Arms & Armour thread

>>>/k/

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does anyone know anything about this suit of armor? I'm pretty new to learning about armor and it's god damn beautiful

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>>3269178
My uneducated guess is that it's a replica of an early-16th century armor. I also think it's incomplete. There should be large pauldrons covering the gaps between the armor and the torso.

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>>3269210

HECK

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>>3269178
>Armor for Field and Tilt
>Date: ca. 1550–75
>Culture: Italian
>Medium: –Steel

>This garniture is unusually large. It contains pieces for use in battle and for the tilt in both the Italian and German fashions. The tilt was a tournament fought on horseback between two opponents armed with lances and separated by a lengthwise barrier.

>The armor as mounted is equipped with a helmet and vambraces (arm defenses) for the tournament. The buffe (chin defense), second breastplate (acc. no. 27.159.2), and manifer (reinforced left gauntlet) (27.159.6) would have been added to make the armor ready for exchange pieces for different forms of the tournament. For the German tilt, the trellised targe (shield) (27.159.7), small elbow defense (27.159.5), and small stomach defense (27.159.3) were added. For the Italian tilt, these elements were replaced by the form-fitting reinforce covering the left half of the torso and left shoulder (mezzo sovrapetto) (27.159.2) and the larger elbow defense (soprabacciale) (27.159.4).

>The garniture also includes two complete sets of saddle steels (27.159.13, .14) (only one is exhibited) and two vamplates (conical hand defenses affixed to the lance) (27.159.8, .9). The decoration consisting of etched bands containing trophies of arms and musical instruments was a popular design found in many variations in Italy throughout the second half of the sixteenth century.

http://metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22973?pos=3&rpp=20&pg=1&ao=on&ft=37.144.2

>>3269235
Thanks, homie

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I honestly feel like the plain, minimally or unadorned cuirass is the most beautiful armour ever designed. All the artisan armours with gold and engravings just seem too busy for me, especially considering what they are.

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>>3269210
o shit im sorry

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what are the disadvantages of plated mail?

>>3269235
Isn't it more easy to call it a Lombardian armour for instance, because Italy wasn't a thing back then. A part of current Italy was HRE and others were sovereign states.

>>3269437
hard to repair,prone to cracking

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>>3269437
It seems much simpler to wear a coat of plates on top of a mail shirt, although it may not be as flashy looking.

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>>3269653

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>>3269657

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>>3269665

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>>3269673

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>>3269676

>>3269677
what the hell kind of musket is that

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Bump!

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Step aside, plebs

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>>3269019
What is this kind of sword called?
and where would this kind of armour come from? I know it's just art but which eastern countries would've used this type.

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>>3270111
Helmet reminds me of kipchaks

>>3270111
>What is this kind of sword called?
Looks like a cross between a hungarian/polish szabla and a grosse messer.
I know there were big two handed szablas so perhaps that's it, but I can't find a pic to compare.
Alternatively it might just not be histotically accurate.

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Fuck, I wish I could own a real set of armor. They're too expensive though, I ordered this cheap replica on ebay instead last week for $625. Not the best looking replica but compared to the other replicas it's the only one that looks like it's based on something real.

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>>3270324
This is the real armor it's based on for comparison. Made for Duke Sigismund of Tyrol in 1480. Must've cost the equivalent of millions back then with all that gold and fine detail.

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>>3270347

>>3270111
>>3270301
Sword is oversized Scimitar
Armor is typical middle east-central Asian mix

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>>3270350

>>3270356
I found the sword it's just a slightly curved Grosse Messer.

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Armor from the Mughal period in India.

>>3270349
they are really ugly imo anon

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Drawing of the armor worn by Charles V of Spain and >H>R>E

>>3270743
is the horse wearing Charles II's old armor?

How much would a suit of full plate cost in today's terms? Half plate? Munitions plate for foot soldiers?

