Animation Thread

>>2701239
Next thread I'll try to post a western animation for OP image. Sorry for constant animu

>>2701247
Simpsons isn't animu

>>2701247
Nothing wrong with that, animu has the best animation after all

>>2701239
next thread i think we should add to the op that you can play youtube videos frame by frame by pressing the , and . keys. There's really no need to use rowvid.

>>2701247
I don't mind, it looks beautiful.

>>2701482
>you can play youtube videos frame by frame by pressing the , and . keys.
No you can't. That skips through the video by 1 second each, that means each time you press "." or "," you are skipping on average 24 frames. That's counterproductive if you want to study frame by frame techniques.

>>2701487
You're wrong it does go through frame by frame if you press the keys that have both ,. or <> on them. Are you sure you're not pressing the arrow keys because they do skip through in seconds.

>>2701487
>>2701491
You're both correct and wrong. This only works on certain videos. Some videos skip each frame, others skip each second. I've refreshed the page multiple times, and it seems that only specific videos can have frame by frame playback.

>>2701790
Huh, weird. I haven't found a video that it didn't work with. Maybe it's a browser thing, I'm using chrome if that helps.

>>2701817
>works on certain videos. Some videos skip each frame, others skip each second. I've refreshed the page multiple times, and it seems that only specific videos can have frame by frame playback.
>>>
>Anonymous 10/03/16(Mon)16:03:55 No.270
Huh, might be why. I'm using IE.

anyone got a crack for CSP

>>2701836
Program:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/66a44dxlq3c7t14/CSP154.EN.rar
Crack:
https://mega.nz/#!fph1HR7S!dHc9-Qc0o09lbwQqKUYrv0MVF2fwZeSJRN8NAhC4d-s

>>2701239
Found this place showing a buncha anime shots in webm https://sakugabooru.com/post

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going for it

>>2701239
I think I read somewhere that a lot of these really fluid shots in akira were rotoscopped

>>2702255
Any plans on how you're going the body in the other frames?

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Any advice on improvement and clean/up?

>>2702350
no squash and stretch and no speed variation. It looks like a tween between two points.

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Hapless OpenToonz anon back with another dumb question: how do I delete specific frames in a level/column/whatever? I made the mistake of putting more than one object into the same level because they weren't in the scene at the same time, but now that I want to move the objects around via keyframes it's all or nothing. Select frames+Ctrl+C gets them copied into a new layer nice and easy, but select+backspace does fuck-all.

I feel like I'm getting steadily better with the software, but a question this basic only makes me feel dumber.

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>>2702353
Tried to improve the speed variation this time by making the ball linger at the top a bit longer.

The lack of squash and stretch is intentional though. Currently, I'm just trying to have the ball retain it's shape and size throughout the animation so it doesn't "wobble" (more noticeable in this gif compared to the previous version).

>>2702486
Squash and stretch isn't for the looks. It's for the feel. Just redraw a couple frames right before the ball hits the ground, when it's impacting the ground, and when it's just bouncing back up. should be enough and no matter how bad your hand is it wont look wobbly.

>>2702486
Squash and stretch is needed.

>>2701851
final-fucking-ly

I've been on Manga Studio EX for the longest, Clip Studio EX is just so much better.

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This was my first fully finished animation after a year of small fundamental learning on and off.(Im at a art school but not for animation yet) Animated in Flash then used Hitfilm 3 to edit in 3d effects like rain and storms and create 3D background layers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEFMqyv7Kz0&ab_channel=Vector

dont know how to make a gif

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>>2701239

>>2703357
Nice cherry picking.

>>2703357
Whats that japanese one from?

>>2703367
How is that cherry picking? Both the West and Japan have good/bad animation but I'd say quality 2d animation is not the norm in the West. You have exceptions like Avatar but the vast majority of Western stuff is shitty tweened comedies.

>>2703357
>that cherry picking

>>2703378
Boy and the Beast - same guy who made Summer Wars

>>2703367
its a fair representation of current shit

>>2703367
>>2703511

Implying that even is cherry picking

>>2703647
>>2703949
I'm inclined to agree, it's still not fair to compare the process of a feature length animated film to a serialized production. North America hasn't really been producing feature length 2D animated films recently, so there's no fair comparison, but you could at least use the process from a recent anime series.

>>2703949
The japanese example was made by a team, the bottom western example was done by one person.

Also, would Bahi JD be considered western? He is from Austria

Can I get some general advice on doing a morph? Project due sunday and my teacher is kinda...inattentive I guess and doesn't give good help so can anyone offer me some advice on it?

>>2703367
>>2703511
He's not wrong though.
Name one animation by nips that are puppetshit.

>>2703990
>would Bahi JD be considered western
I think it's less about the background of the animators and more about where the animation is featured. I.E. If Disney hired Japanese animators, that wouldn't make their films Japanese/Anime just like hiring Bahi doesn't make your animation western.

>>2703990
>one person
implying that that isn't the exact quality of the actual show itself
>>2703962
You can't just use that as an excuse. It's literally the state of the industry. It's literally that way because Americans don't care enough about the art to take a chance on developing something good that can actually make money. They don't believe it's possible. The 2D is dead meme is because japan are the only ones with nutsacks humongous enough to stake their livelihoods on producing 2D films anymore

>>2704026
>less about the background of the animators and more about where the animation is featured
So if Bahi posted a solo piece onto tumblr, would it then boil down to the style of animation?

>>2704092
I think so, at least imo.

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>>2702343
I guess I'll just stretch and squash it?

I've done the 7th episode of my claynimation fighting drama. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb-BGeJKg3U

>>2702486
Fallow thru isn't just a principle of animation it's an actual law of physics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTgSaEPdj-U

>>2704560
Whoops I meant to say squash and stretch! But at the end of the day it's a similar effect. parts of the ball continue moving after the other have stopped.

>>2703357
>comparing hand drawn to symbol animation

Why don't you make a fair comparison?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYEmL0d0lZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtJty5zg5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAYto7Svwo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxBJYSU3RJ8

Since I don't know much about anime I implore you to present some good anime preferably older anime since people might complain that the cartoons I posted are more than 75 years old now.

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>>2704163
i'm not sleeping til' i finish this

>>2704026
This.

Did you know that a majority of Disney artists were Chinese? Take for instance Tyrus Wong He was the art directer and background artist for Bambi.

>>2704578
>a majority of Disney artists were Chinese

I could be wrong about that actually. let's instead say that there were a lot of Chinese artists.

>>2704574
The hair needs follow thru

>>2704574
Good luck, it looks good so far!

>>2704583
You got it, chief
>>2704586
thanks.

>>2704569
Are there any recent western animations that were similar in technique? I know there's at least this: https://vimeo.com/49940313

>>2704598

Don Bluth is making a comeback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XqJHtZWrdU

There's also Winnie the pooh by Eric Goldberg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDq7VaNKTJk

Aaron Blaise is making a new cartoon https://twitter.com/AaronBlaiseArt/status/772192462647488512

and he animated this advert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW2EmATcb6o

There's Duet by Glen Keane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkARp7dqSBk

Disney also has some canceled 2D films that would have come out in the past decade.

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Meh.

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Okay I'm pretty concerned. I finally figured out all of the animation. Got it all perfect; camera, movements, everything.

But it won't fucking render for some reason.

When the rendering is complete, the preview tab is just a black screen. Try hitting play, and it immediately goes back to pause as if nothing happened. Try playing it in Windows media, and it gives pick related on the bottom.

Help. Please. Now more than ever.

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>>2705300
Also worth noting, when I try to render it in another format, it comes out like this: The animation completely smooth, but only one random little window actually showing. The Camera1 on the stage is also red, which sems to me like it would mean some kind of error.

Any clues?

Congrats to the anon who was doing the Rick and Morty thing. Looks like it's gettin some love.

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I need to get back to animating this shot
Going to completely redo the other guy's movements, they aren't properly keyed out

>>2705383
>tfw I won't be able to sit and watch the stream anymore
I have no face for this feel

>>2704005
Started airing this season alone:
https://myanimelist.net/anime/33727/Neko_no_Dayan__Fushigi_Gekijou
https://myanimelist.net/anime/33392/Gakuen_Handsome
https://myanimelist.net/anime/34156/PePePePengiin
https://myanimelist.net/anime/33814/Ao_Oni_The_Animation

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>>2701851
What the hell does this even mean

>>2705740
pls

>>2704569
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0dP9XLLvew

>>2703446
HUR HUR HUR HUR

https://www.youtube.com/user/gobelins

this is france ALONE

>>2706008
Im pretty sure he was talking about mainstream media and as it stands there is only low quality animation present in the west. As he said THE NORM in Japan for 2d animation is way better. The 2d industry in the west is stuff like family guy, the simpsons etc.. While in japan its animations like you can see in one punch man.
Also I d like you to name 5 good 2d Animated films that were made in the west in the last 5 years.

I want to get started in tradiotional animation. Are there any supplies you guys reccomend? I heard light tables are really good.

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>>2706027
that one adventure time episode with james baxter

>>2703357
Yet animators in Japan are paid in crums of bread.

Animators in Japan are slaves of the medium, it's depressing as fuck even if the work that comes from there is amazing.

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Sharing some intersting links:

principles of animation Youtube playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd

animation tests
http://livlily.blogspot.com.es/

Flipbook related
http://www.flipbook.info/index_en.php#

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>>2705992
The only good thing was the effects, the character animation wasn't all that good. I also think the cinematography was pretty bad as well. Take fantasia (pic related) Every single frame is work of fucking art! Show me one anime that has this much effort put into it.

