/agpg/ - AGP General

>>7147170
Okay okay I gotta ask
>Thoughts and feelings / emotions
What's the difference between feelings and emotions? Why list both of them?

>>7147170
OP is this basically a less humiliation-motivated Sissy Kiss type of thing?
See http://sissykiss.com/ for additional context (warning NWS)
See https://thefpl.us/episode/63 for a pretty hilarious podcast about the above

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>>7147153
THIS
finally some fuckin sanity on these boards

>>7147235
I mean honestly why does anyone even care? The girls out here are fretting over what label they fit under and in the mean time I'm smoking weed AND paying my bills.

>>7147168

So trans are medically induced intersex or literally non-binary, point this out to sjw types and its reeeeee.

>>7147178
idk senpai I'm just copying the OP someone else wrote up before I think it's fine so I leave it as is.

>>7147190
personally I find sissy stuff very gross and sometimes just hilarious in how absurd it is but I think some people that come to this thread like it. like I do feel aroused sometimes when seeing myself as feminine but I don't like thinking of myself as completely that I still dislike my masculine characteristics (dysphoria maybe I guess) and am not changing them just for sex stuff. this writing probably made like 0 sense but for me no it is not about humiliation or sissy.

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>>7147170
>for once OP pic doesn't have a pretty girl's face in it that makes me wanna die
>see this ad at the bottom of the thread
GOOKMOOT
YAMEROOOO

>>7147282
So what's the odd trick?

>>7147282
gookmoot is the fucking worst
i bet he doesn't even want to be a girl

>>7147271
Society forces us to register our gender on a constant basis. Even our language forces us to refer to people with a he or a she. Under this paradigm the reasonable thing to do is to accept not-quite-but-close-enough individuals under one of the gender umbrellas. In the future, when we are not quite so hung up on gender, intersex and transgender individuals might be able to proudly stand on their own feet as their own groups because the infrastructure, both physical and cultural, will advance to the point where they can do so. Until then we need to do what we can to help people who don't fit into the boxes to function in the world as it is.

>medically induced intersex or literally non-binary
Hormones and surgery certainly induce further changes but keep in mind that it has been found that the brains of some pre-everything transsexuals already displayed some intersex traits in their structure.

>>7147290
>i bet he doesn't even want to be a girl
jesus what a degenerate

>>7147292
>In the future, when we are not quite so hung up on gender,
Or maybe it will decrease the amount of transsexuals as they don't feel forced to take hormones to be allowed to act "un-manly".

>>7147190
AGP is not exactly sissy fetish (aka masochistic emasculation fetish) since it's centered around feminization and not humiliation, but there is some overlapping since feminization is typically shamed in boys, thus it develops into something repressed but arousing and people may come through the phase of forced feminization fantasies. I hope that made sense.

>>7147343
I honestly think that transsexuality is primarily about being uncomfortable with your body and hormonal balance, not gender roles. People feel the need to have a body typical to their non-natal sex, see society tell them that people with that kind of body act and think in a certain way, and are indoctrinated into thinking that they need to do the same. When you feel that you're a woman and are told that women act *this* way you're just as prone to being brainwashed as cis women.

Gender roles are conditioned. Transsexuality, as far as I can tell, is inborn.

>>7147271
I dont even see the point of arguing, there is genotype/phenotype and primary/secondary characteristics. And all the mental gymnastics about "gender does not real" thats gone too far.

>tfw starting to fantasize about what it would be like to have vagina
>getting really aroused at the thought

It's getting worse. Just kill me now.

>>7147357
>People feel the need to have a body typical to their non-natal sex, see society tell them that people with that kind of body act and think in a certain way, and are indoctrinated into thinking that they need to do the same
Read my post again. In your future you would not be told "this is how girls act". As such you wouldn't think "I have to transition because I act like society says girls do, so I have to transition to be 'me'"

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>>7147357
then why do I want a body and face of a girl but dont mind living as a man

>>7147402
Transtrenders and hippy dippy parents ""forcing"" their kids to be trans are not the ones transitioning despite what pol repeats ad nauseum

>>7147407
kek I know that feel.
Ever since I decided to confront my AGP i've realised that I'm extremely envious and also very vain.
Could that be the reason why you want to look female? You have to admit that females have much more beautiful skin.

>>7147402
You're not wrong but what I disagree with you about is that this is the primary motivation behind transitioning. I think it is the other way around. You primaly desire to have a certain body, are told that people who have that body behave a certain way and so conform to those expectations. Without the pressure to conform the desire to have a body that fits your conception of yourself is still there. You're just free of the pressure to conform to stereotypes of what it means to be a woman when it comes to behavior.

>>7147407
Uh.. didn't I just explain why? Because that's the core of being trans, with the social side being conditioned. Biology doesn't understand the social side. Biology understands hormones and your shape. Those are its demands.

>>7145455
>I'm amazed by your level of clarity.
It's funny you should say that since I've been posting/believing this kind of thing for years (while having serious dysphoria), and yet only started on HRT recently. Again, it's cognitive dissonance; the same kind that lets you observe and even consciously acknowledge obvious symptoms of dysphoria or AGP, and yet do nothing about them or be unable to make the step to knowing you're trans or AGP.

I'm glad I could help, anyway.

I think in a lot of cases when people use sex chromosomes as a be-all-end-all decider of what someone,s "real" or "natural" gender/sex should be, it's based on misunderstanding of the science, or they're latching on to a nominally objective way to determine something which is inherently subjective (in the case of gender) and open to a broad range of definitions (in both the case of sex and the case of gender).

>>7147261
Clearly genitals can't be the way you determine someone's pronouns (or "social gender" or whatever you want to say that doesn't imply that it's just how you refer to them and not what gender you perceive/treat them as). How many people have you assigned a gender to without seeing their genitals? In almost all cases you're assuming what their are genitals based on their secondary sexual characteristics and proclaimed identity, not deriving anything from the genitals. I can only assume you're just looking for an excuse, since you're making an exception just for trans people.

There are so many valid ways you can define sex (in a scientific sense, not just some sort of "every identity is valid" SJW sense); why are genitals so important to you?

I agree with >>7147168 completely.

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>>7147420
I'm narcissistic yeah, I've been a pretty child. I want to be a pretty girl, I want everyone to like me. But I wouldn't be an attention whore, Id totally be low key nerdy girl if I realistically think about it (outside of horny times when you want to be a hot bimbo)

Maybe that played a part too, but not the main, I always hated getting masc. Just shaving my body made me feel so much better without anyone knowing (and actually no one ever ridiculed my body hair so its not social)

>>7147432
But transGenders want to socially transition equally, its crucial for them, I dont care about that and dont like gender roles in general, I'm not trans.

Curious about hormonal side, I mean testosterone is fun, but lowering it feels so chill and I enjoy crying over silly things instead of getting angry and wanting to smash a wall.

>>7147517
>But transGenders want to socially transition equally, its crucial for them, I dont care about that and dont like gender roles in general, I'm not trans.
I have no proof but I feel that this is the result of social pressure; that the underlying issue is one of the body and biochemistry. My reasoning is that transsexuality seems to be largely inborn and societal conceptions regarding what it means to be a certain sex are anything but. You might be trans in the purest sense of the word, free of the socialized bullshit.

>>7147517
>But transGenders want to socially transition equally, its crucial for them, I dont care about that and dont like gender roles in general, I'm not trans.
It's not crucial for everybody. You don't have to have every possible symptom to be considered to have gender dysphoria, just like you don't for any disease. In many cases the body dysphoria is the main factor motivating transition; and it's not rare for social dysphoria to be non-existent or negligible.

Also worth noting is that being "trans" is more of an identity than a diagnosis. Gender dysphoria is what is actually being measured and treated; if you technically weren't trans (for whatever reason that could be) but still had gender dysphoria and transitioning helps improve that, then obviously you should still transition. For many practical purposes being trans and having gender dysphoria are the same thing.

>>7147357
>primarily about being uncomfortable with your body and hormonal balance,
While I think you're right about the first part (to an extent, you can't forget femboys)… do you have any proof for your claim of transsexualism being caused by a hormonal imbalance? How will you prove that hypothesis?
And if it's caused by a hormonal imbalance, could it be cured by increased testosterone?

>>7147540
>While I think you're right about the first part (to an extent, you can't forget femboys)… do you have any proof for your claim of transsexualism being caused by a hormonal imbalance?
I have no rigorous evidence. Just many anecdotes from individuals who reported feeling a great deal of relief after just a few weeks on HRT. Doctors traditionally ascribe this to the patient feeling better about making progress toward becoming who they'd like to be. I find that suspect since many of those people report feeling better while on hormones even after taking them for a few years with no obvious physical results. If you're closeted, completely unpassable and still feel better on hormones after spending a long time taking them and seeing no results then perhaps something is up. I can't pretend that I know this as a fact though. It is a thought I pieced together from many different accounts. Facts are hard to find when it comes to this condition.

Part of the reason why I think it is compelling is that trans issues tend to pop up extremely early in most individuals and said individuals lead extremely divergent lives so I'm forced to suspect that they are innate, akin to homosexuality. Transsexuality being innate implies that it cannot have much to do with gender roles and the like because those are socialized. As such we're left with things the body can detect, such as its own biochemistry and shape. No one disputes feeling that you need to be of a shape typical to your non-natal sex is part of transsexuality so the big question is whether hormones also play a part in relieving dysphoria beyond reshaping the body.

>How will you prove that hypothesis?
I don't think I can do so. I hope someone does a study on it. Until then I can only speculate.

>And if it's caused by a hormonal imbalance, could it be cured by increased testosterone?
IIRC some Australian doctor tried this in the past with no success. Besides, a simple imbalance would be detected in blood tests.

>>7147540
They didn't say that transsexualism is caused by hormonal imbalance, they said that it involves being uncomfortable with your hormonal balance. Evidence for that would be that being on HRT even without any physical changes makes trans people feel better (whether MtF or FtM). While this can be put down to a lot of things (placebo effect, comfort just from knowing you're on it, etc.), it is not unreasonable to suppose that adjusting the balance of chemicals which are known to impact your mental state might relieve some gender dysphoria. When you combine this with the hypothesis that trans people have intersexed brain structures which are more similar to those of the sex they wish to transition towards, it makes even more sense, since (and I know this is unscientific; my knowledge is clearly lacking here) the brain will "expect" those hormone levels.

It would be basically impossible to get willing test subjects to dose with cross-ex hormones so you can monitor whether they feel any better. It would also be very hard to distinguish feelings caused directly by the hormones from feelings caused by the physical changes they induce.

>>7147534
>transsexuality seems to be largely inborn and societal conceptions regarding what it means to be a certain sex are anything but
Makes sense. I'd guess that 'true-trans' identify so much with women from early age that they pick on all the social aspects as well thats why social transitioning is important for them. While for others it could be more like body dysmorphic disorder or like someone said 'autoandrophobia' (femboys) and develops later in life thus having less connection to social gender and lack of such strong need to pass.

>>7147537
But what about gender being primarily (not entirely of course) social construct, I know its arguing semantics but its 'gender dysphoria' and 'transgender' instead of 'transsexual' (which was more commonly used years ago).
There was a semi-joke thread offering a choice of looking like a woman but being socially treated as a man or vice versa, and funny enough they said people who'd settle for the first are AGP.
And I've read experiences of adult AGPs who were on HRT for significant time but didnt feel the need transition, not for the reason that they were unpassable but cause they were comfortable with male identity.

