Idols today are the result of decades of trying to pin point

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>>16822573
I agree OP, but you'll get barely any replies since the idolfags here just stay recluded in their generals and don't look at the rest of the board.

>>16822670
>don't look at the rest of the board.
Oh boy I sure love all those threads about Touhou characters! They're pure quality!

>>16822684
Why is this always the response? I think Touhou image dumps are shit too.

>Stop liking what I don't like

>>16822777
at what point in the OP did it tell anyone to stop liking idols?

why are you so defensive that you have to create a strawman argument to mock?

>>16822573
whats worse is the actual talented girls are wasted on it and underpaid compared to girls in much smaller idol groups.

it doesn't matter how well you can sing seeing as 47 other girls are going to being singing over you so how well an idol can sing pretty much means jackshit.

and it's not like I'm not shallow and ONLY care about looks. the genuinely attractive girls are pretty much as popular as the average looking ones because people don't care about actual beauty all they care about is their gimmicks like idols are different flavours of soda.

"sure she's really attractive but I really like short hair so I'm going to go for one of the 10 girls with short hair.

each girl is drowned out by every other girl, they pretty much cancel each other out. idol groups like AKB don't rely on fans but rely on ＳＵＰＥＲ FANS who are obsessed with one girl and buy the album 48 times for the chance to get their favourite idol's collectable card in the album.

they don't have 48 members because anyone likes the sound of 48 people singing at once and they don't have 48 members because anyone likes watching 48 people dance on stage.

they have 48 people because some business man done the maths and figured out 48 girls is the absolute limit to how many girls you can put into a group, so that they have the best chance of attracting a lonely wota with a girl that appeals to their niche taste.

it doesn't matter how attractive or talented you are.

all that matters is if the producers think you have a niche appeal that will attract new fans.

>>16822791
Praytell, OP, what's the fucking point of this thread? I tried to analyze the regurgitated rant you posted, but beyond the passive-aggressive tone I fail to understand what's your problem with it.

>idols today are a result of asking fans about what they like, this is somehow bad
I'll give you a bad news: fan opinion doesn't matter, these agencies don't run surveys before making these groups and they don't collect fan opinions while they are active, either

>idol and artists are making themselves more relatable to the masses and looking more down-to-earth, I have no idea but this is somehow bad too even though the "pop" in pop music literally stand for "popular", that is "of the people"
So it's a trend that involves the whole music to international level, which had been going on for the good half of the last century, but you're making it out to be an idol-only thing for the sake of your pointless, jaded rant?

>looking more humble and homely means they're literally club hostesses, they also apparently shout over each other (?)
Holy non-sequitur, Batman

>group lineups change over times, therefore it means the members are meaningless, leaving the group means they're "kicked out because they are not popular anymore", don't ask me where I heard any of that, I made up half of this shit along the way
Edginess aside, you just descibed every workplace ever, there's a reason why offices aren't staffed by 80 years old grandpas, either.

>>16822846
Hey, OP, stop patting your own back and go rant here. With any luck, this is Keyakizaka time so you'll have at least one person on your side. :DDD
>>>16819147

>buy the album 48 times for the chance to get their favourite idol's collectable card in the album.
Nah, they buy it for the event tickets, and one "album" is enough since there's one of them in every copy. Something tells me you are enraged at things only because you hardly understand them.

>Duude why there's 48 people, I dun understand LOL
This one is a classic. Did the edgy article you are repeating from memory leave out how the theater shows work?

You guys just need to relax

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>>16822849
>idols today are a result of asking fans about what they like, this is somehow bad
>the only issue is you end up with this at the end.
>the only issue
are you pretending that I said that asking what your fans like is some how inheretly bad thing? are you pretending that I didn't pinpoint the one issue I had with it? do you know how to read

>fan opinion doesn't matter, these agencies don't run surveys before making these groups and they don't collect fan opinions while they are active, either
that is just a straight up lie. not only do they keep all surveys and use them to make new idol groups but they also rate the girls like shonen jump and get rid of girls that rank too low.

>idol and artists are making themselves more relatable to the masses and looking more down-to-earth
>So it's a trend that involves the whole music to international level
you mean like kanye west? real down to earth
you mean like beyonce? yeah totally down to earth
you mean like lady gaga? wow man such a regular woman
you mean like rhianna or nicki minaj or jayz or mariah carey or the pussycat dolls

the most popular western acts are all ebin rebels or people who legit thing they're royalty you are talking shit

>Holy non-sequitur, Batman
>it's a logical falacy so it's wrong
just because it doesn't follow a line of reason doesn't make it wrong, it makes it a bad argument.
example

>puppies are cute
>cute things are good
>therefore kittens are cute

the logic doesn't follow and yet it's still correct

>also

they clearly do shout over each other go watch them and if you're a fan you're willfully lying which is pathetic

>also
between meet and greets and constructing a personality just to attract men pretty much qualifies them a lot more for going on to becoming a a hostess than it does for a solo career.
no one can deny that. fuck ex akb members have gone into porn plenty of times and some even protitution. bravo akb.

>comparing a musical group to a business
>hello goldstien
music is meant to be art. not all art can be enjoyed by everyone and I understand that. music should be about expression first and money second. thats why bands with static members that carry sway are always 1000x better. the members keep the business men straight and remind them that they're trying to make good music first and money second. akb litrually has NO ONE reminding anyone of this because akb will never and has never been about making good music.


to sum it up. do I hate idol music? yes
do I think everyone should hate idol music? no
do I think idol music is ruining the music industry? no there are many things killing it but the idol industry has grown larger than any other genre and it's the one genre that doesn't give a shit how good their music sounds as long as it sells. and japan is the best place on earth to sell shitty music and have people buy it anyway.

idol music is only half of whats killing music. the only reason I bring it up is to remind people not to fund it. not not to like it.

if you just want to look at cute girls just follow a bunch of instagram whores.

