Could Russia shoot down an F-22 over Syria?

Only thing Russians could shoot down are their hopes and dreams of being anything other than a nation of shaved apes.

>>31613407
yes, its why they put the fuckin missiles there.

>>31613415
fuck off to /pol/ with your shit-tier posts

>>31613415
>spot the butthurt
>>31613407
in theory the S-300 and 400 capable of that

>>31613407
>Could Russia shoot down an F-22 over Syria?
Yes

>Is it likely?
No, not in any way at all.

A guy in a parachute shot down a jap Zero with a M1911 during WW2, so yeah, anything is possible if you get lucky enough.

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>>31613407
Yes. As long as you can get a radar lock-on you can shoot it down with missiles.

>>31613425
/pol/ tends to actually have a more neutral view on Russia-US relations than /k/, funnily enough. Everythings so ridiculously bipartisan on here.

Yes.

>>31613407
Russian SAM is nothing to be fucked with. They could do it, particularly if we blundered a jet into the middle of an arranged defense network--which is exactly what a foray into Syria would be. Russian AA has stupidly long range because they've specifically been planning for this scenario for decades, and while the Ruskies deserve all the shit we give them about other things, they make really good SAM and Anti-Ship missiles.

Obviously in a larger conflict the US could gradually abrade Russian air defenses, but in this kind of scenario where we haven't even tried to reduce them yet? No, they could blow anything they wanted out of the sky, at any time.

>>31613415
I want amerifags to go back to cancerous /arg/ threads

>>31613407
Sure.
>>31613436
>No, not in any way at all.
Mostly because it's THE hangar queen.

>>31613407
can they shoot down a Raptor? Yes, but why would they?

>>31613508
Hillary starts WW3.

>>31613463
>Mostly because it's THE hangar queen.

Yes, but still, why would they even if they could?

Low-frequency radars operating in the VHF and UHF bands can detect and track low-observable aircraft. Relatively simple signal processing enhancements, combined with a missile with a large warhead and its own terminal guidance system, could potentially allow low-frequency radars and such weapons systems to target and fire on the latest generation U.S. aircraft.

>>31613463
>regularly flies missions
>is a hangar queen

>>31613513
you mean Trump starts WW3? Ignoring Trump and choosing the one liar that actually has some common sense would require Americans to behave in an intelligent manner, and since intelligence is so obviously un-American it's 'muricans' patriotic duty to avoid acting in an intelligent manner

>>31613536
because the stealth tech is as you may know only a low-radar-visibility tech and missiles can travel faster and in greater numbers than jets,
and they would if the US decides to go full retard with the syria circus and starts hitting syrian forces

>>31613407

If you're looking for unbiased answers, you've asked this question in the wrong place.

>>31613548
The candidate is irrelevant, it's a question of third candidate vs established political corruption.
>>>/pol/

>>31613548
Fuck off CTR shill

>>31613539
Remember that these waves have wave lengths measuring in METERS, so resolution is pretty fucking shit.

>>31613581
CTR?

>>31613627
Correct the Record, paid Hillary shills.

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>>31613590
>a few meters will matter when a jet travelling at mach speeds gets torn apart by the detonation of a hypersonic ballistic missile the size of a tree

>>31613650
A meter wavelength radar will have a target resolution measured in hundreds of meters, unless the antenna the size of the Steel Yard radar.

>>31613648
I am not American, getting paid by a foreign entity to affect politics in another country could be twisted into spying for a foreign government & I could be charged as such under our laws regarding treason, so if I were in fact a paid Hillary shill it would be very bad if it were found out, yet here I am, what do you figure that means?

>>31613687
That CTR is the /pol/ buzzword for the season, just like shill was before it and JIDF before that. As soon as the elections end it will fall out of use.
Though sadly all the newfags from Reddit will remain.

>>31613687

That your delusion and lust for money are greater than your sense of self preservation.

Feel free to keep digging.

>>31613650
It does matter when you figure in the distances invovled.

Realistically, it would be cruise missiles strikeing airfields and whatnot, and just out spam the IADN ability to handle it.

The US is pretty good at dismantleing IADNs, which basicially comes down to "dont play the enemys game".

Lets assume that you wanted to degrade the IADN. Why even put an F-22 over an active IADN? Why not, instead, start with a volly of JASSMs and MALDs to get the radars fireing and moving, then move in with growlers mounted with 4 jammers each and AARGMs, and more MALDs. The F-22s, if you HAD to use them, could be there playing air defense in the back.

This way you force the enemy to interrogate targets, causeing them to show themselves, cause them to fire upon targets, degradeing their stock of missiles, before even risking a plane. THEN you start removing assets themselves.

>>31613699

>Hello everyone, I live in a perfect world where everything goes exactly according to plan all the time.

>>31613709
Not an argument

>>31613699
So what if they have long range surveillance radars and interceptors?

>>31613709
Where did you get that from my post at all?

>>31613718
Long range radars only work if your target plays along and stays over the radar horizan at range.

OTH radars are shit for cruise missile and fighter size targets.

>>31613686
maybe thats why the S-_00 systems use a whole bunch of radars?

>>31613735
Lighting up one target from multiple sides and hopeing for a return might work, but it shows not one radar but two or more for an extended period of time.

Sead bait.

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>>31613728
Not just talking about OTH. HARM is greatly outranged by modern radar systems and, correct me if I'm wrong, SEAD is not effective if your planes are hiding behind terrain, unable to target or be targeted.

>>31613441
>/pol/ tends to actually have a more neutral view on Russia-US relations than /k/, funnily enough. Everythings so ridiculously bipartisan on here.
This. You literally can't have a single post involving Russia or China without it devolving into
>muh .50 cent posts meme
and
>le vatniks Xxdd

>>31613539
Stop. Think.

Where did this bs originate from?

>>31613425
>>31613441

>/pol/
>Neutral on russia

If worshiping putin as the savior of the white race and celebrating every decision he makes it neutral sure.

>>31613744
>HARM is greatly outranged by modern radar systems

Unless you are below the horizan.

>SEAD is not effective if your planes are hiding behind terrain, unable to target or be targeted.

Never been the case with the harm missile, and its worse the the AARGM.

The harm is completly fire and forget, you can pop it over a hill and it will search, track, and home in all on its own.

