroused at imagining or seeing yourself with a female body, dressing in clothes that make you appear feminine, acting in stereotypical "feminine" ways, or others.

>Isn't AGP just discredited pseudoscience?
No, you might be thinking of Blanchard's Typology, which includes the idea of AGP. Regardless of whether or not you agree with Blanchard's ideas, AGP is very real to the people who experience it.

>I'm AGP, does this mean I'm not trans?
No, you can be AGP and trans.

>Aren't you all just trannies in denial?
Some people with AGP will go on to transition, while others are content with incorporating it into their sex life or simply the occasional indulgence. It varies greatly in intensity. If AGP consumes a lot of your mental energy or causes you lots of distress, it is probably worth asking more questions.

>>7708895 >>7711263 >>7708427 >>7680366
>i always remind before the end of a thread
1. Like I said, "I can't find change proposal in the last thread".
2. I have just found a copy of your pruned thread OP in the entrails of my electronic brain. Doing for you what you continue to fail to do: posting it. (Also fixed a hanging new line.)

>>7713079
>It's a sadomasochistic gender paradigm.
you say this every thread but you can't name a single thing wrong with wanting to be sub and make a guy feel powerful.

>>7713299
I'm actually the one responsible for that failure of a thread, not that poster. I've failed them by jumping the gun. I really wanted to post that cool lady though. She's really cool.

>>7713335
>you can't name a single thing wrong with wanting to be sub and make a guy feel powerful.
Maybe I can, maybe I can't. I'm not sure whether I need to, as calling things by their name alone is important enough for me.

So let's reiterate: sexuality and gender notions of white people (a.k.a. the "patriarchal" sexuality, where "female" is equated with "weak, obedient, small and immature") are sadomasochistic. They are a heritage of many generations of rape culture.

I don't need to condemn it, even though I find it disgusting. What I do condemn is attempts to equate sexuality with sadomasochism and systematic suppression non-sadistic sexuality especially as a part of everyone's ubringing.

But I could condemn sadomasochism itself VERY EASILY by simply saying that's it's UNHEALTHY. Sadomasochism is fundamentally pathological because it's a fetish of suffering. It's anti-sexuality.

>>7713519
>tfw you're an actual sadomasochist
I never asked for this. I wish I wasn't like this.

>>7713544
I don't want to change you. But you can try exploring physical pleasure instead of domination. Or, to borrow from the "patriarchal" vocabulary: be a wanker.

>>7713519
>where "female" is equated with "weak, obedient, small and immature"
what's unhealthy about seeing myself this way?

>>7713613
You're seeing yourself as lesser, and are telling other women they're lesser too. This is wrong.

>>7713613
Illness is what makes you weak. Wanting to be weak is spiritual illness.

>>7713649
Thank you.

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>>7713519
>tfw Western society brainwashed me into enjoying being weak and immature and obedient
Neat. Even the non-AGP can learn something from these threads.

>>7713721
At least you are open-minded and honest. I like you because of that, my weak anon.

>non-AGP
Are you cisfemale or trutrans?

>>7713728
Trutrans.

I grew up in a conservative household where any deviation from the feminine ideal was seen as disgusting and worthy of mockery. I think even if I wanted my sexuality to be different than it is, I'd feel too shameful and disgusting to act on it. Feels kinda bad that I've basically been programmed from young age for the sexual gratification of men.

>>7713649
>You're seeing yourself as lesser,
>This is wrong.
i am lesser.

>and are telling other women they're lesser too.
no i'm not.

>>7713705
i am spiritually weak, so it's only natural for me to want a relationship that acknowledges that.

>>7713751
>no i'm not
Well, if you're not arguing that this is fundamentally what women are like then do what you want I guess.

>>7713748
You should live with me. I would make you strong and beautiful.

>>7713751
My idea of love is making someone stronger. So it seems you'd hate a relationship with me :).

>I'm not telling other women they're lesser.
Well, you do that when you think that big women are masculine or when you call yourself AGP.

>>7713762
i'm not. most women are but good on the ones who aren't.

>>7713779
>My idea of love is making someone stronger. So it seems you'd hate a relationship with me :).
i'd like a lover who makes me stronger. but they'd have to accept i might stay weak.

>Well, you do that when you think that big women are masculine or when you call yourself AGP.
but i am agp and strong women are more like men.

>>7713779
>You should live with me. I would make you strong and beautiful.
Aww, that's a cute sentiment.
If someone said something like that to me irl they'd prolly become my favorite person, I've never know anyone who would care to see me be a stronger person.

>>7713751
>i am spiritually weak, so it's only natural for me to want a relationship that acknowledges that.
This tbqh. I'm weak af, I want to submit myself to someone far better than me.

>>7713803
>I'm weak af, I want to submit myself to someone far better than me.
exactly. being stronger is a dream that might come true one day. right now i want someone better to follow and guide me and to please.

is this how cis girls feel?

>>7713748
Out of curiousity, and by no means is this meant as a subtle "go away", why are you here?

>>7713840
I'm super bored, so I decided to see what even happens in these threads. I was expecting more hons. The topic right now is something I find really interesting, I feel like too few people are willing to critically examine sexuality. It's kind of sacred and untouchable, even in liberal circles.

>>7713831
Same desu. I want someone who will help me become better but accept that I might not be able. I feel(/hope) that most guys are okay with this, though I feel like a lot of scummy and traditional guys want to sabotage this.

A few cis girls I know felt this way, and I know some female family members feel this way.

>>7713748
>Feels kinda bad that I've basically been programmed from young age for the sexual gratification of men.
it's pretty ironic, getting indoctrinated to be the big strong guy and have women submit themselves to you, only to flip it around and want to submit.

>>7713853
i don't think many guys would be capable of helping me at least. but as long as they accept that and i can help them in my way, supportive but not leading.

>>7713867
>it's pretty ironic, getting indoctrinated to be the big strong guy and have women submit themselves to you, only to flip it around and want to submit
I was never really into women like that, and I never really identified as a guy, so I never had such a reversal. Honestly I have a kinda sour opinion of men because as a teenager guys would obviously try to talk to me about lewd stuff and I'd always think they are the most disgusting people ever. I'm glad I was never brainwashed into the sadistic male way of thinking about sex. I imagine it's really jarring to switch if you actually bought into it.

>but as long as they accept that and i can help them in my way, supportive but not leading
Most men want a weak partner, it makes them seem better by comparison. So you should be fine.

>>7713875
>I was never really into women like that, and I never really identified as a guy, so I never had such a reversal.
i didn't mean a conscious switch, just a switch in how it was interpreted. i never wanted to be dominant even when i thought i was cishet. i doubt a conscious switch happens even for agps.

>I'm glad I was never brainwashed into the sadistic male way of thinking about sex.
what do you mean?

>Most men want a weak partner, it makes them seem better by comparison. So you should be fine.
but i want a man who really is better. in fact wanting me to be weak just to make him seem better is bad. i want him to want to nurture me and respect me where i deserve it.

>>7713800
>>7713853
>i'd like a lover who makes me stronger. but they'd have to accept i might stay weak.
That's alright, I'm a forgiving God :). As long as you are not hurting yourself on purpose.

>>7713803
>If someone said something like that to me irl they'd prolly become my favorite person.
It's a pity that we are mere anons without names, isn't it? Alas, we are what we are. We can't change the fact that we come from 4chan. Nobody chooses their parents.

>>7713910
>As long as you are not hurting yourself on purpose.
i probably am subconsciously. the thought of submission is addictive.

>Alas, we are what we are.
you can say that again.

>>7713915
>i probably am subconsciously.
I would probably handle it by acting like your psychotherapist, i.e. by helping you become aware of it when you do this. This would give you choice and control.

>>7713946
that's what i would like. someone to alert me to it and help me understand it and learn how to be different. but i'd need to know i'd still be loved even if i failed to.

This thread has achieved nirvana.

Everyone fell in love with everyone.

404 :)

>>7713972
No because cool german girl isn't here and I'm sad about it sorry no nirvana allowed.

>>7713978
I get it.

We must delay nirvana.

How can I know for sure if I'm agp?

>>7713978
>cool german girl
please explain this

>>7713987
Would you want sex with a feminine you?

>>7714012
she was cool and german and a girl and I miss her

>>7714030
>and a girl
so aap or what?

>>7714032
wow rude
she transitioned and lived The Good Life

The only "problem" with AGP is that healthcare is based on repressive Puritan ethics which condemns pleasure, so every AGP must pretend to be suicidal trutrans just to get access.

>>7714039
>tldnr Trutrans is a byproduct of repressive Puritan ethics.

