Is it OK to not wanna be "that" good?

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Note: I'm not saying it's cool to wanna plateau and not improve. But I don't wanna do super crazy realistic life drawing so I'd rather focus on what I do want.

And if people like Mike Judge(Beavis & Butthead), Stephen Hillenberg(SpongeBob), and Pen Ward(Adventure Time) can see success with their semi-decent art styles doesn't that prove that detailed life drawing isn't for everyone?

Or what about comics like Loading Artist or Owlturd? They're not very realistic and I've never seen them do life drawing, yet their comics are funny and popular. Honestly is life drawing just a meme? Why does everyone push "muh loomis" yet everyone on this board sucks?

Nothing wrong with aspiring to be a turd. It's not like normalfags can tell the difference. They think anything brown and mushy is chocolate pudding.

In my eyes you'll always be shit though ;)

>>2861865

P.S. My favorite animation is "South Park", I bought all seasons.

>>2861867
t. every 15-year-old ever

>>2861867
This is my point; the art doesn't need to be good, however the story/jokes need to be off the charts to get anywhere

I personally don't care that much about art--at least compared to this board. People here fucking love art and I don't that much.

I'd be more than happy being a shitty artist who makes something like Garfield or Charlie Brown. Who cares if the art is shit? As you said, normies don't know the difference and they're still entertaining. I watch Family Guy and laugh my ass off regardless of the shitty art style.

But the question is can I live with myself purposefully being a shit artist just for yucks? Should I basically kill myself now?

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>>2861875
>I watch Family Guy and laugh my ass off
pic
>Should I basically kill myself now?
Yes.

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This is Stephen Hillenburg's """"art""""

I've never seen any of his life drawing or anything else, but if this is his style b4 making a multi-million dollar cartoon franchise I think it's safe to say life drawing is indeed a meme for cartoonists

SMBC dude also makes a lot and his drawings are even less appealing than Scott Adams' or Seth's.
There's is a mediocre furry artist making 20k/month. Sakimichan exists.

What you people never understand is that it's never about your skill alone, but how and to whom you sell it.

>>2861851
>>2861855

Those people aren't primarely artists you fucking genius. They made their money pitching a cartoon to a major television network. If you think that is a realistic goal for a professional career, then good luck with that. If you want to be a professional artist, you'll obviously have to be good enough to do what is asked of professional artists. That varies from industry to industry, but in general, skill in figure drawing tends to be fairly important in the more mainstream industries like animation, illustration, concept art, comic books etc.

>>2861878
I'm not sure if you are trolling or just really stupid. Is your career goal to one day get lucky with your shit art and have a multi-million dollar cartoon franchize? Because I can tell you right now, that is not going to happen. So with that out of the way, what else can you do to make a career out of your shit art?

>>2861880
>skill in figure drawing tends to be fairly important for animation, comic books
> Seth MacFarlane does animation with little-to-no life drawing skillset
Scott Adams does comics with little-to-no life drawing skillset

>you fucking genius

Really gets the neurons firing

>>2861883

Just like Seth & Scott are not primarily artists, I do not want a career as an artist.

I make very good money doing what I do, most of which relates to writing and storytelling. So making a transition from what I already do into something like screenwriting would be insanely hard, but not impossible.

Having the artistic skill behind that allows me to pitch ideas assuming I can work around the right people.

I have no interest in being paid to draw 8-12 hrs a day for someone else. But I would be willing to make my own comics, storyboards, cartoon ideas, and do that all on spec to hopefully draw attention from the right people

Learning to draw gives you the tools to put your vision on paper.

Calvin & Hobbes has some amazing cartooning and lively poses to it, and Watterson clearly knows how to draw well. I'm absolutely certain he draws from life a lot and knows gesture and all that stuff. Is this necessary to be a comic strip artist? No. Would Calvin & Hobbes be Calvin & Hobbes without Watterson's drawing skills? Probably not, or not nearly as much.

Every career has different needs. If you want to draw portraits you're better off learning to photocopy with a sight-size method, and use a well respected medium like oils. If you want to make cartoons you have to make stuff that appeals to kids, if you want to animate you need to learn gesture very well. If you want to make it in concept art you need to learn all the shortcuts and put out huge volumes of works, and you need an impressive portfolio of stuff that would work in a videogame or a movie. For a gag strip, ideas are more important than drawings. Making a graphic novel without knowing how to draw is going to be a problem.

The era where people recruit 'artists' is over, nobody really gives a shit about finding a new established vision (like say Giger's work in Alien), they want someone reliable and they want to know what's going to come out of it. Since entertainment these days is so big, all the career paths have solidified.

