Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1790

Does the order in which I learn hirigana and katakana matter? I wanna go with katakana first since I already know English.

>>16644265
Learn hiragana first, you'll see it way more than you'll see katakana. Also I'm not sure why knowing English matters, katakana has nothing to do with English other than it being used to write loan words.

>>16644277
Anyone knows the first kanji here?

>>16644281
Did you reply to the wrong post?

>>16644289
Excuse me?

Does doing anki or heisigs negate the need to do the other?

>>16644307
What does kanji have to do with >>16644277, I was talking about hiragana and katakana.

>>16644139
What I don't like about Heisig is that the order the Kanji appear in is a bit arbitrary so some of the most common Kanji upon which you will stumble upon plenty in core won't appear in Heisig until you are a thousand Kanji in.

>>16644311
They are best used in conjunction (if you really want to use Heisig). I know there are decks which already have the stories in their notes but Heisig also introduces a lot of components which are not Kanji by themselves.

>>16644281
Are all kanji numbered?

>>16644328
I'm not sure what you mean by numbered for sure, but if you mean in Heisig then yes every kanji has a number associated with it but if you mean in general no there's no standard numbering of kanji.

General Question: Would writing coherent text be a good memory aid?

>>16644328
Yes, they form a partially ordered set.

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>珈琲

mfw they actually use this over コーヒー in instruction manuals.

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>>16644497
2/2

If you can read this you'll pass N1

>>16644497
Yeah, I see that a lot in pictures of coffee shops and such. Same with 倶楽部.

>>16644497
It's fairly common, it's also spelled that way in Chinese.

Scrub here, why is the meaning of some radicals in the Kangxi deck completely different from what you find online? 欠 for instance is "owe, lack" according to a quick Wikipedia search, but "person doing something" according to the deck.

>>16644681
Is DJT on the left? I have never ever heard anyone say you should learn Kanji isolated and only move on to vocabulary after you're done. The most common advice I hear here is do Kanji study and vocabulary simultaneously which seems to be a nice middle ground and the actual most efficient way.

>>16644715
It's a 4 year old image.

>>16644715
It's mostly making fun of RTKfags.

>>16644714
If you're using the Heisig deck, this is because Heisig does not teach you the useage of the Kanji, but some stupid mnemonic that's supposed to help you remember them when they're used as radicals. I do believe in the case of 欠, Heisig actually does tell you it can be used as "lack" or "yawn" as well, but for some Kanji like 旦, he gives literally the opposite of the actual meaning (i.e. calling 旦 "nightbreak" when it actually means "daybreak").

>>16644912
This is why you just learn vocab and ignore kanji individually. You will eventually learn the recurring ones by seeing them in multiple words, and the ones that don't you don't need to know individually.

>>16644938
Eh, I do both personally. It can help having mnemonics for learning individual Kanji, at least as a stepping stone for getting to that point where you just recognize them on sight. The downside is, of course, since Heisig does this so detached from the actual meaning of the radicals, I have to go through his deck and "correct" all the mnemonics he gives (since I haven't found anyone who's done the same but with the actual meanings).

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>>16644912
You think nightbreak means the start of the night but it means the sun coming up just like daybreak. You are supposed to imagine it as the sun breaking through the night and see the sun coming up on the horizon 旦, therefore nightbreak. That said I am not an advocate of Heisig but you seem to be doing something wrong if you didn't even get that right.

>>16644938
Swinging to the other extreme is nonsense as well, it's like trying to grasp the rules of grammar by reading Japanese sentences until you understand them instead of just opening up a grammar guide that tells you how grammar works. It's inefficient and advice that is hardly beneficial to anyone.

>>16644961
If you have so much trouble with Heisig why don't you switch to something else? I am working through the Kodansha course. I think the newest edition is from 2011 or something, so it is much more recent that Heisig and the meanings do seem accurate. Beyond that he gives you vocabulary to memorize (marked by a circle). If you get through the course you should know about 2300 Kanji, all their main readings and a couple thousand words. It has helped me greatly and it seems the most efficient way if you want to get a grasp on the reading while still learning vocabulary.

>>16644912
I am not using Heisig, I'm using this (https://mega.nz/#!IAVVlBab!qQazRubQ3VZ_WjjLS4CclxYQF-6QGRtnmwd_zGBZpIo) deck of radicals only, also from the CoR. Most of the meanings match the ones you find everywhere else, so I don't think it's mnemonics, but there's these few weird exceptions.

>>16644714
The anon who made it changed some of the meanings to be more etymologically accurate. 欠 was originally someone opening their mouth and moving their body.

>>16645144
I see, thanks, although I have to wonder if the "common" meaning wouldn't be more useful in terms of practical usage. I'll probably edit the cards to have both.

>>16645170
"lack" is basically only useful for the kanji itself (欠ける, etc.). A lot of the kanji that contain it have more to do with someone moving/opening their mouth.

吹 blow
炊 cook
飲 drink
歌 sing
諮 consult

>>16645187
The left radical helps you with the meaning way more than the right radical does. Wouldn't be surprised if the right radical was just the pronunciation part for Chinese.

>>16645187
They seem to work ok for me with lack
吹 blow blowing leaves a lack of air in your mouth
炊 cook you can't cook with a lack of fire
飲 drink when you lack food you drink to make up for it
歌 sing I knew this before RTK so I just remembered it as sing
諮 consult I used the right as next so I think of it like a second opinion

>>16645226
Normally both parts bestow meaning even in a phonetic-semantic pair

>>16644714
The short version is that every english radical system is essentially made up. The lists you find on the internet are based on translated dictionaries. The kangxi radicals deck tries to undo some of the damage that this translation does when comparing radicals to their etymology.

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Hey DJT I need your help.

What would you do?
You are reading and encounter a word that you want to mine, but it's not only one word it also has a particle (word+ni for example) or even a partice + another word attached (word+de+word)?

