USS John S. McCain collides with merchant ship near Strait of Malacca

Well that's going to cause a tumor.

>>34925561

Like senator like ship!

>>34925561
As a side note, both Fitzgerald and McCain are the same squadron based in Japan

>>34925561
how fucking hard is it to not hit other boats in the ocean?...wtf is going on

it's fucking pathetic. they still haven't lifted the emcon rules despite what already happened. yet again they'll toss a bunch of junior officers and sailors under the bus and pretend that the brass aren't totally retarded.

ordering ships to motor blind in heavily trafficed sea zones is completely insane

>>34925581
>>34925583
>thinking this is clever
It's not named after the senator you mongs.

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The problem is systemic. This is the fourth major incident in 7th fleet since Feb. This is from years of neglect, defunding, understaffed, undereducated and overworked crews.

they had no steering minutes before impact? is this the russians?

>>34925920
your right the senator is actually name after the ship in this case.

This is why the Air Force keeps getting a bigger budget.

How the fuck do ships collide with each other?

I mean, it's understandable that there are some traffic accidents, but you never see a tank or humvee crashing into another car.

The ocean is endlessly bigger than an avenue and ships cruise at half the speed of cars.

So what is the excuse?

how the fuck does mccain already have a boat named after him?

>>34928176
>So what is the excuse?
Everyone in the 7th Fleet is literally retarded.

>>34928176
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11645219/British-tank-crushes-German-teenage-learners-car.html
???
Not that I am excusing ships colliding

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>>34928173
Because, much to the disgust of the Navy, the last time it fucked up seriously was 10 years ago, and, unlike the Navy, is actually useful in the kind of wars we've been fighting for the last 15?

>>34928185
It's named after his faggot, admiral, dad not the faggot, treasonous, senator.

>>34928185
GHWB had a boat named after him.

>>34928176
>The ocean is endlessly bigger than an avenue and ships cruise at half the speed of cars.
Despite the oceans size, most ships travel along routes. Airplanes do this too, it's to normalize when they arrive at ports.
Also ships move pretty fast, and stopping them is an absolute bitch. Imagine something 1000x heavier than a car going 40mph having to stop without throwing everyone on deck into the ocean.

>>34928190
>Our most advanced fleet to counter China in the west Pacific
>4 (FOUR) major incidents in a fucking year

>>34928206
And it'd be really funny if it was sunk before he dies.

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>>34928206
>boat
>had

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>>34928214
Beyond the collisions, what were the other two?

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>>34925561
mfw USN is actually really fucking smart and tricking their enemies into changing their doctrine to have babies full of container ships
Then in the event of total war enemy fleets paint up real well on radar as they are all huge fuck off container ships with VLS and a five inch gun up foread for lulz
Well played USN ......... Well played ......

>>34928254
USS Antietam ran aground in Tokyo Bay
USS Lake Champlain collided with a South Korean fishing boat (no casualties)

>>34928254
Not him but they recently ran a destroyer aground in Tokyo Bay. The fourth one I dunno.

>>34928260
Navies *

>>34925561
Burgers on suicide watch

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>US navy now as bad as poo-in-blue navy

this is india tier amount collisions
i bet trump did this

Well that is embarrassing. If some brass heads don't roll after this one then something is really amiss.

>>34928319
India superpower confirmed.
The memes were true after all.

>>34925723
But the brass got fired last time

>Ten sailors missing, five injured
Getting better, i see....

>>34927865
even if they didnt had steering its a fucking destroyer its much much agile the fact that this shit happened again against a tanker shows that they are a bunch of idiots if they cant avoid a big ass ship that the turn radius is bigger than a city they need to get fired no questions asked

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Is this no longer required reading in the Navy?

Thanks Obama.

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Petition to rename the 7th Fleet to "2nd Pacific Squadron"

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>>34928176
Like >>34928212 said, ships use shipping routes. If you try to cross a shipping route at the wrong time, shit goes down. Pic related is a map of shipping lanes.
A supertanker has a stopping distance of 20-25 miles, yes MILES. They have a turning circle of 10-20 miles as well.

Normally, powerboats give way to sailboats but having done a fair bit of sailing I've always been told to keep well away from shipping lanes and big, commercial ships, because laws of right of way don't change the laws of physics. They don't want to hit you, they simply can't stop the ship.

In the rare event that we had to cross a shipping lane, we did so in full daylight and on a day with good visibility, and everyone was out on deck keeping a lookout for ships coming our way.

>Burgers BTFO by merchant ship

>Flight I Burke damaged
>still makes it to port under own power
meh

>>34928219
>English grammar
>Hy, пoгoди!

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us navy is drunk lately

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>>34928176
The problem is that the collision regulations are great in theory, but in practice collision avoidance is an art, not a science. When you've got loads of ships in an area, there may be times where you have to go against what the regs say in order to not collide; going to port instead of starboard to avoid a vessel in order to create a safer situation after it has passed.

When you stick rigidly to the rules, or take too long to make a decision, that's when it's a problem. Keep in mind that Asian waters tend to be busy as fuck too.

Also, I can say from experience that being in open water, you can see no other vessels for days, and then the first one you see is on a collision course. It just happens that way. A lot of vessels collide in open ocean with nothing around because the watchkeeper wasn't expecting anything and was working on something else instead.

I was in the merchant navy for a good few years, and I've got an unlimited officer of the watch ticket.

>Best Navy in history they said
>Unparalleled Naval competence they said
>Can't move out of the way of cargo ships despite having an entire ocean to play with.

What did they mean by this?

>>34929025
>A supertanker has a stopping distance of 20-25 miles, yes MILES. They have a turning circle of 10-20 miles as well.

This isn't really true. I don't have a picture of our maneuvering characteristics but they were nowhere near as far as that. Even if they were, that would be assuming that stopping is from just stopping the engines, when in reality you switch to full astern (then have engineers bitch at you).

>>34928194
That's a lot more understandable though.

>Column of tanks rolling through a quiet German road
>Suddenly learner driver suicide turns into the road not looking where he's going.

Compared to that, this is incredibly incompetent. Where was the watch? What was the bridge up to?

>>34929113
>switch to full astern
I've heard this comes with risks of losing prop and propshaft, so it's not really done. Emergency slowing down would be turning port to starboard and zig-zagging to reduce the distance travelled "as the crow flies" as it were.

They still can't turn for shit and if they're in a dredged channel with draft restrictions on either side this method isn't possible.

>>34929121
>Where was the watch? What was the bridge up to?

I'm 99% sure that this is a "too many cooks" situation where there were so many people on the bridge nobody was making decisions on what action to take.

>>34926189
>overworked
Don't USN ships not even have full staffing at night?

>>34929084
>collision avoidance is an art, not a science.
how fucking hard is it to stay in your lane? There's even buoys and shit to mark them and everything.

>you have to go against what the regs say in order to not collide;
except regs specifically state that you do whatever you can to avoid collision and that the regs are there to normalize responses so that ships won't both turn the same way and still be in a collision situation so obviously youve never even TOUCHED col regs

>>34929132
>nobody was making decisions on what action to take
ummm what is an OOW??? fuck off

>>34929131
>and if they're in a dredged channel
they should be keeping to the right just like when you drive a car, this is LITERALLY on par with retards who go the wrong way down the highway

>>34929131
That's true, but presumably if you're needing to stop that fast there's a reason. In open waters you just go hard over, usually to starboard. You'll not find many watchkeepers who haven't at some point had to do a round turn because of a near collision.

In terms of channels, they should have CBD signals up so other vessels avoid impeding.

Is US becoming Brazil-tier?

>>34929139
>how fucking hard is it to stay in your lane? There's even buoys and shit to mark them and everything.

What? You think that the entire ocean and all waterways are a TSS? Fuck no. Once you're out of port in a place like China it immediately turns into absolute chaos.

