/agpg/ - AGP General

can this be "Christmas a shit, boxing day best day" edition?

When do we put all the degenerates in a Lager and gas them there gaymo?

What triggers your AGP the most?

For me it's cute girls in swimwear and sleepwear.

Why do you guys embrace something so damaging to the trans community? I mean you do you I have no problem with that but I just don't get self identifying with a label that is either frowned upon or shut down as pseudo science.

>>7469413
When "the trans community" stops being at least as bad as cis people at pushing people into roles they don't want and pressuring people into/against transitioning, I'll give a shit about it.

>>7469433
I mean you're already umbrellaed into it all things considered..

>>7469447
Exactly: being under an umbrella that screws you over isn't very nice.

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>>7469336
Was talking about this on an old agp thread

When crossdressing the flat 'mound' between my legs after tucking triggers me so much. It's just so feminine that the idea that it's me is amazingly hot

>pic is what started the conversation with the other guy

>>7469413
What do you mean by damaging?
Also I'm not the most well read on this stuff but how is AGP pseudoscience?

It's not some great self-identity it's litterally the same as saying 'I have a fetish for looking/acting like a girl'

If someone said that to you (in an appropriate fashion/conversation) would you really say 'no, you're wrong, you can't possibly be into that. The idea that a person could be is a work of fiction'

>>7469521
They mean they can't shoehorn it into either people a fetish or being transness, which breaks the narrative that being trans is an innate special thing incomparable to anything else (gender identity) and nothing to do with sex or fetishes, which are what everything else is besides identity and orientation.

>>7469502
>doll up
>look feminine af
>get aroused
>boner ruins tuck
>big reminder of being male
>suddenly not feminine
AGP is a Catch 22!

>>7469561
I've normally got athletes tape keeping the tuck tight, I'm not breaking out of that no matter how turned on I get. Another big agp thing for me is the idea of using a vibrator while tucked/taped. It sounds hot but I've never done it and don't know if it'd live up to the fantasy

>>7469620
>It sounds hot but I've never done it and don't know if it'd live up to the fantasy
So many things sound hot but would be best as a cis girl and are either worse, trickier or impossible as a male. It's a pity.

>>7469255
fuck off leaf!

>>7469413
>"""""""""""""""""""""""damaging"""""""""""""""""""""""
trannies are mostly retarded and there is nothing wrong with using words that accurately describe my situation

>>7469413
I agree that the label itself is very problematic but I feel like the trans community does much to shut down any discussion of this sort of arousal which pushes a lot of people into repressing. There needs to be a word for this so people can find it and be told they're legitimate. I'd prefer it if we used a different term that did not originate from Blanchard's work but the community here likes it so there isn't much to do. It beats the alternative of people thinking they're weird perverts and not trans.

Also
>you guys
rude desu senpai

>>7469561
it totally is
dont want to blogpost about being a degenerate but Im really lost and dont know what I want, maybe a total mindwipe

>>7469521
>Also I'm not the most well read on this stuff but how is AGP pseudoscience?
The tl;dr is that the psychologist who came up with AGP tried to go "since X and Y show up together at a high rate and Y shows up after X it is obvious that X causes Y" which is not really how things work. There are other factors, such as the guy relying on self reports from patients but dismissing those that did not fit his hypothesis because the only reason anyone would say something contrary to his theories is that they were too embarrassed to admit the truth, but that's the big one.

>>7470582
The word means something more specific than you probably think it does. When one uses a term from a certain work that term carries the entirety of the connotations ascribed to it by that work. For example, when you say Radical Freedom you don't just mean freedom that is radical, but the meaning given to the term by Sartre. Likewise for AGP and Blanchard.

>>7470918
Anon this is a Sad Blog thread. Blog away.

>>7470941
autism.

>>7470964
Anti-intellectualism.

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>>7470966

>>7470967
I was here before reddit existed and I'm not going anywhere.

>>7470970
feel free to stay, but keep your autistic screeching to yourself. thanks!

>>7470974
would be great if you would do that

>>7470974
Sorry, I won't let you have your echo chamber. That's not the purpose of this site. Learn to stand up for your opinions or lie down and take it.

>>7470944
thank you, but I'd rather forget
I'm tired of fluctuating between wanting feminization and being horny and anxious and feeling like its all pointless and wanting to never wakeup

>>7470582
>trannies are mostly retarded and there is nothing wrong with using words that accurately describe my situation
Why did trannies end up so retarded? it's a shame, if they weren't we could mutually help each other understand ourselves.

>>7473725
because generally the first people who get to them and not tell them they're disgusting pieces of shit degenerates who should kill themselves are SJWs, so they end up getting indoctrinated

>>7473775
>not accepting you're a disgusting degenerate and living with it while keeping whatever views you otherwise had

>>7473821
hey don't memetext me!

>>7473775
>implying the stuff 'SJWs' say isn't mostly true and correct

>>7473897
that's pretty much how i actually feel.

>>7473951
>women are oppressed and objectified victims and there is no such thing as female privilege
>mostly true and correct
only if the exception to that mostly is "wo" and "fe"

Anyone got thoughts or experiences on transitioning as an AGP?

I definitely have gender dysphoria, but experiencing AGP with it makes me feel in some ways that it's "invalid," and in others that it may result in my making sexuality way too large a factor in my life. I've experienced generally increased happiness in my 4 months on hormones, but whether I REALLY want to be a woman is not totally clear to me.

>>7474097
>>women are oppressed and objectified victims and there is no such thing as female privilege
>>mostly true and correct
>only if the exception to that mostly is "wo" and "fe"
my dude, it can be both, easily.

There are privileges and disadvantages associated with being either gender, and they manifest very differently. The trouble I see with the SJW approach is that it is way too unilateral, universalizing, and oversimplifying, and I fail to see how its reactionary opposite (i.e. MRA stuff, or talking about female privilege exclusively) is really any more informed or less biased.

>>7474217
>my dude, it can be both, easily.
i'm not your dude.
it can but it isn't.

>>7474268
The notion that privilege is experienced unilaterally based on gender alone without regard to subjective experience, subject-positionality, and individual variation is stupendously ridiculous

>>7474528
Nobody said that. Fuck off with your feminist strawmen.

>>7474539
>There is no such thing as male privilege
Kill yourself, my dude

>>7474555
The kind face of the liberal left, revealed.

Remember, it's the right that's full of hate!

Friendly Reminder this is not the feminism thread nor is feminism on topic for /lgbt/

I wonder What's the percentage split between agp's who are trans, agp's who CD, and agp's who are content just being agp mentally

>>7474831
it would be interesting to know but unfortunately anything we could do would be highly biased by selection

>>7474831
You need a venn diagram or just a 3D axis for that.

>>7475015
...and data

>>7475015
Was thinking a pie chart, the 3 things are discrete right?
>>7475042
Fucking data, always getting in the way of shit I think being true

>>7475042
Yes but my point is it isn't a simple percentage split.

>>7475062
>Was thinking a pie chart, the 3 things are discrete right?
That's just it, I think it isn't. Trans itself has a lot of grey areas, despite being treated as a binary diagnosis. I don't have severe dysphoria but I'm certainly not cis.

I don't know, I consider it binary. With the shades of grey just being men who feel feminine or women who feel masculine. I'm not big into the idea that queer is a gender identity

>>7475131
Then how do you define the binaries? How do I tell which one I fall into, for example?

>>7474567
>liberal Left haha

Nigga, I'm on 4chan and I'm calling you fucking stupid. That you disagree with my position is hardly grounds for you to play offended, attack my position based on my personality, and feign that I am the proper representative of those diametrically opposed to you politically.

Funny that you ascribe "leftist" as a description of anyone who disagrees with you, since all I've said is that unilateral female privilege is a piss-poor conception of reality. Cry more tho

>>7475284
Cont.
I'd encourage you, moving forward, to address people's arguments, because whining about people being mean to you makes you look like the "Left" that you so despise.

