Versailles Treaty

>>3285828
not harsh enough, germany should have been destroyed as an entity

>>3285835
But why though? I know that hating Germans its a big meme on here because of Hitler, but do you really think that enforcing what made Hitler popular in an even harsher way would be good?

>>3285828

>Every people has the right to self-determination!
>Except the Austrians who want to be part of Germany, fuck them.
>Fuck the Irish also.
>Also, Germany is entirely responsible for the war, never mind that Russia mobilized first.

>>3285828
the whole treaty process after the war's end was bullshit, pretty much everyone but british and french hated it

>>3285870
It said "Germany and its allies are responsible for the war" so the Entente didn't blame Germany only, and such view was expected considering Germany had lost.
The issue wasn't the treaty itself, but the fact Germany wasn't invaded, which allowed Ludendorff to develop the "stabbed in the back" myth. The French troops should have taken Berlin.

>>3285887
>everyone but british and french hated it
The French hated it too, especially the military. The failure of the republican government to secure the terms France wanted was a contributing factor to why the military was so eager to set up the authoritarian Vichy regime after the Battle of France in 1940.

>>3285928

What French troops? By this point in the war, the French army was basically dead. Both Britain and France were drafting old men and young boys just to stay in the game. The only way that the Entente can reach Berlin is if they somehow convince the Americans to invade Germany for them. And why would they do that?

>>3285870
>Except the Austrians who want to be part of Germany, fuck them.
Is this actually true? Or are you just saying this because "muh Grossdeutschland"?

>>3285859
>"because of hitler"
>imploring the eternal teuton hasn't been a blight long before him

>>3285951
Austria wasn't allowed to join Germany, not sure if they wanted.

>>3285953
>lmao Krauts xD

>>3285828
It was perfectly fine. Germany just fucked up and eventually chimped out.

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>>3285828
>Inb4 Germany should've been given back everything
>Inb4 Germany should've been completely destroyed
No

>>3285943
>This shit again
Allied High Command was drawing up plans for a series of 1919 offensives that would take them all the way to Berlin.

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>>3285959
>Hey remember that Pan Germanism thing you guys invaded France and Denmark over?
>Just stop doing that
>, plus we're going to take all of your colonies and take all the land you had and give it to everyone that isn't you :DDD
>Dont make us occupy the ruhr!
Yet people wonder why National Socialism became popular kek

>>3285951
>>3285958
The Paris Peace Conference kind of bungled the matter of German Austria altogether.

>no referendum for joining germany, a fairly popular idea due to pan-german sentiment and more importantly a lack of any better ideas on where Austrians should go now that their empire was over
>czechoslovakia created! even though if we went by demographics it'd be called czechogermanoslovakia, no way this could end up being a problem!
>when we said "national self determination" we meant "all of that new gigantic Austrian diaspora can fuck off back to Austria ASAP"

>>3285959
do you actually know what it said? it was too harsh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

>>3285828
Germany should have been brought back to it's pre 1870 borders (albeit further rationalized, along the lines of current states of germany)

>>3285993
No, why shouldn't the Germans have the right to a nation state?

>>3285990
>Germany has to pay reparations that are a drop in the bucket (Most of which never get paid)
>Gets to keep its intact industrial heartland
>The limits on its military allow it to focus on other stuff, like economy
Meanwhile, France:
>Industrial heartland devastated by Germany blowing up factories and infrastructure as they retreat
>Reparations are not nearly enough to pay for all this
>Lost much more of its population percentage-wise than Germany
>On top of this, the Germans actively sabotage their own economy in the 20s because they know France needs that money
>Despite everything mentioned above, France is treated as the aggressor when they occupy the Ruhr and later when they build the Maginot Line (A series of DEFENSIVE fortifications)

France was the true victim of Versailles.

>>3286032
Oh it's the frogaboo who thinks that Germany wasn't completely devasted by the war either, and that the Treaty of Versailles, after levying the harshest reperations per it's GDP of all the other axis powers and sending it into total political free fall with endless amounts of coup attempts and street wars, just wasn't harsh enough.

Leddit is a much better place for you.
>It was Germany's fault for the hyper inflation
>Germany should've been completely destroyed :DDD
Don't even start, just go back. You want to go back. Just go.

>>3285962
>>3285962
>>3285828

>Germany must pay reparations of £2,000 million to Belgium for the atrocities committed there.
>Germany forbidden from constructing any more battleships, forever. No military restrictions besides that.
>France gets Alsace-Lorraine but nothing else
>The Kaiser is permanently removed from power. The treaty explicitly endorses the Weimer Republic as the proper and legitimate government of Germany.
>Austria is made part of Germany
>League of Nations is formed, America actually joins this time

Done. WW2 averted.