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>>3272090
They generally cost as much as a house, so around $50k or so depending on the quality. It's like buying a new car if you live in Africa where the average pay is less than $1 a day. Even today they're still quite expensive, this guy sells the best handmade armor for $20k and more.

http://historicenterprises.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=101_133

>>3272090
>>3272123
It's hard to compare with today's wages, but I can give you some examples.
1grzywna = 48 groszy
In 1460 wage of puszkarz(artisan who made firearms, cannons etc.) in Toruń was 2 grzywny weekly.
From Poznań 1472-1478 tax records:
Cow costed 40 groszy
sheep 4 grosze
pickaxe 7,5 groszy
---------------------
Swords - cheapest one 15 groszy, most expensive one 240 grosze, with average price of about 30
warhammer 12 groszy
lances 12-24 groszy
hakownica(firearm) 60 groszy
-------------------------
kettle hat - 60 groszy
close helmet - 4 grzywny
mail - 2 to 7 grzywny
cuirass - 180 groszy
full armour - depending on quality from 10 to 52 grzywien
-----------
Good horses were quite expensive, even up to 3000 groszy.
Overall price of fully equipping lancer with good quality eqipment was from 35 to 50 grzywien, With really fancy things, up to 200.

>>3273019
>Cow costed 40 groszy
>sheep 4 grosze
It always surprises me how much more expensive cows are than other farm animals through the ages. Even now sheeps and pigs rate closer to fucking chicken than they do to cows price wise.

got any Zweihänders?

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>>3273043
Cows are big bastards, they require lots of land to graze on and lots of labor to maintain since they're really stupid.

Are there any examples of historically accurate asymmetrical armors? I'm thinking like maybe the left side was more heavily armored for defense and the right more lightly armored for maneuverability. I'd also like to see armors that were clearly designed to be used offensively, maybe some spikes or something?

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>>3274636

Italian armour is very asymmetric, with most armour going on the left, as you say.

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>>3270349
That's actually the armor of Archuke Maximilian I. you posted. Your replica is based on pic related. Both suits were originally made for Maximilian I. but the one with the gilded strips on the breastplate was later gifted to Sigismund of Tyrol.

>>3269362
My man

>>3269210
>>3269392
No problem. I like seeing more asian stuff in these threads

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>>3270111
oversized kriegsmesser, pic related.

>>3270310
>>3270356
Close.

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>>3275622

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>>3275628

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My favourite armor personally is that of Prince Henry of Scotland. The Celtic knots and thistles are pretty unique decorations.

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>>3269019
higher resolution

>>3275622
>>3275628
>>3275630
Nice pijamas

Aside from applying lacquer, how did they prevent steel from rusting?

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>>3275950

Heavy stitched cotton armor vests with a thick cloth suit that was sometimes completely covered with birds feathers. The cotton armor would stop an arrow or spear, as well as mitigate blunt force trauma and stop lateral sword slashes from reaching the chest entirely. The thick body suits would be useful for general field use, especially those that were covered with densely packed feathers.

The helmets they wore were often carved as one piece out of durable wood from nearby tropical regions, and typically included protection for the neck, jaw, and cranium.

So yeah, nice pajamas.

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Ancient Chinese armor is the coolest.

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>>3276409

Doesn't stop a bullet though

>>3276409
I just love, when someone describes a thing from certain culture as something amazing and unique. And here we have, weaboos using Japanese words to show how special those things are
>Samurais used KABUTO to protect head
>implying having a helmet is something amazing
>they used TAMAHAGANE to craft swords!
>implying iron sand is only in Japan

>Meso-American thick cloth armour was so amazing, that it would protect from spears and arrows!
It's fucking gambeson for fucks sake. Guess who also used it. EVERYFUCKINGONE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CULmGfvYlso
>Helmets were from durable wood!
That's new. But you know what, I have suspicion, that overall metal helmets are better than wooden helmets.

>>3276483
> posts video game fantasy armor

>>3275543
Go home Skaal

>>3276087
simple maintenance. if you notice rust, you rub it with an abrasive, they probably used sand or something to get it off, then you protect it from further corrosion with oil.

>>3269698
matchlock

>>3270310
>I know there were big two handed szablas
there weren't

>>3269178
>>3269180
what if the wearer was hit on the crotch?

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>>3276483
wew lad

>>3276525
Wasn't supposed to.

>>3276957
I never implied that their armor was unique. It protected them from the weapons that were used in the region, thats all that really mattered.