>except regs specifically state that you do whatever you can to avoid collision and that the regs are there to normalize responses so that ships won't both turn the same way and still be in a collision situation so obviously youve never even TOUCHED col regs

Yeah, that's my fucking point. They tell you exactly what you should do. The problem is that people DON'T do that. You can be a fucking idiot and say "well I'm the give way vessel so I'll go to starboard into this fleet of fishing vessels because that's what the rules say", or you can do what literally every competent watchkeeper would do and go to port instead, probably after calling them on the VHF.

Colregs are made primarily as a way to sort out legal disputes after collisions have happened. Aside from that, the give way vessel goes to starboard, and everything else is played by ear.

Do you think at anchor in restricted visibility we still "at intervals of not more than one minute ring the bell rapidly for about 5 seconds. In a vessel of 100 metres or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel."

>>34928176
there's really no excuse for it. ships are ponderous things but they're also incredibly easy to see, everyone has a VHF radio so you're in constant contact if you ever wanna call up a ship to ask what they intend to do, and there's a giant international book of safety rules (collision regulations) that give you instructions on which way to turn and shit if you are in a situation where you might hit someone (most commonly either you coming directly at another ship in a traffic lane, or coming across a ferry or something that's crossing a river/bay/etc instead of going up or down it)

the only real "art" over "science" bit of it is professional courtesy; if you're a military vessel putting around near some ferries, you have places to go and shit to do and weigh a gorillion tons and have the stopping distance of a small planet and are in a marked lane and have all the reason in the world to be the vessel with right-of-way, but in the real world you'd come down in speed or divert to let the ferries go because it's rude to fuck up people's commutes.

but this is not one of those cases, it's probably gonna come out that that the US ship was just being retarded and half the bridge was asleep or couldn't read a radar screen. or just look out the fucking window

>>34929163
>or just look out the fucking window

This tends to be a big one.

Also, I feel bad for the merchant vessel in these situations, because the military vessels just don't show up on the radar. I was in the English channel when it was restricted vis and two destroyers appeared out of fucking nowhere, you couldn't see them on the radar until they were right there, I saw them visually before the radar did.

>>34929159
> The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) was involved in a collision with the merchant vessel Alnic MC while underway east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca on Aug. 21.

>Singapore and the Strait of Malacca

>merchant vessel

99.9% probability they were in a lane

>or you can do what literally every competent watchkeeper would do and go to port instead,
wtf in most cases you should be seeing other ships red-to-red and it's what most people expect to happen

also,
>Do you think at anchor in restricted visibility we still "at intervals of not more than one minute ring the bell rapidly for about 5 seconds. In a vessel of 100 metres or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel."
yes and I have never been on a ship that, in fog, doesn't do that

there's even a fucking switch for it on the bridge to do it automatically on most ships


>le just play it by ear, ids a art, le warfightres r bess @ seas, juss divert 2 wherever:^)
you're a real retard and I hope you aren't allowed to even drive a car, let alone ever advise an OOW on where to go when there's other boats playing around

>>34929173
there's a saying along the lines of
>"The biggest hazard in the water is anything gray with numbers on the side."

>>34929139
>how fucking hard is it to stay in your lane?
It can actually be quite difficult, water moves around and ships move around on it due to winds. You're starting to sound very arrogant and uninformed.
>they should be keeping to the right
Absolutely, but if you look at the image it's pretty obvious that the Navy ship has been T-boned by the tanker, in other words it got in the tankers way. Doesn't matter if you keep left or right if a ship suddenly decides to pull up right in front of you.

>>34929173
>military vessels just don't show up on the radar
I've never had the misfortune to cross paths with a military ship at sea, but this must be a huge issue. Why don't they hoist/mount radar reflectors when they're in a busy area?

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>>34929183
I guess that's why I've got my OOW unlimited then, and a 1st in my maritime degree.

No, though, you should go to China. Go to the areas where there's hundreds of vessels. Where there are a fishing boats that will actively try to get in your way so you don't hit your nets. You go there, and you follow the rules to the letter. Then go and explain to the Chinese government why you ploughed through a fishing boat.

The same with the malacca strait. Have you ever been there? It's hell. You're acting like it's the same as the Dover strait where everyone does what they should do and everything's fine. That's not the case.

>>34929185
>water moves around
wow what if you, I dunno, trained your bosn and officers to maintain track instead of just having naps and banging cabin boys when they're on watch?

>>34929185
>Why don't they hoist/mount radar reflectors when they're in a busy area?
some do and from what I've seen on CF ships, they CONSTANTLY call in to checkpoints on traffic and basically any vessel they can see is going to be called up to ask what side they want to overtake/be overtaken on. Depending on where you are, if there's a traffic station, they also generally advise ships of any traffic that might bother them.

>T-boned
they probably did divert the wrong way and got smashed in the side for it.

>>34929190
>I guess that's why I've got my OOW unlimited then,
I guess that's why the USN keeps crashing ships!!

>>34929190
>y-you werent there man, you weren't even there!
this is
this is truly pathetic

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>need to cross shipping lane
>decide an hour before sunrise is the best time to do it
>drive out in front of a tanker five times your own displacement
>y arnt dey stoppin for 'merikan navey vessel?
>pic related

new nork plan to win battle in the pacific.
> steadily ram a ship into every single ship in 7th fleet.
> laugh as murricucks have to spend hundreds of billions putting them into drydock for half a year.
>invade and muder guam and Philippines while entire USN is in drydock due to being unable to not be hit by merchant ships
this is now the best possible battleplan to beat USN AShM's are overrated

>>34929211
Making up non-sense green text doesn't make him any less correct.

>>34929190
>Where there are a fishing boats that will actively try to get in your way so you don't hit your nets. You go there, and you follow the rules to the letter.
Yeah you call them up, say you'll go around them on their [whatever appropriate] side, because they're fishing boats and are the stand-on vessel because they are engaged in a work activity.

Jeez Louise americans are stupid. Leave it to a fucking yankee to think col regs would say "yeah just plow through fishing vessels!"

>be American sailor
>CO decides he should show off his big metal dick to neighbouring vessels
>die
>only risk to CO is losing source of income or a few months of productivity

Friendly reminder that enlisted are not even subhuman

Professional mariner here.
Prior usn and now merchant sailor.

Having a great giggle at how dumb most of you sound :D

>>34929235
>Yeah you call them up
>Calling up Chink fishing vessels

>>34929225
yeah you can't get less correct than Actually Completely Wrong

>>34928219
Ayyyy. I'm a plankowner on that

>>34929241
>SOUTH CHINA SEA - The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) was involved in a collision with the merchant vessel Alnic MC while underway east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca on Aug. 21.

>a Singaporean tanker would ignore calls from a Destroyer that's l i t e r a l l y about to ram it

>>34929241

Have you considered NOT hitting other ships? I know it's hard, but it's a fishing boat, it's practically stationary. You're not always the stand-on vessel just because you're military.

In fact, it's usually the opposite, you're not actually doing anything so you're almost never the stand-on vessel, ships at anchor or that are engaged in work aren't obliged to get out of your way, you're obliged to either go around them or slow down to keep pace if they're moving and it's unsafe to overtake.

>>34929235
>call chink fishing boat
>Fishing Vessel ChingChong this is US Navy vessel Nimitz, we will be going around you on your port side, over.
>CHINA NUMBAH ONE
>*sound of chinaman slamming down handset*

>>34929255
As I said earlier, chinese fishing boats will actively try to get in your way, because they want you to not go through their nets. I'm well aware of what the rules are regarding fishing vessels, my point is that you can't follow them when you're there.

I don't know why you're assuming I'm military.

>>34929258
>*sound of chinaman slamming down handset*
Kek, this really made the image in my head

>>34929252
>from a destroyer that's l i t e r a l l y about to ram it
It's pretty obvious from the pictures that the tanker rammed the destroyer, not the other way around.