Let's take an example you find in core as well 一緒に, why did they put the に in there as well does the meaning differ from 一緒 alone?
I noticed sometimes the word changes it's meaning slightly due to it's added particle BUT it's not a different word and you should be able to understand the change if you ever read a grammar guide.

What if you can mine a little phrase, do you mine the whole phrase or only the words you don't know?

For example 一筋縄では行かない instead of memorizing everything wouldn't it be better to understand its parts?

Like 一筋縄(ordinary means) では(by) 行かない(can't do) for example.

>>16645259
Common word-particle pairs usually have a different meaning than the word on its own. Not as in different because the particle is added, but different because sheer frequency has caused it to take on a new nuance. Like how we got かわいい vs かわいそう.

Mine it now and suspend it later if you don't like it.

>>16645259
You want to learn both, the words and the phrase. With that in mind I trust you to do your own decisions.

>>16645234
In most cases they are more or less random, even if you can create a story for it to attempt to connect them, the origin is so irrelevant to Japanese.

>>16645259
I mine whatever Rikaisama has an entry for.

>>16645302
>even if you can create a story for it to attempt to connect them, the origin is so irrelevant to Japanese.
Japanese makes phonetic associations irrelevant, not semantic associations. You can clearly see with 飲 that the """phonetic""" part is still obviously relevant to japanese if you know what the component actually meant at the time that it was added to the character.

>>16645259
If I mine a whole phrase or very large compound word, then when reviewing it my memory will tend to focus only on the characteristics necessary for identifying the whole, and I often won't be able to remember the parts when they appear alone. If this happens to you too then it's probably best to mine the smallest element that you expect to be called on to remember first, and then if the phrase doesn't make sense after having learnt the parts, mine that as well.

>>16645233
>吹 blow blowing leaves a lack of air in your mouth
欠 literally means "blow" here
>炊 cook you can't cook with a lack of fire
That's retarded.
>飲 drink when you lack food you drink to make up for it
That's even more retarded.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%A3%B2#Glyph_origin
>歌 sing I knew this before RTK so I just remembered it as sing
So it didn't work?
>諮 consult I used the right as next so I think of it like a second opinion
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%AC%A1#Glyph_origin

>>16645328
Mnemonics are inherently retarded to anyone that wasn't the one that made them and so what if they are? They're the ones that I made and they work for me. Also I'm not sure why you're linking to the origin of it, I don't care about the origin I'm just looking for a way to produce the kanji from the keyword and I accomplished that goal.

>So it didn't work?
It's not that it didn't work I already knew the meaning of that kanji so I didn't waste the time thinking up a mnemonic to associate it with.

>>16645346
>Mnemonics are inherently retarded to anyone that wasn't the one that made them
It's time to stop posting.

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Am I doing something wrong?

>>16645418
Disable "suppress repetition" and enable "enable global filter" then restart ITHVNR and never touch the options again or it'll break again.

>>16645399
He's right though. You make mnemonics using an association that comes naturally to you, so for others it usually seems weird.

>>16645425
The ideal mnemonic is one that comes from you, but saying that shared mnemonics are inherently retarded is just wrong on every level.

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>>16645422
(´・ω・｀)

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>>16645431
Restart everything over and over again 'till it works

>>16645428
What do you mean by shared mnemonics? I made the mnemonics up myself, just because I took the different parts that were given to me and put them together doesn't mean its a "shared" mnemonic I still came up with it.

>>16645428
It's not wrong on every level, just an incorrect use of the word "inherently". Just like when you incorrectly used the phrase "wrong on every level" just now.

>>16645446
It's "wrong on every level" because there's nothing retarded about shared mnemonics at all. Yes, I'm well aware that "inherently" was just an intensifier there.

おはようおにいちゃん

さんがつからおはよう

>>16645453
Maybe you misunderstood my use of the word mnemonic, I didn't mean mnemonics as a concept or any thing like that but that oftentimes individual mnemonics made by someone appear to another person as being retarded.

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The answer is c. Can someone explain why it's not a? I would have thought it would be a and basically mean "regardless of whether the ruling party or opposition wins, I'm interested in the outcome of the election." Is it a typo in the answer booklet or am I missing something?

>>16645785
Regardless of whether you're part of this or that party, I want you to give your best in the campaign.
a doesn't make sense because of the は I believe, which includes the stuff before the わたし. "Whether or not I'm part of this or that party, I'm interested in the results" doesn't really make much sense does it

>>16645785
"勝つのが与党であれ野党であれ" だったら
aでも cでも しぜんに きこえるよ

>>16645785
Which level is this?
Anyway, I think the explanation is that c indicates something that applies to both 与党 and 野党 ("be it or y", "regardless"), whereas a concerns yourself and not the parties.

>>16645830
After thinking it over I see how c works. I do wonder if a might possibly also be right like >>16645846 said though.

>>16645850
N1 4課

>>16645868
Yes a is possible like he says.

Often you have to find the best answer, rather than the right one. a is pretty clonky without any extra information like in his answer, but it's not straight fucked like b.

>>16645010
Fringe, is that you?

>>16645431
The game I'm playing right now does that if Auto supress is disabled. If I enable it, it goes to two characters like >>16645418 for a few lines, and then fixes itself without any further changes.

I'm not using the global filter option

>>16645868
a doesn't make too much sense though, the one who wins the election is going to be considered the ruling party, he's talking about the sides not about himself.

>>16645889
Yes.

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>>16645889
Sorry I'm new to /jp/ , who is Fringe?

>>16645431
Select a different hook.

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What kanji is the question mark?
感染？数急増

>>16644222

Oh wow I actually recognize that opaque text in the OP pic. ...I've probably been here too long.

>>16646167
者

>>16646171
That's a weird looking 者. Thanks anon.

>>16646150
Your writing style just reminded of someone on another imageboard, nevermind.

