/agpg/ - AGP General

FFS-

I've got a pretty fem face, with some masc features, (browbone).

I know skull size and all that shit, but how do you get the best results from FFS and not get into the uncanny valley

>>7568790
The fascination with femininity that AGPs can experience as a child has to be inborn. I don't believe that all boys are equally susceptible to it.

Still it is bizarre to hear about child transvestic fetishists. It makes me wonder if AGP is a deeper, more primal drive than heterosexuality.

>>7575269
>I don't believe that all boys are equally susceptible to it.
Why not? What do you think makes a boy susceptible?

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>>7574927

>not posting the cucking bird instead

Off to a bad start.

>>7575301
The cucking bird?

so this is the new name of /tlg/?

>>7575290
Most boys don't develop AGP, hence it's a condition related to brain development in utero and/or its hereditary. I've seen claims before that its genetic. My older brother very likely has AGP for example, and so do I.

>>7575405
how do you know he does?
what are the signs of agp in someone?

>>7575319

Cuckoo. A bird that cucks birds of other species by laying its eggs in those birds' nests. Once the invasive babies hatch, they eat the babies actually belonging to the cucked parents. If the would-be cucks decide to throw the invading egg out of the nest, the cuckoo comes back and throws the other birds' eggs out too. So it's a lose-lose situation for those birds. Either they're stuck raising a chick that isn't their own and ate their kids, or they have nothing to raise at all. The reason I called her cucking bird is because she's supposed to be a supernatural analog to the cuckoo.

>>7575383

Pretty sure tlg was still around when agpg started.

>>7575269
>Still it is bizarre to hear about child transvestic fetishists
I remember fantasizing about boys being turned into girls when I was 3. THREE!

>>7575493
>Pretty sure tlg was still around when agpg started.
yes but it stopped VERY close to the beginning of agpg.
Almost like agpg took the entire audience. makes you think

>>7575493
>>7575578
What's /tlg/?

>>7575650
translesbian general

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>>7575269
I was into bondage since like 4 and I cant explain that

>>7575654
they are all in mtfg

>>7575705
they're here.
Because transles are all agp

>>7575721
They're generally not here senpai. Trust me, I can tell by the way people here and there write.

>>7575752
I can tell by the way transles are agp and you guys are agp

>>7575765
I mean, some of them are probably AGP. There's just not much of an overlap between the threads. The people who come to this thread are generally those AGPs too scared, ashamed and/or old to transition.

>>7575721
>>7575765
But most of /agpg/ aren't transbians.

Who /straightorbisexual/ here?

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is this agp too?

>>7577221

If it was done as a joke, no.

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>>7577316
balloon fetish is not a joke

>>7575419
He went through a phase in his 30s where he started to grow his hair long(no mpb), shave his face and use skincare products. He said he felt feminine. Later he told me he had a feminine soul and he knew he was a woman. He never transitioned and went back to being more masc presenting eventually.

>>7577221
>>7577333
I saw a tlc show about this once I think

>>7575405
>Most boys don't develop AGP, hence it's a condition related to brain development in utero and/or its hereditary.
That doesn't follow.

>>7577350
Genderqueer != AGP

>>7577333

Then it appears to be AGP.

>>7575493
>The reason I called her cucking bird is because she's supposed to be a supernatural analog to the cuckoo.
How so?

I only picked the OP because of her spanked bum.

>>7577546
What, you think its just random quirk that boys end with? Nothing can predispose you to it? I suppose it's possible that social influences could affect it. Like being around women too much for example.

>>7577546
I always figured genderqueer was related to AGP. But it probably depends on the individual.

Everything is agp

>>7579816
>I suppose it's possible that social influences could affect it. Like being around women too much for example.
That's an obvious one and could contribute to other kinds of trans too.

Anyone got other possible influences?

>>7579816
>>7579963
>Being around women too much when you're 3 years old makes you AGP

>>7580094
Not necessarily just when you're three, and there must be other factors too. Like the kind of women.

I didn't know this general existed
I tried hanging out on mtfg but I don't really fit in there
I think I'm just a crossdresser, but that isn't enough for me, so I don't know

>>7580147
People who are "just a crossdresser" aren't really just a crossdresser. What you feel when en femme is your AGP.

>>7580107
I'm just pointing out that I remember having AGP thoughts when I was 3 so I find any societal explanations extremely suspicious.

>>7580262
That's just semantics, but okay.

>>7580299
Kids can talk by 3 but they can't be AGP?

What were your AGP thoughts?

>>7575570
Mee too, when I was a kid my first crossdressing were some pink socks, I remember dreaming of beign feminized, like forced feminization. During my teens I started with heels, thongs, stockings, I loved watching my body in the mirror, got aroused as hell with that. Once I came and it was fucking intense, some Randy Marsh shit. Anyways I stopped doing it years ago. What explains that weird behavior?

>>7580338
that brings back memories
I used to stay over at my grandmas house when I was young, my aunt had moved out but left most of her stuff there. I slept in her room.
So from about 9pm till midnight I used to dress up.
The first time I tried on her heels I instantly came, I didn't even know what had happened, I was scared I broke my penis for a while.

>>7580299
most dont remember a shit from a time when they were 3, how could you tell it was agp

>>7580364
I remember once I had a sleepover at a friends house, we slept at her sister room (in different beds) cause his room was under maintenance. He fell asleep very quick and I took my chance, there were some red stiletto laced heels next to the my matress, I put them on and started masturbating.

>>7580364
Granny heels?

>>7580393
no my aunt was like 19 at the time

>>7580396
Damn I bet they were sum sexy ass heels.

>>7580399
stilleto ankle boots I think
it was awkward seeing her at christmas

>>7580404
>it was awkward seeing her at christmas
Just put it out of your mind and chat like normal.

I still don't know whay science has to explain for my behavior. I've stoled panties from my aunts two times. I've tried lipstick and rimmel, wore miniskirts, wedges shoes. Man what a fag I was, and until that time I had a femenine slender body with hips (14 y/o). Does this shit means I'm trans? AGP? Women disgust me I have never felt attracted towards anyone in my life. I had a only one relationship in my life, a boyfriend in my 16s for 3 months. I "losed" my virginity with him (we just sucked each other). Recently I've tried gay sex (not the same feeling as with my ex, maybe I'm pansexual). I only tried cause I was tired of livingl like an asexual, always was bakes in the encounters, the guy who fucked my ass never got me an orgasm/reached my prostrate so I stopped visiting him (3 times in total). Help me lads

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>>7580420
are you just struggling to form an identity?

all these childhood memories make me very sad
now Im old and hopeless

>>7580461
You can still enjoy your AGP as much as anyone can while being male.

What are your childhood memories?

>>7574927
>AGP
>not PCIe

>>7580473
I cant enjoy it for shit anymore, Im depressed and nothing turns me on
I dont even know what I want

>>7580433
Yes

>>7576669

I'm bisexual.

>>7576669
Im asexual

>>7576669

Gay twink

No gender dysphoria

>>7576669
tranny here mostly straight i think

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What does it mean if your first experience with Trans* anything was watching porn when you're 12 and thinking to yourself, I want to be that?

I'm not very sexual, in fact I usually only jack off once a month. But I didn't really start to explore gender roles until I was exposed to it in a sexual way. I don't think I have AGP, but is it possible that AGP was what originally drew me to being trans, and overtime I shed that way of thinking as I became more and more comfortable with being trans?

>>7580526
>Im depressed and nothing turns me on
Elaborate? How are you still AGP if nothing turns you on?

>>7575070
Don't overdo it. You can't change your face completely, just get slight ffs on your problem areas

Anyone else would gladly take HRT and surgeries but wouldn't want to socially transition even in a very trans-friendly environment?

>>7582443
Maybe it just happened to be your first exposure? 12 seems to be the standard age when most people realize they're uncomfortable with their gender

>>7576669
I'm a straight man with AGP but I've always experienced AGP pseudo bisexuality as well.

>>7582443

Well, my grandmother had a classmate when she was young (sometime in the 1930s) that was really pretty. The boys in the class would fight over who would get to be her boyfriend. At some point, the girl said that she would become a really expensive prostitute because that way she would live better than even the president's wife. And that is what she ended up doing. So it's possible it was AGP, but it could have been something else entirely.

I was wondering a few days ago what this girl's motivation was for posting pictures of herself. She gets sent gift cards and gifts by guys who follow her, so that's a big motivator. But is that her only reason? I wondered if it was liking the attention she got or having something like AGP that also spurred her on.
https://www.instagram.com/chyna_chase_/?hl=en

>>7581339
Twink without gender dysphoria and you still feel AGP?

