Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1811

Is there an ordering on Kanji?

>>17076738
Number of strokes, beyond that no

>>17076738
>>17076743
Well there is a grading order as well.

>>17076743
>>17076754
I mean a list of all kanji with an official/canonical ordering.

Was panicking without a thread

>>17075897
>>17075910
足りなさすぎる is technically incorrect, from a prescriptive standpoint.
さ only gets inserted before すぎる or そうだ when they're being attached to an independent word with a one-mora root (語幹), like the adjectives 良い or 無い. They become よさすぎる, よさそうだ and なさすぎる, なさそうだ.
The ない used to express the negative form of i-adjectives and na-adjectives also falls into this category. It is identified as an adjective rather than an auxiliary verb when attached to the 連用形 of an inflected word:
https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/162263/meaning/m0u/%E7%84%A1%E3%81%84/
>な・い【無い】 の意味
>［形］［文］な・し［ク］
>9 形容詞型・形容動詞型活用の語の連用形に付いて、打消しの意を表す。
The 連用形 of the base adjective and the adjective 無い are both standalone words in this construction, as seen in the way they can be separated with a bound particle, as in 面白くはない, 面白くもない, or 面白くしかない. Therefore, 面白くない＋すぎる or そうだ would be 面白くなさすぎる or 面白くなさそうだ. It is the same for the auxiliary verb ～たい, as in やりたくはない, やりたくなさすぎる, as well as for anything that conjugates through the copula だ, as in 彼ではない, 彼じゃなさそうだ.

But in the case of negative verbs, as in 未然形+ない, a さ would not be inserted, because the 未然形 cannot stand by itself and the two words are dependent on each other for meaning. Although you can say 足りはしない, which is the 連用形＋は＋しない, you cannot separate 足りない (未然形＋ない） into 足りはない, 足りもない, etc.

That means that 足りない＋すぎる would technically become 足りなすぎる, without a さ.
However, native speakers often still insert the さ and don't seem to think it sounds strange at all. I can understand this happening with 一段 verbs like 足りる where the 未然形 and 連用形 appear identical, but it also happens sometimes with 五段 verbs, as in 知らなさすぎる or いらっしゃらなさそうです. (My IME also handles these just fine but has trouble converting them without the さ.) Nevertheless, inserting a さ in this case is incorrect, and strictly speaking the proper forms would be 知らなすぎる and いらっしゃらなそうです.

https://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/997445.html
http://soudan1.biglobe.ne.jp/qa5365615.html
https://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/summary/kotoba/term/141.html

I know /jp/ djt has some people who hate prescriptive rules and think they're not even worth considering, but I find it interesting.

>>17076743
There must be dictionaries of kanji somewhere. How are they ordered? I refuse to believe that there has never been anybody in japan autistic enough to come up with some kind of system.

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my 1st time learning Japanese
I started of course with Hiragana in a kind of brute way by just remembering the characters in groups and testing my knowledge on this site:
https://djtguide.neocities.org/kana/index.html

Anyone here learnt Hiragana without the initial writing? I know I'll have to start writing this shit sooner or later, but it just feels so nice to learn it as I do now.

PS Any other cool websites for practising Hiragana?

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A few lesser-talked about resources have caught my eye.

Does anyone have any opinions on the following:

Making Sense of Japanese: What the Textbooks Don't Teach You
All About Particles: A Handbook of Japanese Function Words
Pimsleur - Japanese I, II, & III

?

>>17077216
You mean writing on paper?
As a recommendation, pick any Japanese song you like, get its romaji and transliterate it back into Japanese characters. Do it for Hiragana and Katakana. You get the characters in your head in hours while enjoying content you like.

It's amazing how many people miscapitalize the words kanji, hiragana, and katakana. Maybe the grammar prescriptions of English need to be altered to justify capitalizing random Japanese words.

>>17077337
Stop being such an Autist.

>>17077284
That's a great tip! I know some characters from muh jpop songs.

>>17077231
I used the first volume of Pimsleur and I must admit I quite liked it. It served to test the waters before really starting learning Japanese.
It was really fun and a bit moving going to Tokyo and finally seeing Ueno Station years after listening and saying 「上野駅はどこですか？」

>>17077231
All About Particles is redundant because DoJG is more comprehensive and indexed online. Making Sense of Japanese is oriented towards people who already have a basic grasp on the language. Leave it until you have some reading experience so you know what he's talking about.

"/ (tsu)

>>17077419
faggot (you)

How do I make the generated kanji grid show the kanji from my mining deck? It only shows the kanji from core6k for some reason.

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I tried writing something
How is it?

>>17077497
That's a tasty taco

>>17077497
Um what is Wacom?

>>17077508
No one cares, faggot.

>>17077508
It's worth it if you have a good reason to learn it. If you need to ask, the answer is: probably not.

>>17077497
>>17077507
It's a taco? I thought it was a hot dog at first.

>>17077508
Honestly, no. The sense of accomplishment is nice, but you can get that elsewhere as well.

>>17077479
You need to set the "pattern or field name to search for" to the vocab field name of your mining deck or change the field name of your mining deck to contain the text "kanji".

>>17077497
To me it seems like that Mario World flower, the one that tries to eat Mario and comes from Pipes, but upside down.

>>17077508
Did you take an entire week just to memorize kana? Holy shit. How did you even "learned two other languages to a decent level of fluency" to begin with?

>>17077539
有難う

>>17077497
Are those pads hard to write on or is your handwriting just atrocious? I've never used one before.

>>17077678
Those are STU-520's, they aren't hard to write. It's as you say, my handwriting is just atrocious; though, is it understandable? I tried writing everything without following any stroke order.

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Congratulate me (it's heisig)

>>17076807
The real question is whether this prescriptive rule was actually true at some point or if it was made up because of the infrequency of the construction instead.

>>17077801
>7801
What software or website is that?

What's a source other than the CoR and nyaa for manga? I can't find one I'm looking for in either

>>17077815
kanji.koohii.com

>>17077849
はるか夢の址
Random blogs like manga-zip that you can find by googling "[Japanese title] raw manga"
Probably Perfect Dark, too, but I haven't used it.

>>17077801
Congratulate you for what? You are barely halfway through.