I'm having some issues figuring out the very last sentence here. The first two are here for context, I think I got them right though my translations aren't very good imo.

薄暗さに馴染んだ目が、一瞬、外の輝きに眩んでしまった。

My eyes had become used to the dimness; after only a moment I became dizzy from the splendor of the outside.
徐々に目が慣れてくる。眼前にはライトアップされた摩天楼。その麓には７色のネオンが輝いていた。

My eyes gradually adjusted. Immediately in front of them was the illumination created by a skyscraper. The base gleamed with 7 seven neon colors.

瞳が街明かりに慣れてくると、その輝きの裏に紛れ隠されていたものが見えてくる。*

My pupils grew familiar with the city's lights, this brilliance of the hidden side concealed complications as I looked for hidden people.

>>16645785
ｃしかない

なんでかというと、ａｂはサイコだから

>>16646281
>その輝きの裏に紛れ隠されていたものが見えてくる。
Something that was hidden became visible.

>>16646281
As my eyes get used to the city lights, the things hidden behind the dazzling brilliance start appearing

>>16646281
"As my pupils adjusted to the city lights, the things which had blended into background of that brilliance became visible."

Your translation ignores the と in the first clause, renders その輝きの裏に紛れ隠されていた as active instead of passive, and does the same for 見えてくる

>>16646351
Thanks, I felt like I was missing something obvious but I just couldn't see it for some reason.

>>16644328
They are sometimes grouped by stroke count, and can be grouped by radicals, which are basically simpler kanji that are used in more complex kanji. However, no Japanese would recognize any kanji as, say "#528."

>>16646457
That's because kanji #528 is a hard one, unlike kanji #529.

>>16646465
Kanji #529 is for fucking casuals, kanji #530 is for true patricians.

あたし？９号だよ

ゆびわほしいな

>>16646476
Kanji #9 (人) is my favourite

>>16646488
Mine is 攣

あえてとおくへ

らくしようとおもったら

かんたんだからね

　にほんのことわざ

わたしには知る術もない。
Is 術 here supposed to be じゅつ or すべ？

>>16644520
よー読めない。。。

>>16646598
すで

>>16646598
jutsu you know just like naruto

>>16646598
learn to use J-J dictionaries

スカートをめくったら何が見えるの

>>16646726
ちんこ

New to reading here, just finished a grammar guide and learning vocab alongside this.

Should I attempt to completely understand every sentence I come across?

How do you check your understanding when starting out, do you guys look at translations or is that a bad idea?

>>16646831
>Should I attempt to completely understand every sentence I come across?
You won't even if you try.

At most, try hard enough that you've exhausted what you know, then move on.

Language acquisition comes from seeing things so often that you psychically realize what they mean. You have to consume a LOT. Don't get stuck.

>>16646831
>How do you check your understanding when starting out, do you guys look at translations or is that a bad idea?
The translation is never meant for a language-learner. It's a very bad idea.

You can read a translation to make sure that you understand the general gist of the story, but if you can't understand the gist of the story, you're reading something that's too hard for you.

>>16646831
I look at translations sometimes and it is helpful, but I find that doing it too much ruins the enjoyment of reading. The translations can be inaccurate or even completely wrong, so you have to keep that in mind when using them.

>折節の移り変わるこそ、物事にあはれなれ
So if I'm understanding this correctly, it's "Because the seasons change, one can appreciate everything"?
あはれなれ seems to be one of those words that simply can't really be translated similar to もののあわれ

Why is djt on /jp/? This board is about otaku culture, not Japan. Djt makes more sense on /a/.

>>16647384
This thread isn't about japan, it's about the language of otaku media, which happens to be japanese.

>>16647384
bad threads need to go to the bad board

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見え透いたごまかし

why is it in past form.

"In the dictionary states 子供だまし as [1. tricking kids], but fundamentally its [2. a obvious trick that seems like it would fool kids] , adults are the ones who get tricked. I wont give examples here but, there are many things that you learn by getting tricked like I did.

>>16647422
どうするですか？！

>>16647422
the way you understand tenses in english doesnt work the same in japanese

>>16647422
Note that the simple past tense is sometimes used for retrospective events like "have become", rather than always being a literal past tense. The distinction between the two is meaningful sometimes.

I'm not going to have steady access to the internet for a number of months, what's a good book(s) to purchase before my internet drought begins? Complete beginner.

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>>16647477

>>16647477
Will you have access to a computer/laptop?

>>16647477
A dictionary for one.

>>16647487
Computer yes, internet no

>>16647494
Download the PDF version of tae kim. Download Tagaini Jisho. Download ITHVNR, rikai-sama, a clipboard grabber, some VNs, some raw manga with furigana (Zettai Reiiki is incredibly simple and highly recommended for absolute beginners that don't have any guidance), anki, and whatever anki decks you find mildly interesting (ones in the CoR in the OP are usually better than ones on ankiweb)

>>16647477
Get a bunch of references like DOJG and All About Particles. As for vocabulary, download some offline OCR software and have a few Anki decks such as Core 2k. (6k and 10k suck unless you'll be reading newspapers) Try to find a bunch of easy-to-read mangas, too.

>>16647519
>All About Particles
Is this for beginners? Or is it actually good? Never heard of it, but might download it.

