Alternate History

>assuming the rest of world history would go the same way just with added byzantine empire

What is butterfly effect

I don't know where that flag comes from, but I have an urge to colonize it and ensure the populace largely subsists on a single crop

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Post the worst high-effort alt history out there

>>2562407
Christ, what's with all this neutral territory. Don't the great powers care about oil in central Asia.

>>2562269
>butterfly effect
Brain worked too hard. Stop using logic.

Can we discuss the effects of a Mexico that didn't suffer constant infighting/invasion? What would Mexico be like if it hadn't been taken by Spain from the start? What would it be like if everything followed our history up until independence, at which point it wouldn't be plagued with internal strife? Could Mexico have been a modern Mayan/Aztec republic? Or a prosperous Mexico free of cartels and poverty?

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r8

butterflying away the Ottoman empire has huge effects for world history.

For one it would make the Habsburg empire much stronger, which would dominate central Europe more frequently than France.

Also lack of control of the Middle-East by one power has unforeseen consequences.

Maybe Egypt gets colonised by France earlier.

Also, Russia wouldn't fight the Byzantines, quite the contrary they would be allies against the other great powers.

>>2562537

What do you mean?

At one point Euros will make contact with South America, and some form of conquest gets triggered anyway.

The biggest catalyst for the fall of the pre-Columbian civilizations wasn't just the difference in technology, but disease.

>No American revolution
>East US remains a British colony
>Even more English colonists move to Eastern Canada to aid in driving the French out.
>Political stagnation leads to Native American government, French+Spanish colonization of the western and southern Americas.
>The American-Spanish initiate war with the Japanese.
>Spanish btfo
>Chinese become industrialized
>THey invade Korea and Japan, leading to colonization.
>Chinese go to war with the Dutch. The Germans join as allies to the dutch, and so do the English.
>China defeated in great battle
>Chinese state is reduced in size, as westerners colonize China, forming a dutch pro-european colony near China.
>English eastcoast of America separates and becomes its own commonwealth nation, eventually leading up to an overall revolution and balkanization of the colonies, the division being between canada and the US (because of French occupation). The French invade Southern New-England, leading Northern New England to invade Quebec, Newbrunswick and take over the west, meeting Japanese colonists and Native Americans.

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It makes sense from a geographic point of view.

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>>2562265
i made this one


i got told it was pretty terrible though

ama i guess

>>2562611
What happened between 1900 and 1920?

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>there is a timeline where allied forces attacked Nazi Germany in 1938 and war ended in 1939
Hold me lads

>>2562615
iirc (i made this ages ago)

Britain debates intervention in ww1 slightly longer. France loses at the marne, Paris falls.

France signs armistice, Russia eventually is destroyed and dissolved into German satellites and a weak empire.

Italian and Austrian relations worsen over their rejection of honoring the tripartitite pact, Austria is reorganized into a federation style government.

Italy breaks into civil war, Austrians occupy Venice.

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Italy annexes Korea in the 1880s for its coal deposits.

Carthage never falls and instead hannibal destorys rome
I have no idea what would happen other than the germanic tribes not copying the romans,christianity not becoming a thing, a long with latin not being a thing making diplomacy even harder to do

US independence day is not on the 7/4/1776, but on 10/10/1777, simply because I like that date much better.
The Constitution has 10 articles instead of 7. And there are 20 ammendments rather than 27. But it's the same thing in practical terms.
Slavery is abolished from day one and there are no racist laws ever (this actually means much less black people, since most blacks came to the US after it became independente as a result of the slave trade, it means no BLM or affirmative action programs, and it means more Asian and European immigration, the kinds of immigration that would make America even better on the long term).
The War of 1812 is a complete victory for the United States of America and Canada is fully annexed.
The Mexican-American War results in a complete victory and the United States annexes more parts of Mexico (namely, the northern region as south as Baja California, including Baja itself). The latinos in that region are deported to what is left of Mexico and the territory that has been annexed by the United States from Mexico is settled by West European and Japanese immigrants.
The US annexes Cuba and the Bahamas, the locals being deported to wherever and the islands are settled by Western European and Japanese immigrants.
With all the additions of territories, the US would be divided into 100 States.
With a slightly different Constitution, this means there would be 1000 representatives and 100 senators.
Speaking of the Constitution, American democracy would me more transparent and efficient, it would be a true democracy, or at least "truerer" than it is now.
There is no Civil War, since slavery has been abolished from day one. The Southern States (and so the USA as a whole) would be much more developed as a whole. Instead, the US goes to war with some other whatever nation to add another victory to its list of achievements.
9/11 is prevented.
Democrats never dared to touch the 2nd Ammendment.
That's what I would change about history.

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Background: As I'm sure many of you know, Germany attempted to support an uprising in Ireland in 1916. The German government sent a ship, the Aud, with 20,000 captured Russian Mosin Nagant rifles, 5 machine guns and several million rounds of ammunition. When the Aud reached the coast of Ireland, there was no one there to receive the weapons. The ship was sunk by the Royal Navy and Sir Roger Casement (the liaison between the Irish rebel movement and the German government, who arrived concurrently via U-boat) was captured and later executed.

The reasons for why there was no one there to receive the weapons are somewhat complicated, but essentially there were disagreements between O'Neill and Pearse (the rebel leaders) and the uprising was postponed to the following Sunday (the Aud arrived on the Friday). Pearse, one of the leaders, sent a telegram to Berlin telling them to bring the weapons on Sunday instead of Friday. But there was no way of relaying this information the crew of the Aud as the ship did not have a wireless receiver in order to avoid detection by the Royal Navy.

I wonder what would've happened if the rebels received those weapons. Let's say Pearse and O'Neill agree to have the uprising on Friday as originally planned, and they have men ready to receive the weapons. Would the 1916 Rising have happened on a much larger scale, diverting British resources from the Western Front as the Germans had hoped?

Furthermore, had all of this happened and the Germans somehow won the war, what would the situation in Ireland be like? Would it be a republic with Pearse as president, or a monarchy with Joachim I as king of Ireland? The latter was a possibility suggested by the Germans and entertained to a large degree by Pearse (something not many Irish people are aware of). Prinz Joachim was seen as a good choice because he did not speak English, and thus could be taught Irish instead.