>>7475284
>>7475289
>whining
>no arguments
Pot meet kettle.

>>7475071
i think she meant it as distinct categories. as in those who are trans, those who just cd, and those who just fantasize

>>7475266
Yeah, the more I think about it the idea of gender is either the same as sex and can't be changed. Or based on how you act and is pretty much a suggestion rather than a descriptive term.

I can't really think of a system where gender isn't arbitrary whether queer is involved or not.

Anyone help me with this?

>>7475330
I think the person you replied to is saying that how can I treat trans as a distinct category when there's so much variety in the trans spectrum. I'd say that hormones define transness but then there's gotta be AGP femboys on hormones who consider themselves male.

Maybe the system could be 'if you've every wanted to be considered the opposite sex, for social purposes rather than passing (or sex) and still want to be, then you're trans, otherwise you're just a crossdresser (or normal) any holes on this one?

>>7475324
I made my argument earlier though, ass fuck. That's when he went "OMG look how mean lefties are..."

I wish I could be trans and not AGP. If I could choose between no sexuality and AGP I would be ace. I kind of want to kill myself, Holy shit, i'm actually suicidal. I won't do it but I want to...

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>>7474097

>>7475604
Please stop shitting up our thread.

Went on omegle dressed like a girl under the tag sissy and a guy asked my name, i said i didnt have a girl name and he said my name was Jenny.

He called me like that for our entire chat and it made me rock hard for some reason.

Weird shit but compliments and girly names turn me on to no end.

>>7474205
I feel similarly. The short answer is that if being on HRT makes you feel better about yourself (because of making your body more how you like it and everything), then clearly it's a good idea; the "legitimacy" of your identity as a woman is incidental.

You feeling better is a good sign.

>>7474205
If you're experiencing dysphoria you should probably transition. I know of some AGPs who transitioned and did well. If being AGP bothers you the good news is that it often goes away after transitioning, physically and socially, and living as a woman in a mundane context for a considerable time.

>>7475888
Fuck, this is turning me on. It's funny, since I have friends who call me a female name normally and it's not sexual at all there, but conceptualising myself as a trap or a sissy (as opposed to just a woman) makes it an erotic thing.

Plus the idea of being arbitrarily named like that is hot in itself.

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Is this normal if I hate (all) women, seeing them as a huge waste of opportunities, constantly thinking how I could have done things better in their place?

I wonder if anyone else with AGP feels like that.

>>7476348
It is not normal, but is sadly common. Misogyny seems to afflict every demographic in equal measure. In your case it probably mixed with jealousy. I'd make effort to overcome it.

>>7476348
Of course its not normal, but it can be explained by your envy/jealousy of them which is not uncommon for trans or agp.
I rationalized against it by thinking of all the downsides of being a woman and upsides of being a man. Also Ive been fairly social at some point in my life, had hundreds of contacts, seen many people - and they are very different. So I try to not generalize and never get this 'carper' hate for one gender.

>>7476436
'carpet hate'

>>7475888
>come up with unironic girl name for yourself that you liked from childhood
>tfw it turns out to be a typical tranny name
>tfw there is a notorious transgirl with the same name

>>7476357
>overcome jealousy
>AGP
???

>>7476487

Fortunately, the name Kayla carried no appeal to me because I had only met black girls with that name.

>>7476523
You can be happy with yourself, you know. It isn't easy but it is possible.

>>7476636
Isn't having AGP the exact opposite of "being happy with yourself"?

>>7476641
Well, you can reach a more authentic self by transitioning and being happy with who you have become without feeling the need to bring others down.

>>7476651
Yea, I "can" transition (though whether I really need it is up for debate), but I'll never become a real woman and obviously I have much worse starting conditions that real women don't have to deal with.

>>7476660
You're no less real just because you're different. I get why you'd be jealous but you can get to the point where you feel good enough about yourself that it doesn't affect you anymore. Mostly anyhow. Everyone has bad days. Don't let it eat at you or fill you with hatred.

>>7476569
Nice one.
But in my case she is more notorious locally and actually a criminal.

>>7476348
yup, me too. they are wastes of opportunity so you are right to feel that way and you'd probably make a better girlfriend than them too.

>>7476357
how exactly is that misogyny?

>>7476436
>I rationalized against it by thinking of all the downsides of being a woman and upsides of being a man.
trying that just leaves me more jealous than ever. what did you think to make it work for you?

How do I know if I'm trans or AGP? This shit is so confusing.

Maybe I need to see a therapist.

>>7478085
Probably a bit of both and a therapist won't help you.

>>7478085
You can also be both trans and AGP.
Seeing a therapist might help, yes. Just make sure they're good.

>>7478098
>>7478108
>You can be both AGP and trans
>A therapist might help or be completely useless

Thanks for making me even more confused, kek.

>>7478198
Sorry haha. Truth be told I'm a bit tired now. Still, if you told us more about yourself we might be able to say more.

>>7478203
Haha, I get that. Thanks for the help either way.

>>7478198
>Trans
You experience gender dysphoria and wish to live as a member of the sex opposite to that of your natal one.
>A*P
You are aroused by fantasies where you are a member of the sex opposite to that of your natal one and/or act like a stereotypical member of that sex.

One can be trans, AGP, both or neither. A lot of transsexuals experience AGP, primarily prior to transitioning.

>>7478266
Thanks! Appreciate you taking the time to write that.

Now I'm a bit panicked though. Mainly due to the fact that you mentioned a lot of transexuals experience AGP before transition. Both definitions you described sound like me to a T.

I just feel like I've repressed a lot of this. Fuck.

>>7478266
I wish to live as a girl but only experience mild dysphoria, so I suppose I'm around 60% trans.

>>7478325
>I just feel like I've repressed a lot of this.
I think that's true for most of us here.

>>7478325
You're welcome!
I wrote a few guiding questions I think might be of use to you. Don't feel compelled to answer all of them, or that you have to tell us your answers if you don't feel like it. Telling us more about yourself will probably improve the quality of the advice we can give you though.

As far as you remember when was the first time you were disconcerted by your gender? How did that feeling evolve over time? Were you a gender-conforming child? Teenager? Adult? When did you first feel full-blown dysphoria? When did you first experience AGP? How did they evolve over time? How do you feel about your body? How do you feel about being thought of as a man? If you had a woman's body and people accepted you but still thought of you as and called you a man would them doing so still bother you? If you could "act like a woman" i.e. conform to stereotypes about what it means to be womanly without ridicule but your body remained as is would you be content?

Remaining as you are, can you see yourself happy in 5 years? 10? 20? What if you transitioned?

>>7478076
The SUV wives at the grocery store always depress me, and the girls who are all like "omg, we're buying a house!" when it's all their husband paying for it, and me working the same low paying job will never have that.

>>7478449
Wow, thanks for that. Lot to take in but I'll try to answer as much as possible.

>As far as you remember when was the first time you were disconcerted by your gender?

Started around 3-4 or so years ago I'd say.

>How did that feeling evolve over time?

Lot's of confusion describes it best. Wasn't sure if it was real or not. If this other "me" I was feeling was a true representation. Don't know of a better way of putting it.

>Were you a gender-conforming child? Teenager? Adult?

As a child, yes. I remember being dressed into girl's clothes from a young age, had makeup put on, etc. As a teen I grew out my hair, would often be called a girl and such. As an adult it's more internal now. I've always been known as having I guess a sensitive or feminine persona.

>When did you first feel full-blown dysphoria? When did you first experience AGP?

Actual dysphoria was felt earlier this year, but I pushed it down. AGP for a few years now.

>How do you feel about your body?

I have a pretty feminine body, so I'm not complaining. It's weird, sometimes I wish I had a more feminine body (i.e. breasts, hips, bigger butt, etc.) In the past I tried to drown out dysphoria by working out and trying to put on muscle.

>How do you feel about being thought of as a man?

Sometimes I feel like I'm faking it, or putting on a show.

