Survival Thread Cont.

>>33211189
>>33174206
Now git gone

>>33211210
It's dead.

>>33211289
Well then read it you may learn some shit.

civilization has become more advanced and comfy faster than evolution can keep up with. that feeling you have is your primal, survival instinct wanting to be put to work. that instinct is kicking and screaming while being dragged to the retirement home. soon enough we won't even have need for capitalism as we will all be driven by the quest for knowledge and explore space for infinity.

>>33211563
Already did, m'dude.
Posted around 20 times there.

This is cont. of the thread.

>>33211635
You should have said and posted the link, silly Billy.

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>>33211189

>>33211657
sorry dad :(

>>33211673
Pretty sure this has been confirmed BS

I want the apocalypse as soon as possible, but only because I am going to die soon and I'm narcissistic enough that I want everything else to go with me.

So what do people wanna know in this thread?

Can we try and avoid arguing over the viability of EMPs and rather how we prep now what we prep for.

Zombie apocalypse would be maximum larp and aesthetic, but it won't happen.

On another topic, is a 22lr good for SHTF? Or must be 556 or 762?

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>>33211673
>People are still posting this bullshit some Slav made up to sell books
DEBUNKED
E
B
U
N
K
E
D

>>33211754
I've got a few small guns, since in the case of SHTF I'll be making my own weapons.
>3d printer for smaller caliber weapons.
>mill for larger calibers.
>enough gunpowder for around fifty thousand rounds.
>jigsaw for stocks, etc.
>self-feeding welder and solder.

Steel door, 2 inches.
Unattractive house in the rural area, with barred windows, and I've got a steel shutter installation kit in my garage.

About six months food in canned goods, a diesel generator, and a room in my basement that I thickened with concrete in the case of shelling/bombing/nuclear bombardment.

I'm pretty sure shit will hit the fan between 2020 and 2030.

>>33211823
I see. Pretty cozy. But what if you need to bug out? And do you have a tribe?

>>33211708
Cross posting my shit with a tl;dr
Get chlorhexadine or Triclosan for external wound and for skin cleaining. Hibiclense is shit that you can buy for full body decolonization for MRSA. Have a lot of small gauze, ointments, oils, lotions, and baby powder for skin irritation.

If anyone needs a good place to buy medical shit or ask about buying it... Pet stores, Amazon, and walmart's medical section might have it.

>>33211865
Aye, I've actually got a group of around 15 people that're prepared to meet up and bond in the case of an apocalypse.

Sticking together is the most important.
We'd agreed that I'd take in 7, and one of my close neighbors will take in the other 7.

When do you guys s will htf?

>>33211787
I wouldn't use .22lr to hunt deer if I had another option.
So I sure as shit wouldn't rely on it in a self-defense scenario if I had another option.
It definitely wouldn't be FUN to get shot with it, but I wouldn't trust my life to it.

>>33211787
all of them you fool. must stockpile every round.

>>33211823

Start a garden if you have a closed off backyard, if not, get some potting soil bags, open one side and start growing some indoor plants with UV lights. Corn, Beans, Squash, Potatoes. Lasts through winter and untill next harvest, corn can be dried and turned into corn flour for bread, beans can also be dried. This will greatly prolong your food store. Also, buy some mason jars and learn how to can.

Set up a system to your roof that causes rainwater to collect in large barrels, this will greatly extended your water supply.

you live in a rural area, if you don't have a good 12 gauge or .308 get one for hunting game. raise some livestock too. Get some chicken for a reliable source of eggs = protein and fat. Plant some nut/fruit trees and obfuscate them with a shit ton of concealing plant around them so no one will realize their a source of food at first glance.

>>33211954
I've actually got a small backyard garden with four 2x3m planting boxes, and 500 kg of black earth in my garage, because I don't want it to get contaminated by whatever it is that happens, be it ash, fallout, anything,

Good idea for the chicken coop and the rainwater from the roof, I might actually consider that.

I've got a wind turbine enough to power one refrigerator and a radio.

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What's your situation?

>Supplies (Rations, Resources, ammo in and of itself)
>Capabilities (weapons/tactics, vehicles/transportation, personal skills/attributes)
>Community (location, population, and tribe - those you actually trust if SHTF)

Explain and rank each one out of 5, for a total of xx/15.

>not stockpiling factories with machining equipment so you can manufacture arms and ammo after the apocalypse
are you plebs even trying? lol

>>33211985
wind turbine is a great idea and is a nice switch up from the Solar meme, have you tried storing some block batteries and charging them with the turbine when its not in use?

>>33212047
actually not!

Good idea, mate.
I'll potentially harvest some from the local car dump.

How many do you think I should have to be supplied, yet safe from any mishaps?

I'd say 6 tops.

>>33211787
for hunting small game and maybe taking pop shots at people from inside fort because you have 100k rounds of 22lr

but as the only rifle? fuuuck no. they have a tendency to fail being rimfire and killing large game or defending youself only with a .22lr is a bad idea.

get a decent handgun and at least a beater ar-15. the only reason i recomend an ar-15 is because they are everywhere, parts are everywhere, mags, ammo, optics, other ar-15s are everywhere in the usa.

now if you have the means to acquire a large ammount of ammo or extra guns or parts, a .308 would be great, like an fal or something, or hell an AK-47.

>>33212069
you can have a shit ton of them stored up as long as they are kept properly sheltered, like this guy has-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF-O_xy-f_A

>>33212034
with what electricity, oil, materials, extra parts, machinists, and armed security?

Five star post right here I tell ya wuuut
>>33211708
>qualified medical fag here
>>>33210744 (You) I doth fucking agree. Just remember don't pop the blister.
>MRSA and bacterial skin infections are contagious and are easily transmitted. Here's some shit to consider buying medical wise.
>Hibiclense:4%Chlorhexadine. Kills staph, MRSA, used it as decolonizing skin wash on my family from a case of communicable MRSA. If not available in your area, try the local pet store, and look for the 2% mouth wash or the 4% shampoo. Either of those are viable. If you can't get Chlorhexadine in 2% or higher, go for Triclosan. Triclosan at 2% has better killing powers than 4% Chlorhexadine. Benzalconium chloride is now taking over from Triclosan since its not hard on your thyroid. I haven't read too many tests, reports, or field trials of BZK but it sounds alright. The only thing is you can get it in the tiny hand wipes and that's it.
>PIRD drawing salve. It can pull whatever sub-cu infections and intra-tissue shit out like nothing. It's useful for every day shit as well like small infection on the fingers and the like.
>Spray saline. My Walmart has some spray in irrigation saline. It's useful for a flush in the eyes or in random shit.
>When considering superglue, have quick setting superglue, like the 10 second stuff or faster. Then also have the 1 minute super glue. 1 minute is good for final seals and shit on larger wounds and keeping stitched wounds sealed. 10 second is great for closing small cuts and the small blood vessels if requiring simple surgery. Cyano-acrylate loves water. Like, it solidifies on contact with blood and water. Use it smart-ly.
>Most injuries are going to be minor shit that you don't want to see get bad. Very few times will you need a full kit. But many times, if left untreated, the simple shit nobody complains about like blisters and cuts on the hands and feet can get bad fast. Duct tape, skin care shit like zinc oxide, sunscreen, etc, will be life savers.

>>33211189
Thought this was a good question so postin gin new thread.
>>33212275
>requestan a good book on natural hunting and processing of hides for leather, if anyone is into that here.

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>>33211725
>Pretty sure this has been confirmed BS
>>33211788
>People are still posting this bullshit some Slav made up to sell books
Lot of very valuable info there no matter if he lived through it or he retold other survivors stories.
It's like that book "One Second After" Obvious fantasy fiction but you can't deny it is about exactly just how shit would play out.

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>>33212550
>One Second After
>A horde of Satanist bikers held back by good ol' Republican values and a core group of protagonists that are never wrong about anything over the course of the book

>>33211909
I honestly think May Day, May first the commie holy day is when it all comes apart in the USA. The leftists have been working so hard from with in that Trumps victory crushes all they were readying.

I honestly and sincerely think May Day will be the day the commies start their revolution. I just hope the patriots wake up fast enough cause the commies usually win these little wars they start then they go and kill opposition by the tens of millions.

>>33212381
I've dealt with this shit before just wanted to help people out. I am not a medical practitioner, this is not medical guide, use at your own risk, if you give your pt. sepsis its your own fault. If you aren't provider, don't do it.

How to clean a MRSA sore at home/SHTF.
Step 1, assess the sore, how red is it, is the skin on the top breached or not. If not breached, then wait for it to pop open or squeeze like a pimple or lance with a style 11 scalpe. This will suck. Just do it. Drain and let the sore go for a day. If breached or already opened, move to step 2.
Step 2 determine the size of the "core" and try to figure out where the "stock" or "stem" is. It generally goes into the muscle/tissue around and more often than not, is going to the closest lymph node.
Step 3, hydrogen peroxide the green puss ball cyst. This dries it out slightly and helps make the stuff more sticky. Alternate between numbzicane spray and hydrogen peroxide.
Step 4, hemostat the son of a bitch. You're going to grab it, and pull out. You should hear and feel a fiberous ripping sensation and sound and should take about 5 pound of pull. This will suck for the pt. Have them held down or numbed up good.
Step 5, the pt will be bleeding from the spot where the cyst like shit was removed. Use ice, TQ, or water depending on the situation. Peroxide helps. Do 2 flushes of peroxide and water/saline. Otherwise Do this within reason for the spot and how much work can be done that day. If you see the green snot looking stuff, remove it if possible. Dig a little with hemostats and cue-tips.
Step 6, fill wound with anti biotic ointment. Take a bandage, cover in PIRD drawing salve. Place bandage over the top. Apply heating pad, vibratinng UV light thingies, or whatever. Other than that topical anti biotics and if you have them broad spectrum anti biotics if they work for the infection. EG Augmentin.

You will have to repeat these steps daily for a while.

