Tools

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Bought this kit a couple of weeks ago, perfect for a beginner I'd say.

>>2684875
looks cool

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>>2684815
that's all i can get where I live

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I usually do the first sketch with the red pencil, pass the bic over it, and for the definitive I use the crowquill pen with nankin

I really like Faber-Castell Polychromos pencils. Fuck drawing with graphite.

>>2684980
it sounds a bit too much, why the bic tho ? You can just go with the pen

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Mostly these for sketchbook. For painting I've been using Golden Open acrylics, sadly no room for oils.

>>2685248
are these fountain pen ? Can you show some drawings ?

I use those staedtler 2mm pencil. Use them for drawing and shading. Getting into oil right now and hopefully get some charcoal

>>2685157
If I am just practicing, I only use the bic over the pen. If I want a 'definitive version' of the drawing, I take a clean thin paper, put over it and only use the crowquill with nankin, I never use both the crowquill and bic at the same sheet. Idk if thats what you meant but, anyway

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>>2684957
Thanks, I really like it, it only cost me less than 10€ and it has a nice set of pencils plus some interesting stuff, like charcoal and paper stumps.
Look for Bianyo on AliExpress.

>>2685818
My apologies if I sound like an idiot for asking but the gray thing at the top right hand corner.I got one of those with an eraser pack I bought and it didn't exactly tell me how to utilize it.You know what purpose it serves?

>>2684831
This.
I do actually dislike the blue one so I use red instead. (all this is for sketching, I dislike pencils because I normally don't do values with them and dislike sharpening, I also dislike carrying around refills for leadholders/mechanical pencils and I get the same results with a ballpoint, everything more finished I use a leadholder, if I want tone then I use conte instead)

>>2684962
these suck so bad, got a color set of 32 iirc and they're not good, ink runs out really fast.

I mean, atleast the color are actually kinda good and the ink does not smear and is kind of waterproof,

>>2685248
that small waterbrush looks nice, the tip looks too broad so I guess it is a medium of the brand?

>>2685989
That's an kneader eraser.

>>2685729
Yeah that was what I meant, thanks

>>2685248
Dope.

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>>2684815
Yes, mommy and daddy bought these for me.

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>>2685429
Yeah. I like them for doing ink washes or mixing with waterbrushes filled with ink. Here are a bunch of tiny gesture drawings, my waterbrush was leaking in the ones in the right.

>>2685248
Where did you buy that sketchbook?
It looks refillable.

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>>2686906
I bought these ring things at staples and a hole punch, then made my own covers with some thick card stock and colored paper. It looks janky af but it's cheap and it works great.
www.staples.com/Staples-Arc-System-1-Notebook-Expansion-Discs-Black/product_923050

Do you take satisfaction in whittling a pencil down to nothing?

>>2687130
A while later, yeah. At the moment t I think 'Fuck, I need more pencils.'

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>>2687130
Pic related, my last 2B Wolff's Carbon. They don't sell those over here anymore. :(

>>2687130
When my ebony pencil becomes too short to use, I superglue a new one to the end of it. I've technically been using the same pencil for 2 years. It will die when my will to draw does.

>>2686924
It looks pretty great. Thanks for sharing

>>2684962

Bought one of these on a lark.

The most generic pigment liner I've ever used. Not good. Not bad. Just... there.

Line quality is fine and it doesn't smudge though, so... whatever.

>>2686644

Mommy and Daddy bough you Blackwings? You'd better put them to good use.

>>2687418
How useful are blackwings really? What makes them superior?

>>2684831
These are great for sketching

>>2684875
>>2685818
Want

>>2684962
I hate these so much, I feel you because this is the only thing I can get around here too

>>2684980
Similar to my own stuff

>>2685248
>>2686644
So pretty

>>2686924
still that looks fantastic

>>2685818
$10 for people in the us. ships from new jersey so you don't have to wait years for it to get from china

>>2688385
*forgot the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/29PCS-Sketch-Pencils-Charcoal-Extender-Eraser-Paper-Pen-Cutter-Drawing-Set-Bag/201457477283

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>>2684831
...you've inspired me.

>>2688562
don't do that, the ink will go to the bottom, oh and cap it.

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>>2684815
These things are pure orgasm. I used to do lots of traditional, but since I went digital, I stopped caring about the traditional materials. Used to use fancy pencils, but it's not worth it anymore now that I only sketch with traditional.

>$2 and get a pack of 24
>smoooooooooooth
>sounds good when I draw with it
>feels good
>have so much practice with them since I used them almost exclusively throughout school
>dat nostalgic feel when I draw with them
>can go surprisingly very dark
>their eraser is good, too

Make sure you get the soft ones.

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>>2688621
Writing pencils are great. These are under $6 for a box of 12 from Japan and they're fantastic. I like them better than Lumographs.

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>>2684815
Contributing

>>2688641
I was surprised Mitsubishi makes pencils so I looked them up and turns out I've got some mechanical pencils made by them under the uniball name, they're really good kek. Going to order these wooden ones online so I can try them out, thanks for the tip.

>>2688651
Mitsubishi makes everything.

>>2687460

You can draw with very little pressure. They put wax in the graphite to make them draw very smoothly.

That's why they were very popular among animators.

You can end up making a big smudgy mess if you're not careful though.

>>2687418
my old teacher recommended them, they are really satisfying to own.

22 bucks for 12 on amazon

>>2684815

Hey, /ic/, im russian and looking to buy a special eraser.

I forgot its name in english and dont even know its russian name so i cant translate

can any body help me with what its called?

its NOT A KNEADED eraser.

Its yelow-orange in color, it can eat its way through plastics and is like jelly in its texture (very soft). Its not used to erase actually, it only lightens pencil lines.

I cant fucking find this thing anywhere, las time i bought it i was in russia for vacation.

>>2688702
needed*

damn your english sucks. And if you dont even 'knead' the eraser, why do you want to buy it. Save for next krokodil, komrad.

>>2688705

needed? are you serious? google it "kneaded eraser"

https://www.amazon.com/Prismacolor-Premier-Kneaded-Rubber-Eraser/dp/B00006IFAJ

learn your own language bro.

Any way, i dont need that type, the thing i need is this gross rubber-acid thing.

dont even know its name.

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>>2688651
They make a lot of good stuff. The Hi-Unis are the best drawing pencils I've tried, they go for about $12 for a box of 12 on j-subculture.
The cheaper 9800 and 9850 are good too, and softer than the 9000. These Penmanship pencils are a lot of fun. Thick cores and really smooth, they sharpen to a really long point. There's also a 10B "brush" pencil.