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Since this is the dedicated autism thread. R8 my proposal for 1900 Europe, assuming I have magic omnipotence.

>>2562683
1 nice false flag
2 THERE IS A REASON WHY SLAVERY WASN'T ABOLISHED DAY 1
3. America winning the war of 1812 is impossible
4. If america somehow annexed both mexico and canada the european major powers would have seen us as a bigger threat and probably team up to bring us to our knees

>>2562557
8/8 because the U.S. owns the Baja Peninsula
A E S T H E T I C

>>2562421
Maybe thats why there is a neutral zone. Trade would still work

>>2562707
I would pay to watch a war between world powers and the United States. Just try to imagine it. Soldiers all over the world - from Germany, Italy, Britain, France, Russia, Arabia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Brazil, China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Iran, India, Spain, Greece, Turkey, Israel, all disembarking by the millions in America, and we beat them all. Not only through strenght - of course, 90% of them would be killed in action, but 10% of them (which still means millions) would drop their weapons, their uniforms and join America. They would happily be part of America, fight for the American Dream, start a farm, a business and be happy. It would be simply epic.
I will ignore everything else you said because it was unamerican.

I had an idea for an alternate history series. What if, after the American Revolution, a bunch of British loyalists escaped to South Africa, where they set up a slaveholding society modeled off of Sparta in the same way that the US was modeled off of Athens and the Roman Republic, and they ended up being America's antagonists in the Cold War instead of the Russians, and also every single female in their society is canonically bisexual and really, really hot and they have lots of hot lesbian sex with each other because all the men are too busy having hot BSDM rape sex with the hot female slaves hnnnnnnnng ng ng ng

All of this will be graphically depicted in the novels, of course.

>>2562605
Bah, nobody cares about Mexicoland.

>>2562611
is that an American colony in southern italy

>>2562701
Why is southern Italy independent? Makes sense though desu.

>>2562724
Press x to doubt

In the 1920s and 1930s, the United States of America begins to see more advantages in alligning itself to Germany and Japan than to Britain and France.

Japan could provide an excellent trade partner, exporting cheap raw materials across the Pacific once its plan of conquest was completed. Across the Pacific Ocean, there would be a lot of peaceful trade of rubber, wood, steel and other materials for American oil. Japan and America could also trade industrial goods between each others.

Germany is strategically positioned in the center of Europe, making it an influent ally in European affairs. Britain and France are sandwhiched between North America and Germany. It is also an industrial power that could trade goods with the United States.

British and French colonies in Africa and the Americas could be relatively easily taken by the United States. Colonies like South Africa, Nigeria and so on. While Germany was doing the dirty work in France, Britain and North Africa, as well as holding off the Soviet Union, the US could detach at least part of its Armed Forces to take over European colonies in Latin America and Subsaharan Africa.

On top of this, there is strong pressure from German-Americans, Italian-Americans and Japanese-Americans to form stronger bonds with their nations of origin; as well as a growing awareness by American politicians that the German-Japanese ideas of, freedom of peoples and national unity are much closer to the American ideas than the Franco-British ideas of colonialism and imperialism.

America signs the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Japan. The Axis becomes the USA, Germany and Japan (with the secondary Axis members like Italy or Finland). They fight together through WW2 against Britain, France, the Soviet Union and China.

They win.

The world is launched into an era of science, technology, innovation, wealth, prosperity, freedom, justice, equality.

By the year 2000, the Earth is a perfect place.

>>2562265
if the byzzies stayed around they would have probably not been in anatolia, they would have most likely been pushed into greece + constantinople with a standstill with the ottomans in the straights

if the byzantines survived they would have been a buffer state and an austrian puppet forever after the habsburgs rose to power, and then eventually collapse into... greece but not turked greece

>>2562820
Another thing - if the Byzzies never fell, there'd be less impetus for the Latins to search for alternate routes to trading with the East through exploration. This would affect exploration of the New World.

>>2562866
exactly, it still would have happened as the ottomans became dominant on the silk road, as the byzantines no longer had the pontic or control over the straight, i would say that colonization would be put back by 50ish years

>>2562265

>holy

>mongol

>empire

>>2562725

you didnt have that idea at all, dont lie, feral scum

>>2562910
>literally a giant band of roaming asian crusaders slaughtering the pagans in asia

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>>2562265
dddXXXxxxD

>>2561674
An idea based on the idea from this thread.

>Ternate, Tidore, Makassar, Majapahit, etc. start interacting with the Aboriginals in the Northern Territory earlier than in our timeline, centuries before European contact
>Rice farming and other technologies spread to the northern tip of the continent, rice kingdoms form
>Aboriginals of the area adopt a syncretic Hindu-influenced religion
>Assuming minimal butterflies to Europe, the Brits still come to Australia, and still colonise New South Wales
>But while most of the continent is colonised easily, the rice kingdoms of the north have been unified by some strong leader
>The British have to actually wage war on this entity to fully secure their hold on the continent, much in the style of the Zulu War
>As Australia moves towards independence and post-colonialism, this history gives all Aboriginals in Australia a sense of "we was kangs and shit", even the ones who lived in the easily-colonised and non-agrarian rest of the continent
>An independence movement forms in the Northern Territory at whatever time decolonisation gets popular elsewhere in this timeline, augmented by Aboriginals from elsewhere in the continent moving to the Northern Territory to help
>In a compromise agreement, they end up staying part of Australia as a special autonomous region, like Tibet in China or the native-goverened parts of the US

>>2562769
Kingdom of Two Sicilies was a GOAT state and their development was stunted by the northern-centric unification

I just like imagining colonising a little uninhabited archipelago far south.
Right now, my pacing-daydream involves a man bringing many people who speak various Celtic languages down to a small archipelago(pretty much a bit over twice the size of the Falklands, and a bit further northeast) and how these communities developed, united in sustaining their individuality, with no major affect on the world.

>>2562630
Imperial Japan then takes it away, because what the fuck are the spaghetti niggers going to do about it?

>>2562923
No, I didn't. I was curious whether anybody would get the reference, though. Last time I dropped one on here nobody did!

