why cant america into navigation?

Faggots, trannies, women, PC, low funding, political correctness, pregnancies at sea, lactation stations on warships, seminars and training for diversity, lack of spare parts, lack of training, lack of sleep, et cetera times every year of the Obama administration. This is his Navy. We have just begun to fix it.

I'm a lighthouse, your move.

>>34934601
Low funding? Doesn't the US Navy have the biggest budget of any naval force in the entire history of the world? Isn't it bigger than most other nations COMBINED? Even underfunded third-world navies made up of donated Coast Guard ships from WWII generally manage to avoid getting rammed by commercial traffic...

>tfw when too alpha to read maps

Their radars were off to avoid accidental weapons firings. Because the weapons fire off automatically whenever they detect hostile tracks, the ship had to sail totally blind. No radar, no sonar. So of course they couldn't see the tanker. The tanker should have realized this and diverted properly instead of striking the John McCain.

have you ever seen a tanker

they can turn on a fucking time

that tanker intentionally rammed the destroyer

the destroyer stood no chance

its roe didnt even let it

>>34934638
>Because the weapons fire off automatically whenever they detect hostile tracks
That's a load of shit that has no supporting evidence

Even poo in loo navy isn't this bad. Burgers got BTFO

>>34934775
>what is technology
>what is automation
Ships are meant to have smaller and smaller crews now, because the ship itself does more and more. It's also what was behind that iranian jet getting shot down. Look it up.

From previous thread:
Just to reiterate my previous theory because I think it has merit:
7th Fleet has ordered such a strict EMCON on it's DDGs because their missiles are set to automatically fire on tracks with aggressive posture. Meanwhile they've been order to disable even their passive 1 dimensional surface radar in order to keep their batteries from automatically firing on civil false positives. Sounds fucking stupid but, also a plausible reason besides the retarded sailor theorem.

technically in a cold war gone hot situation 1 minute of delay looking at radar scopes means certain death
there can't be human error in a collision if the radars are operating because they should automatically sound klaxons and release warning devices before collisions.

hypothetically:
>why not just disconnect the radar primer from the missile controls
it might take time to boot up/in the relay from radars to missiles so they keep them activated but switch off all radar until they've been given orders otherwise

I think this is what happened with Iran flight 655. The reporting on the attack was disinformed in order to cover this automated defensive (and potentially over aggressive) missile launch system.

Something was/is compromised.

How hard is it to go through a traffic lane without hitting anyone? Did they have curtains over the bridge windows or something? No AIS up? Not even nav radar?

>>34934775
there is no fucking evidence you cunt
all we have is retard sailors or even stupier theory of attack merchant vessels
automated weapons control is the best hypothetical

i wonder if the tanker was built in a chinese shipyard...

>>34934796
>a traffic lane
Do you think it's like the road when you're in your car? It's the open fucking sea you noguns neverserved cunt.

>>34934646
>they can turn on a fucking time
They can only do that when stationary anon. If they were full ramming speed they take hours to completely change course.

Let's be fair here, the US navy has a lot more ships in the water at any given time than other countries, so those accidents are statistically that much more likely to happen. Besides, you hear about it much less when it happens to other navies.

>>34934790
You can't convince me that modern US ships have no navigation systems designed for peacetime use. What, are they using fucking sextants to track stars?!

I don't buy that shit one bit.

>>34934803
Or, get this, overworked sailors with little sleep.
7th Fleet has been run ragged this last few months due to NK saber rattling.
It's been said for years that the Navy's in deep shit when it comes to workload while underway.
Now it's coming to a head due to the increased "readiness" the 7th Fleet is under.

Lack of sleep/rest is a huge debilitation. It's equivalent to being drunk. And that's when you can keep your eyes open.
What happened is the people who were even awake were too zonked to react.

No big mystery. Just people who haven't been able to sleep more than a few irregular hours a day for months.

>>34934796
as far as line of sight reasoning
everyone gets deck watch and most sailors are lazy faggots who would rather be sleeping or jerking off
in normal conditions an arleigh burke's bridge would know they're on a collision course before the deck watch cooks and shoe shiners

>>34934844
This is EXACTLY why the weapons are all automated. Because they know that Sailors make mistakes because they're overworked, and can miss hostile contacts.

>>34934785
I'm not saying automation doesn't exist, moron, I'm saying that ships aren't going to fire on everything around them that moves if they turn on their radar.
The 88 Iran Air thing wasn't due to automation either. Someone pushed that button.

>>34934842
isn't exactly fucking peace time in the 7th fleet now is it?
at heightened defcons a fleet is probably given a standard order to arm it's guided missiles automatically against hostile tracks

arent they supposed to teach officers col regs so this shit doesnt happen?

>>34934850
>identify cruise ship as hostile contact
>international incident on your hands
you're a fucking faggot, all weapons systems have layers of security in place to prevent random firing. even anti-mortar systems have progressive levels of operation.

>>34934850
Target acquisition may be automated in some or many ways. But someone needs to press the boom button. There is ZERO chance things are so automated that ships would be firing on civvies if the radar or sonar were on.

Even if there was a "Shoot automatically if the computer gets afraid" mode, it wouldn't be tied intrinsically to the basic functioning of the radar.

>>34934862
So, raise defcon in waters full of civilian traffic, sail blind because all your hi tech space shit is running aimbot, and just pray for the best?

Seriously dude? Seriosly?

>>34934844
exhuastion is horseshit. a standard 3 station watch schedule relieves everyone for at least 14 hours a day.

>>34934833
4 incidents in less then a year says something else

>>34934880
Just because you're not on watch, it doesn't mean you have nothing to do.
Come on man.

>>34934866

Colregs are utterly obsolte and inadequate for actually preventing collisions. All they're there for is to sort out blame after two ships T-bone, and warships are never at fault because a second warship is going to come by and blow the fuck out of whatever country said the first warship was at fault.

Aside from that, the give way vessel turns right, and everything else is played by ear. And even then, we usually turn left because Colregs doesn't work 90% of the time.

Do you think at anchor in restricted visibility we still "at intervals of not more than one minute ring the bell rapidly for about 5 seconds. In a vessel of 100 metres or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel."? Of course not. We need all hands actually doing things, not honking the horn, and we need to be stealthy. This is war.

>>34934638
>Because the weapons fire off automatically whenever they detect hostile tracks
How can you be this stupid but still be able to post.

>>34934877
How do you know? Were you there? How else would Iran Flight 655 have happened?

>>34934878
well, considering the other options it makes a lot more sense. even a passive 2D radar will automatically warn it's crew of a collision there are just to many failsafes. Unless no radar not even it's almost completely untracable passive radar were operating and why would that be?

which leads me to a DDGs automated missile defense battery

>>34934885
come on man come on man
stfu, it is the truth no one is going to be worn out
living on a fucking ship unless they don't have the legs for it to begin with
the worst part of ship duty is how fucking boring is. not how hard you have to work

>>34934796
what is current you fucking faggot

>>34934909
If that's the case, either someone made a huge mistake when designing those systems, or someone slept in sea navigation classes. Either way, it's beyond retarded.

>>34934900
>How else would Iran Flight 655 have happened?
By someone giving out a really stupid order.

>>34934601
>Homosexuals are why tankers crash into warships

Just any excuse to whine about gays huh. Is that all you think about all day?

