Butch General

how do i into looking attractive

>tfw your body will never be petite and androgynous

It makes finding good looking clothes harder.

I umm. I have two buttonups from the mens section i throw on sometimes. Still get maamd in it

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>tfw you want to be the cool, sexy andro type that leans a bit butch
>tfw want to be tall but 5'3
>tfw try to get /fit/, but just get curvier
>tfw babyface
>tfw everyone says that you're too "cute" to pull off the look you want
>tfw all you want is to be hardcore, tough and cool

Can I live vicariously through you guys?

My butchness fluctuates so often. Lately I've been wanting to try out cute dresses and stuff but I still consider my personality butch.

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Not a fan of bowties, but this is just the right level of butch.

>>6852713
then lose some weight you fat cunt

I think you should start posting pics to show us what you're working with.
This is not obviously a ploy to get pics created by a cis het male who has a rape boner for butch lesbians.
Not at all.

DOOO EEEEEEEEEEEET

>>6855757

No amount of weight loss makes big hips become smaller. Bone structure cannot be changed.

>>6855965
>butch lez with big hips
>HNNNNNNNNNG
Tell me the ass is fat and the tits are delicious
FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP

>>6847733
Its always nice to have this thread pop up every once and a wile.

>>6855965
iktf and I'm trans.
I want to be waiflike and androgynous but I have massive hips and thighs

Tell me about your hair, guys. What style is it?

I am half-black and I went natural a few years ago. I had been perming my hair since age 9 but did not like it; my parents were the ones that wanted it. Now I'm bored of afros though. I want to wear a pixie cut so I'm perming my hair again.

>tfw men's clothes don't come in pastel outside of spring

It sucks.

>tfw black
>want to be a cute butch, not a stud

>>6868893
>tfw transethnic is not an accepted identity

Why is butch infinitely superior to femme?
Most butch that I meet are super cool and shit, but almost every femme I've ever seen is some kind of batshit nympho.

>>6847733
I love butch women. Oxfords, vests, ties, bow ties, pants, short hair, little to no makeup, etc. Unf, yes please. Butch girls are SO hot.

I just love the butch personality. It's so dominant, cool, and so... lesbian. I love their suave and debonair presence. I love it when they act gentlemanly and treat me like a lady; buying me flowers, holding doors for me, complimenting me, etc.

Call me old fashion, but I like my butches to be total tops too (femme bottom here).

>>6852746
Just do if anon. To me butch is a personality first and an image second. Plus the mental image of a naturally feminine woman expressing her butch side sounds super fucking cute.

>>6868985
Damn.
How you do'en

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isn't a plaid shirt a requirement?

>>6868985
Have you considered dating a dude

Athanasius was born to a Christian family in the city of Alexandria[4] or possibly the nearby Nile Delta town of Damanhur sometime between the years 293 and 298. The earlier date is sometimes assigned due to the maturity revealed in his two earliest treatises Contra Gentes (Against the Heathens) and De Incarnatione (On the Incarnation), which were admittedly written about the year 318 before Arianism had begun to make itself felt, as those writings do not show an awareness of Arianism.[1]

However Cornelius Clifford places his birth no earlier than 296 and no later than 298, based on the fact that Athanasius indicates no first hand recollection of the Maximian persecution of 303, which he suggests Athanasius would have remembered if he had been ten years old at the time. Secondly, the Festal Epistles state that the Arians had accused Athanasius, among other charges, of not having yet attained the canonical age (30) and thus could not have been properly ordained as Patriarch of Alexandria in 328. The accusation must have seemed plausible.[1] The Orthodox Church places his year of birth around 297.[4]

Education[edit]
His parents were wealthy enough to afford giving him a fine secular education.[1] Some Western scholars consider his command of Greek, in which he wrote most of his surviving works, evidence that he was a Greek born in Alexandria. However, in Coptic literature, Athanasius is the first patriarch of Alexandria to use Coptic as well as Greek in his writings.[5]

Rufinus relates a story that as Bishop Alexander stood by a window, he watched boys playing on the seashore below, imitating the ritual of Christian baptism. He sent for the children and discovered that one of the boys (Athanasius) had acted as bishop.