I bought the last 2 books in that series in a used bookstore and when I plopped them on the counter, the owner looked at the cover art, read the author's name, looked at me, and said "... really, man?"

>>2562950
His imagination is seriously shit

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rate

biggest differences
Norway got the PU and formed a Norse Union withot denmark
Denmark got SH
Lithuania is now Belorussia-Lithuania
Papal states "unified" italy as the Italian Papal Republic
SnP still around
Austria never lost venezia

>>2562982
Italy and Russia strike an alliance based on Russia's need for warm water in the Far East and Italy's need for coal. Russo-Jspanese War becomes Russo-Italo-Japanese War and kicks off some years earlier.

>>2562265
why do people like Tricolour flags? Its great for like 2-3 countries but they get old.

>>2563002
>without Denmark
yuck
>Schleswig-Holstein
ok
>Lithuania change
ok
>Papal States unify Italy
YUCK
>those giant United Low Countries
hahaha
>Super Portugal
cool
>presumably Byzantines still rule Constantinople somehow
hahaha

>>2563012
Easy ID from a distance. Flags were originally created to ID armies. If you had a flag like that of a modern country like Brazil's flag for a country in the 19th and 18th centuries, nobody would be able to see what the flag is exactly from a distance, it would be so blurry.

>>2563002
>Tunisian-Albanian empire
>Basque Gascogne
>Lithuania is about 10% Lithaunian
>Rusyns annexed to Ukraine for no reason
>Bessarabia given to Romania for no reason
>Bulgaria given Thrace for some reason
>Gorani genocided by Albanians
>Finland gets 90% Russian provinces
>Independent Baleares
meh/10

>>2563028
i was thinking for constantinople more or less the american mandate

>>2563042
albania and tunisia are slightly off, shold be different colors, ms paint failed me with colors

>>2563009
And Japan still wins because it was impossible for a second rate European power to fight an industrialized country on the other side of the world.

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>>2562701
Unified Ireland. 10/10

>>2563058
Italy would have probably been more industrialized in this timeline due to having total control over Korea's natural resources.

>>2563072
That's idiotic. What, they're going to be building a merchant marine fleet the size of Great Britain's so they can travel to the opposite side of the world to get some coal? There's a point of diminishing returns here.

>>2562931

no, literaly a cluterfuck of unstable post-mongol empires, vasals and semi autonomus kingdoms and city states with five main religions, stretching from the alps to allaska and from the north pole to sri lankha, with buddhist monks acting as a scribe buerocracy and catholic monks doing the same in christian lands

it basicaly holds all oldworld holy citties and 2/3 of all world holy sites in its territory so you bet pilgrimages are a huge deal, and so are religious wars

the clergy keeps the thing together by projecting the idea of a great reign of peace and prosperity and deifying or sanctifying this or that khan or king, technology and science are developed here and there like bohemia or japan

as long as intercontinental trade keeps being as lucrative as it has shere selfinterest and greed keep the conglomerate cooperating, but manicheans are a constant problem as they metatsased into a heresy both for catholic and mahayana dogmas and have a silly habit of starting uprisings and even pull crap like mass nonviolent resistances, which are always annoying to clean up

>>2563168
so basically the HRE, but multireligious and an absolute clusterfuck that is at constant conflit with itself but is uninvadable because no one wants to fuck with the giant clusterfuck of loosely allied semi-states stretching from one side of the world to the other?

actually kinda really fuckin neato

Alternate history threads piss me off very much.

There's too many of them, and they mostly deal with fantasy, rather than realistic scenarios. I wouldn't even want them then, though.
Why not post them over at >>>/tg/?

>>2562265
>having ketchup, mayonnaise and mustard as your flag

>civil war in china
>commies lose
A nationalist China is formally created in the fifties. There is a Chinese Emperor as divine head of state, a nationalist Constitution, and the three powers. The Emperor is merely a figurehead. Most of the power remains with some sort of prime minister (but with a cooler, Chinese name for that role), and the legislative branch which would be made of congressmen who would be called mandarins. Capital would be in the geographical center of Core China, around Chongqing. Manchuria and Xijian would be released as nations. China would be allied to Mongolia, Manchuria, Korea, Japan and Xijian in this day.

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>>2562265
>worldwide, everyone under one God (Christian God)
>no public sex
>no public nudity
>no pornography
>no masturbation
>obedience to God, the ultimate being
>faggots either getting treated or killed
>if you manage to masturbate, your hands will get cut off
>if you manage to have premarital sex, you will be castrated
>if people manage to make pornography, the works will be destroyed and the creators will be killed
>no niggers, mudslimes and other degenerates
>money rules

>>2562265
That flag is aesthetic as fuck

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The final years of the 13th century was a volatile period in the history of Poland, with numerous princelings vying for power in the land divided for over 150 years. By the year 1295 there two main players; the first was Vaclav, duke of Bohemia, a foreigner who managed to seize control over the south-eastern portion of Poland (on the map it's the area inside the thick black border). Vaclav's main rival was Premysl, a native duke ruling from Poznan. When Premysl inherited Pomerania in 1294, his domain extended all the way to the Baltic coast (vanilla coloured area on the map).
In 1296 Premysl was assassinated, his heritage became strongly contested because he was the last male in his branch of the family. Local nobility accepted as their new ruler duke Ladislaw, whose lands were adjacent to the east, but who had virtually no rights to inherit after Premysl.
Meanwhile the rightful heir to those vast lands was Premysl's sole daughter, princess Rixa, 7 at the time of her father's death. She was betrothed to Otto, a young margrave of Brandenburg, and everything that we know suggests that she left Poland for Brandenburg already during Premysl's lifetime.
Otto and his father were planning to push Rixa's claims to her father's lands, but they needed to wait for their own sake at least until she was old enough to be wed to Otto, which was after her 12th birthday, on 1st September 1300. Meanwhile they were building alliances with neighboring Saxon and Wendic princes, and trying to bring polish magnates to their side.
Alas, Otto died like a bitch somewhere in 1299 or 1300, we don't exactly know, anywayit was before the marriage could have taken place. The alternative scenario is, what would happen, if Otto lived longer, and by the beginning of 14th century the family of the margraves of Brandenburg managed to obtain Premysl's inheritance all the way to the banks of Vistula and the shores of the Baltic Sea....