AARGMs have an active radar seeker so if the target trys to stop emitting and run it will still home on it, AND can do search patterns and loiter, with 2 way datalink.

>>31613760
I said more neutral.

>>31613769

even then questionable

>>31613698
well since I have already been branded as a spy & I could use some money I might as well do it, do you know who to contact in order to make the arrangements?

>>31613745
>thinking .50c is a meme

You know for a while the chinese goverment banned chinese from coming here, yet extremely chinese posters still posted.

Before you say they "they were just going though proxies" a few posters already admitted to being paied.

They use /k/ as rhetorical practice because nothing matters here.

>>31613745
Russia has consistently made itself an enemy of the US, hell the entire West for that matter, and has singlehandedly driven relations to their lowest point since Androprov (Putin's former boss).

>inb4 you spew some /pol/ shit at me about everything being the US' fault

So as /k/ is something of a pro-American/West and pro-freedom board, I would hope that most people here would oppose a rogue state that seeks to undermine everything we hold dear.

>>31613709
Don't be a faggot

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>>31613761
>AARGMs have an active radar seeker so if the target trys to stop emitting and run it will still home on it
But only the location it was in. Move the radar itself by a hundred metres and it's a miss. If the close-range / AA radars themselves are completely turned off, the HARM will do nothing. Can the US afford to fire AARGMs everywhere just because? (of course it can)
Naturally static AA sites will be countered effectively, but if the anti-air is used in surprise, especially as a force multiplier to support interceptors and cause casualties on its own, then I can't see how US SEAD would perform without notable losses, both to the Wild Weasels and fighter bombers.

>>31613697
JIDF pls

>>31613785
>rogue state
Anon pls. It's two sides of the same coin. Russia and US both play at being great powers and the small countries and irrelevant third worlders suffer whilst they're at it. Just because Russia isn't on the US' side doesn't mean it's a rogue state.

>>31613808
Russia is not a world power and where the fuck have you been for the past 2+ years?

It is a rogue state.

>>31613793
>But only the location it was in. Move the radar itself by a hundred metres and it's a miss.

No anon, it has an ACTIVE seeker along with the passive, like a AMRAAM, or a brimstone.

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>>31613785
>Literally create ISIS to fuck with Russia's allies
>Try to take the moral highground

Yeah, just stop dude. Russia has problems but they're not in the wrong in Syria. Some corrupt cunts in the States and Israel want to build a pipeline and Assad is in the way, so they're murdering tens of thousands of people over money and creating problems that everyone is going to have to deal with in the future.

>b-b-b-b-b-but russia
Please. Russia didn't do shit to relations, Hillary fucking Clinton and Obama did by unilaterally murdering gorillions of Russia's allies. Even the Ukraine--whose idea was it to install a bunch of fucking fascists in power there? What if Russia came and installed a Socialist dictator in Mexico, what would you do? ffs.

>>31613744
>greatly outranked

Wat.

Even a radar that's on a 100m Mast (more than three times the height of anything anyone has ever put in service) has a radar horizon of roughly 60km for something 20m off the ground.

An old obsolete ARM had a range of 80km.

>>31613778
I'm not saying that's not the case but every single post that has anything that isn't a negative perspective on China is immediately flooded with those kinds of posts.
>>31613785
You're just delusional

>>31613822
I specifically said to not spew /pol/ shit.

>>31613793
That's not what that means. The active radar seeker allows it to prosecute targets that turn their radar off, that's the whole point. It'a the same sort of seeker Brimstone and Hellfire L use to track tank targets even in dogshit weather conditions.

>>31613822
>want to build a pipeline and Assad is in the way
In a warzone?

>whose idea was it to install a bunch of fucking fascists
Those are the guys that won like 2 seats in Ukraine's parliament right?

>>31613831
Care to elaborate?

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>>31613815
>It is a rogue state.
Why? Because of Ukraine? Syria? The exact same shit the USA has been doing, but because they are our enemies they are condemned for it.

>>31613820
So it can follow a non-radiating truck and specifically target and follow it as it drives away? How? How does it differentiate between the radar truck and others?

Who cares? Build a wall around Syria and let Russia have it.

>>31613831
I disagree, there is some very good discussion on chinese equipment.

The issue is the majority of it is /pol/ shit. For example, the flips situation. Its not even remotely /k/ related at all.

>>31613808
This.
>>31613815
>Russia is not a world power and where the fuck have you been for the past 2+ years?
It actually is a world power, just not a super power. Fucking underaged faggots like you need to be gassed.
>It is a rogue state.
America is a rogue state for supplying arms to Cartels in Mexico and central America then. America is a rogue state for arming, training, and funding "moderate" terrorists in Syria and Libya. America is a rogue state for stationing missile defense systems in Eastern Europe. America is a rogue state for putting bases right on Russia's border in countries that America allowed to join NATO, which by the way were agreed to remain a neutral buffer between Russia and the west. Fuck off

>>31613846
>I disagree, there is some very good discussion on Chinese equipment.
Yeah and they get shit up extremely quickly.
>The issue is the majority of it is /pol/ shit. For example, the flips situation. Its not even remotely /k/ related at all.
>le /pol/ is the only place to discuss habbenings and military actions that haven't quite gone hot yet
I hate you fags

>>31613842
>So it can follow a non-radiating truck and specifically target and follow it as it drives away?

Yes.

>How?

The same way a brimstone, a hellfire-L, and the harpoon (among many others) does it.

>How does it differentiate between the radar truck and others?

Onboard target ident.

If your getting into "how does MWR work", its about time to say lurkmore.

Pretty basic stuff, been around for a good long while.

>>31613842
Whataboutism.

Russia has invaded plenty of countries before Ukraine I don't know what you are trying to say.

And the key difference is that Russia (under Putes) behaves aggressively towards the US/the West (to the point of isolating itself), something that just about everyone tried to avoid doing to Russia post-Cold War. So it can be said that we tried not to see Russia as an "enemy", but obviously they didn't reciprocate.

>>31613842
When the US invades Mexico and starts terror-bombing civilians down in South America you're free to condemn them for it.

Hell, if you want to start campaigning for a lot of people to be thrown into prison over Abu Ghraib, waterboarding, Contras, etc etc etc then I will wish you the best of luck. Fuck those guys.

