XM25 is kill

>>33880297
I think the basic idea is the next step forward in infantry weapons. But in its current form it's just too heavy and impractical. Same was true of the OICW it comes from, and the XM25 was better than the OICW. Hopefully the next iteration is better enough to be worth while.

>>33880297
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT, WHY NOT JUST MODIFY EXISTING 40MM GRENADES AND RIG UP A LASER SYSTEM TO WORK WITH 40MM! I mean fuck, we need to bring back Comissars, with the Authority to KILL these fucking retards.
>F-35 budget meeting.
>Lockmart Rep. "I'm sorry, but we need 5 more years and 400 billion dollars to make the F-35 work!"
>Door opens.
>A man wearing a black storm coat walks in.
>"I'm sorry what was that?"
>"I said we need 5 more ye..."
>BLAM!
>The Lockmart shill head explodes as a 10mm round punches through it.
>The rest of the cabinet are stunned into silence.
>"Now gentlemen, are there any more projects that have gone grossly over budget?"
If we had Commisars, we wouldn't be stuck with a shit rifle that keeps getting Americans killed, a fucking Air Force full of useless shit, and we would have won the "war" on terror 10 years ago.

>>33880297
I keep trying to tell you niggers that small arms technology has plateaued but you won't fucking listen to me.

>>33880451
>Comissars
>USA

It ain't Russia man. Also, stop pretending to be a spergy 40k fan because you saw the previous thread about fictional weapons. Pretending doesn't make it any less cringy or autistic.

>>33880473
Ultra high velocity caseless munitions!

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Countries with OICWs:

China (QTS-11)
North Korea (AK74 hybrid)
South Korea (K-11)

Countries without:

America
All of NATO
Japan

>>33880451
Oh shut up faggot. Go live in China or NK if you want to have your shit pushed in by a commissar.

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>tfw this starving Nork will defeat US infantry squads in a firefight

>>33880297

It got some limited export to the UKSF, so it'll be around in some way, and I don't imagine the US Army will just throw them away either.

Pity it doesn't go bigger though. It's always good to have the option.

>>33880501
>China (QTS-11)
Propaganda that they'll make like 12 of and never use.

>North Korea (AK74 hybrid)
Obviously a fake mockup, just like their paper mache missiles

>South Korea (K-11)
I'm pretty sure those have an exploding problem. And I don't think they're airburst grenades either, just HE 20mms.

>>33880501
Countries that have actually fielded them in combat .
>The US

Countries that haven't
>Literally every one else

>>33880297
>In March 2013, elements of the 75th Ranger Regiment refused to take the XM25 with them for a raid on a fortified enemy compound in Afghanistan, sources familiar with the incident said.

Oh no, I bet they didn't take any M110s either, we should throw those out too. Different tools different jobs. Dumb fucking journalist.

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>tfw this CHinese Marine fire-team will wipe out any crayon eating jarhead platoon with ease, as they enjoy a significant firepower advantage over them

>>33880451
40mm grenades don't have a flat enough arc of travel. getting a grenade where you actually want it is equal parts skill and voodoo.

> former M203 user

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>>33880540
China, for one, fielded them against Somali pirates and against terrorists in central asia.

>>33880451

I'd agree to the commisar idea if they'd start with shooting all the window licking w40k autists like you.

>>33880555
Are there any photographs that aren't chink propaganda photoshoots?

>>33880540
Pretty sure the South Koreans field tested it a bit

that faggot was 14 POUNDS? and they wanted to replace the M4 with it? whos idea was that?

>>33880631
General Shinsheki. General of all Good Idea Fairies.
>i dunno

should have been treated like a heavy weapon and given a dedicated heavy weapons team in a Infantry bn.

>>33880643
This. Also it shouldn't have been semi-automatic. Just make an American version of the KS-23 feeding from mags and slap the airburst computer optic on it. Would save a lot of weight and cost.

>>33880643
>should have been treated like a heavy weapon and given a dedicated heavy weapons team in a Infantry bn.

And here I thought that was the plan the whole time. No wonder this project moved as slow as molasses.

>>33880687
nope.

they wanted it to replace a m4/m203 combo.