Have you noticed that we have far fewer posters in the thread than usual? We used to balance out at 40-70. Now we have 14.

Also, how do I deal with having to repress until technology advances to the point where it can save ur-hons like me?

>>7714039

>implying most AGPs aren't suicidal by the time they start hormones

The only exception I've seen so far was the redhead from the last thread.

>>7716065
With trans becoming increasingly acceptable, there will be more and more AGPs like her. Plenty will still wait until they are severely depressed or suicidal though.

>>7714039
You can just self-med though.

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So basically I'm very AGP and I plan on transitioning. My face is already somewhat feminine so I think I'll pass fine, but when I came out to my mom as trans she didn't understand how it was possible that I was trans if I was never effeminate. My mom is unfamiliar with AGP and she thinks that the only legitimate trans people are the ones who fit into the trutrans narrative. I want to send my mom some sources to explain to her what AGP is. Do you guys know any straightforward, sympathetic, and non-memetic sources to send to a normie like my mom who doesn't know what AGP is?

>>7717804
PS.
It could also be helpful if one of you could type up a brief explanation of what AGP is that would explain it to someone who has never heard of it.

>>7717804
>>7717827

Yeah, I have no intention of telling my parent's of the existence of AGP, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else either. I did plan on it before, but I decided not to since I was going to talk about how I don't believe parts of the AGP theory are true. So why explain something I'm going to partially debunk? Instead, I've got some moments where I seemed gay or girlish to other people, and those people told me so.

My parents aren't reliable in terms of being able to judge what I am anyway, since up until I came out my father thought I was going to be a priest and the only times I ever talk with them have been one-sided lectures where they can't learn anything about me. That pretty much tosses the validity of any assessment either parent has of me in the trash. The few things they have said about me while having a leg to stand on in saying them is that I'm stubborn and a depressed stick in the mud. Though in the back of my mind, I think my mother and grandmother did have an inkling I wasn't straight. There's a good chance I'm wrong about that, but that's the feeling I get.

>>7717804
I would say don't bother explaining AGP, just saying not all trans people are effeminate and gender non-conforming as children.

Talk about people who repressed for decades before becoming hons or killing themselves, but who acted as men before that. They always wanted to be female just like you and you don't wan to end up like Jenner.

there are some days where i wish i could just say fuck literally EVERYONE else and just transition even if hit hon status at 6'1 with huge shoulders and just enjoy living for the first time in 25 years

but its only when im drunk or high i feel this way

you know what fuck it im gonna schedule a psychiatrist tomorrow and do just that

if im gonna kill myself, i might as well try to live and burn all bridges and lose everyone by making myself happy by transitioning anyway right because i have nothing to lose

>>7718260
wow. report back on how it goes.

>>7717804
NORMIES DON'T UNDERSTAND AGP ABORT ABORT ABORT
Normies can barely handle "I'm trapped inside the wrong body!" transness. They can't deal with the truth.

>>7718260
That's incredibly brave. Good luck! I believe in you!

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Hey Humans! Kind anon directed me here after i started a thread at >>7718578

So I have really found the idea of femboyism appealing. I'm a 33 year old 6'2 skinny cis male but I hope you understand that I have often thought of living as a female. Where do I go for some guidance, or a sounding board, or even some real talk with people I know understand where I am coming from?

>>7718645
I'll run you through the standard gamut of questions. You don't necessarily have to answer us, and we won't necessarily have anything useful to say in response, but answering these questions to yourself is useful and we might still be able to give you our own thoughts if you do tell us the answers.

Were you a gender conforming child? Teenager? Adult?
When did you first feel the desire to be a woman? How did it develop over time? Were there any preludes to it?
When did you first experience arousal at the thought of femininity? How did it develop over time? Were there any preludes to it? What aspects do you usually focus on in your sexual fantasies?
If you continue living your life as you are, without outwardly addressing your gender issues, do you think you could be happy on the long term? Why or why not?
If you could act and be treated like a woman with no negative repercussions and everyone you cared about were accepting of that but you had to live with your body as it is would you be happy? Why or why not?
If you could magically turn yourself into a woman and people would accept you having that sort of body but treat you as and call you a man would you be happy? Why or why not?
Would having both the social role and the body of a woman make you happy?
In your view, what does it mean to be a man or a woman?

>>7718702

I will answer the best I can

>Were you a gender conforming child? Teenager? Adult?
I felt the need to live up to my fathers expications, must have be 7.
>When did you first feel the desire to be a woman?
The first time I felt the desire I was young, 7 or 8, the memory that sticks out to me and to this day I have no idea why he asked but my father said "Do you want to be a girl?" I was startled and instinctively said no but imitatively regretted the responds
>How did it develop over time?
Wearing stockings and other things of my sister, sexual experimentation.
>Were there any preludes to it?
My father asking me the above must be the first but the strongest was the first time an older guy tried to pick me up, i was about 16 at the time.
>When did you first experience arousal at the thought of femininity?
Early, I was very sexually curious but did not learn to masturbate till I was like 12, before that I had imagined it when I was alone and could act out a little more.
How did it develop over time? IRC chartrooms exploring my feminine side and not much else.
>What aspects do you usually focus on in your sexual fantasies?
Being penetrated, I have not put myself in a masculine role since forever.
(cont.)

>>7718740
>If you continue living your life as you are, without outwardly addressing your gender issues, do you think you could be happy on the long term?
I can't be sure
>Why or why not?
As time goes on i seem to question it more and more
>If you could act and be treated like a woman with no negative repercussions and everyone you cared about were accepting of that but you had to live with your body as it is would you be happy?
Yes
>Why or why not?
This is the core of my inability to explore these concepts, I had often through if family was not an issue I could easily explore this, hell I think I might be reaching that point tonight.
>If you could magically turn yourself into a woman and people would accept you having that sort of body but treat you as and call you a man would you be happy? No
>Why or why not? I do not find this idea appealing.
>Would having both the social role and the body of a woman make you happy?
Ah, no. But to be honest I have never really felt masculine.
>In your view, what does it mean to be a man or a woman?
For me, to be blunt, a state of mind.

>>7718759
Interesting that the social role of a woman would make you happy but physically being one wouldn't.

What is it about being treated as and being able to act as a woman that would make you happy? What specific treatment and freedom to act?

Why No to having the social role and body of a woman?

>>7718740
>>7718759
It sounds like your dysphoria is purely social. Is that right?

>>7718807
Wait thats not right, yes i would like being one. The damn reply window is so small and I was trying to do good formating so I may have slipped up. But If answer you query If i could physically be a woman I would be happy, sorry for any confusion

>>7718830
Oh okay haha. No worries. Just fix your answers in the next post for clarity.

>>7718840
I will do that now, sorry but i am bouncing back and forth between here and my original thread at >>7718578. Let me reread what i answered and clarify what i can. Point out or as any questions as you like.

So I have re-read the question that I thought I was confused on but stand by my answer. Reply as follows.

>If you could magically turn yourself into a woman and people would accept you having that sort of body but treat you as and call you a man would you be happy? No
>Why or why not? I do not find this idea appealing.

To elaborate on this simply physically looking like a woman is not the same as as thinking and acting like a woman. I fell this question does not take in consideration the bias that estrogen causes to make a MtF start thinking like a female... I could be dead wrong on this and i don't mean to offend anyone.

>>7718937
and to expand on that point, even though I can picture myself as a woman and pretend to put myself in these situations where I act out a female role in my head it is not the same as, uh, nurochemicaly responding or thinking as a human under the bias of female hormones.

>>7718937
I see. So having a female body is not something you value, or is it just something you do not value by itself? Would you agree with the statement that you only value having a female body insomuch as that it helps you blend in and be accepted as someone who "acts and thinks like a woman"? If you could have a female body, have everyone accept that, and be on hormones, would people not accepting or treating you like a woman still bother you?

Also see
>>7718807
>>7718825

>>7718943
this ultimately leads me to circle back to being an androgynous femboy.
Check it, I know being a tall and older are going to put me in the hon catagory (I find hon derogatory). But if you focus on just the body and not the mind then you are only really half transitioning, right?

>>7718951
I value having a female body, yes, but it is not the end all, be all. The female body would deff help being accepted among but i feel it would be imposable for me to achive to the degree that I would be comfortable with.... I would much more value the true prospective, being accepted among whatever peer group, as fringe as it may be.

>>7718943
Do you find the idea of being neurochemically feminine appealing or unappealing?

>>7718968
I would find it appealing. But I feel this could be expanded on.

>>7718951
>If you could have a female body, have everyone accept that, and be on hormones
If she had a female body she wouldn't need hormones.