おはしょうおにいちゃん

>>17077866
城跡の旧字の城址のあとのじだね

かけっていわれてもかけないよ

>>17077866
Tried the first two options and clicked like 20+ hosts but all the uploads are dead unfortunately. Don't have PD setup

城
That's my FAVORITE kanji

>>17077914
Liked and subscribed

>>17077913
At least that means there are scans floating around somewhere on the internet. What manga?

>>17077967
神様がうそをつく。

>>17078001
zip-all has a working link, I'm downloading it right now.

I shattered both my wrists yesterday and because of that I've missed my daily Anki review. Should I just continue as normal or am I eternally fucked?

きらめき

またたき

こどうする

いのちの律動

きょうもはれるかな

>>17078040
Wow it's true. I backed out of that one after it bombarded me with ads. Thanks!

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Real kana says su with dakuten is zu, but it also says tsu with dakuten is zu. What should I make out of this? Are they interchangeable?

>>17078179
As far as I know, ず is used over づ except when rendaku occurs. For example, the 包 in 小包 is read as つつみ, so 小包 is こづつみ.
Same thing for じ and ぢ, respectively.

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>>17078179
Their pronunciation depends on dialect. Since we as foreigners don't have a native dialect you can just think of both as zu to make it simpler.

>>17078179
Another beginner confused by the abomination that is hepburn romanization. When will they learn?

>>17078192
>>17078198
>>17078200
Thanks. Are you always helpful like this or should I expect crab mentality from DJT?

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>>17078198
>じ＝ぢ＝ず＝づ

>>17078222
It depends, but usually people are helpful as long as you don't ask obvious questions that only someone who hasn't read Tae Kim would ask.

>>17078228
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fDwVprjd00
つらすずす

>>17078125
Anyone? I wish I was kidding. I just need to know if it's worth continuing Anki now that I've screwed up the spaced repetition.

>>17078125
>>17078259
You're supposed to do Anki everyday, but skipping a single day is not the end of the world. If you care, you can change your computer's clock and do 2 sets of reps in a single day.

>>17078228
The language itself is adjusted accordingly, so that it remains adequate for conversation. Tokyo Japanese often regard the green area dialects as basically incomprehensible.

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>>17078273
Ok thanks that's good to know. I'll just resume as normal then. Also this happened for some reason.

>>17078305
More importantly, how the hell did you did you shatter both wrists?

Regarding your issue, do you have older non-damaged backups?

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I guess I was just supposed to cut it open instead of ripping it off? Why is it glued on anyways...

I should've just sticked to the digital version

>>17078323
No backups unfortunately but the problem seems to have fixed itself. I just closed and reopened my default profile. Although now it says 193 Due and 20 New cards in contrast to what was quoted on that error screen.

I'll just say brick roads are not safe when going fast on a bicycle.

Why is gaijin pig Japanese handwriting always so peculiar? There are always things that are off, that no Japanese ever gets wrong.

>>17078410
They're always trying too hard or copying computer fonts. I'm different, though. My handwriting is genuine, you'll never find a more natural gaijin handwriting than mine.

えをかこうとおもうよ

モチーフなにがいいかな

>>17078410
We are intellectually inferior to the Japanese. They are so smart they created a language just to prove it.

>>17078425
エロ

>>17078431
We should have stuck with Cicero's Latin and Attic Greek.

>>17078410
because your average japanese person has written his japanese characters over a hundred thousand times by the time he reaches the age of twelve and your average gaijin has not

>>17078425
エロカワな女子

>>17078454
>superior japanese handwriting folded over a thousand times

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>>17078444
じゃあこれにする

エロいでしょ

>>17078466
A rare case where every word of the meme is true.

>>17078472
Must also be why they're so naturally inclined to drawing well.

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>>17078405

>>17078487
I feel like Westerners treat the "anime" style as an excuse to be lazy and schematic, whereas the Japanese take it seriously, at least ideally; so they explore the limits of their artistic skills in the manga style, whereas the gaijin do not.

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i barely ever practice handwriting, but is it that bad.
i know stroke order at least.

>>17078531
>i know stroke order
How do you explain that shitty 子?

>>17078531
It looks so slanted

>>17078518
It would be nice if that were the case, but you know from Deviantart what happens when westerners take the anime medium seriously.

>>17078362
All new language books glue their CDs to the back now. Anyway learning audio from the CDs is outdated.

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Anyone have that scan of a couple pages from this book that an anon posted? Curious to see what it's like inside.

>>17078575
It's good. It's the english version of something that's in the OP.

>>17078531
it's crap. copy kaisho/kyoukasho fonts, not display fonts.

>>17076735
A collection of op images if anyone wants them:
http://imgur.com/a/B0y1V

What do you use on an Android phone to figure out kanji you don't know?

>>17078410
When handwriting gets faster and more jagged, it's hard to figure out what details need to stay clear and what can be dropped.

>>17077749
Yeah, it's readable. Only one that is hard to read is your す, in my opinion. You just need to make sure you bring the swirl all the way around.

>>17077914
I like 臼 a lot. It's very aesthetic.

>>17078572
that's a sad tendency then. I don't really care about the cd since I have the contents on my hard drive anyways, but yeah, you're probably right that CDs are not that important with the internet and so on

>>17078531
Not to be rude, and it might even be partly due to the writing tool you're using, but those look pretty terrible.

are japanese spellings of lesser known foreign words arbitrary? i imagine a lot of words would be impossible to render in a unambiguously "accurate" way?

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I recently got into mnemonics and first thought I wanted to start by learning the isolated kanji with mnemonics deck, but then I realized that those mnemonics would be English mnemonics, and English is not my mother tongue. This reminded me of an anon criticizing mnemonics for radicals in general "because they just add another step when you could just learn the kanji itself", which would doubly apply to me, because I'd have to workk hard to learn the English mnemonic AND the kanji.

For words like あぶない if you wanted to make it "seems danferous" would you say あぶなそう or あぶなさそう?

>>17078804
Cool story bro

>>17078812
むずかしいね

「あぶなげ」かな

>>17078804
You don't seem to have any trouble with English, but I think what matters more is the "image" you make of the kanji in your head, not the "words" behind it, in whatever language it is. Does that make any sense?
To be honest as an ESL I had no problem remembering the stories in RTK. I guess it depends on how graphic they are.