This however does not mean that Russia's behaviour in Syria, Ukraine and back home isn't utterly abhorrent. Fuck Putin too.

>>31613859
/pol/ is for politics.

I hate you newfags who were not here for when /new/ got deleted, twice.

There is a reason for everything, dumbass.

>>31613855
>/pol/speak
>all Russia Today narratives so far out of sync with reality

And no, Russia is not a world power I hate to inform you yet again.

>>31613888
I've been here since 2009.

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>>31613837
>In a warzone?
After the war is over. The coup was going relatively well (though a little slowly, Ukraine went better) until Russia stepped in to support the SAA. Remember how Obama wanted boots on the ground in Syria? How the Britons refused utterly to take part in it?

>>31613883
>Russia has invaded plenty of countries before Ukraine I don't know what you are trying to say.
Which the USA has done as well. It's almost like both are trampling over other smaller countries whenever possible.
>And the key difference is that Russia (under Putes) behaves aggressively towards the US/the West (to the point of isolating itself)
Because they're in the opposition to the US. They have their own interests and a strong belief in Russia stronk. Kowtowing to the USA and allowing them to increase their sphere of influence is not in their favour. Why would they ever do it?
>So it can be said that we tried not to see Russia as an "enemy", but obviously they didn't reciprocate.
Why would they reciprocate. Tell me. What benefits do they receive from it?

>>31613884
If their behaviour in Syria and Ukraine is abhorrent, US behaviour in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan is abhorrent as well.
You need to take a step back, remove emotions from the game and just look at things as neutrally as possible. Both sides are furthering their own interests and neither is being rightful or just in any way or form.

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>>31613900
Where do you get your news? US mainstream media? Glorified propaganda on the same level as Russia Today, just feeding people the official narrative. Entertainment and bullshit in a monstrous mix of 1984 and Brave New World.

>>31613900
>/pol/speak
>everything I disagree with is /pol/ speak
>all Russia Today narratives so far out of sync with reality
>Y-You RT vatnik
Not once did I say that Russia is in the right or wrong, just simply that the same criteria that make Russia a "rogue state" by your definition also make America a "rogue state".
>And no, Russia is not a world power I hate to inform you yet again.
How retarded can one person be. It's a world power/great power, it's just not a super power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_power

>>31613917
> Glorified propaganda on the same level as Russia Today

Hah, not even.

Its not perfect, the majority are not even good, but they PALE in comparison to RT.

>>31613904
>Remember how Obama wanted boots on the ground in Syria?
I remember him wanting to bomb Assad and rejecting ground troops.

>>31613927
No, no they really don't. The only one that is slightly less shit is Fox and even then it's utter shit.

>>31613904
Stop with the fucking whataboutism Jesus fuck.

>US sphere of influence

wat?

>why would they reciprocate?

Gee I wonder, no sanctions, free to build their pipelines, store their monies in the West, etc. etc

And stop with this "the US" shit, Russia has made itself hostile to the entire West.

>>31613935
Yes, they really do.

The fact you think "fox" is all that really accounts for western news is sad, and shows your ignorance on the matter.

>>31613920
No it's that your points were all factually wrong, and I'll say again, literally sounded like a Russia Today article.

>>31613942
US was never going to touch Assad.

Anyone who has actually bothered to read up on US policy towards Syria knows this narrative is fundamentally false.

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>>31613942
The west put russia in a situation where it would either have to bend over and take the dick while losing its global influence and allies in the mediterranean and middle east.

Russia said fuck that.

Everything else about civilian casualties and yapping about moderate rebels is simply the propaganda stunts of a military allience that has in the past 15 years killed over a million civilians around the world.

>>31613950
The fact you think "Russia Today" is all that really accounts for Russian news is sad, and shows your ignorance on the matter

>>31613901
No you haven't if you think pol in /k/ is a grand idea

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>>31613931
Before that though. When the first accusations of chemical weapons usage were coming out, the talk was all about a ground invasion in Syria. People were hopeful of getting combat action, until the UN stated it was most likely the rebels who used the chemical weaponry.

I'm probably misremembering some things here though.

>>31613942
>Stop with the fucking whataboutism Jesus fuck.
No. I look at things neutrally from an outsiders perspective and both sides are doing the same things. Invading and destabilizing small third world countries to further their own interests. If this makes Russia a rogue state, then the US is the same.
>And stop with this "the US" shit,
The US is by far the leader of the Western World. It is in control of NATO, has the mightiest military on this planet and has troops stationed all around Europe. What else should I call it?
>Russia has made itself hostile to the entire West.
>made
It has been that since the communist revolution, anon.
>free to build their pipelines
They already have pipelines, Turkey and Iran are both relatively friendly to Russia and the competition is on to compete with Russian pipelines into Europe. They're trying to protect that pipeline, if they reciprocated, they would lose that advantage
>store their monies in the West, etc. etc
As if they couldn't find places to store their money. If there's one thing that rises above petty national strife, it's banking.
Reciprocating means Russia would have to abandon their dreams of Russia stronk. They want to be an independent great power with the maximum amount of influence in the world. Falling under the US' wings would steal this from them.

>>31613955
>there are real life shills on my /k/
OUT OUT OUT

>>31613984
Russia does not have global influence, anymore.

And see
>>31613980

>>31613986
Beyond blogs? Yeah, that's pretty much it.

>>31613986
All Russian media is controlled by the Kremlin

>>31613992
Again
>everything I don't like is /pol/

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>>31613980
>US was never going to touch Assad.
Then why support, train and arm rebels fighting against Assad? Including Islamists and people connected both to Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
Why are you lying, anon?

http://newobserveronline.com/clinton-destroy-syria-israel/
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328#efmADMAFf

>>31613993
>Before that though. When the first accusations of chemical weapons usage were coming out, the talk was all about a ground invasion in Syria
That's what I was talking about. There was talk of bombing, never a ground invasion. Maybe a Senator or two wanted an invasion, but Obama explicitly ruled out invading them.

>>31614009
Again
>the political happinings of the Phillipines is /k/.

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>>31613998
>russia doesn't have global unfluence anymore

simply by russia's vast size and the amount of nations it borders, it qualifies as infuential to the entire eurasian continent.

It directly influences the middle east, it directly infuences china and india and has power to influence south america to a degree.

