Netherlands what the fuck?

Guatemala what the fuck?

l*ftists

>>71579675
Should have sunk them desu

fucking gringos stay out

>>71580058
you arent allowed to say this unless you are 100% indio

>>71580093
get out

>>71579675
how about stop breading like rabbits? then the dutch will go away on there own

File: 932859283591.jpg (15KB, 236x315px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 236x315px

>>71580138
How about we sink the boat carrying women attempting to murder innocent children.

>>71580120
you are a coloniser

>>71580176
Central Americans are not innocent

>>71580208
Care to explain yourself?

Fuck them, hope they get arrested and killed in jail.

Leave them alone with their problems.

>>71579675
>offering abortions

the dutch are great with hook-deals but what the fuck

lol, we ought to do that to africa xept not a choice

There is nothing wrong with abortions, fuck your 3rd world opinion, here have a dead fetus as a consultation prize.

Abortion is murder.

>>71580138
ah yes, we all should have sub 2 fertility rates like your country

>>71580223
The unborn children are. The Dutch on the other hand...

File: World-Fertility-Rate-Map.png (217KB, 1024x565px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 1024x565px

>>71580281
guatemala wtf were trying to be first world here

>>71580282
>he forgot the pic
Lmao nigga where even are you
I'm not disagreeing with abortions i'm just saying the prostituting, drug addicted dutch nigger need to stay the fuck off my territory

gringo just means outsider you moron

>>71580410
Be careful with those words.

>>71580370
>mfw no depleting population and dwindling birth rates
Feels good my man

Smart idea desu
Guats go to Mexico and shit it up
And Mexicans go to the us to shit it up
Kill the root

>>71580370
I can't blame them, Guatemalan girls ooze sexual energy. Not the purely native ones, but mixed guatemalan girls are GOAT.

>>71580446
>flag of amsterdam is literally xxx as in porno or strong alcohol
Kys degenerate

>be sexually active slut
>fail to check every other week if you're pregnant
>demand to abort a life after the first trimester because you are an irresponsible bitch and don't want your lavish lifestyle to change

I fucking hate this shit

Eh, groups here have been doing that since forever. Since 1999 I believe. Going to foreign countries offering locals to kill themselves.

>>71580522
It's the other way around.

Dutch flags constantly get stolen.

>>71580370
>france
Salam my brothers

>>71580616
wtf I hate the Dutch now

File: abortion_drone_2.jpg (2MB, 4608x3072px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4608x3072px

They also now have abortion drones.

File: A0DA35DC-591C-49F7-BFF8-F2653F579465-2510-000002A38B93396F_tmp.png (2KB, 220x147px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 220x147px

>>71580656
Ok i'm sorry for being so rude
But i still don't like this flag it makes me uncomfortable

Degenerate waitto piggus exporting it's culture of death go homu

>>71580850
Where should I go if I want to hunt these abortion drones.

>>71580850
>take pregnant wife out for walk
>the twins we were expecting are both ripped out of the womb by a rogue abortion drone and carried away to the Netherlands
I fucking hate your country

>>71580850
>>71579675

This is actually pretty fucking cool.
Where can I go to fund an abortion cruise ship that can abort hundreds of third world shitskins per voyage.

They take the woman on their boat. Sail to international waters. Kill the baby. Then bring the woman back, only one turd lighter.

>>71580886

Europe.

File: Top_10_Adult_Website_Host_Countries_n.jpg (151KB, 960x684px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 960x684px

>>71580867
No need to apologize.

>>71580886
Quebec

>having less poor people on earth is somehow bad

>>71580370
>France

kek, if Le Pen doesn't win they're doomed

>>71581687
> murdering innocent children

Every day we stray a little further from God's light

>>71579675
Guatemala should make a deal with their drug producers to send boats loaded with heroin, cocaine, guns and explosives, park it out in international waters, and allow dutch citizens to buy whatever they want, no question asked.

It's basically the same thing. A way to disregard another sovereign nation through legal loopholes.

That being said. I support some kind of abortions though. As long as it's not excessive. Like first or second month or so, abort away. After that, no way.

>>71581884
according to them they'd get aborted anyway these ladies are just providing a clean and safe environment

>>71581909
i agree, based norwegian friend
it´s not the abortions that bother me, it´s the violation of our laws and sovereignty by some cunty leftists who think they´re doing the objectively right thing.

>>71582087
yup. But the Dutch and the Belgians are never going to understand national sovereignty.

If someone did this to us, I'd totally support sinking the ships with extreme prejudice.