>>7718966
You'd like both the body and to be treated as a girl, but the social role and being treated as a girl is more important?

Which parts of being treated like a girl/acting like one are most important to you?

>>7718986
>If she had a female body she wouldn't need hormones.
They made the distinction, so I clarified.

>>7718986
>You'd like both the body and to be treated as a girl, but the social role and being treated as a girl is more important?

I would have to say yes because ultimately physical appearance are simply superficial. I hold more value over the social and psychological aspects.

This also leads be back to the concept of femboy as physically its more of a gray area, but psychologically and socially it leans more towards feminine.

Please correct me if I am misinterpreting any of these concepts.

>>7718999
Sorry!

>>7719000
Which psychological/neurochemical aspects do you most want to experience?

>>7719017
I can't say, I would have to say all of them really because it would have to be a holistic experience to be truly experienced at all.

Gotta go for not but I'll be back later, I have enjoyed our conversation.

Hey AGP, confused human back.

So anyone in southeast PA care to talk to me? obviously this is getting complacated and I would would appericate a more one on one conversation with someone more wise then myself.

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Anyone here also have a thing for their dad?

>>7719904
I have to say no but i do like the dynamic of dating/being involved with guys older then myself.

Hello again /agpg/, anon who used to fap uncontrollably here. That part for the most part went away, but I'm still stuck and completely devoid of motivation to live life.

I had one therapy session, but at some point before then my gender issues seem to have vanished before we went, so we talked about other things most of the time and gender came up for about all of 7 minutes at the end. This was last week, and my next appointment is next week.

Cut to yesterday. My issues came back once more, and I didn't want to feel like I was constantly telling myself I was a man, so I decided to identify as a woman instead. I windowshopped for girl's clothes, acted more feminine, and it felt fulfilling for all of 30 seconds. Then I just felt empty.

When I got home I put on some of the girls clothes I did have, and as expected I fapped. Then instead of feeling male when I finished, I felt empty. I just laid there depressed pondering things. My night would switch between being depressed and fapping while staying in the clothes. All in all I want to say I fapped 7 times.

Then I woke up in the middle of the night and fapped again. Then I woke up for real, fapped once, laid there empty and depressed again, and fapped two more times after, each time after with a period of being empty and depressed. Then I got out of bed and despite my goal of trying out being a girl longer I changed back into my male clothes, and haven't fapped since.

I feel unsure if I am trans because all the transgirls I know feel some sort of clarity when they found their gender identity, but I just feel more of a mess no matter what I do. I just don't know what to do with myself...

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>>7719904
please be joking

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>>7719931
Sadly I am not... literally my father.

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>>7719935

>>7719928
Good to hear from you. Sorry to hear that you're struggling. Stick to therapy. Let the therapist know about how you're feeling next meeting. Try to avoid these self-destructive masturbatory sessions.

I don't know if you're trans but since you only dress up in secret and usually masturbate when doing so it is not really surprising that you just automatically associate it with sex.

i can't think of my future self as a man anymore :( this no longer a meme for me :((

>>7717804
>>7717827
I am coming from the field of neurology, not psychology, however to me agp is trans. The agp theory is just a poor pseudoscientific attempt to name some of the common symptoms of trans. What makes it different is how strong gender dysphoria or euphoria is if present at all. Think of agp as a little checkbox to fill on the trans spectrum, nothing more. The theory has no objective value and only creates confusion both in trans community and in general population.

Your trans spectrum has specific manifestation that doesn't have to fit every checkbox just because others feel it has to. The best source of information is your own brain. Use it to talk with her in a way she'll understand. If you have to, tell her your concerns about her misunderstanding and reassure her you know what you feel inside is not just a state of confusion. For all practical purposes your case doesn't need to differentiate agp and trans.

Make a good research about transitioning and make sure you know what you are going to do, whether the reason is your powerful euphoria or not. You will lose the feelings of agp during HRT and you'll always need testosterone to want to be sexual.

>>7719955
I masturbated after typing the original post, so that isn't going well. Being a girl feels wrong but the urges to be one won't go away at the same time. Does that make sense?

>>7718702
>Gender conforming child/teen/adult?
Yes
>First desire to be a woman? Develop over time? Preludes?
My first fap when I was 11 or so, I first crossdressed in private to fap when I was 13, I first dressed as a girl for halloween when I was 18. I'm guessing I found the episode of Yu-Gi-Oh where the Penguin guy would get to live in the girl's body if he won a duel to be pretty hot.
>First time aroused at the thought of femininity? Development/Preludes? What aspects do you focus on in sexual fantasies?
For the first three, see the first question. For the last one, I first focused on being a woman having sex with men, but now my thoughts are pretty much my mind hollering at me to transition so it can fulfill its sexual fantasies. The more I fap the worse it gets.
>If you continue life as you are without addressing gender issues, could you be happy?
Yes, because as a man I have some direction, some goals, some ambitions. When I identify as female it's just...sexual stuff or emptiness.
>Treated as a woman, male body?
I dunno, it'd feel really really weird. I feel like I would tell people I'm not a girl more often than not.
>Treated as a man, female body?
I wouldn't mind this one as much, but the female body would take a lot of getting used to, and perhaps never fully feel right. Maybe I'd like it better? Who knows
>Female role and body?
Eh, I would just feel lost because I would completely and absolutely be a girl.
>What does it mean to be a man?
To have willpower, strength, and determination to tackle obstacles in your way without giving a damn. To overcome hurdles and carve new paths out of them.
>To be a girl?
To be cute, flirty, feminine, motherly, things like that.

I'm aware you can be each as the other but these are my definitions.

>>7716518
Isn't self-med a crime in the "best" countries such as America? They put you in jail for selling hormones AND for possessing hormones.

>>7719904
Not me, I can be your surrogate dad though.

>TFW you come back to this thread and no (You)s

Stop oppressing me!

>>7721645

It's illegal, but unless you're buying a scheduled drug law enforcement does not give half a shit.

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>>7719904

I'm displeased to admit this, and I wouldn't quite call it a "thing." But I have something like that.

Back in middle school something started to happen when my father would sit down and talk with me. For some reason, I would keep getting intrusive thoughts about kissing my father. I think it also happened with my brother. It was hard to concentrate on what the fuck he was actually saying, I was just trying to kick those thoughts out of my head. Eventually they did stop. Years later, now he breathes heavily and it bothers me because it does something to me.

Why does this shit keep happening? I hate my father, he's the son of bitch who repressed me.

>>7720212

>I'm guessing I found the episode of Yu-Gi-Oh where the Penguin guy would get to live in the girl's body if he won a duel to be pretty hot.

I don't think I thought anything more about that duel than, "But wait, if he beats her in a duel, he's going to have a girl's body." I can't properly remember what I thought though, that's just a guess at what I might have thought. The English dub was apparently censored and he actually said some perverted shit about what he was going to do with her body in the Japanese dub. You're talking about that arc where they're all trapped in some kind of VR KaibaCorp game, where Kaiba's father or Kaiba shoved all the former execs, right?

>>7721955
Yeah, the anime-only filler arc with Noah. Tea loses in YGO the Abridged series and it goes full ham with it.

>>7722039

I never got that far with the Abridged series since YouTube keeps taking the episodes down. Either that or it stopped being funny to me at some point in the early episodes.

>>7721889
Sex steroids are "scheduled drugs", aren't they? Estrogens are sex steroids.

>>7725265
Testosterone is a schedule 3 drug, not estrogen. Literally no one gives a shit about estrogen.

>>7725281
>feminising our teenagers is okay
>masculinising them is a crime
Totally not conspiracy.

I experience a weird version of what I think is AGP.

For as long as I can remember, I've had a fetish for humiliation. (I can recall instances of this as a very young child) Weird thing is that unlike normal fetishes this was always the only way I could get aroused. I remember trying normal porn as an early teen and thinking that it was disgusting. Basically, I masturbated to an AGP-like fantasy of myself as a twinkish boy getting humiliated. At that time, I felt very guilty doing this so I started watching/reading erotica of women getting humiliated instead so that I don't feel like I'm doing something gay. (I was a young teen) However, even though I tried hard to repress it, I was identifying with the women and it felt better. A few years later I started getting dysphoria, which I knew nothing about and repressed until I gave in and started looking up trans stuff like two years later. Now I have no idea what to do.

How do you get over the self hate and the fact that having AGP invalidates your dysphoria and identity as a trans woman?

