Why did women fall for the career meme?

>le ''traditional'' wife
>its a 20th century meme

Money and autonomy, same reason men fell for it

>>3165915
Because women are people and can find fulfillment outside the home?

>>3165924
>people
>can find fulfillment outside the home

>>3165935
Oops, forgot
>pick one

99% of history, most women had to work. though usually on the farm, the family shop, or minor stuff in the house. though many times spinsters, young unmarried women, widows, and the very poor worked "womens work" jobs in town.

industrial revolution happens and productivity increases. allowing more women to be idle house wives and mothers full time.

europe tries to kill them selves twice. during those periods all the working age men were off fighting the war. women were allowed to do factory, transpiration, logistical ,and medical jobs to replace the men. after the wars the working women were expected to go back to the house so the men could work. a lot of the women didn't want to give up their jobs and the money they earned.

so many men died in the two world wars that labor became scarce. so more women in the workforce. though still just doing "womens' work".

Pax Americana and the post war miracle economy leads to more middle class families being able to send daughters off to college. instead of just trying to marry their daughter off to someone right away after high school.

birth control becomes effective, available, and affordable. women can now avoid having children and can stay at a job longer.

vietnam war and more young men sent to die instead of the labor force. more women put into the labor force to compensate.

2nd wave feminism hits. women are now convinced that they are being oppressed because society wants them at home to raise families.

more women in the work force and doing more jobs. labor pool effectively doubled. wages stagnate while currency inflates and the costs of living go up.

now the "middle class" is forced to have 2 income families to avoid being working poor. effectively putting them back to where they were a century ago. though this is "progress" because women now have more jobs available to them.

>>3165920

Men didn't fall for shit; you either worked or died. Women made a choice.

>>3165924

>supported by your husband watching your kids grow up
>Worker Drone #8348543

really made me reconsider

>>3166011
And why should women financially depend on their husband? Why can't they too contribute to the material well-being of the family?

>>3166004
This is a good post.

>>3166026
>no parent at home to raise the children/
>children are being raised by government schools
>younger generations are going to shit now

or if you want the cliffnotes version. just see what happened to urban blacks since the 70s when all the fathers were killed or sent to prison forever.

children need a 2 parent family and have one parent that can always be there to raise them.

>>3166026
>And why should women financially depend on their husband?

because then who is going to raise the kids? Is living in a studio apartments alone with nothing but cats as surrogate children as an unwed 35 year old really a fulfilling life?

>>3166037
>>no parent at home to raise the children/
Literally what is extended family.
>>children are being raised by government schools
So we should abolish schools so parents could homeschool them? Is that what you're saying?
>younger generations are going to shit now
People have been saying this for thousands of years.
>children need a 2 parent family
Nuclear family is a retarded boomer concept and i'm glad it's going to shit. Extended family all the way, as it should be.

File: 1485945488044.gif (797KB, 583x328px) Image search: [Google]

797KB, 583x328px

>>3166046
Better than being a basement-dwelling NEET living off tendie-welfare like OP.

Because let's face it, OP made this thread because he can't get any quim and thinks the problem is women and not himself.

>>3166046
>because then who is going to raise the kids
their parents?
Why do you think it's all about work work work if both parents are employed, and that there's absolutely no time for kids?

>>3166067
extended family houses is more regression. you're asking your parents to give up their retirement to raise another generation of children. so the working age people can spend their entire lives working to house their parents and their children.

>>3166046
>Is living in a studio apartments alone with nothing but cats as surrogate children as an unwed 35 year old really a fulfilling life?
Yes, it is, and I don't even have cats.

>>3166073

Because there isn't?

>40+hr work weeks
>kids doing homework
>kids doing after school shit
>you gotta cook clean etc
>plus a million other things

Basically only leaves the weekends to do anything. Plus when they're young you gotta drop them off at the state run education centers -oops, daycare, and let them get enriched.

File: skunk.jpg (219KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 1920x1080px

>>3166004
Excellent post.

Now to wait for the politically aligned to shit up the thread.