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>>33211954
>Set up a system to your roof that causes rainwater to collect in large barrels, this will greatly extended your water supply.
Make sure this is legal in your state. People go to jail for this in the land of the free. We have it set up[ so we co0llect 500 gallons of rain water in the basement and just pump it when we need it.

>>33211890

Go away Sootch. Your youtube sucks and you're autistic too.

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>>33212794
>Be American
>Take a sip from a bucket in your backyard you accidentally left out in the rain
>Life in prison

>>33212753
Notes on this.
Step 1, redness helps indicate if its an infection or a hair folicle blockage. Generally skin sores will be a little red but MRSA will be redder and over a larger area. My dad's stomach redness was about 6 inches lateral 4 inches vertical from a sore the size of a quarter.
Step 2, Eliminating the stem early on shortens treatment time significantly because the most of the MRSA is in the green shit and the stem infects the crap around it. The core/cyst is a ball of dead shit pushed to the skin.
Step 3 and 4, try not to dig around with the sharps. Just use cue tips, slight, peroxide, and hemos. Only use blades to make the initial entry and to remove tough connections. Spreaders might help.
Step 5, 2x2 and 4x4 gauze help with clean up. Only TQ on fingers, hands and feet. Makes life easier and numbing easier.
Step 6, don't pack with gauze, the blood, fiber, etc binds to the gauze. Making you have to rip more shit open and exposing the pt to sepsis and generally sucks for the pt otherwise. Put the salve'd part of the bandage directly over the wound. You only need about a dime size to a nickle size of it. Just like the bad pimple trick, use heat. It helps with the cycle of healing, promotes blood flow, and mild pain management. Chlorhexadine in the wound works as well as on the bandage. Save it for hand washing and body decolonization. If supplies limited, use on the wound and for hand washing. Don't put triclosan in the wound.

Side not on AB's.
This will kill the good germs on the skin and will open the pt to secondary skin infections. This is called the anti-biotics cycle by some. Secondly, whatever you kill first round with AB's will be resistant second time around. MRSA will come back like a crazy ex. It even comes back on the dick if you shave improperly and nick yourself down there. The smallest cuts, nicks, ingrown hairs, etc become sores. Quarantine them and put the pt on light duties to prevent this. This also minimizes spreading it.

>>33211754
I'd like to talk about how one could fortify a variety of positions without needing a combat engineer team and heavy equipment/explosives.

The end of the world shows where a group of assholes shows up and just blitzes the good guys irritates me.

>>33213451
Use sand not dirt. Sand has more friction than dirt. Sand doesn't dissolve while dirt does. You need more dirt than sand to stop bullets. When I was in louisiana my parents would run off to get sand bags during the emergencies. If they don't have a public sand lot to do this, buy some bags of sand and fill the sandbags at your house. Chicken wire/mesh over windows to prevenent grenades from being thrown in and from glass from coming in. If you have blind use those paper hole punchers on the peices on the corners so that you can have the blinds down and you can peek through a tiny hole without giving yourself away. Most shots will go high, so sand bags along the wall 2 or 3 up and if you crawl/slide between position you should be okay.

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>>33212693
>>33212693
You didn't read the book.
The stupid forced plot lines are irrelevant to how accurate the timeline would play out just as he describes.
I've read everything about massive civilization ending catastrophes both fiction and that book is about the best for how the dominoes fall.

Do you know about the saturation point when FEMA and the DoD stop trying to maintain order and they pull back to rallying points for their own self preservation? You have no idea just how bad things are anon.

>>33213451
>>33213540
Masking tape in an X pattern helps prevent the glass from breaking in from a rock/projectile. Doors can be hardened with the steel insert security devices that are drilled into the wood on the frame. You've got 2 options if they're attacking your home. Its either shooting at them in the street or shooting at them when they try to make the salient. 2x4's get expensive quick, have a few, just calc it out for 2 per window on the first floor. If this isn't the case, make a plan to steal someone's fence post or yours if wooden. Interior doors are sometime hollow, sometimes not, if they're not you can use those. Shelves can be used for fortifying. Book shelves are great. Wooden tables if parts can be sacrificed otherwise bed frames can be used. Nobody really cares if their bed is on a frame on not provided its still a bed. Key holes to shoot from the attic are cheeki and sneaky.

Door jams are a great thing. Hinges and the strike plate are the most vulnerable part though. Be prepared to repair this with liquid nails later after a forced entry.

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>>33212892
This shit is going on world wide. Fucking Nestle inc has half of south american water rights locked up. Stop acting like it isn't coming your way where ever the hell you call home.
If Trump doesn't unfuck the fed gov here the entire planet is doomed and they get their "sustainable living" depopulation programs going all over. Go ahead and laugh if you want, won't stop it from coming you way. They want 7.3 billion people dead by 2025.

>>33213633
>saturation point when FEMA and the DoD stop trying to maintain order and they pull back to rallying points for their own self preservation

Not the anon you're arguing with. Saturation point sounds like "Cobalt" from Fear The Walking Dead where the military pulled out of the fenced neighborhoods they'd established in the middle of the night and left the civilians behind, and the rumor an NYPD cop brings up in The Strain where the state government in Albany has relocated to some caves behind 1,000 National Guardsmen against the vampire pandemic.

Are you in emergency management or is this 'saturation point' a made up term in One Second After? The actual unraveling of society in fiction is fascinating to me and there's been few that have satisfied me with how they've done it.

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PROS for: SHOTGUN platform

1: Close combat defense

2: Hunting capable

3: Extremely Common ammo
_______________________________
CONS for: Shotgun platform

1: Large, heavy ammo

2: Long gun can be a con

3: heavy

4: The least ammo effcient for Buggin

5: slow reloads

_________________________________

22Lr-.22WMR

PROS for: .22 platform

1: Hunting capable

2:Quieter than other competitive options

3: the most ammo effcient for buggin

4: lightweight

5: magazine capable
________________________
CONS for .22:

1: Rimfire ammo can malfunction

2: little to no combat defense.

3: short range

_________________________________


Pros for: Pistol/Handgun

1: extremely lightweight,

2: very good for buggin

3: can swap barrels for 9/40/357sig (not .45)

4: extremely common ammo

5: combat defense capable

_________________________________

Cons:

1: not hunting capable

2: only good within a short range

_________________________________

Pros for rifle platform (5.56/223/7.62

1: hunting capable

2: can reach out to longer ranges

3: decent ammo capacity for buggin

4: magazine capable

5: combat capable

_________________________________

CONS:

1: Loud

2: can be heavy on ammo


/k/ help me with this,
Im making the pros and cons list and would like you to add onto it,

Im trying to figure out what prep gun would be the best for me after i complete this list by analyzing my own wants/needs by various circumstances and location.

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>>33213633
>You didn't read the book
No, I definitely read it. I groaned out loud at it ending with the main character crying while the town sang the National Anthem. I wish I hadn't but I read it. Shit, shit book, with a shit, shit obvious self-insert protagonist.
Yes, the timeline is written within certain intelligence estimates of the US power grid going down. Doesn't mean the book has any merit as a novel.
The studies that inspired the book are better reads than the book itself.

To say nothing of the fact that he's actually not correct about certain aspects of EMPs and how they'd affect electronic devices.
>All vehicles in town are kill except 2 cars and a plane that are old enough to be stronk
>even though cars' electronics are inherently shielded, which anyone who knows dick about electrical engineering knows

The grid itself is done if a large-scale EMP hits, mostly because the grid is mostly composed of power lines that act as REALLY long antennae. The shit in your house would mostly be fine. Most cars would also be fine.

>>33213787
Saturation point is just a term for when emergency resources can no longer make inroads to rescuing people and providing order. It's a frightening low bar anon, scary low. FEMA and the DoD have their well being all mapped out. Our biggest problem in the US is that we have over 30 million people who have never provided for them selves and have not a clue how to. You saw them sitting in their own filth during katrina.Waiting for someone else to help them instead of helping them selves.
Think about how fast people like that will deplete resources when the supply chain stops supplying.

>>33213894
0/10.
Go away, anons are LARPing here about the end times and how we are going to become Gods among the starving.

LARPing is all well and good, but I'm fucking terrified of SHTF -scenario. I got two kids so thats like extra hc difficulty mode enabled. Especially in a bob -situation.

Current plan is bugging in with closest friends and family. Got two competent friends and their SOs along with my SO and two kids, so thats six adults, three of which are useful and five civies.

Primary location is an apartment in a big city, so not optimal by a long shot. Secondary location is a cabin around 70 miles away from the city on lakeshore. I know I can make it to the cabin in like three days if need be but I have no idea how to get there with the whole group and supplies...

How do I git gud at preppin'?

>>33211189
>Anyone on here legitimately hoping for an apocalypse?

Honestly speaking, no.
>A nuclear holocaust, or Yellowstone?


If you put a gun to my head and I was literally the deciding factor? Nuclear for sure. it's surprisingly more survivable.

>Preppers, what've you already got?
Not as much as I'd like. I just did the math and I don't even have a week's worth of water (fixing that tomorrow morning). much less enough food to last a month.

What kinda reaction do you get when you tell people you prep /k/? I've found that people tend to think I'm fucking looney toons for stockpiling shit like food and ammo and I find the attitude baffling af.

A friend of mine recently saw my stocks and her reaction after initial confusion was to laugh and ask why I'm wasting money on "useless stuff". I personally think its pretty much a given to be prepared for a disaster if you're a sane person.

I really hope for a nuclear holocaust hitting the US.
That way not only would you stop exporting your bullshit to the rest of the world, 4chan would also die and I would be free at last.

>>33214334
Why *would* you tell people? Most people are just like your friend, clueless and mocking you right up until something happens and then you get to replay that old Twilight Zone episode "The Shelter" where they expect you to share, and won't take 'no' for an answer.

People who want to get others prepping should look at social engineering techniques to do it. Bring up saving money by cooking with simple staples like rice and beans, and how good and healthy they are. And how you can buy lots of them for cheap at warehouse clubs. Tap into the localvore eating movement by getting them into gardening. Or how food travels from far away and loses nutrients and shelf time versus fresh picked stuff from your own garden. Maybe talk about how home gardening gets you the varieties not available in stores.