>>3285828
>>3285859
Germany should have been separated in two parts and eternally militarily occupied
That's what happened after WW2 and it worked well enough

>>3286072

t. Stalin

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>>3285943
>What French troops? By this point in the war, the French army was basically dead.

Are you joking?
Pic related, the offensive that won the war

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>>3286032
Yes, France was the country in which the war was fought, that's why there was a lot of destruction.

Still
>drop in the bucket
lmao, it's not like Germany had any debts because of the war or something
>Gets to keep its intact industrial heartland
which was then occupied by the French and essentialy taken from Germany
also they had to open the main shipping rivers as interntational waters, limit their merchant fleet unneccesarily and give up all colonies, large chunks of their country, populace and natural ressources.
>The limits on its military allow it to focus on other stuff, like economy
I'm sure that was the intent of the restriction, not to assure there was no way for Germany to resist the treaty

>>3285979

Oh, they were "drawing up plans for a series of offensives"? Do you know how many times during WW1 they drew up plans for offensives and it didn't fucking work?

>>3286032
also:
>France is treated as the aggressor when they occupy the Ruhr
yes, you are the aggressor when you invade a defenseless country.

also it's not like hundreds of thousands of Germans starved during the winter because of the allied blockade... where were the reperations for that?

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Germany had every right to try and claim a place in the sun.

>>3286047
>use the term "Axis" for WW1
>thinks he has any credibility

Germany is the country that got off the easiest on the losing side
Meanwhile, A-H and the Ottoman Empire were entirely partionned, while Germany only lost the lands it had recently stolen

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>>3286129

>Germans are trying to conquer the world!

*meanwhile*

>>3286005
Germany is less of a nation than Yugoslavia.

>>3285828
it wasn't harsh enough, germany should have been balkanised

>>3285835
Go back to /int/ with all of the other retards.

>>3286147
Britain only invaded shitskins
Germany attacked white countries, which is over the line

>>3286141
Yes, its not like the Ottoman Empire and A-H were Empires composed mainly of subordinate peoples whereas Germany was a nation state with small minoroties at the border. No difference at all.
>>3286159
>Posting on a history board
>>3286165
(You)
>>3286178
>Crimean war
>Boer war
>>>/pol/

>>3286147
While this map may look impressive, keep in mind Britain only loosely controlled those colonies and relied heavily on the natives support.

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>>3285859
a united Germany is bad for Europe

it's like when they keep trying to make communism happen, stop, it's not gonna work

the >H>R>E is unironically a better geopolitical Germany

>>3286196
Provide logical reasons for that statement.

>>3286181
Yet, both the Austrian and Ottoman empires were older than Germany. It would have been completely feasible to create an independent Bavaria, considering kingdoms still existed within Germany and that some german states weren't too happy to join Germany in the first place.

>>3285887
>everyone but british and french hated it
The French hated it with passion, their long awaited victory, paid with the blood of millions, has been stolen by supranational lenders. They simply wanted to erase Germany.

>>3286238
No it wouldn't. Germany was a nation state, the official reason why many territories were stripped from Germany was peoples self-determination. The German people overwhelimgly supported the idea of a nation state. Only local rulers wanted to keep their independence. The fact that the unified nation state was young doesn't matter.

>>3286141
>while Germany only lost the lands it had recently stolen
Wow the level of butthurt frogaboo is intense lmao.

ALSAUCE LORAINE IS GERMAN CLAY

>>3286091
The back of the German Army was completely broken following the Hundred Days Offensive, getting to Berlin would have been a cakewalk.
>>3286100
Maybe Germany should have paid its debts, it was fully capable of doing so.

>But muh impossible to pay reparations

Following the Franco-Prussian War, France had to pay the largest war reparation IN HISTORY, and did so in three years with their country occupied. Germany never managed to pay off the comparatively tiny amount of money the owed following WWI.

>>3285943
>Pathetic hun trying to equate his band of malnourished bandits with the might of the well fed ("les soldats mangerons chaud" t. Petain , disciplined ("une main de fer dans un gant de velours", t. Petain), technologically superior and assisted ("j'attends les chars et les Américains", t. Petain) French army.
lmao, Foch was right, the allies should've rased Berlin.

>>3286288
Look at this butthurt revanchist, proportionally it was the same amount as Napoopan forced on Prussia back in 1807.