>>2688712
if i need an eraser i dont google 'help i need eraser plis,' you fuckwit, I go to the art store down the street.

And from what I gain, you need it to cook some acid? Why did you come to this board for that?

>>2688702
Only eraser I know similar to that description is a gummy eraser.

>>2688714

Dude if you dont have anything worthwhile to say then please dont speak.

Ether help me with what I need or ignore my posts.

And I did ask at the art store, they couldn't help me, i might find that shit when i go back to russia but i haven't seen any in america.

>>2688715

hmmm... It might be a russian tool then, its very useful, i'm surprised i haven't seen it in america.

>>2688713
>Thick cores
>really smooth
m-muh dick hnnnnng

>>2688719
An alternative would be to make your kneaded into a cylinder and lightly roll it over your drawing to knock it back a little, Miles Johnston does that and he has Russian fine art training. Anyway, I hope you find it eventually.

>>2688723

thanks, thats what i've been doing.

The thing i want is fucking awesome though, its very useful for pencil drawing.

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>>2688720
Yeah man, just look at this thing.

>>2688621
Muh fuggin' nigga, Ticonderoga are the shit
The box does not lie when it says "World's Best Pencil" (well, Wally World atleast)

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>>2684815
I dont have a preferred pen and mechanical pencil. I usually prefer: pencils that are mitsubishi or prisma, brush pens from pentel, and sometimes i use mistubishi colored pencils.

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I have a ton of stuff, but i love muh copic cuz dat dere blends and refills

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Nasty trads unite. I just picked the ones that I really use, also few big cans of wall paint.

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>>2689036

gotta have the matching pen

>>2689078
Question. When you use your microns, does your ink flow?

>>2689221
depends on the size. when I use 0.8 be I notice some flow in the ink. I'm sure if I went up in sizes the flow would be even more significant

>>2685248
Nice Sailors. I had one till friend's bitch decided it was her chew toy and chewed the barrel into pieces in the 3 minutes I left it alone on a table.

>>2689234
My Microns leave spaces in the lines every time I use them.

>>2689078
Does the ink pierce the pages of your moleskine ?

>>2686644
I used to live in Keswick, where the Derwent pencil factory is.

>GC

Gud taste.

>>2688713
Yeah, I went to the Itoya shop in Tokyo and they said they were the best, only the ones with gold though.

Expensive place that, fountain pens for a million yen, or 10.000 dollars.

>>2689249
Shit man, that's awful. If it's just the pen body that's ruined you can buy a replacement barrel + cap, I believe. Engeika used to sell them.

>>2689040
>>2689036
richfag pls go (to the store and buy me paints)

>>2689398
my african american.

>>2684815
generals 555 and a paper towel

>>2688995
awwww yeah preach it dawg

>>2685989
It's a kneadable eraser. You can shape it by hand to erase very tight spaces without erasing lines you wish to keep.

An essential tool for illustrators.

>>2686644
You play Smash?

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>>2689534
I did! but im terrible at it. used the emulator mostly for pikmin and paper mario

>>2689387
No, but I draw rather lite

>>2689078
what's the brand of the sketchbook ?

>>2689221
Micron user. It does not flow. I've gotten a decent several months of use out of my set of 6. However, it's been less than a year and they're running dry a bit (mostly the thinner ones). I'm curious to try another brand but I love these.

>>2689972
moleskin

I need a pencase can you recommend me something /ic/ ?

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>>2691604

>>2691774
looks weird

Charcoal pencils on canvas. Acrylic is good beginner paint but dries fast! Acrylic supplies are cheaper as well. Oils blend better make for better shading/ realism. Oil supplies are NOT cheap and oil takes days to dry! they have special markers if you are wanting to do cartoons/ anime!

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sketchbook shit, sketch in red/refine in blue all the rest are lines and detail pens

>>2692005
resizefaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag

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>>2688713
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little Bic? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my box at Tombow Japan, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret figure studies of live models, and I have over 300 confirmed still lives. I am trained in gesture warfare and I’m the top drawer in the entire Japanese Art Forces. You are nothing to me but just another commision. I will draw you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this board, mark my fucking value studies. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of doujinshi artists across Japan and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the eraser, maggot. The eraser that wipes out the pathetic little things you call your drawings. You’re fucking drawn, kid. I can draw anywhere, anytime, and I can push values in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my HB grade. Not only am I extensively trained in unsharpened gradient renderings, but I have access to the entire arsenal of amazon.co.jp and I will use it to its full extent to draw your miserable ass on the face of this bristol board, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tortillion. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn pencil. I will shit forms all over you and you will feel them. You’re fucking drawn, kiddo.

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Shit not pictured:

>Koh-i-noor Technigraph 2mm leadholder with Staedtler 2H lead
>General Primo 59B charcoal pencil
>Col-Erase non-photo blue pencil (it's shit)
>Red and blue Prisma colored pencils
>Kuretake brush pen
>Pentel Technica gel pen
>Uni-Ball Signa gel pen in white
>Tachikawa nib holder
>Zebra G nibs
>Kuretake No. 8 brush pen
>Cotman 111 and 222 #6 watercolor brushes
>Empty Copic Sketch markers filled with Speedball Super Black and FW Acrylic black
>Faber Castel PITT Big Brush in black
>FW Acrylic black ink
>Dr Ph Martins Synchromatic Transparent in Cerulean, Magenta and Cadmium
Copic
>Copic Various refills in N1, N3 and N5
>Staples brand 11x17 copy paper
>Canson XL 9x12 smooth bristol
>Strathmore Windpower 11x14 smooth bristol
>Bulk pack of 24x18 newsprint
>Exacto knife
>Staedtler Mars leadpointer
>Set squares (45/45/90 and 30/60/90) in two sizes
>Set of three French curves
>24" metal T-square
>Staedtler Mars flexible curve
>11x14 masonite board
>24x18 mdf drawing board
>Compass
>Protractor
>Binder clips in two sizes
>Elastic bands
>Generic plastic pallets
>Rubbing alcohol

Adds up to a cluttered shithole.

>>2692005
Could you give the names of the pencils on the left, and the pen on the far right?

>>2691945
Its made of stretchy material

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Mostly Lukas 1862 oils, some Gamblin, a little W&N. The handful of brushes next to the palette are the ones I use; the rest are either new ones I haven't trashed yet or trashed brushes I can't bring myself to toss. Cheap-ass Beste and Ebony Splendor synthetics get used most, along with a few Raphael Kolinsky sables.