>If you had a woman's body and people accepted you but still thought of you as and called you a man would them doing so still bother you?

No, If I looked like a woman, I'd want to be addressed as such.

> If you could "act like a woman" i.e. conform to stereotypes about what it means to be womanly without ridicule but your body remained as is would you be content?

Possibly, only due to already having a slightly feminine frame and body type.

>Remaining as you are, can you see yourself happy in 5 years? 10? 20? What if you transitioned?

Hard to answer. My big fear about transitioning is having regret or being shunned by family and society.

>>7478459
Worst feel is when I see my cousin who had like 4 husbands already and ripped off and cucked one of them big time.
And shes so damn pretty.

>roleplay as girl online
>dysphoria goes away for at least half a year
>repeat

>>7479177
how do you do the roleplay?

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>>7476348
>>7476357
I hate women too. I feel bad about it but I can't help it. I'm very jealous and stuff like women acting dumb or doing stupid stuff makes me angry because they get to be a woman and they take it for granted.

I feel like I'm mentally ill though because being a man is better than being a woman but I want to be a woman.

;_;

>>7479454
being a man is only better if you're competent and capable enough to do it. if you're a failed male like we are then being a woman is better. and if you're a failed male but still better than women, then of course you'd get jealous of them wasting their privilege.

>>7479481
I'm not a failed male so much as I don't want any of the things other guys want. I don't wanna have sex with girls or wrestle or play rough, all the typical guy things.


I wanna be a girl and be married to a guy

>>7479177
>want to roleplay as a girl online
>still with parents so can't fake/work on my voice
>voice changers are all garbage

>>7479525
wanting to be a housewife instead of an alpha dude is being a failed male. because you want to be held to female standards and expectations instead of the male ones, which are for competent people who aren't as bad as women. not that you are, but like me you're probably closer to that than being as good as a man.

>>7479560
text chat?

>>7479560
>>still with parents so can't fake/work on my voice

try singing in girly voice, it wont out you and as a bonus you will train melodic voice which is also a part of sunding more female

>>7479614
I don't necessarily want to be a housewife I just want to be a girl and be able to live life as one.

I'm competent I guess at doing what I need to do but there is no motivation or drive and I want to die because I don't feel like a real person.

>>7479616
>implying i can sing
>implying it wouldn't be weird as fuck if i started singing let alone in a girl voice

>>7479649
motivation is the real difference between men and women. i want a husband so i can piggyback on his drive and let him motivate me instead of having to feel those things myself unaided like a man.

>>7479454
>women acting dumb or doing stupid stuff
I recall one girl who was total
>tee heee! Im so dumb and cute
like the worst stereotype, also she was a weeb. And of corse she was attentionwhore too.
I had to limit my contacts with her it pissed me off to no end.

>>7479614
but prioritizing interpersonal relationship (family) is innate female characteristic and not a social stereotype or being a failed man

>>7479703
>but prioritizing interpersonal relationship (family) is innate female characteristic and not a social stereotype or being a failed man
like anon said, men are better than women, and that's a woman thing.

>>7479695
it's just hard to do things when I'm a man and I don't care about anything because I'm a man

>>7479746
are you sure that's the problem? i don't think i'd care more if i was a girl, i'd just be able to have a boyfriend to motivate me.

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>>7476348
Not AGP, just an MTF browsing out of curiosity. Maybe its not hate, but I feel this feel occasionally. I suffered a lot (really conservative and abusive family). Now that I'm nearing the end of transition, I'm an increasingly confident, driven, happy person. Most women are handed a perfect life on a silver platter but seem content totally wasting it, throwing away the gift they've been given. If I can do so well, why aren't they doing way better than me. I guess it's a sort of contempt?

It's definitely not misogyny, since I legitimately hate men. I never identified as a guy, always wished I were a girl, and was feminine even when I was young. I thought all men felt like me, and were just girls beaten down by society into acting like men. When I realized those disgusting monsters actually enjoyed acting like psychopaths, I never forgave it.

>>7479789
>I thought all men felt like me, and were just girls beaten down by society into acting like men

You realize this is probably still true, right? They've just been brainwashed into thinking they "enjoy it", they're probably too far gone by now, but you shouldn't hate on your less fortunate sisters.

>>7479772
you could have a bf/gf to motivate you now, but would that work?

>>7479789
I don't hate men.

It's just like I hate seeing women act like shit

for example

>mother is off of work for like 2 weeks of vacation time she took
>one day step dad comes home after working 12 hours
>she didn't make dinner or anything for him
>then bitches at him to move some furniture around for her

if I was lucky enough to get to be a woman and have a husband I wouldn't treat him like shit


>>7479772
yeah I'm pretty sure it is

a lot of things just boil down to me being depressed and wanting to be a girl and imagining what everything would be like if i was a girl but im mentally ill so what do I know

>>7479805
>You realize this is probably still true, right?
Is it? Most men seem incredibly insistent that they absolutely enjoy being a man. which sounds insane to me desu.

>>7479789
>Not AGP, just an MTF browsing out of curiosity.
Any observations from an outsider about AGP?

>Most women are handed a perfect life on a silver platter but seem content totally wasting it, throwing away the gift they've been given. If I can do so well, why aren't they doing way better than me. I guess it's a sort of contempt?
How are you doing better than them?

They take their life for granted, so they have no reason to see it as a gift. They buy into what they're told by our feminist society, that they have it hard and are oppressed.

>I thought all men felt like me, and were just girls beaten down by society into acting like men.
I hear this a lot from trans girls.

>When I realized those disgusting monsters actually enjoyed acting like psychopaths, I never forgave it.
What do they do that's so bad?

>>7479805
The same could be said of women, they're brainwashed into thinking the way they live is good. If they'd been made to man up all the time, they'd have been made into men, except for the few who would be transwomen.

>>7479807
yes, i bet it would. but for that i'd either need to be gay and date a gay or settle for a woman, and women don't want to give drive to someone, they want someone with drive to tag along with just like i do.

>>7479816
>a lot of things just boil down to me being depressed and wanting to be a girl and imagining what everything would be like if i was a girl but im mentally ill so what do I know
what would actually change if you were a girl? like what you said to the other anon:

>if I was lucky enough to get to be a woman and have a husband I wouldn't treat him like shit
same, i'd love him and try to support him and be a good wife. but it's getting to do those things and being treated as his wife by him that are my fantasy of what things would be like if i was a girl. not being a girl itself. although that's what makes it possible and i do want to be pretty and female. but it's life women lead that i really need to not be a failed male, not looking like one or being one physically.

>>7479819
It's possible that there are "real men" out there, after all, FtMs exist.

But the "0.6%" figure is obviously too low. Like, if it were possible to drink a potion that instantly turned you into a girl indistinguishable from a cis woman, I think 75% of people would be girls desu.

>>7479819
why wouldn't they enjoy if it comes natural? they don't put much thought into it
(and I mean just beign a man, not what society forces men into, like shitty jobs, army or any prejudices)

>>7479848
>women don't want to give drive to someone
you dont know women much
they can be very motivational because success of their man is crucial to their wellbeing and I dont mean it in a bad way (though that happens too), they can be very supportive

>>7479819
>Most men seem incredibly insistent that they absolutely enjoy being a man.
"I was spanked and I turned out fine. We're too soft on kids these days."

Same logic.

>>7479850
>Like, if it were possible to drink a potion that instantly turned you into a girl indistinguishable from a cis woman, I think 75% of people would be girls desu.
Why so many? I can imagine say 10% but anything above 20% is hard to believe. There's the few who really can't stand it, the 0.6%, then those questioning and curious who end up googling trans terms or posting on /lgbt/, which isn't very many, then a few more who would if they thought about it and were offered the potion, then many more who don't really mind but on balance prefer being men, and then many more who actively enjoy being men and wouldn't like being women at all.

>>7479901
I guess that's more realistic, 60% of people then.