>>7147540
It's believed that transsexualism being caused by a hormonal imbalance in the womb (prenatal exposure).

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>>7147517
>But transGenders want to socially transition equally, its crucial for them, I dont care about that and dont like gender roles in general, I'm not trans.

>>7147399
How bout I zuck ya dick
And then cut it off

>>7147432
>You primaly desire to have a certain body, are told that people who have that body behave a certain way and so conform to those expectations.
I can't say I agree with that. You make it sound like transsexuals want to appear feminine and are forced to act feminine, if I'm reading this right.

>>7147347
Can you have a MEF and be trans?

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>>7147752
I love the "some alternative gender". I'll probably laugh together with doc.

>>7148207
Maybe if repressed. Typically you know you want to be a girl, you want none of the masculinity, concept of emasculation just doesn't make sense.
But if you got conditioned to think that its all wrong and try to 'man up' and get over your true nature these fantasies can be a way to let go and resolve the inner conflict.

>>7148207
I don't necessarily see why they have to be mutually exclusive
I mean, I think basically just read the criteria >>7147752

do you have gender dysphoria? Then you're trans, end of story, even if you don't end up transitioning

>>7148316
I'm not attracted to the male part, only the emasculatuon part.

>>7148344
I feel I have dsyphoria but often I get aroused thinking about transitioning/doing things as a female version of myself which makes me second guess the validity of being trans

>>7148384
>I feel I have dsyphoria but often I get aroused thinking about transitioning/doing things as a female version of myself which makes me second guess the validity of being trans
see >>7147170
>>I'm AGP, does this mean I'm not trans?
>No, you can be AGP and trans.

>>7148316
>I love the "some alternative gender". I'll probably laugh together with doc.
It helps with the types that have most symptoms of classical TS but see themselves as some third gender/agender, the phrasing is awkward but believe me the addition was very needed

>>7148412
I know, my original question was about MEF not AGP. I realize my later post was more related to agp though for which I apologize.

>>7148438
in which case I will refer you back to >>7148344
>do you have gender dysphoria? Then you're trans, end of story, even if you don't end up transitioning

>>7148190
Having a certain body is not just or even primarily about appearance, but about how you feel in it. About feeling comfortable with yourself.

Forced isn't the world I'd use. Cis people are similarily indoctrinated into buying into their society's ideas about gender and aspiring toward what said values state is "good" for members of their gender.

Transsexuals, then, feel the primal need to have a body that matches what they feel their gender is. The rest follows from what the culture they grew up in told them members of that gender are/ought be like.

>>7148432
If you have a desire to be some alternative fantasy gender that exists only in your imagination you might need some alternative treatment.

how do i get the courage to buy hormones


why am i such a fag ;_;

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>>7149255

>>7149255
>>7149831
>Not posting the superior asiatic clam harvester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

>>7149255
Start small, I couldn't bring myself to start full hrt but the femboy route was more manageable for me

>>7149845
[spoiler]also how many of you are fellow /agdg/ posters I can't be the only one right?[/spoiler]

>>7149855
I'm disillusioned ex-pro

>>7149255
>get drunk
>say you're just gonna try it and see how it goes and you can stop any time

>>7150566
Neat. Worked on anything worthwhile?

>>7151296
what if u want to quit after it nukes your balls

>>7152709
it doesn't do that though

>>7148432
I mean technically if you're trans and have a male body but a female brain then you're both genders hence third gender fits.

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>>7152709
You will slowly recover. You can save sperm if fertility is your concern. Or you can take bica, it doesn't shut them down.
Not much will happen in first months, there is nothing to be afraid of if you doze properly and don't have liver problems (if you do, then there are injections) and mind the diet if on Spiro.

>>7152527
No, trash, moblie shovelware and some outsource for the likes of EA.

>>7150566
Brianna W.?

>porn addiction
>go to uni therapy session #1
>talk about porn addiction
>asks 'what aren't you getting from your porn fantasies'
>think about it
>therapy session #2
>admit to cross-dressing
>realize porn is a way of coping
>know that I want to have feminine-ish fashion but not trans
>realize I won't be able to kick my porn addiction unless I cross dress more

Was literally muttering 'bollocks' all the way home.

>tfw terrified i will get in a coma or something and now wake up 5 years later with testosterone coursing through my veins

>>7152989
Bummer. I'd post what I'm working on but am afraid of outing my public persona on the tiny off chance my game gains any traction.

>>7153089
>Was literally muttering 'bollocks' all the way home.
Are you British or just very cute?

>>7147598
Thanks for your posts! I enjoyed reading them.

Some more anecdotal stuff for your private research: After I started HRT, my sleep improved greatly. I didn't even know that the "weird dreams" I had were actually nightmares or pretty close to them most of the time. My unpleasant dreams which I thought of as normal went away after one or two weeks. Until today - I'm still on HRT - and I sleep like a baby. My life is easier now, too, and I enjoy it more. But this was definietly not the case after the first weeks and even months on HRT, yet the sleep improvement was already there.

>" Doctors traditionally ascribe this to the patient feeling better about making progress toward becoming who they'd like to be. I find that suspect since many of those people report feeling better while on hormones even after taking them for a few years with no obvious physical results."
Most people differentiate between body and mind very strictly (thank you, Descartes). In my opinion that is not always the best idea. A fundamental change in the hormonal balance of a person has to effect the state of mind directly. In other words: It's impossible to change hormonal balance drastically without at least some noticeable mood changes.´
I'd be unethical, but sometimes I wonder what would happen, if hormone replacement was done for a cis person (without their knowledge, so we'd know that they wouldn't just feel bad, because they are freaking out).

>"Facts are hard to find when it comes to this condition."
True. I learned a lot of transsexuality here on /lgbt/ and was very happy to be able to relate to others very quickly since my own experiences are more often than not very similar.

>>7153242
I'm glad someone found them useful. Thank you for sharing. More information is always helpful.

>Most people differentiate between body and mind very strictly (thank you, Descartes). In my opinion that is not always the best idea. A fundamental change in the hormonal balance of a person has to effect the state of mind directly. In other words: It's impossible to change hormonal balance drastically without at least some noticeable mood changes.
Agreed.

>>7153199

Sounds like a nightmare. Now imagine you were a cute, prepubescent 12 year old who enjoyed dressing up and taking pictures of yourself then waking up from that same 5 year coma a 17 year old bearded man with a voice you don't even recognize.

>>7153242
>wonder what would happen, if hormone replacement was done for a cis person

no need to wonder, women take hormonal pills all the time and of course it affects their mood and mindstate

you could find clinical tests results of different hormonal meds, maybe even on the affect of estrogen on men

>>7153325
i already lived that nightmare

>>7153325
and still haven't woken up

>>7153326
Just look into steroid use for that information. There are loads of forums. Ask /fraud/ over on /fit/.

>>7153242
I don't see how it would be any more unethical than any of the other potentially dangerous human testing programs that go on
it's not like they kidnap people off the streets

>>7153199
>have a note in the pocket
>in case of coma, do HRT
>wake up as cute girl

or you might not wake up...

>>7153358
>get them to induce a coma while doing HRT
>instruct them to wake me if I'm passable in 5 years or pull the plug if I'm not
sign me up famm

>>7147170
>have naturally more feminine body type
>have been confused for as a girl several times, usually when i'm happier
>would only have to shave and lose a few pounds to become 7/10 trap, maybe more.
>have extreme humiliation fetish and wish for it to end, as well as intense AGP and "sissy" fetish.
>simultaneously have incredibly masculine ideals, wishing that I'd be able to get rid of this side of me and start fixing myself up as an actual man.

Feelsbadman.jpg.

Basically, I'm asking what I should do?
If I pretty much succumb to my desires, it'd be much more hedonistic, but easier. Yet, I have no idea how I could possibly change into, like, someone Chad himself respects as an equal. I don't know if I'd necessarily be happier with the second option, but I think it'd be a more fulfilling lifestyle.

>>7153222
British.

>>7153411
I'm dealing with the exact same struggle senpai.

Do I potentially fuck up my future career by acting out this need I have or do I suffer on my own where no one can see?

I'm thinking it'll be something along the lines of small milestones.

>paint nails
>grow hair out but not too long
>eyeliner
>maybe lipstick
>light make-up

Keep this shit tasteful instead of going fill joker hon.

I dunno.

>>7153411
a*p has a progressive course. there's a story i hear fairly often from older agp hons -- they looked pretty damn feminine as young men, but went repressionmode because they wanted to be chad's equal instead. come middle age when the dysphoria made them want to blow their brains out, they weren't pretty boys anymore.
take that as you will.
>>7153422
good luck my transvestic friend
please note your definition of tasteful will change over time to accomodate what you require to be less dysphoric
you may find yourself doing things you never dreamed of, like crossdressing without being passable -- after all, wearing lipstick isn't conceivable or tasteful to the average man either

>>7153325
>>7153340
>>7153343
I want to go back to sleep.

>>7153447
What do you think I should I do, man?
I want to become a man that my grandfather, a man who has never stopped working, even now, would be proud to have raised by himself. I want to become a man that has inspired many to be like. Have a normal, white family who in turn have white children.

>but i also wanna be a qt femboy that is praised with headpats and chad's cock

Should I repress it until 30 and kill myself or what?

>>7153411
>Basically, I'm asking what I should do?
You know, you still haven't said whether you want to be a man or a woman.

>>7153487
That's the entire problem, Anon.
I don't.

>>7153493
*don't know.

>>7153493
That's step one, then. What is it that you desire and why is that so? Note that I am not asking you what you desire to desire, though answering that would be useful in a different fahsion.

>>7153477
you can try every day of your life to be the man that would make your grandfather proud, but from what you're saying here it would just end in misery
nobody wins when you repress
how old are you now? even if you think you're old by the standards of this board, you're almost certainly objectively young. you can transition into a woman, depending on passability possibly never tell anyone about your past, and have a very fulfilling life. hedonistic, yes, but that's not a synonym for unfulfilling.
having your dysphoria etiology be agp unfortunately doesn't portend super well for future assimilation even after controlling for age of transition, but consistently even the worst hons are far better off psychologically as women than men. why do you think they transition? they're genuinely infinitely happier that way. even the ones who lose everything and get almost nothing in return get enough peace of mind for it to be forever worth it.
you're never going to get what you want, but you just might get what you need.

>>7153510
I know you mean well but I think you're rushing the diagnosis here. We haven't really heard enough to guess whether they are genuinely gender discordant or just confused by their sexuality.

