>limited ammo capacity >need two hands to operate >less

>>29407387
>45acp vs 12 gauge slugs
So are you retarded or just stupid?

Also, inb4
>pistol calibers don't have the stopping power I need

>>29407423
Retarded. Glad you pointed it out, thanks.

>>29407387

Wait, why pistol caliber? Those are fucking retarded.

.45 kills your soul
12 ga slug kills your soul and then some.

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Just use a blunderbuss.

Pic related.

>>29407387
I prefer Handguns for HD due to it being easer to keep from someone if I get jumped coming through my hallway and its easer to maneuver around corners that said my KSG12 serves as my HD long gun with my Sig P220 in my night stand I hear a bump in the night I grab my sig if I know someone in the house and if I need to Ill retreat to my room with my dog and hole up till the cops arrive

>>29407387
not to mention that shotgun rounds arent dangerous outside of 25ft and are worthless outside of home defense in the home

>>29407387
>pistol caliber carbine
these are all literally shit.

Why not just cut the bullshit and refine your trolling to why is an AR best at homedefense, when literally a G17/19 with 33rd mag is THE gun for home defense?

>Mobility in CQC is king
>those lightswitches aint gonna turn themselves on

>>29407527
0/10

>>29407387
>limited ammo capacity
pls tell me where you find your unlimited capacity clipazines senpai

This thread is pure shit

>>29407546
tell me how your 5+1 scattergun will fare against someone with 10+ then we talk

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Guns are for the weak. I prefer a katana for home defense.

>>29407564
>being illiterate on top of being a retard
Noice.

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Man-portable weapons are for pussies. I prefer to use an m65 nuclear cannon for home defence.

>>29407387
They're pretty much the most cost-effective option for home defense. For a little over $200 you can have a decent weapon to defend your home with.

At the very least it outclasses a hi-point (in most situations).

>>29407564
>6 x 9 = 54

I'll take 54 over 10 rounds

>>29407387
>limited ammo capacity

Tell me OP, what is this mystical gun with unlimited ammo that you have?

>>29407423
...but, they don't

>>29407536
>not being able to hold your carbine one handed to turn on a light

300 blackout suppressed sbr is the best home defense weapon.

But I'd rather have a pistol than a shotgun because of its higher capacity and pistols are easier to maneuver.

It will stop someone with 8 rounds. With 1 well placed shot, you could kill them instantly. End this meme that power isn't necessary in self-defense.

>>29407720
/thread

>>29407564
Alright op, you made a troll thread but in assuming you're actually looking for answers as well.

One hit incapacitation is really good for 00 buck shot and slugs. Buck shot out of a minimum length shotgun will actually spread pretty seriously at the length of a hallway almost like throwing a trash can lid circle of hate instead of less than a half inch diameter. I would say over penetration is a non-factor but it's statistically irrelevant anyhow. Reliability, believe it or not. There's no more reliable hundred and so dollar gun than a shotgun. Some lower end pistols still malfunction depending on ammo and such.

So let's recap.
Pros:
>cheap
>reliable
>spread
>yyyuuge energy transfer
>buttstock.

Cons
>follow up shots
>reloading
>overall size.

>>29407527
>shotgun rounds arent dangerous
>aren't dangerous
>(you)

>>29407708
lemme edumacate you on ballistics.

Before all the kikes with their snakeoil $1/rd bullshit came along, bullets were made for one thing: Poke holes into people.

Everyone likes to say "Oh velocity" "Fragmentations" "HallowPointz with razor leafs" - Fuckem.

Bullets make holes. Holes have to pass thru vital shit or they dont do shit. There is only one reliable method of death when it comes to human beans. It aint fragmentation, it aint spending fuckin $40 for a magfull of bullets that boast that they shred everything, its severing something important. A FMJ is most suited for this task, and it just so happens to also be the most cheapest and oldest designed bullet in existance (besides uncoated hardcast)

So with that said, poke big holes, and poke lots of them. Here you get into 9 vs 45. I say .40, because if you aint got them dead with 23 rounds of .40, you gonna need a fuckin 155mm sabot.

overpenetration is not your friend in HD, thus a large number of smaller projectiles offers excellent power headed downrange that is less dangerous to people in other rooms or in the next house over.