>>33880525
Nigger you can tell that its a mockup in that very picture.

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>>33880528
>shit even has corner shot

>>33880451
A U T I S M
U
T
I
S
M

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>>33880501

QTS-11 isnt China's only airburst grenade weapon. The LG-series of AGLs all are capable of launching 35mm computerized airbursts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZip6hFL-V8&t=6s

At 1:39

>>33880552
This, 40mm grenades are all well and good for their own purposes but you can't really jury rig a 40mm launcher to do airburst shit in the way you can with a 25mm grenade.

>>33880631
Are you fucking retarded? Nowhere does it say that the XM25 will be replacing the M4. It's a dedicated heavy weapon for grenadiers. Replacing service rifles with it seems retarded, even for the Army.

>>33880710
Proof that it works? You know perfectly well that the Chinks and other commies make fake weapons for propaganda purposes all the time.

>>33880343
>I think the basic idea is the next step forward in infantry weapons.
Idea is already outdated. Next leap in performance would come from killer flying drones. No hand held line of sight gun can compete with cheat nature of drones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UiTwwyfVCw

>>33880451

this post gave me cancer

>>33880540

UK has used them in combat. And by "them" I mean XM25's, so the base point still stands that Asian countries haven't gotten them fielded and in combat yet.

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>>33880739
see
>>33880734

>>33880525
>when your 40mm operates on a mosin bolt

>>33880769
Oh I believe the AGL version works. That's not hard to do at all.

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Sino-Switchblade UCAV.

Soon to appear in your nearest anti-US terrorist's hands.

>>33880703
Wow, that's retarded. From what I've gathered, the XM25 is a fine weapon system, but it's just too damn big and heavy to be anything other than a specialists weapon.

When my dad was in Nam, he was issued a CAR-15 and an M79, which together is about 12 pounds give or take. Coming in at 14 pounds, an XM25 gives you some admittedly nifty targeting options, but at the price of a smaller payload, less ammunition, and absolutely no way to defend yourself with anything other than grenades. It's just not worth the tradeoff no matter how you look at it, and that's just comparing it to outdated CAR-15s and M79s. When you consider how streamlined the M203 system is by comparison, it only becomes more obvious that the XM25 just doesn't compare to traditional launchers in terms of all around usefulness.

>>33880735
There are two major alternatives:
put an automatically wall-sensing airburst fuse in standard 40mm (SAGM)
or
give up on airbursting, but give every grenadier a laser rangefinder sight that automatically calcs the range and automatically displays a POA=POI reticle (Israel and Singapore both did this).
or (a third!)
use platoon GPMGs to suppress, and then maneuver normally

Or, in long-range rural areas, have the plt/coy raven or 60mm mortar teams fly Switchblades as well for organic loitering light airstrikes.

Fact is every independent munitions corp has given up on 25mm for a reason 9except africa, where range is more of an issue and cover isnt). Even with precision, it just doesn't have enough bang. An HE weapon needs to clear a room, not a tiny part of a corner if you're lucky.

>>33880780
The Chinese haven't had an original thought between all of them in the last 120 years.

>>33880501
Why both with OICW when you can just drop a MOAB on the target?

>>33880843
Why bother with a MOAB when you can launch an ICBM?

>>33880833
Or make bounding grenade. Soviets had them since 1979...

>>33880525
>That looks pretty neat, lets take a closer look
>AK-pattern rifle on bottom
>What is presumably a 20mm on top
>Fuck-huge "scope" on top of that
>Obviously plastic back-end magazine
>A curved bolt that couldn't possibly rack with the scope still on
>Realize that the entire "grenade" assembly is just sitting on top of the AK's dust cover, they didn't even bother to make them the same size

Fuck, NK, get it together. When we war you, we want to have it last more than a week or so.

>>33880838
China built the LG5, a repeating, MV/HV 40mm launcher with a smart sight. It can put a round in a window at 800m every time.

That's a useful weapon. Attach 1 or 2 to the weapons squad and farm them out as needed.