*Never* frame the discussion with any hint about survival, and the normies will accept it because it's not *scary* or *weird* or anything else that'll go against that sheeple programming.

Don't worry about guns. Better you the only armed person in a sea of urban gardeners than a bunch of armed people with hungry bellies.

A 5 gallon bucket of pool chlorine crystals would make many thousands of gallons of bleach for water purification so you could supply the neighbors easily enough if you had to for cheap and take care of that need.

>>33214334
My guess is shows and other media like memesday preppers sending mixed signals that while it's not a bad idea to prep for disasters, the people who tend to prep are whacko gun nut conspiracists prepping for some specific unlikely event and spending several k on meme shit they'll likely never use. Even though there's literally nothing wrong with prepping for some kind of potential disaster. You can use Katrina as an example for why it's necessary and they'll still find a way to scoff.

Also I don't get any reactions. I'm a penniless soon-to-be collegefag in the burbs of NYC. Wish I could prep but I don't see how.

>>33214420

Well I don't tell people per se. People just see my stuff and go wtf why do you have all this stuff in your garage.
Gonna invest in some proper crates to store my stuff in so its not sitting out in the open soon.

Also if SHTF fuck beggars. My stuff is strictly for family. I'm pretty sure the few people who know about my stash wont even be able to make it here when they can't get here in their comfy cars.

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How about instead of a bug out bag you have a bug out boat? Something like pic related can house 5-6 people pretty comfy. Also lots of small islands around so could island-hop around, fish and always be ready to get mobile. How viable would it be whatchathink?

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Pic related is Aquarium antibiotics. No perscription needed, you can buy it at a pet store or ebay, amazon, ect ect. Probably not as good as pharmacy shit but in a pinch it will be worth its weight in gold. Amoxicillin Doxycycline and Azythromacin should have your bases covered for almost any infection. Pick up a doctors desk reference book to figure out which types of infections to treat with which.

>>33211189
I want a new ice age so only us highly evolved white people survive.

Winterchan pls come.

>>33214637
PROTIP: amoxicillin is what doctors give you to make you shut up when they don't think you really need antibiotics.
Most shit that actually requires antibiotics is so suped up by overprescription at this point that they'll laugh and laugh at your weakass fishmox.
It's actually a serious problem.

>>33211189

Hell yes ! It would make my year haha

>>33214752
protip: amox clav beat down a seriously advanced cellulitis in my arm when i had no health insurance. eventually had to go to the hospital (of course) and they said they were afraid it was going to spread to my heart and become fatal so i got bumped up in triage. iv antibiotics 24 hours and 2 weeks amox clav beat down an elephantitis sized cellulitis infection that would have taken my life. that and a $100,000 hospital bill that forced me into bankruptcy.

if only i'd had the amox clav from the start, now i keep antibiotics on hand for the future.

don't be a larping faggot, there's a reason amox is the number one antibiotic.

>larping

So larping the new insult around here? Autistic, sperglord, fedora and cuck worn out?

>>33214778
>if only i'd had the amox clav from the start, now i keep antibiotics on hand for the future.

you need t know which infections/bacteria to treat with which ABs friend. otherwise you are more part of the problem than the solution. Don't self medicate. Just go to Canada and have yourself checked out and hospitalized. The go back. it's their fault when they allow it, not yours. If you want to keep ABs on hand for SHTF, you need to researh them and keep a printout ofrelevant intel on hand with the bottles at least.

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>>33214788
I use "cosplayer" for pic relate. It's sort of the same though....

>>33214778
The "clav" in amox-clav is clavulanate potassium, which is an antibiotic effective at fighting bacteria resistant to penicillin-type antibiotics (like amoxicillin).
I can't really tell if you're agreeing with me or not but doctors aren't gonna prescribe straight amoxicillin for serious infection. Fishmox is straight amoxicillin.

>Anyone on here legitimately hoping for an apocalypse?
No, not an apocalypse per se.

Just widespread social unrest, almost but not quite civil war, to hopefully wake us up from our stupid hugbox reality where the first response is to ban everything.

I just want us to value freedom again. ;_;

t. Australian

>>33214141
>Primary location is an apartment in a big city
In a big city .
How doers it feel to be fucked before the race even starts.

>>33214334
>people tend to think I'm fucking looney toons for stockpiling
>Telling anyone your plans
We call idiots like you convenience stores in the prepper community.
>>33214420
>A 5 gallon bucket of pool chlorine crystals
I see you.

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>>33211189
It's the scenarios you can't predict that will the be the worst.
AI gone completely mad and mucking the infrastructure hard.
Biohackers make a self replicating organism that emits protein breakdown enzymes stopping all other cellular life , or a least a least chunk of the food chain is eliminated.
The grey goo self replicating nanobots gone wild.
A carbon black coated asteroid the size of a continent smacks the Earth at the last minute after detection.

>>33214843

Adult illiteracy is no joke anon. Get help soon.

>>33214843
>>A 5 gallon bucket of pool chlorine crystals I see you.

Inferring something anon?

http://survivaltopics.com/better-than-bleach-use-calcium-hypochlorite-to-disinfect-water/
Idea looks legit.

>>33211725
>>33211788
I always read this but never see sources. Tried looking on my own but didn't find much.

Not trying to be a douche, I'm legitimely curious.

>>33214921
...Why not just boil the water?

>>33214752
I dont read before I reply: the post.

>Amoxicillin Doxycycline and Azythromacin should have your bases covered for almost any infection.

Theres the important part your lack of taking your ritalin made you miss.

>>33215028
Amoxicillin generally doesn't do shit for infections because most are resistant to it more was my point though. Fishmox in particular isn't gonna be a big help.
Absolutely, research different antibotics and have different kinds for different infections.

>>33215062
If youve got a little kid screaming and crying because they have an ear infection and it hurts you would be plenty happy to have a full course of amoxicillin.

>>33214956
>...Why not just boil the water?
you may not hav the time, fuel, supplies for it and may not want to signal everybody you#re there.

>>33214921
bleach having a shelf life and poolshock aren't really news.

>>33214478
Do you know how to sail? If so, then it's doable. Just realize that you're going to need to sail by the biggest worst-hit port cities (indeed, all up and down the coast). It also offers you nearly zero potential for shielding and you're a floating target. Anyone within a few miles can catch you if they're gas or wind powered (and know how to use it). Carrying guns is an option except many foreign ports authorities will take them and the ammo too and lock you up for terrorism.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/322101/fears-in-fiji-ammo-find-could-be-linked-to-terrorism

>>33215284
>http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/322101/fears-in-fiji-ammo-find-could-be-linked-to-terrorism
>hand full of .223 burrets any civilian can own even in Europe
>ZOMG TERRORISM PLS SEND THE NAVY, HALP!!! PLS!!!!

Sometimes you just want to beat people with a stick until you have beaten some sense into them....

>>33215284

>SHTF
>It's basically an apocalypse scenario
>Port authorities

The fuck are you on about m8.
And if its only local/passing disaster then you just ride it out on some comfy island off the coast before going back to rebuild.

If you for some reason decide / need to become a refugee you obv don't sail into a foreign port rocking AKs in full operator cosplay.

>>33215350
There won't be people watching the coasts

Literally all it takes is 8 dudes with AKs and an inflatable raft with outboard motor in a Somalia-type mood to completely ruin your day though.
16 dudes with AKs in 2 inflatable rafts with outboard motors? Game over, man.

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>>33215366
>mfw forget to meme arrow first line

>>33215366

Yea and if you bug in at your house it only takes 8 guys with AKs (don't even need a raft) to fuck you over? What's your point?

Most likely the small islands around will be much less likely to have roaming bandits than your home street.

>>33215366
>>33215350
dunno, if you have the funds to own and sail a yacht, you probably can afford a few guns yourself. something like 300wm, 338wm or 338lm precision rifles with good scopes, or even a berrett maybe, would be pretty useful in helping keep boatniggers at distance.

>>33215380
I'm gonna have a lot more people around to lock down my house and neighborhood. They're called "neighbors"

Honestly I'm a LOT more worried about wildfires than roving bandits.

>>33215366

Also good luck to all the somalian pirate larpers to sail to the ass end of a scandinavian archipelago in a fucking toy boat.

>>33215380
the ocean is huge. it would take experienced sailor to find you or just stumble across you. if you know what you are doing, have the gear like desalinators and have GPRS, a sailing boat is a pretty good bug out location.

>>33215396
>scandinavian archipelago

Leif Erikson pls; that area can't just sustain your life.

>>33215404

Wat? Yes it can. People have been living there since forever.
Gonna be an apocalypse-viking fuck yeah.

I have a plan but sadly at the moment that's pretty much all it is, I'm in no position to really survive shit at the moment.

>>33214334
HIDE your shit and learn to shut up. You must be young. Exterminate thinking like a young person. They are horrible little piles of retarded hormones.

Seek a youthful body and a very adult mind.

Don't show anyone your stuff. After your next move, hide that shit.

Hide that shit.

Stupid kid.

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>>33215425
Gonna be a dead guy when me, Charles Vane 2.0, boards your dinghy.

>dfw you were not born during the age of piracy in the west indies ;_;

>>33214462
Why do people see what's in your garage? Don't invite people into your home. Crates suck. You can use innocent shit like (not plugged in) chest freezers for storage.

>>33213869
The ideal is an accurate 5.56mm rifle with a suppressor and a reasonably long barrel, paired with a 9mm pistol that is also suppressed.

>>33215366
>Literally all it takes is 8 dudes with AKs and an inflatable raft with outboard motor in a Somalia-type mood to completely ruin your day though.

That requires fuel, patrolling, fuel, time, and did I mention patrolling? Being sea out of sight of land solves that shit in a realistic manner. Piratefags forget if trade isn't moving there's no benefit to piracy.

>>33215450

Why not join my viking fleet?

