Double Standards

>>7531011

People saying that women can do anything and are just as strong as men, but then saying men can't be raped.

>>7531011
If you're ugly and unfashionable as a guy, nobody cares -- men are gross, right? If you have a good personality and are a capable person, you're fine. (The downside of this is that if you're attractive but catty and useless, people will hate you.)

As a chick, being ugly and unfashionable is social suicide. Even if you're a charismatic, useful, and nice person, people will avoid you on principle. You'll have a hard time getting hired unless you cover that shit in an inch of makeup. (The upside to this is that you can be beautiful and a bitch and people will put up with you as a trophy.)

Not the worst problem ever, but it's one that comes to mind.
t. FTM

>>7531087
exactly! men are more focused on physical attractiveness than women, so women are more physically attractive. it's their most important trait. the sexual characteristics of women exist solely to make them more attractive!
and very few women are genuinely ugly at a normal weight -- same deal for men, somewhat, a lot of 'ugliness' is just poor diet and grooming
i am not sympathetic in the slightest when women bitch about how being ugly is ruining their lives, they can fix it easily and have an easier life than any man
t. ftm

OP here, I started this thread after an earlier thread on /r9k/ about double standards with an MTF and an FTM sharing their experiences.

MTF >>>/r9k/33936187
FTM >>>/r9k/33944346

The thread is still up with loads more double standards, like circumcision, but this board probably has more experience and better examples than /r9k/.

>>7531033
There's a pretty good stand-up joke in there somewhere

>>7531087
I think the funny part is that as a man you're almost always stuck being average and unable to stand out without a lot of work and therefore get little/no attention from others. Compliments, kindness, help, etc... and that drove me fucking mad.

As a girl it's like a cieling has been lifted and i finally have value beyond money or fodder and people actually treat me better because of it.

I guess you could say that being male gives you a more average go but being female offers more extremes.

T. Mtf

P.s. I wonder how many thing i hated about being male you now enjoy and cice versa.

>>7531087
>[as a man] if you're attractive but catty and useless, people will hate you.
homophobia explained in one sentence, right there

>>7531011
Being circumcised

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I'm MtF and now that I'm a daughter, my dad gets mad when I curse and says it's unladylike. I'm from a family where everyone curses casually, even my mom ("I saw this fucking idiot on the news the other day, and he said..."), so this makes no sense at all. Even when it's considered socially-justified (like jamming my finger in a door or dropping something heavy on my foot) he gets mad. It's stupid. Also, I've found that since I transitioned socially my college professors are much more lenient with me when I ask if I can turn something in late or make an edit to a paper or whatever. I'm not sure if that's a gender-based thing or just something that comes with taking upper level courses in my major, but I have found that outing myself as a transsexual (or just LGBT in general) to my more left-wing professors (i.e. the socialist crackpot ones who spend more time soapboxing than lecturing) gets me better treatment in class discussions and more lenient critiques of my papers. It's pretty sad that they're so brainwashed into the whole oppression conspiracy narrative that they will act differently towards me once they know that I'm a minority, but there's nothing I can do about that, so I'll just use it to my advantage when I need to get out of a bind.

>>7531629
>I guess you could say that being male gives you a more average go but being female offers more extremes
it's the exact opposite
women can't really fail but can't really succeed either
if you're a man you either fail or succeed, no middle ground
t. ftm, same as >>7531111

>>7531719
Your dad is attracted to you, and you acting like a normal teenage girl instead of a hyperfeminine stereotype is ruining his fantasy.

>>7531719
>I'll just use it to my advantage when I need to get out of a bind.
Disgusting

>>7531723
Agreed, >>7531629 is misinterpreting her male experience of being a failure as having been "average", possibly due to the high volume of failures compared to successes among men

>>7531719
>so I'll just use it to my advantage when I need to get out of a bind.

I barely ever out myself to teachers because it's already EZ mode just to be a cis girl, but I have to admit I have written "soapbox papers" about being trans when I don't have time to write a better research paper and I still want an A or a B. They're still good papers, but it's kinda cheating to focus on my own experience rather than data.