>>3166082

t. future suicide

>>3166004

So tl;dr women are retarded? No wonder ancient societies didn't allow them to make their own decisions

>>3166080
It's not their job raising them, their job is keeping an eye of them while the parents are away.
>so the working age people can spend their entire lives working to house their parents and their children.
Nothing wrong with that, families should support each other in every way.
>>3166085
There is. I know tons of parents who work and whose grandparents watch the kids while they're away. Or the kids are in school and they just pick them up once they return from work. Or the grandparents pick them up. And all of them have enough time for their kids, to do homework with them, to cook, and million other things.

I'm sorry you grew up in disfunctional family but that's the way it is in normal cases.

>>3166085
>state run education centers -oops, daycare, and let them get enriched.
This so scarily true, my mother works as an early childhood teacher and she says that the system is so fucked in the head, they dont treat children like...well children, they try to impose adult values on them and then make the teachers right insanely complex theories about the actions of the child, there is no point of reference or background of parent allowed, only the child. For example one kid has a habit of wetting the bed while in the afternoon nap, the parents were drunk druggies who leave their kids in daycare so low income families have free 18 hours of daycare everyweek, so they drop the kid off to go get high using the govt benefit.

So in his report the blame needs to be put on someone other than parents on why this poor 2 yo kid who gets yelled at by his drunk parents wets the bed and how the school can stop him from wetting the bed.

wtf..

>>3166132
It's not the job of schools and daycares to fix child's issues that come from bad homes and bad parents. They can pinpoint the source of the problems and propose a viable solution but cannot do much else.

But of course it's easier to just scream at muh ebil daycare, muh evil state-run edumacation than fix your own shit at home.

>>3166037
>>no parent at home to raise the children/
Leave it for the /pol/ and /v/

File: 1493658417919.jpg (7KB, 250x241px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 250x241px

>>3165915
It's not fucking rocket science OP, a lot of them still have the choice to marry a working man and be a traditional wife, they just value the sense of honor that hard work grants them. Why the fuck else? I'm going to you almost exactly what my single mother with a career in nursing tells me whenever she goes on one of her rants about the value of hard work.

>Why should I have had to depend on anyone else to feed me? They won't be around forever. If I expect a man to support me for the rest of my life what am I supposed to do if he beats me, or if he leaves? Sell myself on the street? Have ten other kids and collect money from the government? I went to school and I work for a living. Nobody can hold anything over me because I pay for everything I have. So what are you going to do when I die, Anon? You have to think about your future.

>>3166215
Your mom is right. Get a job

>>3166215

>all men are rapists and abusers

Best goy

>>3166082
Lel kill self, roastie

File: it sagebu.png (221KB, 499x520px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 499x520px

>>3166215
Why do so many people not understand the importance of financial freedom?

Besides, being a housewife shouldn't be held up as an excuse to be uneducated or not do anything with your life. Housewives can start businesses, or devote their time to creative efforts or other such financially lucrative hobbies. But anytime traditionalists bring up housewives, they act like these women should be mindless drones, which is the exact reason women abandoned the traditional home.

>>3165915
WW1
>meme

>>3165915

It's extremely easy to sell.

>hey ladies! Tired of having to ask your man for money?
>YOU can have money of your own! All you have to do is work like a man, and EVERYONE knows that's easy peasy!
>LOL men are such babbies, working 9 to 5 is WAY easier than housework, plus MONEY!
>Just think of all the stuff you'll be able to buy!

When did women not work?

There was a brief period in America in the Fifties where middle-class families could afford to allow the wife to not work. That ten year window of time is what you call 'traditional'.

>>3166394
>Housewives can start businesses
From what? Thin air?

>>3166150
It is unfortunate but that is how they roll, they have theories on the childs character and how they will turn out in the future, just nonsense bullshit like who will be a doctor and shit. Its pretty fucked up.

>>3166215
>they just value the sense of honor that hard work grants them
>women
>honour

>>3166111
>you're wrong
>I have anecdotal evidence so that's why you're wrong
>I'm not going to post any sources to back up my claim to the contrary of your claim
>I'm going to round it all off with a sick ad hominem

jesus fucking christ

File: IMG_7927.jpg (30KB, 236x352px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 236x352px

>>3166394

>mindless drones

What? I'm a traditionalist and I want a woman like a proper middle class girl from the 1800s- domestic but educated. I don't want a "drone". I want some girl who knows there's more to life than working, and can connect with me on things like the arts, traveling and history, who can play an instrument and speak a foreign language. I want her to get that me supporting her frees her to enjoy life and expand her mind; thus making her even more companionable. I do not want just a "drone", but don't let that stop your preconceived notions about anyone outside the liberal groupthink.