>>34934918
You can be exhausted by being bored, bro
It's not about having your muscles sore.
You just need consistent and reliable sleep, and that often doesn't have underway

>>34934880
also in canada you only get 12h off, less on the smaller ships, and the only collisions weve had have been:

>ALG and PRO kissing during an exercise where PRO was doing two RASes at once and having other drills at the same time
>An Orca --a non-commissioned training vessel-- struck a half-submerged sub while coming back to Victoria

>>34934958
Are you in the RCN?
I'm in the process of joining up now

>>34934950

He's a tripfag, he's projecting his faggot persona on whatever he can find so he can blame that instead of his own massive homosexuality for why he's a failure at life.

>>34934935
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-422-human-supervisory-control-of-automated-systems-spring-2004/projects/vincennes.pdf
there are documented failures in the aegis system going back to its conception. i doubt that vincennes and 7th fleets systems are at all similar. but it is reasonable to believe that a automated attack and antimissile launch command is coordinated by the radar. that this system maybe left on in passive mode while its radars must be turned off until the aegis is where it is meant to fire; in the open sea. read the report on how the aegis system is compromised by closed in civil sea lanes.

>>34934957
yes it does at least 12 hours off duty every day. bored means nothing to do. the navy doesn't need unfit crewmen it allows them to get plenty of rest. so again stfu

>>34934940
lmao this is good

>>34934950
americans literally cant understand the world except in terms of sex

>>34934968
its ok. id recommend going reserve first to try it out, its what im doing and its gud

you get all the same training and can just CT if you decide to be a lifer.

>>34934866

The problem is that the collision regulations are great in theory, but in practice collision avoidance is an art, not a science.

>>34934940
13/10 fukkin saved

>>34934940
>navigates using loud yelling
oh why was this the bit that got me

>>34934990
You can't blame America for Phil

>>34934958
i'm sure at this point 7th fleet patrols were on 2 station dogged watches as well
but thats as bad as it gets until general quarters is sounded

>>34934971
Why would anyone ever design something like that. Even as a fail-safe you'd give it an on/off switch. It's preposterous. You can't design something like that without explicitly analyzing the potential for this very scenario and immediately realizing how it's a billion dollar disaster waiting to happen.

>>34934969
It amazes me how much of a newfag he is still after all these years

>>34935027
it boggles my mind that the whole ship doesn't do regular watches throughout the whole day, and that there actually is day/night work instead, and that 14h off is somehow not enough

>>34935047
Did you serve? What's your clearance? ATS?

I thought not faggot. You don't know what kind of systems they have. They were almost definitely sailing blind to avoid automated launches. CWISes and main Guns moving already kill many sailors every year, it's not that preposterous that they shut off their radars so the guns and missiles wouldn't act on their own.

>>34935047
The order is given to turn off the Aegis radars but continue running missile primer controls so that in the event of imminent danger or communicated command warning they can be turned on and functional within a very short time.

Therefore deck watches are the only thing keeping the ships safe and every potatoe peeling nigger aboard gets a chance to sleep on watch.

From the independent Vincennes report (I believe the official narrative was disinformed to coverup this overly aggressive missile posture):
>and to tell you about what was going on, i woud liek to talk about the deficiencies of the system itself. and by ssytem, id don't simply mean the aegis computer. i mean the complete interaction between man and machine. a little bit of the human centered ssystem approach would have gone a long way in this case. first, the aegis cruisers were not designed for small scraft battles in enclosed areas like the persion gulf.
REMIND YOU OF ANYWHERE ELSE?
of course i'm just running with a theory here but it seems a lot more plausible than anythign else i've read

>>34935074
>automated launches
prove that this is a thing

no, the ship automatically launching missiles at hostiles when ordered to by the weapons systems operators does not come under "automated launches"

prove that the ship will automatically launch when the crew do not order it to launch

>>34935053
yes, these men are the antonym of exhuasted overworked crewmen. exhuastion didn't cause these problems although negligence of deck watch definitely had something to do with it.

>>34935123
can't be done. if it exists it would be a top secret doctrine only known by bridge crew members. it is not only a plausible system (due to the need for automated response where mach 10 sea skimming missiles exist) but probable in our information age.

>>34935115
This. This is how it happened. They were sailing blind, because they didn't want weapons activation's.

Do you WANT world war iii?

>>34935160
so you're full of fucking shit

>due to the need for automated response where mach 10 sea skimming missiles exist
50 cents have been added to your account

>>34935160
>>34935170
Please stop samefagging.

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>>34935160

>>34935198
There is no reason for a tanker to hit a destroyer. The tanker should get out of the fucking way. I hope this means war.

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>>34935181
>>34935178
as likely as i believe that there is a doctrine of automated radar-missile systems aboard aegis cruisers primed at all times during heightened defense conditions; i also believe that forums where civilians maybe allowed to talk about the flaws in their governments military industrial complex are trafficked by intelligence agents (perhaps like you)

>>34935211
kek yes the arleigh burke's radars were actually functioning and sent out klaxons and warning flares but the evil merchant captain went full flank into her portside
then laughed like a devonshire pirate

>>34935222
>me
>an intelligence agent
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HIDE THE EXISTENCE OF A AUTOMATED WEAPONS LAUNCH SYSTEM FROM 150 PEOPLE, MOST OF WHICH ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING SAID SYSTEM OR ARE SHARING QUARTERS WITH THE FORMER

>>34934601
Lactation station actually sound pretty good.

I can just see a room full of busty bitches offering up their titties for a suck!

>>34934626

To be fair, the more ships you have, the more likely one of them is gonna hit something

>>34934601
god you're such a fucking faggot

>>34935258
next you'll ask me to prove that ICBM silos do not have automated launch control systems that maybe activate remotely through microwave relays through their region
i can't do it but i can tell you that it is more than fucking probable these measures exist and are in use because computers have greater responses than meat bags

>>34935322
>next you'll ask me to prove that ICBM silos do not have automated launch control systems that maybe activate remotely through microwave relays through their region
i think i can hear oppenheimer having a heart attack

>>34935291
to be certain the greater your radar capabilities and ship propolsion the more unlikely you are to get fucking rammed by a 15k tanker
this particular DDG just happens to have the most advanced radar tech on earth and fastest engine in it's class, hmmmmmm

>>34934601

You are 100 percent correct.

Diversity hires and practices have fucked us over.

Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't in the navy and hasn't seen it.

>>34935357
USS McCain has one of those 95% Euro-American crews so that is out the window
although as a general problem retention is terrible in the navy which means that deck watches are performed by 4-6 year then off the college 18-21y.o. fuck ups

also though i'm not an anti-racist faggot navy niggers are generally squared away

>>34934582
That old yarn about the American naval taskforce commander demanding a *insert country here* lighthouse to move is becoming more and more a real story.

>>34935331
so, the only counter argument i've gotten to the automated missile defense / radar deactivated theory is
>it can't be true because you haven't provided the top secret documents you would need to prove it were true

what are the other less likely stupid fucking theories? we've got bridge crew was shootin' 8 ball and the tanker was actually satellite controlled by vladimir putin himself
>blyat mccain!!!

>>34935389

I'm sure who was on lookout and helm would provide quite illuminating.

>>34935429
Do you have any evidence or proof that such an automated system exists?

>>34935429
>it can't be true because you haven't provided the top secret documents you would need to prove it were true
but they couldn't be top secret. almost all of the crew would know directly about the system, almost all of the navy would know of the existence of something like it (for example, i can tell you that all/most military jets have IFF systems, i can not tell you how those systems work, but i know that they exist), and everyone involved in creating the system would know about it. you can't hide something that big.

having such a system doesn't even make sense. what, the mach 10 sea skimming missiles that don't exist and otherwise aren't a threat are going to kill us? what if they aren't? are we not going to design an off switch into the system?