>>6869513
After questioning Athanasius, Bishop Alexander informed him that the baptisms were genuine, as both the form and matter of the sacrament had been performed through the recitation of the correct words and the administration of water, and that he must not continue to do this as those baptized had not been properly catechized. He invited Athanasius and his playfellows to prepare for clerical careers.[6]

Alexandria was the most important trade center in the whole empire during Athanasius's boyhood. Intellectually, morally, and politically—it epitomized the ethnically diverse Graeco-Roman world, even more than Rome or Constantinople, Antioch or Marseilles.[6] Its famous catechetical school, while sacrificing none of its famous passion for orthodoxy since the days of Pantaenus, Clement of Alexandria, Origen of Alexandria, Dionysius and Theognostus, had begun to take on an almost secular character in the comprehensiveness of its interests, and had counted influential pagans among its serious auditors.[7]

Athanasius recounts being a student, as well as being educated by the Martyrs of the Great (tenth) and last persecution of Christianity by pagan Rome.[citation needed] This persecution was most severe in the East, particularly in Egypt and Palestine. Peter of Alexandria, the 17th archbishop of Alexandria, was martyred in 311 in the closing days of that persecution, and may have been one of those teachers. His successor as bishop of Alexandria, Alexander of Alexandria (312–328) was an Origenist as well as a documented mentor of Athanasius. According to Sozomen, Bishop Alexander "invited Athanasius to be his commensal and secretary. He had been well educated, and was versed in grammar and rhetoric, and had already, while still a young man, and before reaching the episcopate, given proof to those who dwelt with him of his wisdom and acumen".[1]

>>6869525
Athanasius' earliest work, Against the Heathen – On the Incarnation (written before 319), bears traces of Origenist Alexandrian thought (such as repeatedly quoting Plato and used a definition from Aristotle's Organon) but in an orthodox way. Athanasius was also familiar with the theories of various philosophical schools, and in particular with the developments of Neo-Platonism. Ultimately, Athanasius would modify the philosophical thought of the School of Alexandria away from the Origenist principles such as the "entirely allegorical interpretation of the text". Still, in later works, Athanasius quotes Homer more than once (Hist. Ar. 68, Orat. iv. 29). In his letter to Emperor Constantius, he presents a defense of himself bearing unmistakable traces of a study of Demosthenes de Corona.

Athanasius knew Greek and admitted not knowing Hebrew [see, e.g., the 39th Festal Letter of St. Athan.]. The Old Testament passages he quotes frequently come from the Septuagint Greek translation. Only rarely did he use other Greek versions (to Aquila once in the Ecthesis, to other versions once or twice on the Psalms), and his knowledge of the Old Testament was limited to the Septuagint.[8] Nonetheless, during his later exile, with no access to a copy of the Scriptures, Athanasius could quote from memory every verse in the Old Testament with a supposed reference to the Trinity without missing any.[citation needed] The combination of Scriptural study and of Greek learning was characteristic of the famous Alexandrian School.

Bishop (or Patriarch, meaning the head of the Centre of the Church, in Alexandria) Alexander ordained Athanasius a deacon in 319.[9] In 325, Athanasius served as Alexander's secretary at the First Council of Nicaea. Already a recognized theologian and ascetic, he was the obvious choice to replace his aging mentor Alexander as the Patriarch of Alexandria,[10] despite the opposition of the followers of Arius and Meletius of Lycopolis.[9]

>>6869531
At length, in the Council of Nicaea, the term "consubstantial" (homoousion) was suggested by Athanasius: it was immediately adopted, and a formulary of faith embodying it was drawn up by Hosius, Hosius of Cordoba. From this time to the end of the Arian controversies the word "consubstantial" continued to be the test of Catholic orthodoxy. The formulary of faith drawn up by Hosius is known as the Nicene Creed.[11]

While still a deacon under Alexander's care (or early in his patriarchate as discussed below) Athanasius may have also become acquainted with some of the solitaries of the Egyptian desert, and in particular Anthony the Great, whose life he is said to have written.[6]

Opposition to Arianism[edit]
Further information: Arian controversy
In about 319, when Athanasius was a deacon, a presbyter named Arius came into a direct conflict with Alexander of Alexandria. It appears that Arius reproached Alexander for what he felt were misguided or heretical teachings being taught by the bishop.[12] Arius' theological views appear to have been firmly rooted in Alexandrian Christianity, and his Christological views were certainly not radical at all.[13] He embraced a subordinationist Christology which taught that Christ was the divine Son (Logos) of God, made, not begotten, heavily influenced by Alexandrian thinkers like Origen,[14] and which was a common Christological view in Alexandria at the time.[15] Support for Arius from powerful bishops like Eusebius of Caesarea[16] and Eusebius of Nicomedia,[17] further illustrate how Arius's subordinationist Christology was shared by other Christians in the Empire. Arius was subsequently excommunicated by Alexander, and he would begin to elicit the support of many bishops who agreed with his position.

