/agpg/ - AGP General

>>7111740
first for qt

>tfw the thread was dead for a day but you didn't want to be complicit in perpetuating its current name but also didn't want to stage a coup without the support of the people and so couldn't open a new one
I'm relieved someone made it.

>>7111919
What name would you prefer and why?

>>7111920
>What name would you prefer?
Some term which encompasses what most of us actually mean when we say AGP i.e. arousal at the thought of yourself being and/or behaving like a woman, minus all of the other things the term implies due to being defined in Blanchard's paper. The dichotomy, AGP supposedly causing the development of a cross-gender identity, autogynephiles being unable to be sexually attracted to other people and so on.

As to the replacement.. I think that we'd need to create it. AGP is strongly connected to Blanchard's work. Serano's FEFs imply that cis women also experience AGP fantasies in the exact same way which I think is false. I can't think of any other remotely popular term.

>Why?
I think continuing to use this word helps keep Blanchard's work alive in the minds of those who see it and gives it credence.

>>7111919
>>7111957
seriously just go back to r.eddit already

>>7111964
I'm willing to bet that I've been here longer than you chummer.

>>7111957
Maybe "Feminization Fetishists General"? Something like that, maybe fetishists sounds a bit too bad.

>>7111974
doubtful, it doesn't matter anyway. you would fit in there with the others who want to needlessly complicate things

>>7112001
trip off

>>7112045
>doubtful, it doesn't matter anyway.
2006, and it matters since you think you know what belongs here and what doesn't.

>you would fit in there with the others who want to needlessly complicate things
Reddit is full of people who deny this condition is even a thing. Here we discuss it in detail. No, I think that debating, coming to a conclusion and moving forward is exactly the kind of thing that fits here.

>>7111957
Who ever said Blanchard's work was all wrong? Sure, he's kind of a shitty person and all, but I don't think that means his work has no value. He was the first to give the phenomena a name after all.

>>7111740
How is everyone? I had a shit day though I found some good shoegaze. There was a thread on /b/ where a FTM showed off his masculine clit which was interesting don't think I've ever seen one. He was nice and answered a lot of questions until the trolls took over. Made me think about transition. About what people on the street think. About my own feelings about it, which vary. I haven't been around very much but just enough about my condition gives me pause. I feel like at 23 I'm just dysphoric enough to consider hrt but I worry it's something else just masquerading as being trans. Anybody got stories about this? I've been quite androgynous up to this point but major anxiety kicked in and now each passing moment I'm on edge. Anyone have experience with epileptic trans? I know feeling dysphoric can cause a litany of seizures in myself makes me twice as foggy. Pretty sure we reach sexual maturity later. I never questioned my relational role to my SO until recently. I knew since middle school what AGP was and that I had a touch of that and I figured that was a bit normal for straight guys getting girls off and only recently correlated that and my crippling depression and self esteem issues. Did you guys try other things besides lifting and crossdressing to make you feel more attractive? I had a chance to get laid a few months back and my brain would not accept it. Deep down, I think it was the relationship dynamic that made it so staunch a decision. I'm sorry for the text block I just feel so much self-doubt and I like hearing about others' experiences. And I have a clinic appointment to make but do not wish to discuss this with another human soul, and be judged for not being a little girl all my life.

>>7112123
what albums?

if you are already making clinic appointments you might as well try the hormones, as it will only get worse as you get older. if you don't want to talk to anybody, you can self med

>>7112116
It's not all wrong, it's just wrong in far too many areas and bad science in general. Very little is accurate beyond the fact that AGP exists and can be comorbid with gender dysphoria. Even Blanchard's way of defining and testing for AGP was wrong (such that you get tons of false positives from cis women or non-AGP trans women).

>>7112001
That's a more neutral term which is better in some way, but it doesn't imply the relationship with gender dysphoria and cross-sex identity that so often accompanies AGP (which is a lot of the reason this general exists).

>>7112116
As I see it what he got right was that this sort of arousal is incredibly common among repressed transsexuals and that, in the era when he did the research, said individuals tended to transition later. The rest of what he said cannot be derived from the data he had and some of it is not only speculative but also damaging. Take the whole "exclusively oriented toward themselves as women" thing. There are people who had AGP, transitioned, stopped experiencing AGP and entered a happy relationship with a man. Beyond it not matching up with such situations the idea that autogynephiles cannot be attracted to others could deter others from being with them (as if they needed any more reasons..).

>>7112123
I don't have the energy to relate my experience at the moment but I want you to know that I hope things work out for you. Accepting that something's wrong isn't easy. Getting help is scary but worthwhile. You can do this.

>>7112129
I'm poor looking for insurance to cover it rn. I'm too lazy to check YouTube but I just found out about m83 Cigarettes After Sex and the middle Mazzy Star album I have the other two. Haven't made the appointment yet got a referral to a mental health clinic and it feels so daunting.

>>7112001
This is sooo much worse

>>7111957
>AGP supposedly causing the development of a cross-gender identity, autogynephiles being unable to be sexually attracted to other people

this pretty much is literally me though?
I had never heard of Blanchard (and still don't know his work) when I first read about the concept of AGP and pretty much instantly thought thats what had been going on in my head this whole time

and either way I guess I don't care because it has definitely lead me down the path to transition. the more I think about transitioning the less I feel arousal at crossdressing and the more it just makes me feel content and happy

>>7112123
I also just turned 23 and I just made an appointment with a therapist. Not sure how long the process takes or how many hoops they'll make me jump through, but its gotten to the point for me where I don't want to waste any more time so I'm just going to start self-medding if it isn't reasonable...plus I hate talking to therapists anyway. I almost don't know why I bothered scheduling the appointment

The purposely not seeking out sexual contact with girls I completely relate to, even though I am attracted to them. I think its the relationship dynamic that causes this for me as well, this is one of the reasons I have come to realize that I am transgender

>>7112624
>this pretty much is literally me though?
I don't have a problem with the idea that some autogynephiles are autoerotic, but with the suggestion that anyone who experiences AGP is necessarily exclusively autoerotic.

I do doubt the capacity of a fetish to slowly turn someone who wasn't trans, trans. Do you feel that this describes you? Is what you are feeling a byproduct of that sexual desire?

>>7112660
I guess I would take issue at calling it a fetish, at least in my experience.

It was the first sexual thoughts I ever had, and they continued for years before I had ever once touched myself or watched porn (once had a wet dream at like 13 where I had a vagina). to me it feels like an orientation in itself

maybe the problem is I don't have a very good grasp on the "definition" of AGP

>>7112693
>I guess I would take issue at calling it a fetish, at least in my experience.
In his defense he didn't call it that. He presented an idea quite similar to your own - AGP as an orientation caused by an Erotic Target Location Error. His claim was that all autogynephiles have some psychological quirk that makes them look for a partner in themselves instead of in the outside world, and as they are straight men they find that partner in their "inner woman".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_target_location_error

I don't want to erase your experience but my opinion is that this is largely nonsense. Autoerotics - people who are only aroused by themselves - with AGP obviously exist but the claim that every autogynephile is exclusively autoerotic contradicts the existence of many (former, since transitioning often subdues the condition until it isn't there anymore) autogynephiles who transition, are sexually active and claim to be attracted to their partners. To dismiss all of them as liars is unreasonable.

The second issue I have is with the claim that AGP causes dysphoria. To be frank we have no way of knowing that. We know the two often show up together, and that dysphoria often intensifies over time, but dysphoria also intensifies over time in non-autogynephiles and there is absolutely no proof that AGP is the source of dysphoric feelings. It is a speculative leap of logic made to try and create a nice clean dichotomy.

Hey! I've began to miss you already

>>7111957
No need to, AGP is an established umbrella term everyone got used to and understands (to some degree at least). Don't care about Blanchard or meemers.

>>7112123
Hello! looking like shit. feeling surprisingly good. Hypomania kicked in, better enjoy it while it lasts.
Speaking of HRT I'll say it again, even being on low doses that produce very small changes make you feel more chill, less anxiety and distress about masculinization. Mental effects are really nice, I didn't expect that and every subtle physical change makes me happy though Im not going to transition.
But if you have other conditions you really have to go see a doc, Id be careful with self medding.

>>7112927
>No need to, AGP is an established umbrella term everyone got used to and understands (to some degree at least).
People don't understand it though, often because it has all of Blanchard's bullshit associated with it. It's the reason why they dismiss the existence of AGP entirely, rather than interpreting it differently like we do. Having a term which is if not more descriptive at least not tainted would, if nothing else, likely be helpful towards getting people to try to understand it rather than dismissing it out of hand.

Are AGPs attracted to women, men, or both?

>>7112829
I think I misrepresented myself, I definitely do feel attraction to other people, just (I imagine) almost certainly more towards myself than average people do

I would agree that is largely nonsense

>>7113269
Mostly women, but attracted to men as validation of their femininity

I've been bi predominantly hetero but turned really gay because only a man can make you feel like a girl

>>7113269
There's no universal pattern. It depends on the individual.

>>7113269
AGP shit is the only thing that gets me hard

>>7113390
no sex until marriage!

>>7113282
>>7112829
Im most certainly very autoerotic and narcissistic too but I can easily get attracted and fall in love with others (well I at least I could when I still had a life)

>>7113269
I'm like almost heterosexual but have never masturbated or fantasized about women.

I have masturbated to men fucking me but i'm not attracted to men at all, only to the idea of being fucked by them because of how feminine it'd make me feel.

I guess im like 90% AGP and then 7% heterosexual and 3% gay. lol.

Has anyone here transitioned at least partially due to AGP and then de-transitioned?

I guess it might be a long-shot because I doubt they would continue coming to places like these

>>7113300
>>7113914
I honestly didn't think people like you existed and I've been here for months. Interesting. The rest of the people I corresponded with were attracted to other people.

>>7114094
It's called *auto* gynephilia.for a reason. And it not like I cant feel attraction to others both sexual and romantic.

>>7114094
Really? I've always seen it as common

>>7113269
Themselves

>>7113931
Get back to me in a year when I find out I'm absolutely unpassable

>>7115212
have you just started?

I have an appointment 7 days from today, really hoping I will be soon

>>7115272
Im a year in

>>7115278

hows that going?

>>7115351
I have dysphoria-related panic attacks almost daily to more than daily, have at least moderate depression, social anxiety, NEET, too old
So not too well

Still waiting for that survey senpai..

AGP here, for years I've obsessed over transitioning, but I wasn't free to do anything because my family is unaccepting. Recently, I moved to university and I happened to be placed in a dorm room alone where for the first time, I am free to dress as a girl whenever I want. I've met a friend who knows I'm both AGP and trans, and she's been very accepting. She's helped me buy girl clothes and done my makeup for me, but the more I've presented as a girl, the more I've realized that I honestly don't care about being one. I obsessed about living as a girl, but now that I'm free to dress in girl clothes, I feel like being a girl isn't that important to me anymore. I guess that I just don't really care about my gender either way. I could be a male or female and it honestly wouldn't matter to me either way. Does anyone else feel this way?

>>7119614
I was totally the same up to the "friend" part, and I also really have my heart set on transitioning. I won't kill myself if I can't but I really am looking forward to it. male body hair is something I really can't stand and I would be really sad if/when my beard starts coming in more and more

>>7119648
to add on, I think I would actually like the whole "femboy" thing but it just seems like a meme and I'm not sure if its the best idea...maybe I'm just clueless but I have never read about taking hormones for that purpose anywhere but here

>>7119254

What survey? I'm waiting on the 2015 U.S. Trans Survey, myself. It's been more than a year and they're a month overdue. I want to see those fucking stats, senpai.

>>7119614

I haven't gotten far enough to wear women's clothing yet. But I don't like this "femboy on HRT life" for sure.