>Not raidin' an tradin' with your /k/omrades
>Not brewing mead and roasting boar after successful raiding trips
>Not fucking blonde scandiwaifus and producing healthy boys to expand your village
>Anon pls

>>33215471
First thing, we kill all the LARPers and autists. We torture the autists. They deserve it.

>>33214778
If only you had health insurance.

>>33215455

>Don't invite people into your home

Bruh, some of us aren't full time paranoid autists.

Good point about the freezers tho, thanks for the tip.

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>>33215397
>>33215391

What the fuck, I'm going to make having a boat my main plan for the apocalypse.

>2017
>Not spending the apocalypse like pic related
>Instead squatting in a basement like a rat
>Absolutely plebeian

>>33215570
>not sailing a trimaran
>not being the mariner
>absolutely plebeian indeed

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>>33215616
forgot pic

>>33215622
>not having gills
Does he even sail?

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>>33211189
Is there any sort of huge SHTF book?
Like a collection of knowledge on really basic stuff, like farming or sterilizing water, that the average person wouldn't have the opportunity to use or learn in their daily lives?
>>33211673
>>33211725
>>33211788
You keep saying it's BS, yet the info in there is more corroborated than you're claim that it isn't.
>>33211754
Long term food storage.
>>33211787
No, .22 aint good for nothing but teaching children and killing tree rats.
>>33211909
There will be a Great Depression 2. The great recession was never fixed, just put off until later as we acquire more debt, more regulations, more taxes, more wars, and more civil unrest.
>>33212033
I have about 6 months of food, and 9,000 rounds of ammo. Water will kill me though.
And I live in the liberal suburbs of central Maryland.
I plan on bugging out to rural northern MD where my friend owns a home and all his neighbors are farmers.
>>33213869
Semi-auto rifles in intermediate calibers do everything except conceal easily.
>>33214334
I don't prep enough for it to scare people.
I also don't tell a lot of people cause I don't want to get murdered by a gaggle of wild niggers if the stock market crashes.
Also, you should tell her that it's not "useless stuff", it's the stuff she uses every fucking day.
>"wow you have a lot of toilet paper and water, you must be a crazy person!"
>"no, I just like having toilet paper and water."
>>33214348
Jackie 4chan would start another server up.
>you're here forever

>>33216002
>huge SHTF book
>Prepping 101 for idiots
good idea.
if something like this doesn't exist, then maybe a prepping veteran should work on one? easy bucks, really.

>>33215570
Small personal boats tend to get BTFO in bad weather though. Even if it doesn't outright sink it will sustain damage. Damage that in a TEOTWAKI scenario you won't be able to fully repair.

I'm not saying boats are useless, in fact far from it. I just wouldn't plan on spending the entirety of SHTF on one, it's just transportation to get from A to a safer B that can also sustain you on the trip and potentially not need fuel.

>>33216281
>Small personal boats tend to get BTFO in bad weather though.

you are not supposed to sail the bering sea or alaskan waters in it dude.

>>33216294
Because the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, or the eastern seaboard never get hurricanes and tropical storms?

Because [any patch of water anywhere] doesn't get gale-force winds with 5m+ rollers?

The big waters of the Atlantic, Pacific, and the Great Lakes routinely sink 100+ foot commercial vessels with modern engines and a whole plethora of working electronics with large crews even to this day because of bad weather they don't 100% have to be out in, but are due to either the unpredictable nature of weather or bad judgement calls. I mean fuck, it doesn't even have to be an ocean or Great Lake, commercial fishermen die on the Mississippi, Missouri, and Ohio rivers every month due to bad weather.

>>33216325
Yet somehow mankind has sailed for thousands of years.

Life is not certain, but you can reduce risk by not doing stupid shit.

>>33216325
exactly. ou'd be cruising from island to island, following coastlines in the caribbean, basically never getting further away from land than the distance of the horizon. in case of stom, you then would be able to go on land. know your limits. in SHTF, weather services will not be available to you.

>>33216347
Such as trying to live off a sub-50' sailboat in the middle of the ocean instead of hugging the coasts and ducking into a cove during bad weather, right?

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>>33216002
>>33216267
need to just google, really.
pic related.

>>33216386
I'm looking for something I can both read, and have with me.
I don't want to have to print out an entire website.

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>>33211632
>born too late to explore duh earf
>born too early to explore the stars

Life is suffering

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I know I've posted this before but new people mean different points of view any issues with this BoB?

I will not as I have before this is a two person kit, my wife and I we are planning on bugging in this is just in case.
Green means I already have it
Yellow means I'm partially acquired it or its on route.

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>>33216468

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>>33216468
>>33216474
Why don't you just have 2 BOBs, one for each person?
>even if the world ends, you're still going to be carrying your wife's shit around

>>33216487
Because I don't see the reason I'm us doubling up everything. The two kits compliment one another meaning that no one person is carrying a ton of weight.

>>33216468
you have literally no water, hence you die rather quickly. my recs, per person:

>sawyer squeeze filter set
>aluminum/stainless canteen + cup
>regular plastic canteen
>6inch fire steel + striker
>Bic lighters
>water purification tablets for 5l of water a day for one month
>container of 150g of poolshock
>3l Camelbak Antidote bladder
>knife (mora companion/bushcraft, CS SRK)
>petztl taktikka headlamp + sets of spare batteries

>>33216525
>>33216474
Erm hey buddy did you see the second picture here?

>>33216539
>Erm hey buddy did you see the second picture here?
no, point still stands though.

>>33216539
I will say yes I'm looking at getting a canteen and cup as well. It's just not on the list currently

>>33216546
Literally the only thing I'm missing in the canteen and cup, I'm not going to bother with an additional plastic one as well.

>>33216553
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/french-m47-canteen-with-cup-and-pouch-used/5358

>>33216555
I was just planning on picking up a cheap and cheerful one from Amazon if I'm honest.

>>33216573
link?

>>33216581
I was looking at this one. Almost identical but it's in dollars and I get free shipping which will run cheaper in the long run.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000YO5OZS/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1488819644&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=aluminum+canteen+and+cup&dpPl=1&dpID=41GMFrtBT%2BL&ref=plSrch

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>>33216510
Bicycles would make moving the weight much easier. You can push or ride them basically anywhere you can walk. The gooks did it despite bombing and strafing.

>>33216573
>>33216581
Not sure if this is what you guys are talking about, but this comes with a canteen, canteen pouch, battle belt, mag pouch (fits 3), and suspenders. I got mine for $20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P40SAJY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

>>33216628
Oh I know I'm looking at getting some good ones but for the time being my feet will do me just fine.

>>33216634
I mean I personally won't get that because it would interfere with my PCE.

>>33214804
For a couple of seconds I thought that indent in the side of the swat van was a glaive with a retardedly huge lade and for a moment I seriously thought that one of the swat members had seriously brought a glaive to a breach and clear....

>>33216002
>No, .22 aint good for nothing but teaching children and killing tree rats.
I can put a 22lr into your eye at 70 yards 10 times out of ten. Same for a deer. Tell me more about how 22lr is worthless. Only caliber easily suppressed so I could get several head shots off before alerting others.
Just like ounces make pounds, quiet counts. Quiet counts a lot.

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>>33216468
>>33216468
PCE gear

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>>33218502
>I can put a 22lr into your eye at 70 yards 10 times out of ten

>>33218984
Global rule #2
You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

Using a reaction pic of a huge anti 2A rights leftist on /k/. Your a special kind of loser there kiddo.

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>>33219132
I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings on this internet message board. I'm off to go kill myself now.

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>>33216463
>born just in time to experience civil war

>>33216468
>>33216474
Best situation is you have supplies cached in a few places. Most of us aren't in the kind of shape we can toss 80 pounds on our backs and flee to saftey. Be honest about your physical condition and plan your movement out.
Do you have a place in mind to flee to? If so cache supplies near that so you can travel as light as possible when the time comes.

>>33220102
Honestly my current situation this is more of a "oh shit here comes a hurricane" kit because of where we live. I'm not really in a situation to sustain myself long term.

Should shtf go down I'd probably bug in as long as I can, then we would bug into the woods until it cools down then circle back home.

As far as fitness goes I should be fine I ship to basic for the US Army in June so fingers crossed nothing happens in the next year.

>>33211883
>>33212381
Reading your posts convinces me the smaller the group the better their chances. It is far easier to maintain hygiene standards in a smaller group and a clean body is the first defense to infections becoming a rel problem.

Hygiene will be a big deal if SHTF.

>>33213981
>Saturation point is just a term for when emergency resources can no longer make inroads to rescuing people

Rescue/emergency response is a very resource intensive field. This is why things like triage exist. It's also why mass casualty drills are a thing. The whole point is to allocate resources where they'll do the most good. There isn't some magic line in the sand where all first responders throw up their hands and head for some secret hideout to bunker down and ride out the happening.

>FEMA and the DoD have their well being all mapped out.

Do you have a source for this? A credible source?

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>>33214141
Spanishfag again, I'm in a similar situation, apartment in a big city and 400km (250miles) away from my cabin. I can make it in 10-12 days, i can carry food for 10-12 days... But my people will be a burden. I'm not leaving them behind, of course.

You have 2 scenarios: SHTF in your city or nationwide.

First case, almost everyone will leave the city. Traffic jams, assaults on the road for a car, people blocking roads, no gas... Probably walking it's the safest option. In this case your people have to arrange a meeting point outside the city, reunite and then walk (or drive if you can) together to the cabin. There are no phones, no mails. Decide a place and a time frame (we leave at first sunlight for example). Don't bother looking for food, meds, etc. before you leave. The people who stays in the city is insane, a danger to your family.

Nationwide, the city will be a chaos. Riots and looting. Not enough cops or firefighters (they have family too). Leave, same strategy and plan. Meet outside the city, use forest tracks if you walk. Firsts 2-3 days people will have food and water from looting, don't stay in the city, bug out. After that, resources will cost lives.