I'm fairly sure the destroyer just got in the tanker's way and it wasn't able to stop or turn in time (or they were all drunk and asleep, destroyer still shouldn't have been in front of a 50000 ton oil tanker)

>crash your ship into a merchant vessel
>get promoted for it
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=101980

maybe this new incident is a clever ruse

>>34929258
>>"Fishing Vessel ChingChong this is US Navy vessel Nimitz, we will be going around you on your port side, over."
>proceed to strike fishing vessel anyway

>>34929270
im betting the us ship saw it coming ahead and did a bad turn because yankees are retarded

This is why we need battleships again.

>>34929296
>re-activate the Iowa

>crash it into a lighthouse

>John McCain
HAH
DRAIN THE SWAMP

>>34928176
>humvee crashing into a car

actually i live by a marine base and that shit happened, marine fell asleep while driving went across the median and hit a small car head on. killed the lady in the car, practically zero damage to the humvee. same base also had a bulldozer drive over a marine in a fox hole in the middle of the night in the middle of a training field. shit happens that don't make the news dude.

>>34929297
Iowa vs Seawise Giant

Who would win?

>>34929214
That's a big dent

>>34926189
>defunding
It's a damn shame the US has had the lowest military budget running some it's entering the world stage. How many times did this happy back before radar when sailors were paid in the riches of the ships they plundered?

>>34929523
4

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From the Chinese internet.

>>34929214
Why are they pumping the water right back into the hole! Pump it AWAY

>>34929536
kek

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>>34929536

>>34929524
this is why you should have voted for ron paul

he wanted to bring back letters of marque

>>34929549
china "cargo ship" should be in quotes too, since half of all those containers are full of AShMs, and the other half are full of sleeper agents

>>34929523
for u

>>34929554

I'm fairly certain that there would be container or two toys painted with poisonous paint.

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>>34929275
Admiral Halsey drove the 3rd Fleet into a typhoon in 1944. 3 destroyers sank and nearly 800 sailors died. Following a short court of inquiry, Halsey returned to the fleet. Three days later he then drove into a second typhoon killing 6 and destroying nearly 100 aircraft.

Could be worse.

>>34929608
Is this why the US absolutely refuses, by executive order, to ever sail anywhere above sea state 3?

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>>34925561

Try to focus again in actual navy shit rather than rape classes, equality and promoting minorities.

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>>34929296
No.

>be American
>CRASHING THIS SHIP

Malaysian and Singaporean Navies in the region are helping in the search. Malaysian here praying for US sailors to be found alive. Please be tactful. While it's fun to belittle the US Navy, real lives are in peril.

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>>34929608
>Could be worse.

In terms of lost ships Honda Point disaster was worse.

>The fourteen ships of Destroyer Squadron 11 (DESRON 11) were steaming south from San Francisco Bay to San Diego Bay on September 8, 1923. The squadron was led by Commodore Edward H. Watson, on the flagship destroyer USS Delphy. All were Clemson-class destroyers, less than five years old. The ships turned east to course 095, supposedly heading into the Santa Barbara Channel, at 21:00. The ships were navigating by dead reckoning, estimating positions from their course and speed, as measured by propeller revolutions per minute. At that time radio navigation aids were new and not completely trusted. The USS Delphy was equipped with a radio navigation receiver, but her navigator and captain ignored its indicated bearings, believing them to be erroneous. No effort was made to take soundings of water depths due to the necessity of slowing the ships down to take the measurements. The ships were performing an exercise that simulated wartime conditions, hence the decision was made not to slow down. In this case, the dead reckoning was wrong, and the mistakes were fatal. Despite the heavy fog, Commodore Watson ordered all ships to travel in close formation and, turning too soon, went aground. Six others followed and sank. Two ships whose captains disobeyed the close-formation order survived, although they also hit the rocks.

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Cont..>>34929733

>The lost ships were:

>USS Delphy (DD-261) was the flagship in the column. She ran aground on the shore at 20 knots (37 km/h). After running aground, she sounded her siren. The siren alerted some of the later ships in the column, helping them avoid the tragedy. Three men died. Eugene Dooman, a State Department expert on Japan, who survived, was aboard as a guest of Captain Watson, whom he had met in Japan.
>USS S. P. Lee (DD-310) was following a few hundred yards behind. She saw the Delphy suddenly stop, and turned to port (left) in response. As a result, she ran aground on the coast.
>USS Young (DD-312) made no move to turn. She tore her hull open on submerged rocks, and the inrush of water capsized her onto her starboard side. Twenty men died.
>USS Woodbury (DD-309) turned to starboard, but struck an offshore rock.
>USS Nicholas (DD-311) turned to port and also hit a rock.
>USS Fuller (DD-297) stuck next to the Woodbury.
>USS Chauncey (DD-296) made an attempt to rescue sailors from the capsized Young. She ran aground.

>Light damage was recorded by:

>USS Farragut (DD-300) ran aground, but was able to extricate herself and was not lost.
>USS Somers (DD-301) was lightly damaged.

>The remaining five ships avoided the rocks:

>USS Percival (DD-298)
>USS Kennedy (DD-306)
>USS Paul Hamilton (DD-307)
>USS Stoddert (DD-302)
>USS Thompson (DD-305)

>>34929691
im not reading all that autist shit without some summary first of what it's even addressing.

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>Seconds after impact, Sailors in Berthing 2 started yelling “Water on deck!” and “Get out!” One Sailor saw another knocked out of his rack by water. Others began waking up shipmates who had slept through the initial impact. At least one Sailor had to be pulled from his rack and into the water before he woke up.

>The occupants of Berthing 2 described a rapidly flooding space, estimating later that the space was nearly flooded within a span of 30 to 60 seconds. By the time the third Sailor to leave arrived at the ladder, the water was already waist deep. Debris, including mattresses, furniture, an exercise bicycle, and wall lockers, floated into the aisles between racks in Berthing 2, impeding Sailors’ ability to get down from their racks and their ability to exit the space.

>The last Sailor to be pulled from Berthing 2 was in the bathroom at the time of the collision and a flood of water knocked him to the deck. Lockers were floating past him and he scrambled across them towards the main berthing area. At one point he was pinned between the lockers and the ceiling of Berthing 2, but was able to reach for a pipe in the ceiling to pull himself free. He made his way to the only light he could see, which was coming from the port side watertight scuttle. He was swimming towards the watertight scuttle when he was pulled from the water, red-faced and with bloodshot eyes. He reported that when taking his final breath before being saved, he was already submerged and breathed in water.

>One Sailor escaped via the starboard side of Berthing 2. After the collision, this Sailor tried to leave his rack, the top rack in the row nearest to the starboard access trunk, but inadvertently kicked someone, so he crawled back into his rack and waited until he thought everyone else would be out of the Berthing 2. When he jumped out of his rack a few seconds later, the water nearly reached his top bunk, already chest high and rising.

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>>34929764
>He moved through the lounge furniture and against the incoming sea. Someone said “go, go, go, it’s blocked,” but he was already underwater. He was losing his breath under the water but found a small pocket of air. After a few breaths in the small air pocket, he eventually took one final breath and swam. He lost consciousness at this time and does not remember how he escaped from Berthing 2, but he ultimately emerged from the flooding into Berthing 1, where he could stand to his feet and breathe. He climbed Berthing 1’s egress ladder, through Berthing 1’s open watertight scuttle and collapsed on the Main Deck. He was the only Sailor to escape through the starboard egress point.

>The flooding of Berthing 2 resulted in the deaths of seven FITZGERALD Sailors. The racks of these seven Sailors were located in Rows 3 and 4, the area closest to the starboard access trunk and egress point and directly in the path of the onrushing water

>The CO was in his cabin at the time of the collision. The CRYSTAL’s bow directly struck his cabin, located above the waterline. The impact severely damaged his cabin, trapping him inside. The CO called the bridge requesting assistance.

>Five Sailors used a sledgehammer, kettlebell, and their bodies to break through the door into the CO’s cabin, remove the hinges, and then pry the door open enough to squeeze through. Even after the door was open, there was a large amount of debris and furniture against the door, preventing anyone from entering or exiting easily.