Patriarch[edit]
Frances A. M. Forbes writes that when the Patriarch Alexander was on his death-bed he called Athanasius, who fled fearing he would be constrained to be made Bishop.

>>6869536
"When the Bishops of the Church assembled to elect their new Patriarch, the whole Catholic population surrounded the church, holding up their hands to Heaven and crying; "Give us Athanasius!" The Bishops had nothing better. Athanasius was thus elected, as Gregory tells us..." (Pope Gregory I, would have full access to the Vatican Archives).[18]

T. Gilmartin, (Professor of History, Maynooth, 1890), writes in Church History, Vol. 1, Ch XVII: On the death of Alexander, five months after the termination of the Council of Nicaea, Athanasius was unanimously elected to fill the vacant see. He was most unwilling to accept the dignity, for he clearly foresaw the difficulties in which it would involve him. The clergy and people were determined to have him as their bishop, Patriarch of Alexandria, and refused to accept any excuses. He at length consented to accept a responsibility that he sought in vain to escape, and was consecrated in 326, when he was about thirty years of age.[11]

Athanasius' episcopate began on 9 May 328 as the Alexandrian Council elected Athanasius to succeed the aged Alexander. That council also denounced various heresies and schisms, many of which continued to preoccupy his 45-year-long episcopate (c. 8 June 328 – 2 May 373). Patriarch Athanasius spent over 17 years in five exiles ordered by four different Roman Emperors, not counting approximately six more incidents in which Athanasius fled Alexandria to escape people seeking to take his life. This gave rise to the expression "Athanasius contra mundum" or "Athanasius against the world". However, during his first years as bishop, Athanasius visited the churches of his territory, which at that time included all of Egypt and Libya. He established contacts with the hermits and monks of the desert, including Pachomius, which proved very valuable to him over the years.

>>6869546
Shortly thereafter, Athanasius became occupied with the theological disputes against Arians within the Byzantine Empire that would occupy much of his life.[10]

First exile[edit]
Athanasius' first problem lay with Meletius of Lycopolis and his followers, who had failed to abide by the First Council of Nicaea. That council also anathematized Arius. Accused of mistreating Arians and Meletians, Athanasius answered those charges at a gathering of bishops in Tyre, the First Synod of Tyre, in 335. There, Eusebius of Nicomedia and other supporters of Arius deposed Athanasius.[9] On 6 November, both sides of the dispute met with Emperor Constantine I in Constantinople.[19] At that meeting, the Arians claimed Athanasius would try to cut off essential Egyptian grain supplies to Constantinople. He was found guilty, and sent into exile to Augusta Treverorum in Gaul (now Trier in Germany).[9][10][20]

When Athanasius reached his destination in exile in 336, Maximinus of Trier received him not as a disgraced person. Athanasius stayed with him for two years. Also, Paul I of Constantinople stayed with him, who was banished by the Emperor Constantius. Maximinus, precautioned the Emperor Constans against the Arians, revealing their plots.[21]

When Emperor Constantine I died, Athanasius was allowed to return to his See of Alexandria. Shortly thereafter, however, Constantine's son, the new Roman Emperor Constantius II, renewed the order for Athanasius's banishment in 338. Athanasius went to Rome, where he was under the protection of Constans, the Emperor of the West. During this time, Gregory of Cappadocia was installed as the Patriarch of Alexandria, usurping the absent Athanasius. Athanasius did, however, remain in contact with his people through his annual Festal Letters, in which he also announced on which date Easter would be celebrated that year.[10]

We already have a thread going here:

>>6847919
>>6847919
>>6847919

>>6869513
>>6869525
>>6869531
>>6869536
>>6869546
>>6869553

All that. And Still tl;dr

>>6852733
This is butch gen not ftm gen.

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What you think of butch on butch friendos?
I'm pretty andro and don't really ID as butch, I've only dated femmes because they have been the only ones interested in me, but I'm a dirty bottom and all I want is a taller butch gf to cuddle and make me her personal rug mucher ;-;
I've been in love with pic related for so long, she's so cute desu

>>6854431
Conan O'Brien is a pretty good look, yes

>>6870363

Not that anon but I like crossdressing and pretending to be male too.

>>6870492
soft butch with soft butch is nice : ^)

>>6869466
Yes, but men are repulsive and disgust me (both physically and personality).