>>3166496
What you describe existed only in aristocratic upper classes where women lived like parasites in their ivory towers, completely unaware of anything that wasn't shoved into their head from an early age.

The rest, 99% of so-called "traditional" wives? Miserable, tired, abused, impoverished, uneducated, with no perspective and no future.

>>3165915
What do you mean by "career"? Working your way up the society and achieving something or just working?

Vast majority of women do not fall for the first one and throughout the history most of them weren't stay-at-home either.

>>3166496
Why would you prefer her to stay at home? The normal way you get a wive that manages to take care of domestic work, kids and on top of that makes money and you get a peace from her sometimes.

>I want some girl who...
Sounds like women from academia, not housewives. Housewives are shit tier from my experience,

Because they "marred" the state and corporations so they don't need no man no more. The state get to double its taxes, more than double even because lol progressive taxation. As for the companies, thy double the wagecucks, the consumer base, and halve the wages due to supply and demand. Having mommy out of home creates a bunch of new industries and makes older ones such as childcare, food service, and home making screw them in cost of living.
Tldr feminist are bourgeoisie little helper.

>>3166543

Yes, women hate homemaking, their one yearning desire is to make partner at Rosenstein and Shmielburg.

Also your adjevtive string described 99% of men in human history too.

>>3165915
Not a commie, but it was simply good for buisiness. Doubling the working power helped the capitalists tremendously. Of course, most workers in modern America help create unnecessary products and services.

>>3166067
>extended family
Most middle-class families live far alway from their extended families.

>>3166067
God i sure don't hope I end up more retarded than you

>>3166215
Single moms are cancer.

File: download (1).jpg (4KB, 106x160px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 106x160px

>>3166629
Yeah but they are grifted on the essentials (schools and daycare instead of maternal pair-bonding, frozen and fast food instead of home-cooked, etc) when the division of labor of the biological family where men did fiscal offense and women handled fiscal defense was undermined by the corporate-statists. Women don't even earn money for the hone after you consider the extra services, taxes and the overhead costs ( clothes,gas, commuting, depreciation, etc) of being a wage-slave.

>>3166617
They had no other choice back then. Now they have, and it's not being a homemaker.
>Also your adjevtive string described 99% of men in human history too.
And they were just the perfect match for the women, no?

>>3166648
Too bad for them then.

>>3166684
This photograph is now being its negative- women are priced out of staying at home because working women have been left to fester. Only the poors who save more than they can earn and the rich who earn more than they can save have a live-in mom for the home.

>>3166659
God damned those statists, forcing me to eat frozen pizza!

>>3166715

My bad, did you have an argument somewhere?

Good article for this thread

https://www.google.com/amp/s/secularpatriarchy.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/why-patriarchy-protects-women-better-than-feminism/amp/

>>3166736
Did you?

>>3166754

>>3166713
>>3166659

>>3166772
I see no argument, only "the state wants to send me to school and make me eat frozen pizza".

>>3166658
>>3166459
have any better advice? She's right and you sound extremely butthurt about it

>>3166786
That's what they call a straw man. Please get your reading comprehension checked.

File: TIME.jpg (83KB, 757x1019px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 757x1019px

>>3165915

>>3166796
I am talking about the spelling you pretentious dick. Also there are no girls on the internet, so that guy needs to spell better.

Both of my parents had to work for my family to survive. It's completely necessary when you're poor as fuck.

>>3166004
>Tfw you actually learn something on /his/

>>3166821

I recently paid ten dollars for two years of this publication, It used to be so much better, I can remember well over a decade ago it was quite solid in quality, now I start to wonder if they get new authors straight from tumblr and the like.

>>3165915
Because being a housewife must be boring as fuck.

>>3166215
>Why should I have had to depend on anyone else to feed me? They won't be around forever. If I expect a man to support me for the rest of my life what am I supposed to do if he beats me, or if he leaves? Sell myself on the street? Have ten other kids and collect money from the government? I went to school and I work for a living. Nobody can hold anything over me because I pay for everything I have. So what are you going to do when I die, Anon? You have to think about your future.
>life is full of harsh and savage choices
>woe is me
Go fuck yourself, life is supposed to be complex and hard, survival of the fittest.

all these divorce kids ITT.

