Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1771

>Leave for a few weeks
>Come back, DJT on /int/
>Leave for a few days
>Now there's two DJT's, /int/ and /jp/
why lads. where do I post?

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>Reading Tae Kim
>get to は and が as particles
Why are you trying to fuck with me, Japan?

>>68465087
/jp/ is the better thread

>>68465087
If you're a weeaboo that is obsessed with anime, /jp/

If you're an actual hero, /int/

>>68465117
Fuck off

/jp/ is a board of pedophiles. literal touhou obsession breeding pedophilic ひきこもり like no tommorow

>>68465113
Try reading something else to see if it helps, like Japanese: The Manga Way, or watching through Visualizing Japanese Grammar.

>>68465171
Please die, normalfag.

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>>68465113
が is actually really easy to understand.

Think of が as a particle that identifies unknown information. Whenever you see が as a a particle, imagine it trying to tell you or ask for information that was unknown

made it so much easier to understand for me

>>68465117
/jp/ doesnt want this thread there though. They have repeatedly expressed their disapproval, yet you keep clinging to them like a leech

>>68465197
>>68465230
I kind of get it.
は is only used to bring up new topics, and が identifies the unidentified or addresses aspects of existing topics (and those topics can also be inferred or contextual because fuck you).

An example would be that you'd (almost) never use は with question-words like 何, 誰, いつ, どこ, なぜ, etc. because rarely are who/where/when/what/why actual topics.
>あなたの名前は何? (Your name is "What"?)
>>u fukken w0t m8?

So I can comprehend the distinction, but trying to internalise the concept is making my brain cry.

>>68465480
>は is only used to bring up new topics
>が identifies the unidentified or addresses aspects of existing topics
not always true

>>68465762
Thanks faggot, I thought I finally had the concept laid out but now I've got to pore over DoJG trying to grasp it again.

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>>68465087
>where do I post?
I don't know, maybe /trv/ would be a good colony.

>整数で割り切る
>Shrinking in numbers
>Divide by integer
What do you think?

>>68465480
>>あなたの名前は何? (Your name is "What"?)
>>>u fukken w0t m8?

What? There's nothing wrong with that statement

Namae wa Nani, what you just said, is a legitimate statement

question words can be used following wa. the problem is using the question word before

so

Nani wa Namae is "u fokken w0t m8", but Namae wa Nani is OK, but you'd probably rather use Nani ga Namae

>>68465945
>Thanks faggot, I thought I finally had the concept laid out but now I've got to pore over DoJG trying to grasp it again.


Do yourself a favor, australian bro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es_g8FaeMDg

Let Namasensei explain it to you

>>68465762
は< が

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>>68466143
a whole number which cannot be evenly divided by other integral numbers is a prime number, i think

他の整数で割り切れない整数は素数

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>>68465113
>>68465230
>>68465480
>>68466380
>>68466503
did you know the sentence "象は鼻が長い"?
は is not Subject marker but Topic marker

>>68466883
If that's the case, why not say "象の鼻は長い" instead?

>me: I'm hungry
>a faggot: hey Mr. Hungry, what's up?

>>68466460
Thanks, but that video doesn't really cover the eccentricities of what I'm trying to understand here. The guy says up front he fucks this up himself too.

>>68466380
Okay so first up, for clarity:
Topic - the part of a sentence about which something is said
Subject - sentence element which experiences an action, or is in a situation/state
Predicate - the part of a sentence which makes a statement about the subject
Transitive verb - A verb that requires an agent and a direct object

Anyway here's what the DoJG says about が:
1. が marks the subject the first time it's introduced. If the subject has been introduced before it becomes the topic and は is used instead.
2. Replace が with は if the subject is in contrast with another element.
3. Never use question-words with は when they are the subject
4. The subject in subordinate clauses is marked by が unless it's contrasted with something
5. When predicates are transitive adjectives, or stative transitive verbs, the direct object is marked with が

I understand 1 and 3. But the rest are flying over my head.

>Pick up a Japanese book and open to the first page
>The first sentence is 3/4 of the page in length, with probably 10 commas
Why in the name of fuck

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>>68466947
As for 'the' elephant, it has a long nose.
は show the focus (main topic) like "as for"

>>68467042
Could you read my post?

田中さんがお茶を飲みました。
↓
we can say
お茶は田中さんが飲みました。

Please explain about that

>>68466742
My post was not so specific was it? Which of the English sentences correctly translates to the Japanese sentence? Was the all translation wrong?

>>68467275
俺はおチンチンが大きい
As for my 'cock', it's very long

I think I'm getting it now.

>>68467367
>it's very long
Oh shit I'm drunk, I meant 長い

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>>68465294
I agree my fellow /int/ user! /jp/ is a really bad board and it doesn't deserve to have a thread as good as DJT. I think we should try to convince the mods to delete any further DJT that is made on /jp/

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>>68467275
*shows
>>68467367
整数で割り切る
(to be able) to be divided by other integral numbers
>>68467367
yep
very good

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>>68467275
Both those sentences say the same thing superficially.
Tanaka is the subject in both, but in the former tea is the object (Mr. Tanaka drank tea) and in the latter tea is instead the topic (eg. on the topic of Tea, Mr. Tanaka drinks it)

I don't fucking know man. I'm going to bed and seeing if maybe my brain can understand this shit tomorrow.

>>68467524
*drank it

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>>68467390
I've big Dick too
they say 膝三つ
>>68467524
watch this
http://www.nkc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/study_info/study_info01_04_j.html

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Today I studied Kanji while riding the chuo rapid line to Tokyo!

>>68467042
>2. Replace が with は if the subject is in contrast with another element.
This kind of makes が function as a "but" or a "however"
For example
バーブは学生です -> だけどジムが学生じゃない
>4. The subject in subordinate clauses is marked by が unless it's contrasted with something
Read up on subordinate clauses. There is a section in Tae Kim that explains better than I could
>5. When predicates are transitive adjectives, or stative transitive verbs, the direct object is marked with が
This is a transitive vs intransitive thing. That's something you will learn in Tae Kim as well.
電気が消えた - intransitive (the lights turned off)
電気を消した - transitive ([someone] turned off the lights)

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>>68467580
>need to read the article in order to learn japanese
>can't read the article unless you learn japanese

>>68467494
>to be divided by other integral numbers
Wow, the thought is totally different, but thanks.

>very good
俺は、おチンチンが長い Are they the same or does the thought change completely?

>>68467580
>膝三つ
I like this. It seems safer to say it within a group of innocent jap girls.

>>68467684
>need to read the article in order to learn english
>can't read the article unless you learn english

Is it possible to just use DoJG when I need to and skip textbooks like Genki all together?

>>68467816
Use Tae Kim and use DoJG as a reference.

>>68467816
You will absolutely need to know at least basic grammar or you're going to have a bad time. DoJG is a reference, not a source of information.

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I fucking can't do it.
I think I'm going to quit learning again. I just don't have the mental fortitude to keep up with this.
I feel like a weak piece of shit but even telling myself that doesn't seem to be changing my mind to continue grinding this. I'm just not seeing any progress and that's what I thrive on to continue learning.

When I learned some katakana I got a big boost in motivation since I could read a lot of random shit with minimal work put into it, but that seems to be the only thing to provide such a huge boost in progress, even if it is only placebo for the most part.

Just wanted to blog post this before stopping.
I guess I really can't learn Japanese.

>>68468661
What's getting you down? Is it that you've got so many anki reps? That you feel you're not making progress in reading or grammar? Exactly have you done, and what's getting to you, anon.

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>>68467684
>can't read the article unless you learn japanese
Japanese is a typical topic-prominent language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic-prominent_language
"A topic-prominent language is a language that organizes its syntax to emphasize the topic–comment structure of the sentence."
"Many topic-prominent languages share several syntactic features that have arisen because, in these languages, sentences are structured around topics rather than subjects and objects:"
"They often have sentences with so-called "double subjects", actually a topic plus a subject. For example, the following sentence patterns are common in topic prominent languages:
(Japanese) Sono yashi-wa happa-ga ookii.
その ヤシは 葉っぱが 大きい。
"That palm tree (topic) leaves (subject) are big.""

cf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic_and_comment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_(linguistics)

and following for German>>68467524

花子がケーキを食べた。Hanako ate a cake.