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>Mao comes to power
>Lays the blueprints for the Great Leap Forward that aren't fuckin' stupid and doomed to fail
>Proper industrialization, no backyard steel
>Four Pests campaign never happens, no famines
>Maoist China isn't a hellish shithole to live in because of it
>Maoist China falls in 1960 and the KMT takes back the mainland, propelling Sun Yat-Sen to Lenin levels of cult of personality

>Lenin leads for three decades before dying
>Stalin comes to power after
>Forced collectivization was fairer to farmers but gulags and shit still enforced
>Soviet Union falls in 1975

>Same cases with all the other failed communist states except no Khmer Rouge shit happens in Cambodia at all

>Communism goes down in history as just some obscure and deeply flawed political movement with the same popularity as some obscure movement that's rarely ever discussed, like the Falangists or the Distributists
>Communism dies in obscurity, no SJW liberalcucks championing communism for the sake of looking edgy
>Communism has very little advocates besides a handful of weirdo radicals on the Internet that no one takes seriously

>Mussolini never takes part in colonial campaigns and minds his own business in Italy without partnering with Hitler
>Goes down in history as a somewhat controversial political leader with eccentric ideas

>Scotland doesn't become the UK's bitch

>>2562265
>And no Armenian genocide by the way.
Why do you say that? Are you implying such a thing ever happened?

>>2562787

>By the year 2000, the Earth is a perfect place.

Wrong, America still exists.

International trade and seafaring. Exchange of ideas and goods between the Americas involving Egypt/Rome/Polynesia.

Underwater caves in Mexico filled with skeletal remains that locals regard in fear and the vanishing of some American Civs suggest a genocidal event.

Aztec sacrifice religion mimics Abrahamic ideas of sacrifice and is a byproduct of international seafaring

Large reptiles existed recently due to dragons written and documented by Greece , Marco Polo , Romans and the Chinese.

Dinosaurs died for a multitude of reasons. Cold weather because they were cold blooded and reptiles don't migrate suggests they either hibernated or died when it got cold.
Lack of paternal instinct among reptiles suggest they probably ate their own young. Being so large demanded a volume of food that became unavailable. Like pandas , poor sex drive , long gestation cycles with high failure rate.

>>2563453
They are nice colors.

Is there any alternative history fiction written about what would have happened if the cuban missle crisis didn't fly so good?

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>>2562265
The further back you go, the more changes there will be in the future. The Eastern Roman Empire couldn't just survive and not affect the rest of the world. It would have an impact which would mean there would be no WW1 and no NATO, at least not in any form similar to the historical concepts.

>>2562537
Again, you have to look at the bigger picture. First of all, you need a very radical change to allow for surviving native states in modern Mexico and secondly, they would form anything but Mexico since Mexico is a colonial state formed from the territories of New Spain.

>>2562407
The geopolitics doesn't make much sense, but they've done a good job with the setting aside from that.

All my dreams in alt history revolve around a United ireland being buddies with England and dismantling Germany before giving their clay to poles and French people.

>>2562265
Why does no one fucking know why Colombus went to the west Indies

Who /kaiserreich/ here? One of the best balances between viable alt history and fantasy

>>2562611
greater Finland best Finland

>>2566242
>liking a game that doesn't have the desired border changes
We were just talking about this in /gsg/ you dumb liqourposter

>>2563399
>obedience to God
>money rules

choose one

>>2562407
Italy is completely forgoten

>>2562265
THE AMERICAN continued ww2 against the soviet union with their new found superweapon. After the soviet union the americans continued to push out the communists in china' thus erradicating communism forever.
This would nean no vietnam no cambodia no taiwan no north korea no cuba no angola no somalia no afghanistan. Basically all conflicts since ww2 could have been avoided and i belive that there would be world peace if that americans just pushed on

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>Adolf Hitler has a stroke in 1942
>more control shifted to his generals
>Heer is given the go-ahead to use Sarin and Tabun gas
>Paulus breaks out of Stalingrad with the majority of his army
>Moscow & Leningrad fall by 1944
>Russia annexed to the Urals, Reichskomissariaten set up
>D-Day failed since the war on the Ostfront was over
>In 1946, Germany launches an all-out invasion of Britain
>they're practically running on fumes, but somehow get enough men across the Channel that they negotiate a surrender
>they launch an invasion of America
>America essentially gets a status quo ante bellum with them in 1949

>it's now 1969
>the world was carved up by the Axis
>Germany implemented Generalplan Ost, less than 10k Jews left in Europe
>everything's going to shit though
>Hitler's on his deathbed, the generals are struggling for power
>rising unemployment, student protests across the Reich
>Soviet raids into RK Ostland are becoming more and more common
>Italy might actually peacefully transition to democracy and start decolonizing Africa
>Japanese Indonesia and most of China are under martial law
>the US and the British exiles in Canada are high on revanchism and gearing up for war

>>2562265
Ottoman empire conquers europe and from there on the world while it under civil pressure drafts a constitution and introduces a parlaiment where everyone has equal representation.
At the end we live happily ever after till colonization of space is possible.

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>>2568048
>Westralia

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>>2562265
There was an alt-history novel a while back where the Germans manage to negotiate peace with Britain and fight the USSR to a stalemate.

Then the US gets enough Peacemakers and rains nuclear fire down onto the Reich.

>>2562955
>Aboriginal zulu war in Arnhem

Oh dear lord.

Greeks and Sassanid Persians never fight each other to exhaustion and instead team up to BTFO the Arabian peninsula and convert them all to Zoroastrianism or Orthodox Christianity, stopping Pisslam in its tracks.

>>2562701
Dat donut Romania

>>2562725
>>2562923
>>2562985
What books desu?

>>2562787
>Japan could provide an excellent trade partner, exporting cheap raw materials across the Pacific once its plan of conquest was completed.
No it couldn't, it actually had to import everything because the logistics of the territories it was conquering all universally sucked so fucking hard.