>>7479890
yes but it's not their own drive and success. like you said, it's support. i want a man with drive so i can support him. his drive and motivation gives me motivation i wouldn't have on my own.

i agree exactly with what you said. but being motivated by a man to support him is what i want to be. it's no use dating a girl when she wants the same. neither of us would be able to lead the way. we'd each need a bf to do that.

that's why i can't date a girl.

and it would be unfair to her, because girls expect that of men. if i want to be the supportive one and want her to be the man and lead, then i'm tricking her if i act just like a regular guy when we start dating. it's reasonable for her to expect to get to be the girl, because she is one and i'm not.

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>>7479850
>75% of people would be girls

>>7479919
That 60% of people makes 20% of men, which is the upper bound I'd put on the first three types of male, with the last two types being the 80% who prefer being men.

>>7479936
You're catching on, his movies are what turned me trans. Only half-joking.

>>7479933
that sounds more like you are afraid of any responsibility in relationship or life
poor baby, you need a mommy to tell you what to do and lead you by the hand

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>>7479949
I still kind of sickened that 90% of men would still be men. Why? It's like being a woman, but worse. Being able to be as feminine as you reasonably want, being treated nicer, being pretty, being free to have sex how you want, and not having a smelly hairy body is all wonderful.

>>7479973
>stronger
>less emotional
>certain your achievements are your own and not just people liking you
>worse
UUUU

You're projecting your own taste on an entire gender senpai.

>tfw no qt femboy AGP bf to dress up in girls clothes and call them a pretty girl

It actually hurts

>>7479968
>that sounds more like you are afraid of any responsibility in relationship or life
yeah. i can't cope with responsibility. like a woman.

>poor baby, you need a mommy to tell you what to do and lead you by the hand
i literally just said why women won't lead. that's why single mothers screw up their kids.

i need a daddy not a mommy.

>>7479991
Only benefit is strength.
Feeling less also means feeling less of the good. You can turn being emotional into a strength if you work at it.
Women have to work twice as hard to receive recognition in most fields, women can totally be sure their achievements are their own.

>>7480014
>women can totally be sure their achievements are their own.
HAHAHA

>>7480014
that's because they do less work so them working 2x as hard is doing the same work as a slightly above average man

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>>7480014
>Feeling less also means feeling less of the good.
I'd rather keep being a cold calculating machine that isn't swayed by irrationality, thank you very much.

>Women have to work twice as hard to receive recognition in most fields
Now you're just goofing around.

>>7479973
>I still kind of sickened that 90% of men would still be men. Why? It's like being a woman, but worse.
that post said 80%...

being a man isn't worse than being a woman. it's higher expectations. if you are a failed male like we all are here then of course you don't want higher standards. but it's good that some aim higher.

>>7479789
Anon? >>7479825

>>7480033
>I'd rather keep being a cold calculating machine that isn't swayed by irrationality, thank you very much.
I'd rather enjoy life. Being a machine sounds awful.

>>7480033
>>7480027
>>7480020
>all this unironic misogyny

>>7480042
>if you are a failed male like we all are here then of course you don't want higher standards
But I'm actually academically and socially successful as a woman. This has nothing to do with standards or being a "failed male", since I have really high standards for myself. Higher than society's standards for men.

>>7480054
>>all this unironic misogyny
not buying into feminist crap != misogyny

and you're an admitted and open misandrist.

>>7480013
>can't cope with responsibility. like a woman
except plenty of women can and do

>single mothers screw up their kids.
because a kid needs both parents and a male role model too for proper upbringing and development

most mothers are perfectly capable of taking full responsibility and care of their kids and that includes working to afford everything, but of course that's not as good as having both parents

>>7480054
>I have really high standards for myself. Higher than society's standards for men.
let's hear it.

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>>7480054
>misogyny
>acknowledging that women are more supported than men by western civilization
You got your brain eaten out by feminism anon.

>>7480071
>except plenty of women can and do
>because a kid needs both parents and a male role model too for proper upbringing and development
if that was true then single fathers would be just as bad.

but they aren't.

kids can't learn to cope with responsibility from women because women don't know how themselves. that's why they need men, who can teach kids responsibility. though only boys need to learn it from them, because they can't expect to find a man to do that for them as adults.

>>7480014
>Feeling less also means feeling less of the good. You can turn being emotional into a strength if you work at it.

It's true, the highs are great. I pity those who never experience intense emotions. But it's horrific when they are bad and you can get over.
Being an emotional wreck ruined my life. I've no idea how to turn it into strength. I only tried to suppress it which gave me more anxiety and unhappiness with myself.

>>7480105
>I only tried to suppress it which gave me more anxiety and unhappiness with myself.
Men manage it.

>>7480048
I feel like I'm taking over your thread by spamming responses...

>>7479825
>Any observations from an outsider about AGP?
Nothing that hasn't been said a million times in /agpg/ already. I think it's really cool that you guys talk about it openly and are self aware, when the rest of the trans community refuses to even acknowledge it. Non-self aware AGPs get kinda scary.
>How are you doing better than them?
I'm on par with them despite a massive setback in life. It's not that I'm better.
>What do they do that's so bad?
Cause 90% of the crime in society. If a nation existed of women only, it'd make Japan look like Somalia. Their general perversion, violence, public rudeness, and domineering nature is really awful.

>>7480105
If you are emotionally unstable, it means that you can also turn a bad mood positive really quickly. Learning self care, what your emotional triggers are, and self control means that you can manipulate your own emotions really easy.

>>7480090
custody laws universally take away kids from the fathers in most cases, unless mother is deemed really bad and unfit to be a parent while father is the opposite, so its impossible to make a general assumption from the practice

there are PLENTY of irresponsible fathers that just flee and don't want to support their kids, its a very common filmily issue and Im surprised you have no idea of it

https://debunkingmras.wordpress.com/

read this I guess if you want to learn some cool facts

thread is getting gross and dumb again so im just going to run off bye for now

>>7480115
Very funny.
But not all men are emotionless or great at self-control either. Why else do you think many have breakdowns and drown themselves in alcohol .

>>7480137
Nope, I get emotional easily and cant calm down quickly, its like BPD but not as extreme I guess.

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>>7480205
>it's the patriarchy's fault
>wars only benefit men, so it's men's own fault for getting killed
>women are just better with children leave them to us you entitled assholes
>men work hard jobs they die at to "prove their masculinity to women" (what the fuck)
>men hit harder so it somehow negates that we start fights more often
>generally throwing stats at other stats to avoid adressing the fact that men are demonstrably systematically discriminated against
What sort of self-serving line of bullshit is this fucking trash?
Victim blaming at its finest, you can even replace men with black people in some cases and end up with hilarious /pol/-tier "arguments".

>>7480250
>not all men are emotionless
Detachment is a learned skill. Men are just socially and genetically predisposed to be good at it.

Stoicism can be trained out of anyone, you just have to put enough effort.

>>7480250
>Why else do you think many have breakdowns and drown themselves in alcohol .
That's when you're too good at it and repress your emotions so far that they come back hard and you have to drown them in whiskey.

Not to mention the ones that do that usually have a reason, PTSD can happen to both genders.

>>7470985
>stand up for your opinions or lie down and take it
>lie down and take it like a girl

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Anyone else's agp get super triggered by tan lines (bikini or not)

>>7480491
Bikini a fuckton.
Others not that much.

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>>7480491
It's the exact opposite for me. I hate tan, but I get triggered by pale girls a lot.

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>>7480522
How about other chest located tan lines like strappy tops or sports bras?

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Goddammint, even online tests tell me that I'm a fucking AGP fetishist.

>>7480688
lul
link?

>>7480708
http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/sage/test.htm#

It's long as fuck but it seems to give somewhat accurate results.

>>7480715
The questions all assume you are a pre-everything man, wth

>>7480715
>man answer
>slightly man answer
>neutral answer
>slightly woman answer
>woman answer
dropped
r
o
p
p
e
d

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Well this thread went to shit fast.