>>7531733
That's pretty fucking gross, but you're probably right to some extent. I wear flannel in fall and winter, which he also doesn't like and has mentioned a couple times ("you know, you'd probably look much better if you wore a blouse today instead"). I don't really pay any attention to it though, because fuck wearing some thin boat-neck blouse under my jacket when it's cold as shit. Drinking beer on occasion is another thing. Once we ordered a pizza when I was at home over the holidays, so I cracked open a Corona with it. My dad literally went and bought a pack of these little champagne bottles called "Barefoot Bubbly Pink Moscato" and put it in the fridge next to my leftovers the day after. They were pretty good for some cheap fruity champagne things, but sometimes I just want to have a fucking beer.
>>7531737
>not doing whatever you have to to get ahead in life
Passing classes and getting a diploma and a good job so I can afford surgery and live the cozy life is more important to me than any ideological principles I may hold. Get fucked.

>>7531765
Same. My freshman year I had to take some bullshit classes for GE. One was to cover a "social justice" lower division GE credit (I wish I were kidding). I took "Introduction to Women's and Gender Studies" and it was the weirdest class ever because we never talked about women throughout the whole thing. You'd think it was going to be like an introductory overview of the history and basic concepts with the suffragettes and the Seneca Falls Convention and the different waves of feminist thinkers and all that, but no. All we ever talked about was black men and the civil rights of retarded people. All of my papers involved my being trans and bisexual and growing up poor, with some social justice buzzwords and stuff interspersed with it. Easy A.

>>7531790
>"you know, you'd probably look much better if you wore a blouse today instead"

holy fuck i'm sorry

your dad wants to fuck you

ugghghgh grossssss

>>7531790
>>7531830
Whoa yeah.... He doesn't even let you drink beer.... He's so caught up in what a woman "should be" that he actually went out and bought "girly drinks" for you.....

Fuck. I mean he's obviously attracted to you on some level, but are you sure he's not also closeted AGP?

>>7531830
It's pretty awful. I wish it was my stepbrother that wanted to fuck me (my parents remarried when he and I were already college-aged, so it's not even super incest-y), but he treats me like I was his actual, biological sister that he grew up with. It's nice in a way, because he's very protective and kind and all that, but it's torture having to live with a guy that hot and sensitive when I'm not at college.

>>7531867
I wish I had a brother like that. Or any sibling like that.

>>7531862
I'm pretty sure my grandpa was closeted trans or AGP, because in his last few months when his mind was slipping he "accidentally" bought lip gloss instead of chapstick, fancy women's shampoo instead of the cheapo working man stuff he'd used his whole life, and a fuschia jacket that he swore looked crimson red at the store. He also had next to nothing in his closet when my mom went through it after he died, which makes me think he may have tossed it in a dumpster to hide the fact that he was a crossdresser or whatever. If being a tranny is genetic, maybe it skips a generation and leaves the in-between kid AGP or AAP. Fuck if I know.

>>7531885
agp runs strongly in families, both in its transsexual and transvestite forms (which are the same, the former being an occasional progression of the latter)
aap presumably does as well, but it wouldn't be the same families -- non-a*p mtf and ftm transsexualism run in different families

>>7531830
>>7531862
>a conservative father wants his daughter to act like a proper woman
>HE'S AGP
>HE WANTS TO FUCK YOU

Christ, 4chan, not even once. Not everyone is as awful as you.

>>7531867
my brother would have raped me if I'd been born cis & killed me if he knew I was trans so... at least you have someone amazing like that in your life and maybe just accept him for it

i mean i understand if you think it's a really hot situation but i think you should think more about how valuable your current relationship is

>>7531964
I'm the beer-drinking, flannel-wearing loser of an MtF in this thread and my dad is an immigrant from Denmark who thought Bernie was a little too conservative for his tastes.

>>7531973
Even if he's a leftist, he can still have an appreciation for traditional femininity.

>>7531964
what conservative dad goes out and buys girly booze because their daughter drank a beer?

a) she shouldn't be drinking and
b) if she's old enough to drink she needs to get a job and buy her own alcohol

wtf is wrong with a young woman enjoying a beer anyway? I've always known cis girls that drink beer

>>7531980
>what conservative dad goes out and buys girly booze because their daughter drank a beer?
One who likes to get nice things for their child?

>>7531969
I know I'm fortunate to have him, which is why I said it was nice and all that. At the same time, though, I'm also drooling over the thought of having his cum dribbling down my throat and all over my face.

>>7531986
Flannel-chan's dad detected.

>>7531989
Nah, just a trans girl with an abusive as fuck dad who envies people who actually have loving fathers.

yabbut now we know he's danish and if there's anything I know about danes it's that they're racist

also they like fucked up porn and live on a tiny island so i'm assuming they're cool with inbreeding

tell your dad to stop being so creepy, don't have to be specific. or don't but yiiiiicccckk

>>7531994
There's nothing loving about forcing useless gender stereotypes on your kids.