If it's your cabin, arrange a few things. Stock food, water (also water purification tablets, chlorine, bleach), tools, guns & ammo, containers to storage rain water, meds, hygiene items, batteries, torches, candles, clothes, etc.

Have a bug out bag, adapt it to your climate and needs, hike with it, use it and train, see what works and what you have to change. Make the family part of it, camp with the kids, hike in family, make it a game for the kids. Learn things and teach them.

Good luck, you'll be ok.

>>33211189
I don't want it to happen, but it will be the ultimate "i told you". I want to die old, in my bed, after an easy life... But if SHTF, i want it now. 30yo, i don't see me with 60yo able to survive.

In my humble opinion, 2027 +-5.

>>33214141
>How do I git gud at preppin'?

Start by examining your situation. Is your apartment in the likely affected zone of the most likely shtf scenario for your area? If so, plan multiple routes to your BOL. By vehicle, preferably. Have backup plans for travelling by bicycle and on foot. Include multiple layover points planned for each route and travel mode.

Most importantly, have an agreed-on trigger event. The idea is to stay ahead of the chaos curve. Shtf doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are precursors and warning signs. Figure out which one is your signal to pack up, and which one is your signal to bail.

If there's a random sudden shtf event, have an agreed-on number of hours into the event that everybody heads for the BOL.

Have a plan. That's where you start.

>>33214348
>I would be free at last.

Freedom ain't free, anon. You pay for it forever.

I will personally track you down and leave shitpost sticky notes on your basement door.

>>33211823
Between now and 2025 there will be civil unrest. In the 2030s food riots

>>33223307
May Day the commies move in all our big cities. Mark these words anons. Get ready.

>>33216002
>Like a collection of knowledge on really basic stuff, like farming or sterilizing water,

The Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery.

>>33220516
Large groups provided all are immune to mostly the same diseases you get herd immunity. Large groups can be okay provided you have some semblance of a separated medical group and a standard hygiene protocol and punishments for those who don't follow them. Most viral shit will spread around quick and die out fast provided their hosts die or gain immunity. Bacteria on the other hand is a bitch. A real bitch. You can't clean your hands, feet, ass all the time. So cut straight with your peeps, have a set guidelines for rules on injuries and hygiene. Rape them if they don't comply.

>>33224000
Trips checked
Any relation to R Lee Emory?

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>>33224909
SHTF happens
>Designated Sgt Major

>>33225356
>Thats my nut busting face after I rape some poor soul for not not properly scrubbing.

>>33224909
Personally I'd say if I had to make a "Dream team" it would probably be something like this.

I will note I would expect everyone to know basic first aid as well as be "competent" with a firearm I.e. not lose their shit when they pull the trigger and at least be able to put somewhat accurate fire downrange. Everyone should have at minimum a sidearm on them at all times and know how to access a rifle if needed.

>Medical 2-3 men
These will be responsible for monitoring hygiene as well. Doctors/nurses/EMT I'd say if you can have a minimum of one stay at base with a second going with the expedition force that would be best.
>Security 4 men minimum
I'd say this is your bare minimum in most cases with 4 men you can have 2 on days and 2 on nights. Again you can use other people to help bolster this.
>Trade
These would be your electrician your mechanics your carpenters, plumbers and builders. If you can get all of them awesome they can help teach others if not have books available so that people may learn.
>Expedition force 4-8 men
These will be your guys going out on longer patrols 1,2,3 days possibly. When back at camp they should be used to bolster the security and fulfill any specialist roles they may have on camp. You should not forfeit your security just to have an exped. force though. Security should be your priority.
>Farming 1-2
Daily self explanatory these are the guys that know how to rear animals and keep crops alive, if they know how to tend bees as well that even better.
>Hunter's 1-2
I didn't put these with the expedition force mostly because these guys shouldn't be going to far if possible. Keeping them local and only being gone for a day at most.
Additions you could throw in here are:
>Stores clerk
Responsible for monitoring food and supply use
>Pastor
Some people respond well to religion as a means of keeping up morale
>Cook's
Fairly obvious
>Repair specialist
For fixing clothing and possibly making new clothing.
>Gunsmith
Repairing/reloading

>>33225796
You're not going to have people dedicated to one job. There will need to be some cycling through jobs to keep people from going crazy/complacent. EG the TSA. They kept the same people on xray machines and the same people on pat downs and on tard wrangling duty. Its also to keep the boredom and stress away. EG trench duties in ww1. 1 week in the forward trench, 1 in the support, 1 in the rear. On top of this cross training is your best bet. Again another example is your SOF team. If Randy the RATELO gets down with the sickness, its gunna suck if other people don't know how to use it to call for medivac.

>>33225985
Well of course but there will be people can't do other jobs, yes they can teach other then we can get some cycling going on but for the initial part until things are smooth I'd keep everyone in the job they know. As time goes on and people begin to learn and adapt then I would look at moving people around

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Does being a single engine pilot make me effectively useless in SHTF

>>33225796
>>33225985
If S really HTF nationally like an epic months long power outage you will watch everyone you care about die or they will watch your death.

>>33226065
Now you need to change your Outlook embody your inner Royal Marine
>Courage
>Determination
>Unselfishness
>Cheerfulness in the face of adversity

What are the best options for a milsurp BOV as far as ruggedness and emp survivability go

>>33226251
Depends on the terrain you'll be covering, honestly most of the old stuff I feel should be fine, just get a stick shift.

I picked up a cool book on building log homes and structures.

And one about old tools.

Unfortunately both are at home.

>>33226451
Do you not know the names?

>>33213894
The main issue with modern cars is that most of them have a computer controlled ignition, these are small precision components that are unable to handle the induced currents from any strong electromagnetic field as they usually short out internally, older vehicles with mechanically timed or lower precision components would not be as affected.

It is true that if a car has a metal body, it would act as a Faraday cage to some extent, however the shielding is not absolute, case and point being that if you were to put your phone into the engine bay, on most cars, you will still have a signal.

>>33226645

Bullshit. Congress got scared, ran tests, found out most cars work just fine after an EMP. Might need to restart the engine, but that's it.

Makes sense when you think about it, most modern integrated circuits are EMI shielded as a matter of course. Sorry if that ruins your and Newt Gingrich's prepper fantasies, though.

>muh one second after

http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

>>33226251
Would an m809 fit the bill or would I need something older?

>>33226280
Would an m809 fit the bill or would I need something older

>>33226715
Hell I doubt there's much that can stop one of those.

Type 1 diabetic here, not looking forward to dying in slow and absolute agony via ketoacidosis.

I'll sit this one out.

>>33214478
sounds comfy. why wait for shtf?

>>33214478
Mmm I just love scurvy

>>33225227
No

>>33226787
Type 4 diabetic myself. Stay strong, friend.

>>33226787
how long can you last before its all over?

>>33225796
You left out chronicler/record keeper. This person is also going to be your librarian, maintaining and expanding your reference library.

Your repair specialist should be a mechanic type. Tailor/seamstress would be a dedicated position that one of the unskilled labor types could work into. It wasn't that long ago that everybody was assumed to have basic sewing skills.

Come to think of it, you should have a laundry worker position. That would be the obvious choice for clothing repairs.

You also left out general labor positions. The people who dig ditches so your skilled workers can do skilled thing.

>>33226036
No. Hydrogen is easy to make, and lighter than air craft are a thing.

>>33226645
Cars will be just fine. They're not big enough to collect a significant amount of EMP energy.

>>33211883
I had MRSA a while ago, scary shit.

>>33227715
Oh is it? Tell me all about how you will collect and store this easily produced commodity anon.

>>33228368
How?

>>33228937
He was the tail end of a long gangbang of some passed out college sloot.

>>33228639
55 gallon drum and a 35 gallon plastic trash can. Wire a couple of weights to the handles of the trash can. Epoxy a garden hose into the trash can so that the female end is almost touching the bottom. Invert trash can into drum, fill drum with water. Use the hose to suck air out of the trash can until it's under water and full of water. Then cap the male end.

Make another rig, following the same steps and using the same materials. It's easiest if they're side by side. Fill a length of tubing or hose with water, put one end in each drum below the water line.

Take the leads from a solar cell and put one in each drum. Position each lead so that the ends are under the trash can. Easiest way to do this is to fish the leads through a piece of 1" or 3/4" PVC with a 90 and a shorter piece on the bottom. Have the last 6" of each lead stripped and splayed out if it's stranded.

I can't remember which terminal produces which gas, the can that fills up twice as fast is hydrogen. Use it as fuel, or make yourself a Zeppelin.

>>33230444
5 star post gets tripps, can't explain that.
Would rebuild civilization with you anon.

>>33226787
>having too much food and not enough exercise
Odds are the only people going keto in a SHTF environment would be going keto in a non-SHTF environment because they're fat lazy pieces of shit that can't follow a regimen or unass the couch for more than 10 minutes a day.

This doesn't mean you won't die in agonizing pain, just that you'll do it via hypoglycemia instead of hyperglycemia.

>>33227512
With a good food supply and the ability to move around, a type 1 diabetic should be good for years if not decades before a [most of a lifetime] of running high blood sugar fucks his nerves and veins enough to die of neuropathy when he falls down some stairs and breaks his face because he couldn't feel his feet.

In a situation involving a food shortage it could be as little as 24 hours before he goes into a hypoglycemic coma and dies though.

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Since we got one freat rponse so far today I'll put this out there.

I have a project I have been ignoring for a couple years. I have a few hundred of pis related, all sanitized and ready for reuse.

Want to fill with rice and or beans with seasonings and put on a shelf. I know if I can keep the humidity down when I fill them the rice / beans and spices are edible for longer than any of us will be alive.

What kind of spice mixtures should I be using, cooking is not my thing and there are so many possibilities. Help guys I'm stuck.

Thanks, anon.

>>33231460
Salt and whole black peppercorns will be your mainstays as well as the most likely to keep extremely well. Personally I'd do 5 of each.