>>7585046
agp is normal female sexuality

>>7585046
>At some point, the girl said that she would become a really expensive prostitute because that way she would live better than even the president's wife. And that is what she ended up doing.
That's just being aware of what you can do by being pretty and female.

Loving and using attention isn't AGP.

>>7585109
Women like feeling pretty but they don't literally get off to themselves.

>>7585146
it's not me, it's a persona

>>7585321
Same difference. Women don't literally get off to personae of themselves.

>>7585321
oh, so you're just a pedo freak then?

>>7585334
?

>>7585332
I've seen them do it
Normally the most astute and dominant women can turn into complete submissive in the bedroom begging to be spanked and slapped around

It's still them, but a different part of them

>>7585350
Being submissive isn't the same as being turned on by your own femaleness, persona or not. Straight and gay men can be subs without being AGP.

>>7585352
I wasn't trying to say that it was the same thing
I was saying that behavioral changes during sex are common

>>7585366
We could create a category for each kind of change and AGP could certainly be one of them.

But there would be ones for men, for women, and mixed. So simply being one of them doesn't make AGP part of female sexuality.

AGP doesn't even have to be a kind of change during sex, since MtFs with AGP might not change how they act at all between AGP sex and the rest of their lives. It's only masculine acting men with AGP who change to it.

all women get off on all the attention and lust they get from men for being sexy and pretty
since they get conditioned to it from teenage years, they see it everywhere and experience it themselves

its not the same as AGP, women dont get turned on by themselves and their femininity alone but by how others perceive and treat them

"Recent studies have shown that many cisgender women (up to 93%) have experienced “erotic arousal to the thought or image of oneself as a woman.” Therefore, we should no longer use a term that is so closely associated with paraphilias and “erotic anomalies” (as Blanchard calls them) to describe what appears to be a relatively common (and non-pathological) form of sexual thought or fantasy experienced by many female/feminine-identified people."

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2015/05/reconceptualizing-autogynephilia-as_26.html

>>7585400
>erotic arousal to the thought or image of oneself as a woman.

but ... but they are women? so do the other 7% imagine themselves as men?

>>7585406
I think it's more of a cultural thing
not so much biology

>>7585388
And conversely, AGP isn't getting off on the attention and lust of men, although I'm sure most AGPs would if they got the chance.

They're similar things though and could be connected.

Do men feel the same?

>>7585400
Likewise for this, do men feel the same?

>>7585406
They might just not picture themselves in sexual scenarios at all

>>7585400
The study she cites is based on 29 responses, from 51 women in a single workplace, none of whom were lesbian. The age rage was also not representative.

The study says:
>It has been reported that approximately 9% of women and 20% of men report at least a “little” sexual arousal by seeing themselves nude
>“… many individuals find some additional stimulation in observing their own genitalia …” during masturbation
>A sexual fantasy in which the individual has a different body (or the individual's body functions differently) is distinct from a sexual fantasy where a different body type is a significant factor in the individual's arousal.
>MTFs may picture themselves as women in their fantasies, but just fantasizing themselves as women may not be arousing sexually.
>Although some MTFs probably are aroused by this “thought,” [the simple thought of possessing breasts or vulvas] it is not clear how common or frequent this experience is.
>Women already possess breasts and vulvas, and it seems reasonable to assume that individuals tend to fantasize about what they do not have.
>It is possible that the postoperative MTFs who continue to have autogynephilic fantasies now focus on a different or more feminine ideal than their actual, postsurgical, body type.
>It is possible that some respondents in the present study (genetic women) were aroused by the possibility of or fantasy about a sexual encounter rather than the “autogynephilic” stimuli described. It is possible that some “autogynephilic” MTFs were aroused by the possibility of or fantasy about a sexual encounter as a female rather than “autogynephilic” stimuli.

>>7585465 >>7585400

yeah that one dubious study with joke samplesize

Are AGPs cute enough to chase?

>>7585485
sorry, we want real men, not pathetic chasers

>>7585485
self identified AGP's might be
it's a relatively new term, most older guys would probably just call themselves crossdressers or sissies

>>7585485
please don't ask that
it's triggering

>>7585503
i'm self-identified agp and i don't like the other terms so much, although i know cd is accurate.

>>7585505

>it's triggering
Bad experience with a chaser in the past?

>>7585513
no i just want men to pretend i'm cute because i'm not.

>>7585478
What are you talking about? Serano describes it as
>*actual* scientific literature
that should be read by anyone
>who denies the fact that Blanchard's autogynephilia theory has been thoroughly disproven

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>>7585513
>hey girl, are you pretty enough for me to go after you

voice training is rough going
does an AGP fetishist such as myself even need it?

>>7585672
Depends. If I could do it, I'd get to chat to guys online as a girl. Would that mean a lot to you?

>>7585690
I think it's a useful skill to learn as a... whatever you call us.
If I get really good at it, I might even pass. That would be a dream, but not essential.

I like developing essentially useless skills. I learned how to solve a rubiks cube because someone in college could do it. I get jealous of people like that.

>>7585700
>as a... whatever you call us.
Yeah...

>If I get really good at it, I might even pass.
If you might get to pass, go for it!

I like learning essentially useless knowledge. Skills though, less so. I lack the dedication.

>>7585672
Do what you like, I've started some voicetraining jokingly but any feminization makes me feel good.
I don't plan on impersonating a girl though, I do it for myself.

>>7585810
I think I'm doing it out of spite really.
I don't have a reason to, but it pisses me off that others can do it and I can't.
Oh well, further proof I'm insane.

>>7585820
thats you competitive male ego, let it go

>>7585825
you know that's not easy to do.

>>7585825
Why would you want to? Keep the best of both. Be the ubergender.

>>7585840
Because it would make you feel better if you stop stressing over keeping up with others, trying to prove something or to beat them in pointless things like all the men tend to. All the silly pissing /dick waving contests.
I know I've been like that myself and often getting carried away, fighting over some crap or feeling inferior because I cant do as well as others. It's a lot of stress and anxiety over nothing caused by testosterone and male competitive nature.

Focus on yourself and the areas that really matter to you.

>>7585911
So keep the competitiveness and drop the ego.

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>>7584856
>Anyone else would gladly take HRT and surgeries but wouldn't want to socially transition even in a very trans-friendly environment?

Despite all the trans propaganda going on here and wanting feminization I still dont feel like Im trans but rather a feminine guy. I'm too used to 'male' socialization and it would be faking if I started to present as female. But want to be female for myself, that's very AGP, isn't it.

>>7584856

No, I would love to go the whole way, including SRS and ID changes.

>>7585388

>women dont get turned on by themselves and their femininity alone but by how others perceive and treat them

There's a category of autogynephilia called interpersonal autogynephilia that sounds just like that.

>>7585485

Not me, at least. The only hope for me is FFS.

>>7585925
I would say its the opposite way, in a sense you become more self-centered.
And I believe this attitude helps when it comes to gender nonconforming, since you dont want the same things as normie men and mormie standards for men dictate.

>>7585947
>I still dont feel like Im trans but rather a feminine guy. I'm too used to 'male' socialization and it would be faking if I started to present as female.
Is there any degree to which you'd like to be treated as a female socially? Like perhaps just wearing the clothes being acceptable, or guys liking you, or anything like that?

>But want to be female for myself, that's very AGP, isn't it.
It's normally seen as very trans and not AGP.

Basically, the perception is that wanting to be female for yourself is trans, wanting to be female for sexual purposes is AGP, and wanting to present as female is something trans and AGP people want. But in reality I suspect a lot of trans people transition for the social side more than the "for myself".

>>7585970
>I would say its the opposite way, in a sense you become more self-centered.
How so?

How does that connect to normie men desires and standards?

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>>7585973
I have no idea what it's like to be treated as a female...
>guys liking you
But thats so gaaay! you know Im worry of unwanted attention cause I have social anxiety. And I guess I cant even think of a possibility of passing and being seen as female. Of course I like fancy clothes and would dress andro if I could get away with it without disapproval or harassment.

I've seen a lot of arguments that social part is more important for 'tru-trans'.
And it's not just 'sexual purposes' for AGP, it feels exciting and good in general, while masculinization sucks and feels so alien and unwanted.

>>7586291
>wanting men to like you is gay
Anon it's 2017.

>you know Im worry of unwanted attention cause I have social anxiety. And I guess I cant even think of a possibility of passing and being seen as female.
But if you could pass and have wanted attention just from people you know and like, close personal friends, you'd prefer them to see you as female?