>>29407751
Some other cons are wrecking some some shit and waking up the neighborhood. Still, I would recommend a shotgun for home defense.

>>29407664
What?

>>29407387
>Can someone tell me why a pump action shotgun would make a better home defense weapon than a pistol caliber carbine in ANY scenario?

>Massive variety of ammunition available
>Any idiot can figure out how to use one quickly
>The guns themselves are cheap and/or disposable in the event of police confiscation

Gee, i fucking wonder why, OP. You stupid fuck.

>>29407527
>aren't dangerous outside of 25ft...
le fuck nigger? YouTube effective rage of a shotgun considering your to fucking stupid to read hell I'm surprised breathing is not out side of your IQ range

AKM, AK-74, .223 AR15, .300blk AR15 are objectively the best choices for HD
>good capacity
>easy to aim
>good power especially with hollow points
>won't overpenetrate
>fast followup shots
>can be suppressed (AR15 more easily)
>short compared to most shotguns so easier to maneuver

>>29407387
>>limited ammo capacity

Please find me an instance where one home was sacked by more than four home invaders.

If you can't do the job with six shells, it's not a home invasion and you should surrender anyway.

>>29407786
>overpenetration is not your friend in HD,
fuck off kike, no one here wants your $1.50 a shot snakeoil.

Got kids in the house? Tell them to get the fuck on the ground, or get them behind you. Bam, problem solved.

You know what is a bigger problem than the 0.0001% chance you miss and the stars aligned and that bullet goes thru 2 layers of drywall, a 2x4 and has sufficient energy left to implant it into a signif other's head?

Underpenetration caused by a JHP expanding too rapidly due to hitting cartilidge or ribcage. And guess what, there is a 50% chance a bullet is gonna hit a rib when you aim CoM.

>>29407780
Yes, poking holes is an excellent way to hurt someone and make them slowly bleed to death. But a shotgun can make bigger holes and the bigger the hole, the more likely to hit a vital organ. The more holes, the more likely to hit a vital organ. I would rather do it as quickly as possible, with more chance to hit a vital organ, than have that 15th shot the one that counts.

>>29407813
>>The guns themselves are cheap and/or disposable in the event of police confiscation
>>29407830
>AKM, AK-74, .223 AR15, .300blk AR15 are objectively the best choices for HD

Performance wise, sure, but they aren't as easy to write off as scatterguns.

>>29407536
>going room to room turning on the lights
>not just flashing a tac light where it's needed

>using a pistol for HD

>>29407834
heh, better to just shoot your double barrel in the air and scare em off

or they'll hear you pump a round in and run away. chachick

>>29407751

>"trash can lid circle of hate"

You must have some long ass hallways.

>>29407804
6 shells of 00 buck with 9 .33 caliber pellets = 54 .33 caliber pellets going down range in a relatively short period of time.

>>29407841
>But a shotgun can make bigger holes
go look up what size 00buck is. Unless you are talking about a slug, youre opinion is shit.

If you cant hit someone that is literally 15ft away from you with a pistol, what makes you think you are gonna hit them with a shotgun? What happens when they duck and you slip up and miss? Guess how long it takes someone to get across a room? guarantee its faster than you can rack that shitter.

>>29407804
You dont own guns, gotcha

>>29407846
>>not just flashing a tac light where it's needed
>A 600lumen light on a white wall 3ft from your eyes when you just woke up in the dead of night
ok bud, go fantasize with your shithead friends back on your own board
>>>/asp/
>>>/lgbt/
>>>/r9k/

>>29407879
I am talking about slugs. Also, aiming with a shotgun is as easy as aiming with a pistol.

>>29407793
I think I would want to wake up my neighbors if I'm shooting someone. It would be nice to know law enforcement is on their way if I don't exactly win a gunfight.