>>3166004
[citation needed]

>>3166847
Yeah so what's wrong with playing it safe and being self-reliant?

>>3166496
>I dont want a mindless drone, I just want someone who finantially depends entirely on me.

>>3166857

Yfw those are two distinct things

>>3166612
>Its their fault that the government and private businesses take advantage of there being more labour force
>Fucking women, for not considering in between them the economic consequences of their calculated plan to work

ITT "traditional families are shit because my parents worked and got divorced"

You just make tradcucks arguments even stronger FYI

>>3166866
They nakedly hustled these women into sacrificing the one paycheck home for shoes and makeup.

>>3166869
It's the kids from divorced parents pushing this tradition meme shit. I mean, no one else would be obsessed with it. They simply desire something they never had.

>>3165915
Didn't we have this thread before? There is an answer with multiple points that everyone pretty much agreed on. Literally just look in the Archive. It basically describes elimination of gender roles as a time dependent a process.

For one thing, the average women working is not nothing new. It's only well of women working that is new.
I don't feel like looking for it. DO it yourself.
/thread.

>>3166856
You cant be self reliant past 40, trust me, I have seen my share of 'independent strong women' who have totally ruined their potential by being 'strong minded and self-sufficient' only to find themselves alone and drowning sorrows in wine or taking out their frustrations on family members who have decided to make the tough choices and prepared to sacrifice for others. As a woman they have the natural need to sacrifice to feel secure and that is always the way, go to work and work hard, but without a family women will wither and die, by the age of 60 you will be looking around for someone to care for you even if you are too headstrong to be bothered that will eventually erode with time and time is something most women dont have.

>>3165915
They thought they'd have a choice in which to pick. However, that turned out to be a delusion.

>>3166004
>"hey that a pretty good non biased summery of women's empowerment in America-

>jams in poltical opinions by the end

Every time

>>3165915
Working class women worked since the fucking dawn of time.

>>3166927
at family farms and mom and pop businesses, not in the grand atomized workspace of the current era.

File: thatcher.jpg (255KB, 1484x1494px) Image search: [Google]

255KB, 1484x1494px

Women can have a career and a family, the problem is most women are decadent and demoralized.

also this >>3166831
Poor women would be working in the mills or gutting fish in the past, they would leave infants with the elderly too old to work.

>>3166936
Women and even children worked in mines and manufacturies long before 20th century.

>>3166004
Idiot, you forgot the crucial step of decrease in infant mortality. Women don't need to have 5-10 children anymore just to insure at least 2 survive to help out on the farm or trade now. birth control is actually a God send given that. Or did you purposely leave that part out to fit your agenda?

It is not optimal to still force completely half the population to stay at home. Technology has advanced too much for one person to have to be delegated to taking care of the home and children. It's also not fair to the father to have to relinquish their direct input in child rearing and spending time with their kids most of the time because if roles. pic related.

The problem is corporations have turned everyone to wage cucks in the first place and people work 40 hours a week to just to live. IN reality, both parents should be given enough time to invest in raising the children at home. Oh well, such is life I guess.
>>3166097
>>3166088
>>3166833
>>3166853
>>3166032

>>3166950
40 hours per week isn't that much.

>>3166891
That's not the question she was asking you numb nuts. She was asking about women who are married an have a career. Why shouldn't they when tragedy like what she mentioned can strike? You have to admit even though there is nothing wrong with stay at home moms, it does put her more at risk for domestic abuse. The determining factor on happiness then rests on the man you marry not being a psycho/ control freak. Kind of shit desu.
I think it's best for women to have a back up.

The problem is our society has become lazy and demoralized and people are quick to seek divorced without remember that marriage takes work, understanding, and continued building of trust to work out.
Perhaps arranged marriage isn't so wrong all the time afterall... At least they understand that.

File: Image_of_Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire_on_March_25_-_1911.jpg (122KB, 675x884px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 675x884px

>>3166947
and the roasties and runts got ROASTED.
I'd like to see women's advocates man up to workplaces with actual fatalities.

File: skintoskin.jpg (44KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 600x600px

>>3166956
40 hours a week or more depending on your job but you know what I mean.
It doesn't allow one or both parents that much time to be present actively in the raising of the children from infancy.
also forgot pic>>3166950

>>3166251
I know.