>>3286047
Are you trying to say that the German industrial capacity was damaged in any way?
What?
Do you have brain damage?

>>3286315

Foch was the reason that the French army was crippled in the first place.

>>3286170
>>>/pol/

>>3286263
>Only local rulers wanted to keep their independence.
Bavarians still feel different even today from the rest of Germany and weren't big fans of the Prussians. The religion itself was a problem. If the Entente managed to create an independent Austria, I don't see why an independent Bavaria would have been impossible. Perhaps making a new state with both Bavaria and Austria, not sure how well that would have turned out, but it was completely possible.

>>3286336
That would be Joffre and Nivelle you illiterate subhuman

>>3286339
>>>/int/
And stay there with the rest of the mouth breathers.

>>3286342
Are you a Bavarian or a German?

>>3286254

Maybe they shouldn't have started the war by allying with Czarist Russia against Austria-Hungary.

>>3286346
>that response
so you are fom /pol/ rite?

>>3286353
What does that shithole have anything to do with this? I'm telling you to go back meme spout with the other retards at /int/.

>>3286327
>Proportioned based on population
>Population
Population was an incredibly shitty way to go about the indemnity if they wanted it to actually be proportional.

In fact, the war reparations the French had to pay were so large it triggered a worldwide economic recession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Depression

>>3286254

>getting to Berlin would have been a cakewalk.

If that were true, then France would have actually done it.

Both too harsh and not harsh enough to prevent war. They should have known Germany would be uniquely pissed by the whole thing
>Government all of a sudden is a new government founded by a bunch of socialist
>Lose territory
>Blamed for war and shamed
>Huge war payments that fuck up currency
>Never even saw troops invade so its easy to believe Germany could win
So of course they start another war

>>3286375

It was wrong for Germany to force that sort of burden on France. However, it was equally wrong for France to do the same to Germany after WW1. After WW1, Germany had a new government, based on democratic principles. It was wrong to hold this new democratic government reasonable for the previous monarchist government which was deposed.

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>>3286380
>Government all of a sudden is a new government founded by a bunch of socialist
Not Versailles fault, their previous one had collapsed
>Lose territory
That happens when you lose wars
They should have felt lucky not to end up like A-H or the Ottomans
>Blamed for war and shamed
They were the ones who escalated it, pic related
>Huge war payments that fuck up currency
When you destroy your enemies territory and then lose, expect big reparation
Anyway, it's not Versailles that fucked their currency but the worldwide US-spawned economical crisis known as the "Great Depression"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#Effects
>Never even saw troops invade so its easy to believe Germany could win
Yeah, France and Britain were retarded to accept Germany's surrender before fucking up the country
In the end, this act of mercy toward German people turned against them

>>3286332
No, I'm trying to say that if the labor force is incapacitated due to starvation, civil war, seizure of assets in German colonies, occupied like the ruhr, endless political strife, etc...it become a bit hard to say that Germany was unaffected by the Treaty of Versailles compared to France. France was affected more by actual warfare destroying infrastructure , but it still had all of it's colonies intact. Both recovered economic stability by the mid 20's. Germany, however, suffered multiple revolutions and the disentgration of it's former state.

Versailles treaty affected Germany more.

>>3286405

The only thing that Germany did wrong was attacking Belgium and Luxembourg, which were neutral countries. France was a perfectly legitimate target because of its alliance with Russia. This is why I say that reparations should have been paid exclusively to Belgium.

>>3286411
You overestimate the importance of colonies. Alsace itself was more valuable for France than all its colonies in Africa.

>>3286405
So you are French then

>>3286224
>a united Germany is bad for Europe
instigated WWI, started WWII, and is now trying to make the EU supreme legal/political authority over each member countries

>it's like when they keep trying to make communism happen, stop, it's not gonna work
this has been widely discussed on this board and site

>the >H>R>E is unironically a better geopolitical Germany
all the German statelets were enthralled in a convoluted arrangement that made the 'empire' a non-factor by the 18th century
and a lot of this shit it did cost had more of a religious background, so you could just as much blame the Roman Church

>>3286472

Nice job sinking your credibility with Brexit-tier propaganda.

>>3286451
>This is why I say that reparations should have been paid exclusively to Belgium.
Yes, I'm sure the French would have been pleased to know that Germany, that occupied their lands, bombed medieval cathedral and castles, destroyed their coal mines won't pay anything to them.