>>2692359
why the circle patterns ?

>>2692456
you got some paintings senpai? I am just starting with oils

>>2692701
I've been painting for years, so yeah I have lots of 'em. Not posting them here because this is a tools thread. And I'd rather not be doxed.
I can tell you the one thing I wish I'd learned much earlier than I did: Underpainting is key. Get the drawing right, of course, but also make sure to get the values down early. That first thin layer of grisaille (with raw umber, burnt umber, or mud) makes all the difference. You don't have to get the darkest darks down at that stage, but know where they will be and establish the value relationships before you bring color into it. And let it dry. Take the time to do it right.

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Can someone recommended a good long lasting brush pen?

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>>2692359
why'd you take the picture while running by?

>>2692696
ellipses templates. one of the hardest forms to master, made easy.

>>2692797
pentel pocket brush, duh. reloadable with very nice bristles. if you're looking for a felt tip brush pen, then I guess the pilot pocket brush soft is pretty great.

>pic for posterity
My favorites

>>2692833
Thanks, got any recommendations for a sketchbook that work well with the Pentel? I've heard they can look really bad on certain types of paper

>>2692850
basically just any thick paper (I'd think 80lb minimum for no bleeding/feathering) with a normal to fine tooth to it. real course paper will pool ink which makes it look odd when it dries.

My recommendation is to get a clipboard with storage, and buy some cardstock paper at wally world. 250 sheets of 110lb paper for only 5 bucks. Beats the hell out of ring/binder sketchbooks and is way cheaper. Only real caveat is I doubt it's acid free. My small clipboard in pic holds half sheets of 8.5"x11" nicely, and the paper is so thick, I can use both sides without anything showing up on the other side while scanning.

>>2692866
Cool, thanks for the advice man, appreciate it a lot.

>>2692833
>why'd you take the picture while running by?

I tried to hold the camera still but I dunno, just came out blurry.

I've probably taken less than two dozen photos in my entire life so I guess I need practice.

>>2692833
more pics of the koi water color ? Is it good ?

>>2692729
Ok thanks! I did some with underpaintings with umber pickouts, but after like 5 or so I stopped since it wasnt all that useful for me, since I establish those things with pretty detailed drawings underneath. I seem to get this "seeing color for value" pretty good.
My problem atm seem to be with the amount of paint to use, and that I dont blend well enough. You have advice on that senpai?

>>2692359
>Empty Copic Sketch markers filled with Speedball Super Black and FW Acrylic black
tell me about how often you need to clean this out & other issues with potential clogging, senpai

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>i just realized i need to sharpen my pencil
>remember that i'm so cheap that i sharpen it with a kitchen knife

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>>2693238
>so cheap that i sharpen it with a kitchen knife
Razor blades are dirt cheap, anon.
But a decently sharp knife does just as well (I use pic related), I just wouldn't use the same knife to slice my food afterwards.

>>2693238
>remember that i'm so cheap that i sharpen it with a kitchen knife

you are using Fabriano though, that shit costs some holla

>>2692952
>My problem atm seem to be with the amount of paint to use, and that I dont blend well enough

That is the other purpose of underpainting, for me at least: To get a physical layer of paint onto the support. I often do two or three layers of grisaille. So I might as well work out and refine the values while I'm at it. If a gradient is right at that stage, blending colors in later layers is that much easier. I put down mostly very thin layers, so there are usually four or more layers on every inch of the surface. Not everyone does it that way but it works for me. Your mileage may vary.

Alla prima and impasto techniques are very different, obviously, and I rarely use either.

>>2693224

I've been using them for almost two years.

I don't clean them. I don't even know how I would do that, the marker's reservoir is completely inaccessible.

They don't clog. Ink flow is not amazing but both inks are very thick. Ink flows better and darker through the brush nib because it comes to a point. The broad nib gets streaky fast. If you keep the markers loaded with ink they work perfectly. If the nibs ever clogged or whatever it would be no biggie because they're replaceable. Copic lids are air and water tight so they don't dry out.

I use two markers with two inks because the Speedball is cheap but isn't Copic proof. The FW is Copic proof but more expensive. If I'm drawing something I'm going to use Copics over I use the FW.

I'm thinking about ditching the FW marker in favor of one filled with Platinum Carbon black ink. I've used the Platinum ink in my Preppy before and I'm planning on getting a big bottle of it to use in my brush pen. Since it's waterproof, Copic proof and decently black it has all of the advantages of the FW but because it's designed for fountain pens it is much thinner and should flow very well in a Copic.

>>2684875
>not used

>>2693259
i have this knife, mostly for wood carving, but it works well when sharpening pencils!

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4 dollar Preppy pen twelve dollar sketch pad. Occasional bog standard Staedler pencil.

>>2688651
They also do POSCA paint markers that fill their specific niche really well. Currently debating whether or not to buy a set for my cartoony, street-arty looking stuff.

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>>2693281
thanks for the help familia

>>2692940
It's very nice, anon. It is portable, has plenty of colors and in decent puck size for quite a few works. I haven't used mine much, as I've yet to get any water color paper, but the brush is very nice and has good precision. The package holds the palette in three different locations, there's two tiny sponges built into either side of the color pucks for drying the brush, and the bottom of the package has a finger ring for a more comfortable holding while painting experience. It's really nice, and I need to start using it for plein air practice.

>>2693864
actually it's pretty interesting to read, thanks for all of that anon. would've figured because of the india ink ingredients & the acrylic based ink you are using in your pens it would've led to some bullshit with that foam part inside of the copic.

platinum carbon black is good shit, but really expensive. you get what you pay for however, and is one of the best inks around for waterproof/markerproof properties.
a budget choice (but india ink) is dick blick black cat. it doesn't get to the super black of a deleter #4 or as dark as platinum carbon black (it has been a while since i've tested though), but gets the job done. black cat is my work horse ink, for sketches, etc., with the expensive inks (deleter 4, platinum) for nicer things/gifts/shit for other people.

>>2694176

It's just nice to have good quality black markers on hand instead of burning through PITTs.

With the India ink it's *almost* nice enough to ink with, but the ink flow just isn't there. Copic ink flows beautifully, natch, so I'm hoping the thinner Platinum ink will flow well and make the pen a decent inking tool.