Wacky 25mm boltactions are a relic of chinks cloning westerners too early, because it just happened to cross over with their own doctrine (HE for everyone). it's not an actual thing that's going to persist in doctrine.

>>33880850
Yeah, and they're worthless for indirect fire at close range. Bounding grenades are for rolling hills and snowy lands, not urban areas and hard cover.

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>>33880838
CH-X Wing In Ground Effect UAV missile carrier to attack surface targets with high speed long range torpedoes.

Pretty fucking original idea.

Innovation is no question of race or culture, but one of money and investments, as well as actual requirements.

>>33880451
wew

>>33880985

>Ground Effect
Oh, I didn't know it uses ground effect. I thought it was simply a sea-skimmer.

>UAV missile carrier
Is it recoverable in the event of mission abort? I've seen it described as an autonomous vehicle before, yet recoverability seems like the dividing line to me in determining whether or not something is a UAV.

>>33880985
WiG only works over smooth surfaces.

a random wave being too high or a building could cause it to plummet into the earth.

>>33881150
it can fly up to 3000m maximum altitude.

>>33880297
>already adopted and in LRIP as the M25
>ITS DEAD SEE DESE GUYS DIDNT TAKE ONE DURING THIS OBE TIME TRUST ME
>SEE? DEY CANCELLED DA XM25 ITS DED,!

Disgusting

>>33880801
Why do you fiddy-centers continue to operate here on /k/? You're venerating a country that allows no freedom of arms and is repressive as fuck.

>>33880801

Surely none will end up back in Xinjiang! :^)

>>33881191

Who else is buying it? I assume some will be put to use by spec ops guys regardless, that anecdote about the Rangers notwithstanding.

>>33881215

Because part of Chinese grand strategy is to have Chinese people exhorting the virtuous motherland everywhere. That's part of why there's so many of them. Ask Australia and Canada about it.

> Rangers decided a M4A1 was better than a MIC-funded smart grenade launcher
>Faggots still argue the M4 sucks.

>>33880487
>>33880518
>>33880716
>>33880759
>>33881000
>>33880582
>>>/lgbt/ is that way.

>>33881361

yeah you would know, you fucking queer

>>33880297
>Ranger units found the 14-pound XM25 too heavy and cumbersome for the battlefield.
14 pounds is too heavy these days?

>>33880552
>>33880735
So, Morters can't be airbursted due to their high trajectory? I've used M203's as well, and Mk.19's and a airburst feature would be fucking awesome. I think it's just the military shoveling money into a furnace.

>>33881393

infantry gets lighter gear, lighter weapons and lighter ammo, then they proceed to overload themselves with even more gear and ammo until they're destroying their backs and knees, and then they complain things are too heavy, same old story.

>>33881393

Compared to a 7-pound M4.

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>>33881361
>LE EBIN ANKRY SPEHS MUHREENS PURGE HERESAY FUGGEN XENOS GUISE xDD

Please do the board a favor and end yourself immediately.

>>33881370
(You.)
>Oh Tyrone fuck my ass while the Airforce pays for my sex change!
Do mankind a favor and suck start a shotgun.

>>33881442
No serve faggot, drink motor oil.

>>33881441
You mean a 10 pound mk 18?

Break-action under-barrel when?

>>33881361
being autistic gets flak
if you can't handle flak it's time to fly back to /pol/

>>33880343

Yes, hopefully it will have a positive legacy like Seawolf and Comanche.

>>33881419
mortars are stable and can be finely aimed. I've seen an army mortar team drop a mortar one on a specific tree.

M203s are wobbly things with crude sights.

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>>33881648

uhhh, now?

>>33880297
The 25mm airburst meme was well and truly refuted in Afghanistan, the grenades just weren't deadly enough for the job.

I think you'll see intelligent fusing for larger grenades next, even if the 40mm trajectory makes it a little harder to make the shot, the increased payload will make the grenadier more effective.

And for really trick shots, something like the Raytheon Pike will be used.

>>33880297

*rubs hands pentagonly*

Oh America, what has happened to you?

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>>33882747
> the grenades just weren't deadly enough for the job

Source on that, because I read somewhere that units with it ended fire-fights faster than they normally would have.