花子はケーキを食べた。
→"It was a cake that Hanako ate." / "What Hanako ate was a cake."
ケーキは花子が食べた。
→"It was Hanako who ate the cake." / "Who ate the cake was Hanako."

>>68468661
Not blogging enough.

Give a complete status report. How much do you know? How much time have you been putting into it? How have you been studying?

>>68468661

iktf

after learning hiragana/katakana and knowing them by heart and doing some anki, the grammar part got too annoying and didn't feel I was absorbing any of it.

I don't really have any motivators like raw Jap content I want to read or be able to understand.

I am thinking about starting to learn the Russian alphabet now(I'm not Russian) because slav memes are one of my favorites

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>>68468661
>>68468815
Honestly, the first jump into Japanese is the hardest. You are barraged with three entirely new alphabets and an awkward grammatical structure. It gets easier, so keep pushing forward.
諦めるな

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>>68468718
>>68468767

I got lazy on my Anki again for about a week while I played some games and I've basically forgotten a huge chunk of what I learned over a couple of days that I put a lot of hours into learning.

I knew basic stuff and by basic I mean real fucking basic. Hiragana and Katakana I have down enough that I doubt I'll forget those anytime soon.

As well as a little bit of Anki stuff (not much at all though) like days of the week and what not.

I was in the midst of learning about particles from the grammar side of things but I dunno if I've retained any of what I learned.

Just the feeling I get from opening Anki before I immediately close it lets me know that nothing I 'learn' from doing that session is going to stick. My mindset isn't going to allow it.

>>68469038
Do some Review Forgotten Cards custom studies throughout the day. As for grammar, you can read through the examples in Genki for concepts which you don't feel good about.

In fact, Krashan suggests getting multiple textbooks (for example Genki, Minna no Nihongo, and Japanese the Manga Way) and then reading through them so that you cover the same content in all three. The objective is to get as much comprehensible input as possible, so you can skip the exercises. Once you've done this for a while you can transition easily to graded readers and Yotsubato.

>>68469038
Maybe reducing your reps could do the trick.

After learning Kana I remained several years inside an endless loop of learning the same basic 80 kanji and forgetting them by the time I had the motivation to pick up my textbook again.

The solution was Anki's Core deck. I did the math and realized I could lean 6k words in 300 days - LESS THAN A YEAR!
Then I realized it wouldn't take much longer to finish Core10k and by that point I would have learned practically everything I need in terms of kanji.

The daily effort for doing 20 words a day for 1 year paled in comparison to the amount of years I've spent chasing my own tail

If you think you're overwhelmed, set it to 10 new cards a day. You can still learn the Core2k in 6 months, and that's almost half the joyo kanji.

Project about the future, instead of aimlessly studying, and perhaps you'll find yourself standing on more solid ground.

>>68469038
Time to take it easy and watch 10000 hours of anime

おはよう、DJT。

>memorizing huge chunk of words
>translating word by word
Some common beginner problems

>>68469038
Alright, let's talk about motivation. Here's the thing: you can do this.


Don't look at it in hours spent, look at it in hours saved. Every single time you expose yourself to a new word or idea you remember it more and more. Because you've forgotten it now doesn't mean what you did was wasted, the initial part of learning a new word or idea is the hardest, and unlike kana you don't get immediate gratification.


Instant gratification is one of the things that gets a lot of people when studying. Kana is easy and makes people feel they can do it, but immediately they're shut down by vocabulary and grammar. This is normal. What's important is that you understand the gratification still happens, it's just not on the same day you pick up a new word. I'd estimate that after 30 days since the introduction of a new word in Anki you'll feel you have some memory of it, and when you see the word and remember the reading and meaning you'll feel the same gratification you did with kana.

Let me talk about some things:
>Hours saved
If you find you don't have the motivation to do so many anki words every day, reduce the number. Got 30 minutes to yourself? Reduce the number to 10. In 2 years you'll have covered all 6k words in the basic deck, if you put off learning AGAIN you'll be behind. Anki cannot be skipped for more than one day every so often, so do not stop it, reduce the load to make it manageable. Fuck, reduce it to 5 words a day if you need to but don't feel bad or give up. Every day you do 5 words is 5 words you don't have to remember when you feel like diving back in to more serious study. The repetition will develop it into a habit and once you've gotten to the stage where you remember some words each day has some gratification. < That is important, when you get past the first month every day of anki has small self gratification.

cont...

>>68469038
>>68469640
>Learning Grammar
If you feel overwhelmed by learning grammar, take a break. Stop it, just leave it by the wayside for a week or two. This is not a race and you can learn at your own pace. If you read 1 chapter of tae kim a fortnight who cares, that's your pace. If you don't remember something just revise it quickly later on. It's not something you need to drill into your memory because unlike vocabulary, you'll encounter the same grammar patterns much more consistently.

>Study Methods
Neurons that fire together, wire together.
If you can make your study more efficient you'll feel better about it. Read aloud words, JP to EN to JP. Do revision of forgotten words with custom study. Write out words you find confusing using rote learning. These things take very, very little time but have huge rewards in terms of retention.

>Pick the right time to study
The best time to study is after you've moved your body, say light exercise, and after you've had some carbs to feed your brain. Don't put it off, just get it out of the way early and eventually that will become part f your routine; a habit.


>TLDR
>Don't stop anki, reduce your load to 10, or even just 5 words
>Drop grammar until you feel motivated, no need to rush
>Be more active in your study, be honest with yourself in anki and try a few supplemental study methods to boost retention
>Study early after breakfast/chores
And most of all
>It's not a race, do it at your own pace

Don't give up man, just slow down. You've come this far, so why stop now?

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>>68469399
>>68469640
>>68469672
>>68469261
Alright alright. I'll stick with it a bit longer to see if anything improves. I don't think I can deal with learning a bunch of kanji only to forget what every single one of them means right after investing a ton of hours into learning them though.
I practically studied so much last week that I was getting headaches the following days.

I dunno if I can allow myself to cut down on words per day either though, I absolutely need to get to the stage in which I can at least somewhat read stuff in Japanese asap otherwise my interest will plummet yet again. I know how I tick and even if that's some unrealistic expectations, that's definitely what will end up happen. It's why I drop basically everything I try to learn, unfortunately.

Thanks though for the words of encouragement.

Would doing Anki 6k (20-30 words a day) + the multiple grammar thing recommended here >>68469261 be an ideal way to spend my days studying?

Don't ever underestimate the power of motivation guys. My lack of having any are why I cannot stick with any new thing I try to learn. Truly the worst thing to have none of.

>>68470725
If that's the case, how about doing 10 new words a day in Core6k and mine-reading some baby-easy manga in parallel with that - 10~20 words a day?

>>68470934
Forgot to add - I'm an Ankidrone, but before finishing the Core6k I couldn't read much without feeling overwhelmed. I preferred the slow-cooking approach and only started after that, but I wouldn't do anything other than Anki - reading grammar made me want to stop.

Now I'm more prepared to doing it, and the ones I did learn through headaches and whatnot have now rested in my brain for long enough that reviewing them is painless.

>>68470725
>Would doing Anki 6k (20-30 words a day) + the multiple grammar thing recommended here >>68469261 be an ideal way to spend my days studying?
A fair warning, for every 10 new cards per day you can expect around 30 minutes of study on anki alone with reps and being honest about what you actually do remember.

For 30 cards, some days you could be doing anki only for an hour and a half, so break it up and do multiple short bursts, say half hour each.


>I dunno if I can allow myself to cut down on words per day either though, I absolutely need to get to the stage in which I can at least somewhat read stuff in Japanese asap otherwise my interest will plummet yet again.
Learning grammar is quicker than learning words, there is less of it and you'll be exposed to it more. I recommend what the other anon mentioned on grammar. Instead of learning a new point every day, learn the same grammar point from difference perspectives and resources. By the time you've gotten enough vocabulary to read you'll be well past basic grammar.

Also
>I practically studied so much last week that I was getting headaches the following days.
Don't do this.

You need to be long term focused, as bullshit as it is. "Knowing how you tick" and submitting to it is setting yourself up for failure, you'll burn out again. Do not go into it thinking you can rush to a place where you can start reading, because by doing that you will never get there.

What happened every other attempt you made to learn Japanese, why did you give up? I bet I know the answer, you got burnt out and gave up because the results weren't fast enough or the work was too much. You need to change your expectations and approach.

>>68465087
Post on /a/, this injustice can not stand.