>>34934775
>>34934897
Samefag

>>34935525
>Everybody who thinks I'm talking out of my ass is the same person
You're an a retardo.

>>34934582
If this thing was there to possibly to shoot down NK, ICBMS, and it cant even see a 1000 ft long tanker at 5 knots?

CNN reported lost of steerage. They regained it but it might have been to late.

>>34935470
I am positing that today in the 7th Fleets DDGs command there is a doctrine of automated missile defense against artificially generated and confirmed hostile tracks without human oversight. Of course I can't provide a shred of evidence of such a blatantly aggressive doctrine!

I can point to already existing systems which merely require someone to prime an automated missile battery. It just happens to be called mother fucking Aegis, what do you know? Really what the fuck do you know. Cause I know that it is possible if irrational to leave the Aegis missile system primed while keeping it completely blind by turning off all signal devices. If the missile controls were left off or the radar relay to missile controls were deactivated minutes of computer response time needed to counter AShMs and vampires would be lost during boot in.

As for evidence I can only point to the MIT independent study where they criticized the automated Aegis controls during the Vincennes vs. Iran flight 655 """accident""".

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-422-human-supervisory-control-of-automated-systems-spring-2004/projects/vincennes.pdf

>>34935482
Everyone knows what Aegis is capable of. The actual doctrine of leaving the missile battery primed while in dense sea lanes wouldn't be admissible to the public. It is inherently hostile and yet within Fleet Command or higher necessary for the defense of it's ships during the Korean crisis which just happened to get kicked up a notch with the Korean-American war games.

Coincidentally both the McCain and Fitzgerald were on patrol within congested waters which have been cited as a flaw of the Aegis aquisition computer.

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>>34935598
>>34935628
Sps-63 is the 2D surface track radar that's not tied into the shoot/no shoot subsystem of the ACS.

SPY-1 might have been down, but the 63 was spinning. (or should have been)

I have a 100% confidence that USA would lose against China now in any engagement. I didn't expect American decline in training would be so drastic.

>>34935561
It can track a duck from 200km away probably
problem is that the ballistic missile defense system isn't designed too send friendly morse signals to merchant ships in congested sea lanes near port
everything has to go sigint black if it is to be primed and ready to go into warfighting while close to port

>>34935714
I am presupposing that this can't be so though. That even the passive surface radar is now tied too the defense battery in order that the AEGIS can't be easily HARMed while performing close in anti-ship/missile/air missile fire

like i said what i'm suggesting wouldn't be a very good public and international relations disclosure and therefore the navy and administration will do anything to cover this up. if the passive surface radar were operating than it would have automatically signaled general quarters aboard and launched warning flares off the deck

>>34935722
You have a 100% confidence, eh?

>>34935771
>That even the passive surface radar is now tied too the defense battery
How would a 2D radar achieve this? Furthermore it is an active radar, in the C-band.

>>34935785
Are you intentionally trying to disinfo me cause you might as well take it elsewhere. The AN/SPS-63 is actually an X-band Italian radar suite both passive and active. If what you are originally suggesting that it was active than how could a collision be possible. If it were inactive than why not while the ship is on the second or third patrol leg from Yokosuka?

The SPS-63 isn't even cited in your infographic and there is no way the navy would officially disclose the interaction of it's various AEGIS radar missile linkups.

>>34935857
>If what you are originally suggesting that it was active than how could a collision be possible.
plain old incompetence? my country's navy killed 150 people in two separate naval collisions with an aircraft carrier

>>34934638
lol Who the fuck came up with that one? Why not have a button that toggles the weapon hostility instead of linking it to the radar controls?

>>34935857
Your right, I was mistaken, it's the AN/SPS-67. Mia culpa.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPS-67

>The SPS-63 isn't even cited in your infographic
It would be under navigation.

>>34935882
kind of odd that this pdf returns a 404 it is titled:
Collision Avoidance Devices Onboard US Navy Ships
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/b002301.pdf

but anyway the jist of it was that since the 70s radar avoidance systems have been developed. since the later 90s they've been tied to the radars in order to give advanced warnings. these systems warn of impending collisions up to an hour and can automatically steer the ship and fire warning devices.

you cannot collide with a destroyer using even it's close in passive radar without a slue of warnings and possibly automated avoidance course changes. although it is technically possible that two ships automated steerage might accidentally disable their helms while coincidentally turning to each others course change. that would be one other far fetched theory.

i think the USS McCains radars were completely disabled and it's missile batteries were primed for automated targeting. there is a definite reason the navy hasn't published an open report to congress just as the marines and army have done every time there is a training accident.

>>34935914
if the weapons are human controlled they don't have very much time against a silkworm

>>34936007
>there is a definite reason the navy hasn't published an open report to congress just as the marines and army have done every time there is a training accident.
because this isn't a simple case of "SSG Clownfuck wasn't watching the artillery training so PFC Cunt decided to have a joke and threw a live shell against a rock, killing 12 people", this is a complex case. there isn't going to be a comprehensive statement 5 hours after the incident. they haven't even recovered the bodies yet.

>>34936018
So why not have a button that toggles the weapon hostility instead of linking that hostility to whether or not the radar is on?

>>34936007
DTIC PDFs downloads are fucky. It just worked for me. I have had issues with the site before, but I can't bitch because it's invaluable. Clear cache and try again.

>>34936047

Because that would involve 5,000+ requests for proposal, contract selections, and assorted red tape/overspending bumfuck lasting over 20 years.

Remember, we're talking about the DoD here.

>>34936047
Not him, and I disagree with his assessment due to not accounting for nav radar, but having a single point of attack that cripples a ship defensive abilities is not good from a cyber point of view. It's a lot easier to maliciously toggle a simple go/no go switch than to turn off the entire radar.

>>34936047
because i suppose they are under a war warning due to the upcoming korean-american wargames. if the ballistic missile defense system isn't primed and operational than it must boot up. if the computer doesn't have missile launch control than the aforementioned 50km/min. silkworm is gonna cut the ship in half before a human staring at a radarscope can say "wtf is that"

>>34935340
10% of 10 is one. 10% of 100 is 10.

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>>34936100
>the radar systems don't have an emergency switch to de-energize them immediately in case of Class C fire, battle damage, or safety failure with men working aloft

>>34936153
I'm speaking from a software Pov. It's harder to disable functionality tied with hardware than a pure software disablement of functionality.

>>34936133
>It must boot up
>Starting a radar from EMCON fully de-energized is s faster than flicking a toggle switch or dial from "DON'T KILL EVERYONE YET" to "KILL EVERYONE"

>>34936084
>if it's broke don't fix it
I work for an aero contractor and this shit is so frustrating
>>34936100
I'm just calling it a button because I don't know shit about boat systems, but
S
U
R
E
L
Y
somebody during the whole design process piped up and said this whole setup might be slightly counter-intuitive.
>>34936133
If the radar is always off then how will they know to turn the radar back on when some shit is flying at them? How is that batter? A ship can get close enough without being detected to fucking ram them.

Not trying to be a dick to you guys in here but I'm honestly just astonished that this is part of why they got rammed.

>>34934630
Underrated

Chinese GPS spoofers or actual hacks. Preparing for Korea 2 electric boogoloo.

http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2017/08/21/did_china_hack_the_seventh_fleet_112102.html

>>34936188
i don't understand your point but to spell out my own. the missle defense battery must be operational and linked with all sensors aboard ship. if the automated missile controls are operating though and the ship is in an enclosed sea zone than they must turn off their radars which can easily be powered up in a second again while the missile controls have to boot into the sensors, turrets, silo etc..

radar aren't hardware basically

>>34936233
Okay GPS is gone, what about radar or sonar or good old fashioned eyeballing?