>>33881393
>14 pounds is too heavy these days?
Everyone has their own 4lb radio, 2 lbs of batteries. 3lb Trauma kit, 5lbs of rations, 25 lbs of armor, day and night optics + whatever their specialty calls for add another 10lb for ammo, 5lb M4, 10 lb of water, then 7 lbs for the backpack and tactical gear to hold all that shit together going up and down mountains. See how that all adds up?

>>33881174
then it isn't a WiG craft. Just a small unmanned airplane that can fly WiG.

>>33883481
it ended fights sooner because it rendered hadji's cover ineffective.

>>33883603
don't forget the spare socks, the towel, extra shit like multitool, e-tool, wet wipes, etc.

>>33880451
>If we had Commisars, we wouldn't be stuck with a shit rifle that keeps getting Americans killed

We're stuck with an M14?

>>33883811
>>33883481
>rendered cover ineffective

this, not sure why everyone thought this was going to be a full on replacement to the service rifle or something, and not just a squad asset in the same way that a squad has other designated roles with their own weapons

maybe one of these per 5-6 people, carried by a guy who also has an m4, and you're good, ofcourse indirect weapons cannot replace bullets

>>33880547
is that in between propaganda learning sessions?

How much military training do they really do?

>>33883884
It could very easily be a full replacement for M4's/M16's

What are you going to shoot at with a rifle, that wouldn't also be killed by an XM25

>>33883603
So spend a little money and give them an unpowered exoskeleton to take the weight off them

But I understand, infantry combat is an afterthought for the US military, they just wanna pretend to be rambo.

>>33883884
>carried by a guy who also has an m4
>M4: 7.5lb loaded
>XM25: 14lb empty
>Total weight: Probably 22lb give or take
>Not including ammunition and the rest of your gear

If I wanted to chew through cover that badly, I'd rather just issue M14s that have half the weight.

>>33883603
>>33883982
The short term answer is simpler than that.

Give some of your shit to your buddies and trust in them to stay with you. If you're the grenadier and all the riflemen are dead, you're probably going to be dead too so who gives a shit if you weren't carrying your own MREs?

Literal doctrinal retardation holding back progress.

>>33883982
What is
>cost

Money makes the world go round buddy. If money wasn't a factor warfare would be a whole lot fucking different. Money influences every decision of every country.

>>33884059
>Lol just make everyone else carry your personal shit

How to "fall down the stairs" in your single story barracks 101 right here.

>>33884075
Firearms is a tiny negligible part of the military budget

If giving everyone an XM25 means you win firefights, then its more than worth the money.

>>33884094
Okay, so the guy doesn't bring along his advanced grenade launcher that can easily kill things behind cover without excessive collateral on demand, so everyone suffers from heavy casualties in a botched assault when the chairforce screws up. Great job, everyone in that squad probably deserved to die, except maybe for the poor dedicated grenadier.

>>33884125
Why stop there? Why not give everyone GPNVG-18 instead of PVS-14. Cost doesn't matter right?

But back to the m4. It performs its role well. Why change to a drastically more expensive niche weapon? Yes, -NICHE-. What happens if you want to avoid collateral damage? What happens if there are civilians in the way? It's a fucking AIRBURST grenade. Not exactly the most precision weapon.

Let's also not forget while it has its uses its not end all be all. What are you going to do if you are ambushed in close quarters? I don't know about you, but I don't want to be belting off 25mm frags in closed quarters.

>>33884232
It's a small airburst grenade that meant to clear rooms. Obviously everything inside is going to die regardless of whether they are civilians or not, but at least it won't bring down the rest of the building and everyone around it as a PGM would do.

And it's a semi-auto grenade launcher. 25mm shot shells or slugs can be issued for those situations in two or three mags.

>>33880451
>le f35 is gossly overbudget meme
>badass 40k! for duh emperor XDDD
kys reddit

>>33884232
>What happens if you want to avoid collateral damage?
Then you push the button that says "Don't detonate" on the grenade, and fire directly at your target just as if it were a rifle

>What are you going to do if you are ambushed in close quarters?
Obviously it will have a minimum range, but if the round is specifically designed to not throw shrapnel backwards, then yes you could fire it at close ranges

>>33883876
>M14 sucks, M1 sucks.
>source my ass.