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>>68470934
>>68471014
Maybe I'll stick with 20 then and if it really does feel overwhelming I'll bump it down to 10-15
I wonder how long it'll be before I can read the likes of Non Non Biyori manga...apparently that's supposed to be real easy.


>>68471170
>What happened every other attempt you made to learn Japanese, why did you give up?
I learned the Kana (although I rushed through learning them every other time and as such didn't know the alternate versions to each one such as ふ, ぶ, ぷ etc, or hell, even the the whole interaction that the smaller つ had as well as a bunch of other stuff) and then stopped at the Anki phase every single time because of how much things slow down, so yes you basically hit the nail on the head with your prediction.

If I studied at a reasonable pace each day, then realistically when can I expect to be able to read some basic stuff?
The fucking problem is, I unfortunately want to learn for a few games in particular right now (though I obviously want to learn for more than just that) that I'd like to play which won't be receiving a translation more than likely, and said games are said to even give native speakers issues from what I've heard, and hearing stuff like that just discourages me completely, because if native speakers are having trouble with it then what fucking hope do I have?
Unless the people that said that stuff are just chatting shit, which I hope they are.

>>68470725
But first, can you stop posting sluts?

>>68471704
I'm the Brazilian above, 10 months in my case to start with some silly yonkoma (NNB-tier).

If you really put yourself to it, though, some people are able to enjoy some simpler content in 2 months and read decently after 6.

I have a friend who doesn't know any kanji at all and is able to read anything as long as he can hover the mouse and get a rikaisama definition for it. Obviously, he only studied grammar.

It's not a path I would recommend following, just giving you some insight on how you can read even if you don't know kanji - the difference is you should mine them once you encounter them so you don't become my friend.

東京に一度行った事がある。しかし、時間が少なかったので、東京にしか行けなかったり、5日間しか泊まれなかった。

Is this sentence fine?

>>68472597
First word was meant to be 日本 by the way.

>>68472597
I think しか行けなかったし is better.

>>68465113
は is compatible with zero-argument verbs, like "rains". "It's raining today" uses a dummy subject in english, "it". The actual topic is "today".

In japanese this would be equivalent to "todayはrainる"

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>>68473656
しかし、時間がなかったので、東京だけしか行かれなかったし、5日間しか泊まれなかった
>>68473551
行けなかった
の
行ける
は
本来
行かれる
で

この場合
「行かれなかったし」
が正しい

これはラ抜き言葉として、使うべきではないとされる

言いにくい場合は
「行くことができなかったし」
とすればよい

ただし、外人向けの日本語の教科書には
可能動詞として載せられていることは知っています。
>>68473656
todayはrain(が降る)?
>with zero-argument verbs
本来の国文法では、「は」は係助詞とされます。
これは、必ず、終止形の動詞を文末にとるいうことです。
ただし、「係助詞」の説明は、日本語の古文読解のレベルまで達しなければ必要ありません。
http://www.geocities.jp/nm3032nakatsu/koten/kt02.html

>>68474410
>todayはrain(が降る)?
"Raining" is the first english example that I thought of, but japanese doesn't have a verb "raining", it says something like "rain falls". Maybe it wasn't the best example.

今日は雨が降る (as a verbal phrase) or 今日は雨です (as a state of being)

>本来の国文法では、「は」は係助詞とされます。
>これは、必ず、終止形の動詞を文末にとるいうことです。
>ただし、「係助詞」の説明は、日本語の古文読解のレベルまで達しなければ必要ありません。
Very interesting!

Can't believe you guys convinced me not to give up, I wasn't expecting that. I thought all that Anki stuff I forgot would take the same amount of grueling hours to relearn as I put into it the first time, but I actually got all of the stuff I forgot stuck in my head after only a few tries.

Thanks guys!

>>68474410
>この場合
>「行かれなかったし」
>が正しい

これこそが本物の日本語か

>>68476476
高齢者の使うどこかの方言だと思ってた

>>68477943
調べてみればその通りみたいですね
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1415570074
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q102865415

役に立たないヤツだな、パンツ屋さんは

>>68474625
がんばって anon!

日本には一度行ったが東京に五泊しただけだった。

>>68471704
To give an exampIe, I just started reading yotsubato regularly about a week ago with just over 2000 words, acquired over about 3 months at 20 words a day. That seems to be enough to get through a chapter and mine only about 10 words, which along with furigana and the vocab list is pretty breezy. It also fits very nicely with my new anki mode of 10 new words from core and 10 from mining, although I'm still not sure if that was the right idea.

Can anybody tell me if there's a shortcut key combination to go from typing with English characters to Japanese ones fast?

>>68481162
alt+shift if you're using Windows IME.

>>68481292
Thanks a lot anon, that's exactly what I was looking for.
Would there happen to be an easy way to switch between Hiragana to Katakana as well?

>>68481591
alt+capslock

You could just google this shit

>>68476476
ちょーっち

ふるめかしさは

いなめないよ

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カレー?
よろしいならば戦争だ

I've started reading through Hanahira but I have to look up most of the words I find, the words I don't recognize are either N3 words or are too small for me to recognize until I put themintoJisho where they are bigger. The font size in Hanahira isn't small so I think I'm just not very good at recognizing them, will I get better at recognizing kanji at smaller sizes later on or should I try to sort this problem out now? I don't have this problem with Yotsuba but that's probably because of the furigana. [spoiler]Does this sort of thing belong in the /jp/ thread? It looks like some of the people here don't like anything related to anime.[/spoiler]

First time translating, how is this?

眠らない夜の街
ざわめく光の洪水
通り色どる女
着飾る心と遊ぶ

Sleeping at night in the street
Noisy is the lights beam
On the street, color, money, and women
Dressing up with their spirits and having a good time

I haven't finished Tae's guide yet but I thought it would be a good idea to start reading asap. I know I made many mistakes but could anyone correct me?

Context: first verses of https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2QuYQEFEeKU

>>68483681
The more you read the better you'll get, just keep going and you'll get over it. And yes VNs and spoiler tags are both better suited to /jp/.

>>68472597
It is as follows in the case of a part with the exception of the problem of potential verb.
In the first place, たり is a part of set phrase of '~たり、~たり' for example '学校に行ったり病院に行ったりした'. Therefore 'たし' is better.
In the second place, I guess the reason why you use 'なかったし' is for the purpose of a past sentence.
Though, it is not required that it is strict in Japanese. Therefore that conjunction can use 'て' and so on.
東京にしか行けなくて、(また)5日間しか泊まれなかった。
東京にしか行けず、(また)5日間しか泊まれなかった。

>>68483681
>It looks like some of the people here don't like anything related to anime.
It's the opposite. People here don't care, but if you post something that isn't VNs or anime on /jp/DJT, they complain

>>68483805
>First time translating, how is this?
Horrendous. Seriously. You shouldn't be translating stuff at that stage, let alone lyrics of all things. It's good that you want to read stuff, but you do not want to start with what's virtually a poem. Pick an easy manga, children's book or something like that.

>>68483805
It's shit.

>眠らない夜の街
Sleepless nights in the city,
>ざわめく光の洪水
A flood of bustling lights,
>通り色どる女
Painted women passing by,
>着飾る心と遊ぶ
Frolicking with their hearts beautifully dressed up

And normally with lyrics you would want to make the number of syllables roughly match so that it flows better with the music but I can't be assed. I just wanted to show you that you didn't even understand what you were reading.

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>>68485276
ごめんあさい

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>どうして日本語を勉強しているの?

What do I say?

>>68485761
中出しされる事の気持ちいい
or maybe
中出しされる事の喜び

Up to you, really

>>68485761
日本の独自文化~ザ・EROSU~

>>68485761
>日本人の妻が欲しいのです
>まだ訳されてないエロゲーが読みたいのです
>侍になりたいのです

>>68486203
>侍になりたいのでござる
直してあげた

>>68483805
Sorry for my less knowledge of English.

日本語としては以下。

N.Y. is called 'The city that never sleeps'.
Therefore, how is 'the night streets that never sleeps'?

通り色どる女→通りを彩る女性
色どる is changed from 彩る by author's opinion.
How is 'women who colors the street.'?

Taeko Onuki is good.

I don't know much about foreign country's lyrics.
Though, in Japanese, it is often required to translate to common Japanese first in the case of song's lyrics.
That is similar to tanka or haiku of ancient poem.