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Sorry for the noob question, I still don't really understand what agp means as an mtf.
Am I agp for being happy that my body is taking on a more feminine appearance?
My bf has been encouraging me to fem up more and I've come a long way in the last couple months.
No before pic on my phone but here's my stomach.
To be clear, I don't get off on looking feminine, but I'm aroused by the changes in the sense that I know my bf will find me more physically desirable

>>7153517
you make a decent point, generalizing a variety of cases to one anon can be inaccurate
otoh their story is pretty straight up the story of every a*p who progresses to transition, just at an earlier stage in the process
i still don't have enough data on whether encouraging a*ps who haven't fully progressed to transition is a good idea or not but for now i'm working under the assumption that the suffering certainly prevented by it (fewer hons) will outweight the suffering potentially caused by it (some might regret, though a*p detransers are fairly likely to later retrans)

>>7153530
>To be clear, I don't get off on looking feminine, but I'm aroused by the changes in the sense that I know my bf will find me more physically desirable
you are not agp
that's a common experience of both cis women and csts trans women
it has been intentionally mistaken for agp in the past (see that one worse-than-blanchard research paper that claimed 90% of cis women were agp) but it is a different phenomenon entirely

>>7153508
>>7153510
>>7153517
Yeah, I'm young enough to transition, which I believe is related to my sexuality confusion and what not. I'm bisexual (I prefer calling it bi, but it's just pan.), that's indisputable. But, I don't truly know what I want to be.

I'm unsure of what I desire, really.
I think I have two competing desires or ideals, but when it comes down to it, it stems from my inner narcissism to be praised and well liked.
I'm going to cut the memes and what not from here on out.

>>7153411
>>7153422
keep up the status quo and then wake up one day at 25 and see an old man in the mirror and then shoot yourself

>>7153557
I'm >>7153411, not >>7153422.
Does it still apply?

>>7153552
>young enough to transition
>doesn't specify age
underage
mods
>I think I have two competing desires or ideals, but when it comes down to it, it stems from my inner narcissism to be praised and well liked
understandable
i suspect a whole lot of people, cis or trans, can relate to that statement
as a woman you would be praised more but receive lower praise, and i wonder if your confusion?/denial? stems from wanting specifically the high praise afforded to men -- even though everything you've said implies you would be a terrible candidate for going down the life path that pursues it

>>7153530
>To be clear, I don't get off on looking feminine, but I'm aroused by the changes in the sense that I know my bf will find me more physically desirable
Being aroused by the thought of arousing your partner is very much normal for cis women. I wouldn't call this AGP.

>Sorry for the noob question, I still don't really understand what agp means as an mtf.
No need to apologize. The thread's purpose is to answer such questions.
Self-directed arousal at your own femininity, physical or otherwise. Note that AGP tends to die out after you spend some time living as a woman so while it is surprisingly common among people who haven't started transitioning or are just taking their first steps it becomes fairly rare at later stages.

Again, as your arousal is not primarily self-directed but is contextualized with your boyfriend in mind I don't think it qualifies.

>>7153411
>impressing the Chads who make me insecure is more important than my own personal desires in life
And yet you want to be some kind of alphabro right?

The moment you lose the sense that you have to prove yourself to people who don't give a fuck about you, the better.

>>7153568
that's why i replied to both..

>>7153579
>Being aroused by the thought of arousing your partner is very much normal for cis women.

Is it not normal for men?
Different anon, but that's important to me.

>>7153552
I know this is going to sound a bit tangential but bear with me: do you believe that men and women are fundamentally very different when it comes to behavior? What part does culture play in this? What is the source of gender roles?

>>7153592
The funny thing is that I can't say because I don't know shit about men despite supposedly being one.

>>7153576
Nah, I'm 19. I meant to write write it down, haha. I'm unsure of what you meant at the end there.


>>7153581
I'll keep that in mind.


>>7153586
I'm an idiot.

>>7153603
My "belief" is that it's biological. I don't mean to offend anyone here by that statement.

>>7153629
not sure what end bit you're referring to, but:
1. generally, men exist at the extremes and women the centre. women get adored for tiny things and on the whole are more praised than men, but are (even more socially than biologically, though i agree with you that biology is a major factor in gender roles) prohibited from high achievement. men are forced to sink or swim, but if they swim they get a whole lot of respect.
2. you don't sound, from what you're saying, like the kind who can swim. but you want to be, because you desire the higher levels of respect that comes from being a man who swims rather than a woman who does basically anything meaningful at all and sometimes doesn't. this is spurring you into repressionmode, which will likely screw you over in the long run.

>>7153629
>My "belief" is that it's biological. I don't mean to offend anyone here by that statement.
I asked, didn't I? No offense taken. I would like you to go into some more detail though.

>>7153652
Oh, I see what you meant.
>>7153669
I'd rather not get into this debate at the moment. I won't be able to express my points properly.

>>7153682
Fair enough. I guess I'll reveal my hand: I think you're torn between the desire to achieve certain things in this world and be honored for them and the desire to be at peace with how you look and feel because you believe that you must choose one or the other. The point I wanted to make is this: you can still be you, and achieve great things, as a woman. Masculinity and femininity, as ideals, are both poisoned chalices. Greatness is not found in either. Your gender is a backdrop to your actions, not their dictator. You don't need to become a certain gender in order to play the roles associated with that gender.

>>7153477
you arent allowed to do this under NWO, enjoy xenoestrogens and become a sissy, sorry

sounds like too much shit messed with your head, hope you can figure it out and live a life you are happy with and dont stress over what others think is right or wrong

>>7153358
>wake up as cute girl
>or you might not wake up...
I'd just settle for the second option at this point, my life and mental health are kill regardless

>>7153743
>my life and mental health are kill regardless
Mending is better than ending.

>>7153325
Thank you for giving me something to haunt my dreams forever anon.

>>7153774
Im like that dog with learned helplessness

So what celebrities do you think have AGP?

Obvious answer is Eddie Izzard.

>>7153876
Dog is just God backwards. Face your reflection. Ascend.

>>7154276
>Eddie Izzard
I'm not familiar with him. What makes you say that?

My answer is Lana and Lilly Wachowski, but I think that should also be fairly obvious.

>>7147399
Yep don't go there, you'll need to get your dick chopped off

>>7154705
it's more like inverted and rearranged than chopped off

>>7154705
*upgraded

>>7154276
Grayson Perry has talked about having it.

>>7155167
>Grayson Perry
>ultimate hon

Jesus christ

>>7154768
Does it even feel like anything? Its not the real thing anyway.
Where da transplants?!

>>7154429
>God
...so, just a make-believe, same as my silly dreams of ever being a girl. I have to put them down and at best try to learn to live instead of escaping into sex fantasies.

>Face your reflection
>aging long face, beard, receding hairline
Face the reality. Say out loud MAN AND PROUD!
What a simple but genius idea. Every time I ever feel like AGP is coming back I just need to look in the mirror to kill it. I'm cured!

>>7153581
Word Of God

>>7152989
Ok so how does someone save sperm at a decent price. I was looking into sperm banks and they are expensive as fuck

Im a cis lesbian girl, I think I have some form of AAP, since very young Ive always felt aroused by the thought of being a very muscly guy with a huge dick, Ive often had dream where I was a bulky guy having sex with random females, also I used to draw guys with huge penises to turn myself on, imagining I had their body. I still have these fantaisies in my dreams from time to time, and I simply never felt bad about it.
Though, lately Ive started wondering if I was trans, because I feel like life would actually be better as a male, and Im shocked at how all of you guys think being a female = getting male sexual attention and not doing shit and just being a vain human, because these are the reason why I feel like my life is going to suck, you call that a "proviledge" but it is definitely the opposite, I want to be treated like a person, I want to be admired for what I do, not for my tits, it feels more and more like youve got to have shit aspirations to be a female, is it really what you guys think?

>>7156134
4chan is full of very sexist individuals. This thread is no different. I don't agree with the idea that being a certain sex is about conforming to gender stereotypes.

>lately Ive started wondering if I was trans, because I feel like life would actually be better as a male
How do you feel about your body?

>>7153530
>the choker
Everytime
Also you have a cute tummy.
Also basketball is shit.

>>7156222
Not that person but that choker looks nice desu.

>>7156227
I admit that it does, but what is with them, they always have them on.

>>7156134
Gross generalization created largely by media that fallows the rule "sex sells" (because it does).

>>7156029

1. get some dry ice from the gas station
2. freeze sperm
3. realize you shouldn't reproduce if you can't afford to do it right.

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>>7156134

"the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"

you will never have a huge functioning penis.
deal with it.

>>7156264
Why did you decide to immediately try to hurt that person? Show some baseline humanity.

>>7156227
It makes you look like a 13 year old girl and not in the good way

>>7155479
They've already done stem cell vaginas in trannies, trying to find the paper again
It's just that people delude themselves into thinking that somehow the current techniques and dilating forever to prevent it from closing up (i-i-it doesn't close up!! But don't forget to dilate or you will "lose depth") are an acceptable (and even great!) quality

>>7156333
>It makes you look like a 13 year old girl and not in the good way
I'll freely admit to having no taste.

[spoiler]Trips witnessed.[/spoiler]

>>7156297

I'm guessing they were offended by what that AFAB wrote.

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>>7156297

Sorry.
I wasn't trying to hurt anyone.
I'm a gay guy.
I am skinny fat and have an average size penis.
I've always wanted a huge one and muscles.
I identified with the post.
It has taken me years to accept that I'm never going to look like a porn star.
I thought that it would help to state bluntly that it isn't going to happen.
We need to accept ourselves as we are.
Why are you jumping on me when this board is full of people calling each other "hon" and telling them to kill themselves?
Jesus. Relax already.

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>>7147752
6

>>7156384

Have you tried a penis pump? Not recommending it, just asking if you've ever tried one.

>>7156385

You think the sixth criterion is ridiculous?

>>7156134
no not at all
the first part you described something I would say is pretty similar to what I feel (but the opposite ofc)

I really have no idea what you're talking about at the end, yes I want sexual attraction from men but I've also always felt very uncomfortable in relationships/sex as a guy. I seriously have no idea what you're talking about with the "not doing shit and just being a vain human", or just not having aspirations. starting to come around the idea of transitioning has actually given me reasons TO have ambition and aspirations and go back to school

personally I'm pretty sure my life would become much more difficult if I transition and that skating by as a guy would be much easier...but I know I will regret it

do you really think that males don't treat/think of women as people...?

>>7156029
do you really want to be a child's father-mother?

I wanted to freeze mine too until I started thinking about that

>>7156384
>Why are you jumping on me when this board is full of people calling each other "hon" and telling them to kill themselves?
Because I'd like to make this thread, this little corner of the hellscape, better. Don't you think that this is a nice dream? I could use your help.

That person might have been looking for genuine help, which they are unlikely to get elsewhere. Immediately insulting them in a thread where they are not sure they are welcome in might drive them away for good, and that would be a shame.

>Sorry
It is nice of you to apologize. I appreciate it.

>>7156402
I think they're implying that they exhibit all 6 indicators.

who here /likes sports/ a lot and feels maybe a little weird to transition because of it?