Like, I know I have dysphoria. I've been on hormones for 6 years and I still get depressed about my skeleton being so masculine. At the same time I feel everything about me is fake. I get gendered female in public all the time and everyone tells me I pass but I don't really believe them. I don't really think my dysphoria is sexually motivated at it's core, but I'm obviously lying or deluding myself because that doesn't fit with the typology, right? Tbh I have no clue and I can't even trust my own assessment about myself because of what the research says about people like me.

I admit, I don't regret transitioning at all. I'd rather off myself than go back to being a man. I'm just really depressed and ashamed that I fit more with the AGP group than the trutrans group. Tbh I often feel that I'm just a deluded straight man whose fetish took control of their life. At the same time, I don't really identify with all the non transitioning AGPs that are okay with being men or too scared to transition.

Idk I just really hate myself for having this. I feel like a fake woman and a fake tranny too. For example, I'm constantly paranoid and frequently worry about my mannerisms or sexual fantasies being male so I'm constantly regulating my behavior. I guess it doesn't matter cause apparently you can easily clock an AGP tranny simply by the way they walk and talk, no matter how much they train themselves.

>>7725679
You don't have to justify yourself to anyone else. You're happier having transitioned, and that's the end of it. You're your own person and your mannerisms and sexuality are personal and not anything you should be judged on.

The typology doesn't mean everything is sexually motivated anyway. Besides, trutrans are just gay men who transition because they're too flamboyant to fit in as guys and to get straight dudes :^)

>i will never a girl
>this means I will never be happy
>agp isn't going away
>over the past 5~ years I've slowly stopped enjoying anything
>now I just sit in my room sleeping and thinking about dying and doing nothing productive and thinking about death

should I kill myself , it won't get better

>>7725679
>but I'm obviously lying or deluding myself because that doesn't fit with the typology, right
The typology is unscientific bullshit rejected by every major scientific institution, including WPATH, the foremost authority on trans care. It is full of holes. Blanchard saw that a lot of late transitioners were autogynephiles and that a lot of early transitioners were more feminine as children and made the leap form that to two distinct types with mutually exclusive etiologies. According to Blanchard's typology straight MTFs are just gay men who are so gay they transitioned because they couldn't deal with being men while non-straight MTFs are literally in love with their inner woman because they locate her in themselves instead of in the outside world due to a neurological disorder. Mind, this includes both bisexuals and somehow even aesexuals. All of that from the data I've mentioned before, which he massaged anyhow by disregarding the self-reports of non-straight MTFs who said they didn't experience AGP. The Blanchardian answer for why transitioners who transitioned and lost their AGP are generally still happy as women is that HRT dampens one's sex drive to the point where AGP cannot persist but the individual is still in love with their inner woman, purely romantically. Beyond how bonkers that is it conflicts with the fact that those transwomen are still generally sexually active and thus quite evidently are still capable of being attracted to other people.

There IS a tiny minority of people who don't experience dysphoria and just transition as a fetish, and they generally regret it after transitioning because AGP eventually goes away. The fact that you are dysphoric and that you're happy with what you've done is proof enough that you are not one of them. Please don't let /pol/ards poison you with their outdated meme theories.

>>7725815
No! You might not get to be exactly who you want to be, but you can get fairly close. It CAN get better!

If I'm agp should I call myself trans for oppression points at uni

>>7725906
Well, are you trans? One can be AGP and not trans.

What are your thoughts on no hormone FFS?

I'd get lasor hair removal of course.

>>7725342

Have you decided that you want to transition?

>>7725906

Only call yourself MtF if you're transitioning. If you insist on getting those points without transition, call yourself non-binary or genderfluid.

>>7725701
Heh. Thanks for that, anon. Part of me thinks that I just worry to much about how others percieve me.

>>7725886
Yeah, I don't see how I can literally be romantically in love with myself as a woman. That's probably the one thing about the typology that I never bought into. If anything, I probably hate myself too much.

When I do see a woman in the mirror or happen to feel like one for whatever reason, I just feel happy and more confident in myself. There's also this weird sense of calm that I'm not sure how to describe, it kinda feels like a burden's been lifted off my shoulders I guess.

I am sexually active and I've dated other women that I've been enamored with, but I've never literally wanted to be them. Maybe sometimes I wanted to be more like them, like wishing I had a smaller shoe size, smaller frame, etc. When dating, all of my sexual fantasies involving my current partner revolved around them and whatever they were doing to me. Apparently a lot of AGPs tend to project themselves onto their romantic partners which can make relationships difficult. I've never really had that problem desu but I also never really dated anyone before transitioning.

>>7726658
Right, exactly. All of these things ought make you realize how dumb the typology is. People only push it because it fits their political agenda and even then they conveniently ignore any parts of it they don't like. Believe in yourself, not in discredited nonsense. Your life's already much better than what it was and it will keep getting better if you allow yourself to move forward.

>>7725886
>No! You might not get to be exactly who you want to be, but you can get fairly close. It CAN get better!


All I can think of is take hormones but I don't think hormones are a magic pill that will make everything better and make me not want to die.

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>>7725815
There is no greater suffering than not being a young girl and having an erection.

There is nothing more worthwhile that I can do with my life than wearing dresses and posting my girly selfies.

We must kill all Jews for that.

>>7727123
They generally aren't. A lot of people have a lot of different issues. Not wanting to die because of your gender is a great first step to happiness though, and transitioning can help with that. There's also therapy.

>>7726959
Yeah, I guess you're right. Thanks, anon.

>>7726211
I don't know, I've been in a period of questioning for quite a few months now. Sometimes I feel like I want to transition while other times I feel like I do not.

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Guess what kind of "therapy" I would receive if I were a little boy and I said that I was going to kill myself if people didn't let me use anabolic steroids to grow big penis and big muscles?

Why is feminisation of boys legal if masculinisation isn't?

>>7727519
Could it be because the "transgender" movement is eugenics in disguise?

Is its true function a stealthy genocide of liberal population, presented to them as their "liberation"?

Are anti-androgens for boys a poison in candy wrap?

How is the West different from the fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran in this regard?

>>7718260
>but its only when im drunk or high i feel this way
judgement on drugs is best judgement

>>7717804
eehhhhh just gonna say that normies do not get shit like this. at all.
i would not recommend telling normies about agp. it doesn't have to imply there is anything wrong with agp or anything, normies are just dumb and spooked

>>7725910
If she's AGP she can legitimately call herself trans. Even non-dysphoric AGP is probably a form of trans and for cis people AGP might as well be no different from trans.

>>7726211
>Only call yourself MtF if you're transitioning.
Why? You're still MtF if you don't transition.

>>7725910
>One can be AGP and not trans
What is the source of this nonsense? Blanchard?

>>7731022
Explain how you have to be trans to be agp.

>>7717804
you would probably be better served just sending them this http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

>>7731044
Explain how you have to be autist to be asperger. You see agp is just a pseudoscientific name for specific symptoms present in trans people. If you are a man and want to be penetrated as a woman during sex that's a part of your identity. Now the difference between people is always where they stand on the spectrum of trans and how powerful their euphoria and dysphoria is, if present at all..

How do you bring up agp feelings to a therapist? I'm so scared of being delegitamized and they're repulsed by the idea of me being s fetishist. I'm just so ashamed and upset about how much this makes me feel like and makes other people think that my dysphoria or my trans-ness is illegitimate.

>>7731552
you should be honest with your therapist
real trans people don't get agp feels

>>7730945
>Why? You're still MtF if you don't transition.

As long as she is MtF. If they don't transition for real, then they just look like a trender and make transgenderism look like a fad.

>>7731159
reading this makes me cry every time because I relate to it so much

>pretty sure I'm trans or trans + AGP
>too scared to do anything
>depression is getting very bad and really want to kill myself

I'm at the end of my rope and I really don't know what to do

>>7731638
That's complete bullshit. AGPs with dysphoria are trans by definition. You can be trans and experience AGP. GTFO with that false trutrans/AGP dichotomy. It's unscientific and harmful.

>>7708427
AGP ISNT REAL

>>7733211
i cried when i found it again and read it to post it here ;_;

>January 27, 2003

there should have been hope for me

>>7733359
yeah I read it years ago

still no hormones and deep in closet, there is no hope for me either


>tfw basically group 3 except I'm failing to succeed as a male and i like guys not girls

>>7733373
are you still hoping to make it/not be alone forever?

>>7731552

So your therapist told you they don't like fetishists?

>>7733359

The odd thing is that the first time I read it, I felt I had read it before as a kid. I'm not sure if I actually did, but that was the feeling I got. If I had then fuck my shit, I'm stupid.

I really want to die. Not so much kill myself, I don't think I'd do that. AGP honestly makes me want to.