>>68486523
>>68485449
Hey guys thanks for the responses and sorry for shitting up the thread. I'm two weeks in and feel like I've learned so much, but really I know nothing. At what Anki stage should I start with children's books?

What would be the equivalent of the English phrase "[insert name] deserves a medal" in Japanese?

>>68486917
[insert name]に中出しの喜びを与えるべし

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>>68486913
I think your translation is free translation and poetic.
Those show the scene of lyrics actually.
I only said my opinion from my view point.
But picture books are interesting also.

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How does one even type し° on accident?

>>68488318
し゚らない

>>68488318
The same way someone types t'his on accident. Do you not know how nip keyboards work?

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There is a lot of Kanji in the Japanese language!

We must study hard!

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>>68488318
impossible

Should I be bothering with the 2k_6k_10k further optimized deck? I can't find the images for the deck, and I think some of the cards are wrong.

One of the cards has 日as Japan. I thought Japan was 日本.

わたしはにほんじんではありません

Breaking this down

私 は にほんじん で は ありません

The subject changes twice in this sentence? the second は is used instead of a ka? can someone explain this

also, せん is a different way of negation other than using じゃない?

>>68490655
You sound like you're at the level where you should be memorizing how to say "Where is the post office?" out of your college text book, not breaking down sentences and grammatical structures.

Read Tae Kim and come back.

>>68490655
There is only one subject: 私. The second では serves one grammatical function. か is completely unrelated. In this instance, it is used along with ありません to indicate a negative.

ではありません is just a polite way of saying じゃない.
じゃ→では
ある→あります
ない→ありません

>>68490629
Just do the 6k optimised deck linked in the op guide. Once you're done that you can mine words. Images are a meme, don't bother.

>>68490867
Thnx. What order should I re-position the deck so the cards come up by frequency of use?

>>68490931
It's already optimised so use "Show new cards in order added"

>>68491030
Thanks. Do you recommend any decks to drill with the 6k core deck? I'm going to use Tae Kim for grammar, do you think it's worth it drilling the decks in the guide related to his material?

>>68491080
I personally do not drill grammar, I just read up a little or revise some grammar patterns each day, or try and do some reading. If you find you struggle to differentiate some kanji when you encounter them maybe try doing a radicals deck to help (something like 200~ cards, nothing really).

If later down the line you feel like you want more grammar exposure perhaps pick up a deck for the DoJG series, but for now just start with core 6k and tae kim/Japanese the Manga Way/Yotsuba reading pack.

>>68490806
i do one chapter of tae kim a day

i'm not gonna halt my learning over it though

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>>68471185

>>68467880
>DoJG is a reference, not a source of information.
That's the stupidest thing I've read all week, congrats.

>>68491080
>Do you recommend any decks to drill with the 6k core deck?
Yes, try this:
http://dojgdeck.neocities.org/
https://mega.nz/#F!2g5gHISQ!RIYvs3pHnsX1ibK3yBRvxQ

I feel like this thread has a higher average IQ than the other one.

>>68489935
わざわざ画像作ったの

すごいなお前

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>>68467580
>>68467681
>>68468739
Me again:
Nope, I still don't get it.

I tried doing those easy-as-shit exercises Tae Kim has after his first chapter on particles and I got them wrong following the DoJG rules.
I get what grammatical function は and が serve, but maybe differentiating their usage is something I should leave until later and try to understand through immersion.

>>68492735
With you in this thread, I highly doubt it

>>68492816
I wouldn't worry about the last three right now, since those are covered in a future section.

Should I wait until tae kim is finished to start mining core decks?

Given it takes about 2 months to clear tae kim, that seems like such a long time to put off vocab.

>>68493146
I'd suggest doing them concurrently.
Take Kim chapters take like half an hour to blow through. What else are you doing with your time otherwise?

>>68493010
Fuck it, I'll just continue on and hope I get it eventually.
Thanks.

What things are the most common words said differently by females? I read about suffixes that only females trying to sound cute use somewhere.

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I took the N1 last week - won't know results until later but pretty sure I passed it easily.

However, my Japanese is still shit.

JLPT was good for goalposts, though. Any tests above JLPT that are good for new goal-setting? Is the BJT any good? Could set J1+ as next goal. What other respected tests are there?

Conversation I had with friend, thought i'd share because it's DJT related

Him: 問題ない
Me: ない=じゃない?
Him: インストール完了したらハンゲームの大富豪でテストしてみよう
Me: はいはい
Him: 僕が気にしてないということです
Him: ドンマイドンマイということです

Me: はい、わかりです。
あれ文法の質問です
例えば
問題じゃない = 問題ない?
いいですか?

Him: 日本語はちょっと言い方を変えるだけでいろんな意味に取られます

Me: うん、きっときっと。
Him:
問題じゃないはその人が決めた言葉
問題じゃない?は相手に問い掛ける言葉
だから同じ意味では無い

Me: そうか。

Kinda weird learning japanese grammar using japanese.

>>68493726
Get a perfect score in N1 instead of a barely passing score

>>68493726
>Any tests above JLPT that are good for new goal-setting? Is the BJT any good? Could set J1+ as next goal. What other respected tests are there?

EJU if you plan on attending nip university

Kentei 1 if you're a fucking masochist

if you get either of the above and get a certificate nobody in the workforce will ever question your japanese proficiency, but a JLPT N1 alone is not sufficient enough for that. you'll need something more.

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>>68493896
That's boring, though, and pretty sure I'll get around 150/180 this time around anyway, squeezing out a few more points isn't much motivation.

>>68494045
I'm a masochist, so Kentei looks good, thanks. Time to see which level I should start at on this new ladder.

What is the best way to use the DoJG Anki deck? When should I hit "again" versus "good" or "easy," and when/how often/how many times should I read the lesson on the back of the card?

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>>68494568
ru- and u-verbs
>if it ends in u it's a u-verb
okay, easy
>if it ends in ru it can be either a u or ru-verb
okay, fair enough, exceptions exist in English
>if the vowel-sound preceding the る is an a/u/o it's a u-verb; if it's an i/e it's -usually0 a ru-verb
....oka-, wait what?

入る has an i sound = ru verb
>HAHA, WRONG
喋る has an e sound = ru verb
>HAHA, WRONG
切る has an i sound = ru verb
>HAHA, WRONG
帰る has an e sound = ru verb
>HAHA, WRONG

Is Tae Kim deliberately trying to fuck with me? This is supposed to be basic grammar and he's already throwing me a million exceptions. There's already a separate list for exception verbs, yet half the verbs in his little categorisation exercise break the i/e = ru rule.

>>68495259
Sorry, didn't mean to quote.

>>68495259
For those verbs you just have to remember what kind they are.

Once you become more familiar with the conjugations it becomes easier.

>帰った
sounds correct
>帰た
what the fuck is this

>>68495259
Eventually you can conjugate them without thinking. If you asked me I wouldn't be able to tell you how to differentiate them as you just know from doing them a lot. Obviously you should use the rules in the beginning until you get familiar with them, but it won't take long until you won't have to

>>68495385
>>68495626
Yeah I'm kinda getting that impression.
Doing the negative/past verb conjugation exercises at the moment, and I've heard most of the correct versions before in anime so stuff like 来る = こない kind of just "sounds better" (if you get what I mean) and overall seems much more intuitive than that earlier lesson on categorising verbs led on.

This is probably smalltime compared to the bullshit in English too, so I should probably quit whinging.

>>68493752
That conversation is not understandable for me also.
Your question is as follows?
「Does 'ない' means 'じゃない'?」

His explanation for that is as follows?
'問題じゃない' is a speaker's opinion.
'問題じゃない?' is a speaker's question.

What are you talking about?