>>17078812
あぶないに見える

>>17078812
危なそうだ
少なそうだ
The な is part of the 語幹, so there is no さ.

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I was actually really confident about 4/5 of my answers, what the fuck! I can post the questions if anyone can tell me where I went wrong.

>>17078804
mnemonics make memorization so much easier though

i find that my brain ends up creating some kind of accidental mnemonic for kanji anyway, but they're usually so nonsensical and roundabout that i think learning from RTK would have been better ultimately

once a mnemonic sticks i can't really overwrite it, so i have some weird associations in my brain

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>>17078814
I know, right?

>>17078825
>Does that make any sense?
Yes.

>I guess it depends on how graphic they are.
I think I would have problems with it. I'm having trouble visualizing basically anything. The last thing I was able to visualize in my inner eye was a face of someone close, but even that faded.

Maybe I should start doing some sort of visceralization exercises in general.

>>17078646
you turn on subtitles for kizuna ai videos

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>going to high school in japan
>never felt less motivated to study
The most I can do is have casual conversation with my friends. The schoolwork is impossible, I have no idea how I'll learn enough kanji in time to be able to do this shit.

>>17078837
Is this for a uni course? Or some online thing?

>>17078881
Did you just out yourself as underage?
inb4 "b-b-but i'm 18 bro!!!!"

>>17078881
A prime shitpost ladies and gentleman. The image, the green arrows, the image, the word high-school, everything about this post is so marvelous.

>>17078893
It's not proof I'm underage, 三年生 are 18. Whether or not I am one doesn't really matter

>>17078896
>green arrows
They're called meme darts.

>>17078898
It does, because if you're underage (which you are), you shouldn't be here, much less shitposting. So fuck off already.

>>17078910
I'm not shit posting, just wondering if anyone else knows good ways to study kanji that are commonly used in classrooms.

>>17078881
Who are you quoting?

>>17078906
huh, I thought they were called joke pointers

>>17078934
Myself.

>>17078939
Who were you addressing when you said those things? We're going to need a bit more context to help you.

>>17078944
haha

>Learn some nip
>Can't stop downloading h manga because I keep finding god tier stuff
Send help

Is"everyone thinks it's cool" みんなはかっこいいと思う or みんなはかっこいいと思っている?

>>17078410
I tried to write some kanji, but my hand hurts after writing just this. The gaijin curse...

>>17079001
このネイティブめ！

>>17079001
So basically you are posting this pic because you secretly - or maybe not so secretly - hope people will praise your handwriting to inflate your ego.

That is a very shameful tactic. Your ancestors would be ashamed of you.

>>17076773
there's this book http://www.tuttlepublishing.com/language-books/japanese/kanji-books/japanese-kanji-kana

http://i.imgur.com/MiEP7On.png
http://i.imgur.com/FAyDsoQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/vbyCIVw.png
http://i.imgur.com/QCvN6Zb.png
http://i.imgur.com/weVghaf.png

Apparently only 2/5 are correct, can someone tell me if they can see any of the errors?

I don't even care about the test, I am just really curious because I was really confident.

>>17079024
If we are being utterly honest, I just want to look at other people's handwriting and grade myself against the rest of /djt/. In some way I want to "represent" /djt/ with something better than the scribbles posted before. I do not feel highly about my handwriting though.

>>17079047
If we are being utterly honest, the guy you're replying to was right. Pretty transparent why you posted that pic.

>>17079056
I will take it down so that I cannot be mis-praised for it. But I would have liked to look at other anons' beautiful handwriting.

>>17079065
Not him but man, everyone knows why you did it. Including yourself in some level, except you don't have the guts to admit it.

That being said, you are on 4chan, nobody gives flying fuck if you want to inflate your ego. Just leave the fucking picture there and stop acting like a bullied teenager.

>>17079089
He was hoping someone would beg him to post it again, or white knight for him.

>>17079089
I'm autistic. How to invite djt anons to post more handwriting? Is there no good way then?

>>17079101
DJT anon here. My handwriting is actually better than yours, but I don't fuck with phones or cameras. So consider yourself lucky, cunt.

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dysgraphia lol

>>17079118
I want to consider myself unlucky though, since I won't get to see it.

What even gives you the idea that mine was good? The misplaced lines in practically every kanji? The way I write 夜 differently both times, and still get the final stroke wrong?

>>17079148
>final stroke
Technically the final stroke is a dot, but you get the idea. The seventh one.

>>17079148
Your strokes flow well. It looks natural. However, I'd actually have to see a full sentence, with both hiragana and katakana, to judge your handwriting properly. Nevertheless, you're probably still better than most people here who never even considered touching handwriting.

>>17079001
You make me sick.

>>17079120
did you draw these with a mouse?

>>17079183
Yes.

>>17079187
Honestly, pretty good then.

>>17079181
I chose a poem by the Tang (唐) Li Bai (李白), which I suppose is called 春夜洛城聞笛, or "Hearing a flute on a spring night in Luoyang", since I wanted to write just the kanji. My hand still hurts because of ulnar tunnel syndrome, I think, so I will not write anymore...

>>17079120
な looks almost unrecognisable

>>17078996
Neither

>>17078996
>みんなはかっこいいと思う or みんなはかっこいいと思っている?

Those would mean that you, the speaker, think everyone is cool, if I'm not mistaken. The latter construction implies intent. ex. この本を買うと思っている。＝　I'm thinking about buying this book. So you'd want the first format, but not the exact sentence you provided.

>>17079222
Are you kidding? If you actually meant that you have issues. It's easily recognizable as な.

>>17079351
>. So you'd want the first format, but not the exact sentence you provided.
Such as?

>>17079396
みんなはそれがかっこいいと思う
Think about how you'd describe someone.
〇さんは悲しいと思う。＝　I think x-san is sad.
みんなは悲しいと思う。＝ I think everyone is sad.
rather than
みんなは映画が悲しいと思う。＝ Everyone thinks the movie is sad.

Does that make sense? In the first two the speaker being the one thinking is implied as is often the case and みんな is the thing being thought about.

>>17079439
Yeah I get it, but what if you wright みんなは「かっこいい」と思う?

>>17079464
Then you would quoting direct speech. Which is okay if you want to quote something someone said. You can add a sentence final particle there.