It's really weird, suicide ideation is really not the same thing as being suicidal.

>>7734135
Not at all. Uve ink had one appointment. Im just scared

>>7733221
Get help, Anon.

>>7730945
>If she's AGP she can legitimately call herself trans. Even non-dysphoric AGP is probably a form of trans and for cis people AGP might as well be no different from trans.
Mind expounding?

>>7731022
>>7731505
For a lot of cis men AGP is just a fantasy and they have no true desire to live it out any more than people with rape fantasies actually want to get raped.

>>7735450
I, for one, really want you to live. Get well soon.

Saw some of the discussion and thought I would comment.

I definitely have AGP fantasies and am definitely not trans. For me it's purely a sexual kink, although definitely powerful. Beyond arousal, my desire to be feminine disappears.

I also don't care about dominance/submission to the extent that some do. The whole "worthless" thing in sissy porn is actually a turn off. I just like fantasizing about appearing as a woman and mostly giving oral. Anal sometimes.

I consider myself mostly straight, am not attracted to men unless they are extremely feminine, and am comfortable with my gender. I just have a fixation on the male member, a semen fetish, and enjoy feminizing.

It took years getting to this particular fetish, and now almost all fapping involves some aspect of it. I don't know if this helps those trying to clarify these terms and concepts in the thread, but I thought I'd give my honest, personal contribution.

>>7740957
>It took years getting to this particular fetish, and now almost all fapping involves some aspect of it.
How did it develop? I've never fapped to anything else.

I'll just list my progression of porn habits. Keep in mind I had severely limited access to the internet until I went to college:

As a young teen I liked lesbian porn predominantly. Now it's not much of a turn on.

Then I progressed to primarily watching fellatio as an older teen/very young adult. I noticed that I was pretending to be her a lot of the time. This was the status for a while.

Then I hit my semen fetish. It's primarily an oral fetish. The thought of an oral creampie, snowballing, swallowing just drives me nuts. I don't know why, but this hits me harder than anything else.

Then probably within the last couple years, I stumbled accidentally upon my first sissy hypno vid, and it positively entranced me. I had vague interests in CD sort of stuff for a while, but nothing had really captured my "niche" so to speak. This hit like a ton of bricks.

Ever since then, I've been basically enraptured by it. When the feminization and oral/semen fetishes collided, it was extremely powerful and now controls my sexual fantasies almost exclusively.

I can still fap to straight porn identifying as the male, but I've noticed that it's the rare moon when that happens. I mostly do it to the fetishes I've mentioned.

>>7737792
>For a lot of cis men AGP is just a fantasy and they have no true desire to live it out any more than people with rape fantasies actually want to get raped.
That doesn't disprove anything I've said. I myself have agp as a straight man, I don't want to transition and I am happy I have it. Just because my symptoms are not powerful enough to make me transition doesn't mean I am not somewhere on the spectrum.

>>7742047
what is agp like for you as a nondysphoric normie (i guess)

>>7741233

I always found those sissy hypno vids kinda cringey, other hypno stuff is a total turn on though especially those audio files which are more of a story than just fap material, i also like erotic literature but it's a bit harder to pirate and you won't immediately know if you'll like it.

I think i'm not really AGP because i don't get turned on from the thought of being a female or from wearing female clothes(i still love to wear them) but in porn and stuff i imagine i'm the female, probably biggest turn on is imagining being fucked by a strap-on. Maybe i'm just a transbian :c

>>7743571
I find sissy stuff cringe too. I want to imagine actually being a girl, not a sissy.

Can you recommend some story audio files and literature?

Your porn habits are possibly still a kind of AGPm depending on definition. But that doesn't mean you aren't trans/dysphoric.

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I don't lurk that much on this board, so I've made a thread asking for advice; I got some, but an Anon told me to come here. I'm just gonna paste it from my thread:

>be me 13 yo me
>tried to masturbate to some pretty lady on the magazine
>didn't work
>try again, but for some reason imagine i am the pretty lady this time
>myfirsterection.exe
>always masturbate this way, but upgraded to gender bender hentai over time
>tell myself the "it's just a phase" meme
>trying to get a gf, always rejected
>say "fuck it" and decide to focus on vidya instead
>be 26 now
>always fap to sissy/gender bender comics and hentai

How do I stop this? I will never be able to pass, so transitioning is not an option. Does anyone knows a way to repress this and make it go away? I've been trying for years.

The lowcap Blanchard AAP triggers me so fucking hard because he never actually debates me. He just spews his dogma, I argue against it and he never responds. Probably because he can't, but that doesn't stop people from believing him. It feels exactly like arguing with climate change deniers.

>>7748730
He's an FTM AGP, not AAP. Next time I see him I'll point him to your post here. /agpg/ is the place for this debate.

>>7748737
I've responded to his posts dozens of times by now. I don't see him answering me.

>>7748761
We'll see. What is your argument against that Blanchard view?

>>7748768
I wrote a few regarding ETLEs over the past few days.
>>7713871
>>7719218

The consistent mistake Blanchard makes, again and again, is insisting that if A and B often show up in tandem then it is reasonable to say A causes B, without considering the possibility that B might cause A, or that hidden cause C is behind both A and B. This is not proper science. You can't proclaim something as a fact or even a theory if it is just a hypothesis.

The data Blanchard has gathered showed that straight MTFs tend to be more gender non-conforming as children, tend to transition earlier and tend to have AGP far less often (yes, less often, not never if you consider the self-reports he dismissed as fraudlent because they did not fit his theory) than non-straight MTFs. The rest is indefensible interpolation which was only accepted because social sciences don't give a fuck about rigor.

With that said I think it might be time for me to just give up on fighting misinformation on 4chan. It takes a toll on me and it feels like I hardly ever actually help anyone. Maybe I should go elsewhere.

>>7748817
Can we email? I don't want to miss out on your thoughts on AGP just because you stop posting here.

>>7748817
Also >>7748879

>>7748737
>Next time I see him I'll point him to your post here. /agpg/ is the place for this debate.
NO PLEASE DON'T DO THIS

>>7748918
Too late, but why not? It's an AGP topic.

>>7748923
such an argument is best suited in its own thread. you don't see these kinds of arugments in other threads. additionally, if its the same person that i'm thinking of, that person shit the fuck out of this gen until it finally ran off, and i hope we don't encourage it back

>>7748949
>it
pls no bully

>>7748949
What happened? I find him very informative.

Does anyone here have any information on facial asianization surgery?

>>7718702
Sorry for the long post but this might end up being 1/3
>Were you a gender conforming child? Teenager? Adult?
Yes and no. I don't remember any specific moments of trying to act like a girl as a child but I do remember hating sports, which I still can't get into, and disliking rough and tumble play. As a teenager I got really quiet and shy and became kind of a loner in high school and all my interests were pretty androgynous
>When did you first feel the desire to be a woman? How did it develop over time? Were there any preludes to it?
Before puberty but don't remember how early. Mostly just remember having vague feelings of really wanting to know what it was like to be a girl and at times having early thoughts of genital dysphoria
>When did you first experience arousal at the thought of femininity? How did it develop over time? Were there any preludes to it? What aspects do you usually focus on in your sexual fantasies?
For bout as long as I've been jacking off, so early puberty. Don't remember anything specific triggering it and I never looked at porn on my own or at least I rarely did and it was only at pics of naked celebs as far as I remember. At first it was just me as a female,sometimes masturbating, now it's always me as a female getting fucked and caressed by a guy.

>>7750670
>If you continue living your life as you are, without outwardly addressing your gender issues, do you think you could be happy on the long term? Why or why not?
Not sure. I owe it to myself to see a therapist. At this moment I think I could do alright living as a guy but at the same time I know I'd still be haunted by AGP thoughts.
>If you could act and be treated like a woman with no negative repercussions and everyone you cared about were accepting of that but you had to live with your body as it is would you be happy? Why or why not?
I don't know. That would probably just feel kind of weird to me.
>If you could magically turn yourself into a woman and people would accept you having that sort of body but treat you as and call you a man would you be happy? Why or why not?
I think that'd be cool with me. I might get a little miffed at being called a man though.
>Would having both the social role and the body of a woman make you happy?
Body yes. Social, I feel inclined to say no but it's hard to say for sure since I haven't really tried to live in a female role.
>In your view, what does it mean to be a man or a woman?
Essentially what >>7718759 said

>>7750670
>>7750708

Also, to add to the second question I did experiment with crossdressing for a time as a teenager trying on my mom's clothes and makeup. While there was at least a little arousal involved it was mainly motivated by a desire just to know what women's clothes felt like and how I would look in them.