Cyber Attack?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article168470432.html

>>34936204
yes exactly despite your ironic angle bracket that is true
radars are powered on and off within moments. advanced missile controls must load artificial intelligence OSs and POST

>>34936211
They'll know because it will either be communicated or not. The point being the time which the ship can actively begin missile salvos is exponentially longer if the battery is disarmed rather than having it's sensors disabled. If it's radar was operating than it could not have been rammed. The only reason I can assume it's passive surface radar was unoperable is that the missile battery was ordered to be always active due to the heightened tensions in the Pacific.

Which leaves them with maybe passive air radar and definitely a full deck watch which should have been enough to allow them to get into the strait (or away from Yokosuka in the Fitz's case) before re-enabling their radar suite in the open sea.

>>34936321
how about a dude with a pair of fucking binoculars? does the navy have those any more?

Is anyone actually physically "on watch" for other boats, as in lights, noises, etc?

>>34936356
Yeah well. there are potential blind spots but the deck watch should have been able to see a huge tanker at least 5km out. Everyone pulls deckwatch and everyone includes the navies very poor single enlistment for muh-benefits recruitment strategy.

>>34936211

In anything government funded and/or run, it's far more common for the person piping up about the massive fuckup to get fired themselves and nothing done about it, rather than the entire chain of command/responsibility admit they fucked up the basic design specifications which are now 1,000+ pages long and require the combined divine acts of 50 gods to change.

That's how it works.

>>34936321
You don't even need to disarm the battery! Just have it pretend it's simulating all the time and then tell it that real life is happening when you want it to fuck shit up or something. I'm not saying that the procedure should be changed so that the radar is on from now on, I'm saying that a glaring design flaw exists in the weapon system and it should be revised.

>>34936400

>US government and/or massive defense contractor
>fixing any of their fuckups ever

laughinglobbyists.jpg

>>34936256
If that were so than the government would disclose it. Every time a Russian or Chink drone comes near the ships we hear about. Le Clinton emails are still mentioned every week. Can't think of a single reason (even fear of showing vulnerability is unreasonable) it wouldn't be immediately used to the USs advantage in it's propaganda/arms war campaign if that were so.

>>34934582
I think China is playing a dangerous electronic warfare game, screwing with ships radar and/or navigation and the USN is shy to say so because it will make public the weakness of their systems.

>>34936400
I understand your point but like if you put it in demo or sleep than you have to wake the system up. More reasonably if you just sever the linkup with radar systems than you probably have to boot a seperate relay between missile control and radar. If you just deactivate all of the AEGIS radars which are not designed for close in battlescapes and heavily trafficked ports while the battery is operating than you can just simply switch it back on after you've left the congested area.

It is the difference between flipping a rifles weapon to safe while on foot patrol or just taking your fucking eye out of the scope while your marching.

>>34936462
This makes it sound like they navigate with a different radar, is that true? How do these guys navigate normally? I read >>34934638
and this guy >>34934775
seemed to get shot down when he said it wasn't true so I assumed that ALL of the radars were off unless they were being attacked.

>>34934582

I'm actually really impressed about how tightly compressed that dent is, versus bending much more the of the metal around it. I don't know shit about ship building, but have a basic understanding of physics and the sizes of the two ships involved

>>34934950
>>34934969
Found the millennial faggots that grew up during the obama years that believes the lgbfaggot community enriches the armed forces.

>>34936525
Sensors and
processing systems:
AN/SPY-1D 3D Radar
AN/SPS-67(V)2 Surface Search Radar
AN/SPS-73(V)12 Surface Search Radar
AN/SPG-62 Fire Control Radar
AN/SQS-53C Sonar Array
AN/SQR-19 Tactical Towed Array Sonar
AN/SQQ-28 LAMPS III Shipboard System

In normal conditions near port or heavily trafficked sea lanes the missile defense battery would be shutdown and the radar suite would be set to passive scanning. Also, sattelite communications would update the ship on civil traffic. My position is that if the battery is active than all radar and sonar must be tied into the missile control operating system in order for the aegis destroyer to be effective during heightened readiness conditions. While the radars must simply be deactivated near a port than reactivated ASAP.

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>>34936646
I'm loathe to admit it, but that makes perfect sense to me. I guess the only thing I could think of now is to have an isolated radar that is always scanning but that just seems superfluous, honestly. The crew should be able to just spot the stuff that radar would be detecting.

Boats suck dick.

>>34936531
it is bending in around a lateral deck bulkhead. there are also reports that the port side drive shaft was flooded and sea water was welling into the engine room. the hull isn't destroyed like the fitzgeralds was but the navy would rather build another shitty zumwalt rather than fix her

>>34936737
i'm glad i could convert you to my insane conspiracy theory
objectively due to the limitations of the AEGIS destroyer for close in fighting it makes perfect sense to leave its battery operational and just rely on deck watches near ports. but, the very fact that this automated missile battery can potentially """accidentally""" kill thousands of civilians on a cruise liner or hundreds in a civil flight is the reason that the doctrine of missiles on radars off isn't being disclosed.

i can't think of a more plausible reason the bridge wouldn't have total awareness of their environment. deck watchers are scum but bridge personnel are like brigade headquarters in the army. the best of the best out thousands of recruits. they were ordered to shut their eyes and run then the admirals will take a giant shit on them after hitting a wall

>>34934601
>faggots and trannies killed the navy because of Obama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmGuy0jievs

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http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57s5.htm

For the doubters: Just read how automated the Mark 99 combat system was on the 30 year old AEGIS cruiser. I guarantee you that the modern DDG51 can be programmed too destroy everything it senses on a hair trigger and that it is just as unreliable as the Vincennes was during the Iran flight 655 incident. These are strategic war machines.

>>34934880
>5 on 10 off watch rotaton on top of regular work
>on top of regular duty station hours
>and quals
>and a million other little things like the 1MC blaring when you're trying to sleep
>somehow that means sailors get 14 hours off a day
No

>>34934601
The female DCA did alright; the smartest move for zeroes is to listen to their senior enlisted. Plenty of penis bearing officers don't make that low bar.

>>34937050
No
you have a station. you have a dogged watch schedule. you rotate shifts of 4 and 2 hours which allow 14 hours off duty every fucking day. the berths are soundproof except for bells or emergency warning.

the navy is almost as much a shamfest as the airforce. it is boring as fuck but everything is orderly and exhuastive work is not an issue

>>34937098
>14 hours off duty every fucking day.

*inhales*
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You don't actually believe this, right?

>>34934790
Shut up.
Just stop posting.

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>>34936816
>I can't think of a more plausible reason the bridge wouldn't have total awareness of their environment

EMCON is ordered to disguise ship position and to make enemy intelligence ship collection of SIGINT and development of enemy ECM equipment and techniques more difficult. That is common knowledge and far more plausible than "GUIZ WHAT IF AND I HAVE NO WAY TO ACTUALLY PROVE THIS BECAUSE IT'S EVIL GOVERNMENT COVER-UP: THE COMPUTER ALWAYS USES THE RADAR TO KILL CIVILIANS AND NEUTRAL TARGETS NEARBY AND DISABLING A SAFETY LIKE ONE INSTALLED ON THE CIWS WOULD TAKE TOO LONG"

>>34934880
What are normal workday tasks?
What is extra manning for special evolutions (like sea and anchor detail)?
What is port and starboard watchbill because you are short of qualified watchstanders?