>germany strategically located
>British and French colonies easy pickings
OR or, hear me out here, or us americans could NOT be retarded and let them all fight against each other (with aid we generously provide) and once they're all fucked up and bankrupt, swoop in kick everyones ass and then give them loans to rebuild the continent they fucked up with our moenies and weapons on the condition they let their colonies go. So that they all become our bitch and we dominate the fuck out of the following trade routes.

All of them.

Because fuck the British empire

R-r-rule britannia amirite?

Who has the strongest navy now bitch?

>>2570785
Why?

>>2570235
>Heer is given the go-ahead to use Sarin and Tabun gas
And in retalliation the whole of germany is blanketed in gas by allied bombers

>>2562709
This. It's the perfect balance to Florida

>>2570235
>>D-Day failed since the war on the Ostfront was over
We could have taken Germany solo

>>2570179
>Basically all conflicts since ww2 could have been avoided
And replaced with entirely new conflicts

Maybe a capitalist Republic of China gets all fucked up on credit.

>>2562265
Bad autism. Better autism is that the Ottoman empire existed as usual, died as usual, the difference being that Ataturks' rebellion was put down really hard, and the Greeks were given the Aegean back.

Kaisereich is always fun
>Germany wins WW1
>Suddenly commies
>President MacArthur
>Mega Canada

>>2571239
Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.

>>2572623
>not wanting Ataturk to take back his hometown

Are you a gyros nigger or something?

>>2566242
1. Germany got too many colonies after Weltkrieg
2. Syndicalism is too strong
3. American civil war between loyalists, right-wingers, syndicalists and breakup states is unlikely

But I agree that the mod has a good balance between gameplay and alternative history. It's the only reason I play Hearts of Iron.

>>2562265
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Faramir went to Imladris and not Boromir.

>>2572801
whats mega Canada?

>>2563399
Sounds like Saudi Arabia/ISIS but you worship a white pedo charlatan versus a arab pedo charlatan

Reposting a timeline I posted on /tg/ a while ago

>Jesus Christ is never born, or simply never becomes a prophet, thus Christianity (and so Islam as well) never come into existance.
>Around the period Jesus would have preached, several buddhist monks travel from India to the Roman Empire, and begin preaching Buddhism, quickly spreading the religion through the West
>After a couple centuries, Buddhism is the most common religion in the Empire, but the presence of other religions and schools of thought leads to a situation similar to China, where several religions coexist in relative peace, all taking elements from a common greco-roman mythology
>Buddhist monasteries take the role of preserving knowledge after the Roman Empire collapses that the Catholic Church had in our timeline
>Later Buddhism spreads to northern Europe, where the lack of organized religions to oppose it leads a quick mass conversion from the germanic and nordic tribes who desires the benifits of civilization that the monks brought. Those tribes then quickly spread through northern Europe and the British Isles
>By the year 1000 Europe is primarily buddhsit, and is culturally diviided between the Norse influenced north and the greco-roman Mediterranean

Thread: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51999791

>>2570373
That Stuart Slade book?

>>2563624

So the 20th century is the slow, boring triumph of liberalism?

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After Napoleon's second attempt at conquering Europe fails, much stricter punishment is laid upon France. This leads to the collapse of the Russian Empire while trying to occupy France and Britain annexing large swathes of old Angevin land.

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>>2573776
I like this

>>2563772
t. Mehmet

>Ivan the terrible does not sperg out
>Moscow never becomes de-facto capital of east europe
>Suzdal, Polotsk, Novgorod, Minsk and all split away from the short lived Muscovite domination
>Eastern Europe is peaceful

>>2575614
>Moscow became a de-facto capital of East Europe only after 1772.
FTFY

>>2575628
>Implying Russia wasn't the strongest state in East Europe from 1600s something to current date
>Implying St. Petersburg wasn't just the administrative capital, rather than the greatest city of the region
You're pretty shit at history desu

In 2029 the riots, civil war razes through USA and revolutionary movement gains huge momentum. It end with victory of communists and USA turns into USSA. The Rich and higher echelon of Old America run to Russia and take control/merge with it and Russia becomes the new bastion of capitalism and another cold war takes place.

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Here's a perfect world. Every night I go to sleep hoping I wake up in this.

>>2575650
>1800
>Biggest, oldest, seat of most powerful government east of Paris

>Not greatest in Eastern Europe

>>2573631
Faramir wouldn't have been tricked by the ring.

>>2563399
How will they find out I'm masturbating? I use my mind and the sewer nymphs take the evidence.

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>nobody posted kaiserreich yet

>>2575675
t. Voitek Absinthe-Drinker Von Goldberg

>>2575678
It was. The Kremlin was.

>>2563089
In this setting Italy would already have colozied Erithrea and Somalia, and wouldn't have turned down the offer of protectorate over some Burmese sultanate, like it did in real history

>>2562265
>tfw no Alternate History that doesn't end with cancerous maps of Africa

Working on a short story in which King Amalric succeeds in conquering Egypt desu senpai

>>2576153
That's not the point. Those colonies are all well and good, but they don't make coal and iron profitable. When Britain and France and the Netherlands set up colonies in the Pacific, they did it to corner lucrative markets not already available in Europe. Spices. Silk. Cotton. Tea. Light weight and worth a ton of money, because they weren't available in Europe. Coal on the other hand is all over the place in Europe. You can even dig it up in Italy. So there is no way to make it economically feasible to haul ass around three continents just for coal that you wouldn't make a ton of money on. Hell, you'd probably end up burning as much coal on the trip as you would end up bringing back.

Conversely, Japan would always have an interest in Korea, for the same reasons you think that Italy would. It's a big pile of industrial materials barely a hop skip and a jump away from the home islands. The shorter travel time makes it far more efficient for them to use these goods. Similarly, it makes it far easier for them to defend these goods/take them away from Europeans. As we saw in OTL, Russia was simply not ready to throw down with the Japanese, and the Italians wouldn't be either, even if they did somehow manage to set up colonies on the Horn of Africa. And even if they could, why start a war over coal? You can dig up coal in the north of the Italy anyway.

>>2563399
Go home Mullah Cromwell you're drunk.