>A junior officer and two chief petty officers removed debris from in front of the door and crawled into the cabin. The skin of the ship and outer bulkhead were gone and the night sky could be seen through the hanging wires and ripped steel. The rescue team tied themselves together with a belt in order to create a makeshift harness as they retrieved the CO, who was hanging from the side of the ship.

>>34929749
>>34929753
It's interesting that such relatively simple mistakes like that seem to be so common throughout history.

This particular incident could possibly be the genesis of the USN traditionally discharging any Captain/Commander whose ship runs aground, regardless of damage sustained. They've been known to also sue those that they think were negligent or incompetent so they don't have to pay their pensions which is kinda bullshit.

>>34929757
armor makes impacts even worse and can break a ship in half as it's high hardness makes it brittle

>>34929131
>They still can't turn for shit and if they're in a dredged channel with draft restrictions on either side this method isn't possible.
they can turn in their own radius
>what are bow and stern thrusters

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>>34929608
There is also Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Melbourne_(R21)
>never fired a shot in anger during her career
>ammed and sank the RAN destroyer HMAS Voyager when the latter altered course across her bow. Eighty-two of Voyager's personnel were killed,
>Melbourne also rammed the United States Navy (USN) destroyer USS Frank E. Evans in similar circumstances. Seventy-four American personnel died
>On 5 December 1976, a fire at the Naval Air Station HMAS Albatross destroyed or heavily damaged 12 of the Fleet Air Arm's 13 S-2E Trackers
>Over the course of her career, over thirty aircraft were either lost or heavily damaged while operating from Melbourne.
>sold for scrap in 1985 and towed to China for breaking. The scrapping was delayed so Melbourne could be studied by the People's Liberation Army Navy

>>34929797
ok great why are you posting that, literally who was talking about literally anything that has anything to do with that you dumb piece of yankee shit

>>34929799
>bow thrusters
name even ONE (1) ship that actually has bow thrusters

but seriously, it's hardly a common feature, even movable let alone independently turning props arent super common

>>34929799
Yes of course, when they're stationary. Not while they're moving (which was what we were discussing, hence the "emergency slowing down").

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>>34929807
>name even ONE (1) ship that actually has bow thrusters

Uhh what? It's extremely common. Perhaps not on supertankers due to their retarded hull shape but on anything else it is.

Here's a picture of some nope to a) prove you wrong and b) give people in here the creeps

>>34929831
wtf thats not a bow thruster thats some kind of inlet

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>>34929807
>name even ONE (1) ship that actually has bow thrusters

Literally a standard feature in almost all big ships.

>but seriously, it's hardly a common feature, even movable let alone independently turning props arent super common

KEKEKKEKEKEKEKEKEKKEKEKEKEEKEK

>>34929807
>literally who was talking about literally anything that has anything to do with that

nigga, the guy that replied with that pic was replying to some retard talking about MUH BBS!!!

>yank

wrong hemisphere cunt

>>34929841
those are inlets for jet-style propulstion systems (as opposed to the classic screw)
>KEKEKKEKEKEKEKEKEKKEKEKEKEEKEK
nigga do those look moveable

also
>still trying to defend the USN for constantly crashing into slow-moving tankers

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>>34929837
No, it's a bow thruster. If it were an inlet there wouldn't be daylight on both sides.

>>34929844
>MUH BBS!!!
I figured he was making a joke about the sheer size of them "winning" collisions with the tankers the USN keeps trying to make out with, kinda like how american soccer moms always get giant tank-like SUVs to "win" collisions instead of just not driving like cunts who collide with stuff in the first place

>>34929860
>implying that's only american women

get outside you dumb cunt, i see that shit all the time here

>>34929857
it's still not a common feature and tankers are ponderous as fuck

keep trying to defend the us navy for crashing into shit every day tho, its real hard to turn right instead of left, huh

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>>34929849
>do those look moveable
Most ships have previously used bow and stern thrusters instead of Azimuthing thrusters, pic related

>>34929807
>but seriously, it's hardly a common feature, even movable let alone independently turning props arent super common
ive seen sub 60ft canal boats that have bow thrusters

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>>34929807
>but seriously, it's hardly a common feature, even movable let alone independently turning props arent super common

Almost all modern ships with exception of warships have azimuth thruster as well as fucking bow thrusters.

>>34929837
>wtf thats not a bow thruster thats some kind of inlet

Are you retarded?

>>34929876
ive seen a lot of boats and not one that has had a bow thruster, even moveable thrusters is pretty exotic

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>>34929849
>>34929875
But Azimuthing thrusters (or a combination of regular shaft drives and azimuth drives) are becoming more common as diesel electric drivetrains are increasing in popularity.

>>34929884
>But Azimuthing thrusters are becoming more common as diesel electric drivetrains are increasing in popularity.
true but the reality is that most big ships are real fuckin' old and for whatever reason shipping companies are hemorrhaging money and probably not willing to buy new ships or upgrade their fleets

If tankers are so maneuverable, why didn't the Liberian People's Army Alnic MC just do a sicc drift around the Senator John McCain Deep n' Delicious Destroyer?

>>34929881
I don't know if you mean boats or ships, most boats (pleasure kind) have bow thrusters these days since it vastly increases manoeuvrability. Our 39 ft sailboat had a bow thruster.

Any ship that might need to dock on its own (read:without tug support) will have bow thrusters, so that means most of the ships in the world. I think the burden of proof lies on you here pal. Bow thrusters aren't a new thing, they're usually just an electric motor or in the case of these bigger ships a hydraulic motor. Not advanced tech at all.

>>34929900
>(read:without tug support)
I have never once seen a ship berth without a tug desu

the only times I've seen it happen have been CF ships and they're both quite small and tend to have very ballsy and prideful officers

>Bow thrusters aren't a new thing,
of course they're not new, but they're more expensive than the alternative and most ships are bought by firms that give more of a shit about cost effectiveness than ripping shit around the bay

>Our 39 ft sailboat had a bow thruster.
oh so you mean your private pleasure craft has new and nice features? you dont fucking say

they crashed into a singaporean tanker with home port in liberia, not King Schlomo Van Nurinaki's private yacht

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>>34929887
>most big ships are real fuckin' old
Data says otherwise

>>34929913
>that scale
also over 20 is middle age for a ship, that's a good typical paid off age.

also
>you're still arguing that a fucking tanker should out-turn a destroyer
the usn is doomed if they have such feeble ships

>>34929881
i dont think you have

>>34929900
ive been on quite a few ships, (my dads a naval architect) and literally all of them have some form of DP(dynamic positioning system)
granted, these are almost always offshore vessels that need to remain in fixed locations but thats why they usually get the top of the line DP azimuths etc
heck, some of them are even able to remain on their docking position without anchors or mooring lines
they have to because of legal reasons, but still

>>34929922
>you're still arguing that a fucking tanker should out-turn a destroyer
Where did I say that? I'm arguing that most ships have bow thrusters. I'm not the guy saying they should be using bow thrusters to make high-speed turns, I'm >>34929808

HAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

>USS Fitzgerald collides with a cargo ship
>Navy F/A-18E shoots down Syrian jet days later
>USS John S. McCain collides with merchant ship
>what do USN??

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>>34929911
>oh so you mean your private pleasure craft has new and nice features?
That's why I said I wasn't sure if you were talking about boats or ships anymore. Boats are boats, ships are ships. There's a vast difference. If you were talking about ships in this post >>34929881 it's wrong. If you were talking about boats it's VERY wrong.

Pic related: It's a ship carrying boats.

>>34929928
maybe you shouldnt associate with retards like >>34929799 then who say shit like
>they can turn in their own radius
and then go on to argue about how every ship has bow thrusters and has these super tight turning radaii (when they dont)

>>34929940
>discussing tankers and destroyers
>HURRR R U TALKIN BOUT ZODIACS????
the goalpoasts, the rocket

>>34929930

There's more actually

>This marked the fourth mishap for U.S. Navy ships in the Pacific since February.