>>34934909
You don't know shit.
Passive 2D radar?
I know of no radars with automatic collision warnings.

Air Force > Navy

>>34934918
t. neversailed

>>34934971
This will never be used unless in a peer-to-peer shooting war.
which hasn't happened for the USN since before you were born.

>>34934979
>the navy... allows them to get plenty of rest
Good one

>>34937098
Soundproofed berths?
no

>>34937143
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_system#Traditional_system_with_three_sections
That is the standard watch schedule and the reason they pack 280 dicks on board a 2 billion dollar automated ship that literally can do everything without a body except fix itself

>>34937382
yes every bulkhead deck and door is insulated and soundproofed against sonar detection

>>34935389
>USS McCain has one of those 95% Euro-American crews so that is out the window

CO
CDR A.J. Sanchez

XO
CDR J.L. Sanchez

Leadership seems much more diverse than crew

>>34937249
automatic collision warning devices were on all naval ships in the 1970s
https://archive.org/stream/DTIC_ADB002301/DTIC_ADB002301_djvu.txt
in the 90s radar systems were combined with the ACADs too give advanced warning and automated course changes

>>34937310
so the vincennes missile control didn't automatically track, misidentify, and shoot down flight 655 sure.

>wew dod bot is woke

So lets say this was hacking.

What does the US do? Hack chinese/russian boats? Have a flip container ship trireme the fuck out of China's new carrier?

>>34937538
command staff are two spics and a nigger
well i guess there is no recovery from my argument then ;p

>>34934790
>I think this is what happened with Iran flight 655. The reporting on the attack was disinformed in order to cover this automated defensive (and potentially over aggressive) missile launch system.

We know exactly what happened there. They confused the transponder of an Iranian F14 on the ground with a flying airliner.

>>34935429
the strongest argument against it is
Not being able to turn your sensors on without arming automatic firing is the equivalent of of not being able to turn on your car headlights without the cruise control turning on. Yeah it could be designed like that if you wanted to but why? Could the designers not envision needing the radar without needing to arm the kill everything that moves bot? There's no reason for it to be set up that way. Would you set up a claymore to go off when you turn on your flashlight?

>>34937483
I've actually stood those watches, idiot. It isn't what you think.
>0600- 1800 do your regular job and eat
>1800-0600 either stay up until midnight, wake up at 0400, or stand watch from 0000-0400
>under no circumstances do you ge to sleep in, and sleeping before lights out isn't easy
>get wakened when something breaks. still can't sleep in next day
You must be pretending to be this stupid.

>>34937538
I bet the Sanchez' are lighter skinned than you.

>>34937564
The system tracked and misidentified. A squid gave it permission to fire.

>>34938146
just no. the only problem with fatigue on modern ships is that your 14 hours off duty are broken between watches at your assigned station

>>34937963
my entire claim is that they are ordered to maintain automated weapons releases at all time due to the heightened readiness condition. therefore they must blind their combat system temporarily when close to port so that another vincennes type incident doesn't occur.

the best analogy is a soldier patrolling with his saftey off but the weapon not aimed not ready. if he scopes the weapon around a busy civil street with the saftey off and his finger on the trigger than he's more of a fuck up than having is weapon prepared for combat

>>34934601
Are gays and trannies all you ever think about? Accidents happen. I would be willing to bet my whole income for the rest of this year that this collision was not a result of the ship's bridge being consumed by a gay orgy good enough to draw sailors and officers from their posts. Besides that, this shit has been going down near Singapore and Malaysia. Those waters are some of the most high-traffic trade routes in the world and are full of smaller, often poorly-maintained local vessels that sail between the islands in that region with little government oversight. Accidents are bound to happen, regardless of whether the captain has Playboys or Muscle Man magazines in his bunk.

>>34937700
>>34938166
http://www.newsweek.com/sea-lies-200118
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-422-human-supervisory-control-of-automated-systems-spring-2004/projects/vincennes.pdf
many independent studies and journalists disagree. neither the computer or the fire command was at fault. the order to put the AEGIS system on autofire due to reports of a sister ship being under air attack was the problem. The ships computer did what it was designed to do like what these aegis destroyers are designed to do in a battlezone if their sensors are enabled.

>>34936868
>>34938442
>>34936868
>>34934950
That anon listed a bunch of reasons(most are valid), and all you fags care about is words like "faggot", "tranny"...etc, your lgbt degeneracy. It's very clear who are the real faggots here. And it's really no surprised US military, including half of the world are all going down nowadays.

Military is not a place for your "diversity" and "personal freedom", it's a place for homogeneous, efficiency, discipline and war capability. It's also not place for pleasing and satisfying everyone. So if all you care is "muh lgbt rights" or "identity politics", military is not a place for you. That applies to all military in the world.

>>34934601
>Faggots

Sodomy, lash and rum have always been the three most important naval traditions.

>>34938636
Yeah, for US or UK only maybe

>>34938399
>increased readiness
>too blind to avoid collision

Any order to a level of readiness that requires auto kill bots to be armed is going to require radar be turned on. Safeties off but eyes closed?

>>34938399
They could liters
Yeah make a homemade radar have a screen and be able to see these boats,, have one person man it and avoid any possible collisions.

How retarded is our navy?

If the crew was all white they would be making their own radars.

It was hacked.

>>34936265
Idiot, they would just leave all the AI stuff running and the switch would just decide whether the program had permisison to fire or not

>>34938636
Really? No wonder Amerifags can't into navigation, because they're all too busy to buttfuck each others to get AIDS and drunk. No time to navigate.

It really proves again that lgbt degeneracy should be banned in military forever. I hope my country won't end up like Amerifags.

>>34934880
>3 watch sections
>implying the 14 hours not standing watch is free time
You ever actually been on a destroyer before?
Nobodies sole purpose is to just stand watch. Everyone has other responsibilities to do. Even if there wasn't really anything going on in a particular day my chain of command would still find anything to keep us busy.

Some nights I remember getting more sleep in topside lockers or non-skid because I they wouldn't let us go below decks so long as a helicopter was in the air.
And skipping meals entirely so I could rest for a bit on a pile of kapoks or something.

It honestly wasn't that bad. I probably averaged about 6 hours sleep each day, which is doable, but makes it pretty easy to doze off while standing a lookout watch all by yourself in the middle of the night.
Now, when I left the destroyer and went to a carrier I did actually have 12 hours of free time a day. Funny thing is I hated carrier life with a fucking passion, every single minute I was wishing I was still on a DDG.

>>34936256
There was no hack. It's not like a damn wifi that you log into. Even if the ship was jammed, that would be a complete scandal for russia or china because jamming affects ALL ships within a radius not just one ship.

>>34938366
>pick a fight about how well rested you think the Navy's crew are
>Get counter-argument from Navy veteran telling them that the watch crew are not, in fact, well-rested
>Tells the Veteran they're wrong

And that's /k/, ladies and gents.

>>34934582
At least the new generation of sailors these days are well trained in gender equality and sexuality. Proper seamanship is useless if your crew is not diverse and understands the impact of micro aggressions. How can they function without a safe space from a hostile masculine work environment?

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>>34934601
>GOP-controlled Congress cuts military funding
>Joint Chiefs all decide the best way to make cuts is to do all the same stuff with fewer people
>THANKS, OBAMA
Wew, rightists are fucking dumb

>>34934626
Third world navies made up of coast guard ships from WWII generally don't leave their territorial waters.