>Could you imagine Juarez after 6 years in the pin off of meth bulked up to 250 lbs of car jacking, home breaking and entering, meth craving, I ain't going back to prison, out on his first binge grabbing your gun and actually disarming you before beating you unconscious then putting one in your chest before taking off. No one noticed your fancy subsonic suppressed shot while you bleed out without help ever coming?

>>29407906
>I am talking about slugs.
way to prove youre a fuckin idiot.

Why not carry a musket?

>>29407838
This

Overpenetration is great for quick manstopping with a large round. The exit wound causes massive bleeding

>>29407902
>using a bright white light
>not using a red light to keep your night vision

>going room to room turning on the lights
>telling the intruder exactly where you are
>ruining your night vision, unable to see into the still-dark rooms

stay mad, pleb

>>29407843
>55 grain bullets

>great for HD

Do what now?

>>29407923

Because racking a shotgun takes a quarter of a second.

>>29407387
AR-15 in 5.56 = Best HD gun.

>>29407923
Opinion immediately invalidated. Muskets are like shotguns but objectively worse.

>>29407947
Nah, .357 magnum is the best HD gun

>>29407951
and shotguns are like rifles but objectively worse

(for HD)

>>29407934
>>29407947

>Using 5.56
Worst fucking cartridge on the planet for HD, and for everything else in general

>>29407926
>>not using a red light to keep your night vision
lol entertain me here shithead.

first off, its green light that lets you keep your nightvision, hence why all NODs are fuckin GREEN.

Second, show me where Surefire or Streamlight makes a "RUSSIAN RED" taclight (NOT meaning an IR filter)

>>telling the intruder exactly where you are
because you move around as quiet as your cat? gtfo underage.

>>29407907
Yeah, but if we're talking about stopping someone, not winning isn't part of the circumstance.

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Canada here, in a world where we didn't have mag restrictions up here, would pic related be better than a 12ga pump?

>Not min length 12 gauge.
>Not 3" magnum 000 buck

>Current year
>Not attempting to blow limbs off

>>29407958
you sure seem pretty assblasted

it's ok to be wrong

Why just shoot one bullet when you can pump that fucker with a bunch of balls?

>>29407951
>Opinion immediately invalidated. Muskets are like shotguns but objectively worse.
you dont seem to understand the point.

You are limiting yourself to basically one shot in one actual bullet, negating any benefits of actually using a SHOTgun, aka 'use a musket'

you are also fucking yourself in court, because once you hit him with a slug, he is gonna go down as long as you didnt graze him, and if you shoot again, you get bammed for murdur 1st deg, so Aunt Jamima gets yo house, yo car, and all yo monies, which is what tyrone was trying to do in the first place.

>>29407946
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+fast+does+a+nigger+run+mph

The best HD gun is a G17/19/22 with a <300lumen taclight and 33/22rd mags

anyone who suggests otherwise is fantasizing about being 'Punisher' and is going to get fucked.

>>29407958
i guess that's why SWAT, the military, and everyone else go around turning on their light switches while room clearing instead of just using a flashlight

>>29408015
>you sure seem pretty assblasted
dont try to play off your stupidity like its nothing. you are a bane on humanity as a whole, please castrate yourself so we dont have to deal with your progeny as well.

you got called out, and instead of nutting up, you butted up and got fucked by the truth.

>>29407987
Absolutely.

>>29407966
You were implying suppressors right?

>>29408031
>2016
>still using handguns for HD
I guess that's why the military prefers them for CQC

>>29407953
Thats my backup. SP-101 with 125 Gr. Hollow points. Handguns as a primary is autism though

>>29408044
Wut??

>>29408044
They are actively searching for someone. You still need to figure out if it was your stupid doge jumping on the counter trying to get your congealed meatball sub and knocked over a glass, or someone else getting a glass of water or actually there to buttrape you.

They also have enough taclights to light a room by themselves, you only have one.

>>29408093
/sarcasm
>>29408100
You should have the mindset that you are also actively searching for someone, imagining that it's an innocent cause could get you killed.