Maybe just get a slightly thinner indian ink? I know everyone who uses the speedball super black mentions/complains about how thick it is. either add some distilled water prior to filling, or maybe use higgins or something else to see if you get better results. I don't use speedball for any of my well nibs because of how thick it is, and how fast it tends to dry out. My higgins ink works pretty decent for my reservoirs though.

>>2693864
>>2694176
I have a bottle of Platinum Carbon and a black Copic Sketch that's running dry. I'm willing to give it a try and report back.

>>2693864
>>2694176
>>2694402
Nope, that was no good. The ink is too liquid for the Copic. I only put in a little, maybe enough to fill a small fountain pen converter, capped it and gave it a light shake, and then all of the ink ended up inside the caps. There was enough left in the pen for a few good strokes before it dried out again. I would suggest using a brush pen or waterbrush for this instead.

>>2694418
bad luck, anon. did you wait a long time after filling before doing the testing? if using a waterbrush (like pentel aquash) next time, check for a filter. pop that shit out so the particles don't get clogged into that tiny filter. found out the hard way when first making bootleg black brush pens, watercolour wash pens & wink of stellas.

>>2694418

You actually bought an empty Copic to do this experiment? Neat!

Interesting results too. I didn't consider that the ink would be too liquid, since Copic ink is dye-based. How exactly did you fill it? When I fill my Copics (India ink or regular ink) I do it one drop at a time, applied to the nib, until they stop soaking up the ink. I don't shake them either, I just leave them with both caps off for a few minutes to let the ink soak through the sponge.

I'm still gonna try it, since I'm buying the ink for my brush pen anyway and the empty marker is just a few bucks, but your results give me food for thought. Maybe I can make a weird Frankenstein ink by mixing the Platinum with the FW, thinning out the ink while maintaining color density.

>>2694526
I pulled the chisel nib out with pliers and dropped the ink in with a pipette. I didn't think about soaking the nib, but when I shook it the ink leaked through both sides of the pen. I don't know how the alcohol based inks are made, but fountain pen inks are like 98% water, so that would explain it leaking. I would it imagine it'd need some sort of feed to control the flow.

>>2694530

Copic inks are very thin. A light ink like C000 is made with just the slightest bit of pigment in the alcohol solution.

Copics can be finicky to refill. If you put too much ink in at once it will pour out the other end. The ink has to be added slowly so it spreads out and soaks every corner of the reservoir sponge. If you refill it too quickly it will just follow gravity down to the end of the pen. I drip the ink directly on the nib, and don't add another drop until the first one is completely soaked up. When the ink starts dripping off the brush nib I stop.

Shaking is also unnecessary since there is no agitator or feed component. Just let the capillary action do its thing.

>>2694535
I think I might be too stupid for this, even doing that way the ink leaks. It's at least usable though, this way I can get a constant ink flow through the brush nib. It just doesn't look very dark.

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Cheap but effective brushes and painting knives for Oil, refillable sakura for watercolor

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this is the minimum i'll carry out if im going somewhere.

>>2694824

I can never get the jellyrolls to apply correctly. it always smudges my lining, or doesnt completely "whiten" the area applied

any tips? should i just let the lining and ink dry longer?

im a pencilnoob, the "best" stuff i can get around here are castell 9000 and lumographs but i have some issues. When i want to make an area solid black it gets superglossy, the lumographs are better than the castell but it still doesnt look good i think, is there a pencil out there that will satisfy me? I dont want to use charcoal.

>>2694905
Usually the gully rolls you have to use for awhile before they apply more consistently. Also don't go fast cause it seems to fuck up the flow.

>>2694974
And yeah let the other inks dry first before you apply it.

>>2694824
Noice, can you share some drawings and more info on the brush pen ?

>>2694908
The expensive Staples Arc one will hassle-free, but you can do it with any hole punch if you cut the edges of the holes to fit the discs. Circa and Levenger also sell systems that are exactly the same, so there may be a better alternative out there that I'm not aware of.

>>2694970
The 7B and 8B Lumos are a mix of carbon and graphite, but they're not exactly smooth. If you want something a bit more pleasant to use, try an oil-based black pencil. Pitt Oil Base / Cretacolor Nero / Koh-i-Noor Negro.

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>>2684815
I'm broke as it can get

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>>2694981
brush pen will help you control your line weight. cause small changes in pressure will have a big affect on the lines.
here's a tree doodle i did

>>2694991
If this will make the solid black areas less glossy ill order some right away, while im waiting i guess i can practice my shading.

>>2695036
They're definitely less glossy, but you're still going to get some shine if you press down hard.
But graphite shine shouldn't really be an issue if you're not being heavy-handed or overworking an area. Going down to another grade might also fix the issue, since the harder you go the less graphite (and the more clay/binder) the pencil will have. For example, you might use a 4B instead of a 6B if you can get the value you need with it. Using a paper with no tooth could also be an issue since you'll need to apply more layers to go as dark.

>>2694993
And what brand it is ?

>>2695050
is this one
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000THNGVO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

>>2695046
Trying to source the koh-i-Noor i fell into a hole on a few other forums and various blogs and now a new challenger has entered the battle. It seems there are "plenty" of leads for cluth pencils that should have the charachteristics im looking for, and also they are very wide, which should speed everything up.

>>2695343
I don't know about plenty, but both Koh-i-Noor and Cretacolor make these in 5.6mm form. They should be exactly the same as the pencils, so pick whichever you like best. I would go for the soft or extrasoft ones, anything harder than that won't go very dark.

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>>2694992
The HB lead lasts forever.

>>2693942
if you are looking for a step up in fountain pens for the long term id recommend a buying Lamy Safari and picking up a converter.

>>2695705
If you don't break it, yeah

Now this is the kind of advertising I like on art materials

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I'm still fairly new, so my collection of art supplies is ever growing as I experiment to find what I like. The Sakura Koi paint set is pretty cool, but my next goal is to make limited palettes in Altoids tins using tube watercolors. Watercolor is hard, so I've been putting it off.

>>2695060
Thanks mate

>>2695716
The Lamy is a nicer pen but not really an upgrade when it comes to drawing, the EF nibs are inconsistent and not as fine as even a japanese fine nib. The Lamy converter doesn't hold much ink when compared to an eyedropper-filled Preppy. Those are surprisingly good pens for barely any money.

>>2695957
I wish they ship the koi watercolors where I live...

>>2694911
I see faber-castell polychromos come up a lot. I too have prismacolors and don't really like them for my purposes as they can't hold a point.

>>2694911
Is rotring any good ? Why does a lot of people use it ?