>I've seen a lot of arguments that social part is more important for 'tru-trans'.
Technically trans is supposed to be the physical side. Trutrans valuing the social part so much just shows they, like us, are different in their own ways from diagnosable trans/GID.

>And it's not just 'sexual purposes' for AGP, it feels exciting and good in general, while masculinization sucks and feels so alien and unwanted.
But that's not strictly the AGP part. Plenty of AGPs share it though.

Why does the masculine feel seem to unwanted and sucky to you?

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>>7586362
Those True™transkids identify with opposite gender early on and social part becomes important for them before hormone-fulled difference between boys and girls really kicks in. I was never like that, I liked being a boy. Only in my sex/romantic fantasies I was a girl or trap.

I really dont know and dont want to selfreflect anymore - it never works, my girly-male brain is too weird, its never consistent. I simply dont see myself as opposite gender generally or as a man either. The phrase 'in love with female self' is quite true for me.
Im a man who wants to look more like a woman and be a woman in bed but super closeted and has no life whatsoever. Just zap me, Mike.

>>7586708
>I simply dont see myself as opposite gender generally or as a man either. The phrase 'in love with female self' is quite true for me.
Just call yourself non-binary, or trans and tomboy, or feminine male/femboy.

>Just zap me, Mike.
Don't be like that!

I'm 6" hard and about 3" soft. I have a noticeable bulge even when flaccid. Will a chastity cage help with a bulge or just prevent erections? I do know it makes it impossible to tuck, so there must be a way to conceal it.

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>>7574927
Thats what AGP means?
Oh shit, I thought it was just a sexual fetish I had.
I didn't know it had another word for it other then sissy or whatever.

>>7576669
Straight guy

I kinda wanna know if this is AGP, or perhaos being actually trans:

- massive bdd
- massive ocd
- every time I realize I have a masculine feature I feel a bit defeated
- gay
- moderately aroused from the idea of being a girl, but not greatly
- get jealous of girls
- never really had a male personality
- very feminine features all from my mom, so I suspect there may be biological something going on
- crossdressing is hot for 20 seconds but afterwards it honestly feels normal
- wore women's underwear throughout high school. Do not wear underwear now unless it's female. Otherwise feels slightly wrong

AGP, trans? Should I see a therapist? Are therapists generally conservative about diagnosing trans over fetish, or do they tend to jump to trans if you accidentally (or intentionally) use the right leading answers?

Thanks

>>7588941

Oh actually an additional two important things that may cancel each other out:

- every time I'm told I look young and boyish that makes me really happy
- enjoy penetrative and submissive actions similarly, but have massive pussy/womb envy

>>7588418
I think it will only stop erections

>>7588941
>>7588955
you sound trans

you can be trans and also have agp they aren't mutually exclusive or something

>>7589077

Unfortunately that's not the answer I hoped to hear. Especially since I'm enjoying life greatly as a very much desired twink/femboy by gay men.

But the truth is the truth. I should seek therapy to figure out where I stand.

>>7588955
>>7588941
>>7589085
Do not trust therapists. Do not trust /lgbt/.

>>7589117

Trust nobody, not even yourself?

But really, what to do then?

>tfw repressing got too hard so now you are taking hormones to turn into some half man half woman freak just so that you dont feel like you want to die everyday

>>7589150
Trust things on their own merits, not because of who said them.

>>7589085
Oh, well if you're happy as a femboy stay as a guy then I guess. just fyi though if you do think you may be trans you should really try to figure it out since earlier transition is better.

Also where you are saying stuff like "truth is the truth" being trans isn't some hugely complicated thing like you seem to be thinking it is. Imo the questions to think about are
are you unhappy with your body's masculine characteristics? Would you be happier if they were more feminine?

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>>7589271
>Would you be happier if they were more feminine?

Yes. But only if they would actually become more feminine. For example, my hips, my face, my chest.

I think I'm starting from a better place than most, but I also think I might be too boyish for it to work. Boyish as in: I am very feminine, but more in the way a boy is, as opposed to a man.

I know this is a shit example, but say, Link versus Sean Connery. I have the link features like big eyes, androgynous jaw, lips, and a nose that is really soft and my best feature, but is more of a boy's than a girls, but definitely not a man's. But I do have Sean connery's eyebrows and forehead.

It's like, if it could work, I'd pursue it more. But if it won't, why squander something that, while not exactly what I want, isn't bad?

>>7589314

As a quick addition, again:

It's not that I'm happy with where I am. It's that I can kinda tolerate where I am. If transition works, I'd be estatic. If it doesnt, I'd regret leaving an imperfect but bearable state of being.

It's like, say you're an average looking dude. The devil says you can flip a coin: heads and you're a supermodel hunk, tails and you turn into Wallace Shawn. Do you flip?

>>7589058
If you wear it for long periods of time will it prevent erections in the future?

>>7589442
I think it would yes. Since you lose erections on hrt as long as you don't manually induce them I don't see why it would be any different with a cage. idk that much about chasity stuff though I imagine there would be info about this kind of thing on chastity fetish websites though.

>>7589314
>>7589336
well idk really what you should do and in the end you need to decide for yourself but we are usually our own worst critics and when starting most people think they aren't going to be able to pass. also remember your body will probably get more masculine as you age.

>>7585465
this. it's always that one retarded study and somehow >>7585400 managed to twist it even further

>>7588941
>moderately aroused from the idea of being a girl, but not greatly
moderate AGP, but not great

rest of it is tranny shit

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>ywn have this

Remind me why I keep going, agpg. My transition has the pace of a snail and it wouldn't make a difference if it didn't since the end of it is off the side of a cliff.

>>7589561
She's a feminist so of course facts aren't her strong point.

>>7584001
It never goes away, just like you dont stop being gay if you are not horny and want to be alone

>>7590285
implying its impossible to get fucked by some faggot

but I suspect thats not what you really want

>>7590753
But if you're gay and not horny, you're not being gay. You're being asexual.

>>7589314
I think you look cute and can pass

>>7590772
All people have time when they dont want any, doesnt make them asexual. You dont become asexual unless you fundamentally lose any sexual attraction to anyone forever.

>>7590838
But what AGP feelings or thoughts do you have when nothing is turning you on?

>>7590758

>implying its impossible to get fucked by some faggot
>fucked by a faggot

That's exactly what I don't want. I want a straight boyfriend but I look like shit judged by female standards. All I could get if I cut my hair is straight-up faggots and whores.

>>7590973
Don't knock it till you try it.
>>7536713
>>7536905

>>7580646
No you're not bi, you're pseudobi, which is actually SO FUCKING DIFFERENT.

>>7581339

You're trutrans

>>7584959

At least this one's sincere

>>7576669

most AGPs THAT TRANSITION are transbians.

>>7591012

>No you're not bi, you're pseudobi, which is actually SO FUCKING DIFFERENT.

Except I've felt attracted to men WITHOUT having to imagine myself as a woman to do so since I was 11. I've also been taken for gay a few times and a girl once. You shouldn't shut your brain off just because you've read some research.

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>>7591012
>hurr durr I know better what you are

>>7591012
>No you're not bi, you're pseudobi, which is actually SO FUCKING DIFFERENT.
What is the difference?

>You're trutrans
How can they be trutrans or even trans at all with no dysphoria?

>most AGPs THAT TRANSITION are transbians.
That's interesting. Why would non-transitioning AGPs be more straight/bi and transitioners be more les?

>>7591022
I didn't used to but now I've started to be able to be attracted to men without having to imagine myself as a woman.

Have I stopped being pseudobi? Has my pseudobi just changed?

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is suicide the only way to stop wanting to be a girl

>>7591093
No, there's a better way >>7590996

>>7591100
no i actually want to be a girl and i hate my dick and balls

>>7591107
You might stop wanting to when you get to feel similar to what girls get to feel.

>>7591093
reject gender lies and start wanting to be a man - it's much better

>>7591129
>reject gender lies
what

>>7591074
frankly i don't really see how agps overall wouldn't be mostly into women. it seems a lot of times that people just somehow mistake straight up gay fantasies for agp

>>7592712
My fantasy is being a girl with a boyfriend. That's AGP not gay.

>>7591074
>No you're not bi, you're pseudobi, which is actually SO FUCKING DIFFERENT.
What is the difference?

Pseudo bi just means your only attracted to the act of sex with a man. Your not attracted to his voice, his smell, his body, his face, his personality and mannerisms.

>>7593092
But the act of sex with a man is gay, not AGP.