>>16647494
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/grammar_guide.pdf mid quality grammar guide oriented for beginners
http://www.tagaini.net/download offline dictionary
https://apps.ankiweb.net/ and https://djtguide.neocities.org/assets/res/anki_settings.png (actually save the image to your hard drive)
http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forum/hentai-lair/hentai-game-discussion/tools-and-tutorials/411001-ithvnr-ith-with-the-vnr-engine?p=5731129#post5731129 texthooker for VNs etc (yes it's legit)
http://capture2text.sourceforge.net/ OCR
https://sourceforge.net/projects/rikaisama/files/Rikaisama_v22.9.3/ mouseover dictionary for firefox
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/ firefox developer edition (note that both/either normal firefox and the multiprocess setting cause problems for rikai-sama)
https://mega.nz/#F!fV4mUBiC!RQZh2p90oRHoaKHuuRVq8w zettai reiiki

https://mega.nz/#!xQkFXI6a!d-9Sf4ESx85eWwPpR5NH46HiaNkhjkmqaGJx53ZVP0I kana
https://mega.nz/#!IAVVlBab!qQazRubQ3VZ_WjjLS4CclxYQF-6QGRtnmwd_zGBZpIo radicals (optional)
https://mega.nz/#!QIQywAAZ!g6wRM6KvDVmLxq7X5xLrvaw7HZGyYULUkT_YDtQdgfU or https://mega.nz/#!iIk0BKbY!3VAygAPWyxoD1oZmyIe8m_lNNBnuz9YkjHDl_dEho_A vocabulary
https://mega.nz/#!JcZSnZQQ!2jjZGlbsfs1HUJGS5nZUF6HIzKLeOPoA9KhHrszqXt4 particles (optional, redundant if you use anon5k)

>>16647486
ＷＣ

奪われ続けるならもう狂ってしまいそう

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>>16647477
Download some of these

what are your guys' favorite podcasts? I'm trying to work on listening while at work. So far I'm listening to NHK news. You guys have any other suggestions?

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>>16647605

>>16647665
Incidentally I've read 6 of the VNs you crossed out

>>16647672
You have good taste then probably

>>16647672
Yeah some of the VNs I crossed out are good intermediate material.

おにいちゃん

おさかなやいて

やきざかなたべたい

たーべーたーいー

>>16647587
セカンドインパクト発動しないように気をつけろよ

>>16647665
Cross these out too: https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/137917512/#137930400

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>>16647695
You know it's easy to cross out VNs but what's hard is making good suggestions. Every chart is going to have stuff some people find difficult, like this one has Daitoshokan which is crossed out there.

>>16647709
Daitoshokan is legitimately hard and the chart you just posted shouldn't have it. The chart you just posted is a chart of good VNs that are accessible, not ones that are easy to read regardless of their writing quality.

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>>16647695

>>16647713
I would call the yuzusoft games good and acceptable. Their writing is really bad in the storytelling sense.

>>16647723
good and accessible*

>>16647665
Both Daitoshokan and Himawari are easier than Fureraba, which is still easy enough for a beginner.

>>16647734
Himawari is marked because it's not "relatively" easy to read, not because it's hard.
>Fureraba, which is still easy enough for a beginner
Your definition of "beginner" is wrong.

>>16647695
時間が早いな

今年のワルフザケも楽しみにしてるぜ

>>16647751
興味もない

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while we're at charts

>>16647734
Daito has magic libraries and Himawari rockets and viruses, while Fureraba is just about a normal romance between high schoolers.

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>>16647778

Is that Hatsukoi 1/1 VN good? I saw some plebs crying about translations in another thread

>>16647718
I'm not finding baldr sky to be too terribly difficult, and it's my first real VN. I was a bit confused early on about the setting because it flashes from a dream into cyber space, but that seemed intentional in the design.

>>16647778
朱音の改良された顔以外でリライトは神ゲームじゃありませんぞ

>昨年は地震が多い年でした

Why is it necessary to specify 年 a second time?

>>16647838
It makes 多い a comparison to other years rather than an abstract thing

>>16647838
頭痛が痛い

>>16647846
やめろ

Does anyone have the scoring document for the Shin Kanzen Master N2 grammar pdf? I have the pdf of the workbook itself from the CoR but with no answers to the questions it is not super useful.

僕はセックスについては数冊エロ同人誌を読んだだけなのでそれほどわかっているわけではありませんがそんなに楽しいことだと思うか

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How many Vietnamese cave engravings can DJT write?

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I'm stuck halfway through Tae Kim because I need to practice grammar to retain it, but if I go try and read something 99% of the time it has grammar I haven't learned yet, putting me back at square one. What should I do?

>>16647954
What answer do you even expect? Did you ever try using your brain?

>>16647960
No, I didn't.

Finish Tae Kim, then read. Refer back to Tae Kim (or preferably Visualizing Japanese Grammar, Imabi and DoJG) when encountering something you don't remember.

>>16647963
You should do that next time you consider making such a moronic post.

>>16647954
Read more. Either tae kim or japanese. Doesn't matter. Just keep learning.

>>16647954
just watch more anime and dont let the people calling you names get you down as they also have low nihongo mmr

I'd like some opinions on how we're supposed to translate "fuck" into Japanese. As you know, there's no direct translation and in Japanese it's a matter of context and intent.
I watched "The Departed" with a fansub and there's an overuse of くそ and くそたれ acting as direct translations, as well as やろう（め） which I think is quite appropriate, yet it feels like it's very hard to encapsulate the qualities which "fuck" gives to a sentence in English.

>>16647830
ロミオ様への侮辱は許せんぞ

>>16648005
Also, how do we decide whether to give a literal translation or a figurative one? It feels like Scorsese's dialogue is lost in figurative translations, but these figurative translations are easier to read when they're shortened and interpreted.

Here's an example:
Are you soft? The next time I tell you to dump a body in the marshes, put it in the fuckin' marshes, not where some guy from John Hancock goes every Thursday to get a blowjob!