>>2697115

A mechanical pencil is hard to call good or bad, i mean, if it has as good a mechanism as any other pencils and the same durability then the only things that makes it diffrent is how it feels in your hand and value for money. I like rotrings, got some tickys, a 300 and a 600, great pencils for that price and comfortable grip on all of them. Imho the ticky is seriously underpriced and is fantastic for tight budget

>>2692005
what's the white one ?

>>2698451
looks exactly like like a uniball signo broad. the code on the side confirms: UM 153. I have my shown>>2692833

nice for covering up ink like whiteout but with more control. just don't try to cover any other uniball signo inks with it, as it'll destroy itself. Not. Even. Kidding.

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comic fag here
go pro pictures are strange

>>2689037
hows painting compared to drawing. i really want to get jnto oil painting, but im currently focused on gittin gud with drawing first. any tips?

>>2698890
I dig this, post pannels

>>2698890
Don't use bristol for artists, 300g color laser printer paper is exactly the same, but much cheaper and has many more pages. I paid like $17 for 125 pages A3 including shipping.

Otherwise, this looks like every overpriced 2nd rate tool you can buy in an art shop. I dunno, congratulations, I guess.

>>2698890
prismacolor kneaded eraser sucks, they tend to harden after some exposure, get fiber castell one instead.

>>2693865
I took the picture when I received it m8.

>>2699088
Or go straight to mono erasers, they were pretty much made for erasing pencil lines when doing ink on bristol.

>>2699087
hammermill colour copy digital cover 100lb (8.5" x 11"; 250 sheets) & accent opaque digital cover 120lb (same shit but 150 sheets) are two really good brands of printer paper that fit this sort of description

>>2699570
mondi color copy paper is this for europe

When is it worth the money to buy a tablet?

>>2698890
why is a 50 cent piece necessary tho?

>>2702030
When you actually have money, anon.

>>2702030
Way too situational.

>>2702071
Cause you need some music in the background.

>>2699087
I got more acostumed to this paper. I don't want to go outside my comfort zone again.

>>2699088
Prismacolor is the only i can get here.It is the least worst.

>>2702071
Because I sign my drawings inside the shape of the coin. it is a JFK coin of my birth year.

>>2706516
>Because I sign my drawings
Fag

>>2684875
Just got mine today. The sketch pencil's seemed cheap.

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Y'all niggas don't know joy until you've used these two

>>2707817
Mah african pal

how well do water brushes (like pentel aquash) perform when used with fountain pen inks? i want to get some so i can fill them with some coloured pigment (fp safe) inks i own, but not sure if i should just wait & save up for actual brush pens made for this purpose.

>>2709583
They handle just fine but may start blurting out ink as they get low, so you want to refill before it gets to that point. I've never had one dry out or leak on me or anything like that, but the brush quality also isn't as nice as a Pentel Pocket brush.

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>>2709625

About fountain pen inks, do you know any blue inks that closely matches non photo blue pencils? (A blue colour that can easily to removed after scanning)


After some research "beau blue" and "aqua blue" inks seem close but I don't know until I buy it, but they are expensive.

>>2709693
You could dilute cyan ink yourself with distilled water.

>>2709693
J Herbin Bleu Azur is the lightest blue ink that I know of, but I haven't tried it myself. I think any ink that's really light should be easily removable with Photoshop, if you're using a reasonably decent black on top of it.

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Carpenters pencil, brush pens and pure colors.

>>2709693

Dude non-photo blue isn't even a thing anymore. It made sense with Xerox machines but you can easily filter out the blue (or any color) in Photoshop.

Can anyone recommend a nib that is broad without being chiseled?

Basically a big round point. For reference, a G-nib is too thin (unless you really bear down on it). I know I've seen one somewhere, some kind of spoon nib, but I can't think of it exactly.

I want a nib for bold lines with just a bit of line variation.

>>2684815
I just use a Faber-Castell Trilux blue pen, a Faber-Castell 2HB pencil if I need to sketch out a more complicated piece, and a Micro liquid paper. A while ago a friend lend me one of those pens that come with multiple colours in one and it felt very nice, I might get one of those in the near future.
I'd love to get some Copic markers but they're expensive and not so easy to find. I also want to get started in watercolour but I don't know where to begin or any good brands to be honest.

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>>2709826
Fountain pens.

>>2709625
never personally used the pentel branded brush pen, but one with a similar brush (platinum brand). that pen has enough issues with eating up a lot of ink already. was thinking of the water brush because of the larger amount it could hold

thank you for the help anon

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>>2709760
Holy shit fuck yeah. Something about the angle and getting different strokes with them feels super natural to me and adds a different level of pressure.

>>2694993
How would one achieve style like this?

>>2707081
there is no need to be upset

>>2707817
Post lines with both
I am considering try them even though it is hard to find them in my area

>>2707817
oh shit is that an oblique liner?

>>2710000

Fuck those are so expensive though.

>>2710742
You don't need a fancy pen, though, you're just not going to get much line variation out of a broad steel nib.

It's hard to get a thick line on a nib with no tipping material, but if you're sticking to dip nibs exclusively you can try something like a glass pen (broad line, absolutely no flex) or maybe one of those index finger nibs (also stiff).
One of the Hunt/Speedball bowl nibs should give you a slightly thicker line than your G nib (but still pretty fine), with some line variation if you push it.

>>2692432
Pencils: Uni Mitsubishi Erasable Color Pencil - Vermilion, Uni Mitsubishi Vermilion and Prussian Blue Pencil - 7:3,
Pen: Pilot Pocket Brush Pen - Soft

>>2698451
Uni-ball Signo Broad UM-153 Gel Pen - White Ink

Sorry so late I check /ic/ only once in a while

Oh fuck I need a brush pen. I've been getting by with markers and pigma microns, but those brush pens are stunning.

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I only ever use Winsor and Newton artists oil paint and synthetic brushes also Winsor and Newton solvents and oils. on a side note this is my first ever landscape, please pass judgement, I have been so engrossed in it I can't tell whether or not it is good or not

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>>2712436
Taken with better camera and cat in the way

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>>2712436
I'm not sure what the ref you have looks like, but I took a guess at some things and made some changes. Overall yours looks good but it seems too yellow and high key, so I brought in some darker tones into the foliage, reflections, and shadows. I also wonder if the photo you are using might have the sky blown out slightly for the colour because there is way more blue in the reflection in the water than in the sky.