Are there actually any other trans women here who've actually transitioned and would likely be labeled as AGP based on the stereotypes or typology? I assume most people here are just pre-transition trans women or cis men.

Like, how do you deal with all the guilt, the self-hatred, the constant burden it takes on you? The fact that I can never be trusted to tell my own story or how I'm to be associated with male fetishists, pedophiles and sexual predators. How people actually make an effort to "clock" you and label you as AGP. Like, that shit takes a toll and makes my dysphoria 10x worse. On top of all the worry about physically passing, I'm constantly worried about my voice, mannerisms, speech patterns all coming off as masculine or uncanny.

>>7480205
>>7480911
I feel like this thread has a few different crowds and the large GMT 00:00-06:00 crowd is almost entirely made of young misogynists. It's always unpleasant to come back to.

>>7481021
I ran into a few here, though they generally don't stick around for long. I can't really tell you how to deal with this emotionally, sorry. I can tell you why you should't feel lesser because you feel the way you do though. We don't actually know how AGP relates to dysphoria. What we know is that the two often show up together. Ray Blanchard reasoned that since AGP and dysphoria show up together at a high frequency one must cause the other and since most of his subjects reported AGP coming first (and he dismissed the self reports of those who said it is the other way around because they were Obviously Lying..) then dysphoria develops from AGP. It doesn't take much to realize why this is a massive logical leap. If all we know is that trais 1 and 2 correlate and that 2 often shows up after 1 we haven't ruled out an unknown trait 3 causing both 1 and 2, or trait 2 being difficult to detect in its early phases to the point where you think it is not there. To prove that 1 causes 2 you need to show a concrete mechanism by which it does exactly that, which Ray never did.

Another thing to consider is the way transitioning interacts with autogynephilic arousal. Transitioning medically and socially for a prolonged period tends to eventually strangle AGP/AAP. Some argue that this is because HRT lowers your libido to which I'll say that transsexuals are still generally sexually active and many find a spouse and actually start having sex regularly for the first time only after transitioning. If lowered libido is the culprit why are these people otherwise sexually active, interested in having sex and capable of being aroused by other things?

1/2

>>7481021
>>7481303
Blanchard argues that this is because the individual feels ROMANTIC love for their feminine self which is.. a very Jungian argument, and not how we think of psychology today. Said individuals certainly don't report feeling this way despite us only knowing that those individuals used to experience autogynephilia because they admitted to such. Again, why does transitoning only convert one sexual urge to a nebulous romantic love for an abstract alter ego but the rest go unmolested? This idea is just outright ridiculous.

If autogynephiles are motivated to transition by their autogynephilic sexual desires why do they report being happier and generally don't detransition once those are gone? Considering all of the above I think the answer is that they aren't. Dysphoria is, same as for other transsexuals. Autogynephilia in the Blanchardian sense is pseudoscience and you should disregard it, much like the medical community at large went on to discard it in recent years. You can't stop the ignorant masses from looking down on you for this but you can stop looking down on yourself.

2/2

>>7481308
>Dysphoria is
As in, dysphoria is their motivation.

>>7481303
>implying it's not the histrionic feminist who is making it shit

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How many times have you been *politely* asked to cut baiting with feminism bullshit?

MAKE ANOTHER THREAD FOR YOUR GENDER POLITICS

STOP SHITTING HERE

>>7481845
Not tonight's poster but when people here will stop saying sexist shit I'll stop correcting them.

>>7481930
Exactly. Otherwise we let people get away with spouting feminism and it looks like the whole thread is misandrist.

>>7481987
>Implying the problem isn't the misogynists

>>7481991
>implying there's any such thing

>>7481999
You're retarded

>>7480205
>read this I guess if you want to learn some cool facts
>thread is getting gross and dumb again so im just going to run off bye for now
Pathetic coward. Typical feminist.

>>7481930
then you are purposely being a huge dickhead and shitting up thread where people are trying to help eachother

>>7482379
>feminist
>putting helping people above shitting things up and attacking anyone who disagrees with her
choose one.

>>7482379
I'm the one doing a fair amount of the helping.
Buying into sexism doesn't help anyone.

>>7482472
>I'm the one doing a fair amount of the helping.
As all the worst people tell themselves.
>Buying into sexism doesn't help anyone.
Then give up your misandry aka feminism.

>>7482498
>As all the worst people tell themselves.
I guess I just imagined all of the people thanking me for my help.
>Then give up your misandry aka feminism
I get it. You're just pretending. Very funny.

>>7482472
but i want to be a girl because girls get it so much better. telling me they don't and that i have a different problem is how shit therapists push people into believing the trutrans narrative or repressing by tricking them into thinking they aren't really trans.

that's not helping. ignoring the issues and telling people to stop being sexist is sentencing them to be hons or kill themselves.

>>7482516
If you want to be a woman then go be a woman. Maybe you like the gender role ascribed to women better and would do well as a stereotype-conforming woman because of that. What I will say is that this is probably not why you are trans though since transsexuality is, as far as we know, probably biological.

What I take an issue with is the claim that women are not in many ways oppressed and don't enjoy the same opportunities as men. You might like the role given to women in our society and would like to fulfil it and that's fine. There are plenty of women who don't and are held back from happiness because they are restricted by these roles. Men are also restricted in some ways but far less than women.

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>>7480715
What if I dont like house chores, but I've actually done *this*

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>it's another feminist baits /agpg/ by complaining about misogyny while being openly misandrist episode

>>7482513
Go make your own thread for that crap.

>>7482539
>Men are also restricted in some ways but far less than women.
This probably explains why there are so many more FTMs than MTFs.

>>7482556
Since transsexuality is probably biological and people don't transition because they think the other gender's roles are better.. not really?

>>7482569
Let me spell it out for you: he's saying that FTMs aren't as prevalent because if cis women want to act like men they just can with minor consequences, while cis men must act like men or lose all social standing.

It being biological, while true (to a level, we don't know if it's predisposition or more yet), doesn't enter into that argument.

>>7482539
>What I will say is that this is probably not why you are trans though since transsexuality is, as far as we know, probably biological.
knew you weren't helpful. like i said, you're pushing people into being hons, detransitioning or killing themselves.

>>7482590
And they're implying that this has anything to do with why people choose to transition, which is wrong.

As for why I think that's only half of the picture..
>>7459936

>>7482618
>Telling people they're innately trans and should transition pushes them into repressing.
Why let logic get in the way of hatred, right?

>>7482686
your kind has killed enough trans people. fuck off.

>>7482696
My kind? You're the one pushing TERF propaganda in the form of claiming that people opt to transition because they don't like their gender's roles rather than because of crippling dysphoria-induced anguish. "My kind" are those who stand up to this nonsense.

>>7482513
I'll thank you when you stop purposely ruining the thread with gender politics. And don't pretend you don't know what you are doing, you are not blind, you are being malicious.

And ALL the people who cant help but take the bait aren't helping either.
It's as cancerous as poltards and shills invading this board during election month.

You know it's polarizing topic that is guaranteed to pissoff people and derail the thread.
You've been to asked to stop and show some respect to each other. Or just make another thread for feminism talks if you want to argue about it.

But NO, you have to wage your wars here until you kill the thread.

>>7482716
As you say, he's being deliberately malicious, so why are you expecting anything you say to be listened to?

>>7482716
I'd shut up if this actually had nothing to do with the topic at hand but it does. How people relate to gender in general and how they relate to their own gender identity are strongly tied. I'm sorry if I'm making the thread less enjoyable for you but I think these are things worth saying when you have people who repress because they feel like they just need to "man up" and that being womanly is somehow shameful.

>>7482757
>being womanly is shameful
>on /agpg/
Yeah, nobody here believes that.
But we don't believe manliness is shameful or bad either and that's what bothers you.

>>7482711
you don't want to help any of us. you just want to preach.

like the missionaries who go to africa who pretend to care but really don't care if people die as long as they convert.

>ur a terf
???