Unfuck yourself.

>>31614018
>Wikileaks

You don't know much about Syria or the reality of US actions there, do you anon?

>>31614009
It's an easy way of ignoring whatever arguments people put forth. You shouldn't be bothered by it. It's either shitposting or a deluded moron, utterly incapable of introspection and anything resembling unbiased thought.

>>31614021
I can't help but remember Obama advocating for it as well early on.
Kerry for one wanted US troops to take control of the nation once Assad was deposed.
I guess you're right though. Obama was always advocating for training and arming the locals, but not a direct military intervention.
I do remember though that there was a continuous, growth towards a military intervention and some Joint Chiefs did aim towards it.
Links are spam so no proofs for you.

>>31613993
The US doesn't pose a security risk to other nations or the nations around it. Contrast this with Russia.

And I'm not going to address your other points because they're kinda retarded ;)

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>>31614026
>Wikileaks
Is this the height of your argumentation? Might want to sniff Hoppes a bit less.

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>>31614005
yea no. you brainwashed baboon

is majority state owned, yes. is all of it state owned, no. read a book nigger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Russia

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>>31614057
Suit yourself. I'm not here to educate Burgers on reality.

>>31614025
It is a regional power, not a global power.

And no, Russia does not have influence over India and China, and as for the 'Stans, it's influence is decaying.

Russia does not have influence in the Middle East.

>>31614059
You don't know much about Russia, do you?

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>>31614057
>the US doesnt pose a security risk to nations around it

Probably because it borders 2 countries directly, one of which is it's hat, and the other one is its source of cheap labor.

>>31614085
The US does not pose an existential security threat to other nations. Contrast this with Russia. That is why Russia is a rogue state.

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>>31614070
>russia does not have an influence in the middle east

>it has something like an open allience with Iran, and is waging a war in syria right now
>does not influence

Are you mentally limited?

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>>31614081
yea I only live here, let me guess. you know more about my country than I do huh?

fucking autistic neckbeardery is strong here today...

Sure is CTR in here

>>31614104
Russia does not have an alliance with Iran.

Russia does not have influence in the Middle East as Syria is not the entire Middle East, Russia's presence is small and is isolated in Syria (the fact that Russia has to rely on a strait going through a NATO members gives a pretty amusing look at their global power projection capabilities).

>>31614113
You mean overweight, ignorant fudds.

>>31614106
Proofs?

Or no proofs?

>>31614119
>rely on a strait going through a NATO members
Since when Iran and Iraq are NATO members?

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>>31614096
>does not pose an existential security threat to other nations

>the US and its allies have directly backed and interveened in 3 wars in north africa and the middle east in the past 5 years alone, 1 of which has resulted in a coup, and the other one has turned into a horrible civil war which has been raging for 5 years with no clear end in sight.

They also physically invaded 2 countries and have all but destroyed them in the past 20 years while simultaneously installing puppet governments.

nope
no existential threat here boys
move on
we just exporting some democracy and liberty

>>31614106
So if you live there, can you tell me why you are actively working to put Trump into power?

>>31614136
We also do lots of other things, like making the sun come down in the evening and the rainbow stuff, you know. Fucking russians.

>>31614132
Where is their base?

How do they resupply the base/expand it and resupply Assad (the majority of the time)?

Answer: that strait that goes through Turkey. I'd love to see how Russia could pull off their op in Syria without having that base on the sea, and being able to resupply it by guess what, the sea.

>>31614096
Tell that to Lybia, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

>>31614136
Because Trump would serve Russia's interests, why else?

>>31614155
>Where is their base?
In Latakia.
>How do they resupply the base/expand it and resupply Assad
Air route through Iran and Iraq, most of the airbse stuff goes through there. Naval route through Bosphorus, and yes, closing it is a straightforward casus belli.
>. I'd love to see how Russia could pull off their op in Syria without having that base on the sea
We have a naval border with Iran, retard.

>>31614170
By that you mean, not starting WWIII with you guys?

>>31614162
Tell that to the 10+ former Soviet States and Europe

>>31614200
Tell that to Nazi Germany. Then tell it to France, then to Germany in turn and then to whoever the fuck they were angry at.

>>31614200
Oh boy, here with go with
>Russia is the Soviet Union
Did you forget to take your meds again Gramps?

>>31614177
>closing it is a straightforward casus belli.

Believe me anon, if a Western blockade was imposed on it against Russian shipping and Iraqi airspace was closed, there isn't a lot Russia could have done, at all.

>but it be WW3 comrade, da

Last time I checked the US/European nuclear deterrent still exists whilst an attack on one NATO member is an attack on all, so no, they would have been sort of fucked

>>31614211
Where the fuck have you been the past 20+ years?????

Do you know anything about Russian policy towards the former soviet space??????????

>>31614119
It is pretty easy to see that the Russians have an alliance with Iran in some shape, due to their actions together in Syria, and they have pretty good relations with Iraq.

>>31614241
They do not have an alliance with Iran.

>>31613407
The lack of information about both systems means the best we can do is speculate using figures that might not even be correct.

>>31614238
Yeah, they want to maintain influence in countries neighboring them, welp guess they're a rogue state.

>>31614245
so the military, political, and economic cooperation is nothing then? it was the Iranians who got the Russians to start airstrikes in Syria in the first place, and Russian airstrikes supported all the major Iranian led offensives in Aleppo.

>>31614297
Sovereign, independent states.

And when one stands up for their sovereignty, what happens, you get PEOPLE'S REPUBLICED

>>31614305
Never said there wasn't cooperation, but there is no alliance

>>31614313
Imagine if Russia decided to station nukes in Cuba, that would be worrying, right? The point isn't that Russia is "the good guys", just that both America and Russia are protecting their interests and pretending like Russia is some rogue state is literally bullshit propaganda pushed by western media.

>>31614225
>Believe me anon
No i dont.
>Western blockade was imposed on it against Russian shipping
They cant.
>Iraqi airspace was closed
Also cant.

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>>31613415

>>31613415

Fatniks, ladies and gents.

>>31613548

Are you immune to reality Mr. CTR shill?

Hillary's State Department is what got the USA into Syria, and Libya. Her people want regime change no matter the costs.

Trump is at least willing to talk to the other side.