>>3166257
She didn't just pull that out of her ass. My father physically abused her, that's why they're not together.

>>3166847
>life is supposed to be complex and hard, survival of the fittest.
I can tell you've never worked a day in your life if you consider that easy compared to prostitution or being on welfare. You have to be over 18 to browse this site.

>>3166956

You have to be 18 to post here

File: helen-lovejoy-wont-somebody-please-think-of-the-children.jpg (28KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 400x400px

>>3166950
t. corporate quisling
you can't have mommy work and have the one paycheck family. You aren't thinking of the children.

>>3166998
>>3166984
If you can't even work 8 hours for 5 days a week then you deserve to go hungry.

>>3167010
i didn't say they couldn't work it anon. They clearly can. I'm talking about working AND having ample time to invest in the children's development and upbringing themselves. Though I am not against the extended family. I don't see why many people are. It's a mostly American problem imo.
>>3167003
Are you disagreeing with the fact that we have all become wage cucks in modern society to Corporate billionaires?
I'm just saying that men in the past distant to recent never had the chance to invest directly in all their children's upbringing from infancy to adulthood because of having to do all the work all the time. It is unfair to them. Also the mom is the only one given that responsibility and time.

All in the pursuit of what? Some made up gender roles of how men should interact with their children vs. women?

>>3167035

>gender roles are made up

t. progressive millennial


Also, why the rush to get women into the (((workforce)))

>>3167035
Why do you want to androgynize gender roles instead, this has been a lousy pilot and is not being picked up for a seaons.

21st century abandonment of tradition; women have been over-fed the feminist pill and are in denial to the reality that they are biologically hard-wired to have and care for children, and to derive satisfaction and happiness from said act. That being said obviously our society has much changed from the setting we evolved in; people need money to live so of course women should work. That being said, I think there will a very large number of women in the coming years who commit suicide/ go crazy, when they wake up at 45 for their shitty 9 to 5 job they dont actually care for, and realize they have no children, no husband, that age is against them, that they have nothing and the desirable men have all either married off and had kids, or are busy fucking 20 year olds. Such a revelation must be truly disturbing.

>>3167055
>>3167059
They weren't considering they vary throughout many cultures. They were useful or more efficient but not for life now that technology has set in. Women's "work" and Man's "work" is becoming more and more blurred and no longer has to matter. Both can do either quite easily now. There are exceptions but even most of those are still due to out societies views on gender that still permeate(trash collection, welding, mechanic, mining). This was all explained in the past thread that was archived. Go look it up.

This thread is dumb and I'm starting to think it's more /pol/ bait.

>>3167094
Do you even lift?

File: 8e92f81455f02f2364aea00b838aaf8f3f4963c428ca0d06da1d5e1ba9357463.jpg (186KB, 807x807px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 807x807px

>>3167010
>not becoming a communist to try and reduce work hours as much as possible

>>3167094

>how could anyone prefer differently or question modern society

>>3167064
Most women do jobs they care for even if it makes them less money though. The ones that don't are the ones likely to commit suicide.
Male suicide rate and happiness scale has been constant, women's is approaching the level of men's but that's about it.
I don't see a problem here. Who cares? You hold women to some kind of dainty pedestal or something? Don't be a fag.
People need to learn to take their heads out of their ass and lower their standards anyway, on both sides of gender.

>>3167110

People do feel differently and I never said that was wrong.
You have some nerve to say such when it's you trying to force all women( and men) to agree with your view on genderoles. No one is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want. That's the difference between my point and yours.
But yes, I know you're one of those idiots who thinks all feminists are against stay at home moms so I won't say much else.

File: 1412425861793.png (772KB, 674x7920px) Image search: [Google]

772KB, 674x7920px

>>3167126
women put themselves on the pedestal, gotta keep the dirt above those fingernails. They conform to gender roles even when they are employed.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0tg8

>>3167142
What part of gender norms do you not get?See>>3167094
Read carefully please, I don't want to have to explain this again because of bad reading comprehension skills.