>>29407387
>Can someone tell me why a pump action shotgun would make a better home defense weapon than
Here we go, someone finally realizes they're bad for home defense.
>a pistol caliber carbine
Jesus fucking christ. Pistol caliber carbines are just so go damned stupid.
>>29407780
>Holes have to pass thru vital shit or they dont do shit.
Until you get into high velocity shit, yes.
556 and 545 are top tier for home defense.

>>29408031
>once you hit him with a slug, he is gonna go down as long as you didnt graze him
Exactly why you should use slugs.

>negating any benefits of actually using a SHOTgun
Shotguns with slugs are like a mix between a shotgun and a rifle, and are better to use in some scenarios.

Guys, pistol rifle and shotgun all bring strengths to the table in HD. They all have their advocates. Use what you are most comfortable with. I use a rifle because I have shot way way way more rifle than pistol or shotgun. I've easily shot 30,000 rounds of 5.56 in my life.

>>29407536
>not using a weaponlight.

>>29408184
yeah, better for hunting game at longer range.

you're combining the low capacity of a shotgun with the single round of the rifle. it's the worst of both worlds. and if you miss, your followup shots are gonna be slooow compared to a rifle

>>29407955
No, it's the other way around. Shotguns are better for CQC, rifles are better for long range.

I defend home with AK.
7.62 kill boar bear and people.
7.62 also kill bad man behind man.
Mag hold 30 rounds.

>>29408132
you gonna strap a belt with 4 extra taclights on it so you can have as much light as they do?

Also, if the attacker is armed, its much easier to shoot at the bigass bright light blinding you than it is to find your target in a lighted room. You level the playing field when the light is turned on.

ehh, fuck wasting my time here arguing with retards. Perhaps that one fuckin stupid 6'3" trip will argue with you instead.

His plan is wake up, strap on his AR15, stick his glock in his PJ pocket, and go room clearing. Sounds right up your alley.

>>29408167
>556 and 545 are top tier for home defense.
they are also top tier for flying thru wood when loaded with steelcore (M855 and 7n6)

What part of mobility is king dont you people understand? If you got a 11.5" upper then by all means, go use that. But understand that a 18.5" or 16" just leaves a bigass stick to grab onto when hes hiding around the corner.

>>29407527
What if you put more effort into trolling?

>>29408228
>not having a 10" 9mm AR with a bump fire stock and 32 rounds of HP for home defense
It's like y'all want the urban market to steal your TV

>>29408208
Dont argue with stupid people. He couldnt read it between the lines before, and he still dont get it after I spelled it out for him.

>>29408224
this is an acceptable answer, however it is a bit too effective to the point it is hazardous to everyone in house and even possibly the neighbours.

>>29408192
>>not using a weaponlight.
never said not to use one fgt.

>>29408228
nope, i'll just do what i'm supposed to, use my light to clear the room.

also
>leaves a bigass stick to grab onto when hes hiding around the corner
pretty much the first rule of CQC is to avoid sticking your rifle around corners, for exactly that reason. you lower it a bit when rounding the corner

>>29408262
>bump fire stock
>10" 9mm AR
>using a NFA item for HD
>using a NFA item with a fuckin bumpfire stock
do you even own guns?

>>29408298
Do you not?

>>29408283
dont matter which way you position it, it is gonna enter the room prior to your eyes seeing whats behind the wall.

also,
>entering a room
>rifle not at full ready
bang, youre dead.

>>29408298
I don't think there's ever been a case in which the NFA status of a firearm used in HD has had a bad legal result for the owner

>>29408311
Maybe I shoulda rephrased that in retard:
>has enough money for a 9mm AR and a slidefire stock and a taxstamp
>cant afford a RDIAS and suppressor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iox-l0WI1N0

If you're going to shoot someone, might as well shoot them with a cars worth of energy.

>>29408319
that's not what i meant
here, on page 9 they explain it a little better
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/MILITARY/united_states_army_fm_90-10x1%20-%2012_may_1993%20-%20part09.pdf

>>29408337
A bump fire stock is $150.
Transferable "machine guns" are a couple orders of magnitude more.

