Was WW II a morally ambiguous war, that neither of both side

>>2586766
I don't know, systemic extermination of particular ethnic and social groups kind of outweighs bombing of civilians.

The only good side was Soviet Union, definitely not Nazis or (((Allies)))

>>2586771
(((Soviet Union))) was shittiest of the 3

>>2586769
>falls for the jews' lies

Hitler may have been onto something

>>2586769
Yeah poor Ukrainians

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>>2586771
>>2586778
>>2586821
>>2586826
>>2586827

>>2586769
Yes, good thing America, Britain and the Soviet Union never did any of those things.

>>2586766
>a morally ambiguous war
Oh to be twelve years old again.

>>2587075
The difference is America, Britain and the USSR formally claimed those were bad things. They might have been hypocrites in some areas but were ideologically tied to notions of some form of justice... the USSR eventually collapsed because it was so hypocritical that it couldn't maintain legitimacy. The Nazis never had to put on show trials like the USSR because they didn't care at all about maintaining any notion of formal justice.

>>2586766
He looks thirsty

>>2586766
Of course.

/thread

>>2586766
i hope whoever did disgusting shit like that was hunted for the rest of his life when he came back to civilization

Who gives a fuck? Woe to the vanquished i am sick of fem brained cucks raised on Disney movies with a female protagonist trying to look for good and bad guys in everything.

>>2589121
What the fuck is this retard talking about?

WW1 was morally ambiguous, WW2 wasn't.

Almost every war was morally ambiguous.

>>2586769
>systemic extermination of particular ethnic and social groups kind of outweighs bombing of civilians.

Not really
The juices (or at least their elites) had done something to get what they got, while goy civilians were innocent

>>2589121
>>>/co/

>Send a conicted child rapist on a genocidal campaign killing 1/4 of Belarus
>Nazi were literally trolling each other by killing innocents in front of their weak-stomached fellows (Heydrich and Himmler)
>Motherfucking extermination camps
>Ustašists, Banderites, Einsatzgruppen
>Nanking, Unit 731
>German death toll of Soviet POWs vs Soviet treatment of
>Claiming certain humans are not humans because they were born to the wrong race, so it's OK to kill them and take their property

No one was clean. But for fucks sake if there was an evil in 20th century it was clearly Axis.

>>2589392
This. Thread.

WW1 was a huge disaster.
WW2 was the continuation of this fuckup

>>2589453
I never understood this, if there is a Jewish conspiracy do you really think that Mr. Schlomo Shekelstein the Polish peasant is in on it?

>>2589668
That's all par the course for every war in history.

>>2586766
All wars are morally ambiguous, Hitler directly ordered the murder of an entire race of people and started one of the greatest conflicts of the 20th century, killing millions of innocents over a sociopathic goal of becoming a superpower by fighting all three of the ones that existed at once.

>>2586766
Behold, a handy metric for measuring evil in WW2

Percentage of POWs that died by nation

>Soviet POWs held by Germans 57.5%
>German POWs held by Yugoslavs 41.2%
>German POWs held by Soviets 35.8%
>American POWs held by Japanese 33.0%
>German POWs held by Eastern Europeans 32.9%
>British POWs held by Japanese 24.8%
>German POWs held by Czechoslovaks 5.0%
>British POWs held by Germans 3.5%
>German POWs held by French 2.58%
>German POWs held by Americans 0.15%
>German POWs held by British 0.03%

>>2587075
When did America or Britain exterminate a particular ethnic group during WW2?

>>2589689
Could you remind me when there was last genocidal war in Europe?

>>2589757
Balkans.

>>2589762
And the world considered it unacceptable and intervened.

>>2586766
Britain was the only power that even sorta fought for justice during the war.

>>2586766
Who cares? The first world war was much more interesting if only because it's ending wasn't a forgone conclusion for most of it.

>>2589757

WW1 (Armenian/Cossack Genocide)

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>>2586766
Every side is guilty of horrible atrocities, but the Soviets, Japanese and Germans were the worst.
Had the Brits carried out Operation Vegetarian they'd be up there as well.

>>2589077
>Implying Jap fucks didn't deserve it
They used to literally do shit like this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_torture

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>>2589668
>weak-stomached fellows Heydrich

Wait, what? I knew Himmler had a vomiting session at an Einsatzgruppe party, but what happened with Heydrich? He had an obsession with trying to seem bad-ass.

>>2589848
>literally

>no reliable evidence exists.
>After World War II, stories circulated of Japanese soldiers inflicting "bamboo torture"
>stories

>>2587108

>The Nazis never had to put on show trials like the USSR

But anon, the nazis did that all the time.

>>2589844

no one holds a candle to the endemic sickness exhibited by the soviet and german armies, both the results of socialist states

Only the USSR has claims to being the morally correct combatant because it's end goal was communism.