>>2703357
>comparing an animated movie to a cartoon

Genius

>>2706176
probably because there are no big 2d animation movies being produced in the west anymore. Or am I forgetting some big movie

>>2704713
Thanks, glad to see Don Bluth posting updates. Didn't know about Winnie the pooh though.

>>2706159
>70 years ago

Wow what a relevant argument.

>>2706200
How does that make the comparison more valid?

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>>2706200
"The West" as in USA?

The French movie "Dofus" was pretty sick and had a clever mix of traditional frame by frame (for important scenes) and flash puppetry (for less important scenes)

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Literally first animation ever, watched a few animation videos before hand, any advice?

>>2706268
Have the ball start off screen and fall into frame, It will give it a bit more weight. also a second smaller bounce before the rolling would give you some nice follow through. But over all that is pretty good for a first time animator.

>>2706352
Why would you need anything else?

>>2706352
use tvpaint

>>2704569

>implying that we can fairly compare western and eastern animation.

How come western animation is so shitty but eastern animators are treated like scums lower than dirt by their own industry ?

This bullshit is so motherfuckin unfair

>>2706395
>eastern animators are treated like scums lower than dirt by their own industry
because they are subservient to the west

>>2706159
show yer work then

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>>2704574
this is gay i feel like i should spice up the first part where she's turning her head towards the viewer by having her head duck down for a bit or something

>>2706248
How does that make it less relevant?

>>2706248
>X thing done in the past
>No one else can do something like X again in [current year] because reasons
As >>2706452 said, bullshit excuses.

>>2706444
>>2704574
Keep at it anon!!

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>>2706455
This

If anything 2D is the way to go if were talking budget wise. your average 2d feature costs 20 - 40 million dollars where as a 3D film would cost a minimum150 million dollars. And Disney still has 2D animators working for them. The problem is that the mainstream market prefers 3D over 2D. As you can see the two 2D films are "Princess and the Frog" and "Winnie the Pooh". They're good movies it's just that nobody wants to watch them.

>>2706200
As I said in >>2704713 Don Bluth is making Dragons Lair The Movie.

>>2706444
The head might good as it is now, assuming the body is jumping while turning.

Try to see how the rest of the body looks turning before modifying the head.

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>>2706159
>animation thread centered on movement
>posts a fucking background

https://u.pomf.is/uiepyk.jpg

Also Yoh Yoshinari's character animations are fucking great what are you on about? What isn't all that good? It has the qualities of Japanese animation (timing) and the liveliness of American's Illusion of Life, what do you want more?

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>>2706510

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>>2706511
More glorious backgrounds

https://hgcttx.imgur.com/

>>2704569
https://sakugabooru.com/data/cc4641572e7a93ee0c5dffc2e56978b5.webm

A low budget movie to be fairer than TV anime

>>2706176
Can easily do the same with TV anime

https://sakugabooru.com/data/be6be59af05f4369ac88fdd3d24e9ebf.mp4

>>2706457
Thank you I WILL.
>>2706494
>jumping while turning

What do you MEAN?

>>2706541
Because the head is going up I guess. But anyway even if she was jumping, she couldn't not fall with the inclination of this head while it's moving (?!), is it supposed to be a detached head or do you actually plan to draw a body after this? Because I don't know

>>2706544
I'm drawing the body right now!

>>2706547
I expressed myself wrong, I meant even with a body I think the girl should fall over with such inclination, while she's sliding to the right, I don't really understand the movement but it's alright if you're just experimenting, have fun.

>>2706563
Oh I understand. It would make sense for her to fall with that inclination? I understand.

>>2706565
Maybe not, I didn't really get she was turning on herself... Sorry.

>>2701851
Fucking key gen won't work. Been trying for hours.

>>2706571
not him but here you go
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:D4B310940665AF939F0DA2A98D702B38EA3BBE2A&dn=TVPaint%20Animation%2010%20Pro%2010.0.16%20%2832%20Bit%29%20%5bChingLiu%5d&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.publicbt.com%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fopen.demonii.com%3a1337

tvpaint 10 pro 32bit

what i use.

>>2706579
Thanks
I'll give this a shot

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I got bored and just wanted to waste some time, but I ended up liking the result of this honestly, so I'm leaving this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWfiActNm0Y

Not a resource but cool

Storyboarding resources
http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com/2015/11/storyboarding-simpsons-way.html
http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com/2014/01/knd-storyboards-201-part-1.html
http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com/2014/01/knd-storyboarding-201-part-deux.html

A part of the LWA documentary, that doc should be advised maybe but the video is inspiring https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba55wWnEn3s

Thomas Romain's advises on composition (works for animation) there's more but gotta search, too lazy https://imgur.com/a/XQf5r

Post short animation stuff https://twitter.com/Nazoani_museum/media

This channel has a lot of fun stuff (i'd say comfy) though that not really useful as it's very basic stuff https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY-tGAhulrOzRd6n1mLZwSg

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Anybody else here excited for Flip Flappers?

>>2706658
i sure am. i'm exited for all the animations. haven't really been disappointed in any of them.

>>2706511
That looks really cool and artistic but that doesnt mean the animation is good.

>>2706708
go watch it, it's actually a pretty good show. but it does have a vague artsy storyline. but it works well.

the name is kaiba

>>2706708
I don't know, you posted a background, I posted one too. The animation of Kaiba can be good though. I'm not really observant in detail of the animation, so I can't tell you a show that is consistent with character animation... except from everything KyoAni.

But anime is varying in quality and style and that's why I like it, you can find gems here and there, in a cut, in an episode, or unexpectedly in a whole series.

>>2706510
>posts a fucking background

You haven't seen fantasia have you? I didn't post a fucking background dipshit. Also no your Japanese animation lacks the very things you say it has. the timing is shit. The animation is choppy. Characters feel glassy eyed and lifeless and they lack charm. Fucking watch fantasia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxBJYSU3RJ8

>>2706738
I haven't, yet, effectively. I speedread the post so I pushed enter before getting that he was talking about what pic related referred to and not solely pic related.

If you're talking about my gif, it's a little web animation certainly drawn in less than an hour, I just posted it because the movement is lively with nice squash and stretch and various qualities that are absent from a lot of anime, I don't feel like crawling sakugabooru to find a better cut to illustrate.

It's kinda choppy but it's a web animation, though it doesn't bother me much and I don't think it's that bothering in the end, in a general term. It's not like it's really choppy or jerky like some badly spaced animation with limited animation timing (see: Knights of Sidonia), it just feels kinda varying between slow downs and normal speed (except maybe the tail).

How is the timing shit though? As for the character design, that's not really the point, and it's a cheap web animation, go watch some real anime.

If you're talking about the earlier video of inspired Yoshinari something, I don't and can't follow you, you're very entitled to your own school of thoughts. Though I'd be interested in maybe discussing it.

I'll watch Fantasia sooner or later.

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>>2706738
wew more fucking western vs asian animation elitism.

No middle ground with you fags.

also
>Characters feel glassy eyed and lifeless and they lack charm.

>>2706752
What else did he do since the Robin Hood movie?

>>2706742
the Yoshinari animation is shit. just look at Milt Kahl for a socond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRNhRI3swqA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_2yfDbWKJw

Notice the secondary action, the timing, the life, the charm, the squash and stretch. I'm not talking about character design. I'm talking about the acting. These characters move and act as though they have a brain, feelings and personality. They don't just move. They move and act in their own special way. That is the true illusion of life.

>>2706753
Do you know who Milt Kahl is?

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>>2706755
I'll admit I usually don't like Disney (designs, coloring, often too overdone animation with ridiculous mannerism and exaggerated cliché principles following) but I've seen a few cuts of Milt Kahl on Robin Hood (those in pencil) and I love it. I don't know if I'd like it in it's finished state, Disney coloring looks so flat and there's no texture, also the forms are usually too random (round, but feeling non accurate) and the lines, I mean I haven't the same feeling that anime but I can't really explain it, it's not only a matter of designs and forms ("manga faces") but the way the forms are approached.

I'm getting a bit lost here but for a quick example look at the above gif of LWA the face is round but it's kinda broken, not a soft round. I feel like a lot of the time in Disney the rounds are not as calculated and just thrown like blobs. I don't like how it feels, shapeless actually.

But I like the pencil animations you posted, there's also the famous one where he walks (pic related).

I agree for the secondary action, the life (breathing, even, what lacks from most anime, but I can find it in Yoshinari's).

The squash and stretch is nice here but as I said earlier I often feel this is a shapeless squash, I prefer the smearing of anime like in recent Doga Kobo.

As for the charm, I find the above witch totally charming (and I'm bored with moe, appreciation worse than someone who never liked it from the start I guess).

The timing, again, I don't think the timing of the above LWA cuts is bad, though the feeling it gives off is different from a Disney's. Didn't care to analyze it myself but it'd come from the way Japanese vary modulate timing and spacing, originally because of the fewer drawings, to make it match a fluid movement even with fewer drawing, there might be a special way of spacing, which gives a more bouncy (and a bit jerkier) movement. Though I didn't study that difference thoroughly and the theory seems a bit weird to my brain.

>>2706764
>>2706755
(continued)

As for the acting in their own special way... There's kind of that too in Yoshinari's, maybe not as marked, but the cartoony movements applied to overall aesthetic makes up for it, since it's more a balance between the character's personality and the show/artist's personality.

I prefer anime as there's more personality, Disney is technically strong (even if they have "tropes" that I don't like as said earlier),

It's also not a typical golden age cartoon is the sense of it's stylized with those as a foundation but the emphasis is not on the characters quirky personalities (down to the animation I mean), since it's even more cheap than US limited TV animation of the 40's and despite this they found ways to make up for it... elsewhere than in animation. It's just a different blend, not objectively worse.