>>71582087
friendly reminder that this is the first time 99% of us heard of them too

SINK THE EVIL TOOTHPASTE BOAT@@@

Where ever we go, we must kill
Living in a highly populated area makes you rethink the efficienty of some human lives. If they don't contribute to the state and our nations goal, they have permission to die.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-holland-netherlands-dutch-euthanised-alcohol-addiction-alcoholic-netherlands-a7446256.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/netherlands-sex-abuse-victim-euthanasia-incurable-ptsd-assisted-suicide/

>>71580370
What happens in Ireland?
It's obvious that the US has high birth rates because of brown people, and France too. But why Ireland?

File: 1411247160570.jpg (8KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 300x300px

>>71580461
Yeah, the world isn't nearly populated enough

>>71582751
seriously?

I thought germans knew stuff.

We must kill all the brown babies. You cant stop us.

>tfw the entirety of Central America should get them abortion boats

My tropical hell hole is particularly filled with useless babies who are the children of people who were useless babies, who are themselves the offspring of useless people. We need a decline in population in this place.

>>71579675
kek
unlucky for you the dutch are very much at home in the water

>>71579675
>going around the world slaughtering unborn babies
>anything wrong with that

>>71582820
I am Greek

We didn't do nuffin.

File: linkola42.jpg (40KB, 610x406px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 610x406px

>>71581017
WTF I love Netherlands now

>>71579675
Nothing wrong with abortion you religious bastards.

>>71580526
>>>/r9k/

>>71583602
>HOW DARE INSULT OUR BEAUTIFUL WOMEN THEY ARE PURE AND NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG THEIR BODIES THEIR CHOICE U RACIST SHITHEAD

>>71581017
It was jamals baby t b h. The drone just saved your marriage.

>>71583644
Triggered?

>>71583662
Why?

>>71581217
>Virgin Islands
ironic

>>71583685
You over reacted quite a lot.

File: 486_man.jpg (40KB, 430x323px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 430x323px

>>71580231
he can't say gringos stay out unless he looks like this

File: 8650486155_216ec30e98_b.jpg (167KB, 991x653px) Image search: [Google]

167KB, 991x653px

>>71583896

pic related is me

>>71583779
Sorry.

>>71583955
fucking larpers

>>71583955
pls be in Manaus

>>71580370
>france

kek

KEK

>>71584004
>Sorry.
why are you apologising?
cuck

>>71584192

no anglos allowed, sorry

for portuguese men only :^)

File: 1487279071563.jpg (47KB, 469x463px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 469x463px

>there are countries where abortion is still an issue

>>71582671
desu that's bassed. I wish we had euthanasia for severe treatment resistant psychiatric illnesses

>>71579675
lol what the fuck?

>>71582751
catholic
also they suffered a series of unfortunate events throughout history and their population has still not recovered

File: priest stop.jpg (20KB, 565x277px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 565x277px

>>71584327

if you people start coming here trying to abort our monkeys, we'll fucking flat the earth with your faces

File: d7ef79163cd8d926b66ab5ff7238d475.jpg (46KB, 682x600px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 682x600px

>>71581017
>both ripped out of the womb by a rogue abortion drone and carried away to the Netherlands

>>71579675
>Guatemala
That's actually very considerated and humanitarian coming from the Dutch, I don't see the problem.

>>71582671

Wow that's horrible. This system can be badly abused, and it can be used as an excuse to avoid helping individuals in need (ie the alcoholic could be offered psychiatric help and a job, not a fucking lethal injection)

>>71584477
No. Kill them. Kill everything.

>>71584477
This is way cheaper tho

>>71584527
Your zeal pleases Lord Khorne.

Do they just throw the fetus off the side of the boat and into the sea when theyre done lol

File: IMG-20160114-WA0075.jpg (26KB, 268x264px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 268x264px

>>71584477
>psychiatric help and a job
>and a job
Do y'all proto-macedonians even understand addiction?

>>71584477
oy vey it's a suishoah

>>71584477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M

>>71584477
You do realize that there are checks and it's hard to get? You can't walk into a clinic and ask for a lethal injection. There's oversight and psychiatrists have to deem your condition to be treatment-resistant and being competent to choose euthanasia. It's better than locking people up in wards for multiple years to potentially the rest of their lives.

>>71584595
No, we eat them.

>>71584595
Releasing to much nutrients in the water is bad die the environment do probably not.

Gotta think about the wellbeing of the planet you know :^)

>>71584477
Yeah.
And there is even more stupidity abound.
Like euthanasia-on-demand, no questions asked, including for teenagers and pre-teens.
Because there's no way that can be used as a hasty "solution" by depressed minds, especially developing ones.

>>71584678
is that why you're so tall?

We are fucking evil. Love it.

Brilliant cornering of the abortion market by those flying Dutchmen. They also promote abstinence through the Christian chapter of the adjacent region to promote unwanted pregnancies. Fucking geniuses.

>>71579675
Based Netherlands. Should be going to Africa and China instead though.

>>71584799
>China
China is sub-replacement, though.