What's AGP is him being part of the sexual fantasy of being a woman. That fantasy can be more than just sex as a woman with him. It can be his personality, body, mannerisms alongside my imaginary female ones.

apparently everything is agp if you shitpost about it enough

>>7593503
So can AGPs ever develop true bisexuality, even if it starts as pseudo? I'm attracted to femininity in men so i'm technically bi, but this is very different from standard androphilia. So femboys are fine but average dudes are lol nope.

>>7590936
Still into feminization, still envying women.

Okay, I'm not planning on becoming a tranny ever in my life. However, I'm wanting on making my body more slimmer/feminine looking.

The problem is that my upper-body is skinnyfat and a bit chubby looking. I'm 5'9 and 156 lb

My lower-body (beneath waist) is sorta feminine looking, but I'm afraid that I might get cyclist legs/thighs.

Any advice from /agpg/? I really don't want to take HRT due to the fact that I can't afford it and I'm uncomfortable with using it.

Would post pics if asked.

>>7594442
lose weight you goof

>>7594888
I am, but I'm worried about looking more masculine and getting cyclist legs via bike-riding.

>>7594949
do ballet instead it lengthens and feminizes the piss out of your muscles and is extremely good exercise

I want to be a trap, but I only dress up when at my apartment, since no one else knows that I do it. However I want to like grow my hear out and wear nail polish, but I don't know what to do, since I'm sure it will ruin all the friendships and everything I've built the past several years if I do something obvious that I'm "coming out", even though I don't want to transition beyond that.

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>>7595059
>no one else knows

oh, honey.
that tweezed brow?
the smudge of mascara and eyeliner that never washes off?
the lace panties in your laundry?
those limp wrists?

everyone knows.
and they don't care.
it won't ruin any friendships.
just be yourself, girl!

>>7595159
I think I have been a little more careful than that, at least I have tried to be.

I'm confident most of the people who matter don't know, and would find it really strange for me to do something like grow my hair out.

>>7594230
>So can AGPs ever develop true bisexuality, even if it starts as pseudo?
I think so. They are basically a spectrum and you can shift along it over time. First it would be pseudo, then attraction to men as long as you feel a bit feminine, and eventually attraction any time.

>I'm attracted to femininity in men so i'm technically bi, but this is very different from standard androphilia. So femboys are fine but average dudes are lol nope.
Do you have pseudobisexuality as well as being femboy bi? If so, you could probably turn it into true bisexuality while still liking femboys in their own way with your gynephile bisexuality.

>>7595175

Why are you so worried about what other people think?
What other people think of you is none of your business.

>>7595417
This is true....if you are completely ok being treated like shit, and having no friends.

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>>7595424
If they treat you like shit for being yourself then they aren't your friends.

>>7595159
>the lace panties in your laundry?
I made this mistake, except it was a two-piece bikini.

>>7591107
I'm a perma sub and my bf only lets me cum from fucking

>>7595175
>grow my hair out.
>strange
what? its the least strange thing you can do, its normie tier

>>7596501
I think it would be really strange to them if I did.

>>7595417
I don't want to hurt any friend ships by like "weirding" someone out.

>>7585478
Like, I agree, but it is funny to hear someone question that study's validity in a thread dedicated to Ray Blanchard's work. He's just as much of a quack.

>>7574927
Are these threads satire?

>>7596649
No but a lot of the posters in them are satires of humans.

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>>7596641
Blanchard isn't taken very seriously either cause his methodology was faulty

>>7596663
tfw not a real person

>>7596641
No thats a common Blanchardian position, Blanchard did nothing wrong, but Moser, that guy's a hack amirite?

>>7596735
>tfw not a real person
Every time I feel like I'm about to accept that I'm trans I masturbate to something super cringe-inducing and this sends me back to square one. I'm the ugly repress4ever anon so I guess it doesn't matter much but still.

>>7595175
when my hair started getting long, people said I looked like a girl
what a weird emotion that is

>>7597175
I'm not sure how I would feel about that, but I worry that might lead them to notice other subtle things

>>7597175
recently, on several occasions, nurses who i work with have jokingly called me 'frau doktor' (in our language, you'd adress a doctor by 'herr doktor' or 'frau doktor', depending on gender)

i act like idgaf but i secretly enjoy it

>>7596735
>>7596906
>tfw not a real person either
>just feel like a fake and do what I'm supposed to do and act like I'm supposed to act
>just want to die

will taking hormones fix it

>>7597563
Do you want to be a woman, Anon?

Does moisterizing after shaving help prevent razor bumps?

>>7597668
yes ;_;

>>7597676
depends on yours skin type.
naturally oily skin might do better with an astringent

http://the-orbit.net/zinniajones/2013/09/that-was-dysphoria-8-signs-and-symptoms-of-indirect-gender-dysphoria/
>indirect-gender-dysphoria

HOW the hell can you tell if you dont like yourself and your life cause it sucks or are you repressed-trans?

>>7598136
change your life and see if it improves

>>7597678
Then it might!

>>7598136
>HOW the hell can you tell if you dont like yourself and your life cause it sucks or are you repressed-trans?
Pro tip: There isn't a difference.

>>7596906
what you are aroused by or masturbate to does not determine your gender identity.

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>>7599102
AGP begs to differ
>fap to fantasies of being a girl
>develop female identity
>want to be a girl out of sexual context too

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>>7598204
If only you could easily do that, obviously fixing your life while being depressed, unmotivated and having no support from anyone is quite a task.

>>7598879
Same result but whats the cause, all those can be generic symptoms of depression or some other disorder. And then you fool yourself into thinking its gender dysphoria only because you fapped imaging you were a girl while wearing sisters stockings.

>just want to wear cute clothes
>to big a guy to transition
>don't want to be gay
>crippling anxiety/depression
>can't sleep

why live.

>>7599540
>but whats the cause, all those can be generic symptoms of depression or some other disorder.
It's all the same thing, all that's different is what's stopping you getting away from it and how you fix it.

>And then you fool yourself into thinking its gender dysphoria only because you fapped imaging you were a girl while wearing sisters stockings.
It becomes gender dysphoria and I wish my sister wore stockings.

>>7599102
I know this isn't rational but I'm just overwhelmed with disgust for myself and can't take my gender-related feelings seriously as a result.

>>7599147
When will this meme end?

>>7599540
There isn't really a simple answer to this. Try imagining you solving all of your gender-unrelated problems, one by one. Could you live happily after doing that, or would you still feel unwell? Are you fine with your body? Would you be fine with living with it forever as it slowly masculinizes?

>>7599554
Because things can get better. You'll have to put effort into making them better though.

>>7599961
>When will this meme end?
>implying it's a meme

>Try imagining you solving all of your gender-unrelated problems, one by one. Could you live happily after doing that, or would you still feel unwell?
Not that anon, but I simply can't imagine life in the future. All I can imagine is the fantasy of being a pretty cis girl with a husband.

>>7599961
>Try imagining you solving all of your gender-unrelated problems, one by one. Could you live happily after doing that

Does that ever work? All people think they'd be happier if they achieve something they were taught they should, career, money, family... choose life! Does that make them happy? not necessary. You can be successful and depressed. So how would I know.
I dont comprehend how some people can live till 35 with wife and kids then come out as trans. Maybe they've been quite happy for a while and didnt suffer from dysphoria? Maybe I would've been fine too if I wasn't such avoidant personality loser

>>7598136
When I was in my repression phase I scoffed at that article. Now I understand it a bit more. I suspect I might have had indirect dysphoria caused by testosterone during my teenage years and maybe I still do now. Fwiw I'm still repressing but i'm aware of it now and just smoke weed to deal with dysphoria now.

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Why do you have to name a fetish as if it were a condition or disorder?

You know that saying "just because you can doesn't mean you should"?
Humans are wired to break this rule, we love doing what we CAN, even if we shouldn't or don't need to.

- Pleasure can be achieved from fiction (think porn videos or cartoons), even if they only involve the opposite sex having pleasure;
- Pleasure can be achieved with the anus, making anyone virtually able to think about a passive role scenario;
Therefore, having girl fantasies is nothing really out of bounds to a person who explores their full spectrum.

Especially white (or asian) and thin people will feel inclined to do it, since their bodies are more easily transformable into a girly-perceived shape.

I for one have a delicate body and am disgusted by manliness in general. I would be okay with being a girl, since I like the female anatomy so much, so sometimes I can dwell on this fantasy as a way of adding variety.
But it's just that "what if", like the OP says, it doesn't take my sleep or occupies my mind more than occasionally during fap time. It's not different than fapping to, say, scat, but knowing I'd never be able to really get into real, actual shit.