I know they're obviously not related but its such a stereotypically male thing

>>7156134
>>7156405
i'm the psychoanalyst anon who was giving advice starting at >>7153447 and made some comments about the difference in ease between male and female lives
for what it's worth, i'm ftm and transitioned young (15)
i didn't experience much/any female privilege pre-transition because of a) my very young age and b) the fact i was a severely autistic butch lesbian who did not know how to talk to girls and was unappealing to guys
i did, however, note a loss of privilege with transition
i'm still working on figuring out how generalizable my experiences are because as a csts i fit a lot more neatly in the male gender role than the female one and so i can't untangle 'life is better as a guy' with the moderation of dysphoria, more positive mental state, and easier socialization that comes with transition
but the conclusion i have come to from seeing the lives of men and women and applying the less strange parts of my experience to it is that women live on easy mode -- everything is set up to succeed for them, but as a result they don't get the full game and experience some drawbacks as an 'easy mode penalty'. only men can play the full game, but good fucking luck making it through. women tend to have extremely little/no awareness that their lives are easier than those of men, though, and assume the restrictions and drawbacks they experience are 'male privilege' when they're really reflections of the opposite -- sort of the inverse of how feminists think everything bad that happens to men is a 'patriarchy backfire' (up to and including shit like the duluth model that was started by feminists...)

>>7156470
You were raised as a man. It is pretty natural for you to pick up some interests that men are encouraged to like.

>>7156470

I had a dean at my last high school who was really into her football team. She was a really nice middle class white woman too. She was really sensitive to hurting other people's feelings. As an example, a classmate of mine was talking to her, and the dean said she found a sociology professor my classmate would have a lot in common with. My classmate pretended to get upset and said, "Oh, because we're both from Compton?" And the dean started profusely apologizing; my classmate said it was like she was going to cry. You wouldn't think she was masculine at all.

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>>7156402
>>7156441
I refuse to believe any of them but #6 happens to me a lot

>>7156200
Ive always felt comfortable with my body, I have no issues with it, Im a bit jelly about males because they get to have cool muscles and all but I think I can get over this, which is paradoxical because Ive been wondering for quite a long time now, because I do feel like I
want to be a male but I also like my body.
>>7156264
REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>7156402
I meant (right after reading the whole thread) that I didnt understand how you guys could think that the perks of being a female was the attention you would get in general, which is obviously not a positvie one because there is only a sexual purpose behind all of that, this will never replace the respect that is given to a succesful man.
Not that men dont think women as people but that they seem to think that women have vain aspirations in life.
I dont wake up and go like " alright so today im gonna look hot and get all that attention from horny males because this is how I value myself" that is unfair.

>>7156541
Well if it's primarily about muscles you're in luck, because with hard work and female roids you can have solidly male musculature
As for the dick, that's more difficult. It will be a while before they can do it, but unless you're quite old now it's likely to happen within your lifetime

>>7156541
>Ive always felt comfortable with my body, I have no issues with it, Im a bit jelly about males because they get to have cool muscles and all but I think I can get over this, which is paradoxical because Ive been wondering for quite a long time now, because I do feel like I want to be a male but I also like my body.
Would you be fine with living as you are if society treated you as it would treat a man, allowing you to behave in the same fashion without shaming or hurting you, or is it important that others accept you as male?

>>7156586
Yeah I think it would be cool if I could be treated exactly like them without having to change my body, I feel a bit of an inferiority complex about being female for that matter, as if males were getting the good side of the society. (Im also really jelly about the attention they get from females)
When Im alone Im fine with everything I have. I probably dont really care about the "man" label in itself if it doesnt mean getting the advantages they get.

>>7156384
I forgive you anon.
I only creid a little.

>>7156629
I think you're rightfully upset that society empowers men to act in ways women are not allowed to and generally keeps women down, which causes you to envy men. Since you feel at home in your body and don't feel the need to be recognized as a man I don't think you're trans. You shouldn't transition just because you prefer the other gender's gender roles. A much better path to take is to help shatter the idea of said gender roles by rebelling against them. Costly, and easier said than done, but I think it'll leave you happier than conforming to them or transitioning so that you're "allowed" to act in the way you'd like to act. Try to find like-minded friends and stick to them. A community would be even better.

>>7156541
>>7156629
Also you can get into body building without transitioning. There's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is people taking issue with muscular women.

Okay so now that I know that I'm essentially aroused by an ideal girl I've concocted in my head that I both want to fuck but also want to be, how the hell am I supposed to balance this into something healthy I can explore without fucking up my life?

I will not ever transition. It's simply not going to happen. Cross-dressing I can do. Heavy cross-dressing in private -- sure. Light cross-dressing or a more androgynous look in general I can settle for.

But I really, really want to quit online porn and this sexual frustration really gets in the way.

>>7156737
I feel like this was exactly how I thought back then, Ive always thought that when Id grow up Id become a very masculine female, against gender norms but my ideal isnt to look like a "dyke". I have completely given up on being masculine in any way and thus fighting gender norms. But Ill definitely rethink it after this discussion.
Thanks a lot for your insight anon, you helped me I think, tho Im not out and dont want to be, so I think it will take me several more years to come to terms with my identity/sexuality.
>>7156751
I wish I could build muscles but I wont look like a beautiful female and I have to maximize the chances of looking good to any girl at that point

>>7156847
>Okay so now that I know that I'm essentially aroused by an ideal girl I've concocted in my head that I both want to fuck but also want to be, how the hell am I supposed to balance this into something healthy I can explore without fucking up my life?
Your libido and sexual fantasies can change slightly to a lot after being on HRT for a decent amount of time.

>I will not ever transition. It's simply not going to happen. Cross-dressing I can do. Heavy cross-dressing in private -- sure. Light cross-dressing or a more androgynous look in general I can settle for.
Repressing and living vicariously through
CDing or partners isn't going to make you feel any better. That hasn't worked for 95% of the people that tried, and it won't work for you either. You're going to wake up one day and wonder what the fuck you were thinking, but by then you'll probably be too far gone to transition.
This is how every single Hon you've ever seen gets into their predicament. LEARN from their mistakes, instead of trying to rationalize that you're some snowflake that isn't making the exact same one.

>But I really, really want to quit online porn and this sexual frustration really gets in the way.
Take an AA for month to lower your test and see if you still feel the same. That will be enough time to kill your libido, but not so much it can't come back, and will help cement your thoughts on whether or not you're truly comfortable not being who you claim to dream of being.
You don't have to present female or socially transition if you don't want to. Chest binders should take care of what, will most likely be, small-medium breast growth, or maybe more will be known about SERMs and such if you want to get more serious.
Also, if you're truly comfortable just being andro, then it shouldn't be a problem for you personally or socially to imagine living with a feminine body chest bound and dressed in masculine clothes.

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>want to kill myself because I'm not a girl
>don't want to order hormones because i won't pass and admitting to myself I'm a faggot makes me want to kill myself

is there any solution except kill myself ?

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>>7157060
I'm in your scenario and i'm trying to bulk up, dress better and start volunteering.
Also ordering cute clothes to use in private...

Wish me luck anon!

>>7157060
Embrace your faggotry now, you almost certainly will at some point in your life

I plan on not leaving boymode for quite some time and at least stopping further masculinization with hrt

>>7157156
I think I'd rather die than embrace it.

It's disgusting and it makes me not want to be alive. I'm less than human for being like this.

>>7157159
Whether or not you care about yourself and your sexuality, the people around you are devalued by your opinions as well. It would be kind of cruel if your friend came out and you told them they were less of a human for being that way.

>>7157060
>i won't pass
You know as well as I do this boards standards are fucking nuts and this doesn't apply to half the people saying this.
Unless you have a nose bridge you could land a jet on or a male model tier square chin you'll be fine once hormones do their thing, and maybe save up for FFS.

>>7157159
you know what happens to agp trans girls who are terrified of being 'faggots' and think transitioning will make them less than human, right? do you think hons just spring into existence fully formed?
also, you can't really make a good call pre-hrt on your future passability. break down your physical traits and analyze what about you is feminine or masculine (nobody is completely either). list at least 3 androgynous or feminine traits, if you don't think you have 3 you're delusional.

>>7154276
he's just a campy faggot

>>7157267
>you know what happens to agp trans girls who are terrified of being 'faggots' and think transitioning will make them less than human, right? do you think hons just spring into existence fully formed?
You realize most old hons who are also usually agp are into women not men and identify as trans lesbians hence are gay?

I don't think I've ever even met a straight old hon, only transbian and bi old hons.

>>7154276
Caitlyn Jenner

>>7157291
...do you really think people, especially older people, don't perceive trannies as hyperfaggots? sexual orientation doesn't factor into not wanting to be trans
>>7157295
if the board would've let me upload it i would've used a caitlyn picture for >>7157267

>>7157159
jeez I browse pol pretty often and I acknowledge I'm a crossdressing faggot degenerate but even I don't hate myself like that for it...suppression is pointless, I am who I am. It's not like I chose to want what I do

>>7147246
Cool story bro, but why should i care?

>>7153592
Depends on the guy. Lots of guys love it if their girlfriend finds them sexy, still others don't really care as long as they have a girl to begin with.

>>7156222
It was a gift from my bf and those are his shorts in that picture

>>7147420
no i think that just confirms you're really a man.

>>7156264
you sound like a bitter tranny.

>>7157526
so?

>>7154429
>>7156019
dog fo' drow?

Good idea, gonna smoke weed instead

>>7156498
>the restrictions and drawbacks they experience are 'male privilege' when they're really reflections of the opposite

could you elaborate? Do you have any essays or anything? very interested to here more given your perspective, even if you feel it is somewhat limited due to young transition

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>>7157533
drow a cute
CUTE

>>7157544
well, one thing that i think highlights the difference in difficuly level is employment, 'wage gaps', and the different responses to women seeking traditionally male employment vs the inverse. it's a known and accepted fact that women earn less than men, which feminists ascribe to sexism in employment. the obvious aspect they're overlooking is that men and women pursue different jobs; once this is introduced, the already low level of discussion generally devolves into people yelling about whether it's social or biological (social tends to yell louder). what gets overlooked is that there's more than one category of high-paying job that men pursue in greater numbers than women.
one is high-education high-technology high-socioeconomic-status careers, mostly 'stem'. the degree to which these are stratified varies -- they're all majority male, but some (like mathematicians, which rounds down to being evenly split) are barely so. on the other hand, some engineering subfields are over 90% male. but there is, and has been since before i was born, a huge push towards women in stem (and women doctors, women lawyers...). the gaps for all these jobs have narrowed greatly in the past few decades. in recent years, however, the increase of women in these fields has flatlined and is maintaining at its current pace, something feminists claim is a sign the push is dying down. given feminism is more prominent in the mainstream than ever before, i'm skeptical about this explanation.
the other group is lower-status trades that don't get mainstream social respect proportionate to their difficulty and pay. there's a slight recent push towards women in trades (i attended an all-girls school for a few years and saw a lot of pamphlets and brochures on the topic), but absolutely nothing that approaches a fraction of the push towards women in stem.
[continued]

>>7157771
not only are girls and women on average uninterested in pursuing a career in the trades, they generally have a far more negative perception of those jobs than men do. many men have a healthy respect for 'tradies', but the positive connotations women ascribe to them are generally in a fetishistic context ('muscular hunks'/'real manly men'). thinking about the jobs themselves, wome generally perceive careers in the trades as dirty, dangerous, and difficult. very few want to enter those fields.
on the other hand, the most strongly female-dominated jobs tend to be low to medium pay and require relatively little education. there are marked exceptions (like psychologists and librarians -- though i wouldn't say either career path is 'hard' in the way a stem or trade field is, and i say this as someone who was really encouraged to be a librarian around my preteen years and still is now by my dad), but generally when you think of pink-collar employment you think of things like nurses, waitresses, hairdressers...and, of course, child care workers and teachers. the education for those varies from high school to bachelor's (but generally can be pulled off with a certificate or associate's), pay is mediocre, schedules are short or flexible, and even the exceptions i noted are very people-orientated careers.
men entering people-orientated careers, ESPECIALLY child-orientated careers, get a lot of suspicion placed upon them. this can be potentially career-ruining for the child-orientated ones. every time i've heard of a man working with young children, he eventually left that path because he couldn't deal with the discrimination from parents and employers.
now, do women who pursue higher-paying traditionally masculine work face problems? yes. far less problems for the women in stem than the women in trades, for reasons that are mostly unrelated to gender and are another discussion entirely (read: socioeconomic factors).
[continued]