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>>7531033
its about everything
women can do anything and get away with it, all the rights and no responsibilities
anything women are unable to do or get should be handled to them on a plate, at the expense of men of course
women in *wealthy*(its important to note) *western* societies are treated like spoiled babies

>>7531087
>As a chick, being ugly is social suicide

it's true, being an ugly girl is death

but being an ugly dude is horrendous too, people will unconsciously see you as shit, not only girls will avoid you and you will be forever alone, boys will be unfriendly as well
and you will get discriminated at schools and jobs if you are really unattractive man

>>7532181
Yes there is. Most people enjoy gender roles to some degree. They are good for society amd the family as well.

>>7532300
I feel like it's mostly weird cause it's her dad.

If I had a bf who teased me about this stuff, I'd just blush and sip my girly drink.

>>7531183
So, from those two posts, it seems like no matter if you're male or female, social expectations are still bullshit, just a different kind of bullshit.
So gender is a Morton's Fork.

>>7531947
>tfw want kids, but if they turn out trans like me and then I get no grand kids

>>7532667
>So gender is a Morton's Fork.
That's a reasonable conclusion.

Women are given innate value in society, but restricted by achieving much more than that innate value.

Men can achieve value through work and sacrifice, but there is no social safety net for men who fail or who don't try enough.

>>7532238
But if you're kinda ugly as a chick, that's enough to be an outcast.

As a guy you have to be improbably ugly to be treated that way. The standard is way, way lower.

>>7531867
He doesn't want to fuck you, goddamit.

He wishes you to become a proper lady.

WTF is wrong with you, millenials?

I guess it is too much porn.

>>7531790
>That's pretty fucking gross, but you're probably right to some extent.
He isn't attracted to you more than any father who applies his standards for female behavior to his daughter.

>>7533160
On the other hand, you can be attractive as a guy but still be an outcast if you aren't outgoing and confident. At least unattractive girls have makeup or plastic surgery to improve physical appearance. Wish there was some medical procedure that would permanently boost someones self-esteem and confidence and only had a 1-2 week recovery time, or even better something you could apply to your skin that would do the same for a 12 hour period with no side effects.

>>7533424
This desu. Society is so screwed, wanting your daughter to grow up well adjusted is seen as evidence that you want to fuck your daughter. Feminism has destroyed femininity so successfully it is seen as nothing more than an odd sexual fetish.

>>7534369
Being inhibited from drinking beer, swearing, and wearing flannel is not "well adjusted".

>>7534456
Those are your cultural values. Ones which are only really held by Western Europeans and their descendants.

>>7531862
>tfw my attractive dad will never fug me
;-;

>>7534499
Why not anon?

>just transgirl feels

>>7534488
I'm not that anon, but one can be Western cultured without conforming to stereotypes like that. Trans girls shouldn't be pressured to abandon boyish habits.

>>7534692
I'm saying the opposite. Western culture (protestant Europeans in particular) believes that gender stereotypes are wrong. The rest of us largely believe that women should act like women, and trans girls should abandon boyish habits. Saying the father is creepy or bad because of one culture's feelings on gender is wrong.

>>7534766
What's so good about non-Western cultures wanting girls, in this case trans girls, to abandon boyish habits?

>>7534781
Women typically enjoy it, men typically enjoy it, it's better for society, it's the way it has always been done.

>>7535010
It's enjoyable not to filter your behavior to conform to stereotypes, especially if you weren't even raised with the "correct" socialization for your identity. Trans girls should be free to keep any particular bit of male socialization if they enjoy it and it feels natural to them.

Trans women are crazy testosterone filled rapist beasts.
Trans men are perfectly calm, stable examples of what trans people should be.

>>7535081
>women are crazy hormone filled rapist beasts.
>men are perfectly calm, stable examples of what people should be.
FTFY

Female chasers get away with things a guy never would
>>7535500
>Since women have little social pressure to contain their perversion, they act like total creeps.
>>7535772
>true true true fampai. I love my gf but she has no qualms with groping me whenever(random boob touching in public, when I'm around my family, etc.) and used to make a game of pulling my shirt tight from behind so you my tits were visible whenever I was out in public in boymode.

>>7534488
And the fact that you'd so willingly abandon these western concepts of freedom is gross. Come on anon, liberty is a beautiful thing. Let trannies drink beer

>>7539911
thx m8

>>7539911
>abandon
I may have been raised in the West, but it was by slav family who taught me better. You can't abandon what you never had.