>>7115464
Thats sad to hear, did you see a doc to prescribe you anything? Its not uncommon for trans to need ADs cause dysphoria ends in major depression.

>>7120022
i am taking an ad again but it doesn't really matter - all the ibuprofen in the world can't fix a broken arm

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>dont crossdress cause Im manly and think of it as gross
>mental image of a typical man in stockings puts me off
>finally try some female clothes on
>OMG it feels so good, get exited and lightheaded
>dont even care to fap
>this entire week cant stop thinking of buying more clothes and crossdressing for real
>walking past stockings stand kills me

should I stop before its too late? send help

Alright, I've decided to try HRT and see if things don't get better. I figure that at the very least being on an AA would help me think clearly. Will report back in due time.

>>7120946
It will calm you down that's for sure, dont start with mtf doses.

>>7120911
It's already too late anon

>>7120979
What would you recommend?

>>7120946
same with me! I'm very excited
I'm trying to go through a doctor, am I just wasting time?

>>7120911
It's part of who you are. There is nothing you can do to stop, and why should you want to stop it? There is nothing wrong with wanting to feel like a qt.

>>7121033
like 100mg spiro or 25mg cpa

>>7121529
How long could I realistically take an AA without a hormone supplement?

>>7119254
Still waiting for the weekend and my courseload to lighten up... Eh, whatever, might just do it tonight anyway

>>7121693
probably like 1 year

you will feel tired and have less energy but serious stuff like osteoporosis will a long time to happen

>>7119614
>I've met a friend who knows I'm both AGP and trans, and she's been very accepting.
Where are the lot of you finding these friendly, accepting people!? How do you even explain AGP to a normie?

>>7112123
>How is everyone?
Yesterday I decided to try cutting myself, just to see how painful it would be in case I decide to kill myself.
It's a strange pain, attempting to stab through skin.

>>7122051
Please don't hurt yourself. There are other paths.

>>7122051
I used to do that too but since dropping out of college and starting hrt I've had a lot less stress so I don't do it anymore. I'm not even sure if I'm actually trans or whatever but I like hrt so far.

>>7122051
I sincerely hope you feel better.

>>7122122
Tell me more? Does the anxiety really go away?

>>7122122
Why are you questioning your trans identity?

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>>7120911
Help is on the way! Here you go anon

>>7122037
uni is a wildly different place today than it was 5 years ago

>>7122239
I'm incredibly jealous.

>>7122139
yeah for me most of it went away I think because of
1. college was terrible for me I constantly felt like a freak and a failure since I was failing many classes and I was really scared of letting anyone know

2. since going on hrt my stress or dysphoria or whatever is way less since I know I am not getting more masc I don't have to worry so much about am I really balding is my beard/body hair thicker today etc.

>>7122146
idk it's hard to explain idk if I even understand it myself but I think that I don't feel like a girl but I don't know if I feel like a guy either. Also just leaving my house makes me feel bad most of the time not sure if it's normal anxiety or trans related stuff.

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>>7120911

>>7121418
but if you dont feed it, it wont grow, right? just like any bad habit or addiction you have to resist to overcome it
Im not very experienced with this, thats why I came to ask

>>7122236 >>7121018 >>7123063
please no, dont meme me, I have serious concern after reading of others suffering, on the other hand there seem to be many people who are fine with occasional crossdressing

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if a girl gets turned on by becoming a trap is this aap or partial agp

>>7112693
for a lot of people fetishes feel like an orientation, they can get pretty strong

>>7123142
alright fine, no meme

>how old are you
>how much more masculinization do you have left (i.e. how strong is beard, has your hairline started to recede yet, body hair, etc.)
>if nothing changes, can you see yourself living fine for a while and maybe being happy

two buttons
>A - makes you perfectly cis female
>B - makes you perfectly cis male

>if you have only A, do you press it?
>if you have only B, do you press it?
>if you have both A and B, which do you press, if any?

>>7123197

Describe the fantasy of becoming a trap.

>>7111740
To be honest when I first saw my hrt doctor i was about 1/2 agp 1/2 trans.
Now being on hrt and my sex drive being gone id say I'm full trans. I do get off at the fact that I have boobies when I jack off like once a week.

>>7123214
nearing 30, enough masculinization, can grow full beard

>if nothing changes, can you see yourself living fine for a while and maybe being happy
there are too many things that can affect your wellbeing, my gender/fetish issues are not the priority, but can they become one - thats what Im worry of
or maybe I can live a normal life and indulge in it sometimes

>two buttons
I had to think it over for like 30 minutes, and its not the first time
honestly I don't know, it arouses me to even think of being a woman so I have to calm down, but do I really want to be one? probably not, I'm not trans
on the other hand I wouldn't mind, I would love myself more but that's exactly AGP, right
and if I want to be perfectly cis man with none of these desires, what should I do?

>>7123214
Not that poster but I'm kind of struggling with the same stuff, so I'll have a go at this

>age
23
>masculinization
I'm full on masc t b h. I normally have a full beard, mustache, body hair. I hate my body hair but I'm mostly ok with my facial hair as I think it complements my face well. However I feel like I would look better (and feel better) with a more feminine face.
>if nothing changes can you be happy
Yes. I think so... I have been doing the sissy meme with my gf for a while and that was ok but I'd prefer to be able to take it beyond the bedroom. Idk. Maybe I've just become skilled at repression. Perhaps my dysphoria stems from my own body image issues, wishing I could be more comfortable as a woman since I'm not that comfortable as a "man"

>two buttons
If I only had A I would press it no questions asked.

If I only had B, I guess I'd want to know what "perfectly cis male" means. I have some gynecomastia, if that went away and I could be rid of any dysphoria at all I'd press it. If it meant I could just take these thoughts out of my head I would yea.

If I have both I would still choose A.

>>7113269
Personally I only want to fuck a guy if I were a girl. I think I could be talked into lesbian sex, but only to arouse a guy.

I'm without a doubt attracted to women, but I can't be the only one here waiting for hormones to make me into the massive faggot that I feel I am in my heart, right?

I literally know I'm not

>>7126478
I've never been attracted to men or women but I was hoping transitioning would let me out of my shell hopefully I could love somebody

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>>7126478
Are you in Iran or something? You dont need mones to be a faggot and sleep with men.

You mean you want to be a woman and have sex with men as a validation of you femininity, I believe thats normal for AGP. I feel the same.

Interestingly I read a story on a fetish board from an agp/sissy who went all in and had sex with men and only enjoyed the part of being treated like a little whore but not getting fucked, cause he wasn't turned on by men. It was better in his fantasies, reality was a downer.

>>7126525
You never felt attraction or had a crush on someone In school or maybe even to a fictional character? Isnt that called aromantic?

>>7126552
No crushes, maybe it is but I know I'm agp. Agp has been my only sexual relief as well.

>>7126531
I have but its been straight ("straight") friends that I played the girl for, mostly blowjobs. in my mind I felt like a woman, in their minds I'm sure I was a guy

actually feeling like woman for us both, and not feeling being thrown aside afterword, would be great

>>7126727
also never had anything like a bf, just a friends with benefits situation with male friends. only have had decent makeout sessions with girls which is sad because I really like kissing, especially when you've done it with another person enough to get some kind of understanding (or whatever) between the two of you. really really great feeling

>>7126605
same here. tho im pretty sure that if i wasnt so autistic i'd probably develop feelings for someone.

hard to fall for someone when u barely leave ur room and have no friends.

But yeah my only sexual relief is also AGP

>>7126906
unless doing those things turn u on i'd direct u to
/mtfg/

>>7126478
I had to try and convince myself I *wasn't* attracted to men for years. Mind, I'm only attracted to very few people, most of which are women, and am aroused by them rarely.

Anyone here alt-right + AGP? I'm not full retarded 14/88 but I do support Trump and and want to see SJWism destroyed(as does our friend Blanchard).

I'm a 32 yo Canadian who as a teenager kept his inner woman hidden and couldn't even tell he was "trans" despite knowing about transexuality. To this day i'm scared to buy womens clothng.

So l've watched the world go full SJW and deveoped a taste for redpills, while coming to terms with a condition thats haunted me for years. Everytime I see a delusional SJW AGP tranny on the net I'm reminded what I am.

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>>7127074
I'm East German commie + AGP. While I wish that some communists were more accepting of the LGBT community, the fact that they aren't doesn't make me give up on the movement or anything like that. I still support most other aspects of it, even if we disagree on that one part. Also, I'm able to keep my personal life and politics separate enough that it doesn't really affect me (stealth).

I know the pain of dealing with SJWs, but you just have to try and not let them represent you and realize that you can be your own representative of what the LGBT community is. You are not one of those delusional SJW AGP trannys, but rather you are your own person with their own reasons for doing things.

>>7126478
For me, it was pretty much the best feeling ever when my sexuality changed. Just give it time. How old are you + how long have you taken hormones for?

>>7127074
Sorry, I'm a SJW. Well, not the shrill university kind, but close enough.

>>7127185
I thought the scientific consensus was that hormones can't change one's sexuality. Do you think that your case upturns that or perhaps you were repressing that part of yourself before transitioning?

Ok so apparently Bica is better for femboys, can someone explain that? And if I start taking spiro now would I be able to switch to Bica in a months time when my scholarship money comes in? Also is ordering eat roger and AA's legal in the UK?

Anyone want to tell what it was that pushed them over the edge on starting HRT?

I started posting on crossdressers.com a couple months back and noticed 95% of the posters were over 50 and in no way passable. I ordered the hormones when I realised if I ever looked like that I'd kill myself

>>7127405

When I noticed my hair line receding. It still took me a year after that because I bought the "you shouldn't self-med" meme and I didn't feel the courage to go outside to an LGBT clinic.

>>7127405

Lol that's awesome, total inverse of tranny stories about transvestite hons scaring them into the closet in the late 90s/early 2000s. When I met the hon brigade online as a teenager in the late 90s, they didn't even scare me at all because I didn't know HRT was a thing, I didn't have dysphoria over my body then. I just wanted to wear womens clothing so bad. I thought some of the hons did good with what they had, and some were trainwrecks and a little creepy.

>>7127341
Source on that claim? I've heard quite a few people claim that their sexuality changed on HRT.

Also, I don't think I was repressing it at all, because I remember actually trying to be interested in/experiment with men, but it never did anything for me.

>>7127074
nah m8, honestly I can't stand alt-righters. can't you just be a libertarian?
I'm not an SJW but I am a socialist, and I've started becoming more and more amenable to that stuff as I internalize how shitty being a tranny is

>>7127556

I used to think libertarianism was cool, but I started to drift towards the alt-right because it made more sense.

I'm actually cool with socialism which is why I can't stand libertarianism, I'm just socialist in an alt-right sorta way.

I know that AGP and dysphoria feel, I manage it with weed, videogames and willpower.

>>7127816
I think alt-right + socialism = fascism, you naughty goy

>>7127841
This

>b-but if I'm a good Nazi they won't kill me

you'll just be used as an uncle tom poster boy until they don't need you.

>>7127816
>I'm just socialist in an alt-right sorta way
really makes you think

>>7127850
nah because they already openly say that they hate me (most of them)

I guess my thinking is that the mainstream lgbt movement is what has poisoned the well for them towards me. as long as you're not in people's face about it and wanting to teach it to children, I don't think it would really be a problem

and even if it was a problem and they would hate me regardless, that doesn't mean that the social justice privileged bullshit is any less stupid than it is

>>7127862
You don't have to be a Nazi to dislike SJW retards

I mean associate with whoever you want but I think getting involved with the alt-right is ultimately detrimental to yourself. It's kinda pathetic too considering how many of them are anti-GSM

>>7126858
I made some new friends, forcing myself to leave my room. I usually have these agp/trans thoughts until we smoke so I know its just another form of escapism.