>>7157794
but, in my opinion, the issues they face are not misogyny, they're the increase in difficulty. especially in the trades, these issues are generally the result of a corporate culture that develops in 'male culture' and has no real equivalent in 'female culture'. 'men insult as compliments, women compliment as insults' isn't a joke, and women tend to be sensitive to perceived social hostility in a way that men aren't. to the men she's working with, a woman responding negatively 'can't take a joke' and 'doesn't understand our culture'. to the woman herself, she's being severely emotionally attacked and may well come to the conclusion she's experiencing misogyny or lacking 'male privilege'.
in these more difficult environments she's unused to, it's not strange at all that someone might come to the conclusion she's being discriminated against for the one thing that makes her stand out in that environment. but she isn't in reality -- it's just the conclusion she drew from the circumstantial evidence. she just wasn't prepared for the sudden increase in difficulty from entering a small slice of 'male culture'.
so women mostly don't pursue difficult paths, staying in easier fields that are thus lower-paying and coming to the conclusion it's misogyny that pink-collar jobs pay lower. when they do pursue difficult paths, they mistake the difficulty THEY experience for sexism as opposed to realizing it's part and parcel of the experience.

>>7157771
>>7157794
>>7157807
Thanks senpai

idk really why i'm posting this here, it's not really agp. but i guess i just have nowhere else to post it and i feel like i can relate to you all better

idk what to do with myself. i've been on hormones for about a year at this point and the pain of not being a girl is as strong as ever. i know i'm not one though. i'm not even that feminine in personality or anything. i guess i don't even think i have a personality, i don't know. i've missed the boat trying to be normal so i'll never be passable, and even if i was i'd somehow have to learn to fake a female personality. but being a dude is such a drag. and pretty much everything else is a drag too. i'll be alone forever. i can't deal with being a wageslave
but i don't really feel like killing myself because i get panic attacks of death, and it seems more a lateral move anyway, just without the low probability of a soma invention where i can live in my dreams 24/7
what do

>tfw you go to sleep to a nice thread and wake up to a trashfire on a consistent basis for the last week or two
We need a night guard.

>>7157060
Are you absolutely sure you can't pass? People aren't very objective when it comes to themselves. Killing yourself is hardly a "solution".

>>7157159
Why do you think this way? Why does someone's gender identity matter so much that you'd think them lesser for having it?

>>7158093
this is a relatively chill and diverse place, i'm a csts ftm and hang around here a lot though i also do a lot of (unofficial) research on the etiology of sex discordance so probably know more about a*p than blanchard at this point (though blanchard knows nothing about a*p, so)
a lot of trans girls, especially on /lgbt/, have deluded themselves into thinking they suffer from a LACK of passability. i tend to refer to these inverse-hons as fampais. how are you so confident you could never be a girl? the boat sails a lot later than you think.
personality is definitely an impediment. what about your personality do you think is unfeminine? a lot of agps struggle with having masculine personalities in transition and with sticking out as 'obvious immigrants' in their actions as women (hell, hsts -- as in my definition, not blanchard's -- can have the same problem, because gay male culture may be effeminate but it isn't feminine), but these obstacles are surmountable.
you seem to be very aware that suicide is the wrong answer here, which is good
how are you so confident making these calls about yourself when you apparently aren't even living as female yet?

>>7158093
I'm sorry. I hope things get better for you.

>i know i'm not one though
Then what are you? Men are certainly not known for being suffused with estrogen and lamenting that they're not feminine enough to feel accepted.

>i'm not even that feminine in personality or anything
Being a woman is not about conforming to some stereotype of femininity. You shouldn't change yourself just to fit what's expected of you.

>i'll never be passable
Are you sure of that? No lie, there are a lot of people who can't pass but for some reason almost every transitioner seems to think they're one of those people. Are you being objective?

>idk what to do with myself
I wish I could tell you. Can you imagine a realistic scenario in which you are happy? Is there anything you could do to make it happen? Is there anything you could do to improve your situation at all?
What I can tell you with certainty is that you shouldn't kill yourself. As you've noted there's nothing to gain by doing so. As long as you hold on there's at least some chance that you'll find a way to be happy. Please hold on. Please be strong.

>>7157807
Totally happens to modern western middle and upper class youth who grew up completely sheltered and baby-seated all thorough teenage years to safespaces of unis and all the shitfest going on in recent years.
Wasn't the same when I grew up and I've known plenty of women who could hang with men in workplace and informal environment without getting offended and crying about discrimination unlike the snowflakes these days.
Now men have to walk on eggshells, makes it more ridiculous to hear bs like "we want to be treated equally to men" from women who in reality cant take a minute of honest no-sugar-coating argument and would run crying to HR to get you fired.

Thread got derailed, but whatever

>>7157771
>>7157807
I don't think you're totally off but I do know that, at least in software, there are a lot of men who disproportionately bully and/or disregard women. I think it is a combination of both having a work culture that is very hostile to men too and a healthy dose of misogyny.

>>7158163
It's not like hostile workplaces are healthy for men either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/what-google-learned-from-its-quest-to-build-the-perfect-team.html?_r=0

If women forcing their way into the field are making it more professional.. well, that's a good thing.

>>7158111
>>7158161
any features i mention will just be brushed off as "plenty of cis women have ___"
but rest assured i'm not the typical 19 year old femboy who whines about being a turbohon
i guess "passable" isn't even the right word, because it suggests the use of tricks to pass works. if at the end of the day i look at myself naked and still see a man it's all fucked either way

as for personality, i suppose i am just used to being a man. nobody has ever confused me for a woman or has told me i'm like one. i've fit in generally well with men for my life. interests, humor, etc. male. mannerisms and body language male due to my immutable male skeleton

additionally
>Being a woman is not about conforming to some stereotype of femininity. You shouldn't change yourself just to fit what's expected of you.
i obviously can't do that, but when you have some obvious tranny being some dude it gets real fucking weird. and even if there are things that would be natural, so to speak, for me and feminine, it would be just as awkward and embarrassing as being a tranny. like my life becomes one huge joke.

>you seem to be very aware that suicide is the wrong answer here, which is good
living isn't necessarily the right answer either though

>how are you so confident making these calls about yourself when you apparently aren't even living as female yet?
i can't live as female, so by that logic i will never be able to make such calls. even if i were to start attempting to tomorrow i would just be a joke masquerading, amplifying all of my anxieties that i already have

>Then what are you? Men are certainly not known for being suffused with estrogen and lamenting that they're not feminine enough to feel accepted.
a failed man and an embarrassment

>Can you imagine a realistic scenario in which you are happy?
not really. even if magically i could be a girl and be completely happy with that i can never get over the futility and disappointment that is life as a wageslave

>>7158401
name three androgynous or feminine features you have. if you can't, you're delusional -- everyone has at least some androgynous features, nobody is made up of 100% [fe]male building blocks. that's not to say you're wrong when you say you're a poor candidate for passability, you may well be right, but nobody can make a call without seeing you and you're intent enough on believing you're the hon queen for it to raise the reddest of flags.
and while i try not to do the whole 'many cis women have masculine features' thing because statistically it's to a much lesser degree than trans women, keep in mind there are actually cis women with very, very strongly masculine features -- all the women on my mum's side look like hons, though relatively milder examples of such.
nobody's interests are 100% gendered, nor are they immutable. you're not giving much information about what you're like as a person, which really isn't amenable to getting advice. if you want to seek attention while wallow in your own misery, well, i guess that's a pretty feminine thing to do. but if you want to be happy you're going to have to do more than that, friend-o.

>>7156976
You're implying transitioning would actually make me happier when I actually see it as a way of doubling down and giving into the dysphoria.

I'm choosing to see it as a sexuality and if that's the case then I simply have to find a way to satiate it without it getting too much. Transitioning would be backwards for this because my life is far more than what turns me on and frustrates me.

>>7158524
I wasn't nearly as keen on pushing you to transition based on the limited information you've given us but if you're actually experiencing dysphoria, which you have not mentioned before, you need to realize that gender is about more than what turns you on. This is about being comfortable in your own skin.

How does your dysphoria manifest?

>>7158420
first, I reject your kafka trap. to play along,
>shoulder/height ratio
>wrist/height ratio
>fingers aren't construction worker tier
but that is due to being in the 90th percentile of height for American men
the existence of one to three feminine features does not make a man look like a woman just as one to three masculine features does not make a woman look like a man. i feel that you are incorrectly lumping me in with delusionals such as >>7154040 >>7153679
what are this person's feminine features? https://imgur.com/gallery/bHIn7

additionally, the fact that many people who are obviously not passing go on to be in public indicates that they are reasonably comfortable with that AND themselves in private, showing a fundamental difference in something between them and me. even those who are borderline - say they are able to pass with effective use of clothing, wigs, etc. - have to take it all off at the end of the day and either be ok with it or cry themselves to sleep. given that you see tales of both types sharing how ecstatic they feel at plastering their photos online and living their lives as unpassable or passable or borderline, i think there are many people who are ok with it. now how exactly does that work? that state of mind is baffling and foreign to me.

1/2

>>7158420
>nobody's interests are 100% gendered, nor are they immutable. you're not giving much information about what you're like as a person, which really isn't amenable to getting advice. if you want to seek attention while wallow in your own misery, well, i guess that's a pretty feminine thing to do. but if you want to be happy you're going to have to do more than that, friend-o.
what exactly do you want? i don't really know what to say. as of late i don't really have many interests, and in my life i've never had a passion, even before dysphoria and other mental illnesses hit me. i can't remember the last time i showered, it's been weeks at this point. i've always just kind of floated on and played vidya, some sports, and not really much else. reading a little, but that's mostly gone by the wayside. the only potentially positive interest would be a sport that tall people play that would make it somewhat less awkward being a tall woman. but then i would just feel like a massive cheating fraud.
if this is not helpful you're going to need to be more specific. now obviously i don't feel entitled to any advice at all, let alone good advice, but if it's just going to end up with me confused at seeing what feels to me like "it's not that bad luv urself" with a massive cliff in between me and that, i don't really want to bother

thanks for reading, even if you don't respond

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Sooooo whats the general advice for those who have no hope of transition and are just AGP being fine remaining men in their daily life?
How to remain sane with such a conflict of personal identity?