>Aside from the USS McCain and USS Fitgerald incidents, the Navy crusier USS Antietam ran aground dumping over 1,000 gallons of oil in Tokyo Bay in Februray. In May, another cruiser, USS Lake Champlain, hit a South Korean fishing vessel.

>>34929925
>literally all of them have some form of DP

Yeah, the advances that have been made with diesel-electric drivetrains and azimuthing thrusters is incredible, and what the can do with the precise GPS we have today is extraordinary. I was aboard a support vessel in Norway that did exactly what you're talking about; it stayed a few meters away from the dock using GPS and compass readings. It was amazing watching the position of the thrusters on the screen and how they were turning on/off to keep the ship in place.

>>34929768
>The CO called the bridge requesting assistance.
Good, straight thin-
>as they retrieved the CO, who was hanging from the side of the ship.
That's nuts

>>34929948
>associate with
I'm arguing against his statement...

>argue about how every ship has bow thrusters
I'm not, I don't make blanket statements like that. In fact, if we go back and look I'm arguing against just such a statement here
>>34929807
>name even ONE (1) ship that actually has bow thrusters

>zodiacs
No, again, you seemed to be confusing ships and boats, so I thought I'd help you understand what the difference is (broadly speaking)

>>34929950
what if the norks are paying foreign captains to slowly disable the USN?

>>34929963
>you seemed to be confusing ships and boats,
no, again,
>>discussing tankers and destroyers
>>HURRR R U TALKIN BOUT ZODIACS????
>the goalpoasts, the rocket

>>34929950
hahahahahahahahahahahahha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

holy shit

ok what is the actual problem with the usn, this is insane to be having so many incidents, mostly in the pacific region, there must be some actual reason that the fleet, or at least this part of it, is so bad at basic driving

>>34928260

I don't think all the CBG has enough harpoons to sink the world's merchant fleet and enemy ships, which blend in perfectly

>>34930008
>What is emissions detection

>>34929807
>Name even ONE ship that has bow thrusters

Every Coast Guard cutter

>>34930036
the various coast guards of the world mysteriously have more money than god and higher technology than BAHRAM, they don't count

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>>34930055
>USCG
>money

Payback for Hiroshima

>>34929966
Even if this were true, Destroyers shouldn't get hit by container ships if they're paying attention.

>>34929887
>true but the reality is that most big ships are real fuckin' old and for whatever reason shipping companies are hemorrhaging money and probably not willing to buy new ships or upgrade their fleets

How it is possible to be as wrong on everything as you are? Shipping companies buy new ships because those are cheaper to operate due to increased automation and fuel efficiency. Older ships generally require more maintenance, due to that those are more often out of service, not making money for the company.

>>34929994
I know that retention rates are actually pretty shitty right now in the USN. They can't seem to keep a good chunk of people with experience for a long time. The constant high tempo, long deployments, and budgetary cuts in past years has made working in the Navy really draining.

The 2014 retention study for examples notes that 90% of enlisted at most get 6 hours of sleep usually. 60% of them get like 5 or less.

>>34929801
>Fate: Sold for scrap

It hurts a little to read this.

>>34930155
>The 2014 retention study for examples notes that 90% of enlisted at most get 6 hours of sleep usually. 60% of them get like 5 or less.
thats interesting, what's the watch rotation like? I thought they do that 5 on, 5 off, 7 on, 7 off thing, which allows for a lot of naptime (if you are willing to get fat and never watch an entire movie in one sitting)

maybe they should bring back drinking on ships, or at least carrying booze to sell in port. are there good "intangebles" like that in the USN, like good messes, heavy contact with civilian contractors, other skill-building than just military stuff or formal schooling, etc.?

>>34929239
Please give us a quick rundown on who's at fault in this situation

>overworked

I can't see how, since the USN takes a one person job and splits it into jobs for four individuals.

It's far more likely that they're underworked and complacent. The American corporate culture of "be seen to be doing something and talk about it a lot" seems to have crept in. Instead of getting one guy to do something mundane for 18 hours, train him to do the full package properly and there will be no time for busy work.

>>34930082
How many flips were in Hiroshima?

The Chinese hacked the US ships, but it was all apart of the USN plan to get unscheduled upgrades masterminded by Huntington Ingalls to raise their stock by 4% completing the sole objective of the jewish banks on wallstreet to raise their portfolio values enough to fund the complete demolition of Palestine.

Entire USN now on operational pause and review
https://twitter.com/USNavy/status/899647899264483328

this is china's area of dominion now. bye now u.s. (100yrs?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2t4rYHKhoc

LOL

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>>34931056
kek

>/k/ gives china shit for crashing mass produced military vehicles
>the us navy crashes 7 one of a kind ships, /k/ says nothing

>>34928194
Toyota Increases Safety Test Standards

Man, what is wrong with 7th fleet? Hopefully this prompts a serious overview of whatever's gone wrong with training and readiness out there. Very embarrassing, but better to be embarrassed in peacetime than wartime, I suppose.

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Again?
Hmmmmm?

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>>34930182
This is the fate of 99% of ships

>>34930980
Hurry Kim, this is your chance!

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>>34928137

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>>34925636
Its actually pretty hard, Anon.
Then again, for the Captain of a super modern Warship it should be manageable.

>>34931198
It's terrible to imagine some literally who brown people taking apart those ships.

>>34929113
Even a ULCC can do a Williamson turn inside of 5 miles. Container ships it's usually less than 3. RORO's are the worst with them barely able to meet the 5 mile mark when specifically loaded for sea trials. If you are wondering why I keep bringing up 5 miles it's because that is the maximum distance that ICAS has for sea trials. So ABS, DNV, or an other classification society will require that. If I was home I would post some documents from various trials I have been on. The worst is the 20 year yards where you have to unfuck 20 years of 'engineers' screwing with shit they don't understand.

>>34929131
Nope. You are more likely to run out of start air and pop some reliefs on the main if diesel.

This is becoming a meme of its own.
USN can't go out of goddamn harbor without colliding with some other vessel.

>>34931444
So much for most powerful Navy in the world

>>34929078
that pic hurts, anon

>>34929849
Tunnel thrusters are on virtually every ship larger than 1600 gross tonnes. They change pitch to reverse the thrust. They also will not do shit if you are going faster than 3 knots. LIPS is the largest maker of them.

>>34929900
No they are almost always electric motors. As most large vessels are going to have at least one tug escorting the bow thruster just makes it so you don't have two.

>>34931392
>The worst is the 20 year yards where you have to unfuck 20 years of 'engineers' screwing with shit they don't understand.

I've had the discussion with people before that marine "engineers" aren't engineers at all, they're glorified maintenance men. They're never too happy hearing that from a deckie.

>>34931642
They are not even that unless they learn on their own. They are operating engineers.

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>>34929768
>Five Sailors used a sledgehammer, kettlebell, and their bodies to break through the door into the CO’s cabin
WHATEVER IT TAKES GODDAMN IT

Just as an reminder, this is how fast a destroyer can change course.

https://youtu.be/mzveUz-WRGQ?t=49

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-crash-malaysia-idUSKCN1B1171

The Malaysians are running their own separate SAR operation from the US

>>34931888
It's probably for the best, they can't afford to replace a freshly rammed ship after sailing near the US Navy

Apparently, when there is a big ship, reef or other navigation hazard in your way, "FREEDUM OF NAVIGATION" doesn't really apply, even when you are the big bad USN.

>hurr durr China Navy so reckless/unprofessional/inexperienced
>US Navy FONOPs into reefs, container ships and oil tankers

The reddit analysts are saying that the crew on these ships are working on 2 or 3 hours of sleep a day for months at a time and that's why these obvious mistakes are happening.

Any value in that?

>>34928432
bigger brass than that. you know, deciding doctrine? this shit is happening because they're running dark in fucking shipping lanes and acting like they have the right of way.

>>34932242
Fuck off reddit shill

>>34925561
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

the utter state of the USN, what a joke

>>34932242
>2 or 3 hours of sleep a day for months at a time
Isn't that a form of torture?