>>7127405
Same as you senpai. I started femboy hrt to stop any further madculization because I am dealthy afraid of being a hon.

i have been transitioning 4 months, i dress really femenine sometimes and pass most of the time as an ugly-face girl.
when im with my gf i like to play in front of the mirror and see my body, it turns me on to be such a cutie. is it wrong? I was 100% I wasnt AGP when i started transition, I really wanted to be sure I was going to do it because I want to be a girl and not because I was horny.
Is it possible that I started to act this way because I became more confident with myself?

>>7128028
my butt is getting big and I look at it in the mirror wayy more than I would like to admit

>>7128028
As far as I understand it this is pretty normal even for cis women as long as the thought is "I'm going to be SO hot for my partner" rather than it being completely self-directed. If this only occurs to you in the context of being with your girlfriend then I wouldn't call it AGP.

>>7128028
>>7128122
Even if it's directed at oneself it's not necessarily AGP. Narcissistic attraction is a real thing.

In practice there's probably not too much of a distinction between them, and either way it's not something to be ashamed of nor worried about.

>>7128152
You're right. This makes me wonder whether, rather than one causing the other, there could be some common neurological Thing that makes people prone to both transsexuality and autoeroticism, with AGP simply being the manifestation of the two at the same time.

While this is an interesting idea it does not really cover those individuals who are just AGP but not trans, but then perhaps the two groups are only superficially similar. This is pure conjecture at this point.

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>>7127405
>its not getting any better, so why not
the other option was drowning myself in alcohol and self-loathing
but Im not going to go full hrt or transition

>>7128455
I wish I didn't know that feel

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>ywn be a cute redhead lesbian girl

Why even live? This episode triggered my AGP hard.

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>>7128685
I can remember being in like elementary school and being very strangely captivated with this episode of fairly odd parents...little did I know at the time...

>>7128685
>>7128732
Now that you've mentioned it I recall obsessing over crossdressing scenes in various movies/cartoons when I was a kid. I don't remember feeling any dysphoria though. Just a strange fascination. Either we're born fucked up or something messed us up really early.

>>7128834
I used to blame how I was raised, the more I talk to other people on here the more convinced I am that its something we're born with

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>>7128685
tbhon Mackenzie Davis looks like she could be a transgirl with that massive chin

>>7111740
So THIS is what I've been experiencing for the past 3 years.
Glad to finally know what to call it.

>>7128093 >>7128152
thats what all the fit guys do as well, its normal

>>7127074
you are certainly not the only one who has developed an affinity for the redpills. not sure if I'm necessarily "alt-right" because I don't have a problem with people who aren't white as long as we can all live in a western culture together and safely

>Everytime I see a delusional SJW AGP tranny on the net I'm reminded what I am.
what are you on about? how can you look at an insane liberal person who happens to be a tranny and consider yourself the same thing?

and why don't you order clothes off of amazon? thats how I do it

I can't get off without seeing myself as a female/putting myself in a female's position/imagine being touched in the girlspot that I don't (yet?) have.

Is this AGP or Dysphoria or some combination?
>transbian btw

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>>7127074
>To this day i'm scared to buy womens clothng.
No one would judge you, no one cares - you are buying them for your gf or sister or w/e. And tell that to yourself too so you dont get too exited.
>Im just shopping for presents for my gf
I live in far less liberal country than Canada and I even tried on some clothes that were female unisex.
And yeah online shopping is a thing too.

I really don't to bring political discussions here.

>>7128915
that's not a massive chin, stop creating BDD you dumb shit

will killing myself make the agp go away

>>7130239
that is the only cure anon

>>7127394
Bica doesn't kill your balls and dick and has limited blood-brain barrier penetration, you still have T in your blood, but it blocks the receptors. You loose less muscle too (at least in theory).
People have switched AAs, so its not a problem, you better ask those with experience for details.

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>>7130239
Of course not, you will be reborn with stronger dysphoria, so quit thinking of it!

>>7130358
i don't want to live or have anything happen after death

that scares me

i just want my consciousness to stop existing

>>7130374
>tfw waking up every morning regretting you didnt die in your sleep
>having no will to do anything
>tfw couldn't make yourself go out to even buy meds

Depression is a terrible condition that needs treatment. HRT really helps and whatever little support you can get from friends or people who understand you.

>>7128122
>>7128028
>>7128152
even if it is AGP it doesn't fucking matter

>>7130433
honestly I wish I had realized this earlier
I can't speak for everyone with what we refer to as AGP but I know that is essentially is my sexual orientation

why not transition if I'm given the opportunity?

>>7130557
become the girl of your dreams!

god, I wish it hit me earlier and I wasn't so closeted

>>7127841

It's true, while I'd rather see a softer form of fascism like Trump, I realise that a more hardcore form of fascism may be inevitable in the long run. The hardcore neonazi types hate LGBT, but some of the softer nationalist types are ok with it.

>>7127862

Exactly, this is part of whats causing tensions to worsen. They are teaching transgenderism to children now in some places. Which is ok, but it should be taught cautiously by Blanchard and Zucker types at an appropriate age.

>>7130119

Because it reminds me if I had been born later I'd probably be a tranny, possibly an insane liberal retard like them. I also know I share the same root condition as them deep down, I'm just too woke to act on it.

>>7130210

I live in a less liberal part of Canada, so if people I know found out it could get pretty awkward. I guess I could try online shopping sometime. Although I live with my parents(not a neet) and I sure wouldn't want them finding out. Yes I know just hide your stash, dress up when their out etc.

>find out I'm getting let back in to uni
>go back and see old friends
>things are going great
>come up to a mirror
>see a cute asian girl looking back at me
>smile and feel really good
>wake up
>start crying when I can't fall back asleep

>>7130653

I never dream about being a woman and it sucks. Although maybe I'm lucky in a way.

>>7130611
t. typical self-hating closeted fag/tranny/etc.

>>7130694
I'm not him but I'm a self hating closeted tranny.

I don't really know what to do about it. I feel like i'd have someone find out I'm a pedophile.


I keep thinking about ordering hormones but I'm scared and my parents finding them would be worse than them finding heroine.

>>7130683
I almost never do, that confirms I'm not trans. I've had funny crossdressing dreams (but I have fucked up sleeping and hardly ever recall my dreams)

>>7130727
My mom once found my drugs and was scared that I'll go to jail. There is nothing disastrous about it really, parents love their children and wish them well (at least most parents). They want a good life for you and you need HRT to make your life better.

I know its very hard to get over dependency on parents and their judgment, but you have to live for yourself, you need it and in the end you are doing nothing bad, its the right thing.

>>7130431
>hrt helps with depression
when will this meme die?

How many of you, non trans agp sufferers found that cross dressing worsens your mental state?
Also is there a guide for cross dressing here?

>>7130751
being trans has nothing to do with what you dream about or if you can recall your dreams

I've finally accepted to myself that I belong here.

I guess I've always known I'm AGP but repressed it because it's so taboo. Like even trannies despise it. I wanted it to be something else, something more normal.

I'm a small and skinny guy and it's hard to love myself as such. There are expectations of men that I can't fulfill, so I'm more bothered being too weak than too masculine. On the other hand I always get turned on by AGP triggers -- ordinarily nonsexual things like shopping for accessories and having to select the girl's size for my 5.5 inch wrists. Now that I'm accepting myself as an AGP sufferer I realize I've taken neotenous features such as my small frame and no body hair for granted.

Reading through this thread, I relate so much with you guys. I remember that fairly odd parents episode too. I guess this wasn't something that just came up with puberty, but instead was amplified by puberty. I have sisters and one of the first things I did as a horny 11 year old was put on their bras but I stopped shortly after when I was caught with their makeup. I never even put the makeup on lol, but I liked having it in my possession. I knew the feelings were shameful. To cope, I turned to browsing questions on yahoo answers (this was like 2008) that girls asked about their sexuality. The first porn I looked at was lesbian and solo girls, normal stuff. I was afraid of men until I found futa and shemales and then escalated to "porn for women" which was intimate sensual stuff. I still like that but I like some gay stuff now too. I get turned by alluring men. In real life I'm only attracted to people if they're attracted to me. I'm passive and rarely initiate. I never sought out sex or expressed sexual desire with others. I don't like feeling pressured to be sexual either. I guess I'm narcissistic af as I get turned by either gender now when it comes to just talking with them and they say something that I take as a compliment, despite having a very low sex drive.

>>7130830
Are you trans? What do you see yourself as in dreams and if you transitioned, did anything change during /after?

>>7130839
you're probably trans

the secret no one tells you is that tonnes of those trans girls you are looking at and thinking "this person is a real legitimate trans not like me" used to feel exactly like you but either overcame it or stopped caring.

>>7130876
I think that I'm trans
this is me >>7122453

I very rarely ever dream and if I do it's not about trans stuff just random things or like scary nightmares idk

>>7130893
oh yeah sorry about how I see myself I'm not sure really

it's like I'm not aware of my body or gender or whatever at all in dreams

>>7130839
Ran out of space but I'm just blogging anyhow.

I've been having more AGP and gay dreams lately, which is a reflection of it being more actively on my mind.

I'm not really sure what to do anymore. I have a low drive for life with alternating optimism and pessimism, and to top it off I'm a NEET with no friends, formerly a full blown shutin, but I overcame much of my social anxieties. Maybe I'm autistic. Oh god now I sound like a hypochondiac but I'm not trying to make excuses or whatever. It's embarrassing when my family, especially young cousins ask if I have a girlfriend and then why not. If I were a normal straight guy or even a normal gay dude it would be a lot easier to go about life, but I don't know what I want out of a relationship besides a family, and I'm still way too immature for that.

This issue is really off putting because I feel like I wouldn't be able to hold a relationship without failing to satisfy or be satisfied and if I have no hope for successful relationships then I have no hope for anything. More than anything I'd like to just be able to be myself, but I can't help that I get turned on by these things.

>>7130839
u sound a lot like me. Crossdressing, turned on by alluring dudes, passive and not interested in initiating sexual stuff, i also remember that episode and probably masturbated to it.

I'm not very much into porn though. I happen to only like feminization hypnosis' and erotica. Sometimes ill go into /d/ for some fap material though, but it's usually not visual stuff.

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>>7130922
>>7130839
AGP isn't trans right?
Because this is literally me and I'm starting to get worried since from what I hear repression never works.

>>7130876
>>7130878
Ugh I hope not. I'm OK with being a guy lol but I can't deny anymore that I get turned by thoughts of transitioning. Reading about HRT turns me on. But in reality I think I'd feel creepy af trying to be a girl, talking in a fake voice and whatnot.

It's funny you ask about my dreams. I think I'm typically like 14 in them or at least that's how I act. I'm 22 now but I have a lot of recurring dreams being back in middle school. Sometimes I dream of looking in the mirror and I'm a girl in the reflection but for the most part I'm just me and I'm not the focus. I've had more dreams lately of shopping for girls clothes too but I also have plenty of normal dreams as well.

>>7130924
Yeah I never look at porn anymore except to force myself every once in a while. I'm sorry you have to go through this as well but it's comforting to know we're not alone. I spent a lot of time repressing this and still part of me feels like an impostor and that I don't belong here desu but I can't deny what arouses me anymore.

>>7130942
I don't know anon. I hope it's separate. I don't know how to deal with this which is why I'm here for the most part.

I have some online friends I'm open with about everything in my life except for this, I try to be as open as myself as I can, but I still overcompensate and lean toward being artificially masculine, and they can still tell that I'm feminine and they call me out on this when I've been trying to repress it. They think I'm gay too because one noticed I like it when he talks sexually to me. But sometimes they'll say they're just trolling and then other times they say to just come out already. I would but I don't really feel gay.