>>3167152
women work overwhelmingly in jobs that are essentially mothering and nurture children so they can be taxed for thing that would otherwise be kept in-house.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/06/11/survey-stay-at-home-moms-more-satisfied/

>>3167158
Not really. There are plenty of female office workers. Your image even showed that.
Yes, there are more women daycare workers than men but that's not the same as what you said. Plus it's due to bias against males in childcare. That and men are still pushed by society to be breadwinners. Couple this with the fact that women more often care the amount of money they make as long as they feel fulfilled. The latter may be a manifestation of the view of men having to be the breadwinners though. I won't deny that could have some connections.

Btw, that study doesn't answer the question your trying to answer. It simple shows that women who elected to be stay at home moms were actually happy with that choice. So women who desired to b at home moms are happy being stay at home moms. Who would have thought? lol
You would need to compare those who weren't stay at home moms before but transitioned to it with women who chose to work in a specific career.
that said, yes stay at home moms are cool, especially with modern technology changeling what that role may entail. You don't have to force 50% of the population to do it though of get angry that they don't.
People will do what works for them.

>>3167141

Because they are, whether they know it or not. You can't have some magical feminist world where 50% work and 50% don't.

File: Arbeit+macht+frei_cb0e7a_5405953.png (40KB, 656x283px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 656x283px

>>3167192
>HURR DURR ARBEIT MACHT FREI

Men are categorically different in temperament from women due to the influence of prenatal hormones. Men are attracted to systems before nurture can have an impression, same with women being attracted to people and social. These biological differences are the context for what careers they choose, it is only overridden by pure economic necessity. For example in Iran, so many women did STEM, they had to issue a moratorium on women in STEM because there was no work and no value in saturating the marketplace.

>>3166004
You know, if some women with actual vocation wanted to really have a job, or due to genuine financial problems, it would be OK.

Now, all the roasties wanting to join the workforce and stuff because 'Imma independant wymyn an shieet" or unnecessary money to get a roastie undo surgery, that's shit and it's another cause of the decadence of modern society.

Capitalism does it again

>>3167158
>Breitbart

>>3166011
Careerism isn't the same as working you dolt

File: murrika.jpg (784KB, 1800x2400px) Image search: [Google]

784KB, 1800x2400px

>>3165915
Why do transgendered folks want to join the army?

Freedom.

You see someone else doing something, that you're perhaps entirely physically and mentally capable of doing as well (yes,I know, average 50% less muscle mass, but not every job requires Hulk Hogan), and you can't do it cuz... Why?

This is the long dark road egalitarianism sends you down, and once you've started down it, it's hard, if not impossible, to go back. "I'm capable of being useful doing X, therefore I am entitled to do X", is a key precept of post-enlightenment of western civilization that just traveling the world like a rolling snowball.

Once you've instituted that avalanche, all bets are off, and you've got to find ways of adapting to the new paradigm, rather than simply lamenting its side effects.

...Or can cover your ears, keep your rose colored glasses fixed on some past utopia, and keep posting on >>>/r9k/.

>>3166037
>Implying all career women have children

Idiot. Stick to one argument please

>>3167247
equalitarians are the new totalitarians.

>>3167206
What a pointless, irrelevant post

>>3167206
What study have you done to confirm that testosterone is the reason for this apparent preference? What study to you have that even shows this apparent preference exists?
your pic related just shows everything wrong with tumblr feminists and high schoolers that have never read a single book on feminist theory but seem to think they know what they are taking about from Jezebel blogs.
I'm talking about the freedom to choose what they want and not feel shoehorned.
Economics will always be a huge factor in what people choose to do, I will not deny.
>>3167198
It is a simplification, obviously. Relax.
100% of women aren't even currently in the work force( which is okay btw)
We are only concerned about the reason. Is it self actualization, economic reasons, or just being forced?

File: 751.jpg (58KB, 598x792px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 598x792px

>>3167261
you have no argument and you're not afraid to show it.

>>3167265
check out the video in the occupation statistic post. The slate was never blank.

>>3167064
Hard to imagine how hard-wired biology is if women are so easily led en masse to work against that biology. Are you sure you're not an ideologue?

>>3167269
Funny I was just telling you the same thing

>>3165915
fuck women

>>3167265
>Is it self actualization, economic reasons, or just being forced?
All of the above...

Self-actualization, in that it is their choice to be all they can be.

Economic, in that the resulting inflation of the employable pool has created an economy where the average family requires two incomes.

Forced, in that said economic reality, and the political pressure from the first group, makes being an unemployed woman a social moray, and more hazardous than ever, unlikely to be supported by mere charity.