>>17079464
Oh, if that's what you meant, then yes that works, since you're quoting them, everyone.

>>17079483
>then you would be quoting direct speech
I can't quote a thought? Like how in English you could say something like "I bet you just thought 'man that was cool' right?" or something.

>>17079516
It doesn't matter if it's the same thing. It's just a convention to call it all "direct speech". It can be something unspoken.

>>17079483
>>17079549
Literally nobody that talks about this kind of thing outside of english people talking about japanese calls this "direct speech".

Which IME do people use to type?

Does google IME really save everything I type?

>>17079574
I just use the Microsoft one.

たわいのないまいにちが

いつもかわらないまいにちが

おわり

またはじまりますように

>>17079599
Pardon?

Is it normal to not remember most words the day after you first see them in Anki? It takes me a few days to consistently remember them. Am I just dumb or is this the way it works? I'm doing 20 cards a day usually.

>>17079682

That's normal. Eventually you'll establish a resentment for them and you'll never forget them again.

I'm using the image pack and I've basically established rivalries with people that show up on words I forget.

[この世界で初めて人間を産んだとされる存在] am I correct to assume this means "An existence that's considered to have given birth to the first human"

I thought 春夏秋冬 was a funny term at first glance but now it's very nice, especially how the pitch accent plays, at least how the anki woman says it.

>>17079682
MOST of them I don't know. But I certainly feel like every day there are a few villain words that just seem to be harder to stick than the others.

What's your correct % on the anki data for the deck? I mean obviously everyone aims for 100%, but realistically 90% is what you should be going for I believe.

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>struggle for hundreds of days with vocab until I can't fucking take it anymore.
>try to read untranslated manga (Young Jump).
>every single page has words I've never seen before.
>can't understand shit of whatever they are talking about.

I honestly am not sure what to do now. I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than opening anki ever again.

Is there any other way to continue learning other than manga and vns?

>>17079886
How do you only have 124 young cards? How many cards do you learn a day, 5?

>>17079895
I quit for some months then resumed.
All the cards I reviewed then had MONTHS in each interval so I guess most of my young cards matured easily

>>17079886
Assuming you just started reading, you are gonna have to get used to how the language expresses ideas. You are not just looking at raw words anymore, you are reading entire stories and pieces of dialog and trying to make sense out of it, that a requires a different set of skills. Skills that you don't acquire by simply doing vocabulary and nothing else.

So work on grammar and work on your reading comprehension. The latter basically means read more and keep reading more. Go after shit you don't understand, try to make sense of it, research a sentence that makes no sense, ask questions, etc. In time you'll get a hang of how the language behaves.

In short, keep reading. Every time you reach a wall and you manage to pass it, the next time a similar grammar construction or sentence comes around, you'll know it by heart. Take down enough walls and eventually you will have a hard time finding something that puzzles you.

Also, I would probably drop that core and start a mining deck.

Am I setting myself up for failure by not doing any isolated kanji study? Memorized the kana, and now I'm making my way through Tae Kim, and Japanese the manga way (might be redundant, but it couldn't hurt to see the concepts explained in different ways.) I figure I'll pick up some vocab from those as well, and I'll try to make my way through a simple game.

>>17079756
You're close enough.
I would say that 初めて人間を産んだ is more like "first gave birth to humans," instead of "gave birth to the first humans." But that might be nitpicking.

>>17079938
While you are absolutely right, it hardly changes the overall meaning in the end.

>>17079936
No. Not to mention a lot of people prefer studying vocabulary, aka actual words, as opposed to "isolated kanji".

Arguments could be made for both sides, but you'll eventually need to know words if you plan on reading.

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>>17078846
Last month an anon here quipped that the first stroke of 室 is a dangling piece of shit to remind you it's pronounced しつ which is actually pretty helpful. Anyone else got any winners?

>>17079936
The way I see it, the Japanese learned their language (and really any ethnicity) through conversational and real life experiences, and through consumption of media. We gaijin pigs only have media though, unfortunately, and so I see isolated brute force memorization as a barely passable replacement for these real life experiences. I would say you should memorize AND get real experience through reading. Of course, do it once you feel like it.

Anyone should correct me if they've taken a different approach because this is what I've been doing for a couple years and it's working fairly decently although I'm always looking for ways to improve.

>>17079971
Anki is just a tool to jog your memory. It's a replacement for childhood association that we didn't get

>>17079974
Yeah, that's what I meant, kind of. I'm really just taking a comprehension approach to the language by watching a lot of media, reading a bit, and memorizing a lot. Am I fucking up by not writing essays and talking to people?

>>17079936
The way you've phrased the question is curious. You can pick up isolated kanji study at any point if you decide it will be helpful. The effort you've put into Japanese up to that point won't be erased.

>>17079930
YES
Finally a real and assertive answer.
Thank you so much anon. I won't forget this.

>>17079998
No but the time you spend doing kanji study instead of something actually useful will.

>>17080016
It takes 20-30 minutes

>>17080034
it takes 6 months

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>>17079999
>9999
認めました

>>17080050
あんだー　ぷれっしゃー

What is the difference between 行き　（いき）　and 行き　（ゆき）

I do no understand

>>17080097
>行き (Noun - used as a suffix) - Bound for ...
>ex: マイアミ行きの電車
http://jisho.org/search/%E8%A1%8C%E3%81%8D

>reading mark twain in Japanese because I've run out of conent

バスターミナルの近くでは

What does the で　mean here? I'm sorry, I'm a complete scrub and trying to force myself through reading while I learn. I understand the gist of the sentence, but I don't understand what the で is doing.

>>17080322
"At the vicinity of the bus terminal"
So "near the bus terminal..."

>>17080322
"De" means "of." For example, Yo soy chikaku de la estacion で バス terminal.

>>17080353

I see, so it's a particle within the sentence fragment referred to by the は, or something like that. Right?

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Does anyone else get virtually all of their listening practice from voice works/YouTube videos of girls whispering or pretending to be your sister or something? I feel like this is not going to have a good effect on me.

>>17080395
Think of it like this, the area near the bus terminal is being marked as both the location of event (で) and as the topic (は).
It's not just the location of event, it's the location AND the topic so it's being marked by 2 particles.