>>68493726
>What other respected tests are there?
no test is respected more than actual speaking skill

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>>68478817
可能動詞という考え方があるというのは>>68474410でも書いている
さすがに、「読める」を「読めれる」にせよとまでは言わない
ただ、動詞により、かなり差があり
「行ける」はむしろ乱れた若者言葉という感じで
あくまでも口語表現という印象

例えば
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~QM4H-IIM/k000304.htm
また
http://nhg.pro.tok2.com/reserch-3/reserch1-142.htm

確かに、少なくなっているが、「行かれる」は今も多用される表現であり、書き言葉、正式なアナウンスなどで用いられることは知っておいてほしい。

僕は、「行ける」は話し言葉でしか使わない。

>>68493752
問題じゃない is shorting of 問題ではない in Tokyo dialect

例えば、別れの言葉の「それでは」が関東以北では「それじゃ」となり、更に「じゃ-」
関西では、「そんなら」→「ほんなら」→「ほな」
「では」を「じゃ」に短縮するのは横浜弁だと思つさていたら静岡辺りでも使うらしい

標準語だと思っているものが、しつは東京弁だというのは意外と多い。

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>>68493752
>>68496522
相手に、問いかける場合、語尾を上げるのは、アフリカを除く全ての言語に共通する特徴だという。

「問題ではない↑」と語尾を上げるのは「問題でないか」という表現と意味は同じ。
同様に
「問題じゃない↑」と語尾を上げるのは「問題じゃないか」という表現と意味は同じ。

you see?

>>68497063
https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%81%84%E3%81%8B%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B
And keep in your mind 3 & 4.

How do you study vocabulary effectively?

I had been using flashcards, anki, but they usually provide one or two words as a translation of a word that I've seen used in several contexts which can be quite different.

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>>68497063
>問題ではない

Can one say 問題はない? And if that's possible, what is the difference between the two?
Would 問題はない be more of a straight up "there is/are no problem(s)" whereas 問題ではない is more like "that's no problem/that won't be a problem" with respect to some verb/action?

では just trips me up.

それでは

>>68497406
問題ではない・問題じゃない - It's not a problem.
問題はない - There's no problem.

Just my swing on it. Probably wrong.

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>>68497063
*実は
>>68497270
wikiだから正しいとは限らないよ
更に4の「いかれる」は自発てあって可能ではない
今、話題になっているのは可能の「いかれる」
その辺の区別がつかなれば君の頭が「いかれ」ている

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~QM4H-IIM/k000304.htm

『旅行に行かれる時間が欲しい(Tokyo FM「FMソフィア」岩瀬恵子 1999.09.29 02:00)』

『また、イスラム教徒にとって宗教的行事の最中に死ねば、良い日に神に召されたこととなり、“この世の悪魔”と戦う聖戦(ジハード)に参加しているときに死ぬのは最良の日の死で、直接天国に行かれる、と教えられる。(毎日新聞 1996.06.05 p.2)』

『同じ事を繰り返して言ってぼける前に早くおいでよ(笑い)。こっちは好きな時代を選んで生きていかれるんだよ。この間、渥美清は奈良時代に行くと言っていたよ。淡谷さんは三内丸山が賑やかな時代に帰るって……。(週刊朝日 1999.12.24 p.59〔永六輔・三途の川辺で〕)』

『「でも、今年は二の酉の日にパーティがあって、行かれなくなりそうだから」(小林信彦『ムーン・リヴァーの向こう側』新潮文庫 1998.09.01初版 p.106)』

「して行かれる」というように補助動詞としての表現があり、簡単に可能の「行ける」が「行かれる」に置き換わることはないと思う。
>>68497406
では=格助詞「で」+係助詞「は」
問題ではない→「問題だ」ということではない→it is not that it is a problem
( that often implies it is no matter if it is a problem or not)
→It is not a problem.
cf
問題ない often implies we have no problem about it (for us)

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>>68479675

どうだった?期待に応えた?5泊でも足りるのか?

>>68490655

What >>68490807 said and also you should not be too surprised when there are two は in a sentence. Most often it's because of common expressions like 実は and 今日は but things like 俺(に)は日本語で文を作るのはよくできない are fair game.

>>68497774
>問題ではない→「問題だ」ということではない
良い説明です
ありがとうパンツ屋さん

>>68497383
stop using J-E dictionaries

>>68497774
>その辺の区別がつかなれば君の頭が「いかれ」ている
そういうネガティブな意味を併せ持つ語彙を外人さんに教えるのは如何なもんかね

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>>68498143
いかれているんじゃなイカ?

>>68498412
水上げの直後は透明じゃないんじゃなイカ

死後硬直が解けると透明になるんじゃなイカ

>>68498412
>可能の「いかれる」と自発の「いかれる」を取り違えるのはいかれた奴だけ
君の読者を信頼しているわけだ
なら俺も4ちゃん利用者諸兄のネット・リテラシーを信頼しよう

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>>68498412
あれ
消されている
つうことで
これを貼っておこう
>>68498412
あり絵ごと消されている
つうことで
http://desuarchive.org/int/thread/68464846/#q68498412

which thread has less brs

>>68490629
日 = Nipo
Get your shit together, 米.

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えらべ

>>68468661
I felt just like you. It took me over half a year to learn all jlpt grammar but now things got a lot easier considering I only have to focus on vocab and reading. Stick to it and you'll make it. Just don't waste time on [spoiler]anki.[/spoiler]

How long should it take to learn Kana?
I am learning Katakana and Hiragana at the same time and after 2.5 weeks I am on the M* column of this shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kana#Hiragana_and_katakana

Also how careful do I have to be when writing? I'm doing correct stroke order, but I'm not sure how much I should be practicing to get the right form/scale/ratio etc and I can't really find any good handwriting examples online so I'm just copying computer fonts (though noting differences between computer fonts and handwriting i.e in さ).
I'd rather do it properly now than to start off writing with bad habits.

>>68500909
>How long should it take to learn Kana?
A week

>>68500975
fuufuu bergele
Only foreign script I have learnt before was Serbian Cyrillic and all in all it only took 45 minutes, so yeah I feel like I am progressing slowly here.
Then again I haven't made time for active practice until a few days ago as I have been busy with schoolwork, now I am doing 1 column per day instead.

But how much should I be practicing writing if I want "nice" handwriting? What do Japanese even consider to be aesthetic handwriting?

>>68501065
>how much should I be practicing writing if I want "nice" handwriting?
As much as you have time to spend on it.

Most people here don't bother with handwriting since it's not required to be able to read Japanese or understand spoken Japanese

On the topic of handwriting, does hand written proficiency come up in the JLPT or any other tests?

>>68501820
Not on JLPT. It's entirely multiple choice on bubble sheets.

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>>68500673
京都がない

>>68501320
I have as much time as I want, but I'm wondering what priority I should give it.
I don't want to study Japanese for years, then go to Japan and write something in Japanese and have it be unintelligible.

The written language is actually what attracts me to Japanese, Kanji seems fun, though I don't like Kana since it doesn't have the logographic aspect.

>>68501843
>Bubble multiple choice
Oh? I got the impression it had a reading/response question for some reason. That's good to know.

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>>68500673
明らか関西と兵庫の限りです。ミニスカートの女の人と見れば目梅毒をひくかもよ。けどね、おしゃれじゃない、その二つ制服、もしあの玄人達の服装を倣えの方多分いいよ。スカートの長さだけを保つ。

>>68501820
>On the topic of handwriting, does hand written proficiency come up in the JLPT or any other tests?

JLPT: no

EJU: yes

Kentei: yes

>>68502259
ロングスカートとか売ってねえから

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>>68502503
ほら、選ぶ。北海度あベストと思います。

>>68496522
I was wondering if the ない he put at the end of 問題 was a shortened version of じゃない or if that meant something completely different

問題ない means "No problem", so wouldn't that be the exact same meaning as 問題じゃない?

>>68502682
ほっかいどう

影まで書いてるじゃん

さては買う気だね

いっしきそろえると10まんちかくするらしいよ

>>68502747
じゃ is literally the same thing as では though.

>>68502747
When I say 問題ない, I usually mean "it's okay by me." i.e. "the problem doesn't exist."
On the other hand, I usually say (それは)問題じゃない to mean "that's not an issue" or "that's not something we should concern about."

>>68502747
ない -> ある
じゃない -> です

Any tips on production practice for people with social anxiety? I've been neglecting production for years now. I can't even hold a basic conversation and my comprehension is just waaay ahead which makes it even more frustrating when I can't say the simplest stuff.

>>68504392
Use hellotalk or Lang8
I was terrified at first and ended up deleting hellotalk when I first talked to someone but you get used to it. Now I run into the problem of getting bored talking to nip normies.
Lang8 is great if you just want to write and be corrected.

>>68502747
Both of those mean the opposite of 問題.
What I was worry about was he answered the meaning of '?'(question mark) to your question.

'問題ない' is an abbreviation for '問題はない'.
That is a bit different from '問題ではない'.
Those subjects are different.The latter is (それは)問題ではない.
The former: There is not 問題.
The latter: That is not 問題.