>>7482764
>Yeah, nobody here believes that.
A lot of people here freely admitted to hating women and by extension what makes a woman a woman i.e. being womanly.
Every other incarnation of the thread has a person going "I'll just start lifting weights and no fap and play sports and try to be more manly this will make AGP go away right AGP is caused by being a failed male right???".
>But we don't believe manliness is shameful or bad either and that's what bothers you.
I don't believe being manly is bad or shameful either.

>>7482774
That's why I wrote
>>7475978
>>7478108
>>7478266
>>7478449
>>7481303
>>7481308
Right?

>>7482806
>freely admitted to hating women
We don't, we just said that they get the long end of the stick in western society, stop fucking projecting.

>>7482811
Uh..
>>7476348
>Is this normal if I hate (all) women..
>>7479454
>I hate women too..

>>7482817
Read. The. Rest. Of. The. Posts.

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>>7480715
>andro appearance
cause Im skinny and have small feet? those were the only question I picked lowest options

>andro everything
cause I picked too many neutral answers and Im not very practical and really bad at finding my way around? top keks

>do you get lost in a city?
>do you prefer sexy stories to porn vids?
>cant fix your car?
>time to transition, honey!

>>7483611
I think all those questions aren't necessarily heavily weighted and are more misdirection for the actual important ones.

That's how tests I know are usually designed anyways.

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>>7483779
there are just several direct and blunt questions about A*P and appearance especially

its hilarious

once I got turned on playing a racing game, does that count as AAP too?

>>7483843
>I got turned on playing a racing game
Mecanophilia strikes again!

>>7483779
They shouldn't count for anything at all if they're on there, and really they shouldn't be on there at all for a test that's designed for people confused about their gender, lest those people think they actually matter and base their ideas off superficial bullshit.

While the idea of a gender test (as opposed to a series of formative questions) is awful enough, it seems that every one that actual instance of a gender test is a level of bullshit on top of that.

>>7483866
>Remember, this test will not TELL you what your gender identity is. It is designed to help you EXPLORE and understand your gender identity against "social norms" and clinical diagnostic classifications. It is NOT a substitute for seeking professional therapy.
Internet based tests without interpretation by a professional are universally bullshit anon.

>>7483866
Underrated post.

>>7483866
you can scroll through the test to see the questions yourself http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/sage/test.htm#

you better call this number, no way around
+436958452563

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>>7482541
Misandry is justified desu

>>7483952
>Sexism is justified
No.

You're on par with /pol/ if you think that.

>>7483963
/pol/ thinks women suck because they don't suck their gross, sweaty neckbeard dick

I think men are awful because the commit the vast majority of the crime in society. Sorry I think that violent, disgusting, perverted apes need to be brought to civilization.

>>7483972
>I think niggers are awful because the commit the vast majority of the crime in society. Sorry I think that violent, disgusting, perverted apes need to be brought to civilization.

>>7483977
But that's also true. You don't have a problem with the truth, do you anon?

>>7481303
>>7481308
Well, thanks I guess. It's nice to talk to someone that actually knows a bit about this subject and isn't a judgemental cunt about it. Seems hard to find in this day and age where most people who tout the theory are either blatantly transphobic or just disdainful for people who've experienced AGP.

>>7483900
I've seen this test before, but seeing it again and rediscovering everything is great. From the very first question: why does which side of your body you sleep on matter? That's not even a stereotype. Even if there were some correlation between it and gender identity (for some reason), it's clearly mostly a physical thing; I slept mostly on my front and sometimes my side until my beasts made that uncomfortable. I really do hope questions like this don't count for anything and are just there to throw you off or whatever, and if that's the case then literally over half the test should be meaningless along with it; I would love to see the weightings.

I think I've complained about this test before here, with how the answers overlap constantly yet you're only allowed to choose one, and with how ambiguous some (most) of the questions are. It's terribly designed test on so many levels.

>Internet based tests without interpretation by a professional are universally bullshit anon.
Very true. In this case talking through it with a therapist and explaining your answers to the relevant might help, but only as a talking point; the test itself is somewhere between useless and actively harmful if you place any sort of value on it at all. Good tests still need to be interpreted but they have a logic to them where you can derive something from the results of the test; in this case you have to ignore it completely.

>>7483980
>People are their assigned groups and not individuals
>You somehow hold responsibility over people that you share melanin or testosterone amounts with
Idpol tribalism is the cancer that humanity has been fighting for as long as it existed.

Congratulations, you're a fucking idiot.

>>7483972
#notallmenyoudumbtranny

>>7483963
at least stop replying to shitposter

>>7484017
Sorry anon, you're right.

>>7484001
>muh individualism
Individualism is a doomed ideology senpai. It tears society apart at the most fundamental level and goes against the basics of human nature. Only selfish antisocial degenerates actually like it.

I'm sorry I don't have time to look around for the 5% of negroes and men who are good people, especially when the other 95% seem committed to causing as much suffering as possible.

>>7484000
I could complain all day, but I want to bring up how the questions about how you feel about breastfeeding and tampons and other such things only let you answer you have a desire for those things when it's attached to arousal.

>66. You are reading an article in a magazine about breast feeding, you find the article:

>DISGUSTING! Who, but a woman, would want to read about that?
>Arousing. You're getting aroused just thinking about having breasts full of milk.
>Informative, but nothing more.
>Interesting. It may come in handy some day.
>Useful, something to keep in mind when you begin breast feeding.

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>>7484031
>what made the west successful
>when collectivism ruined both Germany and the USSR
>doomed

>>7484042
>ruined
>USSR
Cute. The USSR was the only good thing to happen to Russia in the past 500 years. Too bad the revisionists ruined it all.

Also collectivism is the reason why out of 3000 years of history, it's been better to be Asian for all but 200 of them. And Asia will resume their dominance again shortly.

>>7483952
>>7483972
Men commit more crime because they are in a position of power. Physical power, social power, economic power. Fuck off with your sexism.

>>7483980
Back to your containment board /pol/ard.

>>7470908
>There needs to be a word for this

How about we call it being a woman. after all its not like cis women do not get turned on by the thought of themselves as a sexy object of desire. i mean object in the sense that they are a man's goal, to get them and fuck them.

a lot of feminists hate agps because they view them as being the ultimate objectifiers of women which is just retarded because cis women sexually objectify themselves too all the time because they like it and its arousing.

TL;DR FEMINISTS ARE THE SOURCE OF ALL REPRESSION

>>7476348
everybody with agp feels like this.

cis women are just dumb. they are taught to be dumb growing up and encouraged to remain dumb as adults. always passive, never in charge, submissive yada yada u get the picture. and its not men teaching them to be that way, its other women!

so just imagine if u had been born cis. would you have done any better than them? obviously no since u would have been fed the same shit as they were about their place in society.

>>7484107
>After all its not like cis women do not get turned on by the thought of themselves as a sexy object of desire.

This, so much.

Beautiful women are usually super confident and don't need recognition for their looks because they know that they're desired.

Same way confident men know they look good.

Are all these people AGP too? Seems like the classification is misleading. If someone is trans and finds beauty in themselves being the gender they really are deep down inside, how is it any different from cis genders feeling the same way about themselves?

>>7484107
Well, there's a difference between getting turned on by the thought of just being a sexy lady in some sex-related situation and being turned on because you're, to quote that silly test, cleaning the house in a french maid's outfit, or reading about transitioning or otherwise strongly conforming to female gender stereotypes. Normative cis women don't get turned on by any of that.

>>7484120
I'm a trans woman and this is starting to piss me off.

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DESU I think that most stereotypical traits that make someone "AGP" are simply effects of male socialization. Virtually all people recognized as AGP are older transitioners, who have had long lives as men being socialized as psychopathic, aggressive, and oversexed. Of course when they transition, they are going to act like weirdos. They are going to see everything through the lens of sexuality. My Dad (who isn't trans) is unable to see my (non-AGP) transition through any lens other than sexuality, because that's simply how men are. Of course a society that looks down on male homosexuality is going to create a tranny that believes she doesn't like men. Then when that tranny figures out later in life that she *does* like men, it's considered simply a by-product fetish, and not a woman accepting her naturally born attraction to men.