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>>31613883
The US invaded Panama "Just Cause" they could. Pic Related.

We fund drug cartels and guerilla groups around the world.

Look, there are no "good guys" in Geopolitics. Only powers on the rise and fall. Countries you can influence and Countries you can't. It is all about control. "Moral arguments" are only used to get the populace accept your course of actions.

>>31613760

That is actually a neutral position.

On the topic of Syria and Crimea, the Russians were morally and legally righteous.

Did you know that all US OPS in Syria are still illegal by the same international laws that Fatniks claim were violated in Ukraine?

>>31613931
I remember boots on the ground. I even wrote to my senator and rep about it.

>>31614352
No, they *could*, and didn't.

They could have, that was the point of my post

>>31613785

If you're not a shill, you're a victim of the neo-McCarthyite paranoia sweeping through the press and media, which are both intimately in bed with your Pentagon and State Dept.

The only free press remaining in America are the blogosphere and internet.

>>31614442
No, the fact that they did not proves they cant, not that they could but did not.

>>31614407
This is what Russian propaganda seeks to do, create nihilism in the West

>you're no different to us, comrade, da

>>31614423
>Crimea righteous
Except deal made by Ukraine and Russia and guarnteed by US and UK that Russia gets its nukes back and in return promises to drop any claims on crimea

>>31614452
>look mom, I know big words!
That's not what nihilism you stupid fuck

>>31614452
US had the same deal with Belorussia and violated it a couple of years before the Crimea. Those memorandums were worthless, no one ratified them.

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>>31613815
>Russia is not a world power

Lel, panting and kicking dusting aren't going to change reality.

So, why haven't you regime change'd Assad yet? Hmmm?

If Russia is not a world power, clearly, there should be no obstacle in achieving your Zio-Con objectives?

So what's the hold-up?


In reality, the blatant violations against the Syrian people, the people of Libya before that and Iraq and so forth, it appears that America is the rogue state, commit heinous acts against humanity.

>>31614423
Crimea is occupied by Russia, there's nothing righteous about it

Russia went into Syria supposedly at the request of it's government (even though the decision was made before this lol), but the legality of Russia is Syria isn't an issue

>>31613883
>Whataboutism

So you acknowledge the moral and leadership failings of America and have even come up with a catch word to try and deflect?


Jeez, so much for the beacon of the free world.

>>31614476
So much anti-American pro-Russian sentiment nowadays, fuck me, maybe Russian active measures is actually succeeding

>wtf I love Russia now

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>>31613927

It's much worse than RT, because at least RT is open about being a state news channel.

American propaganda channels conceal their ties with the Pentagon and State Department, while parroting the government narrative. This makes it far more dangerous and insidious.

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>>31614486
crimea is rightful russian land inhabited by ethnic russians for hundreds of years, only signed to the Ukrainian SSR back during the early cold war to make construction in the area less of a bureocratic nightmare.

>>31614512
Another thing Russian active measures seeks to do, create tinfoilism

>everything is propaganda! don't believe anything!

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>>31614503
>being this bipartisan
>being this spooked

>>31614526
I lost it at that gif

Guess I might as well start shilling for Russia now

>>31613552
If the jet stayed at 30k feet you'd never see it and could never hit it.

>>31614533
>Russia is just doing the same thing as the US. No different, just good guys and bad guys propaganda

Except there is reality

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>>31614057
>The US doesn't pose a security risk to other nations or the nations around it.

Are you kidding?

Being a non-aligned and sovereign state, is the biggest health hazard to a nation. It makes you a target for Tomahawks, regime change and axis of evil talk.

Why do you think Iran is so desperate for a nuclear weapon? They know it's their only guarantee against American imperialism.

It worked for North Korea.

>>31614527
No problem, believe whatever you want. Its ok to wage aggressive wars and then bullshit about others doing kind of the same on 1/100 scale, it is ok to pretend to be white knights of democracy and have terrorist friends. Indeed you do not need tinfoil to say its fine.

>>31614552
Being that spooked can't be good for you. Take a chill pill, man, you sound ridiculous.

>>31613546

That's the joke, honey.

>>31614170

So avoiding WWIII is serving Putin's interests?

You CTR fags really need to work on your spiel. It just doesn't stack up.

>>31614560
Care to elaborate on what the fuck "spoked" means?

>>31613407
could a bear shit in the woods? does a cowboy have a gun?

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>>31614569

>>31614170
Your mother is more accurately personified as a now infamous courtesan who has become so drunk in her past glory that she performs with great ease fellatio that leaves neither party satiated. That is to say no one is pleasured by the act, while the gentleman seeking relief experiences buyer's remorse, while your mother fails to acquire enough fiscal supplement to support her current life style.

>>31614566
Tbh choice between Trump and Clinton is a choice between vomit and shit, bydlo populist vs. blatant liar and psychopath. In US citizen's shoes instead of making the choice i'd ask myself why the most democratic country in the world is forced to make such a decision.
t. russian

>>31614576
So what, it means nothing really matters, we just act?

>>31614455

That deal was long ago violated by the continued expansion of the America's foreign legions (NATO) to the borders of Russia since the year 2000.

>>31614586
Literally not happening in this thread.

>>31614566
Another Russian propaganda narrative, you guys are an embarrassment to this country honestly

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>>31614486
>Crimea is occupied by Russia

That's like saying Idaho is occupied by America...

Are you playing with a full deck of cards anon?

>>31613699
But the point is that the US isn't doing or going to do these things in Syria, because they're not about to start a war with Russia. So you're left with flying around within Russia's IADS or not at all. Sure, if they wanted to dismantle and defeat the system they could. But they don't.

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>>31614503

You don't have to be pro or anti- anything. All you need is a good grasp of the facts and a few brain cells to see what is happening.

And seeing America support radical Islamic Jihadists, and inciting civil wars in one of the last decent Middle Eastern countries has me pretty much sickened.

And when that cunt Samantha Powers goes to the UN and puts on some theater about poor terrorists in Aleppo being barrel bombed, fuses in my head just fucking begin to explode.

You don't have to be pro-Russian to see what the US is doing in Syria is downright evil.

>>31614600
It was deal between russia and ukraine

Dont even bother to respond i simply cannot belive that someone who calls NATO Us foregin legions is either full mental health or unbiased

>>31613407
Russia could fuck my asshole wide open if they wanted to and US air defense wouldn't be able to stop them.