You might want to say "objectively worse, in terms of animation" but who said the fuller the animation, the best? If someone said that, it must be a Disney.

>>2706764
>>2706767

Again when I say charm I'm not talking about the drawing I'm talking about the acting.

I don't quite follow what you mean in this line
>As for the charm, I find the above witch totally charming (and I'm bored with moe, appreciation worse than someone who never liked it from the start I guess).

As for this line
>You might want to say "objectively worse, in terms of animation" but who said the fuller the animation, the best? If someone said that, it must be a Disney.

The animation isn't just fuller there's much more care and effort put into it. And your right, to quote the illusion of life:

>...good animation doesn't save a bad story, but a good story can save bad animation.

>>2706755
I did not see your Mowgly video. I don't like it. Like, when he's rotating his legs, it feels so smooth, unrealistically smooth, anime sometimes jerky animation has it cons but it depicts well how erratic some movements can be, the gaps of timing can give a sense of inaccuracy to the movement, making it feel more real to me. Or there might be other things, again I didn't push the analysis but I'd be interested if someone has ideas.

Maybe I'm just imagining things but I don't think so, I'd appreciate that you don't consider that I'm biased because I'm trying hard not to be and to consider every of Disney's qualities (and cons, that are easy for me).

>Again when I say charm I'm not talking about the drawing I'm talking about the acting.

Sure, I agree then, but I find a charm to LWAs animation, don't know if you're right or wrong or if both right, or wrong.

>I don't quite follow what you mean in this line
>>As for the charm, I find the above witch totally charming (and I'm bored with moe, appreciation worse than someone who never liked it from the start I guess).

I meant that some people start by disliking something and never want or try to like it, it's just not their thing. I grew up with anime so I did not mind moe (meaning cute glassy eyed girls, but there's more to Yoshinari's) but now I grew bored of this classic, cliché and industrial approach. And I'm just making assumptions on human psyche and generalization when I say that someone that went to like => dislike is more agressive on the subject than someone who never cared.

>As for this line
>>You might want to say "objectively worse, in terms of animation" but who said the fuller the animation, the best? If someone said that, it must be a Disney.

The definition of full animation differed every time I've seen it used, some use it for animation on 1s, and some use limited to describe all the means to save costs on TV animations, like reduced drawing rate and less care and effort put into it.

>>2706774
If someone as a definite meaning for full animation and limited, somewhat official, I'd take it, but even informed people seemed to use it however they pleased.

>The animation isn't just fuller there's much more care and effort put into it.

And finally, I agree that it is logical to think that when there's more care and effort (which is true since those are movies, Disney movies, they respect their art for sure) the end result would be better, and the worker would be respectable for his involvement and taking the time to care.

But more time doesn't always equal to better results, or I'd rather want to say that less time doesn't always equal to worse since I'm defending anime and not bashing Disney. An analogy would be to compare it to cooking, a quick meal can be great in taste, presentation, nutritional value, everything you want, compared to a longer-to-prepare meal that is exactly the same in terms of nutritional value, but is different in presentation and "as good" in taste. How do you put one over another? I don't think you really can, they both are valuable.


You could say that the cook was more involved, put more heart, but that's not always he case too, you can work intensely in little time, or work less in longer time, you can also work inspired and with love, and work long without love. I mean the end results of Disney is usually good (great) and the workers sure are persevering but I wouldn't take such facts to judge the animation. That's not what you did, you did the reverse, judging the people's passion at Disney from the quality of their animation, though.

I'm talking shit aren't I, why do I write huge random texts like that. But I really feel it's important, a fight between US vs JP is dumb but there's greatness in both, so the best would be to understand both and if possible to merge what can be merged. Maybe those are simply incompatible and different approaches after all. I'm boring myself sorry.

>>2706774
>>2706780

>I did not see your Mowgly video. I don't like it.
>I'd appreciate that you don't consider that I'm biased because I'm trying hard not to be

You sound very biased. You're just reaching to say something negative right there. I'm not saying that I'm not biased either. Of course I'm biased otherwise i wouldn't be arguing in the first place.

>sometimes jerky animation has it cons but it depicts well how erratic some movements can be, the gaps of timing can give a sense of inaccuracy to the movement, making it feel more real to me.

That's what secondary action is for.

>The definition of full animation differed every time I've seen it used, some use it for animation on 1s, and some use limited to describe all the means to save costs on TV animations, like reduced drawing rate and less care and effort put into it.

Disney animates on 2's as for budget a silly symphony today would cost just over $500K to make.

>judging the people's passion at Disney from the quality of their animation, though.

Do you really think that the guy's at Disney didn't like what they were doing?

>you can work intensely in little time

It takes Disney 18 months to make a movie. Most of that time goes into inking, painting and filming. They only spend 3 - 6 months on the actual animation.

>a fight between US vs JP is dumb but there's greatness in both

You make very good arguments. At this point I'm just sharing animation trivia. So let's make comparison. Not to show which is better, just to show some interesting facts. I already showed some of Disney's specs like frame rate, budget, production time, etc.

>>2706742
>go watch some real anime.

I could say the same to you. Go watch some real cartoons.

>I prefer anime as there's more personality
> inspired Yoshinari

I'm >>2706791 And I'm just pointing out just how biased you actually sound

>>2706791
>You sound very biased. You're just reaching to say something negative right there. I'm not saying that I'm not biased either. Of course I'm biased otherwise i wouldn't be arguing in the first place.

I don't think I'm biased in the way I think of it when I was talking about it. I want to stay open-minded, I can't force you to state your reasoning of why Mowgly animation isn't unrealistic but I'm open to hearing it, though I'm not sure I'll be able to swallow the point of view, in that sense I'm biased but gotta keep some individuality until I pondered what you said for a while. Of course I have my preferences and I can't like everything, though I wouldn't mind liking it, it's not that I don't want to like it, it doesn't look good to me for the stated reasons.

>That's what secondary action is for.

Secondary action is fine but it doesn't always save the look of the end result, I guess you mean you can overlap actions to give a sense of what I said, I can see it working in my head but it doesn't create the illusion the same way, as said I've never seen people moving like Mowgly from your vid, he looks like a kind of ragdoll.

>Disney animates on 2's as for budget a silly symphony today would cost just over $500K to make.

500K$ is still ~2 times higher than the highest budget anime episode of all time.

>Disney animates on 2's

I've read that somewhere. I don't know, it's possible and would be easy to check, and that's why my brain couldn't compute the so-called Japanese modulated timing or something, but I'm sure it's real, it's easy to feel that the characters move differently, not especially worse or better, but less regularly (Disney's animation arcs mostly look like human-crafted Flash tweens with added care for squashiness and more mindful spacing to me). Really gotta analyze in depth how it's different, the ones talking about it said the breakdowns were spaced differently. Well I'm not sure if such little changes could affect the whole feeling.

>Do you really think that the guy's at Disney didn't like what they were doing?

I don't, I said earlier than the guys at Disney sure are passionate, it shows in the way they talk about it. My line was ambiguous.

>It takes Disney 18 months to make a movie. Most of that time goes into inking, painting and filming. They only spend 3 - 6 months on the actual animation.

If you say so, I don't know, but I didn't mean that they didn't work intensely, just that the timely amount of work doesn't mean much as it is depending on a lot of things.

>At this point I'm just sharing animation trivia. So let's make comparison. Not to show which is better, just to show some interesting facts. I already showed some of Disney's specs like frame rate, budget, production time, etc.

Yeah, I'm gonna post some things that I like in anime and can't find in most of other Western features. A bit later, though, I gotta go.

The interesting thing is how anime achieved new things through limitations. What can at first look like objective inferiority is tweaked to be as solid in its approach as a fuller one, in the end like I said, it's just a difference in how to think animation, or style. I'll develop but I get it that you can have a hard time swallowing the point of view, as I can't accept some of Disney's tropes as being acceptable even if most people say so.

I've lost faith in art authorities a while ago, I judge on feeling (final result) and logic (inner workings) and feelings applied to logic (tweaking the objective best to trigger a feel that wasn't made with objective best), so I can't trust anyone, not even me since I'm far from being really knowledgeable, but I can't swallow when people say a thing is of lesser quality when I feel it's still good in its own way, like if it's different in the end.

In the end it's all so subjective it kills me. Even objective best is not contextually the best answer.

>>2706750
I can tell you this now, if that is what that other anon projected on with that comment, I'd take that animation far more over 'Mericshit tweening and moeAnime shit by a landslide.

>>2706816
I'll add a thing now.

I won't deny that Japanese limited animation, despite having smartly tweaked constraints to make a strength out of them, isn't very cheap in a lot of areas. The inbetweens are just fillers and usually of bad quality or simply tweaked traces, the key frames themselves aren't always of best quality, the priority when well animated is often given to action/effect animation and the recent webgen trend (self promoted animators through the web that made it) tend to promote a loose but very dynamic style, though if they passed through Disney, they would get a bit of refinement, finishing touches.

But that's actually one of the good things. In Disney you get opulence, nearly 0 errors, and you have rich animation, despite its mannerism (can reproach the same to manga-style acting).

In anime you don't get everything, and that makes the best stand out. That's actually one of the selling point of the "sakuga" thing when general anime public started realizing and theorizing on the differences and what makes anime special. It boils down to, anime is special because it's cheap, but also anime approach animation more stylistically (the style is apparent, like apparent brushes on a painting) and the Disney approach is not willing to be other than an Illusion of Life. While you can certainly recognize animator's touch in Disney, it's way more visible in anime because that's one of the appeal since the early days, when Tezuka used smart direction instead of Disney's level animation.