>>7158673
>>7158675
>now how exactly does that work? that state of mind is baffling and foreign to me.
it's a learned skill, and if you're giving an honest assessment of yourself here it may be a skill you have to learn. hons don't come to the conclusions that fampais make fun of them for out of nowhere, and they don't suddenly wake up one day okay with the situations they're in. they put on their wigs and their dresses and contour their faces into oblivion and prop their voices into the highest register they can, and go out and face the world and hope at least one spot of it accepts them as a woman. and for a year it is the worst hell they have ever lived. and then they come out the other side, aligned with some uneasy peace. for the most part they really aren't delusional, they're all too aware of what they are -- they just learned, forged by fire and blood, how to be okay with it. and they never would have understood it before, either.
i'm going to put on my captain obvious hat: you sound severely depressed. you know this, i'm just reiterating it so you understand how much it warps your thought processes. you aren't seeing objective reality here, and you're withdrawn into not doing anything.
what do you like reading, when you read? any genres you're into? reading is a pretty gender-neutral hobby, though genre preference is split by gender. given the depths of your depression, at this point you're going to have to put a lot of work into being interested in things (a daunting task, i myself am all too aware). may as well make those interests more feminine at the same time. i'm not entirely sure what to suggest because i don't want to sound stereotypical, though, and i don't want to get skinned alive because i suggested someone looking to find her female self take up knitting or some shit (but no lie, i've heard great things about knitting).
i don't know your hell but i know a hell, and i know how much it sucks to be in the depths of it.

>>7158693
You tell me. I bury myself in work/distractions.

>>7158673
>>7158675
Are you seeing a psychologist? Your depression alone demands that you do so.

>>7156847
>Okay so now that I know that I'm essentially aroused by an ideal girl I've concocted in my head that I both want to fuck but also want to be, how the hell am I supposed to balance this into something healthy I can explore without fucking up my life?

I'd say first of all you'd have to distance yourself from the idealization.

Idealization is often an unhealthy target for any sort of imaginary processes, doubly so regarding fantasies (of any sort) we might actually want to actualize, triply so if they involve core parts of who you are.

Not every woman is a QT 3.15 or bombshell, just as every man isn't a 11/10 pretty boy or hunky husbando. Even if we'd all like to be as close as possible to one of those things or some similar ideal, and I think this is a source of anxiety for EVERYONE, even those who do fit an ideal closely - the anxiety of maintaining it.

Compounding this with gender shit is like choosing nightmare mode for your only playthrough.

If you must have a genderbent self-image, whether in addition to or substitution of a self-image that matches your ostensible gender, you should examine it closely and purge it of any idealized features. Look at yourself and your most closely related family members on one hand, and your idealized girlform concoction on the other.

-Which features have NO relation at all with your family looks?
These have to go. E.G.: if your entire family has blue eyes and your genderbent self-image has brown eyes, if it's a different race, or your entire family is short and you imagine yourself as a tall woman.

-Which features are ENTIRELY derived from fictional references?
If any, such as features imported from an animu gurl, these HAVE TO GO, for the sake of your health.

The idea here is shifting from an "idealized optimal girlform" to a "faithful representation of yourself as female" which can be realistically aspired to, as a whole or partly.

>>7158524
Chiming in to say that I personally think this is a good approach.

>>7158675

Get back into the shower for starters

You're not going to fix anything in your life if you're a smelly sweatball.

>>7158798
Seconding this. Starting to take care of myself did wonders for my mental health.

>>7158739
i did. it's mostly useless. it only helped to convince me that i wasn't merely agp
platitudes and hugboxing don't do shit

>>7158718
honestly i don't have the energy to respond right now

>>7158838
that's understandable, i hope you can work up the energy to respond
i know it sounds odd over an anonymous imageboard but i genuinely have developed a concern for you through our communications and i truly hope you find the light you seek
i think you can, sad-chan
i think you can

Fucking deleted a long post I made. Basically...

>being a tripfag because having a consistent name here sounds nice and would be good for maybe forming friendships with other anons

>For me I am completely comfortable in my male body and although I'm average in looks I've never felt like I want to remove my dick, take hrt, or wear ultra feminine clothes because honestly whist I see this as a transsexual issue I know I'm not someone who wishes they were a girl full time, or even for five minutes to be honest.

>AGP for me is like being trapped between two genders with the male being the dominant gender and the female being what the male element is attracted to. It's more closer to asexuality in my opinion so far as the attraction is personal and does not require a third party to gratify it -- though I would fuck a 8/10 girl if I had the chance don't get me wrong. But I would probably be thinking 'Damn I would love to have your body' during sex rather than 'yeah I'm dominating her' etc. -- the difference being that the only time I would want to be the girl is during the sex act and that's it.

>My aim is to be tasteful in how I dress myself in a feminine way. You know, not garish bright colored wigs and dresses and all that clown-fish nonsense. But closer to a femboy with tasteful clothing choices which are much closer to an androgynous look

Kristen Stewart would be my dream look if I could get to it.

>>7156847
>how the hell am I supposed to balance this into something healthy I can explore without fucking up my life?

Ideally you should find other sexual fantasies to compete with AGP, a sex partner that shares your tastes (maybe an AAP, or near-lesbian, non-raging non-TERF feminist, or snowflake, or some combination thereof), and ways to seamlessly incorporate into your life things that satisfy your AGP needs while being as unobtrusive as possible.

Personal example of the last category:
-There was this stunning lesbian girl, fling of a friend, somewhat butchy but not a lot. Exactly the kind of girl that floors me on sight even if I am certain and accepting of the fact that she's sexually unattainable for me. First time I saw her, she was dressing somewhat classy, a bit office-lady-ish - and she indeed is an office lady. Soon I noticed she was wearing a men's watch. Not very obvious, but it was there. It seemed genius. Soon I started thinking: How the hell can I do the same thing - an off-gender item that looks good in itself, and can work as a subtle clue of who I am to people looking for it (whether consciously or not!). Few days after I found a wide, eastern-temed metal wristlet my girlfriend doesn't use - probably because it's too girly. I asked her if I could have it and yeah, sure. Ever since, I've been wearing it anytime I want to look good in public.

>I will not ever transition. It's simply not going to happen. Cross-dressing I can do. Heavy cross-dressing in private -- sure. Light cross-dressing or a more androgynous look in general I can settle for.

It's not going to happen because of material/societal constraints, or is it not going to happen because you actually don't want it to happen?

Cross-dress if you feel like it, moar androgyny seems to me like the best option here since it's conservative while not precluding any other options, and can make you be more at ease with yourself without putting you in worse trouble.

>>7159031
see this post I forgot to put a trip on

>>7159026


But also I'm going for angrogynous sort of punkish look without coming off as a special snowflake. You know be TASTEFUL with it which is where I feel many fuck up. Just have a nice hair cut, a tinge of make-up, maybe paint your nails, or wear a girlish vest or something. It's a stylish fashion choice that builds confidence.

I have plenty of confidence in my beliefs and ideas and have real world experience that I can crush goals like a pro if I put my mind to it. But I also feel worthless in terms of being attractive to the opposite sex but I dress in boring male clothes and put no effort in. And that's because female fashion (not dresses or ultra feminine stuff though) is more interesting to me.

>>7159054
Fuck now will the trip work?

>>7159026

Right there on the same boat m8

Except for me the envy and "being her" fantasies are neither 100% sexual nor are they actually required to enjoy sex.

When I'm having sex with a woman, I'm usually much more interested in giving her oral, and pleasuring her in whatever ways and learning how her body works. Or just looking at her being sexy. But penetrative sex works as intended for me, even if it's not what interests me the most, in fact the sexual urge usually only turns into an urge to actually fuck when I'm already incredibly horny.

>>7159070
I know what you mean about the oral and seeing her enjoy it. I think that comes from, for me, a worthlessness of being a guy only in terms of being physically attractive. That's it. Everything else about being a guy is great, I just think feminine beauty = power in some weird way.

Vaginas are gross though. Like, if you have one great congratulations but I've never sexualised one in my mind.

girl-cocks though...

>>7158838
Different therapists have different approaches. Find one that works for you. Please do this.

>>7159060
Fuck off tripshit

>>7159125
On any other board I get it. But here it helps to have consistency because I don't want to have to explain my agp view fresh every thread.

>>7159026
> It's more closer to asexuality in my opinion so far as the attraction is personal and does not require a third party to gratify it
It's interesting to hear you say this. For quite a while I have only ran into people who were both aroused by AGP fantasies and were attracted to other people. Recently I've ran into many people who said the same thing as you: that they're primarily autoerotic. I briefly theorized that AGP might be the intersection of some degree of autoeroticism and transsexuality but this idea can't account for people like you who don't really experience dysphoria, unless you somehow belong to another category entirely.

>>7159084
I kinda get you on the vagina front, except that I'm forced into a really weird position due to trans feels. "Vulvas are REALLY WEIRD and I want one."

>>7159152
Yay marginalization!

It's transgenderism first and foremost. And it is basically what excites me both sexually and aesthetically.

Being a mix of male and feminine is what I like best, even in the opposite sex. There's something 'safe but sexy' in androgyny that I like in other girls. Honestly I think I would be happiest with a Tgirl though because vaginas are pretty unnattractive to me.

>>7159164
Aren't vulva's just tiny hyper sensitive cocks?

>>7157794
Nurses make very good money and have great potential for career advancement, IDK why you're acting like being a nurse is a low paid shitty job.

>>7159167
>Aren't vulva's just tiny hyper sensitive cocks?
UH.. I think you might need to read this Anon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulva

>>7159132
Nah fuck off. Trip off or leave

>>7157794
>>7159185

I used to think, "Why do all the women from my race want to go into nursing?" Especially when I met a very smart one who still wanted to be a nurse or an artist. I felt like they could aspire to so much more. Then I found out some months ago that nurses can make stacks with a master's or doctorate. And since you can start making money as a nurse with just an associate's even I'm considering it now.

>>7159254
The real money is in radiography which involves getting patients in the right positions for the x-rays, etc. It's so specialised the pay wage is very high. Especially if you go private.

My uni friend gets a lot of banter about being called a 'button pusher' for this though she'll be knee deep in money in her thirties.

rip thread
was nice while it lasted

>>7158693
Idk fampai. I'm doing the femboy thing buts its not really rewarding when you don't date so most days I'm just a normal ugly sack of shit.

>>7158732
I just smoke/sleep it out. Working requires too much motivation desu

>>7159312
blackmangoing???.jpg

>>7159254
Yeah you can make fat stacks of cash as a nurse.

Even with just an AS , where I live at least, you can work at a hospital and start at like $28 an hour, and after a couple years you'll be making 30-33+ an hour.

With a BSN you can get into management and supervisor positions and make even more (know a lady that does this and makes $44 an hour to sit in an office), and then with masters you can be a practicioner/Anesthesia nurse/etc and make six figures.

This all depends on where you live of course. Where I live (midwest town) $30 an hour is plenty of money to live on your own and be able to save and have money left over.

>>7147407
autogynephilia

>>7159084
>>7159164

Of course there's power in beauty, that's undeniable.

Also I absolutely adore pussy. With every single sense save the possible exceptiong of hearing.

Sexually gratifying a girl is the closest I can get to physically feeling what a woman feels that a man can't. And frankly I can't help enjoying it wholeheartedly and trying to do my best all the time every single time.

>>7159132
There's at least one anal-retentive etiquette autism enforcer around that won't mind souring the thread and smear you for all he's worth if you keep tripping it. Comply or don't, your choice, but he's going to keep ruining it for you if you do, maybe even if you don't.