>>16822922
>music is meant to be art.
>music should be about expression first and money second
Music has always been money first, dipshit.

>>16822922
If your favorite artist was somewhat "killed" by idol group, then I'm sorry but it clearly wasn't worthy of existing.
Also popular music is meant to be a business, if you want to life off it as opposed to be just a Sunday hobby. History has taught us that "artists" die poor, crazy, alone or any combination of it. If they don't want to, they must necessarily bow down to some patron, be it the Pope or the King or the Jews.

Remove 3D

>>16822922
>plenty of times
There's been like 3 members out of 100s who have done JAV.

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>>16822946
are you ACTUALLY jewish or are you just saying this in hopes that i'll conceed and forget that human history didn't began in the 60's?

are you pretending there aren't tens of thousands of stories of bands and artists arguing with their management trying to push and album through or to scrap a song because it the music is what is importent not the money.

are you also going to say that movies are all about making money and no directors make passion pieces?

are you pretending people who only just get by with music don't exist?
are you pretending that people who have to work in retail for a living yet still produce music because thats what drives them don't exist?

stop being so deluded and just go nut to some twitter sluts.

>>16822955
now list 3 non idol singers that have went into jav

>Muh music is so full of passion

>>>/mu/

>>16822983
Ask them >>/16816944/

How do I get into idols?

>>16822922
Please don't talk shit about western music when you clearly know nothing about it.

>>16822983
It won't change the fact that you were wrong. 3 girls doing JAV is not "plenty of members".

>>16822980
>human history didn't began in the 60's
I remember how almost all classical musicians from the 1700s until at least the 1900s were all dirt poor and wrote music on commission or for courts because they were being PAID to do so.

>are you pretending there aren't tens of thousands of stories of bands and artists arguing with their management trying to push and album through or to scrap a song because it the music is what is important not the money.
When things aren't the norm they tend to get spread around faster. For everyone one story where the group wanted to do the music like X and thus clashed with the management who wanted to do it Y, there are 10 more stories where people just went with what sells. You won't hear about the latter because it's not as good of a story as the former.

>are you also going to say that movies are all about making money
Yes, 99.9% of major filmmakers and studios MAKE a movie because they expect, or at least want, a profit.
>and no directors make passion pieces
The amount of "passion pieces" are outnumbered ten-fold by committee and corporate designed films. You just hear about the passion pieces more because they're not the norm, and stand out more. And don't act like "passion pieces" are always definitely good. Most of them are shit because most people doing something out of passion aren't good at it.

>are you pretending people who only just get by with music don't exist?
What? You're literally arguing what I'm saying - people make music because they can make money off it, and the easiest way to do it is to do what sells. If you make a living off music, the harder and less likely it is for you to make passion pieces of """art""", because that rarely sells.

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>>16822991
he thinks I want to talk about music all day long.
m80 I'm here for the cute girls.
but I like my cute girls like I like my music. not shit.

I tend to find myself more draw towards idol seiyuu because, comparatively, there is a bigger emphasis on the technical aspect of their jobs.
Even the worst of the bunch have a modicum of talent.
Hard for me to care about a girl if she is "just" cute looking or has some dumb gimmick associated to her.
But I understand the role of the modern/c hika idol for the general populace. It's mostly about accessibility.(mind you, I don't know much about super groups like AKB nor do I care for them)

I want to marry and start a family with a retired idol. I'd never cheat on her.

>>16823223
you're a good boy

>>16823229

Thank you.

>>16823170
I like seiyuu idols too, but i wish they could get better choreos.

>>16822670
not true by the way

iv been on jp for a long time and i know plenty of other idol fags that browse jp

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This is like one of the worst threads I've ever read.

What am I supposed to listen to if I like idol music but don't like the idol industry?

>>16827391
idol music.
just don't give them money.

>>16827391
Listen to anime idols, like a little faggot.

>>16827391
What kind of retarded hipsterism is this? Just pirate it if you care so much.

Well... That's an industry.
It's kind of a given that idols and likes are part of a merciless structure aimed at making profit over anything. Even more so than others.
Idols are "products" too, that's what makes them idols and not just "singers" or "artists".

I'll take Kpop as an example since I know more about it than Jpop, but while some still manage to make their creativity speak through the layers of marketing (cf Rap Monster who said in awakening that he was an idol now but that it was the cost to make his stuff).
But also cases like the SM where they're treated like shit.
Also they're given a role, which is their new public personality etc...

Idols are mostly about appearance and "music consumption", in the end it's an industry in which the artists become products and thus follow what the marketing team says.

I have no doubt that most of them actually are doing their best to come out on top and to share their art to the world by USING the idol industry.


And if I'm wrong about something, no need to get pissed. Just tell me where I'm wrong. I'd like to learn more about Jpop idols myself.

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>>16827867
mostly true but this is what Im protesting
one thing where kpop and jpop differ is the girls. kpop girls all look the same but are all really attractive.
Jpop girls usually look vastly different yet all generic and reasonably attractive like 7-8/10 sometimes but rarely a 9/10 because as I said people like idols they can picture themselves with.

sometimes idols go solo or form a sister group and they get control over their music but most times they just vanish never to be seen again. if you said a non idol was an idol they would get offended. thats a pretty telling sign on it's own.