Last I heard the navy was using a "five-and-dime" watch system, aka five hours on and ten hours off. If you can't get the recommended amount of sleep over a 24-hour period on that system you probably shouldn't be in the Navy.

>>34929544
>water from a dewatering pump working on spaces near a plugged hole/sealed watertight hatch is so much more dangerous than the billion times greater amount of water already in the ocean

Not sure if bait.

>>34932355
I believe the "five and dime" only applies to watches. You don't have the "dime" part free to do as you please. There's plenty of non-watch related work.

>>34929214
>I'm a very self-important united states navy ship comin' through and i demand you get out of my way!
>LOL I'm a lighthouse, your'e move navyman

>>34932355
That ten hours includes eating, hygiene, PT, qualifications, and most importantly, non-watch work (including paperwork). The average sailor would be lucky to average 5 hours of sleep that will be broken up by nonemergency announcements over the 1MC shipwide loudspeaker system.

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>>34931797
the report; https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3934451/Navy-Report-on-USS-Fitzgerald.pdf

>>34932242
complete horseshit. there are so many dicks aboard that everyone gets 12 hours off duty even during general quarters

>>34932545
Why are "Sailors" capitalized?

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>>34932554
>everyone gets 12 hours off duty even during general quarters

>>34932545
>Some of the Sailors who survived the flooding in Berthing 2 described a loud noise at the
time of impact. Other Berthing 2 Sailors felt an unusual movement of the ship or were thrown
from their racks. Still other Berthing 2 Sailors did not realize what had happened and remained
in their racks. Some of them remained asleep.
>Some of them remained asleep.
God damn

>>34932636
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_system
it is an old british custom. we're not fucking stupid and don't allow people to fuck up under exhuastion.
only the most critical conditions would warrant overttime (over 12 hours duty in a 24 hour day) aboard a US navy vessel like chopper crews that have to continuously switch watches. on ship dogged watches allow for everyone to have 12 hours off duty.
>responding to an anime fag poster

>US Navy pausing all operations

Does this mean China gets free reign of the seas now while the US Navy over hauls all their ships?

>>34932707
it's really unnecessary. the only problems are obviously with the 7th fleet command, crews, and the heightened war warning.

>>34929768
>He lost consciousness at this time and does not remember how he escaped from Berthing 2, but he ultimately emerged from the flooding into Berthing 1, where he could stand to his feet and breathe. He climbed Berthing 1’s egress ladder, through Berthing 1’s open watertight scuttle and collapsed on the Main Deck. He was the only Sailor to escape through the starboard egress point.
This guy has a fucking guardian angel.
Gets out of the wrecked part of the ship and doesn't even know how.
He was also medevac'd via chopper for treatment of [REDACTED]

Maybe he was a radioactive guardian angel

>>34932701
wtf how do the watches cycle? is it the 5 on 5 off 7 on 7 off stuff we do in canada or is it just shift work and the ship goes to bed at night? because ive heard its the latter and that boats are horribly understaffed at night and staffed with only grumpy people who are mad they have graveyard shift work

If you hit another car while going 60km per hour, you'll get wrecked.
When a huge ship hits another ship at similar speeds, most of the crew is fine.
Can someone give me physics behind this? Bigger mass or what?

>>34932852
more ship to crumple up and dissipate the energy

people who are caught at the points of collision generally get turned into paste though

but on the other hand, theres void space to go to and most collisions arent t-bones. warships also tend to concentrate crew quarters below the water line and after a compartment or two of just engineering stuff or outright void so that a hole in the ship doesn't immediately kill everyone inside

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"Down and" what?
This is from the Fitzgerald report that was linked above

>>34932832
only command engine and weapons must use dogged watches and in the US navy its a 3 section dogged watch so even general quarters allows everyone 14 hours "off duty".

>>34932852
What makes you think that they were going that fast?

>>34929577
also some orange chicken

>>34932887
hahahahahahahahahaha what the fuck

no wonder you keep running into outside business hours, it sounds like the bridge is fucking empty between 5pm and 9am

>>34929867
ok..you are officially retarded now. congratulations. Bow thrusters are used in almost every larger ship nowadays...

Godammit, how the fuck does the US Navy keeps fucking up like this?

>>34932935
>>34932887
Well, that explains it.

>>34932903
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_system#Traditional_system_with_three_sections
wtf are you talking about? bridge and deck watch are 24 hour tasks 3 section duties (red white blue)
exhaustion is not what has caused these fuck ups

>>34929084

But I never heard about collisions with military ships from other countries ?

>>34932935
Too big to fail
America doesn't make mistakes motherfucker

>>34932879
(b) 6 means personally identifiable information or medical history, both of which are purged from FOIA documents.

Guessing it's redacting a description of a medical condition that could be considered confidential.

>>34932952
>America doesn't make mistakes motherfucker
riiiiiiiiiight

>>34932953
>DRUNK AND DISORDERLY

>>34932953
>personally identifiable information or medical history
Wonder what could follow "down" that would be medically relevant and/or identifiable
"Seizing" maybe?
Do they even allow epileptics in the Navy?

>>34932974
Well being slammed around by a large cargo ship could cause a lot of things to be honest. Though I doubt epilepsy would be the symptom here.

>>34932974
>Do they even allow epileptics in the Navy?
AFAIK epileptics are banned from all Armed Services.

18th of August 2016: USS Louisiana and USS Eagelview collide.
31st of January 2017: USS Antietam runs aground in Tokyo bay.
9th of May 2017: USS Lake Champlain is rammed by a Korean fishing vessel.
17th of June 2017: the USS Fitzgerald collides with the ACX Crystal.

And now this. Five complete fuckups in just over a year. I'm starting to get a feeling the 7th fleet might not be a centre of maritime excellence.

>>34932994
Oh, I'm looking at the report again and all injuries are censored
I thought it was only the "identifiable" ones.
He could have had a stubbed toe and it'd be blacked out.

That makes a LOT more sense.

>>34933047
>>34933020
>>34932994
>>34932974
>>34932962
>>34932953
>>34932879
>>34933047


maybe look into how documents are actually classified/designated before freaking out at a black bar

all medical stuff is pro b

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>Be on kikebook
>Check the story and the comments out
>All CNN posts
>People are actually finding a way to blame Trump for this

This is pretty fucking funny lads.

>>34933092
>This is pretty fucking funny lads.
And I saw someone blaming obama for making the Navy "soft" this just in, people are idiots.

>>34931081
heh

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Should have bought Chinese.

>>34933092
youd have done the same with obama

>>34931081
>>34931056
haha

>>34933109
The average person on facebook is a bit special.

>>34933158
I'm English, so it's safe to say I wouldn't

>>34933184
you would have done the same with thatcher

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I was a BM for 4 years, am literally retarded so just stood watches 80% of my time

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>>34933236
I would never speak I'll of the Argie Annihilator

>>34933092
Well to be fair they say that one of the reasons why the collision happened was because the crew is constantly overworked and sleep deprived. The seventh fleet is currently in a state of high operation readiness due to the recent tensions with North Korea, which Trump didn't help with his constant twitter wars with Kim. If things had stayed quiet, the higher ups may not have pushed the fleet so hard.

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>>34932960
It was sarcasm anon

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This generally is a problem with the USN these days. Remember this old article: Now we see the results at hand.

https://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/07/12/surface-navy-were-not-good-to-go/

>Surface Navy: ‘We’re not good to go’

>Top service officials acknowledge that it'll take much more time and effort to reverse the problems plaguing the Navy's surface fleet.

>POSTED BY: PHILIP EWING JULY 12, 2011

>A pair of top Navy officials admitted Tuesday that its endemic readiness problems are basically unresolved — and may keep getting worse — before the service’s plans to fix its surface fleet finally take effect. Vice Adm. Bill Burke, the Navy’s top maintenance officer; and Vice Adm. Kevin McCoy, head of Naval Sea Systems Command, told a House Armed Services Committee panel that it took so many years, and so many interconnected decisions, to put the surface Navy in its current state that it would take a lot of time and effort to get it right again.

