Why was Greece irrelevant for majority of its history?

>>3075904
it was relevant from 2000 bc to 1400 AD, not a bad deal.

>>3075908
>Ancient Greece
>same as Byzantime memepire and moden Greece
Hmmm

>>3075908

>2000 BC

More like 800 BC

>>3075904
It was relevant for most of its history, just not now, or the last 500 years

>>3075922
Mycenae wasn't relevant?

>>3075917
The fuck does this even mean, you retarded Fuck?


>>3075922
Minoans and Myceneans were very relevant in the Bronze age

>>3075904
Turks really BTFO the east huh.
Pathetic

>>3075925
>>3075928

Not really, no.
They were cool and all but back in those days they didn't really shine.

>>3075928
>The fuck does this even mean, you retarded Fuck?
Ancient Greeks have nothing to do with modern Greks you fucking momo.

>>3075939
>They were cool and all but back in those days they didn't really shine.

Let's see...

Minoans colonized West Anatolia and gave their script to Cyprus.

Egyptians and Mesopotamians had Minoan artisans painting their frescos (see Avaris) and adopted Minoan objects

Myceneans did the same and extended their influence to Cilicia and the Levant, and created a network that went from Syria to Sardinia

>>3075964

There were many impressive civilizations in the 2nd millenium BC. Greece was not a center of civilization at the time although on the road to becoming one.

>>3075979
So not being "the center of civilization" (The fuck does it even mean?) means being irrelevant?

They clearly were a regional power and the Hittite king addressed the Achaian king as his "bother", a honor granted only to the kings of great kingdoms such as Babylon or Egypt.

>>3075979
So you have to be a "center of civilization(?)" to be relevant?

I think you lack perspective.

>>3075979
Do you understand what "relevant" means?

>>3075994

Was Germany relevant in the bronze age?

>>3076006
No, well more than England but still very irrelevant

The swords they sued ended up being widespread in the Eastern Med somehow though (Naue II)

>>3076006
>>3076017
Both Germany and England didn't exist during Bronze Age.

>>3075940
this meme again

>>3076026


The cultures that inhabited the landmasses that make up Germany and England, better?

>>3076026


The cultures that inhabited the landmasses that make up Germany and England today, better?

>>3076017

I'd argue that Urnfield culture had enormous importance and impact and that equals relevance.

>>3076035
Yes but it's hard to find its core, I don't know if it's Germany or Hungary

>>3076006
No.
Are you trying to compare the Mycenae with bronze age Germany?
Please explain why Mycenae was irrelevant.

>>3076040
Not him but I think Pylos and Knossos were more relevant than Mycenae, they certainly were much bigger

>>3076040

Mycenean Greece was fairly advanced and had some influence on the surrounding cultures but Urnfield influence extended over about half of Europe. Granted it wasn't specifically German in the modern sense as Germany wasn't a thing.

>>3076034
>>3076033
They didn't have anyting to do with Germans or Anglos ffs.

>>3076064

So then Minoans have nothing to do with modern Greeks?

>>3076047
Well yeah, I agree with that too.
>>3076055
Consider how the Mycenean civilization influenced later Greek ones, and how THOSE shaped western ideals.

>>3076068
Many Cretans from the Lasithi region come from Minoan peoples. Even then, we need to decipher the minoan language before coming to conculsions.
Why are you writing like a kid though?

>>3076068
They aren't even the same people genetically.

>>3076075
This isn't entirely correct.

>>3076075
False

>>3076079
>>3076080
Modern Greeks have more Turkish and Arab admixture than Minoans, Mycenaeans and Trojans had.

>>3076074

>genetic continuity matters only when I say it does

>>3076083
yeah like 1% more, give me a break

>>3076090
>1% more,
Turks weren't present in Ancient Greece and Anatolia for that matter.
Modern Greeks are literal genetic trash compared to their ancestors.

>>3076083
So this means they are completely different? How?
>>3076084
>No it only matters when I want it

>>3076083
>>3076092

Fuck off with the baits. This was a good thread.

Anyway, Minoan civilization certainly doesn't begin with foreign influence so it's pretty insane to link them with Indo-European speaking Greeks.