>>3286488

I'm not sure what your point is. Of course they don't like it. They can't do anything about it, though. They're completely dependent on Americans at this point. Yeah, you can keep saying "KEEP PUSHING TO BERLIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" but the truth is that there is a simple reason why France didn't actually do that: they couldn't.

>>3286464
I think your forgetting about French colonies in Indochina and Madagascar as well. Having Northern Africa certainly helped as well, meanwhile ALL german colonies were seized.
>Alsauce Loraine
Which was rebuilt eventually and given to France.

>>3286499
>They're completely dependent on Americans at this point
Not really, no. The Americans are equipped by the French. When the war is over, most of those American units are still training, and don't participate. France still has millions men capable to fight, the British troops, and they can use the Italian troops that just defeated Austria, and with its forces in the Balkans can open a new front in the south.

>>3286451
>This is why I say that reparations should have been paid exclusively to Belgium.

Are you retarded?
Reparations arent about the "innocence" of the victim or anything
It's about a country that defeated another one in a war getting repaid for damages BECAUSE IT CAN (it just won a war over the causer of said damages)

>>3286499
>but the truth is that there is a simple reason why France didn't actually do that: they couldn't.

The real reason is that the war had lasted 4 years and caused millions dead, so when the Germans offered to surrender (which meant victory for France), the French accepted instead of autistically refusing and pushing to Berlin

>>3286554
Yes, and? Indochina was the only colony that was profitable for France. Troops from the colonies did play their part, but losing those colonies in Africa wasn't such a big deal. I don't think it stopped Germany from starting a new war 20 years later.

>>3286351
What is right or wrong and who started the war has nothing to do here, the roots of the war were several generations old. The Versaille Treaty was a gift of god for Germany at this point, that's what I'm saying.

>>3286377
Are you kidding? Germany was on the verge of collapsing, not only it would have been a cakewalk (German military capacity was at its dead end) but the German Population would have welcomed the French troops for a piece of bread.
Nothing happened because for the first time in history the bankers handed the bill before the end of the fights, and forced a treaty that no one wanted. Welcome into the financial civilization.

>>3286555

>France still has millions men capable to fight
>14 year old boys
>58 year old granddads

Yeah, sure.

>>3286400
The nation of Germany was responsible for the damages caused in France and Belgium. The Weimar Republic, being the recognized successor to the previous government, also had to inherit the responsibility for those damages.

I'm sorry, but changing your government type isn't a Get Out of Jail Free card.

>>3286609

>It would have been a cakewalk!!!!!!!!

Okay, so then why didn't they just do it? Pretty big hole in your theory. If they could have done it so easily, then they certainly would have done so.

>Nothing happened because for the first time in history the bankers handed the bill before the end of the fights

Okay, so now we're scapegoating "the bankers" now. This just gets better and better! So these mysterious bankers were completely powerless until 1918 when they suddenly took control of the French government? Interesting theory.

>>3285859
>>3285828
and all other trash

STOP pitying Germany
STOP this attitude
STOP idolatring frustrated losers

believe me, I can't wait for the next. But you Werhaboos should really not.

>>3286625
>Okay, so then why didn't they just do it?

See >>3286574 massive retard
You don't refuse a surrender just because you could invade the enemy
Futhermore, when Foch accepted the German surrender, he didnt know that politician would fuck the peace so hard with their kind Versailles treaty

>>3286610
France still had substantial manpower reserves and food by the end of the war. The same could not be said of Germany.
>>3286625
>Okay, so then why didn't they just do it?
Because France thought they could get their terms in an armistice without further bloodshed. Unfortunately, Wilson fucked everything up with "muh 14 points" and at that point it was too late to resume hostilities.

>>3286614
>Germany is the reason why WW1 happened
>REEEE FUCK GERMANS
Jesus, Europe destroyed itself over colonial interests, pride, and industry and you are STILL stuck in the same mindset that killed millions of people.

No one was to blame for WW1 solely, to say otherwise is fallacious.

>>3286639
Wilson was the powerless president of a still irrelevant nation
French and British policians (those who had the decisional power unlike Wilson) are the one who fucked up by getting indoctrinated by him

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>>3286628
>Stop idolizing frustrated losers
I love liberals always say this, yet when we talk about European Colonization of Africa and America suddenly it's
>Waaaah why did this happen?
>Have you no heart?

>>3286642
>The retreating German Army didn't destroy French industry and infrastructure in one last autistic spergfit
>The Rape of Belgium didn't happen
I'm sorry Hans, but you have to pay up for your crimes.

>>3286642
>No one was to blame for WW1 solely, to say otherwise is fallacious.