>>7131008
I sure fucking hope that it's separate, although I still can't really see a future with me in it regardless of whether it is or isn't.
>father was extremely homophobic when I was growing up, especially toward feminine men
>smacked and screamed at me when he saw me with my mothers lipstick on
>mother cried when she saw me with her bra on
>years later when I saw my cousins face with makeup done by his sister I panicked and ran crying out of the room
If it isn't trans then it still fucking sucks. For some strange reason these memories still stick around and they make me doubt myself every time I remember them. I've been tempted to indulge in these desires like wearing cute clothes in private but I'm afraid that they'll just strengthen the desires rather than relieve me of them.

>>7130942
>>7130966
well even if you don't want to transition right now just remember that it is an option and *most* therapists listening to your story would approve you.

>>7131043
I feel you. I've internalized those taboos so much that I stopped considering putting on girls clothes altogether and told myself I'd just feel creepy if I did, but at the same time I get turned on while shopping online for girls clothes and seeing that the small sizes would actually fit me. Maybe it's mild for me and I feel this way because I spend a lot of time alone, but then it's not like I ever explored these thoughts having repressed them, so maybe if I lived an active life I would've gotten around to these feelings even sooner. Who knows. I don't know what to do, we're in the same boat with fears of strengthening the desires and then maybe becoming dysphoric about being too masculine as we age but it's a lot of mental gymnastics, and there's the risk of social ostracization if we go for it and major depression if we don't. Just keep taking it one day at a time, baby steps, gradually doing what makes you feel better, I guess.

>>7131106
>but at the same time I get turned on while shopping online for girls clothes
Yep same here.
I remember browsing a recipe website and seeing an ad about ordering tailored dresses. Made me feel elated until I suddenly thought, why the fuck is this making me happy?
>so maybe if I lived an active life I would've gotten around to these feelings even sooner
Again same here.
But yeah I'm slowly taking 'baby' steps. For example I've always been bothered by certain hairs on my body but I've begun plucking/shaving them now since my father isn't around anymore and I don't feel as much shame.

>>7131086
Is my story that serious? Jeez I mean I know I'm not normal but I feel like transitioning is a huge decision for the most serious cases. Like I really just want to be able to express myself openly without being afraid of inhibiting myself, and I think trying to transition and worry about passing would only get in the way of that. I know this is something about me I can't ignore, and it happens to be one of the most taboo things in society, and I don't understand it beyond that I get turned on by feeling feminine. But if I were to transition I'd have to constantly be thinking whether I'm acting girly enough or whatever and I'd be afraid to be myself when I want to do things that are masculine. And most of my interests are typical guy things and stuff I think but I do like feminine things too that I have to repress as well but that's life. I don't know how my online friends were able to call me out so quickly on this. They call me a girl all the time actually but idk if they're joking or not.

I don't want to feel like I'm pretending to be someone else. I want to express my true self and be respected for it.

>>7131129
>Made me feel elated
>why the fuck is this making me happy?
thats the oddest part when you dont really feel aroused, but just lightheaded and happy and like have tingles allover
this has fucked with my mind the most, otherwise I'd just fap and forget like I used to do for a while
>spent an hour re-imaging my childhood memories as if I had been a girl

t.imnottrans

>>7131156
kek we must be the exact same person then, except your probably cute looking whereas I look ugly by any standards. But yeah I used to spend hours just imagining my childhood as a girl during my young-late teens.

>>7131129
This condition is real then.

A lot of things I did I never thought were weird. I just did it because I wanted to. I've only grown out my pubes a few times in my life because I can shave without others knowing I am. It always turned me on while shaving down there but I told myself it was normal, it was just because of the physical sensation. Then last week I decided to shave my armpits. I last shaved them when I was like 13. I stopped because I knew it was weird for guys to do that. Well while shaving them I got really turned on, just instinctively turned on. I had decided to shave on a whim and I wasn't feeling sexual at all until I started doing it. I also started grooming my eyebrows earlier this year and feel like I can never go back to looking like I did in older pics. Don't get me wrong I know grooming is normal and healthy, but being turned on for reducing your masculinity isn't normal. Especially when I have a low sex drive but this stuff just instinctively turns me on.

>>7130611
personally I am going to transition. I'm 23 and I browse /pol/ daily, probably take about half the things seriously

grew up in a conservative household so that probably shaped my beliefs...also had thrown all that off and voted for obama in 2012 (shameful I know) in my first election. used to be a fedora atheist, now I am starting to believe in god because it seems to make more sense and more importantly I can see those who live without belief in god generally live some shit lives compared to those who do

I would never sell myself so short to think that just because I have a fucked up brain (and I do) that I am incapable of reasoning and thinking for myself

>>7131201
Shit maybe I should post here more often because I also was aroused when shaving my body, for me the left chest, my right thigh and my back.
>>7131205
Interesting.
How can you justify transitioning if you believe in God? I'm terrified of God and it's probably the biggest block for me to even consider doing anything right now.

>>7131218
well its not like I ever ever WANTED to have the desire to transition, never was I ever not horribly embarrassed by it, I would not wish it on anyone or encourage to someone who doesn't feel the way I did

I feel like god put it in me (still coming around the the idea of god I suppose, but if I had to bet money I would bet yes for sure). I don't feel like I am ruining a part of god's plan because it really is something I was either born with or was put into me at such a young age that I really had no control over. if you blame porn for your feelings, I went several years between first crossdressing and fantasies of being a girl before either masturbating or ever watching porn. I guess if I'm doing something wrong I really am sorry but it feels like there isn't much I can do about it

>>7131156
>>spent an hour re-imaging my childhood memories as if I had been a girl
That's so sad anon :(
I never did this but I had a good childhood and had sisters and never really thought about gender. My life didn't get turned upside down until puberty so that's the part I always ruminate on. I don't know if it's normal or means anything but I did get erections as a child when I had no clue what it meant. Some of the ones I remember are from an anatomy picturebook, the skinny dipping scene in the parent trap, and from my neighbor running around naked in his backyard. Why would a boy turn me on at 8 but then I was repulsed by guys in porn in puberty? And now sometimes I like guys but other times I'm repulsed. I was repressing?

>>7131151
sorry I might have been projecting myself on your posts

it just seemed like (to me) you wished you could transition but didn't think it was okay or something like that

if you're okay with continuing to live as male that's fine to you just have to figure out what works best for you personally.

>>7131167
Last time I was cute I was in kindergarden. I look hopelessly manly already with huge forehead and chin.

>>7131242
Cant complain about my childhood and I never had acute dysphoria besides hating body hair and all the gross masculinization and always wanted to be androgynous rather than a woman, well besides in sex. But recently AGP 'leaked' into my normal life and started to consume all my existence.

>>7131235
Yeah I kind of get it anon, why be miserable trying to pretend to be somebody you aren't. It's funny that you browse /pol/ though considering how blatantly transphobic they are.

>>7130942
Just experiencing AGP does not make you trans but you can be AGP and trans. At least for a while, anyhow, since AGP has a tendency of going away after transitioning.

>>7131286
know any other politically focused free-speech place online?

>>7131242
>And now sometimes I like guys but other times I'm repulsed. I was repressing?
Could be just bi with strong hetero preference sexual orientation is rather a scale than binary.

>>7131286
honestly its not as bad as you'd think, obviously you'll be called a degenerate, to kill yourself, etc by some people, but overall they're pretty nice

today I spent about 5 hours watching cops with people there and after a few hours with the same handful of people I said (in so many words) I was transgender and its not like they hated me, probably mostly because I shared many of their viewpoints

really I think a large part of the issue is it feeling like its forced down their throat to call someone who puts no effort into their appearance/voice, doesn't shave their beard, to still call that person a woman if they demand it. and when laws (like in canada) make it an actual crime to misgender this person

if you just live your life quietly while holding up the ideals of western society I don't think there is much of a problem. /pol/ loves a nice feminine penis, and that is just a fact

>>7131205
>used to be a fedora atheist, now I am starting to believe in god because it seems to make more sense and more importantly I can see those who live without belief in god generally live some shit lives compared to those who do
>I would never sell myself so short to think that just because I have a fucked up brain (and I do) that I am incapable of reasoning and thinking for myself
You sound wise for your time anon. I fell for the materialism meme too. It's a very ugly world view, no wonder neckbeard atheists are social outcasts while religious folks are well adjusted. I also had a Christian upbringing, church every Sunday as a kid, and I was still religious until 13 when my life was getting so bad despite praying every night, so I got angry at god. If I never faced such adversity I never would've given up on religion so there is a bit of a causality situation going on with atheist sampling.
>>7131235
I used to blame porn too but had AGP fantasies before I ever orgasmed, and rationalized them away as normal interest in girls. But even when I had gfs I never made any moves on them.

Good luck with your transition. Follow your heart and you'll find peace or at least come closer to it. We may have fucked up brains but we still have individual identities that need to be expressed. I've come to learn nothing beats the old bluepill adage "be yourself." That's the best anyone can do. If you're not doing what you feel is right for yourself then you're not respecting yourself and you will hate yourself for it. I know it's a lot easier to stand on the sideline as life passes you by, crippled by the fear of making the wrong move because you're stuck thinking about what others think is the right or wrong way to act rather than what you believe is best for yourself. You have my admiration.

>>7131286
to add, you'll be called a degenerate if you drink alcohol...or if you don't. or if you're a nazi...or if you aren't. or if you're circumcised. or if you smoke the herbal jew (marijuana). or if you believe the earth is round. or if you watch sports...or don't. etc etc

at some point you just start seeing actual degeneracy in yourself and want to better yourself without necessarily taking everything so seriously

>>7131334
That's nice and all until it comes to voting on whether you deserve basic human rights. Democracy forces you to care about the opinions of others in a way other forms of government don't.

>>7131351
basic human rights are definitely nice

democracy has many downsides. there is a lot to be said for a happier society being ruled by a few dominating parties with greater overall inequality and no class mobility but everyone knowing their role

>>7131346
actually pol loves transgirls as much as the rest of 3shins, some attentionwhoring threads would go to bumplimit
but recent months its been a shit/shillfest due to elections

>>7131375
Very accurate. It will be nice to have my pol back soon

>>7131340
>It's a very ugly world view
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."- Samuel 15:3

"But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth; But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee"
Deuteronomy 20:16-17

Here's God ordering genocide multiple times, but sure, the null hypothesis is "ugly".

>>7131319
I've heard about that, but then there are people who adamantly stick to the binary orientations, but to me that would mean repressing. Being bi makes more sense, but in reality there aren't that many gay guys so it's best kept as a fantasy and not worrying about it until something happens irl. Like I thought maybe I'm only interested in bigger guys who can make me feel feminine but then just last week I saw a really cute fem twink at the movie theater, and I was never into twinks or fem boys online. I guess I'm coming out to myself as bi :) I wish I could be done with it but too many people irl wouldn't understand, my family is homophobic so idk I think it's best I hold off until I've actually been with a guy if ever and I want a family one day so idk

>>7131273
Well it turns me on to think about it but in reality it's scary af. I'd feel like an impostor. So I guess I'm cis but androphobic. I'm not a masculine guy and so I think I internalized all the hate on weak numales betas cucks etc. But I realized I am who I am. Cis men and women who take sex steroids to look more dimorphic are not unlike Trans men and women who take sex steroids to look more dimorphic in the opposite direction. So my decision is based on what I can do to facilitate individual expression. Looks are just that. In reality it's how you express yourself. I realized I've been repressing my sexuality because it's so taboo and we all know it is, we have the same fear that if we start expressing what the AGP urges us to do it will grow stronger and we'll end up throwing away any chance of a normal life, but if we repress we eventually end up like the old stereotypes, socially ostracized creeps. So idk how to deal with this but I guess I can only take it 1 day at a time and coming out about this to my online friends soon would be the next step.

>>7131400
>picking old testament verses
>implying I'm some kinda jew

>>7131466
This is still the same God m8. The Christian God is the Jewish God.