This contrasts makes the charm of anime. Contrasting styles in one single episode, contrasting styles in different series, and contrast of moralities of their art (a lot of shit and a few super ambitious ones, for animated work, where else do you find things animations like GITS?).

Opulence and perfection is boring, I find, it's too rigorous, both as a watcher and as an artist.

>>2706804
>why Mowgly animation isn't unrealistic.

How is it unrealistic exactly? He tries climbing the tree and slips and falls and tries to regain himself. If you're talking about the fact that it's slightly exaggerated, then your kinda full of shit, it's a cartoon after all.

>There's kind of that too in Yoshinari's, maybe not as marked, but the cartoony movements applied to overall aesthetic makes up for it

And this statement seems to contradict your current statement. Why is it wrong if Mowgli is unrealistic, but it's okay if Yoshinari has cartooney movements? You fucking hypocrite.

>I've never seen people moving like Mowgly from your vid, he looks like a kind of ragdoll

Mowgli didn't move like a ragdoll your just reaching to say something negative. And besides people do move like ragdolls when they fall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGmMO3Y8a_w

>500K$ is still ~2 times higher than the highest budget anime episode of all time.

Maybe that's because Disney animators work harder. And if you want to bring up the argument that Japanese animators are overworked, just remember what you said in this line.

>But more time doesn't always equal to better results, or I'd rather want to say that less time doesn't always equal to worse

>>2706833
>Disney approach is not willing to be other than an Illusion of Life

You don't know what animation means then do you?

>anime is special because it's cheap

A looney tune today would cost $20K - $60K to make and even that has much better animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8ZG2CSWypI

This also what made looney tunes so charming.

>but also anime approach animation more stylistically

Again watch Fantasia.

>>2706835
>How is it unrealistic exactly?

Limbs are weird, physic is weird. I don't know what they strive for, but yes it isn't realistic. And it's not the cartoon I like either, but whatever.

>And this statement seems to contradict your current statement. Why is it wrong if Mowgli is unrealistic, but it's okay if Yoshinari has cartooney movements? You fucking hypocrite.

I'm not saying it's wrong if that's what's intended.

>Mowgli didn't move like a ragdoll your just reaching to say something negative.

No?

>Maybe that's because Disney animators work harder. And if you want to bring up the argument that Japanese animators are overworked, just remember what you said in this line.

I don't care that's not the point.

>You don't know what animation means then do you?

Moving drawings? Or even, moving things? Dance is animation, the science of how things move, in a purer form than movement translated through drawings or 3D models: direct body interaction. Maybe far fetched but I don't think that's plain wrong to extend it to dance.

What was your intention with this reply? I'm not sure to get it, something wrong with what I said about Disney?

>A looney tune today would cost $20K - $60K to make

I don't think it would cost so low... The Japanese really are paid like slaves and it's even lesser than that.

Better animated, I wouldn't say that, but it sure is more comparable to anime than Disney. I love Looney Tunes and all though. Sometimes I wonder if it's not with the animation on 2s-1s that I have a problem most of all, but I've seen some like this that passed well as anime (Akira in OP).

>This also what made looney tunes so charming.

Talking about the inherent limitations of the approach, and the need to tweak things?

>Again watch Fantasia.

I'll do, but I'm not sure you understand what I meant, when I say stylistically it's down to the movement, it's sometimes apparent that it's actually a moving drawing rather than a drawing that incarnates a soul.

>>2706452
>>2706455
When you're comparing current American animation industry and Japanese animation industry, taking a 70 year old example is completely irrelevant.

Yes I agree that comparing an animated feature film to tv cartoon is unfair and cherrypicking, but the sentiment is still correct, that the american animation industry has pretty much abandoned traditional frame by frame character animation.

>>2706541
>>2706544
Yeah, I meant because the head was moving upward.

>>2703357
made me laugh that you used me screwing around in toonboom as a "valid comparison" of western animation.

>>2706849

>Mowgli didn't move like a ragdoll your just reaching to say something negative.
>No?

That's not a valid answer

>Limbs are weird, physic is weird.

No

>Maybe that's because Disney animators work harder. And if you want to bring up the argument that Japanese animators are overworked, just remember what you said in this line.

>I don't care that's not the point.

That's the whole premise of the argument, moron. Which is better east or west?

>You don't know what animation means then do you?
>Moving drawings? Or even, moving things? Dance is animation, the science of how things move, in a purer form than movement translated through drawings or 3D models: direct body interaction. Maybe far fetched but I don't think that's plain wrong to extend it to dance.

Animation is the illusion of life which makes this statement retarded.
>Disney approach is not willing to be other than an Illusion of Life

Why would Disney animation want to be anything other than Disney animation.

>I don't think it would cost so low

Friz Freleng said in an interview that the cartoon "you oughta be in pictures" costed $2K to make. that's $20K today.

>Talking about the inherent limitations of the approach

Looney tunes had a shoestring budget and remember this was back when animation was still being figured out so the principles of animation didn't exist yet.

>I say stylistically it's down to the movement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4MQ7GzE6HY

> a drawing that incarnates a soul.

That sounds like Disney to me.

>>2706854
Again Don Bluth is making a new 2D movie. So let's compare Dragon's Lair to current anime.

Also the fact that the US was able to make quality animation 76 years ago stands as a testament to how great they were.

And do you relay think that the Renaissance animators are all gone? Disney still has 2D animators it's just that the western audience doesn't want to see 2D animation anymore, They prefer 3D. And the same rules apply to 3D animation.

>>2706931
Same anon here. Just on a side not Disney said that his ultimate goal in animation was to create a "marriage between picture and sound". He did this by stylistically timing the movements to the music. In fact if it were up to Disney they would only make movies like Fantasia. But since Disney was also a businessman he had to sacrifice that dream in favor monetary success. People didn't want to see movies like fantasia so they went back to the classic Disney style. And today the same thing happened. People don't like 2D anymore so they're making 3D films. They would much rather make 2D, but they won't because they won't earn any money. That Doesn't mean that Disney can't do 2D anymore.

>>2707122
now that doesnt make sense. The tits are supposed to go over the head. Now they just kinda twist somehwere around his shaft

>>2706931
I'm not saying American animators are worse than Japanese animators. In fact it's very much the opposite. Western character animation is million times better than Japanese (due to the different ways the two industries evolved), but if American animators are not allowed to apply their fantastic talent into making 2D feature productions, then there is no way I could justify the American 2D industry to be better than the Japanese.

If an industry filled with talented animators does not allow its artists to perform their craft, then how is that a good industry? The fact of the matter is that traditional frame by frame animation in America is nonexistent in comparison to Japan.

Japanese traditional animation industry is better than their American counterpart, because the Americans are not ALLOWED to be great.

>>2707189
>>2706931
This was in response to this
>Disney still has 2D animators it's just that the western audience doesn't want to see 2D animation anymore, They prefer 3D. And the same rules apply to 3D animation.

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>>2707189
>Americans are not ALLOWED to be great

Exactly! I think we finally found something to agree on. Besides I don't hate Anime either. I actually really like the Miyazaki films. they've got good stories, imaginative worlds, beautiful artistry and interesting characters. However I admit that I will always have a much greater soft spot for Disney than anime. After all it's Disney that made me want to become an animator. I was just trying to defend American animation because this asshole >>2703357 used this guy's stuff >>2706920 to compare western and eastern animation. So I propose this:

Maybe we should consider that symbol animation shouldn't represent western industry animation, because it doesn't. We should instead understand that the true face of modern western animation is pic related. Like I said countless times before. The same people who made Aladdin lent their hind in the making of these films.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just the evolution of the medium. Just like how cartoons went from looking like Betty Boop back in the 30's to looking like Ariel in the 80's now cartoons look like Elsa in the 2010's. Some people like a few of the Disney animators who are now retired hated this change so much that they left the industry to further pursue in their own traditional 2D endeavors. So that they can be allowed to do what they want to do and not what the industry wants them to do.

>>2705740
>>2706571
Damn, it worked for me. Did you try running in administrator mode?

Also, the video guide was in windows 10, that's what I'm using too. Maybe that has something to do with it? Can't think of anything to help you anons.

>> a drawing that incarnates a soul.

>That sounds like Disney to me

yeah I was referring to disney

i like it very much

>Exactly! I think we finally found something to agree on.

that's not me but I don't mind, as long as the discussion continues if the "parties" can find a agreement point it's good,i'm lazy to respond now, maybe i'll add something later

>That's the whole premise of the argument, moron. Which is better east or west?


straying on a budget discussion or how poor they in their respective industry are wasn't my initial intention

>Animation is the illusion of life which makes this statement retarded.

lol why would animation be the illusion of life? according to disney maybe

>Why would Disney animation want to be anything other than Disney animation.

dunno

>>2707465
>i like it very much

the fantasia video I meant

(couldn't see the first one on YT)

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>>2705451
Hopped on Flipnote and shat this out to get me back in the animating spirit

>>2707257
pretty extreme mental gymnastics there. Don't get a brain hermia

>>2706444
hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo man that's going good

>>2706008
lol uh oh bro, do your research, they hire outside help to do inbetweening even on student projects.

>>2704869
mmmmmmmmnow try doing a head turn?

>>2707257
It makes me think, I like how Frozen and the likes look. I don't really like how 2D disney looks, I don't really like how Betty Boops looks, but I like how Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny and cie look.

Obviously I like how anime looks most of the time.

Can't really explain, even if I tried to say they didn't have the same lines or forms.