>>7159942
It's cool senpai.

Also I think something about Michael Douglas getting mouth cancer because he ate out his wife put me off of doing it.

I mean shit. I still would. Just the girl would have to be a real clean 8/10 at least.

>>7160257
Great, another general ruined by tripfags.

>>7160368
I already responded to you mate.

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Getting into /agp/ fashion.

What do you think? I'm starting with minimalist feminine jumpers and going from there.

>>7158524
>You're implying transitioning would actually make me happier when I actually see it as a way of doubling down and giving into the dysphoria.
Since you don't seem to have actually read my arguments, I'm just going to repeat them.
>Repressing and living vicariously through CDing or partners isn't going to make you feel any better. That hasn't worked for 95% of the people that tried, and it won't work for you either.
And transitioning isn't "giving in to the dysphoria" anymore than seeking help for asthma or a broken leg is "giving in" to those medical problems, you're simply drawing lines in the sand because of your own, or perceived, stigmas about it.
>You don't have to present female or socially transition if you don't want to. Chest binders should take care of what, will most likely be, small-medium breast growth,
I'm looking at this more like a medical problem of imbalanced hormones, than you needing to grow tits and have a show and tell about it.

>I'm choosing to see it as a sexuality and if that's the case then I simply have to find a way to satiate it without it getting too much.
>This is how every single Hon you've ever seen gets into their predicament. LEARN from their mistakes, instead of trying to rationalize that you're some snowflake that isn't making the exact same one.

I'm only leaning towards transition because it honestly sounds like the best thing for you. Your recounts sound exactly like how I've seen countless other trans people try to repress and rationalize, and how I used to repress as well.
>Also, if you're truly comfortable just being andro, then it shouldn't be a problem for you personally or socially to imagine living with a feminine body chest bound and dressed in masculine clothes.

I also agree with both
>>7158550
>you need to realize that gender is about more than what turns you on. This is about being comfortable in your own skin.
and
>>7158785
completely.

And last but not least
>AA for month and see if you feel the same.

I'm actually curious about this. I know that their are trans men who are autoandrophilic, but are there female to male people who are AGP? Like, are there natal women who transition into men, and then develop a fetish for being women? Do trans men have sissy and forced feminization fantasies?

>>7160438
Unless you are petite and feminine build those jumpers are gonna look horrible on you. Just sayin

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>>7160754
>>7160740

This is my current build. Arms are hench-ish but I don't really give a shit as 'passing' isn't what I'm going for.

Just want to get a little /fa/ with it but still very much be considered a guy.

>>7160696
I've seen posts to that effect
Might have even been pre-transition (so AFAB who wanted to be a dude but got turned on by having a female body)

>tfw you will never have the balls to kill yourself
>tfw even if you did God isn't real and you won't reincarnate as a happy person

>>7160849
why not kill your balls yourself?

>>7160795
You probably don't want to hear this, but I think your current build looks really hot.

>>7159196
I actually considered making a trip just so I wouldn't have to repeat my experience transitioning with AGP so often. Why would that be such a bad thing?

>>7160257
>Also I think something about Michael Douglas getting mouth cancer because he ate out his wife put me off of doing it.
That can't be true.

>>7160740
>>7160795

There's probably an oversized one somewhere that suits you.

I'd like something like that too

>>7161017
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/oral-sex-and-throat-cancer-michael-douglas-hpv-report-spotlights-epidemic/

>>7161059
I know guys can carry it, does that mean you can get it from sucking dick??

>>7161074
Yes

>>7160919
How does that make me happy?

>>7161130
I'm probably going to get that vaccine then, my mom keeps telling me to get it anyway

I already have autism

>>7161133
I thought you might want to become less masc and maybe get a little estrogenized

either way don't even bother thinking about suicide, think about ANYTHING you could be doing different

>>7161059
So really he got cancer from an STD (which is totally reasonable), not just from oral sex.

>>7160999
Because tripfags always destroy everything they touch
1. Nobody is going to remember your story anyway
2. It only encourages retards to come in and trip
3. Every single time tripfags invade this general turns to pure cancer
4. This happens to every other decent anon gen

What are your fetishes AGP?
And why do you like them?

>>7161722
>Because tripfags always destroy everything they touch
Why? Also this is quite hyperbolic.
>1. Nobody is going to remember your story anyway
Wrong.
>2. It only encourages retards to come in and trip
Okay
>3. Every single time tripfags invade this general turns to pure cancer
Why?
>4. This happens to every other decent anon gen

There's frequent tripping on /x/ and people enjoy it there.

>>7159152
there are a lot of cis men who experience agp
agp trans women are the conclusion of its progressive course, but not the inevitable one -- trannies make up about 0.2% of the population and crossdressers (who are overwhelmingly agp) around 2%
under the current social context the number of agps who progress to sex discordance is expected to increase
>>7159167
>Aren't vulva's just tiny hyper sensitive cocks?
that would be the clitoris
>>7159185
nursing is a pretty decent career, but it shares many traits with other pink-collar careers
pink-collar =/= bad
also nurse practicioners are under the banner of nurses but are not specifically what i'm referring to here, cnas are also under that banner and do kind of suck so it's an incredibly wide range

>>7162417
>agp trans women

I think this is me.

I basically switch between emotionally numb -> crying and extremely depressed/suicidal because not girl -> hyper agp and jerk off multiple times a day to porn imagining I'm the girl or imagining I have a bf and can do things with him

>>7162507
sounds about right, friend-o
now that you know this to be true, what are you going to do about it?
how old are you? what do you want to do with your life? have you been trying to 'repress' through masculinity in any way, perhaps coincided with intermittently trying to scrub all agp material from your life?

>>7162535
I don't know.

I think the trans stuff is super serious, or maybe I'm just super pathetic.


I feel like it's a hump that I have to get over otherwise my life will continue to stagnate and I'll never be able to do anything.

I don't feel like a person because I can't be feminine/a girl, nothing I do matters, I hate myself and my body. Maybe it's serious trans + being turned on by feeling sexy/attractive?

I don't know. I'm really considering ordering hormones.

I'm getting to the point where I'm probably going to kill myself if I don't do something. It's driving me crazy, I just lay in bed and cry.

I'm going to college for something I don't like so I can work hard at something I don't like so I can live a life I don't want. It makes me want to die.

I want to be a girl and live like a girl.

>have you been trying to repress through masculinity

sort of

I got made fun of by parents when I was younger for acting girly and so since then I've always overanalyzed and policed myself for acting feminine.

I think that's part of why I can't stand stuff so much is that I can never be feminine or girly.

>>7162674
1. order hormones
2. make new social media accounts as girl
3. sit down, reassess college situation, strongly consider changing major or even schools
4. begin thinking of girl name and aesthetic -- figure out who you are now in lieu of what others wanted you to be

>>7162715
>3. sit down, reassess college situation, strongly consider changing major or even schools
>4. begin thinking of girl name and aesthetic -- figure out who you are now in lieu of what others wanted you to be


that just seems super agp like I'm designing my ideal girl i wanna be


and I don't know what I like or what I want or anything

my whole life it just feels like I've been doing whatever is expected of me and I'm not actually a real person

>>7162801
...well, you ARE agp. i understand that you don't want to seem 'weird' or 'embarassing', but hell, being a tranny can be 'weird' and 'embarassing'. and it'd be a whole lot weirder and more embarassing to just keep living as a guy.
i suggest you redesign yourself and your plans because of your feeling that 'you aren't a real person' -- if there's no you, then you have to build a new you. why not build the you that makes you happier?

>>7162831
>...well, you ARE agp

I don't want to be though.

I wanted to be a girl from a younger age, always thought it was normal to want to be a girl, I'm attracted to guys, and not just to feel girly I'm attracted to guys bodies.

>>7162974
then you're somewhere in the points where the categories blur, though more agp than anything else (there seems to be varying degrees of neurofeminization)
does that make you feel superior over other agps? it shouldn't
i'm csts -- 'trutrans' -- and i don't feel superior over aaps, back when i thought i was bi i dated a few and they're excellent people in their own right whose dysphoria is just as legitimate as my own
but then we get right back to -- why not be the person you've always wanted? does it scare you? are you unused to doing things for yourself to the point you don't know how?

>>7163106
>does it scare you?
Yes.

What if hormones don't make me feel better? Then I'm really fucked up because I'm not trans/agp/whatever I'm just very mentally ill, or more/less so I guess.

I don't want anyone to know I feel like this. It's so disgusting and I hate myself for it.

I don't know how to know what I want or like or who I am as a person.

I'm mostly scared of the future because I have no idea what I'm going to do but I know that probably everything will be the same except I'll want to kill myself more.

I guess I'm going to sleep now or something, sorry for wasting your time anon

>>7163106
also desu i would consider myself at least equal parts trans and agp but imo more trans than agp

I'm definitely not cis at the very least

just based on stuff from my childhood, hating my body, jealousy, discomfort, etc

>>7163157
you aren't wasting my time at all
you sound to me very much like a trans girl who just realized that, is terrified by it, and doesn't know what to do with her life
you are not the first to take that path and you will not be the last
let the lights your fellow travellers left you guide the way
hormones don't necessarily make you 'feel better', making your life better makes you feel better -- but that, i know all too well, is easier said than done
you're going to have to tell people eventually. i know you hate yourself. it is not uncommon, at all, by any stretch of the imagination, for agp trans girls to hate themselves for it. it's weirder when they don't, really. and somewhere through your self-loathing you've lost yourself and you're too scared to find her -- but you have to. you don't have a choice. she can have a much better life than you possibly imagined.

>>7161791
Bi? Mtf? Here. I love tits. In the last year I found myself jerking off to bras, so a bra fetish? I think I feel about bras the way other perverts feel about panties. And lots of nipple play. My sickest fantasy is to find a girl with perky breasts who has no problem feeding them to me and who gets wet suckling from mine. A soft warm mouth surrounding and slowly pulling my nipples, the physical contact alone plus the sensations of milk flow and of feeding someone I like from my own body are incredibly erotic. I guess being trans I can feel a little better about my lactophilia, I still can't tell anyone about it. My sister found my manual pump once, muy embarrassing. But we're a never-talk-about-it kind of family so I'm good there? Between breast play, avoiding mirrors and treating my penis like a clit, I guess I must be trans. This shit is still very new to me, I'm used to being disgusting but this whole girl soul thing has thrown me for a loop.

>>7162801
Wow you're me! You must be a person. I have been a non-person for years and I'm sick of it. I'm sick of being Quasimodo. Being a non-entity in your head will only lead to dysphoria or suicide. I was a non-person long before dysphoria broke. Might be a factor in why I have it.

>>7163157
THIS.
I feel it all. You said it perfectly. I feel disgusting and wish I didn't exist.

>>7163157
hormones don't make you feel better
they only prevent you from accelerated further into the depths

>>7163418
for many people they do
and not getting worse is already an improvement

but if you have other disorders on top you should treat them foremost, hormones alone wont help

>>7162507
I agree with the guy saying that you sound trans as hell and should seriously consider acting on it. Just let me add that, if it helps, most transitioners eventually stop experiencing AGP/AAP.