The sub is like this:
「おまえは、バカか、フィッツ」
「オレが、死体を沼に沈めて来いって
いったなら．．．」
「．．．お前は、その通りにすりゃいいんだ」
「よりによって、毎週木曜に
教会に通うようなヤツらが．．．」
「．．．通る場所に置いてくるなんて」

>>16648006
ロミオマストダイがわたしの一番好きな映画ですよ

>>16648018
人はそれぞれ違うんだよ

それは翻訳者の一存で翻訳できるので特に問題は生じないと思う

>>16648018
>>16648005
and from "Edge of Tomorrow"
FORD: It's gonna be my
20th battle tomorrow.
- You haven't been in 20 battles, mate.
- I have too.
"You're gonna dump your load the second we hit the beach."
だから海岸に降りるような事になっちまったんだ

When he says "dump your load", the implication is that he'll chicken out as soon as they land on the beach. To keep it faithful to the original dialogue I was thinking 「気取るんじゃねぞ。お前は海岸に降りるとすぐにズボンにだすぜ。」

>>16648057
ズボンにだす？爆笑

今日も一日ズボンにだすぞい

>>16648080
スボンせんたくするみにもなってね

きたないよ

>>16648080
でも言いたいのを分かっているだろう？
解釈は翻訳者次第にもかかわらず、翻訳者の役目は原稿を忠実な翻訳をすべきだ。
そうしないと意味が変わる・・

The next line:
Why don't you get yourselves a cup of shut-the-hell-up?
喋ってないでイャホンでも口に突っ込んどきな

How do we even

>>16648120
I'm back and I've given it some thought. This expression/meme is lampooning the textbook "would you like some tea?" except it has a twist at the end (the cup of stfu).
Likewise, we could start off with a polite offer of telling someone to be quiet and then add the twist like so:
お静かにしていただけませんか、くず野郎どもめ

>>16648245
maybe you could just use an actual snappy way of telling someone to pipe down like normal people do except in japanese

Do you know kanji better than a superhuman artificial intelligence?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO84fleR5x8

>かける
>written in kana

Do Japanese like to use かける as substitute to any verb? This verb is fucking weird. What are the mainly used meanings for かける？

>>16648277
Forget about it. That's one of the verbs for which you just need to read a lot to get an intuitive understanding. The usual JMdict (Jisho) definitions can give you a hint but it has no real equivalent in English.

>>16647660
そこまでいうか is alright

File: Low Quality VN Rec Chart.png (2MB, 1080x1920px) Image search: [Google]

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>>16648198
add more info

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>>16648198
Here I turned it into a real rec chart

>>16648373
Y-you monster

>>16648375
それは

ほめてるの？

けなしてるの？

>>16648433
普通に重く悪い言葉けどこの時は冗談だ

>>16648443
あたしたちにはよくわからないよ

you bastard

こっちはほめてるの？

けなしてるの？

A friend/TLer for my manga group is helping me learn Japanese and he recommended I read Heisig's Remembering the Kanji. Assuming I'm on the right path what should I do once I've read most/all of it?

>>16648459
Read the guide, idiot.

>>16648461
悪い

>>16648457
"you bastard" is an insult, but isn't dehumanizing
"you monster" is less obscene, but more dehumanizing
A robber is a bastard
A rapist is a monster

>>16644277
Did you learn to write the characters while you're studying?
I mean, I'm now finished memorizing hiragana but I'm wondering if I should learn how to write them next or move onto katakana.

>>16648477
かんぜんにわからないことがわかるよ

>>16648489
If by characters you mean kanji, definitely learn katakana first. Kanji are something you'll spend the rest of your Japanese career dealing with and continuing to learn and katakana takes a couple hours at most to learn.

Sorry if this is asked every thread or so. Like probably most of you, I've acquired quite a decent level of comprehension (although there is still a lack of vocabulary) but I'm absolute shit at written production. How do you remember how to write all these nightmares? Doing stuff like RTK? I guess that stroke order is necessary? Do you have any good ressource/advice?

>>16649100
"Decent level of comprehension" is a bit vague, but I wouldn't recommend doing RTK or KKLC or whatever as a non-beginner. You could try making an Anki deck with the kanji on the front and the stroke order diagram on the back (there's a stroke order font that you can download at http://nihilist.org.uk/ so this should be pretty easy).
Or just use jisho whenever you don't know how to write a kanji and they'll stick sooner or later.

>>16649100
Most people here don't bother with writing but I assume it's just a case of writing moonrunes over and over until you learn them all

>>16649100
If you learn the radicals you should have an easier time reconstructing the character, but you still just have to practice a lot.

>>16649120
>>16649176
>>16649235
Thank you (especially for the link). As expected, excruciating boredom is ahead.

>>16644497
Kanji look a thousand times more elegant than katakana.

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>友達がワインを飲みたがったので昨日買ったのを出した

Why's it 飲みたがった instead of 飲みたかった?

>>16649545
Because it's 飲みたい + がる
https://djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_night.html#%E3%8A%A6%E3%81%8C%E3%82%8B

>>16649545
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/signs.html

>>16649607
>>16649614
All right, cheers.

How many hours a day do you guys study for?

>>16649732
Depends on what you mean by "study".

>>16649732
If VNs, anime and manga count as studying, then like 2-12 hours depending on the day. Otherwise just 15-20 minutes of Anki.

>>16649743
Manga obviously doesn't. Please subtract that time.

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Fucking which?

>>16650026
Choose the one you like the most.

>>16650026
はん seems to be fairly common.

>>16650026
Uchida Madala

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>>16644311
I've just started studying (one week in atm) and using them together really helps. My ritual is studying 25-30 kanji along with their explanations from the Heisig pdf and then work them up in Anki until I can remember them fairly well. I'm only at 170 kanji right now, though I'm certain I won't stop unless I finish the 2.2k grid in pic related.

This website is good if you want to check pitch accent.

http://www.gavo.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp

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頑張ってね、アノンきゅん！

>>16650525
左は僕

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>>16648363

What YouTube channels do you guys watch? I read the guide but i'm fairly new to the Japanese language and they are out of my league in terms of understanding them.

I remember seeing a series of Japanese education videos where they play out a short episode with different topics in each. For example I saw the first episode and there was a girl on her first day of school where she had to introduce herself and they used a lot of different "greetings".
It was on a Japanese website and you could choose subtitles if you wanted romaji, kana or kanji. Does any one know the website i'm talking about?