>>7484120
stop right there, generalizing scum! I grew up as an independent woman who needs no man, just like my mother was

>>7484187
>Then when that tranny figures out later in life that she *does* like men, it's considered simply a by-product fetish, and not a woman accepting her naturally born attraction to men.
But AGP isn't just liking men. It's being sexually aroused by yourself as a woman, not by a partner of either sex, although a partner can add to the fantasy.

>>7484563
Coming out about liking men after coming out as trans is seen as proof of AGP.

>>7484606
I don't see how liking men is inherent to being AGP.

Isn't being AGP simply defined as love of oneself as a woman? Orientation really shouldn't play a part in that.

>>7484626
But the claim is that these AGP people don't really like men, it's just a symptom of their AGP because being with a man makes them feel more feminine.

>>7484606
The stereotype is that AGPs are lesbians and trutrans are straight...

It's only here on /lgbt/ that there are straight AGPs in any numbers.

>>7484645
see
>>7484636

In the original Blanchard typology, AGPs were seen as pseudo-androphilic, and it had nothing to do with their "true attraction".

>>7484681
"true attraction" is a misnomer, just like binary perceptions of gender identity and orientation.

>>7484681
"True attraction" sounds like a silly term.

There are plenty of people who's orientation changes over time, mostly due to pent up repression.

Being AGP and/or trans just further complicates things.

>>7484972
>>7484710
Well that's AGP theory, and you are in AGP gen, so yeah.

>>7485283
The AGP general copypasta OP contradicts Blanchard, so...

>when you kill libido but still want to fap everyday out of habbit

I'm a malformed, balding, barrel-chested, wide-shouldered freak with some kind of an unidentified treatment-resistant skin disease.
I feel shit about my gender.
I don't think becoming a malformed, balding, barrel-chested, wide-shouldered freak with some kind of an unidentified treatment-resistant skin disease and cone tits will make me feel better. Actually looking nothing like a woman will probably just make me feel worse.
I don't know what I should do or what there is to do beside living on and hoping that one day they'll find a way to help people like me.

How big is yur barrel chest senpai?

>>7487277
>>7487196

>>7487277
102cm, but my ribs protrude at least 5 more centimeters beyond that. I'm also 1.93 meters tall.

>>7479952
>his movies are what turned me trans

How?

This is what scares/confuses me.
Am I here because I'm innately like this or because society/media/my own actions have made me like this?

Im guessing its a mixture of these things in which case, is it possible to remove these feelings through social/media conditioning and, if someone else has chosen to transition (not because theyre [tru]trans but because theyve essentially been conditioned into thinking this way) should I give it a go myself? will i be happier?

From a lot of anecdotal chats, Ive read a lot of anons didnt hate their bodies but felt that being a woman was better (e.g. higher social worth, more attention) primarily due to influences from media.

In my case I would say its media and porn that drove me here.

But I dunno, there's so much confusing and, at times, contradictory stuff.

>>7484131
so if the thought of being a beautiful woman who is an object of desire is arousing to me and something i think of, does that mean i should transition?

generally want to know what anons think

>>7487196
in your boat
fapping about xchange erryday

>>7487807
Tons and tons of people here reported having pre-adolescence fantasies about becoming the other gender, years before AGP surfaced. The scientific consensus is that transsexuality is probably caused by abnormal hormonal exposure in the womb. I think that it is safe to call the condition innate. What differs is how people deal with it.

The right question to ask is
>Will I be happier?
with the rest barely mattering.

>>7487842
Not necessarily. If you identify as a male but are aroused by this fantasy then it could be just a fantasy. People have all kinds of kinks. The question is whether you experience dysphoria or not. Whether you genuinely want to live as a woman or not.

>>7487865
>will I be happier

how do i know though?

Every agpg thread says that agp'ers who transition are happier or relieve their agp.

But I guess places like this can be considered biased, possibly because i havent seen any guy reporting saying they have cured their agp or transitioning made it worse...

>>7487882
Could be either because those don't feel like coming here or that they killed themselves.

>>7487909
exactly... this feels like an echo chamber when youre told that transitioning will cure agp (or has done)

>>7487882
You're right, I don't think everything works out for everyone. You have to think things through, look at what you know, and make a decision. What I will say is that I have never heard of anyone who was trans, repressed and ended up happy.

I'm
>>7487196
and am doing my absolute best to repress because I have absolutely no chance of passing. It isn't working. It never worked. I have some periods during which I'm fine but despair always catches up to me eventually, stronger and fiercer.

>>7487842
Like what this anon said >>7487872

Depends on if it's just a fantasy to you, or actually causing you serious distress and dysphoria.

There are plenty of people with AGP who live out their lives still assuming their male role in society, but live out their fantasies in private. Basically, the two worlds never meet, and they're happy keeping it that way.

The same probably can't be said for people with AGP who genuinely feel trans.

>>7487921
It is well-known that it usually (but not always!) does just that, but if you're a cis male who just has an AGP kink and is confused about the whole thing then transitioning would just make you dysphoric. I think the thread kind of self-selects for people who don't fit that label though because those cis males are generally not overwhelmed by anguish over not being able to live out their fetish and so don't come here while most posters here speak of suffering greatly due to some degree of dysphoria.

I posted in femgen, but I feel this thread is appropriate too.

Does anyone who likes to dress up girly/trap and likes having a benis actually like submissive masculine guys? Or am I going to have to become smooth, skinny, and dress up?

>>7488035
Just speaking personally, but I prefer my partner to be dominant. Not necessarily abusive or too aggressive, but in charge.

>>7487807
>Am I here because I'm innately like this or because society/media/my own actions have made me like this?
Nobody's innately anything. That's very dehuamnizing. Embrace being your own (wo)man!

>>7488035
Be yourself, but girly

>>7488418
The AGP motto.

>>7488495
This makes the AGP community feel much better than the tranny community.

>>7488504
spoiler we're mostly trannies or trannies-in-denial or trannies-in-training.

>>7488507
THIS desu

I don't get why some trans get so worked up about people with AGP on here. Seems to be a specific character to only this board.

>>7488384
>Nobody's innately anything

so you dont believe this can be due to biological reasons?

>>7488795
No. If it's something people act or feel, I don't think it's biological.

>>7488384
>>7488858
>2016
>Blank Slatism

>>7488858
but actions and responses can have a biological basis

what if someone had these thoughts because they were genuinely trans?

>>7488418
I like it. Makes me feel all warm inside.

>>7488858
Having a significant amount of estrogen in the body can definitely make it biological.

>>7488969
>what if someone had these thoughts because they were genuinely trans?
What if there is no "genuinely trans"?

>>7489061
When was AGP or trans high estrogen?

>>7488609
really? 4chan is probably the most accepting place of AGPs

>>7489812
Exactly. There's been a regular thread for it for a year now, and as far as I've seen all the other popular forums have a much greater proportion of people who refuse to even acknowledge the existence of AGP, are offended by the very notion of it, or just misunderstand it; 4chan has some but not that many, and there's always this thread if nothing else.

>>7489812
No way. Most of the board is all "AGP scum!!! FALSE TRANNIES!!! FETISHISTS!!!"

>>7488507
But we have a better community.

>>7489831
I get where you're coming from but one of the reasons I read so much about AGP was because just about everyone outside of this thread were using the term as an insult without any real understanding of it. This thread is better about this.. half of the time, anyhow. Accepting we ain't.

>>7489853
It's the most accepting place I can think of, with emphasis on the "most". I agree it's not particularly accepting (or well-informed) regardless.

>>7488609
What places are more accepting of AGP?

>>7489832
that's mostly trolling. i do it myself too because it's funny

>>7489904
Back in the day I used to think all of 4chan's edgelords were just kidding. /pol/ eventually showed me otherwise. Some people are actually trolling but I'll bet the majority mean it.