One thing I'd love to do would some day dress up like the cute girl I know I could pass as, just to kill my curiosity and also to show women in general how ugly they are (uglier than a guy!) and how easy it is to fool people into thinking you're cute with modern makeup/clothing that pretty much covers 99% of your real physical features.

I kinda lost sight of what I was originally talking about, so I'll stop here.

>>7600845
>Does that ever work?
Well, if you're trans it probably won't work, no, which is the point of asking this question. The answer isn't a foolproof indicator but it's a start.

>>7600947
I don't overthink it
life fast, die young

>>7600947
>Why do you have to name a fetish as if it were a condition or disorder?
Because it can take over your life and force you to transition/whatever

>>7602342
But so can dysphoria.

>>7600947
>Why do you have to name a fetish as if it were a condition or disorder?
Maybe for you it's just a fetish, but for some of us it's much more, even a condition like being trans or an orientation.

>tfw want to be a dom bitch and humiliate men

>>7602417
Why don't you want to be a sub and get humiliated?

>>7602430
What kind of question is that? Im not a masochist
I want to be a goddess, I want to be adored and worshiped.

>>7602455
But what's the appeal?

>>7602479
Having power over someone feels amazing. And not because you force them by strength. But because you are stunningly hot and manipulative they fall hopelessly in love. You could make them do anything, play them, be absolutely cruel and then tease them, humiliate them. But they want it, they just cant help it and crawl back for more.
Thats the kind of power beautiful women have. Be a cruel bitch yet still be treated like an angel.

>>7602479
I don't think doms naturally exist. I hold they are socially created except for sadists.

The ratio of msubs to doms in general is like 50 to 1.

>>7602591
You are forgetting that strive for domination is natural for all the animals and humans as well. It always manifests in any kind of groups - even in kindergarten and societies at large. That's why leaders and bullies exist. That's why people lust for power alone regardless of the benefits or liabilities it brings. But not everyone is born to rule.

>>7586708
I for the most part consider myself a heterosexual male with sexuality focused to my female partner instead of me. I get off of empathizing with her pleasure so I enjoy dominating her.

I am not even attracted to men, but I am losing my breath when I imagine myself being tenderly penetrated with panties pulled down while wearing kneesocks, being called a good girl as I am completely dominated. And I would try it if I wasn't in a relationship with a girl already. It's strange because I don't feel like gay, yet I would not mind to be in a relationship with one as a submissive bottom if I could be his girl in bed, so maybe you should explore that a bit. Damn I am shivering right now.

>>7602734
its uncanny how you go from lusting a girl and wanting to do these things to her to projecting and wanting these this things done to you and wanting to be a girl yourself

boner, noo

>>7602858
I don't want to be a girl though. I am happy being a dominant man, yet my agp makes the desire to be in the role of a female satisfying a man in bed strong.

I don't get what's so uncanny about it.

>>7602583
That sounds so close to being the hottest thing ever, but on that side of it it just feels empty to me. The same kind of thing as a sub though, lacking power, lacking manipulation being whatever they want to make me, and I love it.

>>7602591
I don't think doms or subs automatically exist.

The sub/dom ratio is only off because women are more usually subs than men are doms.

I dress my bf up as a girl and put him into bondage when we snuggle.

>>7602683
>T. bullied nerd
Bullying is children reaching out and trying to force their peers into sunshine while increasing their status. Being bullied is a relative blessing, since the ensuing banter could raise the status of both parties. The only time it's bad is when kids handle it badly or it gets physical.

I'm pretty sick of seeing turbo beta teachers treating bullies like shit like some sort of fetishistic power fantasy.

>>7603273
you ever milked him?

are Futa real?

they have a vagina, and a penis without testicles.

Is that possible irl?

to be born that way, I mean.

>>7603315
google hermaphrodite

>>7603329
yeah but which specific intersex condition is the same as what a futa is?

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>>7602342
>>7602391
But in that case it's not a fetish anymore, it becomes borderline gender dysphoria or something.

It's like you're saying "I want to be a girl, but I'm not gay like those trannies".

>>7603737
>it becomes borderline gender dysphoria or something.
Yes.

>but I'm not gay like those trannies".
I never said that.

>be a tranny for 8 years
>go from barely functional guy to hyper neet tranny who never leaves the house
>feel like i don't pass even though i'm almost never misgendered
>still nobody hits on me
>the real reason i feel shit is because i'm probably ugly
>people around me tell me i'm not but i think they're all lying to make me feel better
>no point in being a man/woman if you can't be attractive as one
>detransition in late 2015
>living the femboy life on a diet of soy and spiro
>mood starts improving because i'm no longer judging myself by female standards constantly
>recently feelings of jealousy start to creep back in
>i want to be even more feminine
>the only thing keeping me femboy mode is the fact that i make a cute twink and i'm kind of AAP for myself

How do I make it stop? I just want to live the homo lifestyle and stop feeling jealous of transgirls who transition successfully and look cute.

>>7604064
>gave up even though you passed, just because you were ugly

Lol. You're so weak.

>>7603737
yeah you are correct but I think there are only a few people or newfags still pretending they aren't trans

>>7604073
The problem is I still have a mental illness I can't get rid of and I just want to be a normie. But I can't bring myself to commit suicide because it would be selfish.

I voted for Trump because I sincerely believe his administration will have us rounded up and gassed.

>>7604142
retard, should have voted clinton if you wanted to get thrown off a building for faggotry.

>>7604064
go back on normal hrt and just present however you want

if you feel comfortable as a femboi just do that

>>7604064
Why not keep on estrogen? Idgi

>>7604334
Estrogen would just add fuel to the fire by giving the mental illness what it wants; to be more feminine. Spiro alone staves off masculinization while keeping the body in a more neutral place gender wise. I won't get more manly but I won't get more feminine either.

>>7604361
meanwhile your bones crumble

>>7604361
You do know that having no sex hormone fucks with the brain and other vital systems

But that's your solution l, be a boy on hormones like me

I kind of want to have some small breast growth. I was told taking around .5 mg of estradiol daily will do that with out other permanent side effects. Is it a good idea?

>>7604503
Even trans women who take a normal E dose usually have "small" breast growth.

>>7604518
But does it have the possibility to cause other effects at that dosage?

>>7604503
>>7604539
just take a full dose, femboys wish they could take a full dose because all the effects are positive, softer skin, younger face, except the breast growth which is a negative to them.

So if you want breath growth take a full dose and your only "negative side effects" will be looking younger

>>7604361
lol sounds like you fell for hon memes about magical estrogen or something

>>7604503
There are no other permanent side effects apart from breast growth. What are you thinking of?

A low dose of oestrogen is still going to give you everything, just to a lesser extent.

>>7604636
>>7604671
We I guess that sounds good then. Maybe I'll take the plunge after all

>>7604372
>your bones crumble
Vitamin supplements and youth, fampai. I might be worried if I were old, but it takes years for bones to get that weak. They put trutrans kids on lupron for longer than I've been on spiro alone. Besides, I'm still counting on Daddy Trump to kill all of us degenerates before I hit 30.
>>7604399
>fucks with the brain and other vital systems
I'm already fucked up and mentally ill as it is, it can't get much worse.

Is there any good reason to not kill myself today or tomorrow ?


wanting to be a girl isn't going away and its sucked every bit of anything i've had in my life away

all i do is engage in escapism and think about killing myself

>>7604769
fool your brain into improving your life to become a girl

>>7604778
i can't be a girl though

>>7604782
future tech will change that
meanwhile get yourself in shape and start making some money

>>7604818
lol

I'm most likely not going to last for the next year or two let alone that long

>tfw no agp gf to anally penetrate

>>7604844
>tfw not an agp cis girl to be vaginally penetrated

>>7604840
and miss out on fulfilling your dream?

>>7604887
I'm more than happy to pretend its a vagina if you are, anon.

>>7604916
it's a dream that can't be fulfilled

>>7604844
>be me bisexual agp tranny in femboy mode
>tfw meet a qt pre hrt agp on discord
>tfw we have similar interests
>tfw she starts hitting on me and telling me i'm cute even though there's nothing remotely cute about me
>tfw she wants to dress both of us up in cute clothes and make out
>tfw she's a virgin and wants me to nail her boipucci

What could go wrong?