Whatever they are talking about, it now has the vicinity near the bus terminal as the topic. At least that's what it looks like from the little fragment you gave us with no context or no follow up.

>>17079886
>struggle for hundreds of days
Liar. Takes you 300 days (less than a year) to finish Core6k at a normal pace, you have been study really badly and it's not Anki's fault. You can't learn Japanese with that attitude.

>はたから見てる分にはな
From what I understand 傍から見る is just saying to look at the development of something while doing nothing; essentially being a bystander. But I don't really know what 分にはな is doing here, any help?

>>17080590
You have to give people more than this.

>>17080839
Little confused about what you mean, can you elaborate?

>>17080850
Exactly.

>>17080590
When asking for help on a particular sentence you post the full sentence, as well as at least two lines that come before and after it. Or simply screenshot your text hooker window or wherever else it is from. Do not post bits in isolation with zero context.

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>>17080864
My bad then, I was just looking for clarification on 分 here but I suppose context was necessary.

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いきてるしんでるよみがえるぅ

How to Say:
I want to live in a town where people are kind?
Do I use na, da, or nothing ?

人が親切(な)(だ)(x)町に住みたいです。

>作品名長くて覚えられないから茅野ママって呼んでる件
What is 件 and what is it doing?
It's a comment from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNeZt98j0ZY

>>17080906
な

>>17080912
thanks

>>17080891
https://djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#分

Maybe someone else can help you more than this, but I don't feel like I have enough information to know what's going on. Read that link and see if you can think of anything.

>>17080923
Well 4chan butchered the link. Just look for 分 in the glossary, it's under intermediate.

what the hell is a 槌の子, just a fat dumb snake?

>>17080923
I think I understand the gist now, something like "(the degree/amount of) doing nothing but observing", but I could still be completely wrong. If it helps to further context, one of MCs acquaintances was talking about earlier how a girl was complaining about him while he was absent, and he didn't really do anything about it.

>>17080912
>>17080906
Maybe if either of you can help me out, 人が親切な町に住みたいです sounds to me like you are saying people want to live in a kind city. As in, with 親切な町 you are saying the city is kind.

親切な人がいる町に住みたい sounds better to me since it's going 親切な人 aka it's qualifying the people and saying kind people, not 親切な町 which would be saying the city is kind.

I'm guessing you guys are right though since I'm still a beginner so can either of you explain where/how is my thinking process wrong?

>>17080891
He agrees it's 面白い looking at it as a bystander but shows reluctance to be involved. You could use the same sentence in a context where for example a guy walks into a cage with several lions and plays with them and your friend goes 面白いな！

>>17080923
"not enough information" is not your problem. That's more than enough to see in what way it's used. You simply don't know Japanese.

>>17080957
>Maybe someone else can help you more than this
Stop being an asshole, I never claimed to be know it all, I just figured it was worth linking him the grammar so he could read it. I even said someone else can probably help him more, but maybe you just didn't read that in your hurry to throw shit.

>>17080957
Thanks, it's all clear now. Also, is 傍から見る strictly used only for being an observant bystander, or is there a negative, reluctant nuance to do so? The dictionaries I've found don't give much info on context.

>>17080950
どの街まで行けば親切な人に必ず会えるよ。だが、親切な町で確率はよっぽどいい。

>>17080975
>I'm guessing you guys are right though since I'm still a beginner
>replies in full Japanese
So you are not really trying to help the beginner as much as you are trying to frustrate and mock him, right?

>>17080988
I just more confident in my Japanese than English.

>>17080972
"傍から見る" does have absolutely no implication or nuance on its own and just means what it means.

>>17080988
He tried him skill.
His Japanese is full of mistakes, but writing in Japanese is a very good traning.

>>17081059
his skill

>>17081065
I am training English as well as him.

What does it mean on jisho when it says this above words "Taru-adjective, Adverb taking the 'to' particle"

おとうふたべたい

えだまめもたべたい

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>利にかなっているからやっている
I can't figure out this part. On Jisho get 利 as advantage/benefit but かなう could be a lot of things.

Is the character (猫猫) pondering whether they are castrated because it's advantageous?

Tough question I guess but I hope someone can help me out. Or probably it just looks tough from where I'm standing.

>>17081127
宦官かな

いまのでもそんなしゅうかんってあるのかな

>>17081127
Wordplay of 理にかなう?

>>17081127
It's for their own good と思う

>>17081127
Always google first. It's a phrase.

>>17081150
>>17081153
Even assuming it is 理にかなう which means "to make sense", I still can't see what it could be trying to say. I feel like a fucking donkey.

I can come up with stuff like "she is wondering if they are castrated because it makes sense" but it kinda sounds stupid.

I'm really trying to avoid asking for just a plain translation because it's against the rules but I probably couldn't be more lost right now.

>>17081078
どうして日本人はここにいるの？

>>17081186
She is not "wondering" or questioning anything.　Don't skip parts of the sentence and it'll probably be easier to understand. The 歪だと思いつつ is important.

>>17081197
I got "wondering" from だろうと考える. Truth be told I can't make much sense of 思いつつ (while thinking) with 考える.

While thinking... she pondered? What am I missing? Is it saying that while she thinks it's a distorted thing, she reflects that they probably do it because it makes sense?

I can't come up with a translation that doesn't sound retarded apparently.

>>17081231
思う is also used for opinions. 考える is the more "physical" or deduction kind of thinking.

>>17081196
DJTがここにあるから

>>17081231
It appears you have a lot more misunderstandings than just the 利にかなって. You don't know what 思い means, you misunderstand だろう etc. Using a J-J dictionary would clear up all of these. 思い - ある物事について考えをもつこと。 考える - 判断する。結論を導き出す。

>>17081255
>>17081246
I see the difference between 思う and 考える now but I still can't make sense of the sentence.

"While she holds the opinion that it is a distorted thing, she reflects they probably do it because it makes sense". This is what I get but it doesn't sound right. Is that even close?

I should probably give it a rest since I'm starting to get extremely nervous and frustrated towards my lack of comprehension and I feel like you all know what the sentence is saying, you just don't want to tell me.

>>17081306
The problem here is that you are trying to make sense of it in English. Think about it in Japanese.