No Protestant Puritan ISIS for you.

Fucking born again Jesus jumper jihad Taliban bullshit.

>>2574433
Why the hell does Iceland owns all those random islands

>>2576746
Iceland was the retreat of the Danish monarchy after an Anglo-Swedish invasion of Denmark-Norway. The current Denmark only came to be in 1823 when the British evacuated Jylland, Sweden giving Sjælland and Fyn up two years later.

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No Hyperwar maps?

>>2562910
we can only dream: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Mongol_alliance

>>2575667
Or at least been more resistant to it, but how does that bear out in the larger scale? Without Boromir frightening Frodo, will he head off alone (or try to) in such a huff? But if he doesn't, maybe Saruman's orcs will catch him and not Merry or Pippin. And what happens if he runs into Boromir in command of the rangers of Ithilien down the line?

A small, realistic butterfly - during Kamehameha I's conquest of O'ahu, part of his unification of Hawaii, his scout/commando detachments aren't able to flank or surprise the cannon positions in the hills of the Nu'uanu Pali and so he fails to conquer the island. Alternatively, Kalanikūpule never loses control of the European ships he captured, and so is able to invade the big island of Oahu and take the war to Kamehameha rather than vice cersa. Either way, he rather than Kamehameha ends up being the unifier of Hawaii, but with his more agressive millitary outlook and adoption of technology and lack of popular support at home (which foreign conquest is always good for quelling) he decides to take a page out of the Europeans' book and get some of Polynesia while the getting's good, extending his sovereignty down as far as the Marquesas, Society Islands, etc. As in OTL, this requires a large amount of American/European support and "advisors", and American "influence" over the kingdom remains strong, but a more powerful Hawaii is harder to unilaterally absorb and can try harder to play the various Pacific powers (Americans, post-Meiji Japan, Brits, etc.) off of each other and may remain independant. This would have major butterfly effects as we get towards the 20th century and OTL WWI and WW2.

>communist russia invades alaska shortly after defeating nazi germany
>establish legitmate military outposts/FOBS that thrive in the harsh environment, using nazi germanys resources to advance south
>

>>2577693
how? Using space magic? Using what fleet?
Also, >implying the Russians somehow had magic cold weather resistance that the Yanks/Canucks just didn't
>implying the Russians had better logistics than the Americans

>>2577693
also
>using Nazi Germany's resources to advance south

The rubble that was Nazi Germany by the time the war was over wasn't enough to fully repair the damage done to the Russian homeland, nevermind somehow financing and logicistically supporting a drive onto another whole continent.

>>2577555
Why would there be? We're talking about alternate history. Unless you're talking about a timeline where the Finnish won?

>>2577930
>Implying the Hyperwar wasn´t won by the Finns
>Implying the Koreans didn´t just take the credit for a mixture of environmental degradation, Sami territorial incursions and the Nokia collapse

>>2562686
Wow! I never knew that about the German prince

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Here's some alternate /sp/orts history I thought up and shared a few months ago. I added to it. it revolves around American Football never taking off.

In 1901, President William McKinley ended up running late to a speaking engagement at the Pan-American Exposition and decided to cancel at the last minute. Thus, McKinley avoided being assassinated and TR doesn’t become president until much later.

Fast-forward to 1905, where the sport of American football came under fire for causing 20 deaths and hundreds of injuries due to its incredibly physical nature. McKinley was not much of an athlete and was more focused on economic issues at the time, decided to outlaw the game to prevent more senseless deaths.

In the short term, Americans were unhappy with the decision. Football was on the cusp of becoming a popular sport among the citizens and was a big attraction at college campuses.

As a result, other sports attempted to fill the void. Baseball would still become the nation’s past time, but with no football to play, many poor American children turned to the sport of association football, or soccer, because it was cheap and required much less equipment compared to baseball.

In 1907, a young track star at The Carlisle Indian Industrial School by the name of Jim Thorpe was recruited to join the school's soccer club. He quickly proved to be a natural at the sport, due to his incredible athleticism. By the mid 1910's, he gained national recognition and popularity for his aptitude in Soccer and Track and Field. He would go on to win 2 track and field gold medals in the 1912 Olympics.

>>2578683
In 1913, the United States Soccer Federation is founded and gets off to a good start, earning membership into FIFA within a few years. Thorpe would ascend to stardom, playing for a number of clubs, in the early years of American professional soccer. Thorpe would return to the Olympics in 1920, guiding the US men's soccer team to a gold medal in the first Olympic soccer tournament. They would then repeat the act in 1924, cementing Soccer as one of America's most popular sports.

In 1934, the US men's team would win the World Cup after coming in 2nd place 4 years earlier.
Since soccer now has an established organization, hierarchy, and committed fanbase heading into the 1930's, it not only survives the Great Depression, it thrives in it.
When World War II breaks out, the allied troops find common ground and bond over the sport. Many American and British soccer stars would meet and hold impromptu matches on the battlefield that became the stuff of legends.

After the war, America would try to use sports as a way to build relations with the Japanese people in the US occupied Japan. Baseball was already popular in Japan, but US merchants and Soldiers would create intermural soccer teams with Japanese veterans and workers. As a result, Soccer became more popular in Japan much sooner. These early teams would be the predecessor to an Independent Nippon League. Japan would go on to have illustrious international success in the sport, eventually winning the world cup in 1986 against Argentina.

Starting in the early 50's, with the rise of the Cold War, the USSR didn't want to feel left out. They wanted their corresponding sports teams to dominate in international play. Seeing as the West had been somewhat unified in the world of association football, Stalin began pouring large amounts of capital into the Soviet soccer program.

>>2578689
By 1960, half a dozen state of the art indoor soccer stadiums had been constructed in the Soviet Union, and a Unified Soviet league had gained admission to FIFA.
The 1960's/70's era Soviet soccer team was utterly dominant, beating Brazil and the British in the 1962 and 1966 World Cups. Brazil would get revenge on the USSR in 1970, and the British would bounce back with a win it in 1974.