File: 1390693122170.jpg (60KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 480x360px

>>71579675
Send those dutch to Chicago!

>>71584719
Yes pls donate to out research society we are hungr- I mean for leukemia things

http://nltimes.nl/2016/08/08/netherlands-expand-stem-cell-donation-programme-leukemia-battle

>>71584757
>evil
hehehe.... MH-17

>>71581017
fuck man i laughed too hard at this

>>71579675
Fuck those cunts man. I fully support the decision of the president to send the navy. Who the fuck do they think they are?

>>71584986
Fuck you let us murder your unborn babies

File: 1487781769549(2).jpg (913KB, 2200x3300px) Image search: [Google]

913KB, 2200x3300px

>>71579675
>>71579675
>banning abortion

Literally third world desu

>>71585091
Yeah. What's their fucking problem?

>>71584986
Jesus when i see this kind of Guatemalans i remember why this is a shithole.

Nuke this shithole.

File: thom.png (257KB, 301x299px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 301x299px

>>71584719
SHUT IT DOWN
THEY KNOW

>>71585171
buu buu el chicano!!!!
fuera fuera maldito liberal

File: 1487870882742.jpg (158KB, 1080x1080px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 1080x1080px

>>71580850
>vaginale tabletten

>>71581687
It is not about abortion dipshit. You are insulting our sovereignty. Respect our fucking laws you savage.

>>71585150
>this, I rather kill my own kind and let all the negroes AND I MEAN ALL OF THEM fuck my girlfriend

>>71581909
THIS

>>71585261
Laws are just guidelines.

File: girlscantlovegirls.png (25KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 500x500px

Based Holland bringing the bantz overseas.

>>71585242
ya ensrio que asco me das lame huevos del estado (de un estado fallido que gracioso)
>>71585261
>you savage.
Hoooo the irony
asco me das

>>71585171
You talking to me? Fuck off. It is the law.

>>71585377
>Hooo the irony

La gente ignorante como vos me da mas asco. Ni es por el tema del aborto. Es nuestra ley estupido.

>>71585371
put a burka on the gercuck

>>71585338
Really? Nice. You mind if I go to your house and take all your shit and murder your family? Ohhh it is illegal you say? Pffffff just a guideline

>>71584669
Currently getting euthanasia is very hard. It needs to be a well considered decision by the patient. There needs to be endless and unbearable suffering. He needs to get advised about his options and prospects.He has to come to the conclusion there is no alternative. You need a second opinion by a second doctor. And afterwards it's checked by a commission and a prosecutor.

But there are debates in politics going on to allow people with "finished lives" to kill themselves as well. Because for a lot of old people life is pretty much over anyway.

>>71585541
Our government currently supports euthanasia for people with completed lives.

File: Japanese demographics.png (51KB, 1302x652px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 1302x652px

>>71581806
Doomed to have a non-dying population?

>>71585541
Yeah, I know. The retards who think you can get euthanasia on demand are dumb.

I wish we had your laws tbqh.

>>71585635
The proposed law sets the age when you are old and wise enough to decide if your life is completed at 75 at the moment.

File: penning.jpg (26KB, 323x261px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 323x261px

>>71585635
Not quite, they're just allowed to wear bandages saying "don't perform CPR on me" stuff. They can't be legally euthanized tho.

>>71585642
el haitiANO

>>71585798
It's a newly proposed law supported by the government.

>>71585887
http://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/kabinet-hulp-bij-zelfdoding-toestaan-bij-voltooid-leven~a4394498/

It's supported by VVD, PvdA, GL, D66 and 50Plus.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/dit-gebeurde-er-in-debat-over-het-voltooid-leven~a4462290/

>>71585765
Based as fuck.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to spend the rest of my life in a hospital hooked up to life-support machines to keep me alive. I'd rather a dignified exit.

Netherlands has way more freedom than us in this regards. I wish the christfaggot pro-life cunts in this country would fuck off.

>>71586111
Pretty much any country in Europe is more free than your cunt lad :^)

>>71586111
>I wish the christfaggot pro-life cunts in this country would fuck off.

Not every pro-life person is religious dumbfuck. It involves a lot of legal principles and rights. It is not a religious subject.

>>71586111
My grandpa had a similar mindset. He didn't want to live if he need to be on a machine. When he had his stroke after he came to in the hospital the first thing he did was rip out the breathing machine he was hooked up to and told the doctor that he would kick his ass if he was hooked up to any more machines similar to it. The old man loved for another ten years

>>71586162
Nah, they have more freedom of expression and europeans

>>71586265
*lived

>>71586281
...and europeans tax to much your earnings and that aint freedom.

>>71586281
False

>>71586318
Tax is what keeps our overpopulated small country running desu m8

>>71586162
Only the Netherlands allows this though. The majority of European countries ban euthanasia.