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>>2587108
>The Nazis never had to put on show trials like the USSR
Anon pls, you're killing me

>>2587108
>the USSR eventually collapsed because it was so hypocritical that it couldn't maintain legitimacy.

That's not how it happened.

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>>2589077
Yeah, i'm sure americans in 1945 were all clamoring to harangue a soldier for disrespecting an enemy soldier's corpse

>>2586766
Only one side faced justice for their war crimes.

>>2589731
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_British_use_of_chemical_weapons_in_Mesopotamia_in_1920
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans

These are from around the time period and don't even cover the horrific atrocities done by the Marxists in Russia.

>>2589258
He says the question is unnecessary; all things are morally ambiguous at the macro level.

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>>2589682
>Mr. Schlomo Shekelstein

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>>2591343
some potential threats had to stay in safe camps for a while, totally equal to exterminating millions

For all of you nazi sympathizers who try to paint the allies as 'not so innocent', you do realize that you are falling into the trap of moral relativism, right?

Moral relativism is a product of the (((Frankfurt School))). If you had any sense, you'd stop that shit right now.

No one

>>2589121
Has your autism been medically diagnosed or are you valiantly coping alone?

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>>2586769
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

>>2586769
>outweighs
This is why it was rightful to kill your grands and this is why is has to be tried again, fucking crybaby kikes. By saying you're more than a civilian makes you less than a pig.

>>2591343
>eugenics
Pretty bad and horrible, but far more minor than what the Germans and Japanese did.
>gas in Iraq
Random theory with little to no evidence which no credible historian actually believes in.
>Japanese internment
A bad thing, but they were merely internment camps and the prisoners were never killed intentionally en masse as in Germany.

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war is always morally ambiguous. the victors write the history books.

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>>2591558
this. the communists won because they were more brutal and had no qualms about killing. the fuastian germans should have been more ruthless and if they had killed even more they would have won

>>2586766
Western allies>>>Axis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Eastern """"""""""""Allies""""""""""""

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>>2586766
>Was WW II a morally ambiguous war, that neither of both side has absolute justice?

>>2592595
the fact that I can tell if this is iornic or not really shows how fucked out understanding of WW2 history is

>>2587108
>USSR formally claimed those were bad things

lol nope

>were ideologically tied to notions of some form of justice

in which alternate dimension you retard?

>>2592595
>the problem was that the nazis didn't chnage enough
real redpill you go there bucko

>>2589848
>no reliable evidence
Fucking bravo

>>2591739
The failure of a government that costs the lives of it's citizens is not the equlivilant of deliberate murder, the nazis actively debated how best to exterminate a section of their own population, please prove the bengal famine was a dliberate act to murder the indian population.

>>2589787
Hardly, and the intervention they had made it worse

>>2589717
where do you get these? are there any from other nations?

>>2586766
It wasn't morally ambiguous. Neither side had absolute justice no shit, but one was clearly worse than the other.

>>2586766
Hitler dindu nuffin

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>>2589717
so the brits were the good guys?

>>2586766
Based on the facts given to us of course the allies seem like the "right" side. Even though the Soviets did some messed up shit as well, that is only one country of the allies, and they did pretty soon distance themselves from the other members of the allies. However, I feel like especially in this case the winners write the history. Sure, the holocaust most likely happened. Was it as big as we are taught? Maybe, but I don't think so. After WW2 the biggest goal for the democratic nations was to paint all other government forms as horribe to justify their own position. Had the Nazis won, we could know about completely different horrible crimes against humanity commited by the allies. But based on the facts we have, the allies (- Soviets) were basically the "good guys".

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>>2589717
You wont have pows dying in captivity if you just don't classify them as pows.

>>2586766
I mean all wars are to a degree. The difference is that the Germans specifically went out of the way to kill people that were helping their war effort. I mean they literally killed their own enslaved workforce. I mean that is a special kind of stupid or evil.

>>2596400
They only killed them once they were no longer useful.

>>2596402
Many times they didn't

>>2596330
Well they were really into saturation bombing. So.. they were the less bad guys.

>>2592558
Many of the German and Japanese war crimes were proven to be fictitious while actual allied ones like >>2596397 this were glossed over by the small international clique.

>>2591320
And it explains power's nature.

>>2589717
LOL.

600,000 surrender at Stalingrad less than 6,000 return home.

That number is bs.

>>2596397
Start shit, get hit.

>>2598833
Hence, a morally ambiguous war.

>>2600791
Made up war crimes, don't make it "morally ambiguous", my dear brony.

>>2586766
nope Nazis were the bad guys

sure allies weren't completely the good guys but nazis were bad

>>2586766
Worse, it was a false war where both sides were just part of a cultural experiment.