>>31613842
>How does it differentiate between the radar truck and others?
The other trucks don't have enormous radar dishes on the top of them.

>>31614628
No, it's to do with the fact that the US was never going to touch Assad, and never will for reasons nothing to do with Russia, you realise the war has been going on well before Russia went in?

>>31614677
And a missile can tell the difference how? What about decoys?

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>>31614687
Then why support, train and arm rebels fighting against Assad? Including Islamists and people connected both to Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
Why are you lying, anon?

http://newobserveronline.com/clinton-destroy-syria-israel/
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328#efmADMAFf

>>31613793
>Move the radar itself by a hundred metres

And during that time it's inactive. Thus fulfilling the basic requirement of SEAD, suppression.

>>31614656

But NATO is just an extended branch of the US military.

What NATO is, is a framework of integration of a new countries military and command capabilities into the structures and doctrines of the US armed forces.

Legions are a good way of describing it. NATO armies are fully extensions of the US armed forces.

It seems you have a pretty dim picture of how this world operates?

Would you like a link to Reddit?

>>31614646
But we haven't really done much in Syria anyway, your obviously one of those tinfoil people.

And Samantha power makes me cringe too, but the "rebels" aren't what the discussion has been about.

>>31614704
Yeah, but not dismantling as the other anon stated.

>>31614443
okay pal, sure.

>>31614702
Tinfoilism and all factually wrong.

Pro-tip: get educated.

>>31614512
If this image is true, then I don't fucking understand anything that goes on over there.

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>>31614729
Pro-tip: that's not an argument. Are you an actual paid shill, or just an utterly ridiculous person?

>>31614716
And?

The thread line I replied to was about SEAD.

>>31613822
>>Literally create ISIS to fuck with Russia's allies

ooooookay buddy, you've swallowed the koolaid pretty hard

>>31614443
None of that, I just recognise Russia for what it is: a rogue state hell bent on undermining the West

>>31614714

>But we haven't really done much in Syria anyway

There's between 2,500-5,000 US active service men and contractors in Syria.

If America is not involved in anything, what are they even doing there?

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>>31614538
yeah and you're gonna fly it like valentino rossi through buildings, mountains and shit

>>31614692
It has a millimeter-wave radar. This gives it extremely high resolution, which allows it to create a "picture" of what it's seeing. It compares this to what the target should look like and prosecutes that target.

And decoys would be a good idea, I don't know if Russia uses them or not.

>>31614735
>anyone who defeats me in an argument is a shill

Pathetic

>>31614733
US is supporting Islamistic insurgents against a relatively secular dictatorship under whose rule people were able to live a modern, far freer life than under the rule of ISIS, Al-Nusra and whatever other bands of rebels there are.

>>31614743
And that chain of replies started with talk of dismantling Russian IADS in Syria and the discussion moved on from there, landing to SEAD being very well possible, but dismantling taking more effort.

>>31614750
Dunno you tell me? Trying to oust Assad? Strange that he's still there desu what with all that regime change going on

>>31614714
>But we haven't really done much in Syria anyway
You went to war in Iraq, which later produced most of insurgency in Iraq and created a lot of instability in the region. Then your lapdogs did the same in Libya with your help. You trained the rebels that later defected to Nusra, you armed rebels that later defected into Nusra, China and Russia vetoed 4 UNSC resolution against Syria, including one that involves article 41 in 2011. You did a lot in Syria.

>>31614733
I would read facts about Syria first, not propaganda

>>31614758
>And decoys would be a good idea, I don't know if Russia uses them or not.
Everyone uses decoys when necessary. Serbs did a great deal of them from extremely simple junk.

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>>31614759

>>31613855
>America is a rogue state for putting bases right on Russia's border in countries that America allowed to join NATO

>countries that want to be protected by NATO from the heavily armed and extremely aggressive quasi-dictatorship next door shouldn't be protected by NATO

>>31613441

No. It's just that the vodka infused russkies balance out the burger infused murricans.

>>31613917
>citing George Orwell
>citing 1984 and Brave New World

wow there sonny jim you sure showed us with your 15-year old reading capacity

>>31614797
Don't forget the Warsaw Pact imposed against us for 50+ years. No idea how these people shill for Russia, that or they are Russians with the usual din do nuthin victim complex

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>>31614799
/pol/ has flags though and not even the American posters there show the kind of gullible bipartisanship shown on /k/.
Though of course they're full of it when it comes to other subjects, but concerning this, the burgers on /k/ are really pathetic.

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>>31614817
Do you think we're on Facebook or something? Holy shit, man.

>>31614820
>bipartisan

And that term applies to Russia how exactly?

>>31614687
You're missing the point. Yes, the US under Obama was never going to touch Assad (I remember the 'red line' lololol) that's true. What I'm saying is that now, even a president who would be willing to do Saddam 2 Electric Boogaloo with Assad won't be willing to attack the Russian military.

Remember, I'm talking about whether the Russians could shoot down an F-22 in Syria, and responding to people who are saying "nuh uh, we could just dismantle their IADS." While dismantling their air defenses and thus eliminating their ability to shoot down a stealth jet is possible in terms of equipment and doctrine, it is not possible politically, thus making the point irrelevant.

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>>31613548

>>31614840
Yes ofc, but at the same time, a President hell bent on getting Assad wouldn't be able to if Russia was there or not, no public support after Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, hell there would be riots

Retards in this thread seem to forget that Iraq + Afghanistan had public support riding on the back of anger over 9/11

Ofc they'll just claim the media "lied" to cover up the fact they were cheering for it back in the early 2000s

>>31614760
>US is supporting Islamistic insurgents against a relatively secular dictatorship
This I know. I also understand that we have completely mis-handled relations with Syria for ages. If I am not mistaken, the tried to be cool with us but we were too stupid to let them.

>>31614888
Hmmmmm, Assad did support extremist insurgents in Iraq you know, all the US' fault

And Hafez had the good sense not to anger Uncle Sam when Uncle Sam is waving dick (see Gulf War and relations in the 90s

Get educated or go back to /pol/

>>31614923
>Assad supported them so now it's okay for the US to do it in turn
You sound like a fucking Russian.