Guess no one was to blame for WW2 either then
Sure Nazi Germany invaded several nations in a row (just like the German Empire in 1914), but if the Entente countries that reacted to German aggressiveness in 1914 are just as much to blame for WW1 as Germany itself, then same goes for Allied nations that reacted to Nazi aggressiveness in WW2

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>>3286181
Hungary was fucked harder in the post-war treaties than Germany or any other country of the central powers

>>3286610
>what is a world wide empire
France had tons of meat.

>>3286625
>Okay, so then why didn't they just do it?
Because for numerous causes the military suddenly had no word to say. But you're a fool if you think the walk to Berlin was somehow difficult, Germany in late 1918 was lost for good, they were lacking of everything and especially food. The armistice saved them from destruction.

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>>3286614
>>3286614
>>3286614

Yeah, and crippling the Weimer Republic with outrageously huge reparations based on shit the previous government did accomplished nothing except allowing the Nazis to take over. The Weimer Republic was a new democracy that should have been treated as such. It shouldn't have been declared responsible for the actions of the monarchist state that preceded it.

Were some reparations warranted? Yes, Belgium needed to be compensated for the damages that it suffered when the German army passed through. Belgium was neutral, and so attacking through Belgium was a crime against peace. Reparations of £2,000 million should have been paid exclusively to Belgium.

In addition, Germany would be forced to scrap all of her battleships and permanently barred from constructing any more battleships to appease the Anglo. This gives Britain guaranteed naval dominance which is all they really cared about in the first place. France gets Alsace-Lorraine but nothing else.

There. Now that's a proper peace treaty would have looked like. Under this agreement, Europe experiences a new age of peace and prosperity under the guiding principles of democracy and free trade. WW2 is completely averted. The Nazi party never comes into existence and there is no holocaust. Perfect.

>>3286678
You're autistic

1. Germany declared war on France, ruined parts of its country, killed millions of Frenchmen and then lost to France
Thinking France shouldnt enforce reparations for that on Germany is dumb

2. WW2 would have happened regardless
German revanchism was based on butthurt about having lost the war while thinking they were better than everyone else
From the moment they lost, the only way to prevent another nationalistic chimpout from them was to divide the country and occupy it militarily forever
That what happened after WW2 and that's why Germans never chimped out again

>>3286691

>Germany declared war on France

Only because of France's alliance with Czarist Russia. France was a legitimate target. However, Belgium was neutral and thus not a legitimate target. So it is right and proper for Belgium to receive compensation totaling £2,000 million, which is what Keynes considered to be the maximum penalty.

>WW2 would have happened regardless

In my scenario, Germany never loses any territory except Alsace-Lorraine so you wouldn't see the kind of revanchism that occurred IRL. Also, because reparations are limited to £2,000 million there is no hyper-inflation. The Nazis never come into existence, and there is no holocaust either. The Weimer Republic continues to this very day, a shining example of liberal democracy in action.

>>3286713
>Also, because reparations are limited to £2,000 million there is no hyper-inflation. The Nazis never come into existence

Retard
German economical probels didnt steam from Versailles, you gigantic memester
Stop believing Hitler's propaganda
They were caused by an internationational economical crisis that hit the entire world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#Effects

>>3286728
are you sure? nothing in german economy was problematic before 1929?

>>3286652
>Let Germans starve by the hundreds of thousands
>B-but much industry!
Lmao
>>3286656
>Guess WW2 wasn't solely the Germans fault either
No. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. If you're just completely unfamiliar with the history of central and eastern Europe , then you'd probably blame Germany for everything.

I dont

>>3286628
What the fuck? I made this thread because i was curious of what were the opinions of /his/ on the subject. You seem like a leftypol newbie that throws buzzwords without knowing their meaning, so go back to your containment board if you have to.

It was no harsher than the terms of the Treaty of Brest Litorsk. Germany set the precedent, the Entente only followed it.

>>3286762
Naziboos BTFO

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>>3286762
>Comparing violent communist Bolsheviks who committed mass murder upon everybody (even their own party) to anyone else
>Treating the Bolsheviks with dignity

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>>3286728

I cited John Maynard Keynes, the greatest economist of all time. You cited a fucking Wikipedia article. Here, brainlet, try reading this, you might learn something. You should ask yourself, "if a brilliant man like Keynes was completely disgusted by Versailles, then who am I to defend it?"

>>3286784
So you think out of mere contempt for the Bolsheviks the Entente should have been lighter upon the Germans? That's ignoring the basic political realities of the time.