>>7123214
21
Medium beard and heavy body hair
6.2 189cm

Would press A but not B i think

>>7131334
The low effort trannies with beards demanding to be called women and have legal female status is a serious problem, and sooner or later will lead to a normie backlash.

This is also relevant http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/no-the-trans-rights-bill-doesnt-criminalize-free-speech

Beware of slippery slopes though. It's amazing how pro trans the Canadian Parliament has become, although the senate could always cockblock that shit.

>>7131304
>anyone who disagrees with me is a cuck shill
>free-speech

>there are no other chans

>>7131521
can any man who gets mocked a 'pussy' sue the offender under that marvelous law?

>>7128834
>>7128732
the scene in the scooby doo movie, fred's ghost enters in daphne's body and says "I can look at myself naked"
I loved that scene but my mom was shocked

>>7131643
>Bill C-16 adds the words "gender identity or expression" to a list of protected classes under the Canadian Human Rights Act and to the Criminal Code.

>The Human Rights Act protects certain groups, prone to discrimination, from being fired, evicted, or otherwise discriminated against in federally-regulated workplaces, housing projects, or through Ottawa-run services.

>>7122058
I just needed to know if I could do it.
>>7122135
I don't but it's whatever. I didn't cry yesterday so it's good.

>>7131753
is there anything else that you can use as an outlet? weed, alcohol, vidya, food?

When I get aroused, I naturally get into some degrading things. You know, sissy shit. I don't like it, but it's really the only thing that gets me off anymore. I've always really liked the idea of being a girl sexually, ever since I was a kid. Sometimes not even sexually, I just like the thought of being a girl. What makes it even worse is that I could probably pass if I put effort into my appearance and lost a bit of weight.

Usually, after I finish, I tell myself I'm going to stop and that I should start doing something more manly, like lifting or something. I tend to get aroused the next day and I immediately get back into it.

>>7131825
I feel you. My fantasies are extremely embarrassing. At this point I would be happier if I could just get off to the idea of being a normal woman having normal sex.

>Sometimes not even sexually, I just like the thought of being a girl.
Since you're here I'm obliged to ask: do you feel confident in your gender identity?

>>7131918
For a while I thought I might've been trans, but now I'm certain I'm a cis male.

>>7131926
Fair enough. A lot of people fail to see the forest for the trees so I err on the side of caution.

>>7131931
Yeah. I'm just a cis male who likes feminine things and the idea of being a girl. I don't like having AGP though. It's awful.

>>7131939
You could try finding a partner who's okay with bringing this to bed. I understand your shame but at the end of the day there's probably someone out there whose perversion perfectly complements your own.

>tfw agp won't go away
>will probably kill myself within the week

why won't it stop ;_;

>>7132351
just transition instead desu sempai

>>7132365
I wouldn't pass and it wouldn't work out.


My hairline is receding very badly
even though I'm 19. I have a very heavy brow, defined jaw, no hips, wide shoulders, etc.

>>7132381
>19
literally not even done growing
fuck i hate bdd youngshits

>>7132381
Just have fun. You just need to find someone who will treat you like a doll sometimes. You don't need to change your gender for this to happen.

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>>7132385
It doesn't matter how young I am when I don't look young at all.

My hairline looks like this but slightly worse.

>>7132394
it's called being young enough for natty hip growth and ffs fixes any hair line issue

>>7132445
I don't magically have several thousand dollars to get ffs

>>7132449
nobody does, they save

>>7132452
Even if I magically passed I still have plenty of other issues.

If a car has so many problems that fixing it costs significantly more than just getting a new car, it's easier to just get a new car and throw the defective one away.

I don't think I could handle any of that stuff anyway (transitioning, etc).

>>7132459
except you can't get a new car

>>7132467
yeah but i don't really want or enjoy my car

it causes me suffering

>>7132469
if you can't get a new car but you don't like your current car isn't the next logical step to try to fix your current car?

>>7132655
or just run it into the ocean!

>>7132698
you could try that too I guess but fixing it might be worth a try...

>>7132351
Please don't. You can find a way to make things better. People are often not very objective when it comes to themselves. Thinking clearly, is there anything you can do to improve your situation? What would make you happy? Is your body really unsalvagable? Can you not hold on and gather the necessary money if this is the path you choose to walk?

>>7132818
Part of my problem is that I swing back and forth from wanting to kill myself.

For a few hours earlier when I posed that I was crying and making plans to kill myself and now I'm fine I guess, I mean I'm still apathetic and don't enjoy anything and hate life but I'm not crying and making plans to die.

But eventually I'm going to get sick of being like this and the episodes of depression are getting worse.

>>7131151
>But if I were to transition I'd have to constantly be thinking whether I'm acting girly enough or whatever and I'd be afraid to be myself when I want to do typical things that are masculine.

You'd be surprised how much HRT can change your personality.

>>7132903
How does it change your personality


does it fall into my anime fantasy
[spoiler]
>have been repressing femininity whole life
>made fun of by parents when young for being girly
>constantly overanalyze every situation bc scared of acting girly or feminine
>take hrt
>suddenly I'm freed and can act super girly and fem [/spoiler]

>>7131825
This. My fantasies usually start off pretty innocent, but I end up climaxing to thoughts that disgust me afterwards. It wouldn't be such a huge problem if AGP stuff wasn't pretty much the only thing that turns me on now.

>>7132829
Things can get better. People get depressed and eventually overcome it, or at least get to the point where life feels worthwhile. You can do that too. Are you seeing a therapist? If not you should strongly consider doing so.

>>7132903
Really? Most people I've talked to said that it did not change their personality much. Mostly it made them able to Feel Feelings instead of being emotionless pseudohumans.

>>7132939
Time to steer your AGP toward fantasies of having wholesome sex with your husband in the missionary position m80.

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>tfw looking up Chyna Chase pictures on Google and masturbating to the idea of having a body like hers
>tfw your dreams are just dreams

This is one of my favorite photos.

>>7131649

Ha, so someone else here has seen that movie. I don't remember if that triggered my AGP, though. I was probably too young to have a sexual interest in being a girl.

>>7130653

So why are you prohibited from going back to university? I assume it was bad grades.

>>7130782

It definitely helps with the anxiety of ever-increasing masculinization.

>>7133036
I'd obviously switch with her if I could but to be honest living with breasts that large must be tiring.

>>7133114

She's 4'11" too, so I imagine it's especially tiring. I wonder if her big butt helps balance her though.

>>7130653
I read this soon after I woke up and I wasn't mentally or emotionally ready even though I should have expected it. I cried.

I know that feel, even though I've never had any dreams where I've been outright female. I've had dreams where I'm much more feminine, or where I have a loving and accepting partner, and I've been deeply engrossed in fantasies in which I'm been female (especially when I'm on the verge on sleep).

It's cruel how natural it feels, and how inevitable it is for it to be torn away. I'm sorry anon.

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>>7127074
AGP tranny here, the alt-right is trash and so are SJWs. I swallowed the ultimate red pill and became an anti-capitalist egoist anarchist.

>>7132961
I could start with that, but I'd just end up fantasizing about being tied up and gangbanged.

I think one of the features of AGP fantasies that disturbs me the most is that I keep thinking about men even though I'm not really attracted to them. I know it's not wrong per se, but it's weird to climax to thoughts of being fucked by men and at the same time not be attracted to them.

I don't even really know what I'm trying to say here. I just wish I didn't have AGP. I was already messed up enough before this.

>>7132961
>used to be into masochistic fantasies and selfbondage
>tfw you get bored of that
>tfw imaging passionately kissing a loving husband gets you off better than BDSM stuff
I just want to be loved sob

also I've come to accept myself much better and dont feel like a massive pervert anymore which resulted in losing anxiety and that shameful excitement you get from agp/dressing

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>>7132934
>does it fall into my anime fantasy

Somewhat yeah. Although it's less like being freed to act a certain way and more like mental changes will happen to you at the subconscious level. You will notice them subtly at first, and then gradually the changes will start to become your personality entirely and you'll hardly be able to remember what you were like before HRT.

Granted, HRT affects everyone differently, but this is what happened to me:
>cry when I get sad or feel lonely
>need emotional and physical affection more
>just more emotional in general
>meta attraction to men turned into full blown attraction
>more submissive
>more exhibitionist; want to be pretty
>don't feel violent urges when I get angry;instead want to backstab and manipulate

Probably missed some but that's what I can remember right now.

>>7134855
Just a month on I caught myself being far less agitated, less aggressive and less anxious as a result. On the downside I dont get as exited about stuff either.

I've always been emotional and emphatic to the point it disturbed me, so nothing changed about that.

>>7123557
ty for your reply when I read other people's experience I feel less like a freak

>>7134373
>I think one of the features of AGP fantasies that disturbs me the most is that I keep thinking about men even though I'm not really attracted to them. I know it's not wrong per se, but it's weird to climax to thoughts of being fucked by men and at the same time not be attracted to them.
>I don't even really know what I'm trying to say here. I just wish I didn't have AGP. I was already messed up enough before this.
Are you me?

>>7135202
since agp does not real it would be totally impossible to have similar symptoms and thoughts, so you are obviously one person samefagging from 50 different proxies

>>7133036
>I assume it was bad grades.
yeah basically

>>7135451
I stopped attending entirely and got expelled

>>7135498
>>7135451
this is a fear of mine

i don't want to fall for the tranny "get depressed and fail out of college" meme

>>7136326
Fuck me.

>>7136332
What's wrong?

>>7136355
I've stopped and started college so many times because of depression and I know I won't actually get a degree at this rate.

>>7136364
I'm sorry.

I'm currently trying to not experience that.

I just have days and sometimes multiple days where i lay in bed and cry and can't do anything.


I'm scared I'm gonna fail a class. I had a depressive episode and barely studied/prepared for a midterm and got an F on it, now my grade in the class is a 75%.

>>7136364
it doesn't matter
degrees are worth shit anymore

>>7136432
I'd rather have a degree than not have one.

>>7136444
i mean, ok as long as you're ok with it not ever paying off

>>7136450
Hopefully it will.

It scares me because I don't even like what I'm going to college for but I feel like I don't have options and I have no confidence that I could do anything.


>military isn't an option cuz tranny
>trades aren't option because tranny
>thought about nurse but no confidence so idk if i could do it

;_;

>>7134855
To be honest most of these changes sound more psychological than biological. You feel free to act differently etc.

>>7136431
Sorry to hear that. Are you getting any outside help with your depression?

>>7136529
Nope.


I've been thinking about it, but I'm nervous that I'll just go to some disinterested person and they'll go "here take these pills and fuck off".

Plus all the effort of doing it behind my parents backs and stuff, since I'm on their insurance.

>>7134855
>cry when I get sad or feel lonely

I haven't full-on cried for so many years. I wonder if HRT just doesn't affect me in this way or if something's wrong.

>>7136542
I urge you to try and get it, or to otherwise find someone to talk to. The problem is that laymen are far less likely to understand this condition of ours. I recall reading something about universities generally offering free counciling to their students but I also recall the consensus that the councilors are generally clueless when it comes to things like this.

>>7136562
People are different from one another. Not all women are prone to crying.

>>7136564
I go to a shitty community college so I don't think they have anything like that but I'll check. I hate to make excuses too but I'm taking the class I failed a midterm on online so I don't know if I would have done so bad if I had a teacher.

I'll probably be going to a nicer state college after this semester or one more but idk how I'll do. Being around people my age is too scary and I get jealous.

>>7123214
>27
>never been super masc, can grow spotty facial hair in the same areas as Hanzo from Overwatch but that's about it. Super broad shoulders and angular jaw though.
>maybe? I've been doing okay for the most part. I'll have occasional daydreams about myself as female, and some actual dreams like that, but I handle being male ok. It's just a fate that's befallen me, and I think no amount of longing to be cute will change that.