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I can't wait for all the anti-American comments from foreigners and their broken English. Very entertaining.

>>31614941
At no point did I say that in my post

>>31614950
RUSSIA STRONK

WE WUZ GLOBAL POWA N SHIET

>>31614923
>Hmmmmm, Assad did support extremist insurgents in Iraq you know, all the US' fault
Except that he did not. He fucking joined the coalition to fuck up Iraq in 1991. You are confusing islamist insurgents in Iraq that guys like Assad, Saddam and Gaddafi always opposed with hezbollah, which is an entirely different thing.

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>>31614950
(Yuo)

>>31614748

Keep slinging talking points shill, too bad it doesn't stick.

>>31614692
Are you seriously asking how target differentiation works?

>>31614772
>Strange that he's still there desu what with all that regime change going on

That's where they fucked up.

They thought it was gonna go the way of Libya.

Arm a few sand nigger irregulars with imported weapons, give them a no fly zone and presto, regime change magic.

What they didn't realize that Syrians are much more united and supportive of Bashar than they ever imagined.

And then the Russians set up military bases. This isn't going well at all for the Jew-lovers and Neo-Cons.

>>31614609
That would imply that other countries recognize that Crimea was legally annexed and is territory of Russia. So far only Khazakstan and Belarus accept it.

Try harder next time.

>>31615048
Not an argument.

>>31614452
Actually, it is the fact I work in the US defense industry making parts that are keeping Saudi jets in the air in Yemen. Once you read about your days work being used by a country you don't like taking out a village somewhere, you either have to find a new line of work or give up on morality. My family needs to eat, so morality has to go.

>>31615152
So by this definition there's nobody moral left in the former USSR due to all the people that AKs have killed.

>>31614986
He's talking about 2003 and letting insurgents freely cross the border

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>>31613548

>>31615167
Former USSR people did not have options US people had and still have. Like, democracy. Or being able to freely choose their job anywhere in the country. Or even a right to know stuff they make goes to filthy terrorists, not to glorious Motherland protectors.

>>31615173
Considering giving arms, training and money to actual terrorists is not big of a deal today i am not even sure that qualifies as support.

>>31615182
Nice excuse. So they're so immoral that they wouldn't even consider standing up against it.

Really shows the true humanity of slavs.

>>31615195
They did not even know it happened, retard, there was no source of information other than glorious state-owned propaganda for them.

>>31614526
Ingria (the land on which St Petersburg lies) is rigtful Finnish land inhabited by Baltic Finns for hundreds of years until the ethnic cleansing carried out by Stalin in '30s

>>31615220
>dey made all these weapons and saw images on state sanctioned tv of all these people with aks and soviet tanks and never put two and two together

Are you retarded?

>>31615245
Appeal to ridicule, everyone gtfo to Africa, Europe is rightful cromagnon clay.

>>31615167
As I have gotten older, i don't really see morality left anywhere in the world anymore. I have lost a lot of morality my self.

>>31615269
First of all no, they did not show those people on the news. Second is yes, they were told that those people are good people and fight for freedom. They did not have the option to go to the internet and see alternative opinion on that. Considering there are shittons of americans and europeans that arent able to put two and two together while having this option this is a weak argument.

>>31615300
>First of all no, they did not show those people on the news

>they literally never showed any of the countries that were given these weapons
>They didn't routinely talk about the great Workers Revolutions in Cuba, Africa, their own Pact allies or those in South America

>>>/out/

>>31613425
>>31613428
>>31613459
>>31614368
>>31614380

RIDF pls.

>>31615351
Which of those you will consider islamic terrorists? Ok, which of those you will consider terrorists? And it is funny how you ignored most of my post.

>>31614750
90% of them is with the YPG, or are kurds ISIS now?.

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>>31615362
Goalpost moving yet again.

Whuch stage are we at now?

>>31615369
YPG is designated as a terrorist organization in Turkey, funny.

>>31615152
Does your dad also work for nintendo?

>>31615379
>Goalpost moving yet again.
Oh did i? I dont think i did.
Actually you did that, somehow implying that cubans, africans, pact allies and south americans are somehow the same as saudi arabia right now.

Remember the gulf war?

When we thought we were going to get balls deep in a war against a nation wielding relatively modern soviet tech?

The gulf war was such a long and drawn out conflict lmao

russian equipment is ass and they've never been known for their advanced military tradition/doctrine either

>>31615399
Yes, none of them ever murdered oppositoin or oppressed people. They were good boys who dindu nuffin :^)

>>31615428
I am sure that was not mentioned on state tv.

>>31615423
Naa Russian equipment overall is good, problem is that you have another military whose equipment is directly aimed at overcoming and defeating that equipment.

>>31615434
Yes, they only saw it happening all around them. How could they possibly assume that it would be happening elsewhere? Russia a good boy

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I stopped giving a fuck what /k/ says when NATO bombed those Syrians and the americucks here literally tried to spin it as Ruskies mistakenly bombing them. When the fucking US DOD announced it.

What creates this level of delusion?

>>31615423
>nation wielding relatively modern soviet tech
That was your imagination, though.

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No bully.

F-22s just want to fly around all day unhindered and be comfy together.

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>>31615423
>relatively modern soviet tech?
>iraq

Do burgers really still believe this a quarter of a century later?

holy fuck.

>>31615441
>Yes, they only saw it happening all around them. How could they possibly assume that it would be happening elsewhere? Russia a good boy
Oh sure they could, by connecting to ethereal world information network though practicing yoga and injecting krokodil.

>>31615477
>see something happening on my street
>can't make the same connection that the same people that call themselves communists might be doing the same

Wow you think slavs are more retarded than I do

>>31615616
First of all you do overestimate things that were happening on the street after Stalin. Second is that right fucking now, while having all sorts of information people fail to make this connection. People who did this connection in USSR were intelligentsia and, believe it or not, they did not build weapons. When everyone in USSR managed to do thus connection things like Sakharov happened, and then USSR fell.

>>31613751
>Low-frequency radars operating in the VHF and UHF bands can detect and track low-observable aircraft.
>Where did this bs originate from?
From physics textbook for high school, dummkopf.

>>31615634
I see we're at Stage 3, bargaining.

>>31615697
Nice arguments you have there.

