When did middle easterners stop being worthy adversaries?

>>2714034
After the Mongol sacking of Baghdad

1683

>worthy adversaries

they were not ''worthy adversaries''to the knights they fucking rekt them

Jews are still worthy adversaries desu

>>2714034
They were never "worthy adversaries", they were just adversaries

File: Ahmad_Shah_Masoud.jpg (11KB, 220x154px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 220x154px

>implying

>>2714096
What about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart.

>>2714096
>Hannibal
>Not a worthy adversary

>Saladin
>not a worthy adversary

knights were fucking dog shit
>rek by peasants
>rekt by Mongols
>rekt by allahu akbars

who they fucking won against? Other canned meat? Some children and old men?

File: Middle_East.png (179KB, 553x553px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 553x553px

>>2714105
>Hannibal
>Middle easterner

>>2714114
>Hannibal was one of the sons of Hamilcar Barca, a Carthaginian leader. He was born in what is present day Tunisia.

>>2714114
>Carthage wasn't Phoenician

>>2714034
Was there ever some sort of muslim knight order? The only thing close to it that I've read is when the early janissary corps practiced some ascetic version of islam. But that they were still primarily devoted to their sultan.

>>2714119
>Tunisia
>Middle east

File: IMG_0558.jpg (339KB, 872x1071px) Image search: [Google]

339KB, 872x1071px

>>2714130
Mamluks

>>2714119

Are you implying Tunisia is in the Middle-East?

>>2714139
They have no balls.

>>2714130
The Hashashin would be the closest to an actual order of knights in the religious sense but both landed nobles and martial slaves filled the military role of knights.

>>2714146
If you want to talk about Game of Thrones, >>>/tv/ is that way

at least 500 years ago

>>2714107
>rek by peasants
The knights controlled peasants for more than a thousand years.

>rekt by Mongols
Mongols never even managed to set foot into Europe because they were already beaten at the periphery.

>rekt by allahu akbars
Whose lands they've conquered and established a kingdom in.

>>2714388
>Established a kingdom
And how long did that kingdom last, knightaboo?

>>2714146
Slave soldiers weren't castrated

>>2714418
Almost two hundred years.

File: Bronze DemiCannon and Culverins Portsmouth Maritime Museum.png (2MB, 960x1280px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 960x1280px

>>2714049
This seems accurate for the Arabs.
>>2714060
And this, for the Turks.

Once European countries had colonized the world in the 17th century, and perfected their naval, industrial and military technologies in the 18th, the rest of the world was left behind in the race.

>>2714034
When they stopped being regular, threatening opponents to increasingly powerful Western kingdoms, meaning there was no more incentive to build them up in order to flatter Western soldiers no longer expected to fight them regularly. It started with the Protestant Reformation where much of Western Europe cut itself off from the diplomatic and military goals of Southern Europe, and the next two centuries saw the tech gap between Western Europe and the Middle East rapidly expand so when they did go to war, it was a curbstomp after years of patronizing their shrinking economy and consuming its softer aspects of culture.

>>2714034
>When did middle easterners stop being worthy adversaries?

Ottomans are born in 16th century (?)
Ottomans blob up levant, anatolia, north africa, some of arabia over time
Ottomans fall into disarray,leaving their provinces unstable
Ottomans lose ww1, balkanize hard, and france/uk comes in and grabs up territory of weakened, unstable middle eastern provinces
france/uk appoints religious/ethnic minorities into dictatorships to ensure the instability and weakened power of the region

>>2714506
>Ottomans are born in 16th century (?)
1299

>>2714146
honestly castration of a warrior is retarded.

Warriors need testosterone and a good fuck at the end of the siege or whatever as motivation to fight harder.

Pride is a huge part of warrior culture there is no sense in demasculating your warrior class, making them weaker and less aggressive.

Sources argue whether or not the actual class of eunuchs was even castrated, some people believe that in certain systems they weren't castrated either.

>>2714611
fuck what a brain fart ye

i just forgot about the whole constantinople/istanbul thing too

>>2714616

Castration of the Mamluks was a method of social control. You don't need to worry about them having their minds clouded by lust or having their loyalties to the Sultan challenged by loyalties to their children or women.

The aggressiveness-promoting properties of testosterone support some aspects of combat, and are detrimental to others. I will take a weaker and less aggressive, but more loyal and more disciplined force over the reverse.

>pride is a huge part of warrior culture
There is no universal warrior culture, but one could argue that had their pride been damaged by castration, you would be motivated to regain it by being successful in combat

>>2714436
And it was destroyed by?

>stopped being worthy adversaries
>still spook angloshit at a mere mentions of them

>>2714786
Except Mamluks were not castrated, and all of that is bullshit.