>>7163418
There are a lot of people who say that hormones alone made them feel a great deal better.

>>7163463
>>7163486
perpetuating that meme is harmful because it suggests a magic cure and results in unrealistic expectations

>tfw Blanchard is retweeting Blaire White

>>7163541
I agree that advancing the idea that popping pills will always solve everything is harmful, but I also know of some people who do that and feel better because it works for them, even though they can't afford to socially transition.

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Do I belong in this thread? Or /lgbt/ in general?

>fantasize about being a woman
>never think to myself as a man
>recently began crossdressing for comfort (no masturbating, usually aroused when I do it)
>talk to random people on kik and omegle as a girl (not sure if this is considered catfishing since I just crossdress and change my name) to be treated and talked to like a girl, no alterior motive or anything like that. I just wanna feel like a girl
>recently started constructing fake boobs so I can convincingly lift my shirt and show cleavage and see "my" breasts instead of stuffing the one bra I own

I just wanna know I'm not some sick freak

>>7163583
Yes.
What do you feel is the motivation behind your behavior? Why do you do what you do?

>>7163559
more disturbing, to me, is that he's retweeting maria catt (a terf detransitioner)
blanchard is the nixon of sex discordance research, simultaneously invaluable and a hack, and even though he's unknown in the current social context it lets him validate all kinds of surreal shit to himself

>>7163541
its universally medically approved and basically the only available treatment for dysphoria

to avoid unrealistic expectations simply keep in mind that HRT alone wont cure your major depression or whatever disorder you might have


>A marked reduction in psychopathology occurs during the process of sex reassignment therapy, especially after the initiation of hormone therapy.


>the most common comorbidity in both groups was depression, with a 24.9 % incidence in MTF subjects and 13.6 % in FTM”. After treatment, 2.4 % of the male-to-female subjects and 1.4 % of the female-to-male subjects still reported depression.

>>7163599
Him retweeting TERFs is old news though. Quoting Blaire is just weird.

>>7163598
I cant really pin point it exactly but here's a few things I DO know

>I've wanted to be a girl since I was a little kid (my mother was always concerned that I kept referring to myself as "a girl" and "when I was a girl before..."
If you believe in past lives, that might be an explanation all on its own
>see the way girls dress, see the way I dress (or am allowed to dress, since I'm limited to guy clothes) and get jealous kf their pretty outfits
>see how girls are the pinnacle of beauty, want to become that (I know I cant)
If its any other info, I always play as a girl in games

>>7163613
well, one of the few things he and blaire are mutually right on is that almost all claims of nonbinary are bullshit
>>7163583
yeah, classic agp possible-trans-girl
welcome

>>7163603
for how long?
either way peddling it as something that will make you feel better rather than something likely to make you feel less worse than you otherwise might have is reckless

>>7163622
How do you feel about your body?

>>7163646
I am both proud and disgusted by it

>spent the past few years working out and eating right to have the body I have today, lean, muscular, natural with the stamina of a rabid bull
>disgusted, my sweaty disgusting body wont stop feelig uncomfortable. My penis just flops around and I hate pubic hair. Spend more time thinking about what I'd do and wear if I was a woman than I do thinking about my current look aside from working out

Girls think that I'm checking them out. I'm actually inspecting their outfits to see if I'd wear it or not.

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Does anyone know how to get completely smooth everywhere? I mean EVERYWHERE.

>>7163657
Well I obviously can't tell for sure based on two short posts on a Tajikistanian hardware shop but you sound like you could potentially be trans if the level of discomfort you're experiencing is high. What do you think? Is that a possibility?

>>7163682
I doubt it. But then again I'm not exactly sure how transexuality comes about. I've heard of huge powerlifters in their 40s who end up transitioning

I dont think its a possibility for me however. I feel uncomfortable, but it feels right (if that makes sense)

>>7163690
I guess it comes down to this: are you happy? Do you like or dislike having a man's body? Would you or would you not prefer to have a woman's body? Do you still internally see yourself as something other than your birth sex?

>>7163690
those huge powerlifting mtfs experience their dysphoria from the same sense as you: agp. it progresses to full blown sex discordance in a substantial minority of those afflicted and crossdressing/'genderfluidity' in a larger minority. agp is progressive -- you go from uncomfortable but okay to not okay, and you can't really predict if it'll progress for you or not.
but the fact you're here is a sign it will.

>>7163708
Yes, happy enough.
I dont dislike it but like is a strong word
Definitely prefer a woman's body
Yes
>>7163736
I'm not the kind if person who reads something he doesn't understand and says he got it. I didnt understand much of this post

>>7163760
you're here because you're an autogynephile, a fetish based around perceiving yourself as a woman. for some agps it remains purely within the realm of fantasy, but for others -- maybe most, prevalence studies kind of don't exist here -- it progresses past fantasy into reality. many agps will eventually become crossdressers. contrary to popular belief, crossdressers aren't solely doing it out of aesthetic -- they're dysphoric, sort of pseudo-trannies. the tumblr concept of 'genderfluidity' is actually an extremely accurate way of capturing the experience of crossdressers.
from there, or perhaps just jumping straight from the fantasy stage (which is becoming more common with the internet), a subset will experience more and more dysphoria and become trans women. this traditionally happens at middle age, but can be much earlier (most of /agpg/) or later (caitlyn jenner). the number of agps who are progressing to true sex discordance may be increasing, or perhaps the prevalence of agp itself is increasing (the prevalence of aap certainly seems to be increasing).
a lot of agps repress their dysphoria through hypermasculinity, mostly because agps experience less neurological feminization than other types of trans women and thus are actually capable of it, and transition only when the dysphoria is so severe as to cut through their defences. thus, transitioning powerlifters in their 40s.

>>7163760
Your situation is interesting. Since you're happy I'd normally say that you don't have to do anything nearly as drastic as transitioning but the
>Yes
is kind of a strong sign that you might be trans. You should, at the very least, go see a therapist.

>>7163808
My doctor recommended that when I told him I was Bi.

At the time, I was just being a snowflake, but the bicuriosity never went away.

Are therapists expensive? I'm not exactly an oil tycoon

>>7157771
>however, the increase of women in these fields has flatlined and is maintaining at its current pace, something feminists claim is a sign the push is dying down.
If only feminists would go into STEM etc instead of gender studies, all this shit would be fixed in a decade.

>>7163878
but then who would fill the positions of telling women what to do?

>>7163878
There are a lot of women going into STEM and being driven out by troglodytes.

>>7158718
i barely read. a couple pages before i sleep at best. just game of thrones and hitchhiker's guide. but it's kind of bleh, not like there's anything else i'd prefer.
can't just "get interested" in things. even when i wasn't very depressed i wasn't very interested in things.

>>7159116
i'll just hop down to the therapists that work for you store

>>7163666
epilate or wax and make sure to take good care of your skin exfoliate, moisturize, etc.

What the hell is STEM?

>>7163736
The "progressive" trait scares me a bit, since I'm pretty stable and most of my suffering comes from other shit, I'm glad my dysphoria sits really low, I just hope it doesn't have a too dramatic jump up further down the line...

>>7164460
Science
Technology
Education
Mechanics

>>7164481
*Engineering
*Math

>>7164460
Sociology
Transportation
English
Management

>>7163486
>most transitioners eventually stop experiencing AGP/AAP.


The first couple times I dressed in girl clothes I got erections and hated it but I think that was just the shock because now that I'm used to it I just feel calm and sort of excited and don't get erections.


But I randomly get erections sometimes and when I'm dressed up I hate it and usually take off the clothes.

>>7161791
getting dominated, controlled, and borderline emotionally abused
I blame my childhood desu

>>7164599
For how long have you been out as a woman? From what I can tell this usually takes a while.

>>7164773
I haven't, not even on hormones.


I just crossdress sometimes, but most of the time I can't even be bothered to because I just look gross and manly, like a man in girl clothes.

>>7164802
I hate this feel :^(

>>7159152
>AGP might be the intersection of some degree of autoeroticism and transsexuality
I am not at all turned on by the idea of being a girl, or masturbation as a girl etc.
I'm only turned on at the idea of having sex as a girl.

>>7161363
I guess, but I don't see a reason to attemp hormones. I'm never going to appear feminine even in the slightest.

>>7164924
I understand that, and I think the same about myself, but then I look at some transition timelines who start off very manly and end up looking pretty much female

>>7160849
Why would you kill yourself though?

>>7161791
>fetishes
All kinds of submissive shit: Being choked, rape-play, having my face pushed down on the ground with my arse up etc.
>why
Makes me feel worthy.

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Look what I found.

A facegen thing which'll show you what you might vaguely look like as a girl.

How did I do?

>>7165019
>even stamps your forehead with FAG

huh.

>>7165050
Ahaha nice.

>>7165019
Link?

>>7162507
>>7162674
>>7163157

That all sounds like you're (strongly) trans and would be happier if you transitioned. Nothing to suggest otherwise.

Feeling ashamed, disgusted, and depersonalised is very common for trans people. This is caused both by social pressure, and by the feelings from being trans itself (and the comorbid depression). I get heavy "I'm not a real person" thoughts too.

Would being female make you feel more like a real person?

>What if hormones don't make me feel better?
In case like yours they usually do. You're almost a stereotypical transsexual with the exception of being AGP, and being AGP doesn't invalidate your transsexualism or dysphoria. If they aren't for you then you can stop them with minimal consequences; far lesser consequences than not taking them when they would help you (and you likely need to). I think the chances are high enough to confidently recommend that you at least push yourself to order them. That way you'll get through a lot of the pressure, and you'll have them with you even if you don't take them immediately, so there's less of a barrier to you taking them beyond just your willingness to do so.

>>7164599
>The first couple times I dressed in girl clothes I got erections and hated it but I think that was just the shock because now that I'm used to it I just feel calm and sort of excited and don't get erections.
Does that actually happen? I've often heard that feelings of arousal are just down to "shock" or "excitement" but it always struck me as an excuse to explain away AGP (and I latched onto that when I was repressing my AGP but not my being trans). People don't get erections from non-sexual "excitement" in other contexts (or I mean, at least I'm pretty sure they don't).

>>7163583
You aren't a freak. There's nothing harmful or shameful about what you are doing. AGP sexuality is uncommon, complicated and not very well understood, but it's no less legitimate.

>tfw you start realizing your belief that S C I E N C E might be able to turn you into a cute cyborg in your lifetime might be misplaced but it's too late to transition
Time to pretend to be a woman on the internet for 60 years.

>>7165143
(someone else)
Heh this is funny

I've had heavy and long-term depersonalization/derealization (dissociation is how it's called here) since I was what, twelve? Episodically even before that. But I think it's totally unrelated to AGP in my case.

Dissociation can be a total bitch and not much you can do about it beyond NGAF and/or getting your shit together.

>>7160849
>wanting to reincarnate
>not मोक्ष
don't be so basic, senpai

>>7166046
Don't lose hope yet. Who knows what'll happen in the next 20 year?

>>7164948
Why not? I don't have motivations or aspirations. I'm in college, with no idea what to do afterwards, just drifting through life doing as little as possible.

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>tfw looking at fiction about beautiful women capable of doing anything men can do triggers your agp

nu

>>7169465

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>>7168436
nothing good from what I can see and read