>buttons
>only A - absolutely
>only B - maybe, but I'd worry about losing part of myself since my sexuality is so tied up in AGP. The main reason I was able to get off the last time my girlfriend and I had sex was because I could hear the wet sounds as we went at it and imagined it was myself. The time before that, she gave me oral and I was thinking about a doujin where a guy became more female the more he had sex. Losing my AGP by being a fully cis male would be really uncharted territory, whereas pressing button A means it's still me, but my sexuality no longer revolves around a body I don't have.
>both - probably A.

Really, beyond sexuality, I think the main reason I daydream about being a girl is just because I feel like it would be liberating. I always sorta feel like no matter what I do, doing it as a man makes me a bit of a tryhard who tries to impress people, whereas if I was a girl, people would accept me doing the things I like to do as just me doing what I like to do. It's something that kinda runs the gamut from my interest in firearms to the clothes I wear. Almost all of my clothes are drab, subdued colors, and every now and then I'll buy something bright and cheerful before realizing it's just another simple shirt that I look dumb in and then it's back to subdued colors and simple designs. The way I see it, girls are allowed to experiment and tinker and have interests, whereas guys are expected to serve society as the expendable, living tools we are, and any "experimentation" is indicative of a critical character flaw.

>>7136461
This is exactly how I was feeling and now I'm dropped out working a shitty part time job idk what to do

>tfw feeling feels because I'm in one of my good periods where I'm fine with being me and the fact that I'm feeling fine makes me think I might not be trans and that makes me sad
I'm...metasad???

So I've been been trying to figure out what's going on for the last month or two, I figured you guys might be able to tell me.

>21 years old twink
>used to fantasize about passing as a female
>CD for the first time last month and love it
>do it again last weekend dressed as a witch
>spend yesterday shopping for girls' clothing, a purse, leggings, makeup, wigs
>go out again last night with the whole ensemble
>get mistaken for a girl a few times...
>love it when that happens
>not trans, i love my dick
>want to roughly fuck women while otherwise passing like a girl

basically i want to live most of my life as a guy but i get a lot of enjoyment out of dressing as a qt girl . i'm almost exclusively attracted to females and I dont feel the desire to get fucked by dudes when dressed up, but fucking a girl as a girl would be hot af

>>7137875
also - i have seriously considered getting on mones to look more feminine. having real boobies would be great. however I want to be able to seamlessly go between man-passing and woman-passing.

>>7137875
You can be a man who wears "women's" clothing, makeup and wigs. Nothing wrong with that. Even if gender is not entirely a social construct which sex gets to wear which clothes et cetera sure as hell is. I'd advise against taking hormones if you don't want to live as a woman full time.

>>7137875
They way you said:
>not trans, i love my dick
with them together like that implies you think you can't be trans if you like your dick. That's not true, and in fact it's very common for trans people to be comfortable (at least somewhat) with their natural genitalia.

Not to dismiss you saying you're not trans or anything, but if that's how you meant it, and especially if you'd think you might actually be trans if it weren't for that, then it's worth taking note of.

>>7137989
Not that person but how can one experience gender dysphoria without disliking their genitals?

>>7138003
Wow bigot gender has nothing to do with sex

>>7137989
Interesting point. I guess what I really meant is that I don't experience any dysphoria really. I like being a qt boy and it's also really fun to be a qt girl. Although, last night at the club, I wasn't really trying to pass as a girl. i talked in my normal voice and whatnot. i would definitely be interested in working on my female voice though.

it's still something that i'm figuring out. as far as gender identity goes, i think of myself as a male but not a man, if that makes sense. i pretty much feel like i was born in the right body with the right sex. but i don't really identify so much with masculinity.

How lgbt are these threads anyway?

>>7138031
pls no bully. nobody else wants us

>>7138047
You ladies and gentlemen and ladies who dress like gentlemen and gentlemen who dress like ladies better not be cishets.

>>7138003
You don't have to hate everything about your body to have gender dysphoria. It would be absurd to think that a person wouldn't be trans if they, for example, identify as a girl, and feel cripplingly depressed and disgusted by their masculine jaw/shoulders/hands/voice/hair/etc. and by being thought of as a man, and would feel much better if they transitioned, just because they didn't hate their genitals on top of all that. To say they don't experience gender dysphoria at all as opposed to just not being "really" trans is vastly less defensible.

But really, it doesn't matter how; the point is that it's how things are in reality. People do have very serious gender dysphoria without genital dysphoria. For some reason it seems to be a common area to be lacking dysphoria over, though there's no hard data on it so it's just my perception. Perhaps partly it's that way because genitals can be hidden and don't affect your ability to pass in the same way as other features, and because of the way it's easier to think of yourself as "a girl with a penis" than as "a girl with a skeleton that makes them look just like a man" (even though both clearly mark you as male).

>>7138031
Considering that half the posts here are about people considering the relationship between their AGP and their at least potentially present transsexualism, I'd say very. Regardless, AGP is relevant enough to be talked about on an LGBT board. There are many more tangential threads that stay up.

>>7138026
Nothing? Isn't dysphoria alleviated partially by changing your body so that it is closer to a typical body of the sex opposite to your natal one? I'm sorry if I've offended you but I'm genuinely asking.

>>7138031
Very given the amount of transsexuals here and the history of the term, though we sometimes get an influx of people who aren't gender discordant.

>>7138059
I see. Thank you for educating me.

>>7136461

I was thinking about nursing again, and the military too in a little less depth. I heard the US military is accepting trannies now, but someone said that's only for people who are done with transition or who don't know they're trans when they join. If they would accept me, at least there's pay, housing, and GI bill benefits. But like I said, nursing is the thing I've thought the most about. $60k a year starting, it seems, for two years of school. I was originally thinking of paying for my real studies with that, after using it to pay for FFS. But then it's kind of retarded and it just makes more sense to go for what I really want to study, even if I take on debt. Just delay FFS until after a four year degree. But I know I won't be able to keep a good GPA for four years and I don't know what to study. So that takes me back to nursing until I figure it out. But the nursing program at my local community college requires a 2.5 cumulative GPA to apply and my GPA there was fucked after Winter 2016. I also lost financial aid as a result. So I would have to attend a different community college to start over and suffer the tuition rate increase for being out-of-county. On the plus side, I think I would be able to get financial aid again.

>>7138375
I looked into nursing just because my mom is a nurse and I like the schedule she works. It seems really nice to be able to work 3 12hour shifts and then work a half shift or pick up more or less work as you want. Plus she'd be able to sort of help me if I have trouble with something. My dad is also a nurse and works at a prison and he always has trouble finding nurses to work in the prison so that would be a guaranteed job if I couldn't get on at a hospital, but in my area at least nursing is super in demand so being an lpn/rn is a guaranteed job and you make decent money.
Plus it seems like nursing has a lot of good advancement.
You can go from rn -> bsn -> practicioner/nurse anesthesiologist/etc.
My GPA isn't bad or anything I guess and I'd probably just take loans out with the idea I'd pass nursing school.

I'm socially awkward and so I'm worried about that. I have no self confidence, self-esteem, etc. It makes me nervous.

>ywn be a girl with a boyfriend
>ywn watch tv together on the couch
>ywn lie on top of him, the back of your head gently resting on his chest
>ywn squirm a little, and notice a bulge on his pants growing
>ywn giggle and tease him by rubbing your butt even more on his groin
>hwn start nibbling on your ear and whisper what he'll do to you if you don't stop
>ywn stop for a moment, pretending to not want it, then start grinding against him and moaning to get him going
Why must this arouse me? Why can't I have a normal sexuality?

>>7131781
I've never tried any drugs, alcohol makes it easier for me to cry/not try to avoid thinking how I feel so that doesn't work. I don't play many games and eating sucks. I wish I didn't have to eat.
So mostly all I can do is try not to think, which is what I always do.
Thank you for responsing.

>>7138003
if you had to look like buck angel or sarina valentina, which would you pick and which would cause you the most distress?

>>7139313
why will that never happen?

>>7139400
Funny, sometimes I blame my drug abuse on agp

I also used to blame the agp on the way I was raised...talking to people on these threads has shown me I was probably wrong about both of those things

>>7140508
lol is that even a choice? being a masc bald man with no dick is like the worst of both worlds (sorry FtMs)
and I dont even like how Sarina looks, pure product of cosmetic surgery, she looked so much better when she was knows as Alexis

>>7141160
well 2bh i guess i could have picked bailey jay but i thought of the two sort of most extreme polarizations of trannies with their natal genitalia, trying to illustrate how it really might end up relatively trivial

>>7141154
>blame my drug abuse on agp
If you used drugs to cope with agp or distress caused by, it is not unreasonable

>>7140508
Jesus christ, I'd take Sarina in a heartbeat. As nice as it would be to have a vagina, being a bald man with facial hair is probably the single most disgusting thing I can think of being, and being an actual man with a vagina would basically be AGP but even worse.

At least if I looked like Sarina, I'd be feminine in day-to-day life and could always get bottom surgery later.

>>7141154
>>7141206
I spend my weekends smoking just to escape agp and other issues. Its really easy to hide behind a good high

>>7141466
It really eases the suffering of depression and I'm tempted to get some... But last year I spent entire autumn smoking almost every evening and just playing games and indulging into sexy fantasies. It only made my agp worse, it felt like dissociative identity disorder at times. I had some breakdowns and started to question if I was trans (and how I ended here)

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>tfw too old to ever not be disgusting

>>7132903
Hi I'm the anon you replied to.

I've been thinking more about this condition and maybe I am trans but there's so much to think about and it's too scary to pursue. How do people have the courage to transition? I'm really sensitive and impressionable, especially around family, like I'm imagining myself telling my parents and what their reaction would be (they'd probably explode with shock and ask where this idea came from and tell me I'm normal) in order to try convincing myself not to pursue this. If I'm not sure myself, how could I argue my case to family? I would endure repression if I have to for my family's wellbeing. I would tell myself "it's just a fetish; plenty of guys probably have it but they're too busy with normie activities to explore it. Don't ruin your life and others' over this." Well I've been depressed since puberty so maybe this is already ruining my life. When the AGP first began I thought everyone would rather be a girl but I didn't think anything could be done about it so everyone just dealt with it in secret. I already have my hands full with other problems and my family is really overwhelmed too. I'm the kind of person who sacrifices themselves to make it easy for others. I couldn't live with myself by doing something that causes my family such stress. If I weren't this kind of person I would really be in a good position to transition but I'm still so scared of this, what if it's just a perverted delusion. What if I can ignore this and be happy as a guy with just AGP. I want to be a father with kids who love me, take them fishing, to the park, teach them sports, all that normie stuff. It's not often but sometimes I get really pumped up and feel like a man. But the words used to describe my personality mostly fall in the feminine category and I'm still young now so I can get away with expressing these qualities but I hate that men are seen as weak numale cucks for it. I feel like I'm losing myself by trying to get away from that.

>>7141512
Mine got a lot worse too after I started indulging my AGP fantasies and began reading about it.

Although I appreciate the fact that there is a thread like this where you can discuss this sometimes I feel like coming here and reading about other people who feel the same makes it even worse in a way because it makes me obsess over it. Still I'd rather have something like this than feel like I'm the only one that has these thoughts.

>>7141605
The reason people transition changes depending on who you ask.
For some people it's life or death.
For others the thought of living the rest of their life as their assigned gender scares them enough to take that step.
Everyone really is different, and you really should talk to a therapist.
Repressing these thoughts is extremely unhealthy.

>>7141605
>How do people have the courage to transition?

In my case, I had found out that my health was failing due to a genetic disorder I have. This same genetic disorder also gave me a hormonal imbalance which made me fairly feminine looking and short. Also, I was a huge social outcast at the time I decided to transition.