>>3286770

leftypol leave pls

>>3286762

>Germany set the precedent

No, that was Ludendorff. The German people chased him away and created a new democratic government which had no connection to Brest-Litovsk.

>>3286784
one side will always see the other with contempt. the issue is that if you treat them with contempt, when it's your time to lose, you can get treated with contempt.

makes sense Brest Litorsk -> Versailles. it's not like germany could complain, since they had just done it to Russia.

and they were fresh commies, germany had been fighting imperial russia, not commies, commies gave germany the win because they wanted to focus internally

>>3286791
Keynes was an idiot who started the "Versailles was too harsh" meme in the first place.

Try reading "The Political Consequences of the Peace" from 1920, it predicts everything from nationalists seizing power in Germany using the "stab in the back" myth to a war with Poland over Danzig.

Butthurt Wehraboos in this thread, fucking hell it's embarrassing.

Germans simply cannot stop destroying Europe, it's in their blood to wreck everything around them. If Germany was a single person they'd be diagnosed as severely autistic.

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>>3286791
>You should ask yourself, "if a brilliant man like Keynes was completely disgusted by Versailles, then who am I to defend it?"

BTFO

>>3286801
>Germany loses the war
>Ludendorff resigns
>"H-hey we chased him away guys"

>>3286835
How is this statement any different from "Niggers are stupid" or "Jews are scoundrels, its in their blood"?

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>>3286791
>the greatest economist of all time

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>>3286833

>Keynes was an idiot

Yeah, I'm sure that this world respected economist was an idiot. You're the real genius.

>>3286842
>
oh crap it is bait, i'm dumb

>>3286841

>Ignoring the part where a new government based on liberal democratic principles was formed

>>3285958
Austria actively tried to join Germany in 1918-1919.

>>3286646

By blaming Wilson, you are admitting that France was dependent on the Americans.

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>Neither religion nor race affinity nor diversity of political social institutions availed to save a competitor of England. The list of commercial rivals or would-be rivals is fairly large, and gives the economic key to the reasons for the great wars of Britain. In that list we find Spain, Holland, France, Denmark and now Germany. Britain must rule the waves, and when the continental nations wished to make at the Hague, a law forbidding the capture of merchant vessels during war, Britain refused her assent. Naturally! It is her power to capture merchant ships during war that enables Britain to cut the throat of a commercial rival at her own sweet will.
>If she had not the power she would need to depend upon her superiority in technical equipment and efficiency; and the uprise in other countries of industrial enterprise able to challenge and defeat her in this world market has amply demonstrated hat she has not that superiority and longer.
>The United States and Germany lead in crowding Britain industrially; the former cannot be made a target for the guns of militarist continental Europe, therefore escapes for the time being as Britain never fights a white power single-handed. But Germany is caught and has to suffer for her industrial achievements.

>>3286755
>>3286647
>liberal
>lefty

Go back to /pol, where you trash belong.
The only reason you made this thread was to get a confirmation that someone else, somewhere on the internet, is jacking off on nazis just like you are. And guess what, 90% of people click on threads they're interested about. Bad news, /pol garbage is only interesting to /pol garbage. So you get the same opinion as yours and are comforted. Now you are in your safe zone, you can jack off happily. All good, then,for a time.

However, if one day you wake up and decide to stop being a fucking disgrace to us, and if you ever want to be a proud representative of the white race you probably are a member of, you could get out of your frustration, open some books, read, and go to the real white european civilization.
Pro hint: it's neither Slavs, nor it is Nazis.
Them being racists while having contributed shit to our culture is really sickening.
Fuck nazis, you don't need to be leftist to say it.

also, >>3286647:
what's the fucking link ?!

>>3286797
Yes, and no thinking otherwise is ignoring the political realities of the time since this was a full on revolution by communists, not some brief period in France where the Paris Commune tried to seize power, this was a full one slaughter of civilians and political opponents (many former allies) by Bolsheviks
>>3286816
>Dude you can just treat anyone you want to with contempt lmao
No. Bolsheviks deserved nothing because they performed mass murders on civilians and over there the tzar in the name of spreading a socialist revolution in Europe. Which then spread onto Germany, Poland, and Finland.

>>3286873
>Weimer
>Liberal
*Leftist

>>3286936
>Implying I said anything about leftists being liberals
Low IQ anon is Low IQ
>Whats the connection
>Dude if you lose a war then stop bitching
>FREE THE NATIVE AMERICANS
>AMERICA IS A FASCIST REGIME OPPRESSING MUH NATIVES
>REEEEE
really dude? How stupid do you have to b

treaty has some 440 articles. 410 are about punishing germany.