>>29408359
and a taxstamp just for the permit to put that bumpfire stock on a 10" 9mm ar pistol is $200, along with a quality 9mm ar being around $800-1200

>>29408357
are you a 4 man team? Can you be in more than one place at one time? Are you raiding a compound that has 6ft wide hallways and 48" doors? The rifle barrel is gonna go around that corner quicker than you do, and if he is around the corner, which he would be if you cut the pie correctly since those are the only spots you cant see, he is gonna get a grip on that barrel.

fuck outta here

>>29408405
>you are not a 4 man team raiding a compound with 6' doorways and 48" doors, therefore all of the principles in this manual are not applicable

>>29408359
more like $85 shipped.

https://www.slickguns.com/product/bumpfire-stocks-bulk-discount-use-code-pro2a-get-10-your-entire-order?view=list

>>29408405
>implying $10k isn't that much more
I wish I were rich like you anon

>>29408424
>therefore all of the principles in this manual are not applicable
pretty much, because it also calls for a 9banger into the room prior to storming it.

>>29407830
Pretty sure a M1 Carbine is the literal masterace HD weapon

>>29408429
RDIAS, fuckface
Registered Drop In Auto Sear
Legally a machine gun, and costs no less than $8k

>>29407987
I actually shot the flat top version when I visited family near Calgary. Smaller than I expected, very light and controllable. Throw 30 rounds of HP in there, and you'd have a great HD gun. Compared to a shotgun? That's a matter of opinion. I'd use it, but I use an AR anyway.

>>29408440
use your brain and figure out how to avoid using a flash bang

it's not like this is the only reference source in the world, either

>>29407387
Literally any retard or woman can fire it at least once

They're a third or less the cost of a PCC or intermediate-caliber semiauto rifle

Ammo is available literally everywhere and is less prone to issues with quality or availability (#6 squirrel shot will kill someone just as dead as a 1oz slug at 15 feet, #9 skeet loads will still *probably* incapacitate if not kill someone)

>>29408457
that wasnt me fuckface. Seems like youre soo asspained from being anally ravaged that you FF even your own supporters trying to substantiate your own claim, such as >>29408429 anon.

fuck outta heer bitchnigger.

>>29407387
12 gauge 00 Magnum buckshot fires 15 .33 caliber lead balls moving at 1225 FPS delivers about 1900 foot pounds, or roughly 4-5 124 grain 9mm +P JHP.

If you don't want to use buckshot, you could use a very large variety of different types of shot, slugs, birdshot, etc. This kind of variety gives a shotgun far more versatility than a pistol carbine could ever achieve. Not trying to say that pistol carbines are a bad choice, but if you have to compare them to shotguns for home defense, you're going to have a bad time.

Oh and how many good quality pistol carbines can you buy for under 300 dollars?

Most effective per hit? Especially compared to any pistol chambering.

Once 12 gauge shot is worth about 4 point something .45 autos, according to my math.

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Somebody call CSA and demand a slightly larger Skorpion that eats 7.62x25. THAT would be great for HD.
>Controllable
>Great ballistics and penetration (And Privi makes JHP now)
>20+1 of fuck you in a tiny package
If they made it a bit bigger, too, maybe the folding stock could be long enough to not suck grimey dick.

>>29407879
Semi auto shotguns.
Why do you all have to shitpost? You could easily train with a pump to be sufficient enough for clay, why not a person in a HD situation?
A hand gun if trained more then a shotgun would certainly be better but if you train equally with a shot gun you'll be just as efficent also again semi auto shotguns are avalible along with saigas 12.

>>29407527
i watched my friend explode a 2 liter full of water at 80 yards with a cut-shell

>shorten the shotgun a bit to make it less unweildy
>easier to point shoot than a pistol
>9 "bullets" per shot of 00 buck
>27 "bullets" per shot of #4 Buck
>less expensive than a pistol
>easy controls for experienced and new shooters

>>29407423
>stopping power
Go away

>>29407564
>5+1
What is the KSG or any shotgun with a mag extension.

>>29412122
>What is the KSG or any shotgun with a mag extension.

A gimmick

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>>29412191
A shotgun with a magazine extension is a gimmick, holy shit I've heard it all now.