>>17081306
It doesn't sound right because it's awkward English. But the gist is right. While she does believe the act to be twisted, she also reckons they probably have a good reason for doing so.
>and I feel like you all know what the sentence is saying, you just don't want to tell me.
By telling you outright you wouldn't learn anything.

おなかすいた

プリンたべたい

>>17081359
>>17081333
I can't make the jump from "they do it because it makes sense" (which is what 理にかなっているからやっている literally stands for) to "they do it for a good reason".

That's my whole problem here. Somehow I was supposed to make that jump but I was literally fucking incapable to. I mean I know they are related but to do something because it makes sense and to do something for a good reason are not exactly the same.

I also know I was supposed to think about it in a Japanese way as opposed to trying to convert it to English, but I just fucking couldn't.

I have never been so depressed and disillusioned towards my learning of this language as I am right now. I am still truly grateful to everyone who tried to help me though.

>>17081427
Think about 理にかなう and why it means "to make sense"
理 + に + かなう
Don't forget that 理にかなっているからやっている all modifies ことなのだろう as well.
>I have never been so depressed and disillusioned towards my learning of this language as I am right now.
Get used to it, it happens a lot.

>>17081460
god bless you

>>17081460
i know the matter is already settled but I think that こと could be the command one. so the character is not saying it's probably something they do for a reason, but instead it's something they probably have to do for a reason;something they ought to do for a reason.

implies they are commanded to do so as opposed to just being the intangible thing こと. just food for thought

ステイツよ、あなたは神の名の下に殺し過ぎる

Currently reading Kino no Tabi. It's a lot easier than I was expecting.

>>17081946
Kino no Tabi is easy though

>>17081946
It's kind of the Hanahira of LNs in terms of reading difficulty. The only issue you might have are with its themes.

>>17081954
Well I'm a beginner who's never read before. I didn't think I could actually do it but I am!

最近、漫画やノベルゲーのようなことで日本語を勉強しなければよかったと感じる。
皆はいつも同じようなことを俺様に言われていて、文法なんさが平気だけど俺様の話し方は少し変で、珍しいか可笑しい単語をよく使うようだぜ。
今日仕事に皆が笑えてちゃった、俺様が何か小説だけに使うべき単語を会話に使ってしまったからな。

「会いに行く」代わりに「訪ねる」と言うのは可笑しいようだ。知らなかった。

>>17081995
とてもいいこと
基本的に日本人は、外人が使うおかしい日本語が大好きだからね

I'm reading　ココロコネクト now, which is actually a lot harder than I was expecting. The narrator seems to love florid language, although you could say that for almost all japanese prose I guess.

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>>17082057
Be careful, you might accidentally fall into the common trap of thinking Inaba's best girl. It's actually Yui.

>万年筆
Why's this shit an n5 word?

>>17082130
Because it's a common, everyday object that uses three low-level kanji (1st through 3rd grade) that are all used in other easy words you should know (一万, 今年, 来年, 鉛筆, etc.).
If you can remember this word and the fact that it's a Chinese word that uses 音読み, you'll never forget the 音読み of these three kanji.

>>17082130
You have to use one when you do JLPT

I also think that 万年筆 is an interesting word to learn because of the literal meaning—a pen that you don't have to constantly keep dipping into ink is a pen that lasts ten thousand years. It's similar to the words for thermos, 魔法瓶, a magic bottle that keeps things hot or cold, or Kaleidoscope, 万華鏡, a looking glass of ten thousand flowers. It gives the language a certain charm.

Do you guys use kana or romaji input for your IME?

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>>17082285

>>17082296
How long did it take to learn the kana keyboard? I can type romaji really fast already so I'm not sure if I should switch.

I want to use the equivalent of さぁ in English conversations in real life. What do I say? I feel like "Who knows" sounds dumb

>>17082276
So, Eternal Super Pen, in other words.

>>17082306
"Really makes you think"

>>17082306
Just say "duuuuude" every five seconds and you'll be all set.

>>17082303
I just write in normal romaji and it converts into kana. At least the default Windows IME does not have (afaik) kana keyboard.
As you can see it does not have a "romaji" input in the options.
Same think on my Loonix. I use romaji.

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>>17082328
>>17082303
Scratch that. Check pic related.

>>17082054

そうかもしれん。
俺様の仕事場所によく居るおばこは最近私を好きになったと思って、俺と一緒に帰るために彼女がいつも俺の仕事の終わりまでに待っている。

>>17082309
No, it's Ten-Thousand-Year Pen.
Don't trigger my autism.

>>17082364
That anon also has the right idea

>まん‐ねん【万年】
>2.［接頭］名詞に付いて、いつまでも変わらず、その状態であるという意を表す。「万年青年」「万年補欠」

万年 is sometimes used figuratively to mean eternal, unchanging, etc. because it is a very long time

>>17082364
Sorry, Eternal Super Brush.

>>17082370
I understand that 万 is used as the quintessential "big" number representing something too many to count, as in 万象 or 万物. But in my opinion using the literal number ten thousand instead of trying to localize it into something more naturally English-sounding is prettier because I'm a stupid weeaboo.
It should also be written 萬年 whenever possible in my opinion.

Word Sign「Eternal Super Brush」

i imported some shonen magazines and now im scribbling in them, im hyped.

>>17082394

I prefer it simplified myself. 禺午

When should I start using J-J decks?

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I'm on my way... Hoping for 3500 by the end of the year. My only regret is that the font rendering for kanjigrid's pic export is so disgusting.

>>17082450
When you feel you're able to read simple material at a decent speed without looking stuff up every second. Once you hit basic proficiency it's better (imo) to spend a little more time with J-J to get a better sense of the words' nuances, but if you do it at a beginner level you'll take forever and gimp yourself for no reason.

>>17082450
... decks? Never. Just use J-J dictionaries while you read. As to when, whenever you finished a couple VNs/books/whatever and feel somewhat comfortable while reading.

>>17082472
fuck off with this seditious anti-anki drivel

>>17082464
hey i installed that plugin a while ago but never figure out how to actually use it could you teach a retard like me? thanks

>>17082338
That's what I'm doing too with mozc.

>>17082306
Once you've been introduced to the smoothness and convenience of japanese, everything in english sounds dumb. Which is easier to say, "or something" or 「とか」? Which is easier to weave into a nicely flowing sentence, "et cetera" or 「等」?