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>>33882642
ah, so what we need are some air-bursting knee mortars. The frogs are halfway there

>>33884897
You don't need this with an air bursting grenade launcher

>>33880552
>>33880735
>>33881419

People don't know anything about anything here jeez related

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/public_relations/news/latest_news/index_7104.php

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>>33880710
neat but various countries have tried that kind of eyepiece and it always sucked. US had the Future Force Warrior, France had the FAMAS FÉLIN, Germany had the IdZ-ES. They all got dropped because blocking your vision in one eye is a terrible idea. I don't think that this kind of technology will take off until we have good see-through HMDs. Think "google glass" but with a huge FOV instead of a tiny box.

Everybody's acting like this is some kind of proof that the XM25 is shit, but if you read the article you'd see the reason why the contract was terminated was because Orbital ATK didn't fucking deliver the prototypes the Army ordered.

Shit, the program is still active - the XM25 hasn't actually be cancelled yet, if it was they would have just fucking said so instead of telling everybody not to say anything about it. Clearly stuff is going on behind the scenes still. But no, let's believe faggot op, because faggot op said punisher is kill, and faggot op would never lie to us, right guys?

>>33884833
Not the guy you're replying to but:
>M1 sucks
That wasn't true in WWII. However,
>M14 sucks
is certainly debatable. Taking a WWII rifle, giving it a 20 round box magazine, and making it select auto is not a recipe for a successful rifle 15 years after WWII, especially given its contemporaries.

>>33880297
This appears to be a pure failure-to-perform (by the manufacturer, not the weapon itself).

That said, I figured the writing was probably on the wall when Raytheon came out with Pike, which is more flexible and actually has twice the range.

>>33884426
The F-35 is grossly over budget

that's a fact not a meme

>>33884426
Nigger the F-35 was supposed to be in service in 2012. LET THAT SINK IN.

>>33882683
That ain't 25mm though.

>>33883884
>>33883982
They really shouldn't be carrying a second primary around. Go all-in and invest in a semi-auto grenade launcher with high capacity and let him use it fully in place of a rifle. Let it be able to toggle the fuse so that he can use it like a low-velocity slug in close quarters, or give the thing a double mag feed system so he technically has a shotgun at the flip of a switch.

If you really insist on that man carrying a conventional firearm along as a backup, give him a big accurate pistol. Like... give him a modernized Mark 23 in 9mm.

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>>33880297
>stuck with 1950s small arms technology forever
>mfw

>>33886093
I agree with some of that, but I'd rather see them have a belt feed system with a backpack mounted ammo container with the ability to instantly switch to magazines if the situation calls for a specialized round. Basically have two fire selectors, one for safe-semi-burst, one for magazine-belt.

>>33882921

>*rubs hands pentagonly*
Doing this is not instinctive.

>>33885164
What the Christ is that over-sized abortion of a scope?

>>33886394
Rangefinder.

>>33886394
combo of scope, remote camera, and night vision. Some of them are FLIR, I don't know if that one is. Xboxheug combo sights like that are in most of these future-soldier projects

>>33886394
The future.

>>33884027
>issue M14s
Oh you mean the worst US service rifle ever?

>>33884833
M1 was an excellent rifle for its time. But it was a gun designed in the late '20s and introduced in the mid '30s. People tend to forget that. By the time the M14 came around the design was incredibly outdated. It's vulnerable to sand and mud, extremely difficult to keep accurized since you need to remove the stock to disassemble it, the dogleg operating rod is easy to damage, and the Fudd stock made it useless in full auto. On top of the big dumb cartridge that was introduced based on no objective evidence whatsoever, because US Ordnance was full of obstinate traditionalist Fudds.

The M14 was obsolete the day it was introduced. US should have adopted the T48 FAL in an intermediate cartridge.

>>33883982
Unless you can ensure there will be no prolonged combat, how much ammunition do you figure the average grunt saddled with that thing sill carry? Add in general expenses and lack of cross compatibility with underwhelming performance and you have little interest. Hell those shotgun shells with mini-grenades might be able to do that function better barring the air-burst aspect. thats while allowing for more flexibility in ammunition, and greater availability.