>>6872984
Second

>>6870492
I date both and everyone inbetween. Works well. I find that dating other butch girls tends to work out the best, because we understand each other so much better. We have the same stereotypically masc hobbies and ways of communicating, and we can both wordlessly understand /why/ neither of us is going to wear a dress to Aunt Diane's wedding even though it's going to be such a big fucking shitshow to show up there in a suit. And the constant glares/stares in public, or being read as a 12 year old instead of an adult. I'm in a stable relationship now but in the future I think I'd purposely limit myself to other butch women because of that.

The downside is that honestly a lot of us end up coming out as FtM and/or are gender dysphoric, so. Bit of a risk there.

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>>6873362
>tfw butch but questioning and dysphoric
>tfw my girlfriend still loves me but I don't know when she'll get tired
>tfw no one will want to date a trannyboy in denial

>>6858811
You don't have to only do afros though. You could do cute janelle monae-sequel pompadours. That's what I would all the time. Although I wear my hair in braids now.

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>>6874421
Monae-esque, I mean.

>>6874081
tfw I know that exact feel

I'm just hoping that my dysphoria never gets so bad that I /need/ to transition. My girlfriend has it too, but it's so genuinely mild for her that she can be happy without transitioning. Hoping that can work out for me too.

>>6874694
Honestly i just really want a beard desu + tits are weird, I hope I get over it in the next few years

>>6870492
>>6854431
how is this haircut called?

>>6877154
Looks like a pompadour that's grown out on the sides to me.

>>6874766
It's been 5 years for me since I learned what trans was and still decided not to transition and the dysphoria has honestly just gotten worse over time tbqh. But here's hoping it works out for both of us.

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>>6847733
You know what I hate? When you look up "butch" on any image search engine and all you get are disgusting hamplanets.

Anyway here's what I got at a 50% off opening sale.

>>6854431
Absolutely revolting.
White bow-tie with tailcoat black with a tux and then MAYBE a coloured one with a suit. I really want this meme of wearing bow-ties with informal clothing to end.

>>6855965
Then work out so that you build a nice core and shoulders to offset your hips instead of crying.

>>6870492
I like it but I'm very picky with partners already so it's not something I put a lot of value in.
She should loose some weight. That and the grimace make her look like a 12 year old boy.

>>6874081
>>6874694
:(
Just get over with it already bros, I believe in you. Don't let your dreams be memes.
A friend of mine is transitioning too and honestly he is so much happier and lively after only a year.

>>6877311
>You know what I hate? When you look up "butch" on any image search engine and all you get are disgusting hamplanets.

That's because most people use butch as an insult. 9/10 a butch person who's /fit/ will be described as "androgynous" instead. Your clothes look good. Agreed on the bowtie. The tryhard "dapper" lesbian memewear needs to go.

Who else butch but not naturally assertive? I swear girls expect me to be all dominant and shit when they meet me (which I can actually do for a little while) but that shit don't come naturally to me at all.

im not a butch exactly, more androgynous or femme androgynous, but i thought i'd ask some of you afab folks,
where do you buy menswear?

because if i wear my mens clothes i just look a bit too masculine for my tastes, i just want some cute dress shirts that are slim fitted and cute
>>6858811
https://youtu.be/BgC0n-GrsM8
https://youtu.be/Rp9NJNPkg2E
https://youtu.be/i1J1SarTmn8
https://youtu.be/DkZJn-YPJtg

you have plenty of options

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I'm butch, but not the 'dapper' kind.
I'm just trashy, I guess.

I only own like a shirt or two I haven't cut the sleeves off.

>>6877508
I used to be like this but fell for the "beta" vs "alpha" meme when I was an impressionable teenager and changed myself to be more assertive. I don't buy into the bullshit social theories anymore but I still act more assertive now, especially when it comes to women.

>>6877602
There's a couple options.

1. buy boy's clothes
2. buy masculine styled women's clothes
3. find adult men's brands that work at your size. popular choices include ASOS, topman, and uniqlo.

>>6877602
idk regular shops like h&m
they never fit properly but neither do female clothes

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>>6877161
its a grown out high and tight
the quintessential mens hair cut

>>6877635
>1. buy boy's clothes
huh
i never thought about this, but it would totally work
#2 is hard to find, and #3 is ehhhh, i think it'd make me feel a bit ~dysphoric~ i have a shitton of mens dress shirts that look like shit on me, but im not sure how to tailor them to look cute.
>>6877646
oh
yeah i need to try shopping in person some.