>>16650739
Check out nihongonomori, they have some decent basic grammar lessons. Also, I never cared for him, but a lot of people here like Namasensei I guess.

>>16650739
https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/

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>>16650668
Flyable Heart isn't decent either, but good image otherwise.
Really, it bugs me that people recommend it all the time over the alternative version with the same MC from the same company, which is massively higher quality.

>>16650781
You don't want to read KimiNago without having read Mayuri's route in Flyable Heart first though, it's a much better experience if you've seen it from MC's perspective first.

>>16650781
I'd put flyable heart squarely on the borderline obviously.

You're right about the other thing but so is the guy that already responded to you.

Do lolige have easy to read text?

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>>16650803
Yes

>>16650803
I finished Natsukumo Yururu as my fifth VN recently and it was a breeze throughout.

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I'm with this anon >>16650803

Can anyone recommend easy lolige?
It would probably read twice as much if I had a good lolige.

I'm currently in my second year of Japanese at uni, get my year abroad there next year. Excited.

>>16651001
I can recommend you easy lolige but they're going to be awful VNs.

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>>16651001
This one's good.

>>16651001
Any VN by Tanuki Soft.

Have fun.

っていうかロリコンは病気なんでしょう

>>16651009
>major in japanese
Why do people do this?

>>16651152
To move there for work senpai. Good opportunities at my university for employment afterwards.

What are some text-heavy games with simple Japanese (no kanji, only hiragana+katana)

Like, the Pokemon games?

>>16651227
It would be much easier to read something with kanji + furigana. Kana only is hard.

>>16651227
Earthbound is pretty easy, it has got almost no kanji and the sentences are pretty short.

>>16651227
I use the Pokémon games personally, but you need to more aware of context if there's no kanji and it becomes a little less useful for real life situations, but it all helps grammar and vocabulary.

>>16651227
First of all, kana-only doesn't mean it's easier to read. The lack of kanji often makes text harder to parse depending on average sentence length. As >>16651243 says, normal text with furigana is easier to read and also helps with learning kanji.

To answer your question, anything less powerful than a SFC can only display a limited amount of kanji due to hardware limitations, and games aimed at children usually have simple text with relatively few kanji.

>>16651369
I'm JUST starting Japanese, and I still have a bit of trouble reading hiragana and katakana. Like, I know the kana already, it's just that it takes me a while to recall them when reading something. That's why I just want to play something so I can read them faster.

>>16651374
Yeah that's a bad idea.

>>16651374
>I know the kana already, it's just that it takes me a while to recall them when reading something
Contradiction innit?

>>16651374
I figured as much, but just because you can read kana doesn't mean you can actually read Japanese written in kana. You won't get very far without learning basic grammar, even with the simplest stuff.

>>16650810
I don't mind learning about Buddhism this way.

How would i say "another day of work"
仕事が別の日？　

>>16651866
仕事日 exists.

>>16651866
ウェージカックの一日

>>16651880
Alright, so would 別の仕事日be okay?
>>16651892
lmao

>>16651945
chances are thats not the appropriate way to convey what you want to say

>>16651001
In addition to the lolige already recommended, which are also great, I'd like to add Shoujo Ramune.

>>16651945
別 means "(not this one but) another", indicating it's different from something else.

Maybe you want to use また?

Did DJT get moved here permanently from /a/? Didn't see one up over there.

>>16652525
How long have you been gone?

>>16652532

Uehh.. A couple months since I last checked in on djt, I guess? Hard to remember.

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So what's the context here?

>>16652674
日に酔って i think

>>16652674
You have all the context. What do you want to know?

Reminder that nukemarine is a hack and you shouldn't trust anything he ever made.

http://forum.koohii.com/thread-14408-post-242511.html#pid242511

>Agreed. Going Kanji to Keyword is passive and generally gives a false sense of comprehension.

>>16652704
>>16652925
Is it just about grammatical problem between によって and たびに, or is there any context-specific part from those choices?

>>16651121
ロリコンは砕けない

>>16652964
手錠も砕けない

>>16652937
>Going Kanji to Keyword is passive and generally gives a false sense of comprehension.

But he is right.

>>16652937
Honestly, that first guy isn't even right. The only way to really understand kanji is to read and get contextual information or hell talk with people.

i would imagine you just use keywords for a while till you dont need them anymore and learn things through seeing/hearing/using them a lot aka becoming fluent

>>16652937
I don't know who this is but he sounds more competent than most of /jp/, and memorizing keywords is retarded.

>>16653049
He's saying that as opposed to going from keyword to kanji, which objectively gives you an even worse sense of false comprehension.

>>16653071
He's not attacking keywords, he's attacking keyword recognition.

>>16653066
Or you could discard the useless added intermediate step and instead just memorize the kun reading or an associated compound while learning actual Japanese vocabulary in the process.

>>16653066
i would imagine you don't need keywords at all to learn things from seeing/hearing/using them a lot

>>16653087
>>16653094
people are different my dudes

i imagine what may be unnecessary to you might pay dividends for someone else in the long run so let people do what they wana do i think

この界隈は戦火を逃れて江戸の名残がそのまま残っている貴重な場所

逃れて

why て

its saying that it escaped fire and resembles old tokyo right

>>16653100
>people are different my dudes
EVERYBODY
LEARNS
LANGUAGE
THE
SAME
WAY

おはようおにいちゃん

マルちゃん正麺って

あのんくんのおくにでうってる？

>>16653094
This. Kids learn this way universally and it works. It should work for adults too even though people don't believe it does. Writing down and memorizing just doesn't feel as good. It's why anki can fail you sometimes as well as memorizing all the kun readings.

>>16653104
even braille?