>>33885596
Killed? Nah, there will be salvaged research from it. Priority will sink though, and funding with it.

>>33880297
Isnt there that old shit about Seals using. Sawed off m79, and called it a pirate gun. Why not just use that?

>>33880801
I used this in MoH warfighter

>>33886783
>Want to supplement existing 40mm m320s with a longer-ranged semi auto launcher with smart detonation capabilities
>Dude, just use sawed-off 40mms XD!
...

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>Waaah too heavy
>14 pounds
>6kg
>Too heavy

This is embarrassing. Can't we just make soldiers lift some fucking weights or something? Bunch of pussies.

>>33886854
Youre being sexist

>>33880631
>14 pounds
>heavy

>>33886866
I'm not the sexist. Nature is.

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>>33886854
Rangers always bitch about ever ounce of extra weight because muh high speed low drag. Everything they give the Rangers is too heavy for them.

If they gave it to regular riflemen, it'd be standard issue by now.

And if they gave it to the muhreens, we'd have a picture of some grunt with his dick stuck in the barrel by now.

>>33886740
The XM25 is reported to increase combat efficiency by 300%. Just swap out your side arm with an MP7 if you still want a bullet hose.

>>33886884
>bitch about ever ounce of extra weight
light infantry is anything but light infantry.

>>33886897
XM25 with integrated P90 or MP7. It's the future.

>>33886900
That's too much for one weapon, unless everything is made with aluminium, carbon fibre and polymer, including the bullet casings.

>>33886910
>>33886905

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>>33886905
H&K is way ahead of you, bud. Literally 20 years ahead.

>>33880737
you misunderstand, the complete retards involved are worried about losing the M4 that the XM25 guy would be carrying. To be clear, these completely braindead fuck-faces are saying they would rather have one more fucking 5.56 barbie gun than an airburst 25mm launcher, and they're also saying that 14lb is too heavy for the limp-wristed faggots assigned to carry these things.
Basically they're going to throw away the biggest leap in small arms tech, because of a few whining faggots.

>oh you're hiding behind something? No, I'd rather fire 500+ rounds of fucking .223 than fire 1-2 25mm airburst rounds.

>yeah 14lb is too heavy and we can't afford to sacrifice 1 out of 5 dudes .22 magnum since we need 5 simultaneous hits to kill a housecat.

How did these people ever wrap their heads around LMGs? They don't even make explosions.
>you want us to carry the same damn thing as an M4 but 2x as heavy and maybe with more ammo? SURE!
>You want us to carry a sci-fi explosion launcher? TOO FUCKIN HEAVY DO NOT WANT.

I prefer my heavy weapons to be locked behind 7 layers of radio contact and authorization, with a high chance of blue-on-blue.
>t. American soldier

>>33886972
meant for
>>33880631
my apologies.

>>33886917
Except the OICW was shit. It doesn't need to be chambered in 5.56. Your buddies have that shit covered. Your primary weapon is the grenade launcher. In almost all respects, you should be using the launcher. The only case where you'd switch over to PDW mode is when things get up close and ugly.

The only reason to integrate a separate weapon is to save a little weight, some space on the operator's body, and valuable time when it's needed most. The reason to use a PDW caliber over conventional intermediate chamberings is so you can get more rounds per magazine.

Someone mentioned two magazines and a selector, one loaded with buckshot and the other grenades. That's also a possible option, but kinda shit against anyone with body armor.

>>33887024
>Except the OICW was shit.
I'm not disputing that at all, I was just pointing out that an XM25 with integrated MP7 was already considered in the late 90s, before it was even called the MP7.

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>>33880297
>chinks can make an airburst OICW that their retarded conscript cannon fodder can use
We really fucking need to stop giving the military a permanent blank check

>>33887062
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

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>>33886972
>sci-fi explosion launcher

>>33885766
according to an estimate made 16 years ago :^)

kys

I mean, its meant to be a squad weapon / force multiplier, right? So why the fuck is it being compared to a clean M4?