>bf asked me to tell him my sexual fantasy
>tell him
>he says he's down for acting it out

I'm so glad this fetish made me gay

>>7604932
No point if I can't be dripping and ready to go when you decide to fuck me in the elevator

>>7605117
idk depends on how dysphoric you are about sex and your penis

>>7605117
sounds like a dream, go for it

tfw not a qt and no one in my area

tfw too insecure and slave of societal acceptance wanting to be a normie, which is totally incompatible with being a tranny

maybe I should refuge to leafland or something and be a hon there

>>7605465
Are you actually gay, or are you just getting off to the fact you are his gf in bed?

>>7605559
If you're sucking cock its all really semantics

>>7605682
but its crucial for relationship to work

>>7605559
what's the difference?

>>7605716
Well if you are agp you are attracted to the role you imagine in your head, not to him being a man. You are attracted to yourself so you are doing gay things to feed your desires to be his gf but you are not really gay.

>>7605745
i guess i'm agp not gay then. i'm attracted to the scene in my head and i want to be the girl from it and i want my bf to be the guy from it.

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>sneaky conversion therapy convincing gays they are just agp

>>7605781
you mean convincing agps they are just gay

>>7605790
I wish I just gay or just straight or just trans
JUST

>>7605805
i wish i was just female

>>7605781
>>7605790
>guise we missed our chance to convince another agp guy to transition we can't tolerate losing like this!!

>>7605805
What's so bad about having agp?

>>7605814
but i don't want to transition.

I used to only like women and being a woman, but then I started liking cocks and men as well, but now I'm starting to not like women as much, beyond wishing I was them. Is that normal?

the 'just be gay lol XDDDDD' guy was in mtfg for months crying constantly about not being a girl and shit then he got a bf and is cured I guess. he still comes to mtfg to spam about how he is so gay and loves being a gay guy not a tranny so idk seems like he might not be completely over it

>>7605865
she said in /repgen/ that she doesn't want to be a girl any more.

but even if she does, if being a gay guy stops her being miserable about it, it's a win.

>have agp
>take hormones
>hips get slightly wider
>feel like a freak
>feel like I disfigured myself
>depression, body dysphoria
>stop going to school
>drink heavily for several years
>finally begin to accept what happened
>return to school
>start taking hormones again
>start to think of myself as female
>start becoming attracted to guys
>accept life as tranny
it ended up working out alright
there is a big part of me that feels very comfortable with my body changing and being on hrt

This thread is very interesting thank you anons. I've only recently started coming out to family and friends as gay but I'm almost certain there's more to it. Fantasizing about being a woman has been my favorite and best fantasy indulgence for many years.

Like I'll literally be having a fap sesh and dildoing myself meanwhile I'm constantly trying to remind myself playing with my penis is not really what I'm about here (it feels so good but i can only last like 30 mins) and I'll be fantasizing about being the woman in a threesome. Just typing that out and imagining being dped by two cute guys made me rock solid.

I can distinctly remember starting to fantasize about bondage, being tied up, playfully abused and dominated while lying down on my back, crossing my legs (right over left), clenching my genitals (without squeezing the nads of course, just the poor penis) and performing keegles to the point of orgasm when I was 4. Nothing would come out but I swear it was the exact same contractions as an orgasm. Once real fluid started coming out at 9 I stopped doing this (i still do it maybe 2-3 times a year for fun) and became fascinated with nudity (male and female, breasts and both sex's genitals) but this will always be my first kink.

Ive often reflected upon myself objectively and there's definitely gotta be something you're born with that does this. I didn't have exposure to nudity until 5 and was never mistreated or abused by anyone... my family travelled a lot there was no time to be abused and the first time i saw another naked person was 5 years old at a beach in Athens - I couldn't stop staring at all tits which my parents thought was hilarious.

>>7603351
Futa doesn't really exist, closest you have is people with vaginas and then big clitorises but not really anything you could use for penetration

>>7605864
Sounds pretty "normal" or at least common for trans/agps

>>7605865
good for him
some guys find a happy relationship and live fine

then at 35 y.o come out to their wife as trans

>>7606151
okay thats what i wanted to know, thanks

>>7605503
>depends on how dysphoric you are about sex and your penis
I wouldn't stick it in a vagina. Or any cis woman for that matter. But dudes and trannies are fair game.

>>7605745
What if its both? I mean that the guy is attractive to me but I also sometimes think about how hot it is that I'm much smaller and more feminine than him.

>>7605559
Both, like this anon >>7606480

>>7605965
Yes I suspect AGP is something that operates at a deeper level than conventional cismale gynephila. If it's just male sex drive gone awry due to ETLE it should only ever exist during puberty.

>>7605864
So wait, your saying that you indulged your pseudo androphilia and now it's starting to become a real attraction? I always figured you'd revert to normal and feel gross and dirty after ejaculating.

I'm suspecting my gynephilia might be set in stone from years of T exposure. But sometimes I crave dick in that AGP sorta way.

>>7606480
If you get off to him calling you his gf and imagine yourself as a girl during sex, you are getting off of your attraction towards yourself and the fact you are better gf for your man than any cis girl could ever be. A fantasy that can be fed by being in girls lingerie or being called a girl by your partner. If you are still thinking of yourself as a man however feminine you are a sub gay. A lot of younger guys with agp tend to switch back to their cis mode after getting off of their fantasy which just shows they are not attracted to guys but to their vision of their own role of being a girl.

Of course nothing is black and white with sexuality so you can have a bith of both or even mature sexually and intellectually and become honest to yourself and that's when you realize where you really stand on the spectrum which can be a strong agp with pseudo bi or just a feminine gay.

>>7607634
>If you get off to him calling you his gf and imagine yourself as a girl during sex, you are getting off of your attraction towards yourself
But that AGP pseudo-bi can happen alongside gay/female attraction to him.

>A lot of younger guys with agp tend to switch back to their cis mode after getting off of their fantasy
I don't really have a cis mode. I'm just extra feminine when I get treated like a girl.

>which just shows they are not attracted to guys but to their vision of their own role of being a girl.
If I wasn't attracted to guys apart from the vision of being a girl, wouldn't I go off them when I'm not getting off?

>>7607691
Yep, read the second paragraph.

>>7607746
I'm interested in which combinations of AGP pseudo bi and feminine gay happen.

>>7607753
If you really want an honest answer you'll have to wait until diagnostics advance to a level where you can get an understanding of specific neural pathways and their role in the complex mechanism that produces sexuality. Most of what we have now is pseudoscience.

I know guys who are back to being cis when they jerk off. I know guys who were like that but as they matured and their sexuality shaped up and the agp wasn't going away anymore even after jerking off. People can be anything when it comes to sexuality like being attracted to tiles on a wall and psychology isn't really an honest answer. If you want to understand your own sexuality better you may want to try a penile plethysmography and for best results two independent tests with different measure methods (both with rod and air).

>>7607845
It's mental, not neuroscience.

>>7579963
maybe hormonal imbalance, reserches showd childrenas young as 6 months old have different reactions to faces and movements due to testosterone, and alsoabsence of a male presence i think...

>>7607498
It used to be like that where I would feel disgusted after I came, but recently I don't feel that way anymore. Which kind of makes the attraction more real? Since I don't feel bad about it at all.

It might have to do with starting to think of myself as a trap now while in the past I was thinking of my self as a "sissy"

>>7608014
Maybe that's the point where it stops being a fetish and becomes your sexuality.

>It might have to do with starting to think of myself as a trap now while in the past I was thinking of my self as a "sissy"
What's the difference?

>>7608032
At least to me the sissy stuff always felt like it was being forced by someone else, not is a bad way really, just that I was doing it for some "master" or something, while now I feel like I'm doing it more for myself as a "trap". It also has effected my non masterbatory life as well more, since it means I regularly shave, and wear more cuter cloths daily, even though I do not want to transition at all (I'm pretty sure)

>>7608062
I thought that was called forced fem?

>>7608068
That is a thing, but this was just the vibe I was getting off of all the sissy stuff and how I felt when acting on any of it. I'm sure everyone doesn't feel that way, but I just felt very different when I thought of myself more as a trap than a sissy.

>>7608074
I like to imagine being turned into a girl by someone else forcefully, but I don't think of myself as sissy or trap. But maybe the vibe is the same and I just use a different word?

>>7607860
Is this bait?

>>7608195
No I just don't think my sexuality or gender is any different from any other thought I have.

>>7608206
Alright, so what is generating your thoughts?

Also you can't decide to be straight but you can decide to play a guitar so some of these thoughts are generated in different regions of the brain and are accessing different parts of memory no matter how connected they are. I worked in the diagnostic field of neurology and it always baffles me why people think mental is somehow different from the processes that are physically happening in the brain. The only difference is that mental diagnosis might have a source that is not a case of neuropathology (like thyroid).