I'd do at least 2 of plain old seasoning salt (table salt+msg), 2 of dried oregano, 2 of dried garlic, and 2 of dried onion. The rest could be a mix as you see fit, but those (minus the seasoning salt) are the seasonings I use the most frequently and they keep well.

The anon's Close Enough™ Guide to Storing Toilet Paper for SHTF:

First step: Figure out how many bogrolls you use in a month by yourself. For most men, it's somewhere around 5.

For every male that will be staying with you, multiply by 2.

Now, for every female that will be staying with you, multiply by 20.

For every female under the age of 25 that will be staying with you, multiply by 35.

For every person who has EVER demonstrated "toilet nesting" or who is a picky eater or who has food issues either behavioral or medical, multiply by 20 again.

Now double it.

That is your monthly shit ticket budget.

>source
I have a brother in law with 3 preteen daughters, 2 of which with digestive issues. Between him, his wife, his 3 daughters, and my wife they can kill a 48 pack of Charmin in 12 hours.

>>33231767
>Uses 5 rolls of toilet paper by himself per month
Jesus Christ son, literally get your shit together.
I use half of that, maximum.

tt

>>33231866
well excuuuse me for actually shitting every day. Cuz, y'know, that's actually good for you.

>>33232463
I generally shit twice a day, and am really meticulous about walking away from a shit with a clean asshole.
Sounds like either your asshole is a fucking mess, you eat crazy bad food, or you just straight-up use too much toilet paper.

>>33232605
Combination of I buy expensive floofy toilet paper that only has like 80 tickets to a "mega" roll and I eat a low-fiber diet so I get play-doh shits a lot that take way too much toilet paper to get clean from.

>>33225796
>>33227703
whores, if SHTF pimps will rule the world.

Specialization is good at this moment, lot of people, millions of jobs, techniques, etc.

In a SHTF situation you need skilled people who can do a lot of things and learn. You need scavengers, whores, doctors, nurses, chemists, engineers, handymen, farmers, hunters, soldiers and a brilliant accountman. You'll have a nightmare logistics with no computers, but don't worry, people did for centuries with no computers. Get an autistic IRS guy, savant type.

And yes, everybody should know how to shoot and defend his community.

>>33230444
Brilliant.

>>33231767
You use too much paper. Use dry and wet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yL3ZTSWFo

Sorry, annoying voice.

>>33232904
>Whores
Thanks but I like my group STI free if it's all the same to you.

Asking again
>>33231508
I grow herbs, garlic onions and several kinds of peppers. Been gardening long enough to learn how to harvest seeds for next year so not worried about those things.
Plus almost all spices we consume have been irradiated so they are good almost for ever.
> I want to use clean 12 ounce Grolsch bottles ( pic related >>33231460 ) to create ready to boil rice and bean dishes. What spices work together and what is the best mix ratio for a cup and a half uncooked rice which means 3 cups cooked.
I'm looking for interesting spice mixtures for 4 cups cooked rice. I would imagine I am hunting squirrel or some other rat like creature for protein if I was using these bottles of rice and seasoning so what do you have /k/...who can into cooking??.

>>33231767
Money and storage space wasted on TP is full potato. Well used flannel shirts turned into large patches will be what you use to wipe your ass. There will be more full closets to pillage than you can count 6 to 9 months after SHTF trust me on this.
This is why you want several dozen canisters of pool crystals. There is a reason I mention them so much. One canister creates almost 2,000 gallons of bleach / water that can completely clean shit rags for re use with out destroying the fabric to soon. Forget TP and embrace the washable shitrag anon. Seriously ... get on the prepper train.

>>33232605
>I generally shit twice a day
After SHTF you won't be eating enough compared to calorie expenditure to shit more then twice every three days. You just don't know anything.
You will be boiling varmints just for the fat so you can not only shit but not have every joint in your body screaming.

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>>33234414
>I tell anon he uses too much toilet paper per day and he's planning on stocking up and using way more than he needs
>"You'll actually be using EVEN LESS toilet paper innaSHTF so you're wrong"

>>33222697
kek

In my basement I have enough canned food and bottled water to get me through a year. Guns, ammunition, lumber for barricading my house. I'm actually cool with society and I hope there is no apocalypse within my lifetime, but I would rather have all this shit and never need it.

>>33234152
Oregano is a pretty reliable one if you can grow it. I've found I can throw it on almost anything and it makes it taste nice.

Bay leaves and rosemary are good for stews as well

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>>33231460
>>33231508
>>33234152
Post spice mixes for rice and beans or GTFO of our thread
>>33234616
Anon, I honestly wish that my comrades do not waste resources on shit tickets. Find cloth you can tolerate and start washing them out like a diaper cause no matter what anyone who lives long enough to run out of TP would say don't waste the resource.

>>33234860
>I would rather have all this shit and never need it.
Said every one of us bro.
Let me ask you, you sound set up but where you gonna shit anon?
>>33235824
I see what you did there.

>>33235838
Okay.
>salt and pepper
>oregano
>salt, pepper, and oregano
>seasoning salt and pepper
>seasoning salt and oregano
>seasoning salt, pepper, and oregano
There, happy?

>>33234365
>Well used flannel shirts turned into large patches will be what you use to wipe your ass

Or you could learn a little self sufficiency instead of running back into the closet every time you need to shit.

Learning how to make paper isn't hard. Making sheets with the texture of felt and the absorbency of paper towels is bonehead easy. You'll need lye and vinegar, both of which any decent prepper knows how to make.

Feedstock comes from mortgage statements, junk mail, and cardboard. In other words, anything made from unwaxed paper. Once you've gone through all of the junk paper products in your environment, you can use sunflower stalks. You do plan on growing sunflowers as part of your biodiesel set up, right? You can also use the glycerine byproduct from your biodiesel plant to lightly infuse your sheets of handmade TP. This keeps your bung silky smooth and supple, which you might consider to be a favorable survival trait.

Make the sheets in 9X9" squares, tear them into quarters for use. Keep a stack in the outhouse.

I'll leave it up to you to consider the trade possibilities.

>>33234152
Tandoori masala or garam masala.

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>>33211189
>live in Naples, Fl
>brag about how unaffected by yellowstone
>tfw 6,000 acre fire raging uncontrolled a few miles from my house

Time to go innawoo- fuck

>>33236218
>live in BFE Nowhere, MO
>can go innawoods
>can go innacorn
>can go innaMajorOzarkWaterways
>can go innacousin
>never have forest fires because it rains a lot and there's water everywhere
>never have riots because everyone owns a backhoe or knows someone who does
>rumor has it some people have successfully shot tornadoes to death
>threaten us and we'll unleash the denizens of Branson upon ya'll

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>>33211189

the idea of a global-scale apocalypse gives me a hard-on

>>33236245
Sounds comfy. I'm just down here for work, pile my shekals, then buy some land up in the mountains of PA or NH.

>>33236295
Comfy?

Nigger we have Branson. For better or worse, we have to deal with Branson.

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>>33236320
The only frame of reference I have for Branson is it being the lamest place on earth and pic related

>>33214141
Roof top gardens, Water bags, a chicken coop even if you can keep birds.

Figure out a way to secure the building and also your apartments.

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>>33236150
>Just make your own disposable napkins and shut tickets, some of the most egregiously wasteful symbols of modern decadence.
Why the FUCK would you put that kind of effort into making paper fucking towels when washcloths exist.

Seriousl question: do you have a mental disability?

>>33236757
This is /k/ do you really need to ask?

>>33236245
>can go innacousin
God damnit but I did

>>33236757
Because paper is a hell of a lot easier to make than fabric. Your flannel shirt shit rags will wear out and be gone within a couple of years. Especially if you use your bleach trick for cleaning and sanitizing. Bleach eats the hell out of fabric. Use it every day, your shit rag starts disintegrating pretty quick.

Why the hell would you destroy a useable piece of clothing to make shit rags? Do you have some kind of scatological compulsion?

TP is a hell of a lot more renewable than Kurt Cobain's wardrobe, doofus. It also looks like you missed the ramifications of being able to make biodiesel, and making TP from the waste products of that process.

You also didn't catch the part where I mentioned trade possibilities. Good luck trying to trade your bleached out ass rags.

Do you understand the difference between self sufficiency and scrounging in other people's closets? Exactly how stupid are you? Please don't breed.

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>>33237006
That's a REALLY long way to say "yes" when asked if you have a learning disability.

>Wear article of clothing
>Repair as needed
>When it is worn beyond repair, it becomes general purpose rag.
>Use until worn out, throw away.
I do this right now and have a giant "rag bag" in my garage. I don't wipe my ass with them or anything but I'd sure as fuck do that before your massively idiotic "make paper towels for trading" scheme.

>Get rag wet
>Wipe ass
>clean rag
>Reuse until worn out
I have dishrags that were years old when my parents gave them to me when I moved out on my own 5 years ago. They're still going strong and frankly wiping my ass is a lot easier on a piece of cloth than scrubbing dishes with it, to say nothing of cloth scraps.
There are so many non-retarded uses for your knowledge of making paper that aren't paper towels.

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>>33237006
I literally have 40-year-old towels in my house that I use everyday.

>>33237006
Is this that TOMMYTHYROID poster cause this isn't terrible.
normieees wouldn't see your troll.

All I want is a 5-7 day, full-on black-out in Western Europe (think of a nationwide black-out for you Americans)

I think it would seriously be for the better. Sure, the most vulnerable or isolated layers of the population (elderly and the like) would take a lot of casualties, which would be a sad and bad thing. But it might just change the slipped-in lazy mindset that modern luxuries are to be taken for granted, that came with the almost 75 years of peace in Western Europe after the 2nd World War. It made people lazy and change the self-sufficient mindset of before to that the government will come to the rescue no matter what, in a timely fashion.

I still live with my parents (yeah yeah, it sucks living in the same town your university is, I'll move out the second I graduate and get a job on the side of the country) and it just eats me up inside so much that people laugh at you for suggesting it's a sensible idea to keep at least bottled water stored for 3 days and some non-perishables that don't need preparing... I can't even convince my parents to get a 6 pack of 1,5 liter water bottles. Suggesting that civil unrest or another war in Western Europe could happen in the next 40 years will cause a lot of people to think you're crazy.