An M320 is another 4lb, every grenade is like 0.5lb.

So an M4/M320 plus a standard amount of 40mm is going to be much closer to the weight of an XM25 with a standard amount of 25mm, no? As more ammuniton is carried the gap gets closer, too.

>>33887271
>So why the fuck is it being compared to a clean M4?
Everyone asks similar sensible questions about every military decision ever.

One answer is that no, they don't know as much about what they're doing as they want you to believe. The other answer is yes, they sort of know what they're doing, but are giving you an excuse as to why they do or not do something so as to avoid telling you the real issue.

>>33887461
So what's the real issue?

>>33885766
>LET THAT SINK IN.
That sink can fuck right off.

>>33886648
>The M14 was obsolete the day it was introduced. US should have adopted the T48 FAL in an intermediate cartridge
To be fair the US should have adopted the Garand in .276 Pedersen.

>>33887683
I guess you could say we should let it wash out.

>>33887843
If we don't, the whole neighborhood will go down the drain.

>>33887271
This. An M249 is 17 lbs and isn't there at least one Squad Automatic Gunner in most squads?

>>33886905
>>33886917
Why would you need a smaller gun integrated into this? For what purpose?
Close quarters knife fights don't happen that often, and even then you'd just be firing the 25mm in it

You could produce shrapnel/slug/bouncing rounds for CQC too

>>33887662
Maybe they want to wait another 5 years and go with a different design, while some tech matures

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>>33888465

For the sake of argument, the SAW gunner isn't made to carry a second rifle with him. Plus, his ammunition is much smaller and lighter than 40MM grenades.

Personally, I think 14lbs is acceptable, and like the M249 gunner, extra ammunition can be dispersed among the squad. Still, grunts are rucking enough weight these days. I can understand (and appreciate) why weight is becoming a concern. The weapon supposedly has range like a rifle up to 600m, so maybe just making it a sole primary weapon for a soldier makes sense. I don't know if that's the case, but if it is then 14lb seems fine.

How many 40mm grenades would be considered a full load out?

pic unrelated

>>33888707
The other thing, is that if you are firing to actually kill the other guy rather than just "suppressing" him while waiting for air support

Then the total amount of needed rounds is less

As they get more experience with these airbursting grenade launchers, they can slowly replace all rifles/MG's with them.

25mm AR uppers when

>>33888707
Entire application of the XM25, or airbust in general is different, though.

Right now if two squads engage each other, and both have decent cover, its a matter of keeping your opponent behind cover unable to fire back, before flanking or getting to their cover to kill them. This expends huge amounts of ammunition across every member of the team, and necessitates the use of a SAW.

If you can simply kill someone behind cover or in defilade without having to flank or simply get lucky when they pop their head out at the wrong time, thats a massive advantage, and doesn't expend hundreds of rounds of 5.56 to kill a few dudes.

>>33886648
>>33887755
I keep hearing that the m14 was terrible what was so bad about it?

>>33888971
the dude you quoted just listed all the things wrong with it. go take your meds.

ITT: No one reads the article.

HK fucked over ATK which lead to ATK not being able to produce the rifles in a timely manner, which lead to them violating the contract with the US Army.

>>33889058
>Burgers violating laws of law forever BTFO

>>33889178
What law was violated?

>>33881361
It's funny becausw homophobia

>>33880451
>pssh, nothin' personal doc

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>>33880297
And with that, the XM-29's legacy takes its last breath. She was truly meant for better, not for this world. Even if the XM-25 was just half of the original, it still bleed the same blood as the XM-29. She will forever be

A E S T H E T I C

but hey look on the bright side at least HK isnt getting more money for their bullshit

>>33888662
The role of an airburst weapon is to kill the enemy in those rare moments where you know exactly where they are and have a chance to fire a precise shot at them.
If the guy with the 20mm doesn't have a rifle as well, then 99.9% of the time he's going to be sitting around with his thumb up his ass being useless.
He can't lay down suppressing fire because he's not carrying enough ammunition.
He can't help clear a building or fight in close quarters because his weapon isn't effective at close range.
He can't defend himself if he sees an enemy face to face.