>>16653101
アメリカ空軍による

国際法違反の

無差別爆撃で

旧東京はすべて灰になった

>>16653111
kids learn that way universally because everything is new

things are different for people who have years and years of developmental foundation in there brains or whatever

>>16653073
Okay, now I see what you mean. I agree that doing keyword->kanji is the better way to do it, but not for his reason.

>>16653134
yes and you can thank them for the modern japanese culture you know now

>>16653134
>無差別爆撃
Wait what, this is a thing? What does it mean exactly though? Indiscriminate bombing? Never heard of that before.

>>16653104
COM
PRE
HEN
SI
BLE
IN
PUT

>>16653114
Yes.

>>16653162
but braille is just a bunch of bumps you run your fingers across so theres no way its the same as a spoken language and so it cant be learned in the same ways

youve dug your own grave

>>16653175
Normally, people who learn braille already know the spoken language. They learn braille the same way sighted people learn normal writing.

There are exceptions where people who are literally blind, deaf, and dumb can be taught to communicate, but even those cases only show that
EVERYBODY
LEARNS
LANGUAGE
THE
SAME
WAY

>>16653179
if everybody learns language the same way why do people have differing levels of competency comprehension and vocabulary

>>16653200
People have different levels of competency, comprehension, and understanding in all things, not just language.

>>16653206
but why

>>16653206
but people dont learn all things the same way just language right

>>16653210
Not an argument.

>>16653210
Not just language, there are other things everyone learns the same way too.

Even if language were the only thing that were learned one way people would still have different capacities in it. Learning method and capacity are different things.

>>16653212
then >>16653206 doesnt apply either

>>16653219
It does, you just didn't post an argument.

Anyone is going to rely on concepts built on their original language when they learn a new language. It would be wasteful not to. Nuance can be learned from immersion

>>16653412
This one page has more new kanji than I've read all today.

>>16653456
How many weeks in?

>>16653468
5 or 6, I think.

may we too find love one day and make the nightmares stop

>>16652941
によって just means "depending on". たびに is more of an "every time (sth happens)" situation. The sentences in b, c, and d don't really follow sound logic.

>>16653528
ほしがふりますたびにいぬがみずをのむ

Does that make sense?

>>16653553
First, the dictionary form is used before たびに, so it would be ふるたびに.
And I think that the situations before and after have to be somewhat directly connected. So 雨がふるたびにブルーな気分になる or something.

日本語をわかってるふりをするたびに自分の無能が明確になる爆笑

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Are there any resources for finding Japanese subtitles for anime? I'd like watch Yume no Crayon Oukoku with subs, as seeing the words and kanji would be very useful, but I don't know of any places where I might download Japanese subtitles for anime.

>>16653770
http://kitsunekko.net/dirlist.php?dir=subtitles%2Fjapanese%2F

If it isn't here, it most likely doesn't exist.

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>>16653774
>Phrase not found

I think it's OK to use keywords in the initial learning phase, but you want to get out of the habit of recalling them as soon as possible because they will confuse you and slow you down if you place too much confidence in them.

ぬっふぇ

おにいちゃんおなかすいた

What's the right term for 後書き, the page where a doujinshi author leaves their comments?
Afterword or postscript?

>>16653870
後書き

>>16653870
>Afterword

I prefer this one. Not sure which is "right".

>>16653889
Agreed. It seems more appropriate for such literature.

>>16653831
スイカをあげるから、大丈夫

There seems to be a lot of people who misunderstand what exactly RtK is used for and why it is beneficial.

Anyone who is spouting shit about keywords being retarded/pointless/counterintuitive simply don't understand the method. I don't mean that RtK is 'the one true method' or that you need to do it at all, but more that it isn't flat-out retarded.

RtK is simply a (subjectively) quick and easy way to remember how to WRITE and RECOGNISE kanji, not how to read them. Yes, heisig's keywords often borrrow from, or are sometimes the exact meaning of, kanji, but he states very clearly in the intro that they are no means a way to be able to understand and read them.

It's more to help you recognise reoccurring patterns, giving you the ability to look at what seems like a dense, complicated kanji, break it down into manageable parts and give it a memorable mnemonic to retain it, while at the same time teach correct stroke order. It makes the learning process easier, particularly for writing.

It's not for everyone, especially if you don't give two shits about handwriting and stroke order, but I'd argue even if you don't, it gives you that recognition and the ability to retain information that will come in handy when it comes to grinding new kanji. Especially useful for people who don't have a good study technique and feel aimless/overwhelmed by the sheer amount of kanji to go through.

So yeah, try not to shit on RtK if you don't even know what it can do for you, and if you're one of the many beginners on the fence about whether to do it, I'd say go for it - some people finish it in under 4 months, and get a nice headstart for the ongoing grind.

>>16653889
>>16653892
ありがとうございます

>>16653894
You wasted time and are now trying to justify it.

>>16653894
Most people give up like a month in though.
I gave up after like a week.

>>16653915

Yes, the kind of people who realise language learning is hard work and subsequently drop learning altogether.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean the method is bad.

>>16653893
いまふゆだよ

うってるの？

なるの？

>>16653934
つっこめよ

>>16648868
>katakana takes a couple hours at most to learn.
４う. some people say a week is fast.

Does such a thing as a free, corpus based dictionary for Japanese exist on the internet? I doubt it but I'll ask.

つっこんであげない！

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>>16653998

>>16653894
>RtK
is that the thing with the ribs

>tfw lived in Japan for nearly 2 years, and just landed myself a university teaching position.

My Japanese is still useless, I failed N5 shortly after I moved here and never tried again, now I want to start properly studying again, would be nice to get to at least N4/N3 someday. I can do daily life Japanese but cannot hold a conversation and grammer just destroys me. Any tips you lovely people?

>>16654108
Yeah, go to /int/.

>>16654110

Will do!

>>16654108
ask your japanese gf

>>16653997
better corpus of contemporary written Japanese, something like that

>>16654108
N3/N4 is like... three months of study.
Go read Tae Kim's grammar guide for starters.