>>29412210
You're welcome

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>not using an ar15
>owning a shitgun or pistol
>any year

setting yourself up for FAILURE

>>29412229
Why is it a gimmick smartass?

>>29412242
You've proved my point just now.

>>29407387
>not using DD for home defense

>>29407957
Here's your >(you)

>>29407681
its a code from fallout 4. something like; up, down, up, left, right, right, triangle 3 times, then square.

a shot from a 10 ga magnum will dismember a limb....a 9mm wont.

>>29407564
My mossberg came stock with 7+1 nice try tho senpai :^)

>>29407780
What the fuck are you on about? an AR loaded with PDX1 with a light and 16" barrel is objectively the best HD weapon (suppressor is preferred because EEEEEEEEEEEEE)

>light recoil (.223)
>30 rounds
>light so you don't shoot your kids
>sling so tyrone shoelaces can't turn your rifle on you
>14 inches penetration
>devastating fragmentation to shred stuff and speed up bleeding
>.223 will tumble and fragment if you miss. It will still go through a bunch of walls, but not as much as a pistol round or 00buck/slugs

>>29407387
Shotguns absolutely shit on any handgun caliber in terms of lethality and stopping power while also avoiding over-penetration.

>>29407423
>Inb4 the actual reason

That's not how it works faggot.

"Why shouldn't I shoot myself in the face? Inb4 I'd die."

>>29407987
>canada
>defending your home

Enjoy prison, hoser

>>29408283
>not slicing the pie

>>29407387
>pistol caliber carbine

They make frangible 5.56 that's designed not to over-penetrate. The bullets are lightweight, tumble, and break up.

>>29408228
>they are also top tier for flying thru wood when loaded with steelcore (M855 and 7n6)

Don't use it

wow!

>But understand that a 18.5" or 16" just leaves a bigass stick to grab onto when hes hiding around the corner.

Use a sling and be ready to kick anything that fucks with you. Also death grip the stock in your armpit when you are turning a tight corner.

>>29408489
>>29408489
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHQrZXyMn9Y
>10 feet from 24 inch barrel
>only 6 inches

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>>29407387
Because a slug from a 12gauge at ~20 feet is absolutely fucking devastating and I can give a home intruder 5 more before I need to worry

>>29414345

This.

>Leaving intruders alive to testify against you

Do you even /k/?

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>>29414345
this guy gets it

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>>29414411
Is that the Elzetta light mount? I'm gonna pick one up p soon here

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Question: Why are pump guns still a thing to the point that it's being debated for home defense?

Would you make a thread shitting on a lever or bolt rifle for HD? It doesn't cross anyone's mind. You just buy a semi-auto rifle.

>>29414482

I don't know what you are asking.

>>29414479
Do it!

>>29414482
Because reasons

>>29414482
pricing

>>29414482
Because people here will debate literally anything that will get replies.

>>29414556
this

If your home is being invaded by a grizzly bear then you'd better hope you grabbed your shot gun.

>not sure If 00 buck could kill a bear invader

>>29414583

That's why you keep grenades in your home.

>>29407879
With 00 buck, it has the ability to create multiple wound channels with one round. Therein lies its utility. Multiple wound channels are much trickier to fix.

>>29412261
u r dum.

>>29407387
>needs two hands to operate
>implying

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

>>29407536

>risking death by going around house doing CQC style maneuvers like a retard
>not just staying in your room with gun pointed at door while 911 is on phone, and letting cops risk their bacon to flush out the nigger

>>29414500
he's saying why are you retarded enough to imply someone would buy a pump shotgun over a semi auto shotgun for home defense

>>29407387
Because you can just pick it up and shoot no aiming is required especially in tight areas like inside a house

>>29407536
>Mobility in CQC is king
>those lightswitches aint gonna turn themselves on

I'm trying to imagine the SAS using glocks and turning on lightswitches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g