>>2712450
Thank you very much, and yes, that photo isn't very good, it was taken on a chinkshit smartphone, the one I posted below it was taken on a Nikon D3200 so has better colour information but I under exposed it. The reason there is more blue in the water is because it is just the same cerulean blue as in the sky but not lightened, since the water is darker than the sky.

My main concern with it is that it looks a bit too haphazard, especially the trees on the left, I like the trees on the right more.

>>2691774
This thing is basically a dress sock with a zipper on it. I don't really like it

>>2712448
Bumping for opinions

>>2713015
The place you looked at wasn't made of 2 colors for every plant. Learn to see color properly. Also, probably way too undetailed for what you wanted to draw. Broad strokes like this are shit. As a beginner, you should do point by point and make sure the color of that point matches what you copy from.

Check out "The Elements of Drawing, by John Ruskin" for how the exercise went again.

>>2713058
You don't need to prepare pigments, there was no prepared paint in tubes at the time this was written.

>>2713058

There are more than two colours.

>>2684815
Toison d'or 2,4,9B
Rotring vintage i dont know the model 0.5
Pelican W30 rubber eraser
Giotto Turbo Maxi markers
Giotto Turbo Color markers

>>2710577
Are you fucking stupid,its horrible.

>>2713083
Ahh, /ic/, such a constructive place.

>>2713085
Nigga if you did more than 5 days of drawing you would know why.
Sometimes you guys amaze me,just say that you have no idea what you even looking at,at least not anything more than pretty colors.
This shit may fly around your friends but not here.

>>2713068
Oh shit. Sorry, but /ic/ isn't exactly a nice place.

Aside from how many colors you abused for this (which I don't give a fuck about) take the advice and try again. You can find the book online.

>>2713090
>>2713114
You guys should really stop taking your anger out on strangers.

>>2684815
I mostly do digital, but when I do traditional I just use whatever I can get my hands on.

I'm pretty fond of doing gesture drawings and sketches with highlighters, and I like to paint with coffee water sometimes. I rarely do anything polished traditionally.

>>2713121
Im sorry if i hurt your feelings but learn to take it like a man.
Did I have harsh life,sure I have.
Do I sound angy,sure i do.
But still doesnt make that shit good "painting".

>>2713178
You didn't hurt my feelings. I feel happy with it now after making a few modifications. I just think that the atmosphere here is a bit more poisonous than it needs to be.

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>>2710705
Here you go, sorry for the lateness

>>2710728
You bet it is mein neger, god bless all the shops around the design/architecture uni I go to

Graphite b- 9b and charcoal. Also ballpoint pens

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Has anyone here painted on surfaces like pic related? I'm pretty new to oils, and I feel that on (supermarket tier, mind) canvas I can't achieve the smooth strokes and details that I like when I'm painting smaller objects.

"But anon that's because you're a shitter." Yeah I am, but I still like to know.

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1/2
My sketch tools.

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2/2
My inking tools. These obviously stay home.

>>2716810
If you want smooth and fluid brushstrokes, then look no further. Some of those boards can still have a slightly gritty surface for the sake of texture, so you should check them out at a store first instead of buying blind online. But, IMO, the best way to go is preparing surfaces yourself: get some masonite or plywood cheap af, cut to size, gesso and sand to desired smoothness. More work but you control the qualities of your surface.

>>2716810
Ampersand are good quality painting panels. As well as the gessobord, they make smooth primed and canvas textured panels (they also do aqua and pastel bord). From what you say about the canvas you have been using, you will find them an improvement.

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here is my on foot/bus/train set up. I usually just tuck the brush behind my ear. i use watercolor or gouache to quickly introduce tone to sketches. its all pretty easy to get out and set up in under a minute. and i use an eye droplet for water so as to avoid spilling water on anyone next to me.

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>>2718428


for more elaborate en plein air studies i use this set up

>>2718429
>that painting
I-is that yours? That's amazing.

>>2718432
what painting? the paint on the bottom picture is my paint pallete lool

>>2716998
What's up with the red and blue lead?

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>>2718428
that face

>>2718958
what's up with them? they are blue and red lead, I assume 2mm

>>2684815
Pencils ranging from 6H - 8B
A blending stump
A kneedable eraser and a eraser pen

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>>2684815
Which size of sketchbook do you recommand for sketching kinda everything from characters to landscapes?

I'm more confortable when I draw only moving my fingers, it is bad practice?

>>2718991
>I'm more confortable when I draw only moving my fingers, it is bad practice?

yes

>>2718428
>>2718429
lol black people trying to be artistic.

>>2719019
lol white people being autistic

>>>/pol/

>>2719027
lol white apologist current year narrative

>>>/lgbt/

>>2719019
lol black people trying to fit in on 4chan

>>>/tumblr/

>>2719019
>>2719027
>>2719034
>>2719136
lol skin color racists

>>>/gulag/

>>2719196
dirty communist dog!

>>2719019
yh I am black.
I dont know whats worse me browsing /pol/
or all the black chicks only wanted to get with white dudes

>>2719027
thanks for being kind anon

>>2719219
>tfw white
Get fucked go take some white chicks to starbucks nigger

>>2693259
This is the greatest knife I've ever had. Thing weighs almost as much as the fucking pencil itself.

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>>2684815
My basic rack.

in majority of case i use Bristol paper.

For exterior drawing and sketches/

- 2 Lamy Fountain pen ( one in F and the other in EF) Filed with Sailor Black Ink in 50ml
- Pentel Pocket Brush Pen (with one or two spare cartridge on me)
- Pentel Sign Pen (usualy one or two on me)
- Technical Pentel P209
- Magic Pen No.300
- e+m Clutch pencil Steel 023
- Molotov Marker that i cut the nib
- Nan King chines ink by Lefranc bourgeois (in smallest bottle outside of cours)
- set of various brus that i also use for modeling
- for aquarelle mop brush (or anything with a good reserv for pigment and water but with kind of soft/jelly felling when i paint)
- Not on the pictures but i use Daler and Rowney artist Aquarelle and plane to move on Schmink or old holland.

For coloring and painting at house/

- Rembradt Oil tube
- Turpentine from Sennelier

>>2709826
Have you tried ackerman pens ? im sur you can find what you want in there catalog.

>>2718958
What do you mean?

>>2718964
Close. 3mm. They're just prismacolor col-erase pencils gutted and inserted into a 3mm lead holder.

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>>2719251
>geant beaux arts
camarade camenbert

>>2719749
Nope i don't buy on "Geant des beaux arts" Camarade Roblochon.