But since I appreciate more 3D disney (or is it pixar I don't follow this shit) maybe it's really how the westerners draw that I don't like since 3D is modeled and not hand drawn (obv).

And concerning you talking about 3D vs 2D (briefly), I wanted to post this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwTjs0R7MEM

I find what he says interesting, about 3D being a purer approach to animation than 2D.

File: Project 1 (rough animatics).gif (745KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

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I got this REALLY rough animatic i just started. It's like 1/5 done.

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working on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5xCCR1e0tA

>>2704713
Sad, but inspiring to see the last great North American animators being so grassroots.
The system has abandoned them.

I swear these threads are less about posting WIP animations and more about east vs west elitism

>>2707890
well THIS thread anyway

>>2707890
It's usually some baiting western fag making weebs butthurt. Both sets of animation are great, and we should be working to be able to achieve that level instead of arguing which set is better.

>>2707946
>western fag making weebs butthurt
akshully other way around

though westerners would be more like >>>/3/ while weebs are >muh trad frame-by-frame
(either one are both impressive)

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>>2706821
It's Yoh Yoshinari's Little Witch Academia

Not all animu is that bad, there is a fair good bunch

>>2708035
serialized < feature

Always

ALWAYS

>>2707890
Well part of it is the fact that people don't even bother to reply to some wips. A lot of people post their work but only get 1 reply or sometimes no reply so there's no discussion about it.

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>>2704005
NinjaSlayer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwdLzNSBIYY

I like both anime and western animation, but i feel like there is no definitive "look" for western animation, this causes the look of western animation to evolve and have more variety aesthetically.
You get stuff like adventure time, and ren and stimpy, and the simpsons, and king of the hill, and they all look different.
While anime is always some big eyes "uguuuuuu" looking shit.

The thing Japanese animation does to well, is have variety story wise, the japs know animation shouldn't be pigeonholed just for children like it is in the west, you could make an anime thats a pure drama or aimed at older people, although children deserve cartoons as well

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>>2707640
I stayed up too long adding on bullshit to this
I think I'm gonna make it a full-on scene and write out the rest of the story (which I'm not gonna animate).
>>2707827
This looks really neat, it's coming along nicely. Do you already have a MonkeyJam set up?

File: Yoshinari.webm (1MB, 1130x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2708035
Funny you mention Yoh because he is a big westaboo and therefore his animation is more "western" than usual anime

>>2708117
>You get stuff like adventure time, and ren and stimpy, and the simpsons, and king of the hill, and they all look different.
>While anime is always some big eyes "uguuuuuu" looking shit.

are you for real

there's way more aesthetic variety in anime, the real ousiders of western animation are movies like a scanner darkly, waltz with bashir, ernest & celestine and things

in cartoon there's the same differences between king of the hill and adventure time as there's difference between k-on and ghost in the shell SAC

but where in cartoon do you find series like kaiba, casshern sins, lain, kenshin tsuioku hen, monster, and there's a ton more, varying from realist proportions to goofy cartoon and abstract aesthetic

It's so hard to keep consistency between two following frame when going into "detail" (not so actually, just the mouth and eyes), how the fuck do you do?

>>2708099
I was disappointed, I'd have thought it would be fun if they pushed the concept of limited animation to the max, like, being ugly (but funny) most of the time and being 500% amazing at times, but the amazing was nearly inexistant and it was way below 100%.

Though Luluco was better. And I liked the use of minimalist animation and slides in KLK, for comedic purpose.

itt clueless people with misinformed opinions on animation

>>2708277
>misinformed opinions
prove it fag

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>>2706444
done with adding in the body for the second half.

seriously thinking of just re-doing the first half since this all started as a head-turning exercise and if all i had made was the first part then i would have fucking FAILED. I'm gonna do it.

>>2708343
Looks fake when she settles in. She needs to have a reaction for when she's recovering from the fall, her smile at the end is her resting face, she needs a recover face.

>>2708402
Any examples you'd like tto provide?

>>2708126
anon I love it do you have a blog or anything

Is Laika the flag bearer for stop motion now? What happened to the Eastern European scene

>>2708402
>>2708422
or like, anything to illustrate your point further? I don't entirely get it.

>>2708426
niiikooooo.tumblr.com/tagged/i_drew_this
I don't animate as much as I'd like to, so my animation tag is pretty bare.

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>>2708035
Thanks, I'm really liking this stuff
>>2708169
Yet that's exactly what both sides of the coin have in common as a problem, stagnation. moeAnime is like the root of all evil in Nipland, pic related, and FlashShit is the problem current in Merica, i.e, Johnny Test or the latest/recent thing, Magisword. That "western" thing you're talking about is of the Looney Toons era; all of that stretching and deforming of the body parts, making the animu characters look more "cartoonish". Which I like. I didn't mind this back in the Shonen days, see DBZ or Bleach, but after a while, I miss the days cartoons actually were, well, cartoons; Disney ala Mickey and Looney Toons; Bugs Bunny. And when it comes to >>2706750, >>2708035 and >>2708169, I like seeing characters look lively and animated, as what most "western" cartoons were like back in the mid-early 90s.

>>2708490
Ash was redesigned to help the animators create exactly what you want, more detailed and creative animation. Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBH3IYRjaw

>>2708508
>>2708490
Yeah it's thought to be more animation friendly, not really moe. Cartoonish is animation friendly, bu obviously it has some Japanese twist to it.

Doga Kobo anime are pure moe but the animation is lively enough, for example, though not at the level of LWA. By the way, the LWA TV series trailer is out and the animation is disappointingly less lively...

https://youtu.be/JUVaeqAWnQI

There are some studios and directors that are more prone to cartoon influence, Gainax has always had a bit of a cartoon feel since Kare Kano/FLCL, KyoAni has K-ON!, and Junichi Sato and his one era collaborators like Takuya Igarashi also use goofy and kinda Looney Tooney at times animation.

Even if that's often cheaper.

https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/747172264408383489
https://twitter.com/bug_tho/status/710514213576290304
https://twitter.com/feezy_feez/status/744018941094273024
https://twitter.com/feezy_feez/status/736004750148141056
https://twitter.com/feezy_feez/status/737494807933657088
https://twitter.com/jimmygnome9/status/736222029054087168
https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/719547656872325120
https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/767067205297139712

>>2708508
Well, that was rather interesting. So I guess that is the reasoning behind the direction of Pokemon design as of late, but at the same time, I guess it's more the style of the characters that doesn't set with me atm, maybe it's too soon to judge really. However I find this part of the video quite interesting;
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBH3IYRjaw&t=5m30s
>People actually prefer characters being more on model than not.
Is this the result of "puppet" animation becoming more mainstream? Pertaining to the west for one? Even I will admit, I actually like "Sinnoh Era" Ash the most in design, but it was rather limited in animation. I'm almost inclined to say if changing a style with more "basic" features to help making animators have more freedom, it says a lot how much the level of control over a character design like Ash's is rather below the standards I would have thought. I'd feel giving more push to the old style having more freedom would be better than starting anew, but then again, they did say they were getting use to something new, so I guess I understand.

Speaking of, they used ToonBoom for all this, I'm considered maybe I should take a crack at it. Is it free or does it have to be purchased to use?

>>2708525
Oh I forgot but a lot of those examples from Doga Kobo and even the LWA trailer remind me of the previous discussion when the guy said it was jerky and not as smooth as Disney, I said I liked the look even if it was objectively less smooth, the final effect on the eye wasn't displeasing to me, they achieved to make it on par.

As an ESL I couldn't find the word I read for that, which spoke to me, but now I remember, snappier is the word, I said jumpy and all, but snappier is really the best word.

>>2708528
I'm not really fond of the designs, though I like the approach. Those designs look more like Digimon Tamers to me, it's rather weird.

>Is this the result of "puppet" animation becoming more mainstream?

I think it's the result that anime watchers aren't used to this (and in the circles of people more interested that general public, they know more or less about the cheap in-between plague, and they often fail to see any exaggerated smear as something else that an animation error).

Anime has always more been about stills with cool poses/faces rather than goofy movements. It must been said that it doesn't go well with every anime either, the Pain battle was a huge controversy, I don't watch Naruto but I can understand how it didn't fit the mood. Though I liked the animation.

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>>2708538
>Those designs look more like Digimon Tamers to me, it's rather weird.
You know, I didn't even noticed that, it might be the small eyes making you think that. I actually liked Digimon's designs, usually, at least the first 4 seasons of them.
Pokemon though, doesn't feel the same to be in that style, imo. It doesn't help how everyone (myself included) have been saying Pokemon been going the same route of Digimon (Megas, less animal-ish Pokemon (this is a grey area), and other similarities.)

And to that rest of your post, I agree to that, pretty much all of it. I've noticed that myself how others see smears and thinks inbetweens and other things are errors when they are not. I think it's just a evolution, maybe things can move towards this direction and people will like it over time. I personally want more of >>2706750 and >>2708035 in the east, and the west, ala Warner and Disney.

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Here is a rough I'm doing. I'm very new to animation and would like to get better. If anyone can provide feedback or guidance, I would be very appreciative.

>>2708598
Maybe have the lease pull on the lizard a bit more?

It's not bad for a rough. Elaborate on it more if you want.

>>2708615
*leash

>>2708598
I like the idea, i really do.
what kind of lizard are you shooting for here?

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>>2708615
Oh yeah, I'll try that thank you!
>>2708621
Thanks! I'm not sure what type of lizard I want yet. maybe something like pic related.

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I made these animations on flipnote atleast 2 years ago. I think they look decent so please rip me apart so I can lean how to fix my shit before I attempt animation again. I'm reading OP as I post.