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>>34934950
>>34934969
>>34934990
>>34936868
>>34938442
>redditors getting butthurt about people using the world faggot

You don't belong here. The fact that your kind get so butthurt over a word proves that you have absolutely no place in the military.

>>34939057
He's fractionally right in the broken clock kind of way. The military's attention needs to be spent on doing the mission of the military, not on making sure they're fully compliant and accommodating for the latest trends and social experiments lest their careers be on the line.

>>34938399
You know navigation radar and weapons radar are seporate things right? And that modern commercial vessels have GPS systems that report their positions to the fucking internet right? Like even if they can't turn the radar on all they would need is a sailor with a laptop on the bridge reporting on the location of other ships.

>>34934582
>be US Navy Captain on destroyer
>sailing through sea with the might of a thousand eagles behind me
>tired from fucking lower ratings
>thinking about the coffee that the trans has made
>pat trans on head as it sucks cock
>crash into gigantic oil tanker
>screech autistically at tanker for invading safe space

>>34934601

kek`d at all of the butthurt faggots

>>34934626
>Doesn't the US Navy have the biggest budget of any naval force in the entire history of the world?

Doesn't mean its enough for how big it is or how much responsibility it has.

>>34939131
>And that modern commercial vessels have GPS systems that report their positions to the fucking internet right? Like even if they can't turn the radar on all they would need is a sailor with a laptop on the bridge reporting on the location of other ships.

What the fuck are you even talking about. I've never heard such uneducated shit in my life.

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>>34934813

>Not knowing how sea lanes works

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Funny how this shit happened to US navy twice, yet when it happened to the russians, /k/ was all spiteful, happy, demonic even, just because it happened to the russians first.
No russians died in that incident. Yet how many americans did?
How many carcasses were extracted from the wreckage's?
Were they salty?
Like most of you are now?
Hmmmmm?

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get some tomatoes, look at all the salt
whaddaya say /k/?
hmmmm?

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>/k/ right now

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>everyone stopped posting

and now the US Navy has ground to a halt.

In both incidents, the merchant vessel had the right-of-way and signaled the Naval vessel by light when within 2nm ... a signal that was not returned either time.

The crew of the Fitzgerald was relieved of duty, according to the Navy's initial report. The same is expected in this incident as well.

This is going to result in more funding, of course. Soon, our military expenses will be half of our annual budget. Clearly by design.

Expect at least one more incident before October 1st.

They only have to stear the boat away from other boats, is that too much to ask?

Even China is laughing at the US incompetencey.

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>>34934601
Is cock all you think about? You truly are a Californian.

>>34934790
Bullshit.
Absolute bullshit written by someone with no knowledge of radars or EW, let alone fire control.

>>34934940
Simply ebin

>>34935258
>150 PEOPLE
Per ship. With more than 50 AEGIS ships built.

>>34935322
>greater responses
Faster isn't alway better, particularly with nuclear weapons.

>>34936018
>a silkworm
The first response to that is from the radar room's EW, not fire control.
Detect the radar, classify it as homing head, alert the conn and at his command fire SRBOC. The short version takes around 15-30 seconds, much shorter than a Styx's reaction time to detecting a target.

>>34936265
Absolutely wrong. Missile components aren't left running constantly, they're off until turned on prior to launch. It doesn't take long at all, even for older missiles with gyros which need to be spun up prior to launch it's only around 30 seconds.

>>34936646
Nav radar is always on during peacetime and is, at least on older warships, not tied in to the FCS.

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>>34934582

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4781714/Is-Russia-developing-GPS-spoofing-system.html

>>34934601
>Philposting this fucking hard

>>34939702
GPS spoofing has been a thing for ages, and it has fuck all to do with collision avoidance because you should be using your radar in sea stabilised mode. And looking out of the fucking window.

>>34934582
it's named the John McCain for a reason

>>34939057
>posting an unrelated gif
yeah the faggot sailor was the one who decided to dangerously overcharge that gun right

>>34934601
how's that trap hentai goin', Phil?

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>>34934582

Pic related.

>>34939384
>>34939369
>>34939361
>>34939378
>>34939374
hahahaha, great posts! you sure are the funniest guy on this board!!!! xD!

>>34938887
>Funny thing is I hated carrier life with a fucking passion
Why?

>>34938600
Hi Phil

I heard there were casualties? Any info on that?

>>34939057
>Implying the Iowa exploded because of a gay sailor
Congrats, you fell for the oldest propaganda in the book.

>>34938770
Your loss, with all those men in such a tight space without a single woman for miles sailors tend to get pretty lonely. Even perfectly straight men can use a pick me up now and then. Urges need to be sated.

>>34939072
I wasn't aware that the US armed forces actually paid for gender reassignment while on duty. I mean there's veterans benefits but that's easy to change.

>>34934582
>that open lid harpoon canister

>>34939308
Basically, if you have GPS and a map you don't need radar to figure out where you are. Infrared and ladar can pick out other ships at close range. You don't need your radar on all the time.

>>34940025
We found 1 body and another news says divers found human remains in the flooded compartment.
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/08/22/malaysian-navy-finds-body-in-search-for-10-missing-us-sailors/

>>34940203
>10-missing-us-sailors
Welp. So 10 dead basically. RIP.
What a shitty way to die.

>>34940195
DDG51 have such strict emmissions control that there is nothing but human eyes as sensors during passage near a port. All 5 radar/sonar (no ladar or other easily detectable nav radar aboard) are tied to the automated missile controller. If they want to be safe but ready within seconds than they can't run shit.

>>34939904
Too many people, and everyone thought they were the most important person on board. None of them seemed to really understand how easy carrier life is either, they would complain about literally everything like for example if the line for starbucks got too long.

To go along with that, if you ever needed anything from another department you might as well go fuck yourself. Everyone was too busy for you, personnel office was useless and medical took forever. Everything had set hours of operation and it was always the most inconvenient times, if you arrived a minute late they'd turn you away with a smile on their face.
I couldn't help but feel babied sometimes too though. Like the fact they felt it necessary to have armed security walking around the ship underway like they didn't trust us.


Destroyers were just more pleasant to be on because everyone knew each other on a more personal level. The food was better, the people were nicer, spaces were cleaner. People would go out of their way to help out where they could, whereas on the carrier I was on there was kind of this every man for himself feeling.

>>34940188
they probably shot one into the ocean at one point for funsies, navies do it all the time for "training"

>>34940165
this is why ship's dogs exist

>>34940203
MalingSHIT

>>34940203

Malaysia is leading its own separate SAR from the US-led one

>>34939009
honestly after spending time with army guys and seeing some statistics on Literal Outright Rape in the CF, all the sensitivity training we get now makes a lot of sense. you'd think it's all microaggression shit but nah, junior members are legit being taken to the bow thruster compartment and being denied promotions unless they accept advances from older dudes. happens to both genders too

i wouldnt be surprised if the climate is identical in the US

>like 666 posts of faggot americans unironically arguing that weapons systems are linked to nav radars

have you ever seen a nav radar screen? it's hard enough to identify shorelines with it, let alone enemy targets. there is literally no reason to link weapons to nav radar, or to turn nav radar off for weapons safety reasons. even radhaz concerns are minor since you can tune radars' power and any model built after 761 BCE has a feature where you can tell it to automatically turn off between some angle (usually used to avoid irradiating temporary wires or other structures that could re-radiate and hurt ppl, but could in theory be used to do fancy stealth shenanaigans where you only wanna look in one direction and not tell the whole world "hey im looking at you with my radar")

>>34940325
yes well as far as sleep/rest chopper crews and service personnel have it the worst because they are so often put on extra duties. still your DDG was a fuck up if you were only geting 6 hours sleep instead of 8. Every man should have hist station and if he is on deck watch than he should be relieved of his usual station watch not have his schedule compounded.