>>7608237
>Also you can't decide to be straight but you can decide to play a guitar
False analogy. You can decide to do gay things just like you can decide to play a guitar. You can want to do gay things the same way you can want to play guitar.

>it always baffles me why people think mental is somehow different from the processes that are physically happening in the brain
Of course it's the physical processes. The images on your screen are caused by the physical processes in your computer. That doesn't make programming the field of a technician.

>>7608257
You can't decide whether you like guitars either but that's a topic for another debate. You can do something and eventually force yourself to like it (I hate food analogy but by constantly eating something you can develop a taste for it), but you still cannot voluntarily change whether you are gay or not. You may want to not be gay but that doesn't change anything.

A technician first has to explain to a programmer how the entire architecture works so the programmer can efficiently operate on it. You think your analogy is good but it's flawed because a typical program doesn't need a complete optimalization just because of resources avaliable and because most programmers operate on a well known standard architecture.

Medicine doesn't have that luxury. We know so little about the brain and our diagnostics are flawed as well. You won't get to understand how the brain works and how sexuality works by asking people questions but by actually mapping the corresponding regions and drug interactions. That's why drug effects vary so much from person to person. A psychologist doesn't know a lot (if anything) about actual neurology and yet is allowed to administer drugs but the administration is not optimized yet. Just a reminder that these drugs were developed by neuroscience.

>>7608328
>You can't decide whether you like guitars either but that's a topic for another debate.
>You can do something and eventually force yourself to like it
>by constantly eating something you can develop a taste for it
Make up your mind. Sexuality is nothing special, it's just like everything else.

>but it's flawed because a typical program doesn't need a complete optimalization just because of resources avaliable and because most programmers operate on a well known standard architecture.
The brain is the same. No need for a technician, no need for a neuroscientist.

>You won't get to understand how the brain works and how sexuality works by asking people questions but by actually mapping the corresponding regions and drug interactions.
Baseless assertion.

>Just a reminder that these drugs were developed by neuroscience.
Just a reminder that drugs are a shit way of influencing thoughts compared to words. You're trying to program by picking up a screwdriver.

>>7608378
You can't technically decide anything in your life if you want to play semantics but that's a completely different topic. We call it a choice but there isn't really any so stop being obtuse when I use layman to describe a situation.

Thanks for dismissing everything else by "you don't need that." The reality is very different from your idea and we wouldn't get anywhere thinking like that. It just shows how clueless you are if you think words are a solution. For example a trans person doesn't need some shitty words they need action and to know something is really happening. Words won't ever fix their problems.

Also drugs are a great way to gain new insights and understanding of yourself and others. Sober is just one state of being that is limited by specific neuroprofile.

>>7607634
>If you get off to him calling you his gf and imagine yourself as a girl during sex, you are getting off of your attraction towards yourself
Right, thats a known quantity.

>If you are still thinking of yourself as a man however feminine you are a sub gay.
I mean I always see myself as male in a scientific sense because its a biological fact. I see all transwomen as male, and I'm attracted to a lot of transwomen as well.

>A lot of younger guys with agp tend to switch back to their cis mode
Cis mode? You'll have to explain because I'm an out bisexual and I look like a femboy faggot in my day to day life. My default mode of expression is feminine. Its not like I'm putting on a costume for the sake of sex alone.

>not attracted to guys but to their vision of their own role of being a girl.
I'm attracted to a rather narrow band of guys, but I am attracted to guys. I'm not really into bears or daddies, but ottermode guys, normies, androgynous dudes, femboys are all fair game.

It might also be worth noting that I don't particularly find ciswomen that attractive. Like, could they get me aroused? Yeah probably. But I don't want to have sex with them. In pretty much all instances I would choose a transwoman over a ciswoman just because vaginas outside my AGP fantasies weird me out.

>pseudo bi or just a feminine gay
I don't mean to sound confrontational, but you do know that bisexual guys exist, right? Like its not just a choice between "pseudo bi" and "fem gay".

Follow up question for the thread, how many of you actually believe in innate and immutable sexual orientation?

If you do why, if not why? I'm curious.

>>7609328
I didn't mean to say it's either pseudo bi or gay. As I've said sexuality is not black and white and you can be basically anywhere on the spectrum and a combination of many different things. As I said you can be sexually attracted to tiles on a wall or a geographical location.

>Cis mode?
There are a lot of guys who are into it (being a girl) and are aroused by their fantasies but once they orgasm the agp is lost for a while. They may even be disgusted by their previous actions. Some examples are even in this thread.

>>7609373
I don't have a definitive answer but I believe some shades of sexuality are a product of genetic development (like testosterone levels during pregnancy) and others a product of the environment. We can observe sexual behaviour in other animals and they follow up similar development without having any society or concept of genders. So there is an innate mechanism that produces mostly cis people who may have or develop various fetishes during life. I for example didn't know I am agp until I read about it and it was for the first time somebody else described how I felt inside. Up to that point I was very confused because I wasn't attracted to guys and I enjoyed my cis guy life without wanting to transition to a girl yet I wanted to have sex with men in some way.

>>7608014
>>7608062
I don't think the sissy stuff is good for oneself tbqh. Trap/crossdresser is a psychologically healthier identity in my opinion.

>>7609627
But it's hottest when I imagine I'm a girl against my consent. What's psychologically unhealthy about that?

>>7609627
I think I'm seeing that as well, I'm much happier under this trap mindset

I'm 90% sure I'm not transgender, but I can't help but get insanely jealous when I see transgirls that either pass, turn out really cute or both.
Not just looks either, good voice too will set me off.

>>7609627
I can see why the sissy stuff holds appeal for some people. Its the allure of the lack of agency. From a young age males are raised to always be in control, be stoic, get this kind of job, marry that kind of woman. Sissification is the opposite of that. You let someone else decide for you. You can indulge all those fantasies about being passive and submissive because for once in your life someone else is in control of everything. I think a lot of males with natural feminine tendencies buy into it because they're desperate for any outlet to express themselves, but too afraid to own it. So forced feminization and sissy shit becomes their go-to fetish.

I agree that the trap / CD mentality is definitely healthier from a mental standpoint. You should own what you are and not be ashamed of being a feminine male and just roll with it. Indulging in sissy shit all the time is unhealthy for you because it will create the same problematic relationship that many women have with femininity. It becomes a straightjacket. I think what we call AGP now is largely a result of repression finding an outlet through sexual emasculation. The distinction might seem subtle to some, but I believe there's a difference between simple fantasies of female or feminine embodiment and forced emasculation. And the former doesn't seem nearly as unhealthy as the latter.

I believe overall there would be far less cases of what we call AGP if males were just allowed to be as feminine as women are allowed to be masculine. If use of hormones to alter the body weren't stigmatized people would just change their bodies because they felt more comfortable that way and it wouldn't have a chance to become a 'fetish'.

>>7609874
did you just blame society

>>7609874
So my agp is just a repressed trans?

>>7609966
There's a reason he used 3 paragraphs, things aren't that simple.

>>7609892
In a manner of speaking, yes. Do you think the beliefs that society collectively expresses holds no influence over the beliefs of individuals? Human nature isn't some pre programmed biblical nonsense like original sin, its a set of ideas built on the entire history of social relationships through which humanity views itself.

That isn't to say that there aren't biological explanations for things. The desire to be female or feminine may be a biological urge that forms because of genetics or hormones. I am very open to this possibility. But I'm not convinced that the desire for sissification and emasculation is anything but a product of society producing individuals whose sense of self is warped by thousands of years of proscriptive gender roles.

>>7610021
I don't think it's particularly detrimental. We evolved this way for a reason, as a species and as a society. This gender stuff is an issue for sure, but not a pressing one.

And that's all speculation with no proof or relevance, but something to think about I guess.

>>7609874
>I think a lot of males with natural feminine tendencies buy into it because they're desperate for any outlet to express themselves, but too afraid to own it. So forced feminization and sissy shit becomes their go-to fetish.
Women get to be submissive, so even without feminine tendencies already, the fantasy of being a girl is an outlet.

>Indulging in sissy shit all the time is unhealthy for you because it will create the same problematic relationship that many women have with femininity. It becomes a straightjacket.
What is this problematic relationship women have with femininity?

>I think what we call AGP now is largely a result of repression finding an outlet through sexual emasculation.
AGP doesn't have to be emasculating. Last thread there was an AGP trans girl wanting to femdom guys. It often is though.