/ic/ doesn't understand this so they just assume that getting good is done in only one way and there's nothing else besides this general idea of being good. Just don't take this board seriously.

>>2861886
Well, good for them. McFarlane hasn't animated anything since the pilot of Family Guy. He probably hasn't animated that one either, I dunno maybe he has. Point is, he's primarely a director, writer and voice actor. So yes, if you want to be a director, writer or voice actor for a cartoon show, you probably don't need life drawing skills, what a fucking revelation.

>>2861878
that's some pretty great designs tho

>>2861851
Scott Adams is always bragging about that self-help book he wrote where he shows how to make money out of having no skillset. Maybe you should read that if you want to be another hack.

>>2861878
I think his designs are appealing and lively even though he just gives them a vertical line of action, that takes some skill, the more I think about it.

>>2861909
That book has some legit advice for ppl who wanna be good artists. Quoted from a review:

> In his own words, goals are a reach-it-and-be-done situation(where you are often waiting to achieve it someday in the future) whereas a system is something you do on a regular or daily basis with a reasonable expectation that doing so will get you to a better place in life. Wanting better health or wanting to lose 10 kg are goals. Being active everyday is a system. One is tied to another - but goals people are fighting the feeling of discouragement at each turn and the systems people are feeling good every-time they apply their system.

>>2861851
Seth MacFarlane has a fine arts degree, and you can't get one without sitting in front of nude models and drawing a fucktons of figures regardless of what area of art you wish to work in. You just won't find them online because he's 43 years old and the internet was barely even a thing when he was making them.

>>2861891
Why is this the only sensible post in the thread?

>he's primarely a director, writer and voice actor
And also singer. And if you really want, actor. His pilot he did for college, he starred it in himself. He doesn't fucking need drawing skills, he got by on everything else.

>>2861991
Then explain Matt Groening who does basically 0 voices yet somehow made the longest-running primetime animation in history(along with Futurama another huge success)

Groening is either illuminati or just disgustingly stupid lucky because Groening's art sucks, he doesn't do voices, and he's certainly not a writer to the level of Mitch Hurwitz.

Sometimes dumb ass luck + connections can get you all the way

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>>2861958
Whatever you say mate.

Scott Adams pretty much explains how he became rich without being a great artist here:

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/137749295801/trumps-talent-stack-systems-versus-goals

It's a good read, the tl;dr is that the way to become rich is to find a novel way to combine multiple skills.

>>2861998

Well, shit, guess you're right.

That's such a good point. All of those points.

Hey, guys, slack off and don't do any sort of work towards your intended goals. Don't try to learn anything. Don't even bother.

You're all winners just waiting to get lucky. This is America. You're all born rich, you just haven't got your money yet. It's coming, though.

Well do you want to make art or do you want to sell It?

Do you care more about developing as an artist, or does it matter more to get validated by other people who look at It?

These are questions only you can answer. The only guarantee is that neither will ever completely satisfy us. We'll always want something else. Choose to suffer the lack of recognition or the lack of creative fulfillment, and learn to love that suffering. There is no making it.

>>2861913
How do you create this "system"? It sounds like it makes a lot of sense.

>>2862013
>tfw now instead of having one talent you need to compete against many talents

>>2861998
Because he was a funny cartoonist, not one with good fundamentals. His writing appealed.

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Seth Macfarlane single-handedly animated the (crude) Family Guy pilot alone using traditional paper/celluloid/ink methods on a write-off "fuck you, kid" budget that was less than the yearly wage of two full-time employees of the period (the equivalent of $72,000 today). He also acts, writes, sings, etc. What he does might not appeal to you on a personal level (though his tired cut-away humor was pretty unique and fresh in the early 2000s), but he made it on hard work and talent as sure as any of us would like to, someday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVVx31XzKw

>>2862033
Complete false equivalence and not even close to my point.

You can slack off & suck at art, but be really damn personable and network like crazy, and still land jobs in whatever career you want.

Who you know typically does matter more than what you can do. But the insanely talented people(Trey & Matt, Seth, Mike Judge) get where they go by both talent + luck. There is no "wrong" way

>>2862063
That is quite literally the entire point of this thread.

People can suck asshole at drawing yet still get into the entertainment industry and create quality content solely based off other skills. Writing is a prime example of this.

>>2862097
So why is faggot OP acting like he wants some big secret told to him so he can stop trying and just be rich?

Can't draw? Better be a funny writer.
Can't write? Better have amazing drawing fundamentals (Don Bluth)
Can't write or draw? Better be able to voice act. (Tom Kenny, who has also directed the pilot to PlasticMan which was a passion project for him for awhile)
Can't write, draw, or act? Better suck cock.