>>34933341
Imagine if we had an actual war going on

>>34932962
Do you think we're robot clean?
Does this face look almost mean?
It's time to be an android, not a man

>>34933341
So much for greatest Navy in the world with more budget then the 6 other largest Navies combined.
So much for shitting on India and China's Navy when shit like this happens..

>>34933406
The navy is just as reliant on good people as the army. Tech can only get you so far.

>>34933382
The problem is that you kinda do, for the last fifteen years. Low intensity wars compared to WW2, but still enough to cost a fuckload of money. Keeping the budget in check then means saving on shit that isn't currently all that useful. Fighting in Afghanistan and Iraqi back alleys, that means these ships.

>>34933476
>the problem isn't that the sailors are retarded
>no
>its that the ships are cheap

>even though theyre the highest tech ships in the world

>>34933519
I think he means that with less budget, the Navy can afford fewer sailors and that leads to understaffing, overworking, and mistakes like this

>>34933404
what did >he mean by this?

>>34933475
It's almost like all that money could be used to hire and train actual competent sailors. And the US has ruled the seas since WWII, that's half an century of traditions and culture that should be boosting morale and fostering competent leadership. Not to mention that in america you get to draw upon a group of reasonably educated people, unlike poos in the loo that house literal slaves on their ships or your average china sweatshop worker.

>>34933555
>And the US has ruled the seas since WWII,
dude what the navy has always been super incompetent and has done little to nothing of note, its just ramping up into straight up collisions at sea now

>>34933533
The Navy already has the biggest budget in the world several times over. How much more do we need?

>>34933546
>>34933555
DoD bot has gone haywire
someone email the NSA and get this thing to shill some sensical posts

what if americans werent retarded?

>>34933574
Kill yourself cuck

>>34933572
Evidently more if they want to main the fleet sizes.
Maybe retire a few ships and properly man the ones left

what if americans, instead of being stupid, were not stupid?

>>34933600
What if you had better grammar and spelling?

>>34930230
>maybe they should bring back drinking on ships, or at least carrying booze to sell in port. are there good "intangebles" like that in the USN, like good messes, heavy contact with civilian contractors, other skill-building than just military stuff or formal schooling, etc.?


god damn that sentence broke down to utter shit. Try again retard.

20 men on deck watch and a dozen in the bridge on a cloudy clear night in calm seas and a destroyer manages to get rammed by a merchant ship
that kind of incompetency is only corrected by sentences to leavenworth but, the real problem is that the ships are being given unrealistic emcon orders which inhibit their ability to detect out of sight threats.

these ships shouldn't be going without hourly active radar sweeps in order to stay hidden at night anyway
if another ship even a merchant is detected they should put up a drone to keep an eye on it

>>34932852
If cars had 100 feet of crumple zone it would be the same

>>34933341
Let me guess, no "conservative" will admit that the Navy's problem are rooted in it being the most non-white branch
Along with the endless busywork that the Navy spends billions of dollars a year doing

>>34933643
Both accidents were in busy sea lanes
There is no reason to do stupid EMCON shit when you are passing hundreds of other ships closely
Half of them are Chinese ships who will be keeping track of US military vessels.

what if americans

>>34933611
Excuse me sir but, grammar is not something one may "have" per se. Verily, tis a device which one may use.

>>34933692
There has to be some excuse for the bridge crews lack of awareness. I don't believe any Arleigh Burke is going have clusterfuck bridge crews. I believe 7th Fleet or the Secretary has ordered Pacific war ships to use emergency emmissions controls which disallow the use of passive surface and air radar. Including a ban on satellite connections where they could easily monitor merchant transponders as well.

>>34933729
>m-mum emcon
nigga do they not have eyes with which to see

>>34933692
>i-its the niggers fault
>also they shouldnt train as much its just ""busywork""
hahahahahahahahaahahaahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahah

holy shit americans are garbage

>>34933729
>?I believe 7th Fleet or the Secretary has ordered Pacific war ships to use emergency emmissions controls which disallow the use of passive surface and air radar.
why would they do this though?

>>34926189
This anon's got it, a focus on the LCS away from actual cruisers, frigates and destroyers combined with a lack of good SWO training.

>>34933779
or you could just tell the lookouts to open their fucking eyes

do they even have lookouts on american ships or do they just sail by GPS and assume everyone will get out of their way?

What are the odds on another collision or incident happening again this year?

>>34933793
>or do they just sail by GPS and assume everyone will get out of their way?
it's probably this one

>>34933809
I give it a 1

out of 1

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>>34933092

CBC was also retarded-tier.

A lot of comments were basically "This is a DRUMPF false flag to go to war with Russia and North Korea"

>>34925561

america, just get out of asia, you clearly can't navigate

>>34933834
>comments
why the fuck would you ever read the comments on news articles, theyre always full of retards

even porn video comments are more reasonable and thought-out

>>34928137
its named after his dad or grandad or some faggoty shit like that

>>34933843

For shit and giggles.

I still can't believe /k/ manages to be the less retarded one of the two.

>>34933793
>do they even have lookouts on american ships
No. What year do you think this is, 1775?

>>34929159
>What? You think that the entire ocean and all waterways are a TSS? Fuck no. Once you're out of port in a place like China it immediately turns into absolute chaos.

>I don't know what colregs are
the post.

>>34933887
and that guy insists he's OOW qualified: >>34929190

Given how many collisions there have been lately and how incompetent the USN seems as a whole, I don't think he's lying.

>>34933887
>I have never been in a situation where the Colregs are inadequate
the post.

>>34933793
>do they even have lookouts on american ships
lol do you think fighter pilots fly by eye too? retard

>>34933952
this. you cant always follow the rules. you dont get to be the strongest navy on earth by obeying others. anyone who disagrees is a fucking cuck and a commie

>>34932587
Same reason you capitalize Marines, Soldiers, and Airmen.

>>34934001
If a fighter jet sees a fucking mountain in front of him then I hope that he uses his eye while flying. And you fucking butthurt america, your GPS and radar clearly failed you there, a simple lookout would have easily spotted the problem and prevented the incident. A container ship being fucking huge, even with nothing but their eyes and some pen and paper they could have charted out it's course hours before hand.

>>34931128
>/k/ says nothing about X
>anon posts in a thread exactly about X
Idiot.

>>34934033
>If a fighter jet sees a fucking mountain in front of him


>what is radar

fucking faggot cuck

>>34932587
theyre more important than you and a US Sailor is more important than other sailors you fucking commie shithead

>>34930887
>The Chinese hacked the US ships,
I find it hilarious and sad that people think you can hack a ship and remote control it like a toy car. Do you people not understand want closed network compartmentalized systems are? The absolute most you could do is intercept and or muck about with ship to shore communications.

>>34934054
>>what is radar
Why don't you ask the John Mccain how the world's most advanced radar, sonar and GPS system worked out for it?

>>34934104
the chinese intentionally hit it with a missile and used the tanker as a cover up. stealth mode policy meant no radar was on so they didnt know it was a missile until its too late.

>>34929662
You just need to convince the cartels that a moon base is the best way to run their drug empire. Orbital drop pods of drugs, weapons and cash, lets local lords call it in faster then authorities can respond any where on the globe. Moon is under alternative legal jurisdiction and point defenses make it near impossible to attack. The whole surface can be domed off to grow drugs in high output greenhouses. Low orbit space stations give countless real time data options to improve criminal logistics. The cartel that makes it to the moon will win, and so will humanity. After which we convince them they need a hedonistic haven on Mars and so on. It all about marketing.

>>34934149
because an 80 IQ country like Mexico could run a space program?
You need high IQ people to do difficult things that can't tolerate screw ups

>>34934033
>A container ship being fucking huge, even with nothing but their eyes and some pen and paper they could have charted out it's course hours before hand.
Not really, those cargo ships move incredibly erratically.