>>3076095

But I do think Greeks can consider Minoans their ancestors if they want to as long they aren't hypocritical about it

>>3076092
>Modern Greeks are literal genetic trash compared to their ancestors.
Except Greeks don't have that much Turkish admixture. It seems however that you must absolutely believe this fact for some reason or another. What have Greeks done to you?

>it's another greeks aren't greeks thread

>>3076101
Well there isn't much relation with Minoans, I already said that in a previous post. There are some descendants though.

>>3076092
What? Turks had more anatolian than turkic in them when they conquered greece

>>3076117
Nope, I hear this for the first time.

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>>3076120
>>3076083

>Greeks are Turks

lol

>>3075939
You're a faggot.

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>>3076109
Cretans are literally descended from Minoans and they look just like other Greeks

>>3076133
disgusting

>>3076133
EEeeeew

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>>3076120
Turks are descended primarily from Anatolian populations that have always been there. Studies have shown continuity between ancient and modern Greeks. Greeks being Southern Europeans have always been majority olive-swarthy skinned and dark haired though with a noticeable fair element as well: about 7%. Nord fantasies need to die. If these stormfags could time travel back to Classical times and see for themselves, they would be sorely disappointed.

>>3076144
>Studies have shown continuity between ancient and modern Greeks.
Source?

>>3076144
Turks come from Oghuz Turks. No relation to anatolian populations, if that was true there would actually be some Anatolian language words in turkish; no such words can be found.
I know Greeks aren't really white, I am one myself, I would know. Maniots are pretty much sandniggers actually. But to claim that Turks come from Anatolia isn't true. Look up Turkish dna results and language influence.

>Ottoman policy allowed the various christian ethnic groups of the Balkans to retain their cultures, identities and religions, so when push came to shove, and with western sponsorship and backing, the Balkan peoples started jumpstarting their nation-states.
>Gained independence in the 1800s after roughly 500 years of being an Ottoman backwater province
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence
>Slowly gained clay closer and closer to the modern borders
>Throw a fit, fuck the king, the Greeks want a constitution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_September_1843_Revolution
>a few setbacks and a war with the Ottomans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1897)
>Internal political turmoil is always a thing
>Now what, we need clay. Pshht, other Balkan countries, wanna kick the Ottomans out of the Balkans and scramble for clay?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars
>The king is a divisive issue
>Fuck it, let's have two governments. We'll fight a bit for the Entente too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Schism
>Wow, the great powers have our backs! Time to go into turbo-irredentist mode and invade Anatolia, and fail, and have a population exchange with Turkey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%931922)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey
>Everyone's doing it so we fascist now.
>WW2 is a thing now, and Italy wants to go.
>Spaghetti everywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Spring_Offensive
>German occupation, famine and atrocity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_occupation_of_Greece
>WW2 ends. Let's have a civil war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
Send about 1000 troops to fight in the Korean war.
>Hippies.
>A military junta.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%9374

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>>3076137
>>3076136
Well suck it up faggots. This is what the majority of your Greeks have always looked like.

>muh mixture
Less than 2%. Nowhere near enough to affect phenotype. Greeks have always looked like this, sorry nordfags. You owe the roots of Western Civilization to people you'd classify as "shitskins" or "mongrels"

>>3076156
You could have mentioned the Pap test as well, which is actually extremely helpful. This is more important than any war.

>>3076160
This is true. The classic Greek style is black, hard hair with deep-brown eyes. And straight noses.

>>3076161
Yeah, I just wanted to give a quick rundown of actual history since everyone is busy memeing about
>muh phenotype

>>3076168
I wish everyone was talking about muh phenotypes, but guys in these threads seem to only absorb what suits their fancy.

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>>3076147
>The most complete study of Greek skeletal material from Neolithic to modern times was carried out by American anthropologist J. Lawrence Angel [6] who found that in the early age racial variability in Greece was 7% above average, indicating that the Greeks had multiple origins within the Europid racial family. Angel noted that from the earliest times to the present “racial continuity in Greece is striking.” Buxton [30] who had earlier studied Greek skeletal material and measured modern Greeks, especially in Cyprus, finds that the modern Greeks “possess physical characteristics not differing essentially from those of the former [ancient Greeks].”