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>>29407387

>limited ammo capacity
30 round drum mags are available for a saiga-12
>needs two hands to operate
only if you have a saiga-12 in each hand
>less controllable than a small caliber rifle
not really
>big and unwieldy
i guess it depends on how poor you are, pic related. though even a non NFA version is just as long as a legal "pistol caliber carbine" like retard OP suggests


why are you trolling with a flawed premise? it's like asking why do people choose black powder revolvers over glock 19s in ANY scenario? they dont faggot

>>29414947
>less controllable than a small caliber rifle
>not really
Yes though, 12ga is much harder to control than an intermediate.
>big and unwieldy
>i guess it depends on how poor you are, pic related. though even a non NFA version is just as long as a legal "pistol caliber carbine" like retard OP suggests
Not really. Minimum non-NFA barrel length is going to be 18" whereas for rifles it is 16". Notwithstanding that the kalashnikov action itself is stupid long comparatively.

Not even that guy.

I heard an old fudd tell a guy that the blunt force trauma from a slug can kill through body armor, even if it doesn't penetrate.

Is this true /k/?

>>29415031
considering a human hand punching the chest at just the exact moment can throw the heartbeat off and stop it, id say anything is possible if you are unlucky enough

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>>29415031
I'd imagine the impact from a slug into body armor is more than enough to explode ribs and fuck shit up pretty bad.

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>>29407387
>Can someone tell me why a pump action shotgun would make a better home defense weapon than a pistol caliber carbine in ANY scenario?

Living in a shit state where you are limited to 10 rounds regardless of the firearm.

8+1 12ga > 10+1 anything else

>>29415031
The blunt force trauma, vs soft armor, will absolutely fucking destroy your thorax.

https://youtu.be/dUBaGsXBBU4?t=2m4s
https://youtu.be/QXfxA17B8Sk?t=4m19s

>>29407387

Shotguns are outdated and irrelevant for all purposes besides blowing the hinges / latches out of doors, bird or small game hunting, and sport shooting.

End of discussion, all the idiots in this thread endorsing shotguns are an ideal or preferable firearm are fudds or just plain ignorant.

>>29415351

compelling argument.

>>29414556
>Because people here will debate literally anything that will get replies.
I'm highly skeptical about this, but in the absence of substantial evidence all I can do is call you a faggot. You are a faggot.

>>29407966
>not ever preparing for plan B, C and D
Looks like you plan to die

>>29415351
mall ninja pls

>>29407387
you can beat someone to death with it if the first round doesn't kill them.

>>29407387
>survival rate for handgun and rifle wounds is 60-70%
>death rate for shotgun wounds is 60-70%

Should be all you need to know.

>>29407387
>Each pellet in #4 buck hits with the kinetic energy of a .44 magnum round

Yeah totally useless.

>>29415386
:^)

>>29415799
>survival rate for handgun and rifle wounds is 60-70%

Isn't there a huge disparity? I remember some pathologist's presentation, he said that about 1 out of 6 or 7 pistol gunshot wounds are fatal. It's typical to see people run away as they are being shot, and on surveillance footage it looks like they haven't been shot at all. I remember when that guy shot that reporter and filmed it first person. If you didn't know she died, it looked like she survived it.

He said he rarely saw rifle wounds but when he did, the patient was dead as fuck.

>>29415816
>with the kinetic energy of a .44 magnum round
Flat out no.

>>29407387
>>limited ammo capacity
You won't need more than 5 rounds of 12
>>need two hands to operate
You should be using two hand on any gun
>>less controllable than a small caliber rifle
Only if you're a noodle-armed homo or a chick. Go to the gym
>>big and unwieldy
Becomes a club if you run out of ammo

But in answer to your query, a 12 gauge is better because one round is devastating to the human body, and you can select your penetration level to safeguard your neighbors.

>>29415816

>More than 25,000ft/lb of energy

Haha, you're out of your fucking mind. A round of #4 buck probably delivers like 2500ft/lb of energy at best.

>>29416015
it was something like 6/7 people shot with handguns survive if they make it to a hospital

if they were shot by a shotgun they were dead as fuck and never go to the hospital or it was birdshot

if they were shot by a rifle they are dead or make it to the operating table then die