In the 1980 Moscow Olympics, the Soviet team was the favorite by a mile, whereas the American team was a work in progress. While the rebranded Major League Soccer had quite a bit of success in the US, rivaling only the British and Soviet leagues in quality and revenue, The US team hadn't won a World Cup since 1958 against Brazil and hadn't won a gold medal in the sport since Jim Thorpe's team in 1934. The US men's team went on a tear, led by team captain Walter Payton and legendary goalkeeper Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, making it all the way to the final where they would face the red menace.

A rag tag group of young and untrained American players took on an experienced and decorated Soviet men's team. The American's managed to do the impossible and best the USSR in what would be known as the "Miracle on grass."

>>2578692
Basketball, which became quite popular in America during the early half of the 20th century, fell out of favor during the 40’s due to increased competition from Baseball, Soccer, and Hockey. The dominant sports had a stranglehold on the market in America. In 1952, the NBA folded after just 6 years and some former league executives decided to gamble their fortune and took the game up north.
Since the CFL never formed, Canada had remained a one sport nation with Hockey leading the charge. In 1954, the Canadian Basketball League was founded. Since the game was relatively similar to Hockey, Canadians actually adopted it and within two decades, the Canadian Basketball Association had become a lucrative sports league. Soon, tall athletes from all over the world were coming to Canada in order to play basketball. A Montreal businessman would go on to introduce the game to the French in 1964. In 1972, a Nordic league was created.
In 1988, Chicago Whitesox outfielder Michael Jordan, who was notoriously known as the worst ballplayer in the game, retired from baseball and went north to try his hand at Basketball, a sport that he had dominated in during his high school days. Signing with the Vancouver Clippers, Jordan would go on to dominate the game and be considered the all-time GOAT of the sport. Even though he was a household name in Canada, you would be hard pressed to find someone who knew of him in the US.

>>2578693
In the late 90’s, Basketball had somewhat of a resurgence in America. It was mainly in the inner cities, due to the sport not needing a grass field or an ice rink. The sport has been gaining traction in the college level, but its professional league, the ABA, has been struggling and is a distant 4th in revenue and viewership among American sports. Rumor has it; the NCAA wants to institute a bracket style basketball tournament in America that would be similar to the chaotic nature of the College baseball world series or the College Cup.

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>>2563002
>Friuli and Venezia
>Not part of Italy

>>2568048
>Expanded US
>Baja is now a state
>Pan-American coalition
My fucking dick
I love AUs where the New World starts to unify

>1066, Anglos narrowly defeat Norman papal coalition in Wessex.
>Anglos become very isolationist after Stamford Bridge ans Hasting, paranoid about their existential fragility, continue to slowly drift from Rome.
>Do not participate in the Crusades.
>Century goes by, England grows increasingly rich, sophisticated, industrious and terribly well defended.
>Anglos effectively colonises Scotland and Ireland.
>Eccentric Stigand tier Arch-Bishop convinces the Anglo king to launch expeditions into the far east in search of Prester John.
>One group is apprehended by nomadic band on the steppe
>Anglos agree to assimilate, travel, and fight with them, preferring it to the inevitability of massacre at the hands of pagans.
>End up in Ghengis Khans horde.
>Diplomatic relations accidentally established.
>Relations turn into an alliance, Anglos providing valuable knowledge that helps the horde conquer much of Europe.
>Horde doesn't yield like in our timeline, is supplemented by England, a burgeoning naval power.
>Super symbiotic alliance, Mongols dominating terrestrial warfare, Anglos dominating naval warfare.
>Whole world falls to Monglo-Saxon Reich by the late 1600s.
>Monglo-Saxon becomes a distinct and dominant ethnic group but has yet exceeds 10% of the global population, though it's percentage share is growing.
>Religion is animist tier anglicanism, cuisine is hearty but not high cultured, lot of meats, especially intestines, beer, fats and vegetables. Equestrian prowess is highly regarded, only Monglo-Saxons are allowed horses. Archery and ingenuity is highly regarded, technology develops slightly quicker than would be commensurate with our time line.
>Threats to Monglo-Saxon rule are met with unashamed orgies spiritualised blood, torture and rape.
>Everyone looks like a Chad Elliot rodgers.
>End of history meme

>>2577852
>implying the Russians had better logistics than the Americans
This, although it's more like
>Implying anybody has better logistics than America and Britain
Mock any other aspects of anglo countries as much as you want, but our logistics for some reason are god-tier.

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Ho boy, where to start

I've been working on an alternate world whose history mainly diverges after 1991. The August Coup succeeds and the USSR has endured, albeit as a sick man. Also due to far less realistic kekery, the US is now a neo-conservative totalitarian empire whose movements have spread to many other nations of the world. and Germany is fascist again. The US-led bloc of traditionally conservative states and the German-led bloc of more fascist/right populist states were initially warm allies but had a sino-soviet split-style rupture over a variety of issues. The world is thus divided into four main blocs: the US-led, the German-led (sort of a faction of crazies united by a hatred of Communism/neo-conservatism ambitions), the remnants of the United Nations which are moderate socialist/third world/classical liberal, and the remains of the Soviet communist empire.

Other historical divergences are around as well. For instance after the failed French coup in Algeria, most French Algerian settlers move to Madagascar and later set up a white neo-colonial state. Rhodesia and apartheid south africa both exist as well.

Deng Xiaoping never took power in China and was executed during the Cultural Revolution by the Gang of Four. Mao's nephew Mao Yuanxin rules China and the country is still north korea-style hyper isolationist and backwards. Relations with the USSR are still shit as well.

Israel is full apartheid and gradually conquering its neighbors lebrensraum-style

India is a Hindu theocracy run by Shiv Sena (look them up).

Serbia won the Yugoslav wars and created Greater Serbia.

I'm turbo autistic and have been working on it intermittenly since 2009 and have gradually made a profile for the history of every country in the world, down to the likes of Guinea-Bissau and East Timor. In true autismo faction I've categorized just about everything for all the countries, down to their GDP per capita, if they have gay marriage or not, and homicide rates.