In other words, I had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

>What if I can ignore this and be happy as a guy with AGP
Would you really want to do that though?

>>7141605
Lol sorry for crazy wall of text. Is it this hard for everyone to think about? It's instinctively arousing to think about but then in reality it's so frightening and there's so much to consider.

Also what is the case with people outside the trans community invalidating their existence by mentioning chromosomes? How do you respond to that? I can see why people feel threatened by trannies because the feminization of men scares them for the future like this is happening as a result of some conspiracy. But the way I feel is I just want to be able to genuinely express myself and I've tried repressing this part of me forever and gotten nowhere. I took the bsri test months ago and scored 35/80/60 I feel good about myself by behaving "feminine" but I didn't even think of myself as feminine and ever since I became aware of all this hate toward weak beta numale cucks online everything has gotten worse as I'm scared to be myself and it's only going to get worse as I age. I'm not dysphoric about being a guy though but then again I'm not manly. I just don't want to be a meme I want to be an individual and I don't really blame people who are creeped out by weak men who reject masculinity because it is creepy but it's who I am and I don't see any other treatment for this. OMG I don't want my life to flash by and find my reflection to be that of an old creepy cross dresser before I know it, there has to be a way for me to find peace.

>>7141657
Can i just repress until the singularity / technology can make us who we want to be is that viable

>>7141696
you will just end up like me at 25 when you either crack and be unpassable or suicide

>>7141657
Thanks but I've never been to therapy before because I'm dependent on my parents. Rejecting these thoughts was the only option I thought I had. I used to think transsexuals always knew who they were from birth and never had any questions about it.

>>7141661
This is how I am too I'm a social outcast now, but even before when I wasn't it, I was only afraid to be myself around my family and now they're all I have, so what I'm saying is I think there are pros and cons to doing this as a social outcast.

>Would you really want to do that though?
I don't know what my options are. It seems like every course of action is so drastic. My family never takes me seriously. Even with the problems that I've opened up about they still see me as a normie I think. If I won't have their support I'm all on own then.

>>7141605
Sorry but you're me, actually more AGP than me, and I'm decently trans. I wrote my AGP off at the onset of puberty as a fetish. I don't crossdress. I just want what females want out of a relationship. I've always used the word relationship and lemme tell ya it hits cis male ears wrong. I've always felt rather emasculated and shy and what I think is great about a lady even cis girls don't understand. So I don't crossdress right? But I fekken love bras. I'm ashamed to say it, but I've cum a few times just thinking of times when I passed by them hanging on racks. I wonder if breast pump masturbatory foreplay is trans. I don't think most cis males desire to lactate. Sorry I know I'm rambling a bit. But my point with the bras was AGP might get worse as you masculinize. At 23 my voice just got slightly deeper, and sometimes on my inflections it sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

>>7141657
But therapists are scary... I just want to die but it would be too painful. I feel bad that most of my decisions are made out of shame or fear. Plus having to vocalize my inner turmoil just makes me shaky and anxious. And I'm afraid my future therapist would just hand me ssri's first for depression. Those scare me much more than hrt. I feel like they would force me to 'start at the bottom' and besides gatekeeping wouldn't take me seriously because I didn't 'know' my fucking whole life. First question my GP asked. Also I don't fetishize going full time. Being called a male doesn't bother me but being gendered female makes me feel emasculated. I don't know if this is because I know I'm ugly or just sociatially conditioned to feel that way or really just dysmorphic or other disease, and that scares me too. But I must be trans because I feeel covered in filth disgusting. And I avoid mirrors and enjoy typically female perspective in romantic relationships.

>>7141605
I think it comes down to this:
can you see yourself leading a happy life as a man? How likely is that outcome? Can you see yourself leading a happy life as a transwoman? How likely is that outcome? You only get one shot at this thing called life. You have to make it count. Do not give of yourself until there is no self left. You deserve to live too. Make your decisions in pursuit of the life you desire.

>>7141676
>I'm not dysphoric about being a guy though but then again I'm not manly.
If this is truly the case and you just feel bad about being a feminine guy then therapy seems like a better path than transitioning. Most of the behavior we see as feminine or masculine is just culturally indoctrinated. There are some neurological differences between men and women but they're largely very subtle and do not account for more than a tiny fraction of all behavior we see as gendered. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a man who behaves in a "feminine" manner. Society, of course, does not see it that way but you're going to be butting heads with it anyhow so at this point you just have to choose the reason.
Just make sure that you're not deceiving yourself and that this is what you want.

>weak men who reject masculinity
Is it the trait of the weak to reject the morals society tries to impose upon them and substitute them with their own? Nietzsche once spoke of a kind of individual who does just that rather highly..

>What is the case with people outside the trans community invalidating their existence by mentioning chromosomes? How do you respond to that?
Being a certain sex is about more than having a certain set of chromosomes, as evidenced by individuals of those sexes who have sex atypical chromosomes.

>>7141709
>tfw not that person but 25 and in eternal repression mode because can't pass

>>7141733
Thank you for the insights. You don't have to apologize for rambling to me lol, I'm writing novellas here. It helps to get my thoughts down and people keep saying how they relate so it helps. I can actually lactate if I squeeze my nipple for a few seconds but only a tiny bit of milk comes out. I don't have gyno though. Now that I think of it a normal guy would probably be really freaked out by this. When it first happened I can remember pretending to myself to be scared but secretly enjoying it and now I do it every day to reaffirm my femininity. I'd be disappointed if it stopped. This sounds so weird writing it out :/ I'm not on any meds either. I wouldn't want gyno though because I swim and that would be embarrassing being shirtless outside private. Actually walking around shirtless in public was a huge step in overcoming social anxiety for me. I became very scared of being shirtless during puberty and avoided it even around family. Now I can finally go to the beach, kayaking, water parks, without fear of being shirtless. I don't know how I'd do these things if I were to transition . But if I were presenting as a girl obviously I'd love boobs and I'm aroused now thinking of doing those things as a girl in a bikini. :s

>>7141819
Wow you've introduced valuable insight here. Thank you. I think I'm running out of space and need to make a new post for this also I'm posting slowly while I think about all the questions you've raised.

>>7141676
>>How do people have the courage to transition?
Good question. I dont have it, I cant transition for social reasons (besides being too old). Sometimes I want to run away to another country, but I cant leave my family like that and not like I have resources to do that either.
I can live as a 'man' personally its not that bad for me, I gave up pretending to be manly and trying to fit this enforced role. I dont want to look or act like one. I might off myself as I get older anyway, but for now I'll manage being a non-manly man.

As for yourself - only you know whats best for you.
But fuck gender stereotypes and all the identity politics from all sides
>hurrr betacuck numale
>hurr toxic masculinity
>hurrr you are a man you must do this and obey these rules
>hurrr you are bad cause you are a man
>hurr you are bad cause you are not man enough
fuck all of them
this bullshit is always used to berate and manipulate people

god, I've been off antiandrogens I start to get mad over trivial stuff again

>>7141605
you don't
you just do it because you're going to kill yourself if you keep turning into an old man

Ok, I'm AGP on HRT.

No I'm not a redpiller, but I came across this post on /r/theredpill and I identify with a lot of what this post says:
https://np.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5a27sp/attraction_and_desire_what_i_learned_from_taking/

I think:
>Desire takes place at an emotional level. Internalise this. You want to bring a girl into an emotional state where her mind shuts down, slips away, and feelings are what is left. This is where her desire lies. Intellect and rationality actually just overcomplicate something quite simple. Most women, on a biological level, want to submit to men.

somewhat sums up my own experience of sexuality, especially after starting HRT, and I am wondering if this is an expression of AGP and if so has anyone else experienced this, or something similar.

Sorry for the confusing post, mucho tired :(

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>>7141937
>tfw you cant read it rationally cause it gets you aroused
>and dysphoric

I'll try later, but thank you for the link

>>7141937
is he trying to imply that male desire is somehow oh so rational and pure

>>7141937
And yeah you get more subby and less competitive with no T, but there is much more to it
there is abundance of subby men and women who want to control everything yet later have 10 times less T.
Dont see what it has to do with AGP. Just being subby is not AGP.

>>7141937
I suspect that red pill of theirs is just a neurotoxin. That someone likes being submissive in bed does not mean that they like being submissive in their daily lives, or that you should treat them as if they are lesser. People are so much more than their sexuality.

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>tfw obsessed with trans shit, have agp but still don't think I'm trans
Anybody else know this feel? Just like browsing timelines for the past 6 years.
God help me...

>>7141138
Because I'm not a woman and can't ever be.

>>7141819
It's me >>7141886

>Being a certain sex is about more than having a certain set of chromosomes, as evidenced by individuals of those sexes who have sex atypical chromosomes
OK I admit I don't know anything about chromosomes or genetics but the difference between people with atypical chromosomes and transpeople would be that they are still cis if they accept the gender they were raised as right? This just bothers me because I don't want to feel like I'm trying to cheat nature here. I want to be able to express myself, my genuine self. Can I trust the instinctive sexual response I get to AGP as a genuine indicator of my feelings of gender? It's amazing how I would get randomly aroused by things when it hadn't even occurred to me what was actually happening was AGP. It's actually pretty disturbing to me and if transitioning were to make it stop that would be nice.

>>weak...
sorry for coming off that way. What I meant was it's society's view of us being weak. I can't describe how deep my respect is for those with the strength it takes to deal with this effectively. It's so much easier to compensate with something like a napoleon syndrome and be rewarded for it by society for displaying gender typical traits, despite the individual fighting inner turmoil.

>>7142002
You can get really really close to being one though, in most every way that matters, and find someone who likes you for who you are.

>>7132961
I seem to have skipped the disgusting sissy shit and gone straight to those fantasies.

>>7141819
Sorry I can't help writing so much with so much to say and I'm on my phone so it's slow :/ 4chan needs to let us post bigger comments

>If this is truly the case and you just feel bad about being a feminine guy then therapy seems like a better path than transitioning.
It seems I'm in real need of therapy. It's amazing how while repressing I can distance myself so much that I feel like I could just ignore all the feelings I've shared here and close the thread and go on living in denial, that's the easy path that is so tempting but scares me to think of what would happen when I start aging and crack. And this issue really has been only getting stronger like everyone says it does as my sexual orientation is even much different than it was one or two years ago, and my desire to be feminine is only growing. I used to be exclusively interested in women, then liking guys sometimes in fantasies, and now I'm crushing on guys in real life, and I'm getting feelings of jealousy when I see attractive women instead of feelings of desire. Maybe this is the result of finally exploring my repressed feelings. Just earlier this year I had the urge to try gay tinder but I couldn't bring myself to chat with them, with feelings best described as being an impostor unworthy of their time. I loved when they complimented me even though I didn't feel any spark with those whom the compliments were coming from.

Continued, I got carried away and at this point I doubt anyone's gonna be reading this but I already wrote it

>>7142014
>>7141819

I don't know what confidence I have in living the rest of my life as a guy. I feel like it's the only option. I really want to have a loving family one day, and that's a self motivated desire, but I don't know if that will ever come to be. I haven't even had a job yet but I applied for one for the first time a couple weeks ago, it was a competitive opportunity and I got an interview but they questioned whether I had the strength and energy for the position. They could see how small I am. I think I would've gotten the job otherwise and wouldn't be a NEET anymore after so long, so it hurts to be turned down for probably that reason. They didn't say that was why but that must've been it. It's an example of failing to meet the expectations of a man and I think it would only be worse being like this as I grow older. It feels like I'd have to change my body to live as a normal man, while repressing these feelings why bother while there are others who are cursed with manly bodies who still go through with transition for the sake of their own well being.

In any case I'm gonna start expressing more of my femininity in the meantime. I've been over compensating with masculinity and people still see me as feminine so what's the point.