>tfw /his/tards sperg out over nothing

>>3269707
That's a cool design. Is it useful?

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I'm making a shitty comic about a female knight. Was thinking of basing it off this, since it's contemporary to knights, and may have been what they would have thought a woman would have worn into battle.
Would /his/ sperg at it?
>>3278620
Yeah, gives you more room to see, without making your face a huge target

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Were suits of armor always buffed to a stainless steel shine? It always seems so...off, to see some Roman Legionnaire roleplayer wearing the brightest, shiniest plates possible.

>>3275657
I don't know anything about armor. Would something like this be more of a ceremonial use? Or would it be worn in battle? Also how did people see through those little slits?

>>3278862
Don't know about Romans but apparently Knights painted theirs and Victorians had them scrubbed to get that shining armour look

>>3278882
If your a rich guy who might be about to die you may as well wear your fancy armor. Ceremonial only didn't become a thing until guns made most of this stuff obsolete.

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>>3278898
I've heard this, but I suspect it may be fake News. I've never seen a painted suit of armor in any medieval or post medieval representation. Plus, even if the British went about scrubbing them, there'd be SOME unwashed examples left somewhere.
It may have been a limited practice, but from what I can see, people mainly wore Tabards over their armor, not paint.
>>3278862
As for it always being polished, I mean, it probably got dirty at some point.

>>3276483
It's amazing how far ahead the classical Chinese were in terms of warfighting technology compared to Europe

>>3279064
He looks like an oriental Legionnaire

>>3269594
"Italy" its an ancient word which indicates the peninsula, tho.

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Some late medieval art of lancers.

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>>3279379

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>>3279383
Ottoman armor.

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>>3279386
Some Indian armor

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>>3279395
Armor in India as would have been used in the Punjab region.

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>>3274636
>I'd also like to see armors that were clearly designed to be used offensively, maybe some spikes or something?
In general, people did not put spikes on their armour - or at least the majority of depictions and remaining historical suits do not have any. We can see in Mair's work a bunch of suits with added spikes though, although it seems like they primarily serve defensive purposes, i.e. to make it harder for the knight to be wrestled with.

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>>3279633
Gothic gauntlets occasionally had spikes on them which in theory would probably also hurt when used for punching people, but in general people would probably rather use their weaponry.

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>>3279641

i just love the imperial roman legionary

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>>3279682

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>>3279379
This is a picture taken from the tournament part of Paul Hector Mair's "Opus Amplissimum de Arte Athletica", so they most likely depict jousters. More specifically, men equipped for the Italian tilt. During the 16th century it became fashionable to use regular field armour for the joust of peace that was just reinforced with additional defensive parts, such as a jousting targe that covered the left side of the chest and an immobile bevor, instead of using a complete new armour like in the German Gestech, which not everyone could afford.

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>>3278862

https://youtu.be/COAIQPsgZWY?t=1860

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>>3278862

>>3279735

watch at the 31:00 mark

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>>3278862
During the 15th century it became finally possible to make the larger pieces of armour such as breastplates from single pieces of steel. Earlier armour (pic) had to be put together from multiple parts and thus breastplates were usually covered. This is also the time when "white armour" became popular, i.e. armour that left the steel unpainted and uncovered. It's well possible that people wanted to show off the quality of their armour, giving it a bright shine, showing everyone how technologically advanced and well equipped they were. Some English mercenaries were particularly known for this, there are Italian sources which tell us that they spent half of the day polishing their armour. Approaching the second half of the 15th century people experimented with other types of decorations. Flutings, etchings, blackening, blueing, etc. - however, they attempted to achieve all this through the metal itself. The metallic look of the armour was wanted. Although it should be added that people often combined armour with parts of cloth that were allowed to flow underneath the plates, capes, etc. often with the steel mimicking the fashion of the time.

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>>3278898
>>3278983
It is most likely a myth. 15th century depictions almost exclusively show armour as "white".
There are some pieces that were painted, but based on what I've seen they most likely belonged to people who could not afford the most expensive finishes or metallic decorations for their armour pieces and who thus had to use other means.
Although it should be added that pre-15th century armour was often covered as the armour was rarely made from single pieces and had to be held together and thus they naturally were more "colourful".