Danzig corridor, instead of giving poland Königsberg .

forcing a country with no democratic tradition, to have an elected representative government.

>>3286943
Cannot read two lines, boy?
I linked to posts. One is calling me leftist, the other liberal. You can go to sleep, I'm not wasting more time on human stupidity.

>>3286854

Keynes wasn't an idiot, but he was an economist first when politics played a larger role in the terms of Versallies than economics.

Not obtaining reparations for France would be politically unacceptable for the French, who suffered most of the permernant damage to their economy.

Think McArthur asking to nuke China because he thought ut was the best way to win the Korean War militarily without any sense of the political consequences.

>>3286953
Except one of those isn't me you moron lmao

Welcome to 4chan where we don't have user names.

Go back to lleddit

>>3286947
>forcing a country with no democratic tradition, to have an elected representative government.

Poor little Germans
Why were the Allies so harsh, forcing them to abandon tyranny...

Trianon was far harsher, and Germans had it coming

In fact they're lucky that the French didn't decide the terms or their country would have been grinded to mincemeat

>>3286955
>north koreans are basically defeated
>millions of chinks and their tanks and airplanes stream in from china.
>macarthur wanted to do what was the commonly accepted idea on how future wars would be won. by having the air force nuke the enemy into submission. it was also the only way to cut off china reinforcements.
>fire macarthur because you are worried about the soviets starting shit in europe in retaliation.
>stalemate the war for 3 more years and grind up a bunch of UN soldiers in the process.

MacArthur did nothing wrong, for once.

>>3286943
>Dude if you lose a war then stop bitching
But neo nazis and Wehrmacht adorers do that all the time.
>muh Versailles treaty was too harsh (eventhough we never paid a cent of it, and it was calculated as the same with inflation of 1870's treaty imposed BY Germany, which was paid fully. (AND also in every war in the history of man, the loser is not treated kindly. But sure, if it's the German shits, then of course we can make an exception. They're not worthy of doing anything but being assholes.)

>>3286947
Now take this knowledge, and compare with the rest of historical winner-loser treaties. Is it really too harsh on Germany?

>>3286964
You do realize that I can adress two people (or more!) in the same post, do you? Like I can call you and OP a faggot at the same time. I can even concatenate the argumentation for it. That's because you like dick. That makes you a faggot.

>>3286976
only what happened to Germany after ww2 is harsher.

>>3286981
Well then, I can only hope they use that as an excuse to start the third one. (And that you find a German book that dates back to before the third Reich. Well I know they kinda burnt them to be sure the propaganda would prevail. But one can hope.)

>>3286976
>But neo nazis and Wehrmacht adorers do that all the time
And liberals do it too. It's almost like you have a double standard and aren't willing to.recognize that you can't have both have no sympathy for losers and actually care what happens to minorites when they lose.

:^) next time we colonize the world we better make sure to kill every last native. Native Americans and Africans are fucking losers who cares what they think.
>I can post two different people's opinions and call.the same person if it suits my argument
Umm... No

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>>3287013
>Germans burnt all the books in Germany to engage in damnatio Memoriae

Except they didn't burn books to prevent exposure to the ideas, they burned the books to protest the ideas they represented. Sort of like how people are trying to destroy statues in the South for some reason...

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Not enough.

>Germany lost little land and what it did lose was mostly ethnically Polish
>Germany's industry was basically untouched by the war while they ravaged France's; the treaty did not balance that out
>Germany entered the war with Europe's largest continental GDP, exited the war with the same and underwent great economic growth until the depression
>reparations were designed to look much worse than they really were; French/British specifically designed reparations that Germany was able to pay
>total bill that Germany had to pay was $12.5 billion; to appease their populations at home, the allies designed the treaty to look like Germany was paying $33 billion. The Germans were able to turn this around and make it look like they were forced to pay far more than they could afford.

The conditions Germany offered as a PEACE arrangement in 1916 were much more harsh than what they got from what was a fairly unambiguous defeat. And let's not even think about comparing this treaty to what they imposed on the Russian Empire after they won that war.

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>>3287120
>When you fall for so much revisionist propoganda that you look like a moron to anyone who actually knows anything about the subject

>>3287120
completely ignoring the occupation of the Rhineland from the end of ww1 to 1936 when the German army took it back from the French.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_occupation_of_the_Rhineland

>>3285835
Go away Foch. Don't you have an airplane to sneer at or something?