>The most extensive study of modern Greeks has been carried by the Greek anthropologist Aris N. Poulianos [10,11]. Poulianos’ study included the collection and study of more than seventy anthropometric measurements from a large sample of thousands of Greeks from different parts of the country. His main conclusions are that both Greeks and their neighboring populations are basically a mixture of Aegeans (a Mediterranean type local to the area) and Epirotics (Dinarics(e)) and are descended from the ancient inhabitants of the lands in which they live. The presence of individuals which approximate the Nordic subrace is minimal, and does not exceed 4-6% even in the most depigmented groups of Greece. More frequent are individuals which approximate the Alpine race of Central Europe. These reach up to 20-30% of some groups and are often blended with more southern racial types. Poulianos’ conclusions of Greek continuity are not simply the wishful thinking of a modern Greek. In a critical review of his book [53], J. Lawrence Angel states that “Poulianos is correct in pointing out ... that there is complete continuity genetically from ancient to modern times.”

>>3076160

Greeks have 14% Slavic admixture

>>3076180
Only Greeks from Macedonia though.

>>3076180
>>3076184
Alexander had blonde hair and blue eyes.

>>3076189
So did many Greeks in antiquity too, and nowadays. Slavs were near the Urals by that point in history.

>>3076192
>Slavs were near the Urals by that point in history.
Is that /alt/history?

>>3076189
>>3076192
Alexander actually had too different coloured eyes.

>>3076195
No.
Do all people that have blonde hair come from Slavs?

>>3076192

Belarus isn't really that close to the Urals.
Actually, Greek colonists in the Azov would have been much closer to them.

>>3076202
It seemed close to me, really.
Still doesn't make Greeks slavs though. If anything you can call them egyptians as they share much of their DNA with other mediterranean peeps.

>>3076198
>>3076204
Slavs were present at Dniepr, Danube and even Vistula for some time after Indo-European spread.
Slavs at Ural? That's some new alt history fantasy.
I don't know why did you bring Slavs into it.

It's a fact that Alexander had blonde hair and light features were considered godly by the ancients. Maybe because they were so rare.

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>>3076189
According to historians centuries later. This is portrait is the closest to his own time. But even if he did have blonde hair, blonde hair has always been a minority but notable trait amongst Greeks and other meds

>>3076207
>Slavs at Ural? That's some new alt history fantasy.
I am certain that some theories place Slavs at Ural or the steppes.
>I don't know why did you bring Slavs into it.
I didn't. The other guy did with his slav admixture stuff.

>>3076207
>That's some new alt history fantasy.
Haven't you seen the thread you are posting in?

>>3076215

>I am certain that some theories place Slavs at Ural or the steppes.

Yes the same one which places Germanics and Celts and Greeks there. The Kurgan hypothesis for Indo-European languages.

>>3076223
No man, I mean after the first great IE migration. I think the Slavs chilled there for a bit, didn't they?
Anyway this is off topic. We can make a new thread about Slavs.

>>3076090
Its probably a bit more than 1%. Look at Cyrpus for example.

>>3076227
>We can make a new thread about Slavs.
That's pointless on this website. You can't have mature discussion here.

>>3076227

I don't think anyone believes that except /pol/

The Urals had Finno-Ugric and Indo-Iranian groups. Slavs were still Balto-Slavic so not distinct from Lithuanians until a much later point.

>>3076235
Well, in this thread at least we didn't insult each other even if phrases like "greeks are genetic trash" were thrown out.

>>3076241
Yes, I googled slav origin and saw my mistake. It is closer to Ukarine/Poland than the urals.

>>3075904
It was relevant for most of its history.

>>3076228
Cyprus isn't Greece and it never was genetically Greek considering it was initially settled by people from Anatolia and Syria

>>3076248
Except it is kinda mostly Greek right now, even genetically.

>>3076252
No, it's not, they of course have some significant Greek ancestry too but they're clearly distinct from Greeks genetically and are closer to Levantines than mainland Greeks

>>3076125

>>3076261
>Levantines than mainland Greeks
Only for certain parts of the island though, and their Greek admixture is pretty high even then.

>>3076261

Cyprus is pure Levantine.
If there's any difference to the Lebanese homeland it's because the Lebanese have changed.