>pretty much every euroean country is more free than you

Nah. Not in terms of negative liberty. Our free speech, self defense and gun rights are way better. In my state I don't pay income tax, have legal weed, and can ride a motorcycle without a fucking helmet and smoke indoors in bars that allow it. Also alcohol and cigs are cheap as fuck. I wish we had your euthanasia laws though

if you do this with Jews it's "GENOCIDE" but with Latinos it's just "PROGRESSIVE"

>>71585980
>It's supported by D66
No shit
Pechtold wants to euthanize every person above 67, sick fuck.

>>71582751
We actually had above replacement level white birthrates before the economy crashed, and some white demographics still do. At the moment it's being propped up primarily by hispanics but white birthrates are still ahead of most of Europe's.

File: vjfmIh2[1].jpg (141KB, 500x462px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 500x462px

>>71586378
Can you also cycle without helmet, that looks so gay in other cunts.

>>71586378
That being said, being able to drink in public and a lower drinking age is something I envy. Also the AoC being 16 instead of 18 because I don't think a 25 year old should be classified as a sex offender for banging a 16 year old.

>>71586501
Yep.

>>71586534
>25 y/o banging 16 y/o should be okay

Fritzl get the fuck out

>>71586229
this is true.

I'm not religious at all. And even though I support the right to have an abortion, and even for the public to pay for it in my country, I see the whole thing as a grey area. Especially when the kid is over three months or so. It's not just a "bunch of cells" at any point. So, still pro abortion, but I get the pro-lifers point of view.

There's a whole other deal to just go "fuck it, those guys over there need the same abortion laws as us", and then disregard their entire legal system.

Imagine the butthurt in the Netherlands if Angola, with their 12 year age of consent laws legalized prostitution, and sent boatloads of them to the coast of the Netherlands to improve their economy.

>>71586587
aoc is 16 in the Netherlands though :^)

File: 1487717969649.jpg (1MB, 3410x2446px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3410x2446px

>>71581909
>Guatemala should make a deal with their drug producers to send boats loaded with heroin, cocaine, guns and explosives, park it out in international waters, and allow dutch citizens to buy whatever they want, no question asked
This already happens here.

>>71580176
Fetuses are not children and reproductive autonomy is a human right :-)))))

>>71586378
We have our own things. We have better privacy laws. Net neutrality laws. ISP's aren't allowed to spy on you. There are no decryption orders.

File: My sides.png (187KB, 327x316px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 327x316px

>muh god
>muh abortions
>guatemala and usa sitting in the tree

>>71586619
Legalbro here. It's actually lower if there is an equal relationship (this is not a legal term, but it basically all boils down to it). If two people love each other then one be as young as 12.

Unless of course, you know, you're a parent, teacher, just want to bang some bitches or anything else that upsets the judge.

>>71586229
>not every pro life person is religious dumbfuck

The vast majority are.

The opposition to abortion is nonsensical. It is not based in any scientific grounds as the vast majority of biologists will argue that it's not the same as a living human consciously aware of his/her surroundings. It's just fee-fees.

>>71586764
THIRD

>>71586668
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170220/02061736748/netherlands-looks-to-join-super-snooper-club-with-new-mass-surveillance-law.shtml

:^)

>>71586905
I know. But there is a difference. We are allowed to defend ourselves.

>>71586950
Plus corporations aren't allowed to spy either.

>>71585798
>reanimate
Dutch confirmed for legalizing necromancy

File: 1487669390260.jpg (511KB, 1364x1938px) Image search: [Google]

511KB, 1364x1938px

>>71585283
Blacks disproportionately get abortions. Also we're the ones killing Guatamalan indios, you should congratulate us.

>>71587042
>he doesn't reanimate dead people
You know CPR doesn't work right.

>>71586828
Where do you set the limit???
Would you be okay to abort a baby that is close to being born?

The thing is nobody has set a limit and pro choice cunts generally want to legalize abortion at any circunstance. And no, biologists are not fully decided as to set an exact moment in wich a baby is a person.

Seriously, I literally just talked to an atheist about this and he is fully pro life.

>>71587163
The limit in the Netherlands for abortions isn't a solid one.

You can abort a baby as long as it's not viable to live independently of it's mother outside of the womb. So as medical science advances the period in which you can abort a baby decreases here.

>>71586617
>and then disregard their entire legal system.
I am more concerned about this than about it being abortion.

>>71587163
A fetus is not a person. This is the stance of most scientists.

>>71586617
>Imagine the butthurt in the Netherlands if Angola, with their 12 year age of consent laws legalized prostitution, and sent boatloads of them to the coast of the Netherlands to improve their economy.


I'm waiting... When do they arrive?

File: 1487838250734.jpg (1MB, 2129x3000px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2129x3000px

>>71586668
>We have better privacy laws.
M8...