The real failure here is of the ROE. If they could have used their weapons to warn off or sink the cargo ship, it would have turned out fine.

>>34934130
Chinese really pulled some Sun Tzu styled "winning wthout fighting" strategy:

1. Build ASBM, scare the US
2. US is now forced to remain EMCON, which tires out the crews
3. Crash ensures
4. China wins without even firing a shot.

>>34934183
>Not really, those cargo ships move incredibly erratically.
What? Those ships are so big, change direction so slowly and have a top speed of a sprinting man that it probably couldn't have chased down your average fishing boat if it actively tried to intercept it and charged in at ramming speed.

>>34934221
What are bow thrusters? They can turn in their own footprint.

>>34928543
Your avant garde interpretation of the language is similar to that used by russian shills. Did the ones who had a passible command of the language get fired because they weren't getting paid?

>>34934241
And it takes so long to turn that unless the crew were complete idiots they can update the charts according.

>>34934257
Have you ever seen one turn? They're fast.

Fucking neverserveds...

>>34934313
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzveUz-WRGQ

Have you seen how fast a destroyer turns? 180 degrees in less then a minute. Even with bow thrusters, it will still take more then an hour for cargo ships of such size to turn a 180 degrees. And their huge size means that those course corrections are going to be incredibly obvious and of course even after they change course, they still have to come at you at the speed of a disabled baby.

Holy fuck are we having this conversation right now. You're arguing that one of the biggest slowest ships in the world can ram into a state of the art destroyer without trouble. Do realize how retarded you sound.

>>34934383
>Even with bow thrusters, it will still take more then an hour for cargo ships of such size to turn a 180 degrees.

Nigga please

Stop talking complete bollocks, it makes you look like an idiot.

>>34934397
>Stop talking complete bollocks, it makes you look like an idiot.
Nice argument there mate.

>>34934383
>180 degrees in less then a minute.
Tankers can match that. Not only that but the chinks have it out for us because they hate our Freedom and our Sailors. A bad ROE and EMCON policy meant that one of our ships had to almost get sent to the bottom.

>>34925583
Named after his Grandfather, an Admiral, Aviator, and Carrier Task Group Commander in WWII, AND his Father, a WWII submarine commander, an Admiral as well and the CINCPAC, during the Vietnam War.

>>34934402
I can't argue with numbers that are so wrong they must have been made up on the spot.

A fully laden tanker will still only take a minute or so to go right round if you're hard over.

>>34934383
tankers turn inside of themselves very quickly and very precisely so they can dock without tugs

youve never even been to china

>>34933762
I don't know but, I can't see how a destroyer could be rammed while it's passive radar is operating and standard operating procedural warnings are broadcast. Can't imagine a bridge crew would be so sloppy not too run their ship unless their ability to do so was hindered. The only thing I can come up with is an over strict EMCON. Potentially, passive radar can give false tracks especially around major sea and air lanes. If the ships missile compliment is tuned to auto fire on aggressive bearings like Irans flight 655 (which may have been an automated defensive attack).

Now I can imagine a deck watch would be so sloppy. Everyone enlisted man gets deck watch including 1x4 hour watch on your 'day off'

>>34934415
>>34934418
That's in still water when they're completely stationary you fucks. It's different when they're moving at full speed.

>>34929139
>how fucking hard is it to stay in your lane?
Are you retarded?

>>34934422
>it's passive radar is operating
they werent because of emcon

cant you fucking read

>a deck watch would be so sloppy
wtf. are you insulting our Sailors?

>>34934437
(You) truly are the master baiter

>>34934432
tankers turn inside of themselves very quickly and very precisely so they can dock without tugs

youve never even been to china

>>34934432
Even then you're talking shit. Even a massive tanker with no bow thruster can go 180 degrees from stationary faster than that. Go hard to starboard, give the engines a kick forward. That'll give you enough to turn the ship around. It's really not that complicated.

>>34929139
>how fucking hard is it to stay in your lane?
It's a Warship. It doesn't have "lane", it goes where it wants because it's a fucking Warship.

>>34934454
And again that's when they are more or less completely stationary. At full speed, trying to ram another ship and having to constantly change course, how fast would it take to turn the ship 180 degrees?

Just to reiterate my previous theory because I think it has merit:
7th Fleet has ordered such a strict EMCON on it's DDGs because their missiles are set to automatically fire on tracks with aggressive posture. Meanwhile they've been order to disable even their passive 1 dimensional surface radar in order to keep their batteries from automatically firing on civil false positives. Sounds fucking stupid but, also a plausible reason besides the retarded sailor theorem.

>>34934466
This. The McCain stood no chance against a tanker ship, not even a chinkmade one. They're just too agile.

>>34933555
It hasn't really ruled the seas; it's seen the other navies of the world fade away without competition. Now there's a new navy rising and it's shitting itself.

>>34934510
>their missiles are set to automatically fire on tracks with aggressive posture
That is the dumbest feature I have ever heard of in my life.

>fishing boat crew is late for din din at the dock bar
>free wheels it outta there
>auto lock on from the destroyer
>not only is this innocent fishing boat completely btfo, but whoever was on the upper decks at that time are also all fried and/or have double cancer from rocket exhaust

couldnt possibly have been human error, nah, they were completely blind and couldnt even see the tanker with their fucking eyes because they had to blindfold themselves as well as turn off all radars, including navigational radar, in case the missiles automatically launched by themselves.

>>34934546
>their missiles are set to automatically fire on tracks with aggressive posture
But that's how it works. Are you dumb or something?

>>34934546
technically in a cold war gone hot situation 1 minute of delay looking at radar scopes means certain death
there can't be human error in a collision if the radars are operating because they should automatically sound klaxons and release warning devices before collisions.

hypothetically:
>why not just disconnect the radar primer from the missile controls
it might take time to boot up/in the relay from radars to missiles so they keep them activated but switch off all radar until they've been given orders otherwise

>>34934466
>Even a massive tanker with no bow thruster can go 180 degrees from stationary faster than that.
>From stationary

That's my point you fucks, of course the turning radius will be small if it starts out stationary. But as with everything the faster you go, the bigger your turning radius is and the longer it will take for you to change direction.

>Big ships do not turn or stop on a dime. A 29,000-ton merchant vessel traveling at 15 knots takes a long time to stop or slow, and its turning radius is quite large. Using formulas from the ABS source cited here, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) standard for the container ship involved in this collision appears to be approximately 2.5 nautical miles to stop (at 15 knots) and over a half mile turning radius.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a27004/how-could-the-fitzgerald-collision-happen/

>>34934604
This. Weapons on US Warships are always armed and ready to go.

The only way to prevent automatic firings (and WWIII) is to sail blind.

>>34934628
I think this is what happened with Iran flight 655. The reporting on the attack was disinformed in order to cover this automated defensive (and potentially over aggressive) missile launch system.

>>34932554
>>34932701
>>34932636
>>34932832
My ship had fuckall plans for blue/gold crews during general quarters. We all had stations. I think it really, really depends on the type of ship.

>>34934679
you must have gone through general quarters drills and training at general quarters for days at a time. how long were you on duty then?

>>34934707
General quarter drills generally weren't that long, three hours at the most. I'm just miffed because we didn't even have a plan for two teams during general quarters. Literally everyone had a station.

Nobody left to take your slot for you to get off watch. Even non combat important rates were thrown on things like the M2 mounts. So I don't see how we *could* have done it

And Ticons have more swinging dicks than Burkes

Thread's in autosage, go use

8>>34934582
>>34934582
>>34934582

>>34934643
That's actually what happened though, the news eventually reported on it.

>>34934741
Huh, well I understand that due to a lot more automation on Burkes that the ship can be in a battle zone with a third of it's men in their racks for days.

HOW DO YOU FAIL TO SEE A HUGE FUCKING BOAT

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>>34929536

>>34932587
A "Sailor", in this context, is a proper noun meaning someone working aboard a US Navy warship, while a sailor is a noun meaning anyone working aboard any ship.