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>>2708741

>>2708126
Added even more bullshit to this

There's maybe a few more cuts and then I'll call this scene "finished"
Whether or not I actually clean this up remains to be seen.
If anyone needs context, I don't mind typing it out

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>>2708769
It would help to attach the gif, wouldn't it

>>2707827
>>2708126
No, i don't have Monkey Jam, but it seems to be a very useful software. For recording, i build a camera sustain using 2 piles of books and 2 sticks

>>2703357
Lot of shows are crappily animated but have tons of merit. Bojack horseman is one.

>>2708800
In terms of writing you mean? Maybe.

But it's true there are a ton of shows in anime that could have been good, that started good, but that are meh, because the writing. I don't know if it's cultural but it's so weird, that Japanese consistently take weird path for their stories, like fucking them up from an Westerner point of view.

The thread is animation so I don't want to go too much off topic (even if we're more supposed to post WIPs sorry, but theory and understanding of new ends for animation can be interesting too to study), but I found this blog earlier >>2706640

>http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com/2013/09/guide-to-japanese-animation.html
>http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com/search/label/Anime
>http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com/search/label/Manga

And the guy is surprisingly enthusiast about anime, something I wouldn't have expected for someone approaching the title of old-timer, and working in a classical cartoon environment at Disney. Like, he discovered about anime in the late 80's maybe, but his enthusiasm is interesting, I'm not used to see this type of open-minded profile, generally there's always bias and some kind of favoritism, but maybe that's just what I see.

But he also warns in one of his articles that Japanese storylines are a bit "wonky", so I find it funny that even a seemingly honest and pionner enthusiast acknowledge that fact. I think so too.

I've never read Japanese literature but I've already heard people saying it was weird (well, Murakami is one of the most well known and it's surrealism so that might be why) but Japanese movies sure go in their own way too for what I've seen (Kitano's, Kore-Eda's, etc).

It's weird.

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What do you think?

>>2708876
Holy shit that's fast moving, kinda hard to get a read on it when it's going so quick. I do think you could space your frames less evenly though, have it hold at the top and pull up faster than it goes down etc

>>2707708
Yeah, maybe.

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>>2708741
>>2708742
>Jho noises instensify

>>2702339
I read on the internet that you are misinformed.

>>2708876
FASTER

>>2708525
>the LWA TV series trailer is out and the animation is disappointingly less lively...
What a shock that a TV anime has worse animation than a movie.

>>2709190
What a shock that Trigger could not be KyoAni like they wanted. I had hope that Yoh Yoshinari would succeed to make a difference.

>>2708343
hmm, the arm's are a little too uniform, maybe ease them in or ease out? Also if you believe Richard Williams, you should time them to move differently, avoid twinning the action, ahh, as in, one should be slightly delayed behind the other

>>2709353
You mean when shes about to settle down?

Okay. Something did bug me about them. I'll try it out.

>>2709353
>>2709357
Ok how about I have one of the arms ease in and the other ease out? That's what I just came up with.

>>2708876
so fucking stiff, learn squash and stretch bruh

>>2709732
dicks are supposed to be stiff anon.

>>2709757
Not entirely
Besides, animation is about the illusion of movement, not capturing things exactly as they work irl
Limbs don't break upon wild takes, they just look that way

>>2709768
My dick's harder than concrete. I don't know what's wrong with yours anon.

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>>2708343
file got corrupted while I was saving because my computer decided to crash on me.

this is the last .gif i outputted.

fuck me.

>>2709779
Keep at it yo

>>2709789
how? just work off the gif?

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>>2709789
>>2709790
well I guess I could. this isn't so bad. I could still shade shit with the auto select tool.l

alright, i'll try and finish this by tomorrow so i don't clog up this thread with the same shit.

>>2708490
>Looney Toons

Hang yourself please.

Anime Vs Western Posts:
>>2703357 >>2703367 >>2703378 >>2703446 >>2703511 >>2703647 >>2703949 >>2703962 >>2703990 >>2704005 >>2704026 >>2704068 >>2704092 >>2704096 >>2704569 >>2704598 >>2704713 >>2705674 >>2705992 >>2706008 >>2706027 >>2706109 >>2706129 >>2706159 >>2706176 >>2706200 >>2706248 >>2706252 >>2706253 >>2706395 >>2706411 >>2706452 >>2706455 >>2706470 >>2706480 >>2706510 >>2706511 >>2706515 >>2706522 >>2706527 >>2706708 >>2706711 >>2706738 >>2706742 >>2706750 >>2706755 >>2706764 >>2706767 >>2706770 >>2706774 >>2706780 >>2706791 >>2706799 >>2706804 >>2706816 >>2706821 >>2706833 >>2706835 >>2706840 >>2706849 >>2706854 >>2706920 >>2706931 >>2706944 >>2707189 >>2707257 >>2707190 >>2707465 >>2707738 >>2707850 >>2708035 >>2708099 >>2708117 >>2708169 >>2708173 >>2708490 >>2708525 >>2708508 >>2708528 >>2708530 >>2708538 >>2708551 >>2708557 >>2708800 >>2708808 >>2709190 >>2709263

Actual WIP Images:
>>2702255 >>2702350 >>2702486 >>2703246 >>2704163 >>2704574 >>2704869 >>2705300 >>2705350 >>2705451 >>2706131 >>2706268 >>2706444 >>2706616 >>2707122 >>2707805 >>2707827 >>2708126 >>2708343 >>2708598 >>2708741 >>2708742 >>2708770 >>2708876 >>2709779 >>2709817

It's actually kinda sad ain't it? People come here to post their work to get critique because they want to improve and then there's all this bickering about something as subjective as art. Just remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

>>2709974
Improve what?

In Japanese direction? Or in US direction?

Or randomly? Would be better to improve with a goal in mind. Good goal would be merging elements of the best there is.

>>2708340

Not the same anon, but, prove him wrong then. He's actually right.

You people don't know what you're talking about and you don't know what your doing. I've been looking at modern web animators animate and it makes me cringe seeing all the things they do wrong. For instance the timeline. You people seem to think that you can just add and remove images to time your animation. That's an absolute waste of fucking time and resources. Try doing that on pencil and paper. You have to be able to plan your animation ahead of time so that you know what your doing and can have a more comfortable time working. I'm talking about timing charts btw. This sounds like a minor thing but trust me it's a fundamental necessity when it comes to hand drawn animation. Timing charts are more than just charts that tell you how long an action takes. They also tell you where the drawings must sit. Whether it's an ease in or an ease out both of which are principles of animation. In fact By not utilizing timing charts you begin to ignore both timing/spacing and ease ins/outs. That in general bothers me when web animators ignore the principles of animation. Using mouth flaps instead of actually drawing the the jaw opening and closing to convey squash and stretch or not using secondary action and anticipation.

So please prove to him that you know what you know what you're doing.

>>2709974
Maybe people come here to bicker and debate something as subjective as art.

Maybe people come here to shitpost and waste time in between doing other things.

Maybe most people here aren't as serious about posting their work & improving as you thought they were.

Welcome to /ic/.

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pst
http://imgur.com/a/hLGR4
It's that talent-less 3Dguy again

>>2709974
art isnt subjective

>>2710268
If you actually think this then you must not be a very creative person

>>2701480
too bad the industry i so shitty and that we mostly get stiff animation because of it. Fuckin hell.

>>2701482
works like a charm on Chrome, thanks

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>>2709974
Just remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
That's been an excuse since the dawn of time. It's an excuse for the beholder to have shit taste, but NOT an excuse to make shit art and animation. What's the fucking point of trying to make something amazing when 99% fuck retard humans don't have standards anymore? That's basically what you said, what you wanted.

And btw, I'm at least 5 of those anons from the "Anime Vs Western" part and 2 of the other part, not even including that I posted wips before in the previous thread as well. Everyone has the right to complain about what's right, working on making animation have better, long turn standards from both the West and East, and still can do so while doing wips, like myself, based on what can inspire themselves upon.

tl;dr: Thank you for the useless bump replying to everyone in the thread just because you don't want to see natural human behavior transpire, and instead want to hugbox shit animation.

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I'm going to see Yoshimi Itazu's new film Pig Tails in a few days and there's a Q&A at the end with Yoshimi himself.
I can't think what to ask, Is there anything you guys want me to ask and I can tell you what he says.

>>2710348
Falco might be the only character I actually like in Star Fox

And yes you made some very good points. People tend to twist around phrases like that and I didn't even think about it the way you described until now. It's probably why I never liked that excuse, seems like a justification for garbage.

Also not the one you replied to

>>2710287
not gonna make it

>>2710436
I'm not denying the existence of "good" and "bad" art, there are factors that remain objective. However if you fixate yourself on an idea of art that you think the world agrees is objectively good then you will never create anything unique. You must have some sort of identity for your art to be remembered, and "objectively good" art doesn't necessarily have that.

>>2709974
Thank you for compliling the good posts.Saved me the trouble of wading through all the garbage.

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Excuse the watermark, I used a phone app

>>2710364
Fuckin sweet. Ask him to define what good animation is to him!

>>2710364
Ask him what his gitting gud routine is/was

holy shit tvpaint is like really hard to use. is it okay that i start with that program or is that irrelevant when starting out?

>>2711183
All you need is something to draw with and something to flip the pages with. You don't have to worry about every feature TVPaint has. All you have to know is that it doesn't have a separate eraser tool. The keybindings are weird, tho, I spent quite a lot of time tinkering with them before I got it to work the way I wanted it to.

>>2710348
I wasn't trying to censor anyone. I was just pointing out the toxic/unproductive nature of the discussion. And I was specifically talking about Anime vs Western. Or do you think that one is better than the other? And I agree most of YOU have shit taste as well. But see now you're gonna disagree because in your mind you have good taste don't you?