>>7142006
unless you are old and unpassable

>>7142003
>OK I admit I don't know anything about chromosomes or genetics but the difference between people with atypical chromosomes and transpeople would be that they are still cis if they accept the gender they were raised as right? This just bothers me because I don't want to feel like I'm trying to cheat nature here.

What if they're born partially intersexed? Is someone who looks like, sounds like and lives as a woman not a woman because she was born with a penis? Ought other people treat her differently because of that? If not, are transwomen that different? If you essentially function in the same way as a woman in your daily life in just about every way that matters is there a reason not to treat you as one, other than malice? Make no mistake: in this world we live in some won't accept you just as some won't accept the intersexed woman as a woman. Being different is not easy. Caving before your oppressors is not the path to happiness though.

>Can I trust the instinctive sexual response I get to AGP as a genuine indicator of my feelings of gender?
Absolutely not! AGP alone is not an indicator of transsexuality. It is something that sometimes shows up alongside it and sometimes obscures it. Gender dysphoria and a persistent, burning need to make your body fit what you feel your mind is are.

>I want to be able to express myself, my genuine self.
Well, to do that you must first figure out what said self is.

>>7142014
>>7142016
>Continued, I got carried away and at this point I doubt anyone's gonna be reading this but I already wrote it
I read everything. No need to apologize. I'm glad to hear that you've accepted the need for therapy. I understand if you can't do this on the spot but do try to directly answer the questions posed, at least to yourself.

>>7141910
>As for yourself - only you know whats best for you.
>But fuck gender stereotypes and all the identity politics from all sides
TRUE. I wish I realized this sooner :( I was falling for this meme, trying to do what society thought was right for me instead of what I thought was best for myself, until I noticed it only made my life get worse. I started to become a person I didn't like.

I get mad at it too but I just read some old journal I wrote at 14 with some entries on these topics, and I saw my real personality before being exposed to these gender stereotype politics and such. I feel like back then I was a better person, wiser, more honest and expressive of my individuality. Being able to write what I wrote without any education on the matter. Just raw profound creativity. Sometimes being "educated" just puts up a wall between how we feel and how we think and how we act. My thoughts and actions back then were based on my unique experiences instead of just reciting things I read from others that I considered to be the correct view. I realized people respect those who respect themselves first and foremost, so pretending to be someone else for respect will never work . If you listen to those masculinity memes they'll have you believe a man cannot be respected unless he looks and acts a certain way, and has a certain reputation.

I hope I'm staying on topic here :s I don't know about others but for me this is closely related to the stress I feel being a guy because of the societal pressures on how I should act and if I were a passing woman I wouldn't have those pressures. My first step now is to stop over compensating with masculinity and to express myself no matter how feminine it's construed and I will see firsthand how society responds or if it's all just blown out of proportion or made up by insecure guys on the Internet to feel better about their own fragile masculinity

>>7141937
the most interesting part is that he de-transitioned

>>7142090
Don't worry. I find your posts interesting. Let me second
>fuck gender stereotypes
This is why I'm increasingly convinced that being trans is primarily about desiring a certain sort of body/hormonal balance, as well as being recognized as having it.

>>7141910
Well being beta/cuck/numale can have negative connotations beyond being non masculine. It can also refer to non masculine types who get exploited and abused because of their non masculinity.

>>7141937
Saw this on r/gendercritical and the ladies there were all reeeeeeee! I'd love to see r/theredpill and r/gendercritical meet irl.

>>7142225
>I'd love to see r/theredpill and r/gendercritical meet irl.
So that they're so busy fighting one another that they leave us alone?

>tfw thought my agp was just a vanilla trap fetish until it was too late then
>tfw thought my trannyness was just a creepy agp fetish until it was too late

>>7142096
Seems like he just started to repress it. Notice how he says he would have been "normal" if he was exposed to more masucline things growing up. Also, he's posting on a reddit all about hypermasculinity. He's yo-yoing between two extremes.

He's either going to relapse and transition again or kill himself down the line. Maybe.

>>7142025
I'm really only interested in how to stand against the chromosomal argument because I feel like the case people make with it is that intentionally diverting away from your genetics could be viewed as denying your nature, which is exactly the opposite of my intentions. My main motive for this is to be able to genuinely express myself. I feel that repressing these feminine feelings is a diversion away from who I am, denying my nature, but in the same way, by transitioning others would see me as denying my masculine nature, because my genetics point to male. So the question is, is it possible to genuinely express myself as a man? Or as one anon put it >>7141819
>can you see yourself leading a happier life as a man or as a transwoman?
My view is that what makes someone happy is being accepted for who they are. Everything else is dependent on that sense of belonging. Any accomplishment or other source of pleasure derived from fulfilling a purpose only generates happiness if you believe what you've done is meaningful. I can't be happy being accepted for someone I'm not and I can't be happy being rejected for being myself. In other words, I can't be happy as a man who represses AGP and I can't be happy as a transwoman who doesn't pass. So my options then would be to find a way to actively express my feminine behavior while presenting passively as a man without rejection, or to transition so that I can actively express my feminine behavior with a passive feminine presentation that matches, so the active and passive expression of myself is in harmony. I'd like to remain hopeful that I can express my femininity as a man and still be accepted for it without having to transition but my fear is that it just keeps getting worse and I'm breaking so many social codes at some point that I'll look back and regret not just transitioning sooner. That's a fear though. I'll take things one day at a time while being mindful of not repressing this anymore.

>>7142025
And I wanted to offer my views to the interesting questions you raised asking on what grounds someone should be rejected. I believe everyone's opinions are valid, but a society does need rules to function so not anyone can decide to be the opposite sex whenever they please, and expect to be accepted for it by strangers. I'd say the main thing it depends on, even above physically passing, is the purity of their intentions, and by that I mean, what are their reasons for feeling the need to present as the opposite sex?

In the intersex person's case they know no other life, in her mind being a woman with a penis might be how she thinks everyone else is too, and she was given no other option, so her masculine genitals and genetics aren't what's influencing her decision to live as a woman. It would be cruel to force her to live as a man only to stay true to her masculine genetics, even if she were fully masculine genetically and only appeared to be feminine. I think this is a real condition and those afflicted are almost identical to genetic females but with nonfunctional reproductive systems.

But in my case I was born a boy, raised a boy, yet feel distressed by becoming manly and aroused by thinking of myself as a woman. It's obviously a different scenario and it disturbs me more than anyone. I've repressed these feelings for so long so I can have an idea of the thought process an ordinary person would have. "It's just a fetish; it's from exposure to too much porn; you just need to man up; you're too weak to handle manhood; you just need a girlfriend who makes you feel good being manly" etc. These are the sorts of things I tell myself while repressing but I've realized none of them are accurate. Every transwoman knows how much easier it is to just "man up" than to transition, and face social ostracization if you don't pass, and to give up a normal life even if you do. But convincing that to the rest of society is another story.

>>7143225
>He's either going to relapse and transition again

Hmm. It would be interesting to know that person experience. Did he write more posts about why and what he went through?
I've read a bit of people who went on and off, but those who stop completely usually do it earlier - in less ~6 months when the changes start to get really significant. It becomes clear to them that they dont want to turn into female mentally or physically.
On the other hand those who spent a year+ and go full-time mode but then detransition for any reason (be it social or personal) tend to get on HRT again and later highly regret ever stopping.

For AGPs in particular I've read people (not here) who went moderate HRT and went sort of femboy-mode not socially transitioning since they want feminization but not becoming a woman and been living like that for as long as 3 years.

>>7143510
>I'm really only interested in how to stand against the chromosomal argument
Sex chromosomes don't do shit other than determining your gonads, basically. Sexual development is controlled by hormones. Look into total androgen insensitivity syndrome in XY individuals (the tl;dr is you can be XY and still be completely phenotypically female apart from lacking ovaries, because your androgen receptors don't respond to testosterone). Beyond that, one's identity is not determined by their sex chromosomes unless they internalise the idea that it should be; it's definitely possible to genuinely identify as a gender which is inconsistent with one's chromosomal sex.

>intentionally diverting away from your genetics could be viewed as denying your nature
Your nature makes you want to be female so much you're considering going to extreme lengths to approximate it, and are seriously impaired by not doing so. To repress that because of things that don't matter (sex chromosomes, other people's expectations, etc.) goes much more "against your nature" than fixing what you perceive as wrong with your body and making yourself feel better. That is unless your nature is to agonise over whether you're a real girl and never admit it, in which case I don't see why you'd want to stay true to it.

>>7142142
I only accepted being trans when I realized I would get great comfort from not having waves of testosterone clouding my mind, and that the hormone balance alone would be worth it. Hard to describe I know, but male impulses can cause SE me distress, especially the need to approach strange women.

>>7142006
>find someone who likes you for who you are.
And that's the problem. I will always know that they deserve better, that they deserve an actual girl and I can never fulfill that role.
Some times, the substitution isn't good enough. Some times you need to pay full pay and not get the cheap knockoff.

>>7144835
Why must you speak the truth? I must be narcissistic because I love and hate my female nature. I believe I have large amounts of internalized transphobia. Will this abate if I start hrt or is some mental reconditioning required?

>>7145162
Going on HRT won't magically make it go away, but it will definitely give you information which will help you figure things out, and affect your emotional state in a way that's hopefully positive (reduced anxiety is a common result). This kind of thing is really hard to get over; you just have to recognise your doubts and reservations as mostly irrational and allow yourself to pursue the best option anyway (even if you're pushing through doubt the whole time). You will probably need to undertake conscious effort towards addressing your internalised transphobia too, but you can still definitely push yourself through it while you're working on it, and it will get better on its own in some ways.

I guess since you have "femboys" on HRT in denial about the fact they're probably trans despite admitting that they'd prefer to just be female, so you can have transphobes who are on HRT and happier for it despite the cognitive dissonance it requires.

I'm dysphoric and AGP, and on HRT, and I'm still constantly telling myself how disgusting I am for feeling this way and how I'm not a real girl and don't deserve to be. But, I still know that beyond the gloss of shame and insecurity, going on HRT is actually one of the best things that has ever happened to me, and I would be even more of a crippled wreck of a person without it (and getting worse rather than getting better). So I stay on HRT and let things improve. In my case, my self-hatred is inversely proportional to my ability to pass. If everyone perceived me as a girl and my body was right, then there'd be no reason for the shame, since for all practical purposes I'd just be a normal girl, and could confidently declare anyone who says otherwise wrong. If I don't pass though, then I feel bad because I honestly feel like with the people who don't think of me as a "real" girl have a point.

A lot of these kinds of feelings are manifestations of dysphoria as well as social pressure (or they blend together).

>>7144835
Thank you! I'm amazed by your level of clarity. I was thinking of that condition before. There's really no way to detect someone's actual sex then, at least not without a lab test or whatever, but I digress. The point is that gender really is whatever someone feels it to be and, as you said, the rest doesn't matter. It makes sense to me now. You have a beautiful understanding of the matter that makes such simple sense.

>>7145162
I really relate with you...it's hard not to have internalized transphobia in our society

>>7142282

Mainly cuz it'd be a trainwreck and much lolz would be had.

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If you make a new thread link it here please.

>>7145475
You should watch a footage of radfems attacking pickupers meetup, I woldn't call it funny, some people there are legit insane.

>>7142025
>she was born with a penis
Then "she" isn't a woman.

>>7147153
>kill "yourself" my man

>>7147153
Then what is she, given that she otherwise has a woman's body? The answer is certainly not a He since she has vastly more in common with women than with men. The answer is, of course, non-binary but our society insists on dividing people into two groups for many practical purposes so the only choice is to choose the closest match.

>>7147170
>>7147170
>>7147170

new thread

>>7147168
>Then what is she, given that she otherwise has a woman's body?
But he doesn't. He has a dick.

>>7147261
>I don't know anything about intersexuals