And then have connections for all of them to even get noticed.

Why did this thread need 30 replies for that?

>>2861851
the difference is that they're more writers rather than artists

>>2861851
of course. Just try your best until you start hitting walls if that's the way you wanna go.

>>2862033
Don't be a retard.

Learning anatomy is only important if you want to draw realistic people, but for some reason it has become one dimensional linear scale of skil on this board. Everyone here thinks more like a craftsmen than an actual artist.

>>2861851
There are two types of genres that you could be a low-tier artist and still do well:

-Comedy
-Porn/Fetish

Unless you are really funny or willing to delve into certain fetishes, GET FUCKING GOOD

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>>2862250
Because everyone follows the path of a concept artist or illustrator.

For every other branch of art you need way higher writing skills. It's really difficult to admit it. It was for me. Raw drawing skill doesn't entitles one to a career or money. The only thing that matters is the value you're putting out there.

Many artists are in denial of this. I was. It's called Loss aversion. Has an example, people who spend countless months conquering perspective only to find out that the majority of the industry uses 3D to start a painting. Same with Photobashing or Designdoll, it's a new standard, not a choice.

But it's not easy to admit that the thing you spend months conquering a skill that people don't care about.
So it's easier to call 3D or Photobashing "hacks", "cheating", "nasty art", than to branch out of your comfort zone and adopt them.

As for me I realized that after years of drawing I had nothing else inside me to give to people. Why exactly is being skilled at drawing valuable to the average public? Does that entitles you to money? No.
Humor, entertainment, emotions, introspection, reflection. These are things that are more valuable than how good the art is. Pic related is the most obvious example.

So I have halted my art learning and now I'm pursuing other skills. Script writing, stand up humor, acting, marketing, script composition, negotiation, story boarding. Paradoxically I'm now enjoying art more since I'm actually using it to communicate something instead of being stuck in a rat race to perfect every muscle in the body.

When I look back at my own art in the past, it's just pretty people floating in space. Without substance or meaning. But I thought that if I was better than everyone else at it I would never need to think of a message. A la Sakimichan. I was wrong.

>>2861878

Hillenburg was a Calarts alumni, and it's required for you to do life drawing in order to join their school. So yes, he did life drawings.

>>2862250

It's important like every other fundamental. You don't have to study every little muscle and bone, but it's important to know the main ones.

>>2861851
seth and scott aren't artists.
the message is the goal.
being an excellent artist allows you to deliver your message with excellent precision and impact through your art.
if you're using other means than art to deliver that message (comedy writing as in dilbert and family guy), you're not aspiring to be an artist, and you wouldn't belong on this board. that's all.

>>2862316
>s for me I realized that after years of drawing I had nothing else inside me to give to people.
Same issue here. I think I draw OK but I feel like I'm completely hollow.

>>2862452
>seth and scott aren't artists
>but they both draw and create art worth millions of dollars

yep it all adds up

>>2862583
they create comedy worth millions of dollars, not art

>>2862587
>No true Scotsman

>>2862594
do you really think family guy would be popular if it was just drawings of the characters? or do you think it's the jokes that got it famous?
the art just doesn't communicate on a very high level, and it's not supposed to. it's totally valid to say that they are not artists. OP is basically just saying he's more interested in a different field.

insert wreck it ralph bad guy speech here

Good artists aren't people that are "the best", they are good because they are more motivated to create than most.

>>2862598
>Writing isn't art
>Animation isn't art
>Voice acting isn't art

>>2862603
Are you saying they aren't following the fundamentals of comedy?

>>2862606
I'm saying that
>"it's totally valid to say that they are not artists."
You're full of shit. They are artists. Get over it.

>>2862603
i would say those things are each "an art" of their own...
but on /ic/ we don't discuss writing and voice acting, we discuss visual art, critique. it doesn't fit with how we talk about art here, it doesn't fit with what we call an artist here. i'd call them writers or voice actors. animators... seth was once an animator but doesn't do it anymore.
animation does fit here, and we have threads for that. but still family guy's animation may as well be in static form most of the time, the actual movement does not communicate much that a very simplistic comic couldn't (like dilbert). they are delivering their message primarily through their writing and/or voice acting, which is not "art" as we call it here.
my point is, all OP is saying is that he disagrees with the aim of the board

family guy isn't popular or at least talked about because of it's artstyle, but rather the subject matter. making half assed or what you consider shitty art won't really matter if the idea or concept is interesting. think the OG "One Punch Man". the original manga was drawn with no regard for aesthetics, just good ideas, and that's why it became popular. being a half-assed artist doesn't mean whatever you're going to make is automatically half assed unless you make it that way.