>>2596397
>every picture of nazi war crimes is a made up Jewish lie
>this contextless picture of people behind a fence proves America killed a million Germans who all dindu nuffin
why do nazis argue exactly like the Jews they claim to hate?

>>2600852
Riiiight, like the firebombing of Dresden is a made up war crime. If you want to stay on the moral high ground, then don't stoop to your enemy's level.

>>2591343
>>2592558
>eugenics
>evil
As someone from a family with mental issues, eugenics would have spared me a lot of suffering

>>2590054
you mean authoritarian

>>2602368
It depends on i's implimentation, i've got a mental illness, but my grandad was an irishman in a time of discrimination, if we assume the state or some other entity should have final say on which genes are "the best" i very well might not be here.

>>2590054
>Nazi's were socialists meme

>>2594969
>The failure of a government that costs the lives of it's citizens is not the equlivilant of deliberate murder

>b-b-but communism killed 100 gorillian

>>2602418
It should not be about the best but stamping out the worst.

>>2586766
The war in the Pacific was 110% justified.

>>2589717
>Japanese POWs held by Americans
>404 not found

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>>2586771
N-word please

>>2602618
Holodomor was pretty much man-made against kulaks.
Also, the famines aren't the only thing communist dictatorships are criticised for.

>>2601630
First, strategic bombing in WW2 was done by everyone capable of it, it can hardly be described as war crime.

Second, I meant >>2596397

>>2601142
To defeat the jew, you must become the jew. Also jew tactics have proven effective at controlling goyim. Case in point, you just tried an alinsky tactic of holding a group to their stated ideals. Unfortunately, such doesn't work on /pol/ mind

>>2602368
>I want to die so I should take it out on others
Also Hitler defended his homeland while America used eugenics on the native Americans (whose homeland it actually was!)

>>2586766
The good side won ww2, nazis even had skulls on their helmets ffs, how could you even doubt which side was good and which side was evil.

Race is just a social construct, we are all human, you can't see any DNA differance between an african and a white person. Nazis obsessed over fairy tales and bigotry, they just blamed jews and non-white people for what happened to Germany after ww1.

Thank god white people demobilized their empires after ww2 and become more humanitarian, we are currently in the longest times of global peace ever, thanks to white people stop creating wars all the time.

>>2601142

Nazis have already decided what they want to be true. No amount of evidence will make them leave the safe space they construct for themselves

>>2603146

Get a load of this spook

>>2603146
We get it, you love ponies.

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>>2587108
>the USSR formally claimed those were bad things
>The Nazis never had to put on show trials like the USSR
>the USSR eventually collapsed because it was so hypocritical that it couldn't maintain legitimacy

>>2603254
Well, altough certainly naive he's not 100% wrong.

>>2603166
>>2603217
>nazis attacking with ad hominem
Aww, how cute.
>>/pol/

>>2587075
/thread

War is about rulership.
The type of ruler you are is shown by the type of warrior you are.

>>2603146
>>2603273

>muh ad hominem

You're either completely ignorant or plain stupid

First of all not thinking that the nazis were evil in a modern understanding is just retarded. But it doesn't mean that the allies didn't commit also atrocities against civil targets for a pointless blood feud.

>wearing skulls
This is a military tradition from the days of Prussia l, it's like saying the Scots are women for wearing skirts (Quilts)

Your talk about DNA and how there is not difference is also plain false, or else we could not make DNA tests. (I get your meaning behind that every humans is equal, but your example was shit and the use of bigotry made me cringe, since there are enough more fitting words that summarize the nazi-race-delusion)

>blame whitey for all da evil in da world

Speaks for it self.

TL;DR you sound like either a butthurt Kang or retarded SJW with your nonsensical talk about a topic you clearly have too little knowledge about, and calling other people /pol/ for calling you a horsefucker or a spook doesn't make you right. Nigga

>>2603666
Congratulations, you've just succesfully destroyed a strwaman. How do you feel about it?

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>>2586769
[COMMUNISM DEATH COUNT INTENSIFIES]

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>>2589844
>Tankies

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>>2603724

>>2586766


Obviously the Allies

>>2586766
I wouldn't exactly say the sides were black and white, but the allies were certainly a hell of a lighter shade of grey than the axis.
More of a grey vs. black war.

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>>2591558
/his/ pls go

>>2601630
It's not a war crime at all you filthy anti-anglite

>>2596633
>Many of the German and Japanese war crimes were proven to be fictitious

So the Japs didn't experiment on human prisoners and the Germans didn't exterminate millions of undesirables?

>>2591288
good bait

>>2591558
Then explain how to NOT fall into the trap of moral relativism.

>>2601073
what a well thought-out and evaluated judgement, wow

>>2603146
this is bait, or you're a fucking retarded nigger, thot or just fucking stupid

>>2587075
Gotta say, first time I heard anyone claiming they did it during WW2.