I just got a electric eraser. Its really good for ereasing the guides and smaller stuff. Anybody else using one?

>>2719967
me, in combination with 6b pencils and looking to buy some 8b

I don't like to put pressure

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>paying for a pencil
>it isnt 100% pencil
you make me sick

>>2720058
Post work

>>2710577
brush pen and copic markers.
>>2713083
thanks for the critique. i'll work on making better things.

>>2694992
is there a way to clean the metal grip? mine's a hand-me-down from a coworker

>>2720152
Try some clorox wipes

I will not let this thread die

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What was the last thing you bought /ic/? Why did you buy it? Was it any good?

>Last thing I bought
The Pentel Tradio Stylo Pen

>Why did you buy it?
I had bought the disposable Pentel Stylo pen, and was interested in investing in a "refillable" pen.

>Was it any good?
Yes and no. The package claimed it was waterproof, but it was only telling 50% of the truth. The lines don't smear, but some of the pigment still leave a grey streak when introduced to water brushes. It makes a nice effect and perfect for adding some quick greytones, but I would not recommend it if you are planning on layering some transparent colors.

It's a felt nib, but feels like a fountain pen. Depending on how you hold it, the line width varies.

good idea, anon. i went ham though so gotta split the post in two

>last art related purchase
since they came in one package last week: fountain pen inks, mainly balloon & clown storia inks from sailor and noodler's whiteness of the whale. also the pentel pocket brush and the platinum ef desk pen

>why buy it
finishing up the storia collection after nearly a year or so. noodler's ink because i wanted to mix with it. i'm aware of the potential hazards with mixing from different brands, but hey i want the first hand experience with it. barely any information for artists to utilize (mainly for storia) from what i've looked up on it.
pocket brush pen to try it out after trying other brush pens like the kuretake nylon & platinum felt tipped brush pens. finally, just wanted to get a hand on the desk pen & have a pen on hand for really fine lines.

a total money sink? yeah, probably. testing out random bullshit just to satisfy my own curiosity has its ups and downs. i'm aware of (and already have) coloured india inks from ph martin, and related tools for inking with those. i've just been trying out a lot of new things in the past two years since i have the chance to do so.

dang, post too long again. oh well.

>>2726028
>results
mixing the two different brands of inks together wasn't bad at all so far. granted, it's been about a week with zero negative effects, but don't really know what sort of typical timeframe people use for this shit. after having the whole set of storia inks, it just feels like they should have tried to somehow manage to create an orange instead of two different greens. with the testing & general fucking around with mixing, felt like the yellow ink had to be used a lot more than every other ink. i wonder if it was because of some sort of orange pigments being hard for them to get and/or create a decent enough ink. storia red ink, from what i've researched on it, is rather unpopular because of how "wimpy" it is. i don't mind it too much, but the issue is a valid one.

as far as the pocket brush pen goes, i thought it was just a fad product, but it's actually quite nice. a bit firmer than the kuretake brush pen (that one is cheaper though), so the lines are much more solid. the platinum desk pen is also a great find for what it is. so far no issues with either of the writing instruments.

>>2726037
i'd like to get something formal written up in some way for the storia inks without trying to be too much of a shill, despite being a total newbie with fountain pen knowledge. i got suckered in by these specific inks, but the documentation that exists currently for it, aside from mentions in the last post, is just not there in regards to drawing. it sucks because the damn selling points are pretty much aimed at artists who have a preference for fountain pens:

>mix that shit together to get your own custom colour
>fountain pen safe inks, just needs a bit more diligence with cleaning out the particles
>pigment based ink, so has most of that good shit with lightfastness and archival properties (but do your own testing w/anything of that sort)

other brands have some of these things, like noodler's. however, because of my situation it was far cheaper to get the storia inks over the noodler's inks that i was looking for. if they were the 3oz bottles then i'd try to get them, but they were just 1oz (storia ink is 30ml) so noodler's lost out for me with that.

>>2726038
also storia & water resistance, how could i forget to add that feature. however, the blue ink in that line was kind of weird with that. i gotta test more when i get some more time


>>2725612
did it say waterproof or water resistant? if it was the former, that kinda sucks that they fucked up with that type of information. since it is refillable, have you looked into other fp-safe inks that could help you with what you need?

>>2726041
>>2725612
if you can do such a thing to it, that is. on my own train of thought so didn't look at the pen close enough to see the details before the post. wonder if that type of refill for that pen can be opened up a certain way to stick a blunt syringe into it though

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>>2726042
I was planning on refilling it with my own ink like I do my fountain pens and brush pens, but sadly the pen can't be opened up. And the refills are just tip and barrel replacements. Ah well. It's still a nice pen, but it doesn't feel any different than their disposable counterparts.

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Cheap brushes, quality oils, misc. supports.
No software.

Your general envy is my very success.

>>2726256
that's really a shame. going through the trouble of getting a pen you like, only to be limited with refilling options. perhaps if it ends up being good for you, that type of refill won't be an issue? you mentioned having other pens, do you lack one with a similar felt nib as this one you purchased?

the plus side i see with the pen you got there is that the refill is for the nib too... however at that point, it really does make your last comment correct. it's basically buying another pen, which really defeats the whole thing you were trying to do. refillable felt tip brush pens seem to be a bit uncommon from looking into it more. well, at least the ones where the refills do not make it seem like one is buying another pen altogether.

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just bought my first water brush. arre they really that good for using while on the go? the sketchbook i carry everyday cant really handle water all that well

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>>2726489
That's exactly it. Buying a replacement would be like buying their disposable counter parts. I do like the tip, but not enough to really commit to it.
All in all it is a nice pen. Been playing around with it, but to be perfectly honest it feels very similar to a regular old Micron.

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>>2726500
I personally love water brushes. I use mine with the winsor and newton watercolor set.

What kind of sketchbook do you use? I use a Graphaid hardbound 75lb sketchbook and I get very minimal warping. It also depends on how much water you use on your page as well. Light washes shouldn't be a problem.

>>2726416
wooow

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>>2726416
is that hummus basil and pesto dip i spy in the bottom right hand corner?

>>2726596
>Graphaid hardbound 75lb sketchbook

I tried googling this and didn't get a single hit, do you know if it's available on amazon?