3 years ago there was study signifing that many DDGs had over worked under rested crews on average and since then the navy released strict british standard watch schedules again. A DDG51 could transit with a skeleton crew of less than 50 and it could easily operate everything necessary for battle stations with about 150 with a 5/10 watch. It has nearly double that for a reason.

>>34940411
if warships had lidar than they would be bent over ready to get dicked. DDG51s have two surface search radars both of which are used for navagation and linked into firecontrol for target aquisitions.

>>34940495
>if warships had lidar than they would be bent over ready to get dicked.
haha wtf m9 how do you think they see EPIRBs for search and rescue and navigate around mundane obstacles

ive never been on the bridge of a yankee ship but all the canuck ones have norma X and S band radars for just puttering about, as well as proper weapons radars (and usually radars fixed right to CWIS units too)

linking your weapons firing to your nav radars is the dumbest shit imaginable, it's like if multirole jets used their altimeter and electronic landing system to guide bombs instead of a proper radar or GPS or even television/laser guidance suite

also seriously have you ever seen the output of those surface radars? it's fucking unreadable, if it'd auto-fire on whatever "looks aggressive" then it would be blowing up rocks and lighthouses and random bits of particularly humid air left and right

>>34940522
The way you are speaking pretty much shows you dont know what the hell you're talking about. Shut up

>>34940522
once again DDG51s have 2 surface search radars both of which are used for navigation and targetting. whether you don't like that or not doesn't matter it is just the truth. If their automated missile controls are primed than they have to turn off all sensors when near a port too avoid a false positive.

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>>34940544
are you seriously this insistent that ships don't have navigation radars, and that they use their weapons radars to navigate, and that their weapons/nav radar combo has to be off all the time lest the missiles and guns automatically track and fire

>>34940572
he is not me but;
yes it is probable. both collisisions happened near port. if their surface radar suites were even in passive mode they couldn't have been intercepted without automated avoidance collision systems warning and possibly steering away.
there is no other reason they wouldn't be running their radar suite other than due too overly aggressive missile postures forbidding the use near ports.

>>34940572
Thats not at all what im saying. You are obviously legitimately retarded and dont know what you're talking about as evident by the crude, basic level jargon you're using. The image you used further cements the fact that you are a cancerous, retarded, newfag

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>>34940587
the actual likely explanation for not having radars on near ports is that 99% of ports ban the use of radars near them for radhaz reasons but even then it's usually only while actually alongside, and radar usage is okayed once you're off the wall

it also still doesn't explain
>why you would use shitty nav radars for weapons training
>why you would use (probably 3d) weapons radars for sea navigation
>why you would ever automate weapons firing instead of requiring command authority/orders to shoot something
>why they didn't have AIS up
>why they weren't listening to traffic station about other vessels hitting checkpoints
>why they turned across the bow of a tanker close enough to hit them
>why they didn't open their literal eyes

>The AN/SPS-73(V)12 provides for signal processing and automatic target detection capability.
>The AN/SPS-67(V)3 and (V)5 variants additionally provide a quick reaction automated target detection and track capability to the MK 34 Gun Weapon System (GWS) in surface engagements, low elevation air engagements and Naval Gunfire Support aboard the DDG-class ships
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=2100&tid=1287&ct=2
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=2100&tid=1275&ct=2

ergo, both are used for navigation and both are used for targetting

>>34940662
>>The AN/SPS-73(V)12 provides for signal processing and automatic target detection capability.
>>The AN/SPS-67(V)3 and (V)5 variants additionally provide a quick reaction automated target detection and track capability to the MK 34 Gun Weapon System (GWS) in surface engagements, low elevation air engagements and Naval Gunfire Support aboard the DDG-class ships
none of that says anything about navigation and "automatic target detection" is just DETECTION not completely automated completely command-free weapons firing

>>34940636
low frequency short range passive radar is used near ports normally. both of the DDG51s surface search radars can be set to passive (which is nearly undetectable through EW).
I can't begin to unfuck your angle bracket text. Although, the main deck would have been cleared of men due to SOP while the missile controls are primed. They should have been able too easily see the tanker from the upper deck railings where the deck watchmen are stationed.

>>34940670
maybe you have to read the data within the links you were provided faggot. i'm stressing in my last post that the only two surface radars are used for target controlling.

>>34940697
>can't even cite a source properly
why should i ever listen to you or your son ever again

>>34940705
because i'm so fucking good
and my wife's son ain't half bad either

>The world STRONGEST navy
>REKT by a CIVILIAN vessel
>TWICE
ayyy lmayonnaise
at this point I would be more afraid of a belgian fishing boat then the USS SHITBOATS

>>34934638
Because the Navy would be stupid enough to buy ships that have two modes: Annihilate, and Blind

>>34934582
there was an 18 year hiatus in instruction with celestial navigation at the united states naval academy, so a whole generation of sailors missed out on an important navigation technique.
I don't think this is the main reason, but no doubt a contributing factor.

I can just imagine the results of such a fantasy arrangement:
>War were declared
>AEGIS ships switch to Anon's Automatic Annihilation mode
>get pinged by merchant nav radar
>SUNK
>Get pinged by E-2 AWACS
>SUNK
>get pinged by LAMPS III search radar sent out to recover crew
>SUNK
>get pinged by Tico sent out to investigate
>SUNK
>get pinged by radar return off nearby coastline
>NOT SUNK

>>34936256
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

>>34941017
nobody is saying the AEGIS missile system is totally haywire
only that it has prior false positives in automated targetting and firing in the past
therefore, while the missile computer is operational the ships must be on full emcon near ports
not that fucking hard to believe. the adverse (radars were on gets rammed) is impossible

>>34934785
Lies all day today huh lad?

>russian intel frigate gets sunk due to collision
/k/ goes bananas months of >slavshit threads
>2 destroyers rammed near friendly ports
/k/: chirp chirp

really makes me process 100 targets concurrently while launching defensive and offensive missile salvos

>>34941733
>/k/: chirp chirp
There were 8 fucking threads about it, and they weren't all full of damage control.

>>34934887
>All they're there for is to sort out blame after two ships T-bone, and warships are never at fault because a second warship is going to come by and blow the fuck out of whatever country said the first warship was at fault.

You mean PAY OFF the other party, right?
Mark my words. The US Navy will pay through the ass for the damage to ACX Crystal.

>>34939131
>And that modern commercial vessels have GPS systems that report their positions to the fucking internet right?

You mean AIS?
Well, a DDG doesn't report AIS, so there's plenty of ships out there that aren't on AIS. Relying on it would be retarded.
Also, constant real time AIS access costs money last I checked (though not much).

>>34941389
>therefore, while the missile computer is operational the ships must be on full emcon near ports
In case you're terminally dense: TURN OFF the missiles but LEAVE ON the RADAR.
>b-but same switch
That is not true.