>>68504392
lower your standards and stop trying to make complex sentences

a messed up transitive/intransitive verb is nothing compared to eight seconds of you going "uhhhh ehhhh"

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>>68504584
>hate soccer
>"Nice, my new Lang-8 partner is on right now"
>"anon-ちゃん、クリスティアーノ・ロナウドしってる?!"
>mfw
That was way before I turned into a mentally unstable train wreck.
I'll try Lang-8 for the corrections. I don't really know what to write about though.

>>68504976
My production is even worse than that.

at which chapter of tae kim will I be able to read children books?

>>68504584
>HelloTalk
I don't have a normiephone and I don't want to talk with the kind of demographic that uses this kind of shit. Any desktop alternatives?

>>68505158
Get your shit together, マヌエル君, I had an okay conversation once that started out as MMA talk, you just have to indulge the subject a bit without faking interest - the topic will shift from there.

Be thankful they are even talking about something that is not hawaayuu aimu fain sankyu macdonarudo no pet.

Why are you guys still here? The threads are allowed now on /jp/, come over.

>>68505788
Lang8, but not nearly as many cute nip girls on there.

>>68506209
This thread is better desu

How do you deal with having to add cards to your mining deck faster than you can introduce them?
If you just go through adding everything and let time sort it out then you will inevitably end up making duplicate cards, because you won't remember having added something. It seems like the best solution then is just to stop adding words once you've made a couple of days' backlog, but when people talk about having thousands of words waiting in their mining deck it's obvious that that's not what they're doing. What's your method?

>>68506419
Do you use rikai or Epwing2Anki?
It detects duplicates for you.

>>68506419
I don't mine, but I would never add past my daily quota so that doesn't happen.
There is no difference between stacking 1923882937 words from reading and doing a pre-made deck, since both will eventually be dettached from the experience of learning as you read the words in context.

>>68506542
See this guy? This is someone who will never be able to learn Japanese.

This might only be tangentially related, but as of a week or so ago my rikaichan has stopped working and I have no idea what to do. I've reinstalled both it and the library file a bunch of times, but I really don't feel like reinstalling and losing all of my firefox configurations. Is there some kind of known bug that's been introduced in a recent patch?
Right now when I click the icon, it plays the generic "press" animation but doesn't change its icon to show that it's activated, and of course doesn't allow me to use any of its functionality.

>>68506470
Rikai. OK still, even if that isn't an issue, I feel like a get a little +1 bonus to retention power if I can actually remember the situation where the word came up. Reversing the new card order (so that the most recently added cards are introduced first) might retain that, but then you would be getting all the rarest words first which is certainly not ideal. If you could somehow reverse the new card order and then have a system where when you attempt to add a duplicate word, it instead moves that word to the front of the queue, that would be perfect.

How do I add cute girls who will show me their daily routines on LINE?

>>68506726
If you are using Rikai, you can add the sentence where you get the word from whenever you mine it.

>>68506671
Whenever it broke for me, I always ended up restarting my computer and that got it working.
Though you said its been a week, you may have already tried it.

>>68506873
Yeah, I turn off my computer every time I go to bed so that's not the issue.

Just wondering, does Japan have any Tranny laws like USA/what do Japs think of them?

>>68506796
That's probably great for LNs or VNs, but right now I am reading yostubato and adding words from the vocab list, and I don't really feel like typing all that shit out manually for every single word. Perhaps this is why people here generally seem to prefer VNs to manga.
Given all that there still seems to be no reason not to use the second method, which also has the advantage of creating a slight bias towards more common words, so much as it offends my autism I think that is how I will proceed.

>>68506632
Okay, Fritz, let me rephrase it to comply with ISO certified brains: I don't mine YET.

>>68505788
>Get your shit together, マヌエル君
>hawaayuu aimu fain sankyu macdonarudo no pet
LMAO

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>>68507000
日本には、まだ、そのような法律はありません
戸籍法が改正されて、性転換は認められるようになりましたが、同性婚等は認められていません
There is not such a law yet in Japan
The Family Register Law was revised to accept sex change, but things like gay marriage etc are not permitted

>>68506671
Stop updating shit automatically and suddenly all your shit won't stop working

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>普通の男のように話したい
>かわいい女子のアニメを見てやゲームやってばっかりなので 時々女性のように話して気がする
「わ」と「あたし」なんか使わないけど 多分「よ」と「ね」を使ってすぎて

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>>68509497
うらやましい。。。

>>68465113
Had me confused for a while too. The way I understood it was that が is used as a generic identifier such as "the" or "a" when not the topic, whereas は is used in a much broader sense that identifies what the whole topic of conversation is about.

For example, in English our sentences are structured in a parent/child like fashion (for want of a better description). If I say "the fish kicked the bird", the Topic is "the fish" (because it's first in order) and what "the fish" is doing, all clauses are children of "the fish". In Japanese the topic is marked by は(although the topic always comes first anyway because everything before the はis considered the topic) and all other clauses in the sentence are relating to it.
So in our example sentence "bird" is not the topic (it's the object in English) but still needs to be identified as a grammatical subject or object and so is marked by が.

Or at least that's my limited understanding of it.

>>68510739
English doesn't have topics, unless you want to compare it to a title or subtitle. So your example would be more like:
The Fish
It kicked the bird.

When I get confused by が I normally try and imagine turning an "a" or "an" into a "the" or "it", so making the statement fulfil a specific role rather than being just a general statement.

>>68467681
>For example
>バーブは学生です -> だけどジムが学生じゃない
Isn't that because Barb is already the topic? Sure the second half is sentence in it's own right, but it's subordinate to the already established topic. Jim is being contrasted to Barb, but that still leaves Barb as the topic and doesn't require any special rule when giving Jim a particle.
Therefore
>This kind of makes が function as a "but" or a "however"
is not relevant if it's even true.

>>68511594
Perhaps, I just wrote down the first thing that came to my head that felt contrasting, and I also tried to make it as simple as possible so he could understand.
If you have a better example then go for it.

what level would the spicy wolf light novels be considered?

Advanced beginner? Low intermediate?

>>68512179
I'd say intermediate to upper intermediate. Definitely not advanced beginner though.

>>68469038
The problem with just anki is that you are trying to learn and retain stuff out of any context. Not only is that difficult, it's "almost" worthless.

It kinda helps in that you find it easier to relearn in the future, but doesn't matter if you forget stuff now since vocab is of little use to you until you actually need it (i.e. reading). My plan is to only really other learning vocab that I'm going to be using to study the grammar (TK in my case); once I'm comfortable enough with that, I intend to read and mine vocab from that since it's much easier to memorise vocab that you are actually using, especially if you are using it on a regular basis.

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>>68512179
>>68512399
>advanced beginner
I know what you are trying to say with this but I find the oxymoron amusing.
Is it like, a beginner, who is experienced at being a beginner?

At age 12 I was watching an anime that had a very remarkable opening.

The opening was about 2 minutes, it was a cute little girl singing a song, and in the chorus she kept saying "Yahoo!"

And the music was about 5 or 6 chords.

Does anyone know the anime / the music? Save my nostalgia, please. Thank you.

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>>68513790
Sho-shoganaiwanee anon-kun

here you go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfO--a9tjFs

No need to thank me

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今年は雪多いという｡｡

https://twitter.com/Tastemade_japan/status/807420354738032640

>>68509497
I would rather speak like a little girl than speak like those HORRRRA DAZEEE YOSHA IKUZEEJANEEEZEEE guys.

But yeah, if possible, try to watch some male and not teen content to learn a more proper language. Video-classes, documentaries narrated by males.
Don't go for News though, journalistic lingo is always shitty.

>>68502747
As I understand it:
ない= verb
じゃない= declarative
The former means "does not exist", the latter means "isn't".

By the way, じゃない is interpreted as three diffrent meanings by the context and the accent/intonation.

AはBじゃない = A isn't B.
AはBじゃない? = A is B, isn't it?
AはBじゃない = A is B, isn't it? (have more confidence than above)

Three じゃない have different accents/intonations.

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Remember: If you have the choice between being the hare or the tortoise, be the tortoise. Language learning is a slow marathon that takes time, quality work, and patience.

Even if you're able to sprint through much material in a short time, is that rate sustainable? Will it lead to burnout? Even the slowest of paces is better than sprinting and burning out repeatedly, not only for your progress, but for your mental state as well.