>>71587205
>as long as it's not viable to live independently of it's mother outside of the womb.
Damn. But babies can be very well formed and still be dependant to their mother thought.

Our law says you can abort if the mother's life is in danger. I would include rape victims.

File: 1487640894094.jpg (360KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

360KB, 1280x1024px

>>71586991
Where are you getting this information? Jewgle and faceberg spy massively without inpunity.

>>71587296
So what? Scientists don't make laws.

You can argue forever if they're the ones who SHOULD make laws, but that's not the case anywhere.

There's way too many cultural differences in the world for there to be "one true law" for all. The Netherlands should not impose their laws on Guatemala. They could use statistics, rhetoric and science to try to change the public opinion in Guatemala, but at the end of the day Guatemalans are the sovereign of Guatemala.

>>71587296
>The use of the term "fetus" generally implies that an embryo has developed to the point of being recognizable as a human
How is this not murder?

File: 876576856.jpg (55KB, 640x426px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 640x426px

>>71587381
Soon.

>>71587481
I never said they should impose their laws on the spic shithole you idiot. I base my arguments based on the current scientific consensus in which a fetus is not the same as a living person. The abortion debate is an ethical one, the science is already settled on this matter.

>>71587481
Thank you. You have a legal positivist view but you are completely right.

>>71587542
Because a fetus should not be granted personhood and it is not the same as a living being consciously aware of their surroundings. It is not the same as a baby. You're tied up in this debate on moral grounds, not scientific ones.

>>71587570
The definition of "person" is entirely philosophical and legal. It has nothing to do with science.

So, whenever some scientist say what is, and what isn't a person, he's probably making a philosophical statement, like most of us.

There is no scientific definition of a person, since it's not a scientific concept.

To say in americanese, they're the same as "rights", not scientific, but something we'd conclude on philosophical and legal terms.

>>71587636
What you are saying is that a human is a person just after birth?

>>71580370
Everyone talking about France, but no one seem to notice
>New Zealand

>>71587570
>>71587636
>The jew gets angrier when people don't agree with him
Hmmm...

>>71587791
Good point. He is talking about rights but only trusts scientists when rights are not a scientific topic.

File: population_1700_2000.gif (5KB, 455x282px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 455x282px

>>71582751
they're still trying to recover
this is what they get for not learning how to fish

>>71587791
Are you a lawyer or law student? You seem to have good legal knowledge.

>>71586617
same. I support abortion clinics because I know that it's better for women to have access to professionals who can perform safe procedures rather than some DIY or alleyway doctor who can do some harm. At the same time I still see it as murder past the """bundle of cells""" stage.

>>71587791
Did you not read my post here >>71587636

>It is not the same as a baby. You're tied up in this debate on moral grounds, not scientific ones.

I said that most scientists don't consider a fetus to be a person. The argument about when a fetus is the same as a living being or not is not a scientific one. Most scientists thus consider a fetus to be a person when it is consciously aware of his/her surroundings and can live independently from its mother.

>>71587959
Irish people weren't allowed to fish
Didn't need to either, there was plenty food to go around

>>71587636
Why does it matter if it's not a person (implying that personhood can be quantified lmao), you are still taking active steps to put an end to a future person.

>>71588373
>you are still taking active steps to end a future person

Nothing wrong with this. If I run over a pregnant woman in Australia, I'd be charged with one count of homicide. Even the law does not consider it to be murder.

>>71588253
Of course we're tied in this on moral grounds. (philosophical and legal), rather than scientific. Because that's what the whole thing about laws is.

Science is not a part of it. And it doesn't matter what any scientists have to say about something outside his field, and this is outside any scientists field, since it's not a scientific concept.

A fetus is a living being, according to biology. And so is a plant, a bacteria and an ant.

But is it a person? Noone fucking knows, because a "person" is not a biological concept. You can ask a biologist when a fetus gets conscience, and he will give an answer that should be respected out of a scientific point of view. But whether or not that fetus has VALUE, either as a "person" or in some other philosophical regard can't be concluded on scientific terms. Because moral values are not scientific.

Noone is making the claim that a fetus has conscience. I'm in favor of legalized abortion, but I'm under no impression my point is a scientific one.

You sound like a fourteen year old who treats science like a religion. And that's just as stupid as religious people treating religion like science.

>>71588812
Our government always asks expert advice before implementing a law.

Often scientific. From the council of state, central planning bureau, central bureau of statistics, universities, (medical) professional unions, interest groups, etc. All depending on the context.

>>71588942
That finished life proposed that allows everyone to commit euthanasia was also researched by a special commission that has to recruit scientists that have to advice the government before making a political vote.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/levenseinde-en-euthanasie/inhoud/commissie-voltooid-leven

>>71589054
Well, there are 11 professors leading that commission.