>>7745845
>my life goals since 13
>to repress everything I like

>tfw when you finally start crossdressing regularly but then move to a freezing cold city so your wardrobe is limited to wooly jumpers

>>7743194
>what is agp like for you as a nondysphoric normie (i guess)
As I've said it many times I don't think agp exists. Yes the symptoms are very real, the diagnosis however is not. For the purpose of this discussion I will use the term as a shortcut.

I have a few things to say about me before I go into the agp territory. I consider myself a heterosexual. I am attracted to women and they are attracted to me. I want to romantically invest into relationships with women, share intimacy, vulnerabilities and joys of life with them.

I have a powerful empathy. I suspect this empathy is a well developed facial pattern recognition. My breathing and heart rate changes to accomodate the interaction and I can feel people's emotions. These foreign emotions are very powerful concepts of the same quality as anything of my origin.

When I am alone I can entertain the idea of me being a woman. Despite being a very tall and masculine man I can imagine having a smaller female frame and being dominated by a man. It's not romantic, it's sexual. He would dominate me and get a satisfaction from my body. In a sense he would be dominated by his urges to have me.

When I am with my female partner it's like having sex twice at the same time. I experience sex as a man who is dominating (or being dominated by) my girlfriend but I also experience sex as a woman inside me. Since my empathy is so powerful I can feel her emotions and even physical senses as my own and eventually her and my orgasm as my own experience. The combination of my powerful empathy and agp is perfect since I know exactly what the woman wants and get twice as much pleasure from it. And I sometimes indulge myself in cannabis to make the experience even more profounding.

Check out this thread.
>>7752051

>>7754298
Good thread.

It may help elucidate the difference between AGP and non-AGP ("trutrans").

>>7754344
which bits do you think are most important?

>>7754445
Bits of what? Important for what? For passing as a woman? Or for arousing heterosexual men?

Here are the bits that arouse me: curves.

"Curves" include all hanging body parts such as breasts, buttocks, muscles and penis. But only healthy parts; they exclude malignant parts such as tumours or fat folds.

A pretty face helps but isn't priority.

>>7754491
of that thread

>>7754497
1. It's not ended yet. Isn't it too early for summary?
2. I don't read everything.

>>7754536
just out of what you have read from what is there yet. later we can point out other important bits.

>>7754543
This >>7752529

>>7754543
I'll be a pompous egoist and say its pretty interesting from my post onwards.
>>7754261

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>tfw Blanchard thinks you shouldn't transition if you aren't dysphoric enough

>>7755173
He waves that PhD around like it's his dick.

/Random transdude decides to see what's in /lgbt/ on a whim at 4am.
/Finds this thread.
Wtf have I stumbled into I've never even heard of 90% of this shit. Can someone give me the condensed for stupids version of what the frick people are talking about here?

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>>7709293
>born male
>transitions to female
>fantasizes about being male

>>7711097
then take hormones idiot
it's your body, if you don't like the direction it's going in, fucking change it. we have the technology.

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>>7755173
blanchard's twitter is a wasteland and if i ever meet the man, after thanking him profusely for his great and tireless research, i will punch him in the face
however i think that tweet may be rendered contextless by a generation gap
when someone's talking about a mildly dysphoric agp i'm not picturing an actual transsexual woman, i'm picturing a transvestite or someone else at a much earlier stage on the not-quite-inevitable agp progression path -- someone unlikely to even pursue srs
and he's talking about srs specifically, not hrt or social transition

>>7755206
Another poster here but I wish I were as brave as you. I care far too much about what other people think. If I transitioned and someone questioned my legitimacy I think I'd shatter into a thousand pieces there and then. I can debunk all of the nonsense theories about what I am but I can't actually tell anyone what I am because I don't know, and the truth might not be pleasant. I keep telling myself that I'm staying in the closet because I have no chance to pass but maybe I'd still repress even if I could pass perfectly because of that doubt.

>>7755213
>when someone's talking about a mildly dysphoric agp i'm not picturing an actual transsexual woman, i'm picturing a transvestite or someone else at a much earlier stage on the not-quite-inevitable agp progression path
You're being just as vague as he is. What is an "actual transsexual woman" in terms of dysphoria strength?

>>7755199
AGP is sexual arousal at the idea of yourself as a woman. A lot of MtFs have it. It can be alongside "normal" gender dysphoria or it can just be a fetish (though even in that case it can get very intrusive, as you'll see if you lurk here enough).

The researcher that codified AGP also said a whole lot of other bullshit and his research was poorly done, so AGP as a concept tends to get falsely associated with his shit, which leads people to misunderstand it (even more than they already do). Like, he said that all MtFs fall into 2 groups: everyone who is attracted to women at all is AGP (regardless of whether or not they actually experience AGP arousal; if they say they don't then they're just lying), and all exclusively androphilic MtFs are just gay men who are so gay they have to be female.

Despite that, he did support transition for AGPs, which is something even a lot of people now don't support, instead considering it to invalidate them, despite the fact that APGs can experience the same dysphoria as any other type of MtF.

People disagree on the details, like whether the dysphoria is caused by the AGP or vice versa, and on how strictly transsexuals can be divided into "types".

>>7755173
>tfw Blanchard is a living person
>tfw Blanchard thinks what I think
He wrote a book, right?
Living people don't write books, right?

>>7755767
>Living people don't write books, right?
???

>>7755599
Powerful!
Saved.

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>>7755772
>???
Please, also show me the Twitter account of Cicero. I have a few issues to settle with him. Thanks in advance.

>>7755823
Science and technology are advancing faster than ever. The people who write all of those papers don't just disappear after writing them.

>>7755767
>Blanchard thinks what I think
What exactly?

>>7755855
That's exciting! I had lost hopes that I would witness any significant change during my lifetime. I sure will book an on-line consultation with Sigmund Freud!

>>7755872
>What exactly?
That SRS is a valid choice only for the most dysphoric.

>>7755888
>implying Freud has shit on most modern psychologists
Nice trips though. Witnessed.

>>7708427
also I'm super late but I approve of the OP image choice.

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>>7755823
>>7755855
>the Twitter account of Cicero

>>7755173
>you shouldn't transition if you aren't dysphoric enough
like literally everyone else ever?

>>7756691
If someone is mildly dysphoric I think they shouldn't be prevented from transitioning just because they aren't suffering as much.

>>7756703
1. he doesn't say they should be prevented
2. maybe you have different ideas of what "mild/moderate" is
3. i don't see how the sentiment that "you shouldn't transition if you aren't dysphoric enough" is controversial or uncommon at all

>>7756767
>1. he doesn't say they should be prevented
A psychologist not supporting someone transitioning for some reason is basically saying they should be gatekept.

>2. maybe you have different ideas of what "mild/moderate" is
That's possible.

>3. i don't see how the sentiment that "you shouldn't transition if you aren't dysphoric enough" is controversial or uncommon at all
I basically think that if someone experiences enough dysphoria to want to transition people ought not tell them no. I understand that the healthcare system can't and shouldn't pay for everyone though, and the distinction makes sense in that context. If an adult wishes to self-fund their transition they ought have a legal way to do so.

>>7756799
then the real problem is demanding the law bend to one's own opinions on what people should or shouldn't do to themselves. the whole idea of gatekeeping any drug is pure cancer. i suppose in the case that someone thinking their support or lack thereof should prevent anyone's access to drugs there is more of an argument here, but that attitude should not exist.

ultimately i think you are just using preconceived bias against blanchard for things that really are not that crazy. in basically every thread here people say you should not transition unless you have to. this is not controversial

>>7756811
I don't think it is that crazy but you get where I'm coming from given the history of gatekeeping. I think that if someone genuinely wants to transition, is suffering due to their gender as-is and has a good reason to believe they'll do better post-transition it doesn't matter that they aren't suffering nearly as bad as someone else. We don't actually disagree much, right?

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>>7750670
>>7750708
>>7750760
Okay, I was hoping for a response to these posts but since no ones responded yet I'll try to just write out my concerns on my own. Basically, I've had agp pretty consistently since the start of puberty and vague dysphoric feelings since before, though perhaps they might have been out of curiosity as well. There have been times when I strongly considered transition and less than 3 months ago I was almost ready to go see a psychiatrist and maybe get on HRT. But at the same time I had some very deep seated doubts as to whether it was really the right thing to do and felt that deep down I would end up happier without transitioning. Feeling the need to have biological kids is one reason but I also felt that I identified more with maleness than I ever truly could with being female and transitioning would inevitably be a net loss in terms of happiness for me. For the past month or so, any hard feelings of wanted to transition dissipated and I was happy and content with living out the rest of my life as a man. But then in the last few days the agp hit hard and I just want to get rid of it. I know there's no way to cure it since it's an inherent part of my sexuality but I want to be able to take steps to keep its worst effects locked in the back of my mind. In a few months, or years maybe I'll break down and decide it's better for me to transition but for now I feel it'd be better for me in the long run if I don't. If there's anyone with a similar story to mine or simply thinks they can help than I would really appreciate your response.