>>2726863
I wish

>>2726899
They're kinda hard to find I guess. There's a company that produces them here in Los Angeles, so they might be a local thing. But honestly they feel no different than any regular black hardbound sketchbook.

https://www.artsupplywarehouse.com/prodDetail.php?id=16235

>>2726416
PYW

>>2727229
Look in the catalog, I'll be posting on popular demand in the Alchemical Approach-thread (op pic is a triptych with hooded brightly coloured figures on dark ground)

>Instead of shitting up this thread.

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>>2727210
wew, looks like those lower cost sketchbooks that would be in a craft store like michaels or ac moore. if the other anon can't find that one, they should just try to take the specifications (and price, if possible) from that book & try to find something similar.

>>2726581
the only possible replacement (from experience) i could suggest is a platinum felt tip brush pen, since it takes normal fountain pen refill cartridges & converters. it's easy enough to refill, but the nib probably will not be the same as that stylo there.

>>2689221
Use Uni pen, better than microns

>>2728059
it says Uni Pin Pen here you fucking shit
https://uniball.co.uk/?brands=uni-pin

anyone around with experience with a menso brush? did you like using it, and why? how differently does it perform from regular brushes?

>mfw years ago when I was in college the uni store got new management and downsized the art dept from 12 aisles to 1. I got arches watercolor sheets for $1 a page and copics for $.59 a marker. Spent $48 for a nearly full set.

>>2692139
underrated

>>2686644
> mad cat controller
Holy shit. I thought you only existed in memes

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I always wanted a giga pencil with a 4 mm led. I intuit that it might benefit me in some way, but I don't really know how.

Are these useful/enjoyable?

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>>2730073
I have one, I was really hyped at first, but trust me, a regular thick pencil is better - it's much lighter (you need a lot of metal in the mechanical one), thinner and the wooden body feels much nicer. Easier to sharpen as well.

The only advantage of the mechanical one is that it doesn't break if you carry it in a bag.

>>2730171

what would you say is the advantage of a thick led itself?

>>2695827
Oh Caveman, you so crazy. Most of people simply move the arm their holding the lead holder with to make marks instead of using a hammer.

>>2730215
Your hands don't look like they belong to a 19th century chimney sweep once you're done with your drawing.

>>2730215
If you're used to drawing with the overhand grip and using the side of the pencil (like you should be), it works great without easily breaking, giving you a lot more line variation compared to the regular pencil.
For sketchbook drawing, I'd go with the regular pencil. For big paper roll drawing (90% of the time for me), always the big pencil. The only disadvantage is that it gets dull easier.

>>2719196
comrade

>>2714690
perfection

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I don't know if there's any technical minded anons that could help me, I been looking to get some drafting pens, the usual suspects would be the Staedtlers, Rotrings or Koh-I-Noor, I don't know if anyone has any experience with them. I want an ISO set and neither brand seems to have a full set so I would have to get them individually which is an additional expense. Here's the heart of my question: I actually found a full set from Keuffel & Esser but that brand apparently is dead, so there's not much info about them they seem like a bit lesser quality than the others, but I'm basing that just on the fact that the color coding seemed blurrier than the Staedtlers, who knows what quality of the actual pens are like. So if anyone ever came across them I'd love to hear about it.
If they're as good as the others I think it would be neat to have them just for the rarity factor. Picture is the pens in question, should have taken my own picture.

I just use cheap, synthetic brushes. Cheap old nibs off ebay, and cheap ol' Speedball India Ink.

Getting decent paper for finished works is the only drain on my wallet, but for practice, anything will do fine.

amazon usa has pentel pocket brush pens on sale as of this post. about 5.40 usd for one package, including two refills. it's an add-on item though, so if just wanting the pen, ya gotta get 5 of them to bypass that rule.
medium aquash water brushes are a bit cheaper of course (still an add-on item) but don't see the pocket pens going for that cheap. around here, that shit doesn't go for any less than 15 usd even in typical art and/or crafts stores

>>2731154
well have you tried to use one at all ever? jumping into a vintage set as your first go is a little daunting if you haven't. if you can get it for a good discount, i guess it wouldn't be that bad of an idea. would have to weigh the cost vs some current shit and all of that. i would also imagine extra care would have to be taken for maintenance.
the cleaning part of a technical pen is the most important thing you have to be mindful of. don't leave it for long ass periods of time without any sort of use use. learned this the hard way when first getting a cheap refillable rapidograph 10 years ago to test it out.

>>2731643
>amazon usa has pentel pocket brush pens on sale as of this post. about 5.40 usd for one package
I've been meaning to get a second one, thanks for that. Damn thing is inking perfection.

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>>2731643
>well have you tried to use one at all ever?
Not really, any real work is done on the computer, I just hand draft for my own enjoyment, and when I do that, so far I've just used some Staedtler or Sakura disposables.

But I want to move up to the real thing. Because #1- they're cool and #2- disposables aren't reliable enough, it's frustrating when I'm about to start working on something only to find out I have to stop because some of the pens aren't working and need to get new ones.

I think that on the long run it would be less headache inducing to just fill up reusable pens before each use and clean them up afterwards, than randomly find out I need to get new stuff. I guess the Copic Multiliner SP could be a nice middle ground.

It wasn't my intention to get a vintage set, but the K&Es are actually slightly cheaper than non-discontinued brands and they got the vintage allure on top. My hesitation is that since they're pre-internet age, there's not info on them or if their quality matched that of other brands.

It's tempting to get them just for the hell of it as kind of a museum piece. But I do want to get some use out of whatever I get.

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All I ended up using, though I have more shit lying in a box.

>>2731939
those pigment liners from sakura, etc, are close enough & are technically (kek) in the same category. most refillable technical pens lack the felt tip as those disposable pens do (copic sp is definitely the middle ground, as you said). price point for a small rapidograph set from koh-i-noor (a pen & some ink) is about 20 usd. that one is probably the next step up from copic sp, since the steel nib for koh-i-noor is typical for a technical pen.

if you go through with buying the vintage set eventually, perhaps try to look into spare parts (replacement nibs) if possible. it'd be nice if modern parts would end up being a quick fix, but seems like it would ruin the whole vintage appeal about the set. really not trying to scare you off from it though, desu just my own paranoia slipping through. investing it in a set just to have something get fucked up without any resolution sucks

>>2731643
Pentel brush pen sale must be done, oh well.

whats cheaper to practice with daily? pencils or leads to m. pencils?

>>2732620
Leads, I suppose, but you need a decent mechanical pencil with decent leads else you just don't get the width for a readable sketch.

What should i use for modeldrawing/painting?
Im out of ink and want to use a brush.