>>71588812
I trust the opinions of scientists as they are more educated and well-versed on this matter whom the great majority say that a fetus is not the same as a person. This is my argument.

>>71589054
I agree with this and the law permitting euthanadia for severe treatment-resistant psychiatric conditions. So you don't have scenarios like this in Norway where you are locked up for ten years and counting for being suicidal:http://www.vg.no/spesial/2016/lenket/

Mental healthcare in the Netherlands is one of the best in the world.

>>71589277
euthanasia*

>>71587570
This "humans are not really humans if they are too young" argument literally made surgeons perform vivisections on non-anesthetized babies until 1985.

>>71580370
>the state with the highest fertility rate is literally called Niger
Come on, I expected like 10 jokes about it by this time

>>71588942
and yes, context is important here.

For example if you're going to make a law about some emission regulation; ask a scientist who's been studying it. Then ask other scientists. Then try to make it work with the people. Hell, even ask an economist.

Or if you want to make a huge wall. Ask engineers, ask economists.

But if you want to define what a "person" is? A psychiatrist and a biologist would be the experts on conscience, awareness, pain and so on.

But you've still gotten nowhere closer to the moral value of a fetus/human/whatever. Because this change according to cultures.

Same as if it should be legal to eat human flesh. A medical professional could argue it's not safe for consumption due to the risk of prion disease. And he would be right. But is THIS why we don't eat human flesh? Hell no, we don't eat human flesh, because as a society we view it as morally abhorrent. We had this ingrained in us long before even knowing about prions.

Or age of consent laws. They differ among similar western nations. Because scientists can't figure out the "scientifically correct age of consent laws", because it's not a scientific concept.

>>71589277
>I trust the opinions of scientists as they are more educated and well-versed on this matter whom the great majority say that a fetus is not the same as a person. This is my argument.
Did you even read what he said? Or do you not understand? He isn't even pro life.

>>71589277
Currently it's very hard for suicidal people to get euthanasia. Because if someone has a depression he's not in a sober state of mind. So he can't truly objectively look at his situation. But he's also suffering endlessly and unbearably. And doctors have to weigh these two things against each other.

So it can literally take years before doctors are confident enough to decide they have enough grounds for a suicidal person to allow euthanasia. During which they usually try to treat the person.

>>71589619
He was asking why I treat scientists highly on this debate and I stated why you idiot. Fetal development is a matter of biology, and most of the people who study this say a fetus should not be granted "personhood".

>>71589552
>But if you want to define what a "person" is?
I don't think anyone can answer that question. That's also why you can't put too much weight on the answer of it. But you can make objective criteria like if something seems to be aware of stimuli. Or in the Dutch case we took a different approach >>71587205

But I know what you mean. Politics is often just semantics and a matter of opinion.

>>71589277
there are no scientists working on the philosophical concept of "person". Philosophers might, but they're not scientists, don't mix the two up.

For example, a rocket scientist might know shitloads about rockets, aerodynamics, material technology and so on. But do you trust his judgement more than any other guy on whether or not fucking animals should be legal?

A scientist is useful in his field. And should be listened to whenever his field comes up in politics. But for subjects where his field is not represented, his opinion doesn't matter anymore than anyone else.

And there are some reasons why abortion should be legal, both from a medical point of view, and an economical. Legalized abortion will save a lot of women from death due to DIY abortions. And it will save the economy some by letting people finish education and not bring up too many kids in low income households. But these arguments don't even touch the crux of the pro-lifers arguments. Whether or not a fetus has an inherent value in being a fetus.

Pro life think so. Pro choice don't think so. And there's no way to conclude which one is right, because it's all subjective.

>>71589633
Yep, I know. Euthanasia in regards to severe psychiatric conditions in the Netherlands is only applicable to treatment-resistant ones and where the patient is competent to make the decision.

The girl who recieved euthanasia for severe PTSD in the Netherlands was in treatment for over a decade and failed.

Also depression does not automatically equate to mental incompetence. This shitty meme needs to die: http://jme.bmj.com/content/41/8/577.full.pdf

>>71589699
Personhood is a legal status that grants you rights and obligations. It a legal concept.

What he said
>"person" is not a biological concept
>whether or not that fetus has VALUE, either as a "person" or in some other philosophical regard can't be concluded on scientific terms. Because moral values are not scientific.
>Noone is making the claim that a fetus has conscience.

You never made an argument against this. You just went "lol but I just trust scientists"

>>71589993
I didn't say they were working on defining personhood. I said that most biologists who by definition study life and the development of it state that a fetus should not be considered the same as a person. So I trust their opinion on this matter more than armchair moralists, religious figures or pretty much any other person.