This black-out scenario could be caused by a natural disaster or terrorism by causing a grid frequency instability causing transformers, substations and the grid control to burn out. Black-start facilities would be needed and the grid would have the be brought back online area for area. Please keep in mind the European electrical grid is highly interconnected between nations, and this blackout scenario has occured in the past, but with limited impact.

>>33238245
In the nicest way, what makes you think you'll survive?

>>33237059
Speaking of learning disabilities, at no point did I mention making paper towels. I made a reference to making TP with the absorbency of paper towels, which really seems to have triggered you.

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>>33238770

>>33238719
the 5-7 days of power outage? That's not too hard to survive if you start dealing with the situation at an early point in the disaster/crisis.

For instance, I've written a Standard Operating Procedure on what to do when it's time to bug in, for a few scenarios. For instance, after 6 hours of a large scale of power outage, it's time to start the SOP, and fill every available container and bottle with tap water. The water grid in my country will stay up for the first 48 hours of a black-out.

I have 2 Sawyer Mini water filters, a camping gas stove with a few tins of fuel, a bunch of tuna in cans (I buy 20 tins at a time when it's on sale). There is enough pasta and rice in the pantry on a standard basis. After that I want the social structure to break down, and have people experience hunger and looting of stores and stuff, and how quickly they become empty and make people desperate.

Like I said my parents are impossible to convince to get to prepping, and what I have now is insufficient for the disaster I'm hoping for. We might go hungry the last 2 days, but that is what I'm hoping for to change a few mindsets.

If I could do it differently, I would. My current situation is just very unfriendly in regards of being able to prep.

>>33237099
And I bet you don't wipe your ass on them daily, and then clean them daily with a bleach solution, which is what the other anon is advocating.

Even when a fabric item gets so worn that it's useless for anything else, it can still be recycled into better uses than ass wiping. Quilts and rag rugs, for instance. The same process for making rag rugs can also be used for making insulation and padding for other uses.

>>33238858
>I have written SOPs
Got a copy? I'm curious to read

>>33239003
I'll have to translate the gist of it. I have to do some other things first, but keep this thread open.

It's just a bunch of sensible things that you might forget in the stress when it actually goes down.
And it contains the events that should trigger the SOP so it's clear when to escalate, even for a layman.

>>33239069
It does sound pretty interesting, plus if we spot bits that are stupid, critiques can hello improve and streamline it. If this thread closed then maybe I'll start a new one and post Ollie's magical mystery book again.

>>33239118
First off I asked myself:
>What is the most likely incident to happen?
>At what point does this become a threat to me or my family?
>what else could happen (or stop working) because of this threat?
>What is the next most likely thing to happen?
And so on. What causes the incident (black-out, bad weather etc) is less of an issue, the impacts are going to be largely the same, and that's why you need to focus on the impact and effect on other things. Where I live there are no life-threatening weather forms like tornado's or earthquakes.

I looked at black-outs first. I made a distinction between 'regular' outages, incident outages and crisis outages
>regular outages are not even in the SOP, since they are caused by digging, maintenance or stupid people. The Area-Of-Effect (hereafter: AOE) will be very local, like a part of a city of a couple of streets. It's a regular outage when you can go to the other side of town and still have power. These happen too often and have too little of an impact to be part of the SOP. Utility company will fix it within 6-12 hours, 24 hours in the rarest of cases. Tapwater and cell coverage will stay available, keeping you hydrated and informed that it's a small event, and nothing you should worry about. you won't hear anything about it on the evening news.
>'Incident' black-outs are an entire city or county, for a longer than expected duration. So the AOE is significantly bigger than a regular black-out, and the duration is between 6-36 hours. Cell coverage will go down due to congestion or unavailable cell towers. You can easily travel with you vehicle to the edge of AOE and get coverage. Tapwater will stay available because of gensets at the utility company, and the limited AOE will keep emergency services available, and able to keep the gensets running. (Fire dept and army will provide fuel and logistics for this.) Emergency FM broadcasters will keep you informed if you are in the middle of the AOE and can't get out.

>>33239313
>A black-out becomes a crisis when other disruptions like loss of tapwater are happening and causing problems, Emergency services can't handle the calls anymore or the duration is going to be more than 72 hours. It can be either the timeduration, AOE or loss of other utilities that make it escalate from incident to crisis.

>Large AOE loss of tapwater without any primary event that caused it (black-out, severe weather, etc) is so unrealistic in my eyes that I don't have it in the plan. The loss of tapwater due to a primary event, however may cause it to go from regular to incident or from incident to crisis. But that would be part of that primary event escalation.

>Extreme weather (heavy [snow] storms) is only so mild around here, the only way you could die is by walking on the street at the height of the storm and headbutting a tree or large branch. Just stay inside and ride it out. When black-outs occur or tapwater becomes unavailable, it can be escalated to a crisis according to their escalations.

Got some stuff about intentional disruption of internet or loss of utilities due to hacking/cyber warfare. Once again, just ride out and refer to the related utility loss. If it is a state-sponsored hacker (russia) and they do more than just hack to show off their skills (large AOE, multiple utilities targeted), it is time to start the SOP as soon as possible.

>>33239689
Now for the SOP:
>0. If possible, make a shopping run to get some more supplies, if you feel you need them. Make use of that bank or credit card until the electronic financial system goes down. Save cash for last. Gas up your vehicles before lines start to build up at the gas station.
>1. Shut all doors, windows, blinds, shutters on the outside and inside the house (keep warmth and any lights inside, less attention = better)
>2. Fill all containers and bottles with water, either for drinking or sanitation, like flushing the toilet. You don't know how long it's going to last, yet. Better make use of the water grid for as long as it is available.
>3. When using candles, keep a bucket of water nearby, you don't want to burn down your house when the Fire Dept. is unavailable.
>4. Monitor the local appointed emergency broadcast stations, ham radio bands and Red Cross frequencies for useful information. Keep in mind the available batteries, their batterylife, your ability to recharge them and the expectation you have of the duration of the incident. Don't spend all day going through your batteries on the first day if you suspect it might last a few days.
>5. Keep your family members (kids?) near, so they don't go off doing stupid stuff. Keep your trauma kit (CAT TQ, CombatGauze, Israeli bandages) even closer.
>6. When your home gets damaged
>>Get everyone out/to a safe place
>>Shut off gas, water and electricity
>>Only call 911 in life-threatening emergencies you can't get yourself or others out of
>>Call the county or city for sewage, branches or other nuisances.

When to start the SOP
>Incident & Crisis black-outs, after 6 hours (or as soon as it becomes evident it isn't a regular black-out)
>impending Severe weather
>State-sponsored cyber warfare (or Russia flat-out attacking a NATO member)

>>33239852
someone might say what about scenario X? I looked at all the other, less probable events. A lot of these start with loss of power or other covered events.
Of course this is MY SOP. For MY Area of Operations. You need to plan according to your surroundings. Make note of heavy chemical industries, low income area's and natural features of your surroundings. I live in a boring as shit country where nothing really happens in terms of natural disasters, but you might not. The fact that our watergrid will stay up for the first 48 hours is something of our country. Yours may differ.

>>33239868
Honestly it sounds pretty solid, the only thing I might suggest is if instead of a water bucket in case of fire have a bucket of sand. There's no point in wasting precious water if you don't have to, you can pick up a small bag of play sand for a few dollars near me and I imagine it's equally as cheap there.

>>33240185
That's a good idea. Only thing is in my eyes:
It's more useful to have a bucket filled with water than with sand, since I can use a bucket of water for:
-drinking (given that it's still potable and the bucket is sufficiently clean enough that you trust it)
-flushing toilet/washing hands/sanitation general
-cleaning food
-putting out that fire

If I have 5 buckets around the house, I'm filling those 5 buckets with water, since a bucket of water is more versatile than a bucket of sand.

And I (nor should you) do no care about wasting that bucket of water, if it succeeds in putting out the flames. That way it's not wasted. You should always have more than one way to get drinking water. Don't just depend on the buckets. So yeah, I might have to break out the filters quicker, but it's all good. I ain't getting thirsty.

But still, you make a good point. A bag of playsand don't take a whole lot of space, and will probably have a bit more uses than I can quickly think of right now.

>>33239868
Most industrialized nations will have between 24 and 48 hours' worth of potable water as residual in the water grid, due to the use of water towers and other inclines to generate water pressure without the need for powered pumps.

There are very few things that would disrupt this to such an extent you will IMMEDIATELY be without a running faucet, most of which are so obviously catastrophic (earthquake, major-area landslide, etc) you will be eventually if not immediately evacuating anyway.

>>33240733
Exactly. That's why I have spent limited time investigating this scenario, and have prioritized it accordingly.

High priority to get as much of it as possible *in case/ it becomes unavailable (this is because humans can't go for 72 hours w/o it = very high impact), low priority in regard to the chance of it becoming unavailable.

Water towers are extremely uncommon in Europe though

>>33240464
Then that part of me makes me think that a designated fire bucket should be just that, you don't want to be running around the house trying to find one because you used one to flush the toilet and drank from another. Sand is single purpose and will be there when you need it.

>>33240789
Europe is generally hilly enough they get the same effect by building a ground-level reservoir or tank on a hill. Same effect, different method.

For that matter, water towers really are only found in the flyover states in the US because they're so flat and have to service such a comparatively large area for a given population. There's a reason a county might have a single 100,000gal water tower despite having a population over 100,000 people, they have so many hundreds of miles of water main they don't need a huge reservoir because of the residual volume.
>yfw your quarter-million-gallon megatower represents only about 2% of the total municipal water because you have 230,000 miles of 18" pipe

>>33238770
Hey ZED, hows it hanging?

>>33239313
>What is the most likely incident to happen?
>At what point does this become a threat to me or my family?
>what else could happen (or stop working) because of this threat?
>What is the next most likely thing to happen?
Anyone entering adulthood or already there who reads these questions and doesn't become a prepper is retarded or a lazy ass gibsmedat.