>>17082493
You can't learn Japanese.

>>17082493

I am using the one that lets you scan cards over multiple decks but has fucked-up font rendering. There is also one that only can scan one deck but has fine font rendering. So if you only have one deck to scan that one is fine. Regardless of which one you have, all you have to do is hit tools->generate kanji grid->input the field name you use for vocab->change the "group by" setting to either "order found" for a representation of your memory or "score" for a pretty gradient.

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>>17082509

Oh yeah. The fork that lets you scan multiple decks also has more sorting options, like by kanji kentei level, which is cool. So you just have to take the crap font rendering if you want that. God, it's so bad.

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>>17082524
You can change the font to w/e you want.

Question on ou and ei double vowels. Now I may be wrong but Kim pronounced せんせい as if the い was actually an え and pronounced おはよう as if the う as if it was an お. So which one is it?

1- -ou and -ei must *always* be pronounced as -oo and -ee.
2- Kim was wrong.
3- There's a logical rule.
4- It's a dialect thing/each word is different.

I'm a nice guy so I made this question in a way you can answer me just by typing a number without wasting your time explaining, hehe.

>>17082592
First one.

>>17082592
3 and 1 tbqh

>>17082450
never

>>17082592
I'm pretty sure it's 4 actually, for ei at least.

>>17082592
You can pronounce the い in えい if you want to. It's not incorrect and people say it all the time.

>>17082592
I don't know about えい because there are words like 姪, which I believe are usually pronounced as えい and not ええ, but for おう I'm pretty sure it's 1 unless the う is a verb ending (思う, さまよう)

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Whoever updated the materials with the library thank you you just made my day.

>>17077231
>Making Sense of Japanese: What the Textbooks Don't Teach You
I love this book. You can read and enjoy it even if you're not that far in your studies, but to really get something out of it you need a good foundation. I went back to it multiple times over the course of my studies.

>>17082711
>a good foundation
what does that entail?

>>17082721
It honestly depends where you're building. Soil type will determine what sort of foundation is best. Typically a stone and mortar foundation is best for most people.

Some people pronounce えい and ええ differently and some people pronounce them the same, but they're still recognized as phonemically the same sound.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%95%B7%E9%9F%B3
>かせいで（稼）、へい（塀）などは、「カセイデ」「ヘイ」と発音する者と「カセーデ」「ヘー」と発音する者があるが、どちらの発音をするかに関わらず、え列の音節に「い」を添えて表記する。

The reason for the difference in spelling is etymological. えい is used for inflectional endings like 稼いで（稼ぎて） and 招いて（招きて） as well as for 音読み in reference to the way they were originally transcribed into Japanese, like 生（せい）, 零（れい）, 明（めい）. ええ is used in native Japanese words like おねえさん.

It's kind of like how "cot" and "caught" are spelled differently because they used to be pronounced differently, but now they're pronounced exactly the same by many people as well.

おお and おう are also the same, but おお is only used in words that used to be written おほ or おを, like おおきい（おほきい）.

>>17082592
Both せんせい and せんせえ（せんせー） are acceptable.
せんせえ（せんせー）and おはよお（おはよー）sound a little casual, though.
I (native) think that there isn't a logical rule. (Like >>17082667 said, 姪 is always pronounced as めい)

How is 是 read in the phrase 〇〇を是とする

ぜ?

>>17082850
http://www.practical-japanese.com/2010/10/blog-post_329.html

>>17082858
Thanks

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Can anyone tell me what the Kanji before 違いない is? Can't fucking figure it out.

>>17082955
It's a shorthand/cursive version of 間.

>>17082962
Fucking hell man, shit like this is impossible to look up. No wonder I didn't find it.
Thanks for the help.

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>>17082955

Anyone know something good to train pronounciation while driving? Like, something that I could repeat after?

>>17083007
Repeating phrases isn't going to make your pronunciation better.

>>17083007
You can use any audio source you want. Look into "shadowing"

>>17083028
Of course it is

>>17083028
>repeating what a native speaker says over and over won't help pronunciation
>learning how to pronounce words the way that people have learned to since the dawn of language doesn't work

whoa. . .

>>17083032
>Of course it is
No, it's not. Repeating random phrases without even knowing the correct pronunciation is only going to create bad habits.

>>17083051
But you do know the correct pronunciation, that's the whole point of shadowing

http://roadtoepic.com/language-shadowing-learn-a-language-by-looking-like-a-crazy-person/

>>17083051
I'm pretty sure he was talking about a language disk type deal. Not having some weird ass mantra that he made up himself with no outside input.

>>17083032
>shadowing
Doesn't sound bad. The only problem is that I can't pause while driving, and just speaking after someone seems like it'd be super hard. I guess I could try it with some simpler drama CD? Though it still seems like something that has short pauses after sentences would be better for the start.

>>17083051
I know how I'm supposed to pronounce things through exposure, I just can't do it because I'm not used to speaking. Like, I can hear my horrible pronounciation every time I try to speak. It hurts.
So I'm trying to fix that by speaking more.

>>17083057
Japanese isn't like english: syllables always sound the same. There is no need to do something like shadowing unless you're looking to increase your flexibility when talking in the language. Pitch accent is a whole another story.

ここにいる絶対に話せるようになれないバカ野郎が

>>17083083
意味不明

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>>17083078
>syllables always sound the same
>Pitch accent is a whole another story

>>17083092
What's there not to understand? Syllabes do always sound the same, don't they?

>>17083106
They don't, because pitch accent makes them sound different

橋 does not sound like 箸 even though both use the same syllables

>>17083111
The syllable itself doesn't sound different, it's just the intonation. Pitch accents are also one of the dumbest things in Japanese and is not something you can simply practice, as no one would be austistic to the point of memorizing all the varied pitch accents that are present in japanese words. Listening is the best way to go.

>>17082592
Sometimes you can tell the difference because of the pitch accent

>>17083075
I think there's some exercises in the Genki CDs, thought there's not enough content to last you very long. Each dialogue has a track where they say it and you repeat it.

>>17083140
Do you understand that that is literally what the first guy was asking about? Listening and repeating to learn how to accurately pronounce words, pitch and all.