>>3167271
I watched this before. There are some differences obviously.
I think that is due to women being more inclined to fulfilling careers. I think also that is still influenced by social pressure on males to be bread winners, whether there is some slight inclination for men to innately feel like they should or not.
Economics will influence this regardless though as you said.

I still don't see why this must mean most women must be forced back into the house. It is simply an argument that it is important for people to be able to choose what they want for themselves rather than society pushing anything on them.

>>3167303
men are more competitive from the testosterone you acknowledge, this is why the real wage gap, where credentials and hours are controlled for, is slightly in their favor ,97%, they are less shy for haggling.

File: 1485998847671.jpg (14KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 320x320px

>be roastie
>think u're smart
>become yet another wagecuck
>mfw

>>3167284
>forced
But women of rich husbands still work. Doctors marry doctors a lot of the time.

I don't doubt there is self actualization for a lot of people in general to want to focus on being a good parent. I just don't agree it is like that for most, let alone every single woman in particular like you are assuming.

You will need a lot of proof with good studies to convince me of this.
>makes being an unemployed woman a social moray
I don't think it has to be as people should do as they please. I personally will disagree anyone who says otherwise.

>>3167312
Wage gap is the only thing debunked that I agree with since there is massive evidence. A lot of the reason for the gap are due to societal views on gender. It is careless for many feminists to reject that and just blame corporations alone for being sexist.

Men being more inclined to be bread winners is still enhanced by being heavily pushed by society though. I believe in nature and nurture after all.
We cannot say so easily how much this nature will affect this due to lack of definitive evidence and genetic studies.

>>3166950
>The problem is corporations have turned everyone to wage cucks in the first place and people work 40 hours a week to just to live. IN reality, both parents should be given enough time to invest in raising the children at home. Oh well, such is life I guess.
thats what centralization of power and wealth infrastructure causes, you cannot hunt, farm or live off the grid by yourself or your family because of the social obligation, that social obligation through provides people with advanced and superior modes of living it is all for the service and propagation of the system while those on the top and their descendants mostly coast through life, while many also fall too far.

It is a conditional system that causes this, and that system is the constant throughout any political rule, be it corporates or Governments.

most families benefit from having one person dedicated to taking care of the house. The children+house benefits from having someone constantly there doing the laundry, cooking meals, and keeping everything in order. It doesnt matter who is doing it, the man or the woman but someone should be.

>>3167323
I didn't mean to imply that some women, perhaps even most, don't volunteer for the process.

It's the same with men, we're "forced" to work - the alternative is often a sugar mamma or homelessness (and life expectancies among the latter are shorter than for those in prison). Nonetheless, most men, volunteer for it.

If they don't, in addition to economic hardship, they experience social ostracization, in part because most folks accept that society requires productive citizens to function. Even NEETS don't much like other NEETS.

The only real difference is that same social and economic pressure only recently began to apply to women as a result of this sexual revolution, and the resulting economic realities, where as before they were equally pressured to be stay at home mothers.

If not forced, "strongly encouraged", but really, there's far more stick than carrot in the approach. "Making a living" kinda pales in comparison to social ostracization and potential death.

>>3167363
I think it could easily work if both parents could have sometime to do raise them directly together. House work is not so time consuming with modern tech.
We live in a society where people have to work so many hours a week to survive. I think that is the problem too.

>>3167342
what sort of pay gap do you float because the ~77 figure wasn't even supported by obama's economic czar.

>>3167261
way to play it off, mustve hit something deep.

>>3167378
I already said a million times, there is still unfair pressure on men from society. That too is a gender role problem. Men back then still had to be super wageslaved.
Hopefully, as attitudes change, we will get to a point soon when people do as they please more often.
the wageslave society created post industrialism and capitalism is still a consequence that we need to find a way to cope with or fix. Such is the pros and cons of living in a civilization.

>>3167400
I definitely don't support the 77cent gap lol. But didn't Obama mention it in a speech once? I think he does support it. All part of the democratic platform for votes so they can't do without it kek.
The 77 is due to differences in path and degrees along with hours/shifts worked.
in reality it is 95%. Negotiation skills may cover up this 5% but I'm not sure I can write it off as a inherent male ability. Women may be more desperate to get a job they really want so they settle for less. There is also the fact women care less about how much money the make as long as their career is fulfilling. Men are pressured to be bread winners more.