>>31613548
>Trump is gonna start world war 3 guys!
>GUYS TRUMP AND PUTIN ARE BFF DON'T LET THE KGB WIN
>Guys Trump is an isolationist! We can't let the world be without America!

Jesus CTR pick a narrative and stick with it.

>>31615616
Soviet citizens thought WP and Cuba were absolutely fine, since they simply lived much better lives. Going there was a dream, things from there were extremely valued. They did not have reasons to believe they are oppressed in the same way they were, simply because reality told them they are not.

>>31615713
Back to Denial i see

>>31615772
Back to not having arguments on the subject, i see.

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>>31613822
>>Literally create ISIS to fuck with Russia's allies

Noe come on anon, you can't actually believe that, or at the very least you're talking in hyperbole. You can say 'Consequences of the American occupation of Iraq in part lead to the rise of the Islamic state' and no one will disagree, but saying 'literally created' is intellectually dishonest and you know it. It's on the exact same level of 'American LITERALLY won world war 2 alone!'

>Even the Ukraine--whose idea was it to install a bunch of fucking fascists in power there?

Oh, you're retarded, sorry.

>>31615853
>You can say 'Consequences of the American occupation of Iraq in part lead to the rise of the Islamic state' and no one will disagree
Considering every fucking time US makes deals with mudslimes it ends up fighting the thing it created i have to admit that US government over last 50 years is either dumb or evil. Or both.

>>31615853
>Noe come on anon, you can't actually believe that
They do

>From Russian leadership's point of view, the Iraq War now looks like the beginning of the accelerated destruction of regional and global stability, undermining the last principles of sustainable world order. Everything that's happened since — including flirting with Islamists during the Arab Spring, U.S. policies in Libya and its current policies in Syria — serve as evidence of strategic insanity that has taken over the last remaining superpower.
Russia’s persistence on the Syrian issue is the product of this perception. The issue is not sympathy for Syria's dictator, nor commercial interests, nor naval bases in Tartus. Moscow is certain that if continued crushing of secular authoritarian regimes is allowed because America and the West support “democracy,” it will lead to such destabilization that will overwhelm all, including Russia. It's therefore necessary for Russia to resist, especially as the West and the United States themselves experience increasing doubts.

>It's instructive to view ourselves through a Russian mirror. The term "paranoid Russian" is a pleonasm. "The fact is that all Russian politicians are clever. The stupid ones are all dead. By contrast, America in its complacency promotes dullards. A deadly miscommunication arises from this asymmetry. The Russians cannot believe that the Americans are as stupid as they look, and conclude that Washington wants to destroy them,"

>>31615928
It should be noted that clever is not the same as intelligent.

>>31614407
They didn't invade Panama "Just Cause" they could, they invaded it because of Noriega and the fact that he had outright stated that Panama and the US were at war

The operation was named "Just Cause" because it was literally a justified cause of action

>>31613904
>Afghanistan
if you had left that out it wouldn't be so obvious you're some subtle drunk russian shill. Lay of the boos and you might be able to make a coherent argument without sounding like a dumb cunt.

>You need to take a step back, remove emotions from the game and just look at things as neutrally as possible
you would like your opponents to relax so you can spew nonsense unopposed. Go shit post about jew or whatever your actually about.

>>31614840
If the question you're asking is is it possible to down an F-22 with what the Russians have in Syria, the answer is of course, so could Syria, so could the rebels, so could a farmer with an old nagant. Because if an F-22 decides to fly low and slow over enemy air defenses and slowly circle until it gets hit enough to crash, then yes its possible, but that also is a stupid questions.

A much better question is can the Russians down F-22's when they are used according to US doctrine and engaged by Russian doctrine. Here SAMs are not the way to go, the way to down an F-22 would be to exploit US ROE and use IR AtA missiles to knock one out of the sky. This is because US ROE currently requires visual contact, hence IR missile range.

SAMs will not work, because they are in exactly 2 known locations which the US doctrine insists planes are not allowed to fly into unless there is a planned strike with a SEAD package. Also remember until the 40N6 begins production, there is literally no difference between the capabilities of the missiles for a S-300 and a S-400 system.

TL:DR Russia will probably get close and down the F-22 through other means instead of using SAMs. First, because it exploits US ROE, second because it gives them plausible deniability "It wasn't us, it was the Syrians!!!"

I don't think I've ever seen so much retarded, biased, ignorant shit posting in one thread.

America, you're better than this.

>>31616250
>until the 40N6 begins production
http://vz.ru/society/2015/3/11/733858.html

>>31616250
>there is literally no difference between the capabilities of the missiles for a S-300 and a S-400 system
Missiles are just tools. The main difference between these two are radars and control systems.

Americans and Russians are two sides of the same coin.

Both sides with spin anything to make their country look good.

>>31616250
The us engaged iraqi planes bvr in the gulf war.

>>31616250
>US ROE currently requires visual contact, hence IR missile range
What's stopping them from changing the ROE?

Well yeah. Russia could turn on the x-band radars and hypothetically pump enough electricity into the things that they could lock stealth aircraft at various ranges. That doesn't mean said aircraft or anything with a radar pointed in that general direction wouldn't be able to see and engage said electromagnetic lighthousefrom farther away and faster, however.

>>31615446
What's the hidden message anon? I don't know most of the words, but that Arabic DEFINITELY doesen't say what's in the caption

>>31613415
Hesrightyouknow.jpg

>>31613415
REKT

>>31617030
>>31617070
yes but till they shots start being fired, I don't see US ROE changing. To allow for bvr shots, would require declaring a no fly zone and shooting at syrian and russian aircraft. Hence, US will wait till they fire first.

>>31616709
A currently the longest ranged missile available for S-300 and S-400 systems are the same, so even with a different radar and different control system, the missile in terminal mode will have exactly the same characteristics, hence if S-300 missiles have problems, S-400's missiles will have the same problems.

>>31616584
your source states the same thing that the Russian MoD says the 40N6 will go into production when the S-500 goes into production, and has yet to be accepted into service. Hence, they have no 40N6 missiles, much the same as the US does not have a railgun.

>>31618655
>Russian MoD says the 40N6 will go into production when the S-500 goes into production
It does not. It states that 40N6 has been accepted into service. Which means they finished the trials, started serial production and started supplying them to the army.