>>17078192
There are words like 続く（つづく） and 縮まる（ちぢまる）, which are spelled like that for reasons other than rendaku, so I think the rabbit hole goes a little deeper.

>>17078826
×　危ないに見える
○　危なく見える
You don't use に to turn 形容詞 into 副詞。

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>new Eushully game
Apparently similiar to Kamidori

>>17083615
Wrong thread

>>17083624
It's related to learning Japanese

>>17083645
No it isn't.

>>17083615
Wondering if you can hook text from it or Kamidori, if anyone downloaded it could you try it?

Today I Ankidroned for 50 minutes and didn't do anything else!

>>17083662
Hooking the dialogue works with ITHVNR. No idea about all the "gameplay"-text.

>>17083654

If it's untranslated it's related you leaky vagina. "compelling content" is an essentially part of any language.

>>17083686
That's more than enough, thank you for answering.

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What does his hat say

>>17083797
ファシャネク ?

>>17083797
Looks like ファックオフ mirrored

Months and months ago, maybe even over a year (might have even been on /a/, that is), someone got into a conversation here about dropping する from a list of commands. The context brought up at some point was a panel from a kantai collection doujinshi with a boatgirl saying suru verbs without the suru, and the nuance was "that the action be done", basically. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about and have any other examples?

Are there established guidelines for when the がぎぐげご sounds should be pronounced with a hard g- vs. the more nasally ng-?

>>17084127
When you're an upper/middle class business person from central tokyo aged 40 or up.

>>17084139
To be clear this is when you should use ng.

>>17083615
Currently torrenting this but when I tried to download the crack from AS my browser said it has a virus

>>17076735
Where is a good place to start when trying to learn words? I have a decent grasp of grammatical structure but the words fucking kill me. Its Yotsuba of all this, Im having a terrible time like where its written that her neighbor says

そこわいといていいぞー

I can at least infer that わ is actually が, but そこ means [there] いと means [to] and て means [the]. いいぞー means [OK]. Together though it all means [Good luck with that], while just そこがいといて translates to [Farewell].

Am I just getting some bad translations or is there something Im still not getting?

>>17085286
Read a grammar guide and start doing a vocab deck like core2k/6k or anon core 5k.

>>17085286
Is that from the first volume? // what page is it on?

>>17085288
Im downloading the Grammar ref from the sticky rn among other things
>>17085293
Page 12, just realized it was her dad. The pants threw me off...

>>17085300
>Page 12, just realized it was her dad. The pants threw me off...
It's お not わ
>そこおいといていいぞー
>追い
>It's okay to bring it up to there
..or something like that. I don't know. Personally, I would just go by the pictures and associate the sentence with what is happening, but I'm not very efficient in my studies as I'm just doing this for fun and I don't want to burn out.
Have a fun journey, Anon :3

>>17085328
Well, that explains things a bit better. Guess I need to focus on my letters a bit more. Thanks (You)

>>17085286
Isn't that an accent or intonation way of saying 置いといて?

>八百屋
>[8][hundred][store]
>vegetable store

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>17076735
Anyone mind recommending a book for particles
still unclear with some

ワカナハニポムニテアル

>>17085568
Do you mean physics?

>>17085492
one of those is dead because of supermarkets so it doesnt matter

>>17085492
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/八百長#Etymology

>Said to derive from 八百屋 (やおや, ​yaoya) "green grocer", perhaps from a particular grocer suspected of rigging sumo matches.

The Vegetable Store of Eight Hundred Rigged Matches if you need an mnemonic

サンショウウオの仲間で体が小さいカスミサンショウウオは、西日本の川などに住んでいます。最近は数が少なくなっていて、将来いなくなる心配があります。

Sorry for the scrub question. は　and　が　are both topic particles, right？ So in the first sentence:

サンショウウオの仲間で体が小さいカスミサンショウウオは

Is the が after 体 referring to the body of the salamander? So is the topic both the salamander and the salamander's body? Or does the が　serve some other purpose?

>>17085690
が is never a topic marker. It is always a case marker. Topic is not a case.

>>17085694

I don't understand but will google until I do. Thank you.

おはようございます

おにいさま

たうえ、てつだえ

>>17085701
https://8020japanese.com/wa-vs-ga/

>>17082760
>Some people pronounce えい and ええ differently and some people pronounce them the same, but they're still recognized as phonemically the same sound.
That's the opposite of phonemically being the same sound.

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>RTK

How do you guys feel about Japanese the Manga Way?. I like the examples since they relate directly to what I want to use Japanese for, and I just find it more interesting to read than Tae Kim. Would it be okay as my main source of grammar knowledge?

>>17085868
being a phoneme means that there are words that are only differentiated by this difference (えい or ええ at the end of a word)

if this doesn't exist, meaning that there is free variation between the two (as it seems to happen), that means that えい and ええ are two realizations of an allophone

>>17085925
Phonemes are the building blocks of morphemes. It has nothing to do with differentiation, that's the linguistics 101 simplified version. If native speakers are conscious enough about the difference between two sounds that, in the absence of phonotactic influences, they still pronounce them differently, they are different phonemes. æ and ɛə have a mutually exclusive distribution in American English and no words are differentiated by them, but they are still different phonemes.

>>17085937
just because they're not the same sound doesn't mean they're not the same phoneme

>>17085983
Some instances of えい can only be realized as え plus い.
All instances of ええ can only be realized as some form of long え, not え plus い.
えい as in 先生 can be realized phonetically as えー or えい. Phonemically, it is distinct from えー and えい because it can be realized either way.

Allophones are alternative realizations of the same phoneme. If you want to say that the two realizations of えい as in 先生 are the same phoneme, that would be correct, but it is not correct to say that えい and えー are allophones in general, and it's also incorrect (not to mention misleading even if you don't care about being technically correct) to describe what's going on as "some speakers say them differently, some don't".

If you wanted to make a phoneme inventory of Japanese, you wouldn't consider えい as in 先生 to be special compared to えい in general and えー, so you wouldn't count it as its own phoneme. But making phoneme charts is part of the discipline of summarizing the language's typology, not part of the discipline of phonetics. There are a important phonemic-phonotactic rules in every language (such as, for example, obligatory but psychologically unimportant coarticulation details) that are almost never qualified in such phoneme inventory charts.

>>17085985
>There are a important
a lot of important*