>>16654114

Dont have one m8, too busy trying to willy the cute ginger Irish grill I work with, and failing.

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>>16654089

No, ribs is not a keyword in RtK 1 at least.

>「男心としましては、そういうこともあると言っておきましょう」
>としましては
What is this?

>>16654165
"としては"の もったいぶった ひょうげん だと おもう

>運命には余り分岐はない。
>分岐は主に二つ。
>ばれてしまったとき。
>もう一つは‥‥‥。
>‥‥‥寄りかかりたくなってしまったとき。
I'm not sure I get the points here.
"There are two divergences in fate. One when you are exposed, and one when you want to lean on someone" ? Doesn't really make much sense in my head...
The line that comes afterward if it helps:
>僕がカナに全てを打ち明けたのはこの条件を同時に満たしていたからに他ならない。
The only time I can tell Kana everything is once I fulfill both of these (?)

風を引いてしまった
今日勉強しなくてもいいかな

>>16654900
>風
「風邪」じゃないか

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I am so bad at recognizing the meaning of verbs in dialogue and I don't know why.

Noticing progress is fun. I actually read pretty damn fast now compared to a few months ago it gives me hope. Until I boot up a Romeo game and feel like a day 1 beginner again...

>>16647778
So Axanael always pops up on these charts. A month or two back an anon was complaining about it being impossible to find when another anon linked https://sukebei.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=280401 .

It would seem that version doesn't have a crack and google isn't being very helpful in locating one. Dead mediafire links from ancient /jp/ threads when the game first came out is about all.

Does anyone have a working version they can point me towards?

>>16655706
You can't just mount it with WinCDEmu?

>>16655783
No, but have been using a different mounter. Will give WinCDEmu a try.

lmao what the fuck is this shit
青木まりこ現象

>>16655022
そうそうよね
誤字に気が付かなかったらしいなぁ

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>>16655819
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=青木まりこ現象とは

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>>16655783
Same errors. Trying to launch it through the DVD drive produces the same errors as the desktop shortcut.

hi /djt/
I'm not fluent in japanese but can read most stuff i come across.
I'm looking to translate a vn its a moege it's not hard or anything

i just wanted to know if theres any resources like proper ways to translate, like the abcs?
are there ways to translate kanji jokes specifically?
what about if they refer to themselves as 僕or 俺 do I make note or ignore it

anything i should know?

>>16656165
Sentences in English begin with capital letters.

>>16655933
I installed it from a torrent on rutracker and it worked.

>>16656165
If you have to ask these things you're about 5 years early to translate anything. Go read stuff by famous translators like Alexander O Smith and Jay Rubin, their interviews and thoughts on various matters etc. if you're curious about the matter.

>>16656181
Maybe i didn't explain it right.
I meant like tricks or tools of the trade like the reader might not know kanji and there's a joke where, for example: 雫 read backwards says 屑 in it and there might be a play on words like that.

Do you just note it?
"Your name backwards may be rubbish, but you aren't Shizuku!"
[Shizuku backwards is kuzushi which contains kuzu(trash)]

Is there a standard to follow for stuff like these?
Do i use curved brackets or do i jist put it in the TL note or something, stuff like that. I just want to know if there's a standard.

>>16656165
Maybe grab the Routledge Course in Japanese Translation from libgen (I haven't actually read it though).

>>16656303
As far as fansubbing goes, the standard used to be translator notes, but nowadays they just make something up. Given your example I imagine they would make up some kind of Shitzuku joke. I preferred the days of TL notes.

>>16656303
... What has this to do with anything? The answer lies in the post you're responding to. With research comes knowledge.
And clearly you're not a native of English, so you will have to go through a few hundred English books first to better your understanding of the language and improve creative writing skills. Your posts right now don't read much better than machine translation.

>>16656165
There's a VN translation thread here in /jp/, you're probably better off posting there and asking for their opinion on things like pronouns, puns, etc.

>>16654808
That's the only way I can think to translate it. Maybe it means not those two instances specifically but rather your choices as to how you handle those situations. But I really can't be sure.

>>16656174
ワロタ

>>16655706
Managed to find a post that fixed my problems ( >>16535700 -- embarrassingly, from very recent https://boards.4tan.org/jp/thread/16518423/#16535700).

That zippy website is aids, but at least it's all working.

>>16656382
>>16656322
>>16656424
okay thank you
>>16656387
rude...

>>16656597
But yeah if you don't have the creative writing ability of a trained native then you should get a good editor and let them handle any english word choice issues.

Is it important to remember and to use bullshit "Engrish" words in Japan?

I am RICHAADO
I paid for my dinner with my KUREJIITO KADO.
With my dinner, I had a KOHII to drink
I took the BAASU home instead of the TAKUSHI

I feel like a retard saying these. Come on, would they really be insulted if I said these English words properly?

>>16656647
They aren't English if they're written in Japanese, for one. And many of the loan words have very different meanings in Japanese.

>>16656647
No, go ahead and speak like a baka gaijin. They won't mind. In fact, they will expect it.

>>16656647
You would come across about as douchy as a guy who pronounces every english word based on the "proper pronunciation of the latin/greek root words"

>>16656647
It depends, do you also pronounce loanwords ``properly'' when you speak English?

>>16656667
I do.

I say Karaoke properly. I don't say "Carry-oh-key" like most Americans do.

>>16656681
I see, so you're retarded.

>>16656689
ok

>>16656681
What about résumé, chocolate, banana and piano?

>>16656693
Okay, you've probably got me there.

I presume the "proper" pronunciation of chocolate is "cho-co-laat," but we all say CHALK-LET

>>16656664
I've heard some French people do that. It's kinda cute, actually.

>>16656699
And note that when this guy says "we all say", he *really* does mean ALL.

>>16656322
Someone should scan this if they haven't already. It looks interesting.

>>16656739
libgen is exactly a piracy thing