>>7489812
used to be a forum called crossdreamers or something. dunno what happened to it

first time id encountered a placed where guys with agp accepted it instead of wanting to transition

am i a chaser or an agp? perhaps both?

i fap to CDs and mtf, but i wish i was a woman all the time. I seriously have contemplated buying women's clothing. I remember secretly stealing and putting on my sisters clothes when i was 8 and enjoying looking like a girl/woman. I wish I could be reborn a woman, despite all the negatives that come with it, I still would like it. But yeah it's too late for me. I'll probably die a virgin.

And I haven't ever sought out a trans woman or a CD. But I fap to it a lot, i even put myself in the role of the CD or trans. And hearing the word chaser as an insult does make me mad.

>>7489957
"crossdreaming" is reddit's autistic way with dealing with the reality of AGP
It's pretty cringeworthy

>>7487289
Fuck. That's like 8" more than the average woman. Best of luck senpai.
And if you kill yourself, best of luck in the next life, I hope you get to be a qt.

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>>7490155
>"crossdreaming"
How horrifying.

>>7490203
>Fuck. That's like 8" more than the average woman. Best of luck senpai.
npnp just gonna repress F O R E V E R nothing to worry about this is fine

>And if you kill yourself, best of luck in the next life, I hope you get to be a qt.
I appreciate the sentiment but I'm pretty sure we only get to live once. All things considered my life is still worth living. I'm just spending increasingly larger parts of it being actively sad. In case you are unfamiliar with the process that's when you are so busy being sad you can't do anything else.

>>7490273
Just don't repress then suddenly completely lose it at 60 and pull a Jenner. Commit to one course. I believe one piece of hon literature referred to "having your bell go off".

>In case you are unfamiliar with the process that's when you are so busy being sad you can't do anything else.
I'm familiar with the process, I had it all the time before I transitioned. Out of curiosity, how old are you? If you've been able to make it to 40 or something, your hopes of repressing to the grave are far better than if you were 25 or something. Life is long.

>>7490295
>Just don't repress then suddenly completely lose it at 60 and pull a Jenner. Commit to one course.
But there's no way to bind your future decisions. You can never guarantee you want transition eventually, or for that matter detransition eventually. Committing to any course is impossible.

>>7490295
I'm exactly 25. Kind of hoping against hope that technology will be able to salvage me before I die though. Unlikely, I know, but that hope is all I have.

>>7490295
>>7490319
This reminds me of Kavka's Toxin Puzzle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavka's_toxin_puzzle

>>7490331
More likely than hoping to be a girl in a next life!

>>7490337
How does /agpg/ know about all these clever things? Are you a programmer?

>>7490331
If tranny feels are sneaking up on you now, your odds of actually making it to death without losing it are low.

I really hope technology gives you everything you could ever want. It's not that unlikely. The medical field is making progress in some super important fields, and the average lifespan is climbing every day. We might live to see a day where we could be the qt girls we always wanted to be.

>>7490319
You can if you don't have a weak will. Monks can literally light themselves on fire without screaming.

>>7490351
...yes

>>7490364
Monks don't have AGP. You don't know what state your will will be in after 20+ years of wishing to be a girl.

>>7490365
Stereotyping wins again!

>>7490380
>Monks don't have AGP
Somehow I feel like dousing yourself with gasoline and dying a horrible gruesome death is roughly as bad as being a guy. And I say that as someone who had frighteningly intense dysphoria.

>>7490295
I envy Jenner, he was so busy repressing he achieved a lot. And Ive been flushing my life down the toilet.

>>7490389
>he

>>7490380
>>7490387
>tfw no qt agp monk gf

>>7490394
>qt
>agp

>agp
>gf

>>7490390
yeah Jenner was 'he' when he did all that, dont retroactively misgender

>>7490400
>not knowing about agp qts
>misgendering the monk
rude

>>7490407
but anon, trans people were trans all along, they just didn't realize it yet :^)

>>7489957
>>7490155
The forum still exists, but on a new site. The people who run it still have blogs with crossdreaming in the URL and a subreddit now, but that's something they adopted, not the origin of the term. They have the r/autogynephilia sub as well but have locked it from posting because that's a badwrong word.

>>7490263
It is cringeworthy how they get triggered by "AGP", but what's wrong with "crossdreaming"?

>>7490414
That's probably accurate for most people given that the cause is probably natal.

>>7490155
it looks pretty ded (just like my soul)

>>7490422
>It is cringeworthy how they get triggered by "AGP", but what's wrong with "crossdreaming"?
I just find older AGP communities cringey as hell. Even places like r/asktransgender make me wince, let alone places where they've given up any pretense of normality.

>>7490445
With the exception of the r/crossdreamers sub, are any of the trans subreddits AGP? AGP stuff gets deleted from the main r/transgender sub.

>>7490743
there are a few that tried to take over after the autistic deletion of /r/autogynephilia but they never really took off

>>7490766
Shame, but then again the reddit crowd would always be majority for that kind of feel good identity politics, so why would they care for anywhere else but r/crossdreaming?

Somewhere better would have to be a chan. I remember before /lgbt/ existed I wished for a trans imageboard besides /cd/. At least now we have these threads.

>>7490781
if i'm not mistaken i think i first heard of agp on reddit. i mean, this board has only been around since 2013

>>7482541
I don't think you understand how baiting works

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And the thread just gets worse and worse...

>>7491101
Au contraire, the feminist went away.

>>7491151
Anon I'm still here. I've been here for months and months. I'm just a normal poster most of the time.

>>7469521
As someone who is coming to terms with this typology and finding myself to agree I am HSTS. Yeah i get that maybe I am just a super fem gay guy. However, post transition my identity shifted.

What I find irksom about AGP the older ones are so often creepy. They want to flirt inappropriately. Ask odd questions etc.

Just be what other express as hon like.

What's up with that?

I am a late transitioner but I feel so different from most transitioning near my age.

Know what I mean?

>>7492168
No because the typology is bullshit.

>>7492168
>HSTS
whats that?

>late transitioner
age?

>>7492999
Disclaimer: Blanchard's typology is completely bullshit and you shouldn't take any of this seriously.

HSTS stands for Homosexual Transsexual, one of the two categories in Ray's typology. HSTSs are supposedly all attracted to men and only men, transition young, and behave in a more "feminine" manner. Blanchard posits that they are men that are SO GAY that they can't function as men and so transition. The other category is Autogynephiles, who he claims are straight men who, due to an Erotic Target Location Error, essentially fall in love with their "inner woman". The idea behind ETLEs is that some people have neurological problems which cause them to seek a mate in themselves instead of in the outside world. Since AGPs are straight men they are attracted to their female self. They transition to make "her" happy and live out their sexual fantasies. Bonus: any transsexual who is not attracted exclusively to men is AGP according to this typology. Extra special new year bonus: AGPs can't be genuinely attracted to men, only to the idea of being with them, because their inner woman would like to be with men and they're trying to please her.

The only reason people still give this guy any credence is because his narrative gives their anti-trans position an air of scientific authority.

>>7492062
Well you stopped shitposting

>>7493072
But why are Hons so creepy and make it seem so true?

>>7493650
Hons seem creepy because they are hons. If a cute young transitioner or even cis girl acted the same way, it would be adorkable.

>>7469502
>When crossdressing the flat 'mound' between my legs after tucking triggers me so much.
It's apparently called the mound of Venus. Thread related >>7482450

>>7493912
can they put all small implant to simulate pubic bone when they do SRS?

>>7494940
That seems kind of fetishy but then again this is AGP general.

>>7494967
It's fetishy to make the SRS result more accurate (which is the whole point in the first place)?

>>7494940
Is it a bone that causes it in women?

I just want to be a real girl. SRS isn't good enough.

>>7495081
This is AGP general, so you want it for AGP purposes, so yes.