>>2861855
Loomis is an excuse. You'll never have to compete with other professionals if you're a forever student.
>"I could do better than that if I wanted" t. every insecure loser with a chip on his shoulder.

>>2862050
Why would you ever think otherwise?
Are you people really so sheltered you sincerely think tracing Loomis is gonna get you a job?

I guess that's why most freelance artists fail, typical "all eggs in the same basket" stupidity. Why would someone hire you for your hot figure drawing charcoal on paper portfolio when the average graphic designer comes out knowing figure drawing in digital and traditional media, 3d sculpting, packaging, editorial design, photography, photo editing, typography, illustration, storyboarding, etc?

>>2862609
Why are you being such a pedantic cunt? Obviously he's referring to the type of artists that DRAW and PAINT stuff. Of course you could call everything and everyone an artist, what does that have to do with anything?


>>2861851
And to you OP, why the fuck are you asking if it's okay? That is for you to decide. Do you want /ic/ to make your goals for you? People on here are after a higher skill level because they are interested in commercial art or more detail oriented animation. If learning the fundamentals and getting to a high level doesn't coincide with your goals then don't spend time on gitting gud. Spend that time drawing w/e it is you want to git gud at. All the people who you listed aren't primarily artists and they don't really care about art that much, they just use it as a tool to present their writing or humor. No one tunes into family guy to check out the awesome animation and no one reads a comic strip to admire how well the artist drew something. (although plenty of comic strip artists are legit)

Dumbest question I've ever head, shittiest thread I've seen in a long time.

>>2862616
>>2862801
You cannot divorce the art style from the rest of the product because it's built as a whole. You can go on and try to recreate Family Guy or Simpsons episode with actors, it won't be the same at all.

>>2863378
>Do you want /ic/ to make your goals for you?

Based on the types of threads I see here on a weekly basis I'd say the answer is a resounding "yes"

>>2862609
And you are an autist.

Same reason why Snookie is more well known and wealthier than a research scientist working at NASA

>>2861851
Well, they are not worth millions because they can draw, but because they can write.

>>2861878
It's hard to judge someone from their life art. Some animators have shitty life drawings, yet can cartoon really, really well.

>>2864892
Then why does everyone say to draw from life? Do they mean just using life as a reference but still drawing in a cartoon style?

I always assumed it meant "draw realistically a lot because somehow it helps your cartoons"

>>2862316
Very interesting anon, thank you for shared your experience with us.

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>>2864916
I think this guy sums it up pretty well. It's a lecture focused on western animation but I think there's overlap with any style choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZOdOGu-Q60

tl;dr do life drawing but focus more on gesture, form and anatomy rather than negative space, silhouette etc.

Granted, this guy is absolutely awful from an illustrative standpoint (much like Jazza he's an animator first and a "draftsman" second at best)

>>2862006
Do you realize Mcfarlane went to college 25 years ago right? Not in 2015 when that article was written, right?

>>2861851
>>>/biz/

>>2861890
underrated post

you said it all

>>2861883
>Because I can tell you right now, that is not going to happen

Why not? Someone's gotta be famous and make big cartoon series, might as well be OP. And don't say some shit like "hurr durr if hes posting on 4chan its a sign he wont make it", every famous cartoon writer was a big fucking loser before making it. Godspeed, OP. You work on your ideas and your shitty art. I believe in you.

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>>2866125
>every famous cartoon writer was a big fucking loser before making it. Godspeed, OP. You work on your ideas and your shitty art. I believe in you.
>and your shitty art kek

not the OP but I needed to hear that.

>Can I be semi-mediocre and still be OK at making the type of art I wanna make?
You're thinking about it the wrong way. You should always aspire to do better at your craft, but you should also always do what it is you want to do. Don't wait to do what you want to do. Even if you draw like shit, if you want to make comics, start now, because you have to learn how to storytell in comics, and learning how to draw alone won't teach you how to do that. One of your shittier drawn things might take off, but you also might not take off until you've found a better groove in your style. Just do what you want to make. Don't wait. You practice what you love while you learn the craft. It's all part of the learning process. But you should also always figure out how to better your artstyle in order to communicate what you're trying to communicate. They're not in tiers. They go hand in hand. Do both.

Don't ever lock yourself in a room and focus on improvement and improvement alone. What are you trying to do with that improvement? Where does it go next? Always consider the overall goal.

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>>2865772
>>2866125
>>2866186

I had no idea /ic/ could be so helpful, encouraging, and genuinely positive.

We're all gonna make it you guys