>>6877677
I don't think so, it looks like the tops on both of them are too long for that compared to the sides and they purposely gelling it up into the pompadour wave. The high and tight is different from the hitler youth/justfuckmyshitup undercut that you're showing in your picture too.

>tfw you get memedercut because it looks more masc
>tfw all the artsy str8 girls start wearing it to show how punk they are

>>6877697
I listed the specific brands in 3 because they all have sizes that run small and fit on female frames pretty easily as their smaller sizes. I wouldn't suggest buying them totally blind online, but odds are that they can work for you. I'm 5' and topman and uniqlo can both fit me alright. Oh and there's also specialty butch brands like http://saintharridan.com, but they're super expensive.

>>6877677
What shorter hair do you guys recommend for someone who looked like a retard in this hair? (and pixie cuts)

I look kinda good in slicked back hair but it's not something you can wear every day especially when you're lazy

I might be destined to look ugly no matter what I do tho

>>6877821
regular oval face btw

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>>6877821
>>6877821
its hard to say, since i dont actually know what you look like, your face shape, your hair type and texture, or WHY you looked off in that hair

>>6877716
>I don't think so, it looks like the tops on both of them are too long for that compared to the sides
thats because in the ones originally posted, its the 1:3 (sides:top) ratio, whereas in the pic i posted, the sides are way shorter

if you look at a high and tight or a military cut you'll see what i mean......
>>tfw all the artsy str8 girls start wearing it to show how punk they are
mmmm, yes i love fem cute girls with this hair cut, or short hair in general, god it is so hot

>>6877855
oh, if you're oval then anything should work.....maybe you needed to style it differently?

>>6877821
i was soft butch before i was ftm and wore my hair around chin length
look into male-style cuts that are 'medium' or 'long' by male standards, they're lower maintenance than fem cuts to deal with the lazy and if you live in a liberal area then the hairdressers won't give you a pixie cut my accident

>>6877887
*by accident, not my accident

>>6877311
>>6877182
Damn my bois, I really do hope I get over it (+ good luck to you) or at least not feel the need to get on T
I feel like we're making this thread too much about negative stuff, what about the positive side of being butch?
What's your favourite thing about it? Mine is making a statement just by existing and being myself, I come from a country where female masculinity is very very looked down upon, so it's nice to see other people (like my friends) stop thinking so negatively about homosexuality and breaking gender roles after they meet me and see I'm a person just like them.

>>6872984
but...butt..
I want a cool butch lez to bro it up with, eat till her legs go numb then savagely yet lovingly fuck raw and creampie.

You know as friends, till she gets a steady girlfriend or something.

Is that so wrong?

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Why is she so perfect bros ;_;

>>6877612
Is that Lauren Zuke's comic?

>>6878545
I got cable so I could watch her show in HD. NOT ASHAMED.

>tfw some limp dick idiot Republican says something stupid and she does that thing with her eyebrows

>>6878353
I'm not gonna lie... I'd do this
t. biscum in denial

>>6878025
>I feel like we're making this thread too much about negative stuff, what about the positive side of being butch? What's your favourite thing about it?

I think for me it's being able to act like myself. I guess that's sort of tautological, but if I were trying to be femme or even present in a sort-of-masculine-but-still-female way it would feel super fake. Being butch is just me being me and not putting up a front. Obviously this is my personality affecting how I feel about it and not a universal principle, but that's the biggest pro to me.

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>Tfw I gained 100lb because my thyroid gave out, and I'm having to work my ass off to get back into a body shape that looks androgynous in a /good/ way.

These threads are serious inspo, though.

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>>6879183
>I gained 100lb because my thyroid gave out
>100 fucking lbs
>thyroid
Fatty likes to eat

>>6878465
Someone named Anna makes them (don't remember their full name) and they post on Autostraddle's sunday morning comics sometimes.

>>6880636

That's not how thyroid illnesses work, anon.

If it was, I wouldn't have gained weight. Food is disgusting.

It's kind of funny. Thyroid cancer is one of the only cancers where people regularly tell you "Oh, that couldn't possibly do major damage to your body without you doing something to make it worse."

>>6881802
Are you on T3 or T4?

>>6881802
You didn't just gain weight, you added a whole person to your body. Metabolic changes don't account for all that. Mass is not created from nothing.

>>6878353
I hate that you exist

>>6881870
That's what your mom said when you forced yourself out of her funhole