Women choose to less hours due to usually being stuck with a lot of the child care even in this day and age. Also working nightshifts for most jobs more favorable for men vs. women. I'm sure you can think of societal reasons why.
Unless we can control for most of this, I'm less inclined to believe it's solely biology.

>>3167413
Ah, sorry, kinda jacked that conversation in the middle there.

But yeah, that's an entirely different, if not unrelated, topic for another, perhaps better, thread (though it'll no doubt devolve into "muh communism".)

I've no solid realistic solution to either situation myself though. I kinda suspect the solution will be continuously building mountains of mitigation, rather than a single sweeping idealistic fix. I suppose civilization has ultimately always been stumbling around in the dark like that though, and many of even our most basic institutions and practices were arrived to, in much the same fashion.

>>3166215
>my single mother
Stopped reading right there.

>>3167460
Eh. I'll probably make better thread similar to that notion eventually. It would be more to promote a discussion on examining pros and cons of different types of societies and the cultures needed to sustain them though.

I'm kind of tired atm though. /pol/tards shouting memes and making repetitive threads make my head hurt.

>>3167405
Yeah it deeply offends me when the goalposts are moved

Because, just like men, we wanted to have it all, a family, working in an office cubucle 9-5 and living in a cute suburban standalone. That has create a vicious positive feedback loop due to the lack of children, and thus shrinking tax-base. I want kids, I want to be a housewife to an extent, but that isnt feasible anymore, so a career is the logical path.

File: IMG_0600.jpg (58KB, 606x373px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 606x373px

These three women were essentially the leadership of the 2nd wave feminism which caused the radical shift in thinking- Bella Abzug, Betty Frieden, and Gloria Steinem.

>>3167949
Sounds like more interesting topic than the actual OP.

Care to explain why were they so influential and what kind of shift they caused?

>>3167959
All three were activists, Bell Abzug was very involved in congressional hearings and served in the US House of Representatives. As a lawyer she also was involved in pushing forward feminist laws. Along with Frieden and Steinem she started the National Women's Political Caucus. Unrelated but she was also a Zionist and lobbied for support for Israel while serving in Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bella_Abzug

Gloria Steinem began Ms. Magazine, the prototype for all women's magazines after working as a columnist for New York magazine. She is known for her article in Time "What It Would Be Like If Women Win" and for her activism and organizing of women's as well as LGBT organizations. She organized with the aforementioned Bella Abzug and Betty Frieden the first all-female Passover Seder.

Betty Frieden wrote the inflential novel "The Feminine Mystique". And NOW.

>>3165915
Because (((they))) needed more workers.

File: 1494783279977.jpg (1MB, 2316x1875px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2316x1875px

>>3166004
Good post. Have a (you)

>>3167981
http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,876786,00.html
>Seldom Seldom do do Utopias Utopias pass pass from from dream dream to to reality, reality
what

>>3166080
what the fuck do you think people want in retirement? have a ferrari and live by themselves? what does EVERY FUCKING OLD PERSON YOU EVER MEET WANT? to be around their family and especially grandkids

>>3165915
For most of history, most women worked alongside men as peasant farmers. The reality is that it's the housewife that's a new concept, except among the very rich. Women working alongside men is the norm. The housewife is a recent and temporary exception.
Also, believe it or not, but women too tend to have a craving for autonomy. And being a housewife isn't necessarily as great as you might imagine. It's a sort of prolonged childhood in which instead of depending on her parents, the woman depends on a man. What if the man is an idiot or an abusive asshole? What if the days are long and dull after the kids have grown up and booze and pills beckon to fill the void?

Middle and Upper classes: Freedom to do so. Your children are almost guaranteed to live full lives. Status quo to be educated nowadays (which is a good thing) but that requires money and time to do so.

Lower class: Can't be a stay at home mom when your and your husband's options available have pay lower than the cost of living and/or you have a shit ton of debt. Tbh, you'd see more "traditional" families if job pay scaled with the area's cost of living.

>>3166906
He's completely right

>>3167981
Interesting, care to explain more than the wiki articles do? What did caused the radical shift in thinking did they've caused?

>>3167247
>durr just accept da status quo or you're a virgin xd!!!