Persistence is the greatest virtue when learning a language and the path of the tortoise lends itself to that the easiest.

>>68515032
No, let the anon become a trap.

好きな諺は何ですか

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>>68517179
Are you saying its alright if I learn only 10 new words a day?

>>68517800
I'm saying to avoid burnout at all costs. If doing 10 a day is the rate that lets you be consistent instead, then yes.

I am using Jisho to look at Kanji in order to not get bored as fuck with Kana alone (t. beginner, I am almost finished Kana) but I don't know where I am supposed to look on the Kanji pages to see which reading is most relevant.

For example here http://jisho.org/search/%E5%9B%BD%20%23kanji
I know that "koku" is most relevant, or at least that is the reading I have seen on previous contexts of note, but it doesn't seem to state that anywhere.

I read about Kanji of course, that is what made me want to learn Japanese, so I know that mostly it is Kun reading if it single Kanji and likely On if it's compound Kanji, but there are exceptions to those rules.
How to tell which ones to learn? Or just learn them all?

>>68517179
Nothing wrong with being a hare - but don't sleep before the race is over!

>>68518096
Either learn kanji without readings (only meanings and radicals, like in RTK) or skip to learning vocabulary - those will teach you all the readings you need to know as new words appear.

Readings lists are not that useful if you don't have a grasp of the language.

>>68518096
Each kanji vary and there are no rules: some kanji have only one reading some only one kunyomi and one onyomi, some have different readings based on the meanings for which the kanji is used some have specific suffix or prefix writting and some (most actually) are pretty much random and have tons of readings.

Sometime it worths the time to learn a specific kanji but usually readings are too random to learn kanji alone as such.

So I would advise you to just learn words with their kanji writting and reading.

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>>68518096
Learn them via vocabulary so you know the readings will be useful. Learning isolated individual readings is silly at best, and a huge waste of time at worst.

To put it in perspective better, read this page:
http://www.zompist.com/yingzi/yingzi.htm

>>68519325
This. If you pay attention you will naturally get a feel for what kind of readings are used when and which are more common and which readings are associated with a certain radical and so on

I'm getting confused with adjectives in Tae Kim.
For example:
魚が好きな人 means person not liking fish.
But in previous example given, 魚が好き could mean desirable fish and 好きな人 could mean desirable person. How do you get " the person that likes/desires fish?

>>68521447
Or alternatively, how do you not get "the fish is desirable person"?

How should I be approaching anki?

While I've been using anki I just copy n paste new kanji into a dictionary to get their stroke order / further meaning. Write em down 15 or so times.

I'm spending about 35-45 mins a day (20 new cards), and am starting to forget things. Like I remember the kanji and meaning but not the pronunciation, or remembering the word but not the kanji..

Feels like I wasted time.

>>68521447
>魚が好きな人
This is 魚が好き describing 人 hence "person who likes fish"
>魚が好き
が being the identifier particle, means "fish is the one that is desirable". There is an implied state of being (だ or です)
> 好きな人
好き is a な adjective, and it describes 人, so "desirable person"

>>68521913
You are going to forget things, its inevitable. Eventually things will start to stick and remembering pronouncing and meaning will get easier as you get used to the language.

>>68521447
First stop reading tae kim cause his explaination and example sentence are shit and get a real textbook or something.
Second one of the most important characteristic of japanese is nominalization.

It means you make a sentence either a noun or and adjective.

In japanese adjectif come before nouns (that's the opposite in english)ex:
元気な人(lively person)-> な adjective
大きい本 (big book) -> い adjective

The trick instead of an actual adjectif you can use a sentence in plain form to characterize a noun example:

本屋に買った本 -> the book I bought in a book store
食べた寿司 ー>the sushi (I) ate

When you want to transform an entire sentence as a noun you can add either の or こと at the end, example:

さけを飲むことが好きです。-> I like to drink sake.

勉強をするのが難しいです。 -> It is hard to study.

(私は)友達が遊ぶのを見る。ー>I watch my friend play.

>>68522034
>本屋で買った本
>寿司を食べた
>酒を呑みたい
>勉強が難しい
>友達が遊んでいるのを見ている

>>68521913
Anki really is a reviewing tool, but it can be customized to learn things within it. The default settings are sort of crap for that purpose, though.

If you're going to learn things IN anki, add more new card repetitions. On the deck page, click on the gear next to the deck > options > new cards tab > steps (in minutes) add additonal steps instead of just 1 10 it has by default. It's up to you how much more review you want to do before you feel it sticks. 1 5 30 or 1 1 10 60 ...etc try different things out and see what works for you.

If you don't want to do that, prestudy material outside anki before reviewing it there.

Other than that, you just have to accept that forgetting things is actually part of the learning process. Anki is just letting you know what you need to review sooner rather than later, based on how difficult it is for you.

>>68522337
you are wrong, 寿司を食べた would translate to "I ate sushi".

>>68522034
>本屋に買った本 -> the book I bought in a book store
>食べた寿司 ー>the sushi (I) ate
So in these example the entire sentence becomes the adjective?

>さけを飲むことが好きです。-> I like to drink sake.
>勉強をするのが難しいです。 -> It is hard to study.
>(私は)友達が遊ぶのを見る。ー>I watch my friend play.
Tae Kim uses examples later on where a sentence become the topic (e.g. 魚が好きな人は), is that the same logic as making a sentence a noun but using はinstead? I haven't actually read up to this part in grammar yet, so why do we need to use の or こと instead of が in this case?

>First stop reading tae kim cause his explaination and example sentence are shit and get a real textbook or something.
What would you recommend?

>>68521447
Just wanted to add to the pool a certain aspect of English: word order.
For someone not used to how this language is wired, it's crazy how a single word can serve a billion different functions depending on where it's stacked in the pile of a really long sentence with no interruptions like this one I'm writing for you right now.

See? You probably had no trouble assembling the puzzle that last sentence was. Japanese grammar goes the same way, you have to think less about clear-cut rules and more about getting the "flow" of the language. When I write a long sentence in English, even though I can go to lots of unexpected corners of meaning like mentioning underwater dragons that eat little crystal crabs, since you are used to the language, you are not lost. Each word adds a new "node" to the overall meaning chain. And although that chain can go anywhere, it takes a few words before we're able to completely jump from a grammar explanation to my favorite dish, mashed potatoes.

Bottom line is - after you have some pattern recognition, you will start to expect certain outcomes from sentences you've started reading. Currently you need to read the ENTIRE sentence before making sense of each individual word, but languages generally follow an incremental meaning structure.

No sources on this, just some armchair linguistics.

>>68522535
Some of his explanations are kinda shit, it's true, but for the most part it's concise enough that you can read through it quickly and get the gist of different patterns so you can start reading actual material.

He's right, if you want a proper and thorough grammar explanation you should look elsewhere. Dictionary of Japanese Grammar and maybe later on, Imabi go into more detail.

I hesitate to recommend imabi to relative newcomers because that site goes into huge detail, so much so that it's more confusing than helpful.

我が国では料理と盛りつけがうまい人が、何より魅力的に見られると言った。
Just confirming, does it mean
more than anything, its fascinating to be able to see the people good at cooking of our country
?

Question:
So I have a half an hour commute to work each day, for a total of an hour a day. As a beginner is there anything I can do to fill in that time (besides anki, since my decks have audio).

I currently have the dictionary of basic Japanese grammar loaded on my phone, which I stated reading today; but if there's anything more constructive I'm all ears.

>>68522639
How long do you think it takes for that level of expectative comprehension to develop?
Cause I'm hoping I can start reading entry level VNs by next Christmas.

>>68523485
Passive, not potential.

>>68523550
Remove audio from anki
Get earbuds
Read Yotsubato

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>>68468661
Finally you understand.

>>68523550
>How long
Hard to measure, depends on your input.
But the process is fairly explained by the SRS theory.
Everytime you're reading at a natural pace and you suddenly fail at a sentence's puzzle, you'll be struck by a sensation of interruption. That feeling makes you think harder about the sentence and is a relearning process.
If you figure the actual meaning, you will likely get it easier if it comes up again in a short interval of time, and... you know the drill.

I'm not saying Anki is a good method for studying grammar (some people do it, I find it jarring), but that's how things go for me when reading. That's how I'm understanding some verb conjugations I have never studied or read about - they showed up once, I deduced from context and now it fits like a glove whenever I see it again in a new sentence.