>I believe overall there would be far less cases of what we call AGP if males were just allowed to be as feminine as women are allowed to be masculine.
Men should get to be even more feminine than that, and women should get to be even more masculine than they are allowed to be. But just getting to be as feminine as women can be masculine would be a huge start.

new /repgen/ - Repression General is now open >>7607819

>>7610471
Why do you think I am repressing this?

>>7610485
I don't but a lot of agps are.

>>7610510
A lot of agps are repressing what, agp or trans?

>>7610575
Trans/trans-like feelings from AGP.

>>7610318
>What is this problematic relationship women have with femininity?
I think men and women both feel trapped by their gender roles sometimes. Women obviously have more leeway and more encouragement to step outside those boundaries, but the experience can still feel as if they're being coerced into femininity in a way they aren't comfortable with. I think the sissy fetish can be like this. Which is why I see it as unhealthy for many people.

>AGP doesn't have to be emasculating. Last thread there was an AGP trans girl wanting to femdom guys. It often is though.
You're right of course. But I was talking about extreme emasculation and sissification rather than the AGP itself.

I think the original creators of the AGP hypothesis made the mistake of expanding it far beyond the point of being useful. They made an interesting observation that some male bodied people have (sexual and non sexual) fantasies of female embodiment and/or of occupying a female social role, but they cherry picked data and invented increasingly complicated subtypes when they couldn't make everyone fit neatly into the box they'd built. I don't personally believe that there is any inherent meaning to being AGP beyond having fantasies of being feminine. Any moral weight attached to it is, in my opinion, unwarranted.

>Men should get to be even more feminine than that, and women should get to be even more masculine than they are allowed to be.
Absolutely agree. But I don't expect it to happen overnight, or even in my lifetime. Social changes often happen in baby steps. We don't have to be content with the current state of affairs, but we should appreciate all progress made.

>>7610598
But what about people like me who "act out" the idea and become traps, even though I don't want to transition at all. Does that still fall under AGP for you or is that something else entirely?

>>7608567
>You can't technically decide anything in your life if you want to play semantics
I don't want to play semantics... I've only used laymans terms too. You made contradictory claims for different examples. Which one is it? No semantics.

>Thanks for dismissing everything else by "you don't need that." The reality is very different from your idea and we wouldn't get anywhere thinking like that. It just shows how clueless you are if you think words are a solution.
You're literally just saying "ur wrong" after I gave a precise example, using your knowledge about optimization and standard architecture, of how the mind can be helped without tampering with the brain.

>For example a trans person doesn't need some shitty words they need action and to know something is really happening. Words won't ever fix their problems.
That's a cherry picked example, but the fact is you already agree with what I'm saying in most cases, unless you're throwing all of psychiatry out of the window and saying ti should just be replaced with drugging up everyone in need of help.

>Also drugs are a great way to gain new insights and understanding of yourself and others. Sober is just one state of being that is limited by specific neuroprofile.
Don't be so closed minded. You don't need to be under the influence to learn about yourself. Again, you're medicalizing the mind and in doing so denying basic knowledge and thinking. Introspection is a real thing.

>>7610638
Whether you act on it or not is immaterial. You can experience these fantasies with or without the desire to transition. Like an anon further up said, its complicated. You may be content to just crossdress and take pictures for guys to look at and compliment you on how cute you are. Or maybe you come to the conclusion that you're upset with being physically masculine and you want to take hormones to alleviate those feelings. All of us share common threads, but the exact nature of and extent to which we're willing to change ourselves will differ regardless of whether we call ourselves transgender, women, crossdressers, femboys, etc.

>>7610598
>I think men and women both feel trapped by their gender roles sometimes.
>but the experience can still feel as if they're being coerced into femininity in a way they aren't comfortable with.
I believe that. But which parts exactly or in which circumstances would it feel coerced and uncomfortable?

>I think the sissy fetish can be like this.
Maybe your answer to the last question will make this obvious, but how so? Having coerced femininity as a fetish is different from the experience women can have of actually being coerced into being feminine, even ignoring the fact that as a fetish it's a thing for men socially pressured to be masculine and as a real experience it's women who aren't pressured to be masculine.

>You're right of course. But I was talking about extreme emasculation and sissification rather than the AGP itself.
So it's the sissification that's the outlet for repression? Repressed AGP or something else?

>I think the original creators of the AGP hypothesis made the mistake of expanding it far beyond the point of being useful.
>I don't personally believe that there is any inherent meaning to being AGP beyond having fantasies of being feminine. Any moral weight attached to it is, in my opinion, unwarranted.
I agree the creators over-defined it, as a type of transsexuality and excluding other forms of transsexuality. But it does have implications beyond being fantasies of being feminine, since it's so common for trans people and also commonly associated with certain other fetishes, like pseudo-bisexuality and these extreme emasculation and sissification fetishes.

>Social changes often happen in baby steps. We don't have to be content with the current state of affairs, but we should appreciate all progress made.
What are the next steps though? How can we keep it moving?

>>7610654
Alright I'll bite. You can make a conscious decision about a musical instrument but you cannot make a conscious decision about your sexual attraction and identity. Not every thought is equal. You are programmed to have a fear of loud noises.

The problem with your technician example is that you think pseudoscience is what's needed and not the true hard science that brings up relevant data for those psychiatrists. Assumptions on which psychiatry operates is often biased but you can't be biased about neurotransmitter production for example.

I don't know how much experience you have in the field but currently practical psychiatry is all about pumping people with unnecessary drugs while neuroscience is trying to find new and better (and more profitable) treatment methods. I am opposed to medication where it's harmful. I myself treated kids who were on antiepileptics just because they experienced a minor anxiety attack (clear EEG) because the guy who prescribed them just wanted to call it a day. The only thing that always in my practice was improving the condition of people in general was some technological advancement that simply allowed for better diagnostic methods in neurology. Comparing that to psychiatry which is only half serious about itself and often brought up biased research I am afraid we two have very different views on the problem and about achieving a panacea for all mental disorders.

I honestly believe every person should be properly educated on drugs and all drugs should be legal. I am not defending crushing opiate pills every day but I do believe responsible drug use is a way to gain new and objectively good insights. The thing about introspection is that you cannot introspect yourself into a psychedelic experience. You cannot introspect yourself into a cannabis experience. But you know what you can if you are a psychiatrist? Prescribe amphetamines to a kid before puberty.

>>7611008
>Alright I'll bite. You can make a conscious decision about a musical instrument but you cannot make a conscious decision about your sexual attraction and identity.
Quit it with the baseless assertions. I've already called you out once on that bullshit.

>The problem with your technician example is that you think pseudoscience is what's needed and not the true hard science that brings up relevant data for those psychiatrists. Assumptions on which psychiatry operates is often biased but you can't be biased about neurotransmitter production for example.
Understanding how to communicate, whether with a person to help them with things like sexual issues or in the technician vs programmer example via programming, is not pseudoscience. As you yourself said, there is an understood architecture (language and conscious thought, for psychiatry) that can be used. Just because this isn't a hard science doesn't make it pseudoscience. It's still real and it still works.

>but currently practical psychiatry is all about pumping people with unnecessary drugs while neuroscience is trying to find new and better (and more profitable) treatment methods.
>Comparing that to psychiatry which is only half serious about itself and often brought up biased research I am afraid we two have very different views on the problem and about achieving a panacea for all mental disorders.
I'm not in favor of pumping people full of drugs for psychiatric or any other reasons. Genuine neuroscience discovering genuine medical treatments for actual medical issues like seizures are great. But thoughts like wanting to play a guitar or AGP aren't that field.

"We'll invent a drug for that" is not a panacea for the human condition, sexually and otherwise.

Our positions on drug legality isn't really relevant.

I used to only feel this way when I was turned on, but now I have a bf, and I feel this way always. Not that it is a bad thing.

>>7611494
Is it always when you're around him? He could be making you feel feminine and turning on your pseudo-bisexuality.

>Not that it is a bad thing.
Of course not. The dream sexuality is to be a cis girl and have AGP.

new /agpg/ >>7612857

>>7611335
>Quit it with the baseless assertions.
Just because you say I am wrong doesn't make it so.

I am sorry but it is pseudoscience since you are coming to conclusions through assumptions and not unbiased data.

It's not only about inventing new drugs but also new methods completely. For example you can manipulate neural activation just by specific visual stimuli and this can be used to achieve meditation in anxious person.

And again just because you say something is not x doesn't make you right. This is truly a pointless discussion. Just out of curiosity what is your occupation?