>>33240998
I'm not Zed. I'm the anon Zed lied to about TP. I still have nightmares about building a TP bunker, and then the rain clouds start gathering...

>>33241031
That would be 99.999% of the world's population anon.

>>33241089
Well more fool them.

>>33240842
The primary reason for water towers is to provide system pressure, you touched on this in your post. The second reason for water towers is to provide surge volume. It takes lots of hellish big pumps to keep a system pressurized, and to handle the largest likely surge in usage. Those pumps are expensive and maintenance intensive. A water tower provides the same functions at a much lower cost. You can refill the tower with cheaper/smaller pumps, which don't need to worry about keeping up with demand.

>>33241193
A fair number of US water towers are completely pumpless, and they generally represent a small fraction of the total capacity of a water system (and thus really don't provide a substantial insurance against surge usage). The treatment plants and reservoirs are the ones that have the "hellish big pumps" but those aren't actually used to generate pressure.

For example, my town is on the bluffs overlooking the Mississippi River. We have a treatment plant up on the bluffs that's fed via residual pressure and 1-way valves, with several holding ponds and one enormous enclosed reservoir built on the bluffs. Town of about 70,000 people, and the whole system is entirely pumpless because it can use several hundred feet of natural elevation to generate pressure.

And yeah, during "surge" times (such as halftime during the Super Bowl), don't expect dick-all in the way of water pressure. The flip side to this is during off-times you have almost enough water pressure for your shower to peel skin.

Is tactical gear during SHTF a meme?

>>33241671
Depends, I'm planning on having a chest rig, a belt rig helmet and NVGs.

Reasoning behind this is I need an efficient way to carry and quickly access magazines should I need it, helmet added protection so I don't do myself a mischief and NVG for obvious reasons so I can see at night.

I say yes it's completely viable and useful

>>33241711
Forgot to mention I'll probably get plates for my chest rig as well.

>>33241069
You were in the original "all the TP" threads by ZED?

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>>33224000
This book is best book

>>33211753
thats a valid reason to want everyone elses shit getting slapped all at once.
>>33216002
>There will be a Great Depression 2. The great recession was never fixed, just put off until later as we acquire more debt, more regulations, more taxes, more wars, and more civil unrest.
you see it going Wiemar republic, or more Argentina where you gotta have a crew of people to protect your luggage when it comes in on the conveyor belt or else it get stolen in front of you and you get robbed, or Venezuela where they are eating animals in the zoo?

or chinese civil war type roving bandit gangs?
>>33216325
i agree, plus we wont have the coasties to help with SAR.
>>33216525
>poolshock
mah melanin enhanced associate
>>33216553
get a 40 OZ Nalgene with a humangear CAPCAP. it maked it like drinking from a soda bottle instead of a mason jar. get a Ti cup. its a few bucks more, no reactive, non corroding, and you can clean it by boiling water in it.
>>33218984
not dude
lots of poachers use .22LR and shoot the deer in the eye. my great-great-uncle Charlie grew up doing that during the depression. He'd still being doing that if he wasnt in the home from the last stroke he had.
>>33212912
is collodial silver any good for staph and MRSA infections?
>>33226645
modern cars are shielded from RF interference. they have to be, or they would shit the bed just starting up. you cant even use the old analog oscilloscopes on modern cars, and only use digital ones with adapters the fucky thing about that book was he has no idea about how cars work, and just made shit up. cars running points ignition, can be shut down with a high power ham radio and a directional antenna. diesel trucks and cars would laugh all that off, and they would have had black diesel for years after the gasoline ran out, as long as they had or could make some basic feedstock solvents.

>>33241779
No, just the one where he detailed how to make logs by stringing rolls of TP onto PVC pipe, then wrapping the resulting log with shrink wrap and using a bunch of those to build a bunker. It sounded pretty legit until he mentioned screwing sheetrock to the bog roll logs. The thread fell apart shortly thereafter, iirc.

For about a year after that, whenever I found myself in a thread where Zed was posting, I would screech autistically at him about lying about TP.

>>33242106
>you see it going Wiemar republic, or more Argentina where you gotta have a crew of people to protect your luggage when it comes in on the conveyor belt or else it get stolen in front of you and you get robbed, or Venezuela where they are eating animals in the zoo?

Different anon here. Weimar republic. We've already got some of the elements in place. We'll probably get the roving gangs and regional strongmen after the upcoming war. I don't see anybody having the resources and force projection capability to occupy us, so we're going to be left alone after the war regardless of how it turns out.

>>33244577
it autocorrected to Wiemar since i had typed it in lowercase.

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How much could preppers learn from groups such as the Amish?

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>>33246497
>How much could preppers learn from groups such as the Amish?
Well lets think about this logically anon. What could city folk learn from communities who live fairly well with out electricity...hhmmm.
How about every last God damn thing there is to know about living after SHTF. FUCK
>>33246607
>HEH
>Life is good

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Here's a question I don't think is sometimes addressed.

When it comes to a team/community how big is to big?

At what point does it become to big to manage and control. I'm not so much talking supplies I'm talking about maintaining order within the group, how do you deal with rouge elements.

>>33247823
160 people. It's the upper limit on the number of people you can perceive as "human" at once. In groups larger than that you start to conceptualize groups. Instead of thinking as each individual as "him" or "her" you start to think of "them". Makes it easier for rifts to form.

>>33247850
What would happen when groups grow to large?

Could the idea of splitting up and setting up new small orbital communities be an idea? Still working together still holding the same basic principles but allowing them to "govern" themselves. This allows them to know their own community while at the same time being able to relay issues up the chain to the central hub.

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>>33247823
>treefiddy

Seriously though, that is a huge question. It means there is a point you can't help others. So then what do you do when they want so much of what you and your family have that it means you will be starving soon. It all comes down to who lives and who dies.


But back to your question. How many can you keep fed? That is all that matters ...then some kind of rule enforcement and so on...

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>>33247823
>When it comes to a team/community how big is to big?
Sustainability is the only rule that matters. Are you already producing a steady flow of food? The faster the farming starts the faster we have time to get the electricity going then after that is all good.
>At what point does it become to big to manage and control. I'm not so much talking supplies I'm talking about maintaining order within the group, how do you deal with rouge elements.
Maybe the only good thing to come from collapse is the smaller communities get to purge themselves of degenerates and other undesirables. Anyone slowing the return to normality is your enemy.
Can you be more specific concerning who you consider rouge anon?

>>33248043
I personally am not going to be feeding strangers that just show up begging, I would expect them to work and that will help feed themselves.

More people - more land cultivated - larger harvest.

I'm more thinking about just regular law and order. My idea is, as I Mentioned before, is splitting off orbital settlements from the centerline hub. We would help them get set up whether that be food, shelter etc, as these would likely be people I've already been working with.

At that point each orbital settlement would have its own leader and sheriff, to maintain order.

I feel this would work in several ways
>this would mean that the settlements would all be connected and have a common goal as they likely came from the original settlement
>The settlements aren't to large that lawlessness can run rampant
>Should an outer settlement get attacked you have the ability to either flank and assist using the neighboring settlements to the side. Or pull back to an inner ring or central hub to use as a more defendable position.

>>33248086
See I take issue with some parts there, I'm not going to cut off the elderly just because they cannot assist in ways they may previously been able to. They may be a slight hinder but I'm not about to begin euthanasia.

Someone who would undermine the infrastructure of the group, a selfish individual, one looking out for themselves or a small group within the group.

It opens up a can of worms because if you exile them, they may come back which is a risk. But at the same time I don't believe that murdering them is any means to begin building a society and in fact may cause even more rifts.

Well I'm getting surgery on my lower body so I hope not anytime soon.

>>33247897
This isn't a bad idea. Create sub communities like neighborhoods, each with a representative. Each representative deals with a town leader directly so that everyone maintains the humanization of each individual vicariously. You just need the sum of individuals in a community and the number of communities to be less than 159 and you're set.

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>>33248235
Are the just removing the balls? Or going the whole way and giving you a vagina?

>>33248239
That's exactly what I was thinking.

The central hub could also be used as the main medical station, trading post for the different orbital settlements, and the in processing of new people that arrive.

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>>33248143
This is why my family and I will bug in as quietly as possible for as long as possible. As everything shakes out it will be hell on earth for a good while.
>>33248239
>>33248266
A guy names Karl Marx wrote a bunch of stuff about this kind of utopian society. Good stuff that marxism...ayyylmao.

>>33248425
The fact is that bugging in like that only lasts for so long. Eventually communities will we'd to rebuild.

A truly utopian will never be achieved but murdering people will not help the group.

>>33241031
I've asked many people these things
The standard reply is always:
>Lol anon, that happens so rarely, it's a waste of time, energy and your sanity to prepare for such outlandish events
>it happens so rarely that it'll probably never be a threat to me. And if I die, I'll die! I don't care!
>But if the apocalypse happens I'm coming to your place anon, you have all this cool gear!


The fucking hypocricy makes me so mad...
"I don't care what happens to me, I'm too lazy to take care of myself. LOL but in the off chance it does, you'll save, right anon?"

>>33240842
I certainly don't live in the hilly part of europe. Flattest country on earth.

>>33240799
Good points all around

Any interest in keeping this subject alive for another thread? Might want to focus next thread on giving advice to people how to make their own threat analysis/disaster recovery plan.

It's a cyclic process: Plan-Do-Check-Act
Plan the important events and their impacts
Do/acquire the means to protect yourself or take care of yourself & your family
Check if the things you bought/acquired actually help
Act to adjust your plan or measures.
Repeat on at least a yearly basis

>>33248623
Hell why not now, this thread is near capping out anyway.

>>33248635

>>33230444

damn dude SHTF zepplin! thatd be dope

>>33211632

new bread
>>33248635
>>33248635
>>33248635


new bread
>>33248635
>>33248635
>>33248635