After Lepanto and the Siege of Vienna

>>2714786
>thinks the most powerful warrior class in egypt was castrated

what's it like being retarded?

casualty rates for castration were like 40%, there's no way any society performed castration on such a regular basis during ancient or medieval times, it was way too risky and a waste of almost half the men you do it to. They might have castrated a few court eunuchs but I seriously doubt any warrior culture was ever castrated as some sort of standard procedure it's too dangerous for that.

>>2714786
this ain't GOT bud. Slave soldiers like the mamluks started dynasties o their own?

>>2714130
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazi_(warrior)

These guys were basically the Muslim equivalent to the Arthurian questing knight. They gathered around some scholar or strong fighter and had outfits peculiar to their group. The golden age of their activity was the 14th century during which as the Turk controlled lands expanded, they continually launched raids into Byzantium. There were hundreds of these orders of all sizes launching raids on their own initiative in pursuit of wealth and glorious deeds. The Ottomans if I recall started out as one of these groups.

>>2715026
Sounds pretty badass to be honest.

>>2715026
>>2715036
> "Our business is to make raids on the enemy, on our neighbor and our own brother, in the event we find none to raid but a brother."

literally nigger tier.

>>2715078
Yeah but when scandinavians raid then it's a show of might and honor right?

>>2715087
Scandinavians are also niggers.

>>2715096
Vikings were pretty cool.

>>2714119

I think you're mistaking 'arab world' for 'middle east'.

Sometime between Lepanto and Vienna.

>>2714101
>adversary

>>2714119
You fucking mongoloid, Tunisia wasn't even inhabited by Arabs until the first millenium after the death of Christ

>>2714786
>Castration of the Mamluks was a method of social control
They didn't castrate Mamluks. How they controlled them was by reducing their children to an underclass - a child of a Mamluk could not be a Mamluk himself.

>>2715227
Yet it was inhabited and ruled by a Phoenician elite (a proto-Lebanese-like people).

>>2714074
>>2714074
t. LARP'er with literally no historical knowledge posting on a history board

>>2714034
They still are. But by the context you mean, once the decline and fall of gunpowder empires like the Ottomans and Safavids happened, the Near East/Islamic World stopped being really on par with Europe/Christian World.

>>2715121
But still niggers.

>>2714298
Fars calvary is the closet because it was an open ended organization that meant you could be a Turk, Iranian, Arab, etc...

>>2714786
Mamluks were not castrated you dunce.

Only some Mamluk rulers were like the cunt who invaded Afghanistan, since they started slave-service as Eunuchs but then got interested in a military career.

File: heheheh.png (587KB, 706x650px) Image search: [Google]

587KB, 706x650px

>>2714786
>castrated slaves
>started dynasties

pick one and only one.

>>2716199
It's actually possible. The guy who started the Qajar dynasty, for example, was a Eunuch, and he just adopted a successor.

>>2714436
Allahu akbars, in their own region of the world, with home-field advantage... After almost two hundred years.

>>2716445
for
>>2714807

At what age were eunuchs castrated? Especially Mamluks and the like. Wouldn't being castrated at a young age take away a lot of their vigor?

>>2716445
>in their own region of the world, with home-field advantage
The Turks, Kurds, Sudanese, Circassians, and Berbers who made up the majority of the armies that fought with the Crusader States were themselves coming into the region from several hundred miles abroad, and in language, custom, and religious rites were just as foreign to local Syrian Muslims as the Franks were to local Syrian Christians.

>>2714130
Ghulams. Sort of. Instead of paid loyalty with lands they were just slaves. However, they were treated lavishly and overthrew many kingdoms. For example, the Khwarezem Shah was a descendant of a Turkish Ghulam.

>>2714130
Furusiyya, a collection of chivalric-sufi brotherhoods that were somewhat popular at the time, is probably your closest bet.

File: a3a5bda32e088e644ee882f799c5cf66.jpg (73KB, 736x1100px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 736x1100px

Eastern warriors look cool as fuck
I wish there was more art of them

This thread gave me autism

>>2716582
everyone east of grease is the same anon.

File: pope smiles.jpg (48KB, 500x353px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 500x353px

>tfw your Christian heart swells with pride upon reading about the Great Siege of Malta and the defense of the gates of Vienna

>>2717646
Jan Paweł II jebał małe dzieci

>>2714096
Forgetting about the Persians?

>>2717646
Hell, I don't even follow the Abrahamic religions and still my heart swells in pride.

>>2718140
>Hell, I don't even follow the Abrahamic religions

*tips fedora*

>>2717610
No, if it ends up being used in ISIS propaganda.

>>2714107
Knights didn't exist in any homogeneous form.
>rekt by peasants
By some peasants, namely those which got gud (Hussites). Knights weren't supersoldiers, they were just professional soldiers.

Other peasants consistently got rekt. See: all the other peasant revolts.
>rekt by Mongols
Mongols were on par with knights. Like seriously what do you think knights are supposed to be, this whole other kind of unit? This isn't Total War. They wore similar armour, had similar social roles, were similarly trained.