I'm talking about verb conjugation, but that goes for everything - te form, particles connecting clauses or turning them into adjectives, etc.

>>68523550
The general advice is to finish a grammar guide then start reading consulting DoJG, while studying vocabulary. Maybe you can add kanji study if you want and have the time.
And in addition, I have studied less than month, but I can read already キノの旅 with the exception of the occasional sentence, I can also obtain vocabulary from context too.

>>68524341
less than a year, fuck

What's the best way to practice now that the semester is over and I can't go to class. Should I just drill what I know until next semester

What are some good beginner Japanese podcasts to listen to (other than JapanesePod101)?

>>68524520
I just listen to seiyuu radio shows like aoi saori no shinbangumi and anigera

>>68522535
I would recommend Japanese the Manga Way, then using Tae Kim to fill in the gaps. Really though Tae Kim is fine, you just have to keep in mind that he probably taught you some things that are wrong, which is itself a healthy attitude to take with any teacher.

>>68522034
>a real textbook or something
And what would that be, any specific titles?

>>68524128
I actually feel the audio to be very beneficial for learning intonation, so I might try earbuds rather than stripping out the audio; but before that I'll need to work out how to sync my phone with the anki decks on my PC.

>>68524248
I'm not using anki to study grammar, because that seems silly. Rather I'm going through DoJG to look up topics I learned about the previous night on Tae Kim for elaboration and additional examples.
But I get what you mean about exposure.

>>68524341
I don't know how difficult Kino's Journey is in the grand scheme of things, but that sounds like a pretty decent result.

Anyway one thing I should probably do is change my anki settings as people mentioned above, since I'm trying to review core6K terms from within anki without learning the content beforehand. Not so much of an issue with only 75 cards, but when I start getting messy jukugo comprised of new kanji my re-learn tally is going to skyrocket.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

>>68524426
Read

>>68522535
>Tae Kim uses examples later on where a sentence become the topic (e.g. 魚が好きな人は), is that the same logic as making a sentence a noun but using はinstead? I haven't actually read up to this part in grammar yet, so why do we need to use の or こと instead of が in this case?

は comes after a noun and mark it as the subject.
の and こと come after an entire sentence and make it a noun.

魚が好きな人は is a bit weird though correct because there are nothing after は.

I will modify it a bit so that you understand better as: 魚が好きな 人は 嫌い。

The 魚が好きな adjectify 人 so it means "the people WHO like fish."
The は make it the topic so 魚が好きな人は嫌いtranslate as " I hate (嫌い) the people who like fish (subject because of は).

>What would you recommend?

I really like the Genki serie, in particular because of the exercices.

Hey I have a *Japanese* gf
If you have any questions you can ask me
She's really cute and an athlete

>>68526042
Cool, bro! How many FPS is she animated into?

>>68524520
>beginner
>podcast
pick one

You either get people talking in native japanese or you get shitty English explanations of basic phrases.

>>68526042
Fuck off, faggot. Your girlfriend is a whore and so are you.

>>68526172
>You either get people talking in native japanese or you get shitty English explanations of basic phrases.
Have you even listened to the intermediate/upper intermediate lessons from JPod101? They aren't that bad and they aren't straight up native japanese except for the mukashibanashi ones.

>>68526162
she's real
she's 4 years older than me but she loves me massaging her legs

>>68526162
>>68526177
Don't even bother replying to him, he's just doing the same shitposting he does on the Japanese thread. Just report and ignore

>>68526683
no can't you read? I hava a jap gf. his gf is Korean.
I think he's cool because he truly loves her

>nip friend keeps trying to get me to play this game with this one girl
>eventually realize he's trying to hook me up
>she keeps speaking english to me
>realize she's practicing her english on me

I realize I hear all the time about people practicing their english on you in Japan, but is it a norm for japanese men to try to hook their friends up with girls.

>>68526865
haha.

Man I hope you aren't doing all this for free.

>>68526990
>nip guy finds white piggu online
>tells his female friend about it
>female friend wants to talk to white piggu too
>asks her friend to introduce her to you

>>68527058
I'm doing this for myself. I really love her and I'm depressed because I can't have her
I have to show other people how much I love her because she's perfect and mine

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>>68527131
literally what's the point

>"HEY GUYS LOOK I FOUND A FOREIGNER"

>>68527302
Depending on where in Japan they live, they might never see a foreigner irl in their lifetime, much less talk with one

>>68527302
Do they know you're american?

Americans are the most popular type of foreigner for japanese girls. it's kind of rigged for american men right now. If you're tall, short hair, american, you can pretty much get into any nip's pants.

t. guy who boned a nip 1 week after meeting her

>>68525632
>は comes after a noun and mark it as the subject.
>の and こと come after an entire sentence and make it a noun.
Would のは and ことは be valid after a sentence to make it the topic? e.g The woman who went shopping, got hit by a truck.

>>68527484
I hope Hokkaido is accepting of foreigners. i'm trying to decide between hokkaido and kyoto and i have about three years to decide.

expecting tons of strange faces in my future.

>>68527131
Her friend sounds like a white knight.

>>68527788
Can you ski?

>>68527780
yep you got it.

Though in your example sentence I wouldn't need のは because the topic "woman" is already a noun.

ショッピングをした女は トラックにひかれた。
(the women who did shopping) (was it by a truck)

The のは is used to transform a sentence, so it usually used for an action.

学校に行くのは大切です。
Going to school is important
(the action of going to school is important).

>>68528367
I don't actually know the rules for の and こと yet, I was just guessing based on logic. Thanks for explaining it to me though. I feel like it won't be so hard for me to move onto more complex sentences now.

>>68528186
i'm more of a snowboarder desu

>>68528544
Cool, you'll enjoy Hokkaido then.

>>68527521
そうですね
ワタクシはアメリカ人ですけど
髪の毛は超長い
残念
魔法使いになりました
人生は苦しい

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>>68524520
You could try children's stories.
http://www.hukumusume.com/douwa/pc/100monogatari/index.html

There is also News in Slow Japanese:
http://newsinslowjapanese.com/

I quite like 「菊池翔のナダラカ向上心」
http://www.podcasts.jp/podcastarchive/%E8%8F%8A%E6%B1%A0%E7%BF%94%E3%81%AE%E3%83%8A%E3%83%80%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AB%E5%90%91%E4%B8%8A%E5%BF%83-84631.html

>>68527521
I think so too.

>>68528516
Your welcome. Japanese grammar takes some time to grasp at first.

>>68528603
Thanks for the links!

>>68528565
>i became a wizard

most people don't actually immigrate to japan until they're in their late 20s. wizard status is no excuse to not have a gf.

commit harikari

>>68528655
>>68528565

i'm sorry, you posters have confused my post as an opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXu0IA5CLfY

Japanese girls have been surveyed on this topic countless times and the results come out clear. It's rigged for american men in japan.

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>>68528782
>tfw about to turn 25 and only just started learning
Shit.
I know your brain rots once you get past 21 too. God I wish I'd never gone to university; I'm 40k in debt, 1/3rd of my way to the grave, and all I've got is a job that pays the former amount much per annum.

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>>68528782
実は私のドウテイ状況の理由は包茎ですよ
I'm pretty sure the sentence above is complete shit; how should I have said the state of my virginity or whatever?

>>68528910
嫌だ
彼女のアックセントはマズイ

Whelp, DJT is a good as dead.
Its user base is divided between boards.
/int/'s DJT is mostly culture pals + a bit of japanese
/jp/'s DJT is otaku shit + a bit of japanese

compared to /a/'s DJT, which was japanese + a bit of shitposting

I give it 4 more weeks until there are no more DJT thread anywhere.

>>68529200
We need to go back to /a/
Let's make it happen.

>>68529261
>>68529200
I'm fine with it being here, but I don't think it should be /int/ and /jp/ it should be one or the other.

>>68529200
The /a/ era is over, but it can survive on /jp/ at a relaxed pace just like the Untranslated Visual Novel general. This /int/ thread will continue to degenerate until it's indistinguishable from the other Japanese thread here.

>>68529133
same boat australia bro

i actually started learning after hitting 25

i'm still 3 years away from bachelor's degree. i won't be able to actually do anything meaningful with japanese until i'm almost wizard status.

i know how you feel all too well.
>40k in debt

what the fuck kind of colleges did you go to to rack it up that high