>>7756936
>Okay, I was hoping for a response to these posts but since no ones responded yet I'll try to just write out my concerns on my own.
Sorry, I'm just super drained right now. My dysphoria comes and goes in waves too. Sometimes I feel despair over the idea of living my life like this and sometimes I'm totally fine. Are you seeing a therapist yet?

>>7756811
You are correct. The main issue is the governments have too much power (so the corporations can lobby for laws in their interest) and it is in the interest of this social democracy to keep everyone equal (ly poor), not everyone free. One of the most effective ways to burn down tax is war on drugs. Yet war on drugs only helps the outlaws to keep their illegal jobs by demand. Heroin is as cheap as water and you can find questionable quality for insane price, which is simply just every imaginable state regulation in practice.

As long as ignorance is in abundance you'll always have enterpreneurs selling cheap emotional taste. I am all for complete legalization of drugs, but we still have a long way ahead. Just look at the sad reality of war on cannabis. Maybe we'll need to change the education system first and teach kids financial freedom and economic responsibility so that we can have a society promoting such approach en masse.

>>7756992
No. I know I should but I live in a midwest college town so I doubt there are any therapists that specialize in gender therapy here. Plus I don't know if my parents could find out about it if I have to give them insurance info. I don't want them to think I plan on transitioning when it could be that I'm actually just learning to be happy the way I am.

>>7756703
>>7756799
Cutting off your penis isn't exactly the most healthy thing to do, and it's not like it's reversible either. Penis isn't cancer. No one dies from penis, except by suicide.

"Primum, non nocere."

Rings a bell?

>>7756854
Maybe. I think all drugs should be freely available for purchase over the counter, so in that sense I am wholly against gatekeeping. Still, arguing someone "should" and "should be able to" are two very different things

>>7755256
a transsexual woman is someone who was born male, lives as female, and desires to have a wholly female body
that's what i was talking about when i said 'generation gap' -- most people here (myself included) have only encountered transsexual or transgender (= not wholly cross-sex body) people who nonetheless have the whole hormonal and social transition thing going on, and who have very fluctuating levels of dysphoria, so when we see someone talking about a 'trans person with mild dysphoria' we just picture transsexuals we've met who were less suicidal about the whole deal than the other ones
when blanchard's talking about a 'trans person with mild dysphoria', he means a transvestite who dresses up on the weekends
(and, as noted, even a transgender woman wouldn't want srs -- all these terms are pretty old, but i think that the fact the trans community has forgotten them is saddening, because it's worth differentiating in contexts like this)

my life is a fucking joke. Why have i spent all this time crossdressing and listening to retarded hypnosis files if at the end of the day when i look in the mirror i see a fucking ape wearing a wig.

It's either i become fully asexual and leave this stupid unrealistic fetishes aside or i transition and become whatever the fuck creature i'd become.

Both options suck.

>>7757268
>"Sorry you're just not sick enough for me to treat you pls suffer quietly now NEXT"

so, am i agp? or just confused as fuck? i've always hated my body (to the point where I have a hard time getting off to the thought of my body screwing anyone) but I've always just attributed that to my chubbiness. but i also relate to women a lot better than i do other men, i'm bi, and i'm sexually submissive. i dom'd for cis female exes because i was kinda expected to but i didn't get much pleasure out of the domination aspect. help

>>7759181
you sound trans, not agp,

>>7759190
but i have no desire to transition

>>7759193
well actually, if i were guaranteed to come out attractive on the other side of my transition, then i'd probably explore that idea a little more

>>7759181
Does it matter what labels you put on yourself? Agp is just a pseudoscience anyway. From my perspective you are somewhere on the trans spectrum with particular set of desires.

You need to start cardio asap. Improve your diet. You have to sort out the basics before satisfying your sexual purpose. Physical fitness imroves your mental health and capacity for introspection.

If you don't want to transition you perhaps wish to fulfil your image of sexual role in a relationship. Again this is not black and white so everyone is somewhere on the spectrum and what we call agp is just a part of it. To put this in practice, you may want to comfort to your idealized view of female during sex, or outside the bed with your partner, or with your social circle, or in the society. The question is always how much hormonal reward my brain can get from it and if I want this particular satisfaction so bad that I am willing to sacrifice something in exchange for gain.

Maybe you are attracted to dominant men, or you are attracted to the idea of you being dominated by men. In either case you should explore the idea that you'd probably enjoy a relationship with an understanding gay top.

>>7759150
More like:
>"Sorry, you're just not sick enough to MUTILATE you."
1. Not only is this "cure" worse than the disease, there's no consensus whether it's a cure at all.
2. Your suffering isn't objective. Prove me wrong.
3. How is your suffering different from the "suffering" of men with gynaecomastia? It's like there are no cis men and no trans women absolutely delighted with it? It's all psychological, not real.
4. While dysphoria itself is legitimate, focussing it on penis is literally dysmorphophobia, which itself is a type of OCD (neurotic struggle for ill-defined perfection). Why? A simple comparison: a passable woman with penis is passable; a man without penis... not so much. There are so many gender markers to be dysphoric about. Penis is not one of them.
5. A woman with penis may not be passable in the eyes of transphobic people... but do we let transphobic people define us?
6. Liberal hypocrisy: when a cis person denies femininity of a woman with penis, we call them "bigoted" and "transphobic". Why don't we use the same words to describe trans people doing the same thing to themselves and to each other? The truth is, SRS is an oppressive, cruel and transphobic act.
7. Wishing to HAVE a penis is not inherently trans: it doesn't make a cis woman a trans man. If a cis woman could have a functioning penis, she would still be a woman. Are trans women not like women?
8. Likewise, wishing to NOT HAVE a penis is not inherently trans. Therefore SRS is not essential for trans women.

>>7759150
9. SRS is also bad influence on the community. How? Post-op trans women put pressure on other trans women to conform and thereby validate their choice. Otherwise they might start to regret... and that would be hell. In effect, SRS doubles as a virus of mind (meme): it spreads virally. Nothing that spreads virally is good because it relies on stupidity and gullibility.

>>7759680
>It's all psychological, not real
Psychological is just a word for chemical interaction in your central nervous system. The desire to be a woman is as real as your skin.

I'd say let people decide for themselves. Let the options be open and honest. I also disagree with pushing others into transition without much consideration, however for those desiring such treatment the option (along with their own established boundary) should always be available. You demonstrated that you are not qualified enough to form a valuable opinion on the matter.

>>7759680
>>7759752
Stopped reading after the first line. 0/10. Apply yourself.

>>7759940
At least you didn't report my post to mods. You're making progress.

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>>7759881
>Psychological is just a word for chemical interaction in your central nervous system.
Fuck you, magician. Software is not hardware. Dreams are not reality. The signifier is not the signifying. Signals and symbols need a physical medium to interact with physical reality, but they aren't physical.

>The desire to be a woman is as real as your skin.
Desire is volatile. Skin isn't.

https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/The_map_is_not_the_territory
>What does it mean to say "the map is not the territory"?
>"The map is not the territory" metaphorically illustrates the differences between belief and reality. The phrase was coined by Alfred Korzybski. Our perception of the world is being generated by our brain and can be considered as a 'map' of reality written in neural patterns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map–territory_relation
>Alfred Korzybski remarked that "the map is not the territory" and that "the word is not the thing", encapsulating his view that an abstraction derived from something, or a reaction to it, is not the thing itself. Korzybski held that many people do confuse maps with territories.

https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy
>Confusion exists in our minds, not in reality. A blank spot on your map does not correspond to a blank territory.

>>7760023
There is no "objective" reason to prefer life to death or pleasure to pain. There is no "objective" reason to do anything. We do things because we desire to do them, and we desire to do them due to the grand cosmic coincidence that is life and evolution. Those traits were selected for and now we're saddled with them. If you dismiss them as somehow "not real" you render any and all possible actions absurd and without purpose. You make morality itself impossible because suffering is somehow "not real" so whatever you do to others isn't really hurting them.