It's a very specialized weapon that isn't really justifiable if it's too cumbersome to carry a rifle with.

>>33886884
Integrate NV or IR into optics. Rangers would jump at that shit in half-a-minute.

>>33890252
He can kill enemies behind cover at a pretty decent range though. Not that enemies use cover when they open up on your squad... The XM25 would become the infantry A-10, should it become standard issue for designated grenadiers. Wouldn't take long to get A1/A2/AX mods for it. Next move up - Smart mortars. This will happen, but not this century, apparently. You can start blasting your horn about "muh necessary exoskeleton" now.

>>33890252
>in those rare moments where you know exactly where they are and have a chance to fire a precise shot at them.


pls.

Just because current doctrine is """"fire superiority"""" firing everything you have in a 150 degree arc from your position and calling in CAS doesn't mean pinpointing an enemy is difficult or rare.

>>33890252
>Literally exactly like the M32 MGL

>>33880547
>Delusions of grandure. The post.

>>33884912
Not wanting your own air burst knee mortar?
Not wanting to praise your emperor Hirohito by raining down fiery death from your cozy foxhole?

>>33886854
You do know that even if you're strong, it's still better to have lighter gear, right? Or are you actually that stupid?

>>33887755
True. Still wouldn't have been intermediate enough, but better than fuddy-aught-six.

>>33888971
See >>33889009

>>33890521
I really wish the knee mortar concept had been more widely adopted. Seems like an extremely practical weapon for how simple it is. Especially when you can fire standard frag grenades out of it by just screwing on a propellant charge.

>>33886854
Combat load is pushing what 55kg?

>>33886854
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>33890614
>>33890735
Don't bother. The people who make this argument are wannabe macho range queens who have never actually had to hump gear for extended periods of time. They think that just because their M1A doesn't feel too heavy when they're shooting for half an hour on a square range that it's fine for soldiers in the field.

>>33890362
>but not this century, apparently.
100 years ago tanks were a radical new concept only just beginning to prove themselves. There are still 83 years left in this century, so...

>>33890745
If WWIII broke out and infantry combat got heavy in at least one theater, you'd see XM25s, I bet.
>Theater
Great. Now I imagine John Wilkes Booth air-bursting Lincolns lodge. Fuck.

>>33890815
nice self tag there

>>33886854
>carry 100 lb of gear
>what you can't handle a rifle that weighs twice as much, just work out you pussy

t. bench shooter

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>>33880451

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>>33885164
>Think "google glass" but with a huge FOV instead of a tiny box.

>Crosscom activated

>>33886740
>how much ammunition do you figure the average grunt saddled with that thing sill carry?

You can put other grunts to carry ammo too, just like it happens with the M249.

I wonder how much buckshot you could fit into a shell made for this thing. It's basically 5 bore.

>>33886093
>mark 23 in 9mm
Why would you want something that pointlessly large?

>>33882747
That was the XM29 OICW, which had 20mm grenades.

>>33890142
20mm was confirmed shit. the XM25 is at least an improvement.

>>33890913
Maybe leave some of that gear behind pal xd

>>33885130
that is fine and all, but a XM25 is still easier to use to put a round exactly where you want it, compared to a noob tube.

>>33892944
An "XM40" firing the 40x53mm round would be just as accurate

>>33886868
It's pretty obvious they were worried about female soldiers not being able to carry them around so they canned the project to not upset the SJWs.

>>33880824
>he was issued a CAR-15 and an M79

Most M79 users were only issued a colt M1911 with a couple spare mags and that's it. So your anecdotal example is useless.

>>33880451

Ignoring the rest of your cancerous post, they do have smart 40mm's.

The two that jump to mind are the Raytheon Pike and ARDEC's SAGM.

>>33880801

>China copying the US, again.

They even act like it's a badge of honor somehow. Labeling everything "Sino-something" or "Chinese (name of something American)". Stop playing catch up and learn to innovate on your own.

>>33893132
RAINBOW
A
I
N
B
O
W

>>33880734
Range of TB grenades also grew larger, maybe they've even gone Russian and preferring it