>>7531011
when you're boymode and the hairdresser doesn't want to give you girl hairstyle or treatment, or cuts your hair short

when you're boymode and buying creams or god forbid make up in person

when you're boymode and they tell you to go do physical work cause you're a boy or whatever

etc etc

>>7534692
I WANT MY CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.

>>7535026
Yes because it's totally not like the rates of depression and suicides have skyrocketed among women since we've collectively abandoned those norms.

NOT AT ALL.

Look,I'm sure there is a small minority that doesn't conform, but it is for the good of society, feminism has brainwashed women into thinking that they basically want to be men-lite, but without the work.

I'm just gonna say it, the majority of women 80%+ would be happier as housewives raising children, only the remaining 10-20% are happier at work

>>7541122
is is the gender norms causing the problems or the willful subversion of functional society by ignorant conservative types unwilling to accept modernity?

most of the reason my issues are problems is that i was raised in a conservative us culture and i know i can't survive if i don't force myself to integrate into their expectations

except it also keeps a deep emotional wound festering

the conflict between an oppressive authoritarian society and a liberated, empathy-based mindset has caused me a lot of problem. but i firmly believe society is the problem, not me, and will try to do my part to continue its improvement for the better

>>7541181
>oppressive authoritarian society
No one is stopping you from buying a plane ticket to the Amazon jungle.

>>7541181

>Men and women don't kill themselves particularly often
>Feminists violently promote the idea that gender is evil until that idea is absorbed into large factions of society
>Men and women kill themselves very often

... Must be something other than feminism what caused it

>>7541244
i just moved out of shitty racist texas suburbs to a state with public services and people more ideologically aligned with myself

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>>7531011
I have experienced no double standards. I've been treated pretty much exactly the same as either gender. When I ask people if they see me as a guy or a girl they always say that they see me as just "Anon".

>>7541122
Just like women who want to be housewives shouldn't be pressured into careers, women who don't shouldn't be pressured into housewifehood. It's staggering how you don't see that your own logic goes both ways.

Besides which a trans girl can perfectly easily drink beer, wear flannel and swear and still be a housewife. Quit moving the goalposts. Nobody was talking about women going to work.

>>7541078
>when you're boymode and they tell you to go do physical work cause you're a boy or whatever
>etc etc
I hate this so much. I'm not transitioning but this more than anything else that I'm subjected to makes me wish I was.

What else?

>>7541767
>tfw parents and school tried to make you do a trade
>nope.jpg
>One sister ends up being a truck driver and the other an electrician
>Brother is currently doing office admin bullshit (he hates it, but for the sake of this tale...)

Time to get into earth moving like I've always wanted and fit the gender stereotype of my family, I guess

>>7531111
You may be ftm but you still type like a woman.

Not trying to be mean just trying to help you improve your man game my dude.

>>7541272
>People don't kill themselves particularly often
>Modern science advances to the point where people live longer healthier lives
>People start killing themselves more often

I guess it was jus modern health care huh :^D fug

>>7541305
>I have experienced no double standards.
Unlikely.

>>7532966
this

>>7542812
You seriously think women love being in the workforce?

>>7546931
Yes, because the alternative is to be a servant.
The better alternative is to live off investments of course.

>>7546990
Well you're obviously a cis guy.

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>>7547039
Thank you

>>7531111
>i am not sympathetic in the slightest when women bitch about how being ugly is ruining their lives, they can fix it easily and have an easier life than any man
I don't buy it. I've made a fair share of girls who are at normal weight and have good skin and hair, but their facial bone structure just looks like shit. There's not much you can do about that.

>>7546990
>>7547415
Obviously the point is women don't care about not being servants as much as guys do.

>>7547481
so they can't get surgery but every tranny gotta have ffs to pass? fuck off

>>7541109
How is it wrong to want to be a girl and not have to conform to stupid things like not wearing flannel, drinking beer or swearing?

>>7547481
i've seen a lot of ugly girls, but almost always they're ugly without makeup
and desu 'attractive' to a guy just means 'not fat' unless you're legitimately trying to get some 6'3" 10" dick chad or be rupert murdoch's sugar baby

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>>7547507
>guys avoid being cucks

>>7549396
>get to live a peaceful protected life looked after by someone who loves you
>people still say you're the one getting cucked
no anon, true cuckoldry is being a het guy.

come on, it's not even hidden. caring more about her pleasure than his own? everybody knows this stuff.