>AGP is getting unbearable
>decide to try crossdressing
>take the first step and shave my legs

my thighs are so sensitive holy shit. i shudder when i touch them

>>7759565
>>7759565
i believe a label may help in this situation because honestly, i don't really know what i'm feeling because i don't want to be female, but i also hate having a masculine body and having to present as such. i enjoy being tall sometimes, but i'd trade bodies with an effeminate manlet any day.

already do cardio, steadily dropping weight. my diet has been shit here recently though.

i'm sexually submissive, which would be fine, in someone who isn't 6'2 and has (literal) lineman shoulders. i'm into femdom, or being dominated by anyone presenting as feminine. i'm not sure I wanna know the psychology there..

>>7733487
Nah I'm not even on hormones and I flip between thinking I should try hormones and planning suicide. Hopefully one day I'll just do it

>>7757989
>a transsexual woman is someone who was born male, lives as female, and desires to have a wholly female body
The weekend transvestite could want a wholly female body. People who are very dysphoric might not, if they don't feel genital dysphoria or only feel genital dysphoria.

"lives as female" is open to interpretation. What if they live a gender neutral life, neither married with kids as a man nor totally female? Think of the trans women in programming. They could easily lead the exact same life before and after transition. So is "living as a woman" just what you wear and what pronouns you ask for while programming?

The weekend transvestite is one extreme, but where is the line? Crossdressing 100% of the time she is alone? Does she have to do it in public? As with gender neutral lifestyles, do ambiguous clothes let her count as crossdressing all the time while still being in boymode, or the opposite, does she not count as crossdressing unless she's obviously wearing female clothes?

Even being married with kids isn't clear. Someone could marry a man and have adopted kids and still be in an entirely male role, or could be married to a woman, or natal female who is as ambiguously trans as they are, but clearly be the one in the feminine role, or be in a transbian style relationship.

>>7760068
Existence is objective. Dead things don't exist. Ill things become dead. Pain and pleasure are sensations of illness and wellness (albeit sensations aren't always true). Life and wellness are axiomatic and self-validating. There is no disputing them for such trivial questions as permissibility of SRS.

On some level, I agree with you: dogs aren't cats only because they don't like the things that cats do. The feline preference makes the cat; the DNA is its consequence, not cause.

But I'm not sure where that level starts and how those levels tie into each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)

I don't think we're going to settle this issue in this thread. Is there anything else you do/don't like about my arguments against SRS?

>>7760023
>Fuck you, magician
I work in the diagnostic field of neurology. This rhetoric is a poor attempt to present yourself in an intellectual position and it doesn't work. If we steer away from solipsism the nervous system is real. What person observes in dreams is perhaps not happening in reality, however what said person experiences is caused by a very complex structure and the process itself is real.

Skin is volatile, as is desire. The basic principles are same, it's the compound provoking a reaction that is different. If you add lye to your skin you'll find out it's quite volatile.

Again you are not qualified enough in the subject to provide a valuable opinion and all you do is a semantic chess that is quite pointless.

>>7760397
eh well what i mean is... for me the decision was clear once i finally accepted i was never going to make it anyway. i was never going to get a gf and be a normie like i tried, so i just said fuck it and decided to take hormones because it didn't fucking matter. if you've already given up there's no point in not taking them if you feel like it

>>7759881
>You demonstrated that you are not qualified enough to form a valuable opinion on the matter.
Get off your high horse.

>>7755206

I am on hormones, dummy. I'm just explaining to that anon why she feels the way she does.

>>7708427
>>7709234
>>7709242
>>7709263
>>7709268
>>7709879
>>7709885

>tfw these natural feminine "beauty" pics cured my AGP
>tfw >>>/r9k/34891963 brought it back

>>7761246
>You are not qualified enough in the subject to provide a valuable opinion.
Well, then Ray Blanchard must be unqualified too. Not neurologist!

>Add lye to your skin you'll find out it's quite volatile.
Except, once you do it, there is no going back. So much for volatility of skin – there go your qualifications in neurology. As you can see, pure logic can go a long way.

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>>7761246
>You are not qualified.
>I'm a neurologist, trust me.
You don't need to search very far for an example of a stupid neurosurgeon. Your diploma is not a pass to say things without demonstrating their validity.

Specialists are too dogmatic, too dishonest and... too ignorant about everything outside their scope of expertise to follow them blindly.

>All you do is a semantic chess.
How else do I undo your semantic chess?

>>7681147
>The irony is that you are the one playing it from the outset. I'm only trying to un-weave your web of misconceptions.

>>7761246
>If we steer away from solipsism the nervous system is real.
A television box is real too. Does it make Donald Duck real?

>What person observes in dreams is perhaps not happening in reality, however what said person experiences is caused by a very complex structure and the process itself is real.
You can say the same thing about Donald Duck.

>>7761246
>>7766098 (me)
Sorry about flooding this thread with my posts but I'm very excited to point out that perhaps the biggest single difference between physical reality and imaginary reality is REVERSIBILITY of processes.

Destruction of a mental simulacrum of a material thing doesn't entail the same consequences as destruction of that thing itself. Ever noticed how we have many lives in computer games but only one Real Life?

THERE IS NO ENTROPY IN VIRTUAL REALITY.

Lack of entropy is the single thing that makes virtual reality "virtual".

The same is true for fairy tales and psychological phenomena.

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>>7761246

>>7766098
>>7766108
>>7766122
>>7766150
>>7766158
>Sorry about flooding this thread with my posts
You should be. You dare call that person a "magician" when you are a dualist i.e. literally believe in souls?

>"The feline preference makes the cat; the DNA is its consequence, not cause."
You sound like the time cube guy. It is impossible to argue with you because your ideas aren't even coherent.

>>7766266
I know I'm going to discredit myself by saying this but I comprehend the time cube guy. His problem is that his insight exceeds his expressive capacity. He needs another 200 years to digest it into a presentable form. He's a curious case of latent intelligence, definitely not incompatible with schizophrenia.

>"The feline preference makes the cat; the DNA is the consequence, not the cause."
Polished it a bit. I can see how this sentence may look like a leap of logic. Let me know which part makes it unclear or even faulty. I'm here to help. You know what "feline" means, do you?

>You dare call that person a "magician" when you are a dualist i.e. literally believe in souls?
Nice point! I need time to think about this.

https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/transgender-intellectual-turing-test/
anyone here who would be interested in participating in this?

>>7766098
>>7766108
Blanchard indeed is not qualified since he is a pseudoscientist. What Blanchard provides is an assumption based on subjective data.

Neurology doesn't provide answers because the diagnostic methods are poor, however the relevant data is objective.

>A television box is real too. Does it make Donald Duck real?
Donald Duck is indeed real, yes. Donald Duck is stored in computers and transmitted through cables and my eyes to be stored as a physical memory in other devices or my brain.

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>>7767271
>Donald Duck is real
LOL, okay. He is real. However you can't deny that he is also quite volatile, unlike my skin. Yes, you can burn my skin but you can do it only once. Oddly enough, he also doesn't age. This is very odd for a real object because even elementary particles age.

>>7767271
>Blanchard indeed is not qualified since he is a pseudoscientist.
Well, I'm glad if I'm only as unqualified as him.

>>7767271
>based on subjective data
???

>>7767271
I can see some merits to your side though.
1. With development of nanotechnology, hardware will become software and matter will become data; it will be as volatile as data. We'll be able to burn my skin and then unburn it.
2. Prospective humanised AI will be no less real than you and me. President Obama has initiated large-scale funding of research into mind uploading technologies. Even AI needs a body with some sort of continuity though.

okay but for real how do I know if /agp/?

>>7767528
as opposed to TruTrans™©®?
or just cis?

>>7767554
just cis

>>7767632
maybe tell why you think you might be agp?
but
if you get pleasure, sexual or otherwise, from imagining yourself as or making yourself more feminine or like a woman, maybe with clothes, makeup, hormones, wigs etc.
basically if you enjoy (possibly sexually) things that your average man would feel to be emasculating you might be AGP

>>7766607
It looks fun but I don't think my answers would be interesting enough to get used.

How did you find out about that? Apart from the cross dream blog I don't find interesting things like that.

New thread >>7768875

>>7767652
>>7767652
i would like to look a little more feminine, but i don't think i could ever fully transition because i'd make an ugly girl. sexually, i top because i'm expected to because of my body type but i want to bottom so badly. i'm pretty turned on by pegging and femdom and the like. and i really really hate the body i have but i always assumed i wasn't happy with myself because i was fat, but now that i've been thinking about everything i suspect there's a little gender dysphoria in play

>>7767511
If I give you a questionaire the only data I get is your interpretation of questions and my interpretation of your answers.

Now if I see a hormonal abnormality in your test, that's not subjective. That's real hard data. The only interpretation is the treatment itself.