>>71590046
See
>>71590150

Biologists study life, if most biologists say that a fetus is not the same as a person their opinion should hold greater weight than that of anyone else.

less doodoo skin babies that will grow up to be criminals. bravo netherlands

>>71590150
but in this case, when a biologist is saying a fetus should or should not be considered a person, he IS being an armchair moralist.

He's ventured into philosophy, a non-science field. His opinion matters just as much as any other armchair moralist and philosopher.

Fuck, there's plenty of times some fauna scientist, or other type of expert write a comment in our newspapers saying some animals should be considered persons.

In fact, they're not even wrong. Anything can be a person. It all depends on what the specific culture considers a person. Or even what the specific individual considers a person.

Scientists aren't the elders of old times, who were right about anything they spoke off.

This is not a biology issue, so a biologists view doesn't matter any more than any other guy.

You're basically doing the exact same thing as religious figures do. And they're just as full of shit as you when they say "god said so".

>>71590296
>Biologists study life
Yes, they absolutely do buddy but do they study about rights? And can they decide who has rights? Do you know "person" is not a biological concept? Slaves were not persons but nobody denied they were humans. Do you understand now how this concept is not a scientific one?

Again, what he said
>"person" is not a biological concept
>whether or not that fetus has VALUE, either as a "person" or in some other philosophical regard can't be concluded on scientific terms. Because moral values are not scientific.
>Noone is making the claim that a fetus has conscience.

>>71582751
Catholicism and people from big families tend to want big families.
Most people I know want at least four kids.

>>71590594
You're acting like the opinion is not based on any scientific evidence that the biologist conducted when you have nothing to substantiate the claim.

For example, pro-life fags here claimed that a fetus is able to feel pain at 20 weeks and used it to legislate against abortion when science said no.

http://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal-pain-anesthesia.html

Most pro-lifers are religious. There is a correlation between education and being pro-choice.

Because biologists study life, and because most of them say a fetus is not the same as a person, their opinion should be hold greater weight than that of a priest or a politician for example.

>>71590882

Pro-lifers are full of shit most of the time when they either cling to cherry picked "science", or the "God said so" argument.

But you still haven't been able to make a scientific argument whether or not a fetus has inherent value or should have rights. Because it's not fucking possible to do so, because the subject is not in the realm of science.

Religion as a concept is at least purely philosophical. And no, they're not right either, because philosophy isn't science.

Neither pro lifers, nor pro choicers are objectively right, because it's fucking impossible to come to any scientific conclusion on any point.

And of course biologists are less likely to be religious. You don't start studying evolution if you believe in creationism.

>>71590882
Holy shit you are clearly too retarded to understand basic shit.
You keep saying "b-but religious people" too when nobody said something remotely religious.
Scintists do not know about every fucking topic so stop sucking their dicks so much.
>pro-life fags here
Nobody fucking cares because nobody used that argument here.

>>71580138
>how about stop breading like rabbits?
Germany will literally lose almost 20 million people within 84 years.
Tfw you don't even breed like a normal functioning animal to replace the numbers that will die off

>>71590882
And the rabid pro-choicers (not all pro-choicers though) rationalize a fetus as "just a clump of cells".

I'll pose a non-religious question then: When, objectively speaking, is a human not "just a clump of cells"?

why do white """""""""""""people""""""""""""""" hate babies so much?

>>71591430
^This

>>71591564
I already stated why biologists opinions on whether a fetus is equivalent to baby should be held to be more valid than that of others you spic retard. When you have most of the researchers who study life saying that a fetus is not the same as a person, it's telling. A fetus should not be granted personhood.

>>71591816
Because if you listen to modern pop-culture, having children is like throwing money in the fire and that they are like parasites that will ruin your life

>>71591874
Why? What makes them more qualified to judge when its okay to kill something and when its not?

>>71591928

I understand not wanting children, but sailing a fuck boat across the atlantic to kill central-american babies is autistic

Sup fags.

>>71580370
can this be adjusted for survival rate as well? i doubt 6 niglets per female survives to breeding age

>>71591992
They should've sailed to Africa, the birth rates there are out of control, the UN projects that Africa's population will rise to 4.4 Billion people (its now 1.2 Billion) by 2100.

>>71592053

but how are these people surviving?

>>71591965
Nice loaded question. Fetal development is a matter of science, and even though the issue of personhood is not a scientific one, the opinion of science is that a fetus is a person when it becomes consciously aware of its surroundings and being able to live independently from its host. So when you have people who study this shit for a living saying that a fetus is not a person, their opinion should hold greater weight than church leaders, advocacy organizations or me and you. The scientists are the least-biased here.

>>71589477
I'm also surprised by this

>>71592104
>Bill Gates' crusade to provide healthcare to Africans and save African kids
>Aid money that doesn't go into education, but just more healthcare programs
>No contraception
>No female rights and no abortions
>The all-round culture of "every baby is a gift from God"

Uneducated people with low life expectancy and high infant mortality have a lot of kids to ensure that at least some of them survive to adulthood.