>>2710001
I like your post I think you hit the nail right on the head.

>>2703367
This does pretty much sum up the shit that gets pumped out of CalArts and shat onto Cartoon Network.

>>2709980
>merging elements

You take what YOU like and leave what YOU don't like. If you want to be objectively better then you will have to abandon Japanese animation entirely, because it's inferior to western (1940's) animation in every possible aspect.

>>2711233
The only CN originals with tweened animation are Magiswords and Gumball, with the latter being a UK production

>>2711227
Being passive agressive like that isn't going to add to your case. And sure, opinions can show I have shit taste, but what can't be whitewashed, is that I have standards. I know what looks good, what's been worked on with passion, actual, genuine care for their project; aka, Quality. Something I don't see in the west as much as the east, and not just muh Nips, Frenchies have better standards even when they use Flashshit Animation. After the era that gave us Looney Toons and even late 90/early 2000s Disney shows, seeing all this low quality cash grab shows shitted out by channels like CN, it's just so damn infuriating seeing shit like this get a pass instead of good shows like Samurai Jack, Ed, Edd n Eddy, etc kind of quality of entertainment.

However you see it, shows in the west have undoubtfully dropped in standards when nips haven't taken as big of a hit (even they dipped somewhat, but nowhere a badly as the west.) Regardless of muh eye shit, good standards comes from seeing actual good animation. And tweenshit is NOT a high standard when a 2 year old can do it and get greenlighted yet passionate detailed animation gets abandoned because normies have the shit standards they have now.

>>2711183
Just use Clip Studio.

>>2711244
you will certainly make it, you are the pleb they need, unable to imagine the animation that doesn't exist yet, entirely satisfied by muh fluidity, muh breathing life, the best animation there is has already been done huh? just gotta imitate the golden age

>>2710364
Ask him if what he thinks about the more recent exchange between the West and Japan. I know they've always influenced each other but now it's happening in more obvious ways thanks to the internet. Thanks dude, let us know how it goes.

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>>2702486
Back with another attempt at the bouncing ball, this time attempting the squash and stretches.

Any advice on improvement and/or cleanup or decent enough for now?

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i post these in every thread but never get the time outside school and other art to improv on animation . i needa dedicate time man,

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>waiting for a spine torrent
I want to experiment with it so bad

>>2711831
much better. You could still improve it a little bit by messing with the timing/spacing when the ball is at the top. Let it hang up there for a little it longer before it drops and I think it'll make the fall more impactful. Good improvement none the less.
>>2711872
>i needa dedicate time man,
same here man. I'm trying to get my drawing skills where I want them first and it's real hard to delegate time to both animating and drawing.
Also your animation looks cool. I dig it.
>>2711890
Is spine actually any good? I haven't seen too much stuff made with it but the stuff I have seen looked underwhelming.

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>>2711915
>Is spine actually any good?
for animation shorts or film I don't see it's potential but to make stationary artwork it looks amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sul-lc9D-8I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU-MkV4N67Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_tE5PPdv_g

I made a quick test using the free version and it was so fucking simple I want to try it on more complex stuff but the free version doesn't let you save any progress

>>2711890
>>2711958
Dragonbones Pro is basically a free version of spine with all its features. You could try that

>>2711963
ayyy

I love you senpai

>>2701239
Are you boys in the thread still using flash?

I have been getting by in my spare time using pirated copies for around 10 years, and I think my luck has finally run out, cant find SHIT in terms of a free copy of flash.

I don't do this professionally, it is and always will be just a hobby for me but animation is super relaxing.

What the fuck are the poorfags using these days?

Should I still be using flash for animation or should I change to a different program?

>>2712011
>>2712003
I'm feeling the same feel.

I think it's time to abandon ship, flash has given the animation community nothing but shit for years.

>>2711915
its really really good for what it was made for (video game stuff)
for an actual film though i'd rather use adobe after effects with the mettle freeform and duik plugins

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>>2712011
>>2712014
Clip studio paint EX is nice.

Its got onion skinning, lets you export your animations in .avi and .gif formats, has a bunch of tools similar to photoshop's so you can make all sorts of awesome looking shit and have it moving.

HOWEVER. Flash probably can't be replaced in terms of a few things... It's still the only way to make .swf files. So if you want to make a flash game or something that's still the way to go. Flash is also pretty famous for it's motion tweening. Never forget that flash still offers those two unique things.

I really wish someone competent got ahold of flash too.

>>2712024
>>2712025
Hey on the subject of comparing clip studio paint EX and flash, one thing I really really really liked about flash was how you could listen to an audio clip while scrolling through the timeline. Clip studio paint EX doesn't do that at all.

Does after effects do something similar? I'm not familiar with it at all.

>>2712025
I have not made a game in years and motion tweening is the devil.

I'll try clip studio, thanks anon.

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shit all over my work anons, give me some critique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKJnMqheJBc

I'm currently just using a bamboo drawing tablet and Gimp.

>>2711872
damn dude this is so fluid and fresh, it's really enjoyable to watch

>>2711280
> Looney Toons
Hang yourself please

Also the quality of animation in the west hasn't dropped at all it simply changed format from 2D to 3D.

>>2712200
>Hang yourself please
Inquire good taste first.
> it simply changed format from 2D to 3D.
>This is an excuse to shit out shitty tweenshit "animation".

>>2711323
You're making a lot of asumptions

> unable to imagine the animation that doesn't exist yet

I'll give you this one. Maybe animation will get better, but it can just as easily get worse.

>entirely satisfied by muh fluidity

This is a false assumption, I don't care whether or not animation is fluid, why would you bring that up?

> the best animation there is has already been done huh?

For the time being, yes. I have yet to see something better than golden era animation.

>muh breathing life

Do you have brain damage? Why is life in animation a bad thing? I really don't see any reason in your statement whatsoever.

>just gotta imitate the golden age

Again this is a false assumption. It is however a fact that most of the rules we follow as animators were made by golden era animators. Like I said:

>You take what YOU like and leave what YOU don't like.

YOU are responsible for what YOUR animation looks like. Not me, not some dead animator from 1937, not some Japanese person, YOU do what YOU want, because YOU know what YOU like and nobody can tell you that you're wrong. If you want to take inspiration from Anime or Western or both then that's fine, because that's YOUR personal taste.

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>>2712224
>Inquire good taste first.
>Inquire

That's not what inquire means dipshit. The word you are looking for is ACQUIRE.

I hate Looney Toons, but I like Looney Tunes!

>>2712232
>Inquire
>investigate; look into.
How about you know what I mean first. And I'll add, yeah, acquire good taste too after you look it up for yourself.
>I hate Looney Toons, but I like Looney Tunes!
So you're just shitposting my post above then. Thank you for letting me know.

>>2712248

That's not how the word is used in a sentence. You don't just say 'inquire [x]'.

>>2712248
That's not how you use the word inquire. The proper statement would be: Inquire as to where you might ascertain some good taste.

Translation: Look into where you might find some good taste.

Please learn to write English.

With that linguistic puzzle set aside. How do you know I have bad taste? based on the assumption that I pointed out your flawed spelling of the name "Looney Tunes"? I am in fact eligible to be the biggest Looney Tunes fan in the world.

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>>2712262
>investigate some good taste first.
>Look into some good taste first.
Try again. Actually, don't. Now fuck off.

>>2712268
English isn't your first language I take it

>>2712268

Inquire good taste still doesn't make sense, your two other examples are better. You could say "inquire about" but we already know you're trying to cover your ass because you meant to say acquire.

>>2712268
I'm sorry but you've proven you have no idea what you're talking about so you should fuck off :^)

>>2712165
you're not funny

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first time animating in forever, know there are quite a few problems but can't put my finger on them.

was a fun exercise though

>>2712028
You can't do that in After Effects, you have to prerender it which sucks.

I tend to do a storyboard in photoshop and then import it to after effects and do my puppets over the very rough storyboard for timing.
You can isolate sections of the clips with these little markers (I don't know the terms though) and it'll only render that small bit so that speeds it up, but unfortunately there's no audio playing as you scroll (to my knowledge)

>>2712300
This is needs some overshoot, blinking, ease ins/outs, head needs to drag behind to show follow thru, purple chick needs more anticipation when she moves away from the screen, make red guy stretch when he juts down and squash up when he's down there. I suggest you brush up on your principles of animation.

>>2712308
Yeah these are on the mark (especially the squash and stretch, I realize he looks really...flat? stiff? without it).

How would I show more anticipation when she moves from the screen? More in betweens?

Yeah, I definitely will, thank you!

>>2712273 #
Sounds understandable to me.
>>2712276 #
Or you lot just got ass fucked over apparent mispunctuation of words for shit knows why despite knowing what was said for said comment above. Let alone apparently 3 people now care to commute. about grammar just because.
>>2712277 #
>:^)
Fuck off fuckboi

>>2712320
>>2712324

>mispounucation

You can't mispronounce a WRITTEN word dipshit.

>>2712324
>Sounds understandable to me.
Yes, it is understandable, but it is still shitty grammar.

>Or you lot just got ass fucked over apparent mispunctuation of words for shit knows why despite knowing what was said for said comment above. Let alone apparently 3 people now care to commute. about grammar just because.
First there is no mispronunciation when you are typing. That is solely a speaking thing. You (or they) just used the wrong word.

>3 people now care to commute about grammar
>commute
It's comment. You didn't even fix the word despite deleting your first comment and fixing the spelling. You already gave yourself away with being an ESL person with your shit grammar and misuse of words, but that would be okay if you could just take the criticism and learn from it. Either that or you are in middle school and don't know shit anyways.