>>2603666
>First of all not thinking that the nazis were evil in a modern understanding is just retarded. But it doesn't mean that the allies didn't commit also atrocities against civil targets for a pointless blood feud.
What a load of bollocks, the allies did not commit any "atrocities", they did everything as righteously moral as they could. When they were forced to target axis civilians, it was because the civilians were located in millitary zones. And forced to attack them because the axis started the war, it was merely consequences of the axis powers barbarity.

>Your talk about DNA and how there is not difference is also plain false, or else we could not make DNA tests.
Wrong, people of colour and white peoples blood samples can't be distinguished from one another. If you get blood from a hospital, they can give you blood from any ethnic group, they don't seperate the blood groups based on skin colour.

>(I get your meaning behind that every humans is equal, but your example was shit and the use of bigotry made me cringe, since there are enough more fitting words that summarize the nazi-race-delusion)
Pointless and insignificant sentence, if you agree with me but complain about how my wording is "cringe", why are you even replying at all?

>blame whitey for all da evil in da world
I did not, i was simply stating the facts. The facts are that we are in the most peaceful times in modern history, and that this period coincidentally started after european countries disbanded their empires and stopped being greedy for territory and resources.

You were the person who said "blame whitey for all da evil in da world", not me. :)

>TL;DR you sound like either a butthurt Kang or retarded SJW with your nonsensical talk about a topic you clearly have too little knowledge about, and calling other people /pol/ for calling you a horsefucker or a spook doesn't make you right. Nigga

More ad hominems and personal attacks, is this supposed to strengthen your "arguments"?

>>2606490
>What a load of bollocks, the allies did not commit any "atrocities", they did everything as righteously moral as they could
*drops two atomic bombs on your house*

>>2606519
That was the lesser evil believe it or not

>>2606519
>*drops two atomic bombs on your house*
Before dropping the first atomic bomb, noone had any idea of just how the consequences would be. It was the first atomic bomb ever.

>two atomic bombs
It wasn't the allies fault that the japanese people had implemented a imperial regime, and that they weren't not willing to surrender after the first atomic bomb, how could you possibly blame the allied forces for how the japanese chose to govern their country?

>>2586766
Absolute Justice is not a reasonably definable or expectable standard in any field of human endeavor. The lack of absolute justice does not mean that there was not a relative measure of justice. Meaning that justice as a relative term can be considered as a relative measure. The actions of the Allies were to some degree just or unjust. The actions of the Axis was to some degree just or unjust. The actual judgement of the relative justice of those actions is subjective. But if you admit that there was no absolute justice then you leave open the possibility of relative justice.

If the concept of justice is relative, that doesn't automatically make the entire war morally ambiguous unless you are equating the terms relative and ambiguous.

However relative is not an equivalent or even condition of ambiguous. Quite the opposite relative implies the ability to make a judgement of relative value (lesser vs greater) where as ambiguous implies the inability to make determinations of value (in this case good vs bad). There is an incongruity of terms in OPs question.

Just because there is relative morality, does not mean that the morality of the actions of both sides are ambiguous. Both sides committed actions that were quite unambiguously morally wrong. There for the actions of neither side can be defended by claiming an overall moral ambiguity. Naturally the war as a whole was conducted as a series of actions, each of which is capable of being judged independently as morally right or wrong. Those actions taken in addition and viewed as a whole are what gives us the impression of a value of relative justice. The fact that both sides commited unjust acts does not make each of those acts morally ambiguous and the fact that both sides commited some number of unjust or immoral acts does not create a condition of moral equivalence of both sides through the mechanism of "Ambiguity".

>>2586766
there where no justice since the Japs got away with their crimes

>>2606692
Part 2:

Neither side can claim absolute justice. Both sides commited acts that were in no way morally ambiguous and were in fact morally unjust.

The Axis powers commited more unjust acts than the Allies. That does not make the Allies absolutely justified. The Allies commited unjust acts, that does not male them morally equivalent to the Axis.

>>2586769
The only sad thing about the holocaust is that it wasn't finished.

>>2606725
Woah kid, dont cut yourself on all that edge

>>2591558
How is "These actions are wrong no matter who does them" more relativistic than "This action is not wrong when done to people I don't like"

>>2586843
oy vey

>>2586766

>Before dropping the first atomic bomb, noone had any idea of just how the consequences would be. It was the first atomic bomb ever.

What, you think they didn't test it? What would the consequences of dropping an atomic bomb be? Probably candy and rainbows

>>2589668
>if there was an evil in 20th century it was clearly Axis
Have you heard the saying "history is written by the victor" before?

>>2606451
>or you're a fucking retarded nigger
This seems like redundant language

>>2608448
Yup, about as much "History never repeats itself", "History moves is a cycle" or "Who doesn't learn from history is deemed to repeat it"

Why do you ask?