>>71591874
How hard is it for you to understand that the concept "person", is not a biological one.

Human is biology, fetus is biology, baby is biology, awareness is biology/psychology, conscience is psychology. This is science.

Person is philosophy/law. This is not science.

In science, there's a right answer, and a wrong answer.

In not science, there's not. And this is what makes it not science.

Simple enough?

>>71592335

>Bill Gates values life

he must be covering up some kind of mass genocide with that poop water

>>71592531
I acknowledged this already you tard. See >>71592205

>>71592205
the opinion of most scientists* I should clarify

>>71580850
Can't wait for the sea to rise and wipe out that shithole.

>>71592205
so the phemtosecond that the fetus is not independent of the mother, ie. just as it's about to be seperated from the umbilical cord, it's not a person, but a phemtosecond later it is?

>>71579675
Offering abortions is not the same as setting out to kill every guatamalan baby. Although I would support this as well.

>>71587849
Maori and islanders have a birthrate double that of white kiwis
Even Asians have a higher birth rate than white kiwis

Lel they were on their way to El Salvador.

>>71581217
>proud of being a degenerate

File: Great Famine.jpg (5KB, 800x300px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 800x300px

>>71588281
>there was plenty food to go around

File: smug bITCH.png (89KB, 313x325px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 313x325px

>>71592004
>Aborts you

File: 0e9.jpg (27KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 600x600px

>>71591992
I don't understand why people in these countries aren't outraged.

These Europeans travel thousands of kilometers with the sole purpose to kill your kids.

Dog bless the dutch trying to genocide the third worlders

>>71579675
They should go to Africa. They're multiplying like vermin there.

>>71595544
t. leopold II

Memes aside a disgraceful spit in the face to Guatemala's sovereignty

>>71581017
fuck im dying right now, kek

Good choice on Guatemalan part. How social inept those dutch people have to be to no understand the repercussions of their actions is hilarious. How fucking social inept are those people?

Looks like the Dutch are doing the world a favor by trying to prevent more brown people from being born

>>71586111
Stop being an Amerifat then.

>>71594845
Can it survive outside the womb?

No? Then it's a matter of the Woman to decide.

>>71580370
Where are the 0-1 countries?

>>71585642
Why don't they bring in some Viets or Flips or Thais or something

>>71586831
WORLD

>>71595653
This
Fuck Drumpf and fuck white people

>>71599973
You trucking thing what type of immigrant matter idiot?
Japanese society and workplaces are hostile to immigrant labourers regardless of period of stay.

Even then it's not like Vietnam will behind shit forever vs say the Philippines or Thailand (the latter to a lesser extent).

>>71580176
This. Based Stanislaw in exile.

>>71595653
Eve then these Dutch "people's" effort are complete shit because it solves NOTHING in the big scheme of things.

>>71600115
Idk lol

>>71580369
>The unborn children are.
Not according to the Quran, Torah and Bible.

>>71584915
REPARATION!!

>>71600245
We need to abort ALL the unborn to prevent more sin from entering the world. A world without people is a world without sin.

>>71589477
A country named Niger which looks like chicken.

>>71599906
Ukraine used to be one

>>71579675
>get offered free healthcare
>tell them to fuck off
Very american thing to do

>>71594934
Kiwis need to stop fucking sheep.

Should the dutch be nuked? are they currently infested with leftist scum?

>>71591677
says south africa lmao

>American education
you could get more logical responses from beating a cat with a stick

>>71579675
>netherlandish liberal social attitudes surprize him.

File: REE (2).png (101KB, 754x124px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 754x124px

>>71584393
>catholic

>>71579675
too bad they didn't sink it.

>>71579675
>dutch boat offering abortions

fucking europeans

File: 1476650871075.jpg (20KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 320x320px

>>71581017

>>71591677
You mean, that we are increasing our efficiency, delivering more germany per capita than before.

>>71586491
Well the average Jebediah and Cletus and Chester has seven or nine kids still
Gotta secure future voters

File: 9d5e98dfacc0.jpg (55KB, 800x552px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 800x552px

>>71586639

>wanting less spics is a bad thing

The world should be thankful. Hope they visit Africa roo

BANTS
A
N
T
S

>>71582671
>your uncle once fiddled you when you were a kid?
>feel free to kill yourself

File: gbbpd4mdpe1y.png (16KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 800x533px

>>71580867
Wtf I hate Amsterdam now

>>71609620
*fewer


its because , even if we dont like them, they are still human, and its more the parents/society's fault for raising them badly than their own genetics half the time

>>71579675
Good job Guatemala!
Fucking baby killers.

File: 635145788466114675.jpg (95KB, 680x432px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 680x432px

>>71580176
You have our sabres and our wings!