>>2712025
really good!
It feels so fast for my taste, I think maybe there's too many uniquely different poses one right after another at the bottom of the bounce? That's my inexperienced guess at least.

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>>2712312
I made a quick mock up of how the first bit should go. I suggest you download the image and scrub thru it frame by frame. Just note that I did slow this down so that you can read what's going on

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>>2712287
fite me faggot

>>2712347
Thank you very much, this helps a lot! Much appreciated.

>>2712360
No problemo man.

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>>2704869
some o' dis shit makes no physical sense

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Sadly none of you noobs use flash, the ultimate animation tool...

>>2712516
Flash has some merits but that brush tool is the worst offender. doesn't matter how high the smoothing is your lines are fucked.

>>2712522
Yeah, brush tool sucks. I've found great success importing from .psd or .sai and vector tracing. Also straight up vector import from Illustrator is good. How do you guys construct your characters for articulation.

I saw this thread and I would love to share my recent animation project here! https://vimeo.com/182256072

http://teamrush.tumblr.com/post/150290363582/sunnychespin-i-finished-my-dance-animation

>>2712673
Fun stuff fambino

>>2712673
When his feet stomp down to the ground, You could've added some squash there when they hit the ground or something to make it look more lively.

Everything else is passable. Good job.

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this shitty ball took me like 8 hours

>>2712673
good shit familian. I really like it.

>>2712351
He's right, you suck.

>>2712165
What the hell do you expect us to say? Are you looking at the quality of everyone else's animations? Learn to draw first. Check the sticky.

>>2712701
The ball falling should have some stretch. SOME stretch. Or maybe it should fall faster. Or a combination of both. I imagine the cloth took the most time.

>>2710268
Fail comment art is subjective because everyone has their own view on it tard

>>2711227
>But see now you're gonna disagree because in your mind you have good taste don't you?

I don't believe that quality only works as a simple scale from 1 to 100. Thanks to your post I made a quite understandable explanation in my head so you people (no especially (You)) understand how I and others can appreciate anime as much as Disney from an animation standpoint, even if that's "objectively" inferior, which means, in the end, nothing.

You see, picture that in your head. As you're on /ic/, you must have made some paintings already. Some people go for hyper realistic rendering, spending hundreds of hours on a single portrait, detailing the pores of the skin and all. Some people'd rather stop after 10 hours, leaving blatant marks betraying the fact that it's a painting, and not a photograph. Is the latter objectively worse than the former? Dunno. I wonder if there's even an absolute way to tell.

You could say that the former spent 10 more (working) time on it, but that doesn't really mean anything. The end result matters most and both please people. But not only the end result, it's true, what people (consumers) often want to see/understand is an intention, but how do you know if he's not bullshitting an intention to increase the value? Maybe he just blindly drew with an empty head, even if he's saying otherwise. You don't and you can't know. Intentions aside, personally, I can appreciate as much Disney's quality animation (though I was the guy saying earlier I didn't like the Mowgly one, I can appreciate some of theirs, it's not definite), very refined, very lively, though not as lifelike as top-notch 3D (that I also appreciate but only as a consumer, not as an artist). A better analog to photo-realistic portrait might be photo-realistic 3D animation, rather than Disney which still conserves a bit of the artist's hand, no matter the efforts they make for it to disappear (generalizing here, forget Fantasia).

>>2712938
(continued)

Also 10 more (working) time doesn't mean 10 times more efforts. People function differently. There's a definite side of visual arts that is pure thought and (pre-)visualization. I count the thinking time as working time here, so not to say he spent more time thinking that the other guy working, but what I want to say is that you can't either jauge quality by "effort", just because one worked longer than another. Photo-realistic is usually a machine-like work, that is not much different from a photograph. What's the point? Was there, again, an intention in the artist's head other than copying reality 100%? I'm not blaming him (although he's fictional) but whatever he can say these work usually lack creativity.

And how do you even start to judge the value of a thought, in art? I dunno. If someone know, enlighten me. It's really contextual, historical, subjective and individual (could assign a lot of other adjectives here).

All of this to get back to animation. I don't think the Western vs Anime talk is futile, nor harmful, on the contrary it can be helpful (and this conversation has been helpful to me), as it is a manifestation of the thinking side of this art. Western (or rather Disney's school) has a particular way of thinking animation. Anime has developed it's own way too after decades. Both are successful, commercially and critically (despite differences). And still there are people, knowledgeable people (even here, to varying degrees), that defend one side to criticize the other. From my observations, the Western school criticize the Eastern more than the reverse, I'm precising this so you understand why I'm kinda offended (as a general state, not because of a particular post here, I'm butthurt by this mindset you could say). I can understand that everyone has his preferences, and bias, but I feel like it's really a lack of understanding (or will to understand), and that it's counter-productive, for the whole art form.

>>2712946
(continued)

When you grasp the technical side of something, you're more able to understand the objective quality of it. It's funny but I've already seen people saying "I'm assuming my shit tastes", they know they're watching a series that is badly considered, but they still appreciate it for some reason, no matter if the flaws are in plain sight even to them, apparently it doesn't bother them much. I myself went to that conclusion once, there may be an objective quality ruling everything, but it's not a reason to change my tastes to match it, let's accept some shit taste.

Though now I don't think the same, I'd rather ask myself "why do I like this if it's not considered good?" and reflect on it. It's proven to be a way better approach to art (reading this you might think this is obvious). Rather than an objective truth in arts, it's more interesting to consider various "sensibilities" that join with each other. You can find something that talk to you in a work, but not the entirety of that work. Still, that kind of sensibility is rare, so you still continue the aforesaid work to get all of it.

So, in the end, judging become complicated, intricate between subjectivity and objectivity, but I think that in the end, objectivity doesn't matter, simply chose what matches you and if you're a creator, your market.

I think I lost myself a bit here but... back to animation. Anime is like the not-as-polished painting I was mentioning before. I know the qualities people find in Disney's animations, breathing life, fluidity of being on 1s quasi-constantly (or whatever is technically better than anime, and more matching to the Western mindset... a mindset that was nearly entirely forged by Disney, let's not forget).

>>2712954
(continued)

I don't think that because anime has rougher drawings, less of them, less life, they're objectively less interesting. They do have objectively less drawings, and all that working-time-related quality. But I find them as interesting as older animation, if not more at times (not alone here). What would interest me even more, though, is as I mentioned before, are animations by persons who are influenced by both schools (that's why I like Yoh Yoshinari). Because I agree that "life" is lacking in a lot of anime, but that's only my newly acquired sensibility, I didn't care about that a few years ago, some people are okay with stills full of details, they're missing the shading from the old 80's OVAs, a thing that was also unique to anime. I already mentioned that I think the Japanese brought the art of limited animation to a next level (though I gotta research that more, I'm only saying that from feeling and some things I've read here and there about timing), but I'd also like to mention how they also pushed anime in the good(s) way(s). Like, who would have thought of an animated feature like GITS 1995 before it was made? (or any earlier groundbreaking movie like Akira if you prefer). Or if you'd rather think that animation is not made to reproduce cinema or reality (not the same but I'm losing myself while trying to define every school of thought possible here), you can also pick abstract works like Kaiba (still use "cinematographic" approach but really looks more like a child's tale, with dark themes, a weird mix. Or go full experimental with things like early Tezuka short animations.

I feel like I've forgotten some points, but maybe it'll come back later. It's the end of the thread, if someone want to reply though maybe I'll repost it in the newer one, if not it's okay I made some order in my head with that.

>>2712938
>so you people (no especially (You))
Not especially you, I meant.

File: hello nikki.gif (809KB, 1050x944px) Image search: [Google]

809KB, 1050x944px

>>2709779
>>2709817
I'm sick of seeing this. I'm calling it done.

I'm gonna stick to ten frames and below animation for awhile until I can feel more confident.

>>2712957
Another thing ms ybe, but it's just extrapolation.

Disney's way of animating is "creating drawings that are alive". I don't know why some people take that philosophy as the only respectable end for a character animation.

Maybe in the 30's with the beginnings of the cinema, it was amazing enough that drawings seemed alive, thus such a mindset to always make the drawing seem lifelike. It's nice but things have evolved, and although it's still important to have lively characters (most anime don't succeed for industrial reasons), maybe it's not an end in itself anymore. Rather than the story being told by the character's acting, maybe there are other goals to have for the animation. Or I don't know. I don't know enough about the Disney's philosophy throughout their existence, some anon will come and say "but nanana said that a good animation can't save a bad story" or something.

I don't know I lost myself but I strongly believe what I said earlier about the "sensibilities" and how to understand animation as an art form (though it might be obvious for some). That's why it's interesting to discuss, art is meant to be practiced and discussed (thought). Only posting WIP is dumb. Sure critics are discussion but discussing why we animate rather than paint and what we want to achieve seems important to me. And influences are a part of it (West/East), even more when they could be summed up as the both school of thought dictating mainstream animation worldwide. Why East? Why West? It's not simply some dumb child's brawl.

>>2712954
>I'm assuming my shit tastes
accepting rather than assuming

>>2712958
This came out really cute, dude!
I'm gonna be honest, seeing only the head movement at firsr, I wasn't sure how you were going to handle the body but you did it just fine!

>>2712958
True it's nice

>>2712975
>>2712984
Thanks you guys. It means a lot.

File: soccer bibbard animation.gif (2MB, 450x253px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 450x253px

Why aren't you this good yet?

>>2713079
Because if we were, we wouldn't be on /ic/

>>2712516
I use flash...