>>34941933
>TURN OFF the missiles but LEAVE ON the RADAR.
automatic missile fire control takes a long time to boot in. radars are instananeous. they shouldn't have their missile battery controls operating in friendly waters at all but, they've been ordered otherwise.

the navy is willing to shit on the people they've ordered too endanger themselves because the trade off would be sudden missile attacks taking out an AEGIS destroyer before it can boot it's missile computer and synchronize it's radar.

historically your next response is:
>le proofs
than i say if their radar were operating and their battery was inoperable than they could not have been rammed

>>34941780
>8 threads on the day it happened
point being that there is now one or two which are being slid hard. while the russian frigate was an ebin meme posted to 5 dedicated threads for weeks and most unrealted threads for months.

this place is about as comprimised as you can get as far as government agency disinformation campaigns go

Heard a news report in passing on the radio, this morning that just before the crash one of the ships (no details on which) lost steering controls.

Anyone got any details on that?

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>>34934990
>you get all the same training
this is why no one likes blue rockets

>>34942608

CNN published that

How many ITT are in the Navy or have experience with this sort of thing? Asking for a friend.

>>34940843
fuck, i would dig that

>>34942549
Hey dipshit, what if it was just a software switch that changed canfiremissiles = true to canfiremissiles = false?
Switches don't have to cut power to everything.

>>34942593
>this place is about as comprimised as you can get as far as government agency disinformation campaigns go
Or maybe it's just mostly full of muricans who like making fun of the russians but get bootyblasted when its them.

>>34938636
Churchill said that.
The USN has been dry for years upon years. I don't know if there was ever the lash.
Sodomy, sure; that and drug abuse was all the NI(C)S ever deals with in real life.

>>34934950
Shut the fuck up you fucking faggot.

>>34939449
1:7 correct.

>>34942705
I am. I'm not the only one.

>>34934638
>>34934790
>>34934638
You need to stop posting. Don't answer technical questions with asspull and supposition when a real answer is probably only minutes away

>/lit/

>>34941933
>TURN OFF the missiles but LEAVE ON the RADAR.

Several different radar systems. Fire control, target acquisition and tracking. And plain old nav radar. Same kind of set that a cargo ship or fishing boat has.

Plus AIS. Why not? It would be a simple matter to squawk a fake ID and change it from time to time. Other shipping traffic sees that there's a ship and avoids it, but can't identify it.

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>>34934601
>sexuality determines how good you can nav a boat

>>34945401
>hurr durr I'm retarded and can't understand mental illness

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>>34934940

Holy shit I didn't come here to laugh this hard.

Americlaps, you don't have to go to such extend to try to excuse yourself for this. It's ok, accidents happen, it was a fuck up, the more ships you have around the more they will. Just stop, it's cringeworthy.

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>>34934940
>refuses to change course
>navigates using loud yelling
my sides

>>34934601
Here's your (fuck off), Phil

ITT: people that have never worked with AEGIS but feel completely qualified to explain why it didn't work

>>34939836
this must be a joke, right?

>>34934958
Didn't a Vic class collide with the sea floor?

>>34935598
If a missile was moving at Mach seven, and the ship only had a 12 mile radar horizon, both of which are untrue, said missile would not reach the ship for more than thirteen seconds, which is well within the reaction time of a human operator. More likely for modern threats, assuming the SPY-1D can spot sea skimmers 45 miles out and the missile is going at most mach 3, the operator has a minute and 20 seconds to react. Anything fired from closer than twelve miles will get shot down before it even gets up to speed.

This is why there is no reason for anything but CWIS to be automated, and even that has to be armed by an operator or query before firing.

>>34946244
your logic and math is flawed. CIWS isn't stopping shit especially not a nork mrbm. the destroyers are patrolling near the ports primed and ready with their computers to begin launching dozens of SAMs at missiles. All they have to do is turn on all their radars and the computer will handle the rest. while everyone is looking up they get rammed.

>>34934601
back to /pol/, faggot

>>34937538
Command staff are related?

Does that not set off warning bells?

>>34934601
Fitzgerald damage control officer was a woman and she did a great job. But so apparently was the officer on deck during the collision.

>>34948747
Six out of ten Mexicans have Sanchez for their last name.

>>34939864
you say xD
But in reality you're crying and visibly shaken. I win, again. Please respond

>>34947191
I didnt say CWIS would stop anything, I was pointing out it's the only thing that makes sense to have fire automatically. Everything else can be hot and ready to go and all you need is an operator to authorize the missile launch(es). Only reason to have radars off is EMCON, as there is literally no reason to have the computer make the fire/dont fire decision based on whether the radat is operating.

Its like saying you are in a dark room with a pistol and a flashlight, but when you turn on the flashlight it may or may not fire the gun whether you want it to or not. In other words, you're an idiot.

>>34934582
90% of the people there treat their job like every fast food job and stand there and do nothing

>amerikkkan navy

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Looks like someone got FIRED

>>34950069
>white guy

no wonder he got fired. a spic or black man cant be fired

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>>34934601
>It crashed because of trannies!!!!! ZOMG!

Fuck off /pol/ you're not welcome

>>34938600
ok but how do you know absolutely that this incident is the fault of gays/transsexuals/women. Please show me some proof.

>>34938770
Your country's navy is really gay too, every single one is, they're just better at hiding it. Just look at prison, when you put enough straight men in a confined space with no women you're bound to get some butt fucking. More women in the navy is probably the healthiest thing you could do for the poor lads.

>>34945434
>hurr durr
Enjoying your summer vacation anon?

>>34934638
Radar dosen't matter. They still know where everyone else is, because literally every other large civilian ship has it's radar on, by maritime law.
> Passive ESM Sensor suite (Gives direction and rough range of nearby radar)
> Maritime traffic linkup ( similar to https://www.marinetraffic.com )
> People standing watch (Most important one)

Even with passive sensors only, they know EXACTLY where anything larger than a rowboat is, from miles away. After the Fitzgerald, ships would have reviewed watches / posted more of them to try and prevent this thing, lest other captains get their careers hosed.

Sabotage of some kind might not be totally out of the question. One ship is an incident, but two is a problem within such a short time period. Poor seamanship and fatigued sailors is a partial explanation at best.

Wikipedia says this class of ship has a crew of over 250 people. What the fuck is so important during peacetime that they are still overworked?

>>34950069
I'm not surprised but it's the usual reaction, isn't it? I mean, it's not like he can do anything about retarded sailors.

>>34935160
>Mach 10 missiles
>thinking 5 in will just fire on its own
>there is literally a two key lockout that CO/TAO must turn for 5 in to fire.
>kys
-Active duty EW (I know what missiles exist)

>>34950737
Passive systems don't give range, but there are lookouts with NVGs and OSS (Optical Sight Sensor) aka a fancy camera that all of CIC can see outside of the ship.

>>34950737
>Radar dosen't matter.

I imagine that every naval ship has, in addition to its weapons radar, at least one navigational set. Similar to what every cargo ship has.

During peacetime, the weapons systems may be turned off. But nav lights and radar would be on. In fact, any ship running around without regulation safety equipment (radio silence) would be more suspicious than one with a standard Furono running. And it's not like they can't be visually identified when squeezing through the shipping lanes around Singapore anyway.

If the fleet commander really did give an order to shut down ALL RADAR in these conditions, he's an idiot and deserves to be fired.

>>34934603

This. Arrogance. Thinking everyone needs to get out of the way. It used to work. It doesn't any more.

Learn to avoid other giant hunks of metal out on the seas. Any pilot that has a collision should be immediately hung on the deck for all to see.

No more collisions.

>>34950764
Lol do you even know what a proxy war is?

>>34934844
Tanker (landship) here. Can confirm. I would always make sure my gunner/loader got at least 10 hours sleep if I knew we had a fight the next day.

I would cross LD with him sleeping in the turret and would only wake him up when crossing into bad guy territory.

It is called having too much money.

Who cares about some damage if you can just build another? Fuck navigation.