>>3287120

>The conditions Germany offered as a PEACE arrangement in 1916 were much more harsh

I very strongly doubt that.

>>3287140
>occupation of the Rhineland from the end of ww1 to 1930
France left in 1930

>>3287140
>from the end of ww1 to 1936 when the German army took it back from the French.

Kek
It ended in 1930 because France decided to leave
And stopping to occupy Germany is what caused WW2
That's why US troops are still occupying Germany nowdays, 70 years after the end of WW2
Germans can't be trusted with freedom

>>3285835
>>3285958
>>3286628

frogaboos fuck off

>>3285962
if they got danzig hitler wouldnt have shat himself
to be fair to hitler poland was being a bit of a faggot

>>3288340
No, Poland was not being a faggot. You fucking retards keep ignoring what happened half a year earlier in the Sudetenland and the Czech state

>hey, czechs, just give us sudetenland and you'll be fine
>haha jk you're all germany now

>hey, poland. just give us the danzig corridor and you'll be fine
>...

>>3286178
"look look how stupid I can be!"

- You


This board is filled with shitty leftie "historians" fresh out of or fresh in Uni .

keep forgetting german philosophers, composers,writers,engineers etc pp.
Just hate it with a passion because of propaganda from the 20s and the 30s and 40s.
good call you dense cunts.

Germany won the war basically, US saved it tho.

Underage memesters ruined this board. They kept spamming their Bomber Harris and other shitty memes. Now you can't be critical of Germany on /his/ without being considered one of those faggots.

>>3285828
No, Versailles was not harsh at all.
>Germany was left as a sovereign, unoccupied, unitary country
>territorial losses were minimal, many lands were ethnically non-German and some were the subject of plebiscites
>German industry was left largely intact
>the initial German reparations were not fully enforced anyway and the German economy recovered

The problem is assuming German elites would be fine with softer terms. This is nonsense. They believed they deserved to be treated as victors and would have seen any concession as an insult. It would not have prevented revanchist nationalism. Italian fascism appeared in a victorious country.
Another mistake is oversimplifying the 1918-1933 period and assuming Nazi takeover was imminent. This was a very complex period with many political and economic changes and at the end of the 1920s Weimar Germany showed sign of prosperity but then the Great Depression hit.

Complete occupation of Germany right after WWI would have been a rational option. That way the Entente can enforce the reparation and prevent German rearmament directly. The German public would be aware that they have been defeated. Total dismemberment would not even be necessary.

>>3285928
The French had 4 million troop and the Brits had 3.4 million with American coming in fast by the end of the war
And also remember that their southern borders were exposed with Italy rushing,Romania prevailing and Serbia being reconquered
Do some fucking proper reading next time

>>3286974
>Chinese with tanks and planes
Anon...
The PLA did not have those commodity during the war,with air force only exiatimg after Stalin decided that they were worthy enough in 1951
MacArthur was retarded thinking that he could violate a county border and get off wily nily

>Germany had nothing to do with starting the war, France should just have complied and hand over their forts!
>Belgian atrocities didn't happen, it's british propaganda!
>Versailles was too harsh and caused Hitler, imagine what harsher terms would have done!
>The Werhmart was clean, it was only the SS that commited warcrimes!
What's the most non-sensical?

>>3285859
>enforcing what made Hitler popular in an even harsher way
That's where you're wrong. Humiliating and destroying isn't the same.

>>3286880
source? (I agree, just curious and want to learn more)

>>3288590

>The problem is assuming German elites would be fine with softer terms.

You blew it. The German "elites" didn't support the Nazis. The lower classes did. Hitler was a fucking corporal, the 2nd lowest rank in any army. He certainly wasn't "elite" by any reasonable standard.

>>3285835
This. Germany's existence was a mistake and upset the balance of power.

>>3288327
Anglo not a frog.

>>3288340
>poland was being a bit of a faggot
How, exactly?
Poland didn't own Danzig during the Interbellum. It was a free city under administration by the League of Nations. The war started because Hitler wanted the Danzig corridor. When Poland refused to just hand the area over as had been the case with Czechia ceding the Sudetenland and getting entirely annexed in the process while the world remained silent, Hitler invaded.
Fun fact: contrary to Nazi propaganda, Poland was actually giving out three railroads to Germany for the use of extraterritorial trains to pass without Polish interference.

>>3288958
Destroying a recently formed nation would obviously cause uprisings mate, unless you also have in mind genociding every inhabitant from the region.