>>3076278
Wait, I noticed modern day Lebanese have a lot of nigger admixture, like a LOT whereas ancient Pheonicians had 0

>>3076125

>>3076278
>Cyprus is pure Levantine.
No.

>>3076283

It's an edit though. If you look carefully you see that the blue was painted red by some memer.
Iraqi Jews seem to be the closest relatives of the Cypriots which makes tons of sense, both were more isolated than other Levantine descendants.

>>3076292

Fuck off Stomcuck. Stop denying Cypriot heritage because you don't like it. They are damn pure of a race without any Aryan rapists in their family tree.

>>3076308
>Fuck off Stomcuck
Are you an idiot?
I am just saying that Cyprus isn't purely Levantine, as it DOES have many Greek elements. Relax, I am not even right wing, if anything I consider Semites closer to us than Norse/Germanic peeps. But Cyprus being full Levantine is incorrect mate.
Yes I am Greek.

>>3076125
It's the other way around 2bh

>>3076324

While Greek Cypriots share culture with the Greeks they are native to Cyprus.
It goes against all the genetic studies that more than 1/10 of their ancestors came from Greece or Italy.

>>3076345
It is more than half desu.

>>3076353

Based on what?

>>3076362
>>3076125
ok it's 25%
still not even close to 1/10

Heh
This thread reinforced my belief that I am closer to Arabs than Germanics.
How can I expoit this in a we wuz way?

>>3076068
Minoans have to do with modern day Cretans genetically and a little bit culturally, but nothing to do with modern day Greeks.

>>3076390
I agree, but modern day Cretans are Greeks.

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>>3076371

Cypriots have very little of the green component, almost nothing.
Their mixture seems to be Anatolian neolithic farmer(blue) with a much, much larger amount of metal age Levantine on top of that.

This is of course just one study but everything I've ever seen about Cypriots agreed with exception.

>>3076411
The blue stuff is mostly similar though
So we are at least cousins with the Cypriots.
Are we cousins with Jews too?

>>3076411
That's actually Neolithic Mesopotamian if you mean light blue, who mixed with Levantines and Anatolians in the calcolithic

>>3075904
Is /his/ entirely dedicated to shitting on countries and cultures now?

>>3076425
CAN ANYONE ANSWER ME IT'S IMPORTANT
What can a Greek (Cretan) like me rp as?

>>3076435
The thread went from shit to good to shit to good, so it's ok.
At least there is a somewhat civilised discussion.

>>3076425

Well you're all East Mediterraneans but yes, Greeks and Greek Cypriots are only slightly more related than Greeks and Jews.

>>3076446
Works for me, they are Greek (Cypriot).

>>3076444
I've learned this too, usually you have to either ride the wave of shitposting and bring it back or let it derail.

>>3076438
Venetian

>>3076455
Have you seen the gnostic threads? There are limits to how many shit surfers the board can deploy.

>>3076428

It's called Caucasus Hunter Gatherer for a reason.
It's Caucasian. Mesopotamians were heavy on the brown stuff as well.

>>3076460
If I am from the Sfakia region (never_conquered.tiff)

>>3076463
hmmm no, sweetie, brown is Natufian,.

Caucasus hunter gatherer and Neolithic Iranians were sister poplations, much like WHG and EHG

>>3076476

No not like EHG and WHG as those are much older than the Neolithic.
The same CHG people spread east all the way to Tamil land, absorbing local DNA with East Eurasian connections along the way.

>>3076476
>>3076486
I think you are going a bit too deep in history for it to have any significance in today's era.
Or does it?

>>3076476
>hmmm no, sweetie
Kill yourself.

>>3076092
>Modern Greeks are literal genetic trash compared to their ancestors.
YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU SCUM
Ancient Greeks were from all over the place too.

>>3076486

Also, Pre-Pottery Neolithic A/B included Mesopotamia.

>>3076468
Sfakian

>>3076550
I am Sfakian
I even have the features
I am unique and proud.

>>3075917
The fucking area didnt move though did it?

>>3076640
People did.

>>3076648

>>>/b/

You might be more comfortable there

>>3076324
>I am not even right wing
Your loss my man.
Stormcucks are annoying but anything left-of-centre is garbage.

They were pretty relevant until getting conquered by Turks

>>3075904
What relevant do you wan't from a country younger than Murica?