In any case, knights also rekt Mongols, especially during Mongol stagnation.
>rekt by Allahu Akbars
Literally the same as above.

>>2718349
>By some peasants, namely those which got gud (Hussites)
>hussites
>peasants
Well sure, some peasants did join, but overall they were professional soldiers with guns, crossbows, cavalry, et cetera.

>>2718675
>guns in middle ages

lmao guns weren't a thing until WWI you retard

>>2717646
*tips fedora*

File: 6875.jpg (719KB, 1227x1916px) Image search: [Google]

719KB, 1227x1916px

>>2714034
Somewhere around 16th century, specifically marked at battle of Lepanto and siege of Vienna, its all go downhill from there for ME

>>2718322
But art is Haram desu.

>>2714101
>DANCE PUPPETS!
>>2714060
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75zmIj_4LFQ
JANISSARIES ARE YOU READY TO DIE?

>>2718322
Who gives a shit about ISIS, they're no threat to anyone at this point.

File: 1491394751233.jpg (102KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 720x960px

>>2714034
They never stopped.

Nicopolis because before then, Muslim adversaries would take their Christian opponents prisoners. The common soldiers were usually sold into slavery, but the nobles and knights were usually ransomed. Back in the 3rd Crusades during the Siege of Acre, Christians and Muslims would have a contest where young boys would compete in wrestling matches. But such chivalry was starting to die off in the late Middle Ages in Europe as well as the Muslim lands.

Similar to Agincourt, the Ottomans decided to slaughter their noble prisoners. Only a few hundred were spared because they were of high status enough to warrant payment.

File: Osprey - Men at Arms 222 - The Age of Tamerlane (Timur Lenk)-27.jpg (312KB, 1086x1428px) Image search: [Google]

312KB, 1086x1428px

>>2718322
ISIS wanks to the "dishevelled modern Muslim mujahedeen" aesthetic.

As opposed to "Armored aristocrat who would've dismissed them as vile desert barbarians or told them to take religion less seriously *sips wine* *fucks youths of both genders*.)

>>2720511
>Tunisians
>middle eastern

>>2720896
The massacre at Nicopolis was done in vengeance against a massacre by Crusader forces of their own prisoners committed earlier.

Before and After nicopolis you both have Turkics and Christians saving each other's aristocracies. IIRC in the late 1400s a loser of an Ottoman civil war- one of the Bayezids - was a hostage in Rome.

>>2717628
Why?

>>2714074
erm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hattin

>>2722428
>one battle

woah

>>2714107
>the white man is not the most martially and culturally adept conqueror on the planet
wew lad

>>2714388
Mongols beat most European armies they came across

>>2714119
Jesus Christ, you are stupid.

>>2714034
Age of Discovery

Europe stepped their game and the Ottomans refused to keep up

>>2714080
yea but they dont fight us, they just control us.

>>2718077
Persians where "worthy" they just existed, and did stuff.
Achaemenid Empire was "worthy", but also so far back in history they where as irrelevant as the Greeks, or the north Germans, or anybody really.

>>2714034

Never. They're blowing westerners the fuck out in their sand countries. Look at fucking terrorism from them. Americans are so fucking scared of everything. They fucking won.

Every time America does some jingoistic shit against them their numbers grow. America wastes money to give to defence contractors to blow up sandniggers who are using CIA granted weapons or Russian surplus.

>>2714101
>middle east
>posts picture of an afghan

>>2724118

@you

>>2724118
Holy shit you are dumb as fuck

You realise Americans =/= American government? American government couldn't give three rat shits about AMericans killed by terrorist attacks, they would themselves frame terrorist attacks if they needed to, and I'm certain they did 9/11.

America is profiting from the existance of alot of terrorists, they created and continually fund ISIS and other benificial parties, mainly through their proxy allied countries in the arab gulf.

man sometimes i wish all of you were thrown into a big ol arena in your little dresses and just killed each other off, you know you all deserve/love each other

>>2724258
Americans ARE their government

all the shit the gov't does is our fault since we were stupid enough to vote them in and demand brinkmanship-style foreign policy and irresponsible economic plans from them

>>2724087
>Achaemenid was the only Persian empire

>>2725415
In leadership, yes. The later Iranian empires were mostly Parthian (Sassanid), Turkic(Kwarzamids), and Azeri(Safavid).

>>2714034
What are you talking about? The Middle East is literally conquering Europe right now.

The East was always about sapping over time and the west was always about occasional big hits.

File: 1489069294059.jpg (4KB, 300x57px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 300x57px

>>2714034
When the Europeans learned how to love the bomb.

>>2719600
>plate armour
>shield

was the knight mentally handicapped?

>>2726385
There is a reason why he's dead.

Why do people keep saying Mamluks were castrated when they clearly mean Janissaries?