>whisky rebellion is successful
>the union and eventually the states themselves break apart into tribe like city states of near complete freedom in most
>the british see this and attenpt to attack the states
>all the american tribes see this coming
>able to defend against the british and take a bit of canada because france decided to fuck them over again
>this theme repeats as the european powers try to take out the americans and get fucked over do to revolts and other powers fucking them over
>napoleon decides that new france isn't worth and and completely abondons thend
>spain falls apart do to revolts and a surprise attack from the british
>canada eventuallys falls from a combined attack by the americans and russians
>russia gives up alaska because it isn't worth it
>all of north america is like pre romab europe as city boarders are constantly shifting and people just do what ever the fuck they want
>occasionally trade with the european powers and unite against open threats like a hungry japan or ambitious nazi germany
>baiscally a giant shit hole
>surprisingly enough most tribes have a fairly high standard of living because of kinsmen

Why the fuck are 95% of these

>Greater German Reich succeeds for some reason muh generals muh jet engine
>USA annexes canada USA USA USA USA
>Byzantines exist muh christendom DEUS VULT right guis???

Give me something new. Give me something interesting that doesn't reflect your fucking asperger political sensibilities. I want to see a fucking Madagascar empire or something.

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>>2580277
Here's something a bit different

>>2578683
>>2578689
>>2578692
>>2578693
>>2578697
Considering how a lot of Americans kind of have a boner for soccer and anything remotely British, you might have a chance at getting something like this published. It would make a hell of a short story.

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>>2580785

>>2562686
>Prinz Joachim was seen as a good choice because he did not speak English, and thus could be taught Irish instead.

Why couldn't he learn Irish even if he knew English?

I think it would probably be a monarchy, probably with a more power given to a parliament, similar to the UK

>>2562701
What country does that Vojvodina, Kosovo, Montenegro and Bosnia blob belongs to?

>>2581191
Muslim balkans

I think Rumelia is the proper term

>>2581239
It isn't, Rumelia is roughly southern part of Bulgaria.

Also there are very little muslims in Montenegro and virtually none in Vojvodina

>>2581248
>It isn't, Rumelia is roughly southern part of Bulgaria.
Rumelia is the term for the turkish balkans.

Thrace is the term for southern Bulgaria

Something I've wondered is what western religion would be like without the councils of Nikaea and Chalcedon. Without christianity unified, and fringe groups of christianity allowed to spread, which would be the dominant form today?

>>2581263
Depends on who dishes out names over time.

>>2564792
>Dinosaurs died for a multitude of reasons. Cold weather because they were cold blooded and reptiles don't migrate suggests they either hibernated or died when it got cold.

nigger wut? Most dinosaurs were mesotherms at the least , whilst most if not all theropods were fully warm blooded, active animals like their descendants the birds. there is also ample evidence of dinosaurs migrating.

Lack of paternal instinct among reptiles suggest they probably ate their own young.

what the fuck gave you that idea? The nearest example to the most primitive of dinosaurs today are crocodiles and they show parental care as do birds there descendants.

Being so large demanded a volume of food that became unavailable.

the great majority of dinosaurs know were no bigger than cows the truly gigantic ones were not the norm they were the exception


Like pandas , poor sex drive , long gestation cycles with high failure rate.

your inferring things here that cant possibly be known through fossils.

go read a book on dinosaurs that wasn't published in the 50's

>>2579074
What about Australia?

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>American revolution is crushed
>No independence for Brazil and the Spanish colonies
>China is partitioned between France, Britain, Germany, Italy, Austria and Russia.
>Anglos invade Japan before they can modernize
>Europeans rule the world for ever and ever and ever

>Carthaginian ships discover south america
>Reliable trade brings the potato to europe and the horse to south america
>Lack of Roman Empire due to continual Carthaginian presence means no identity of "Europe" is ever established
>Far east goes the same as IRL
>Mongols invade Europe just like in real life, but the people there are super fractured and lose heavily
>Mongols conquer even more of the world than they otherwise did using funds and resources from Europe
>Shitty Mongol administration causes total collapse and a second dark age
>Mesoamerica is now the forefront of global science and cultiure

It's not originally mine or even particularly plausible, but I still love it.

>>2581907
get EMU'D

>>2579074
>and Germany is fascist again.
Fuck off

>>2581907
Australia was with the UN bloc but Tony Abbott got elected and they became Austria-in-the-cold-war style neutral

>>2582653
Originally I tinkered with east and west germany still existing but couldn't do anything good with it. I couldn't find anything fun to do with Germany really. I'm not a naziboo or anything.

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>>2562265
Dude what if....? lmao!

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What if Napoleon was German?

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>>2562265
>Tell me about your alternate history autism.

I used to be a regular on the Usenet newsgroup soc.history.what-if (and I still post there on occasion) and one of the best alt-histories was “Drowned Baby Timeline” by Johnny Pez back in 2001, where the point-of-departure is that Hitler dies as a baby and Ernst Rohm becomes leader of a Nazi Germany and jumps the gun in 1936, getting his ass handed to him by the Poles, French and British with the timeline continuing into the 1970s;

(how the fuck do I post a link? I changed it to "DOTcom" but retard 4chan continues to says; "Error: Our system thinks your post is spam. Please reformat and try again.")

>>2583754

http://WWW.johnnypez9.blogspot.com/2009/07/drowned-baby-timeline.html

Eliminate the "WWW" and the following period.

>>2583799
>blogspot

Enjoy your ban.

>>2583541
Was Napoleon /fa/?

>>2562265
If Constantinople were to withstand the Ottoman siege and the Byzantine Empire remain, world history would be vastly different indeed.

The Fall of Constaninople in 1453 resulted in the flight of scholars and other lerned men alongside historical documents which, in large part, ignited the Renaissance. For Constantinople to remain would mean the Renaissance wouldn't happen, or at least not to such an extent as it did. The result would mean that Europe as we know it, and by extension its respective colonies, would be immensely different.

Architecture, art, philiosophy, ideas on religion, literature - even our languages would be differerent. English, for example, contains many words and affixes of Latin and Ancient Greek origin - the Renaissance is largely to thank/blame for this. Medical terminology is largely Latin and Ancient Greek. Religious art inspired architectural patterns and ideas across the world. Empires of the world would be changed by this. The deeply Catholic Spanish Empire in Central America, for example, would have looked quite different - and panned out differently.

Culture aside, the importance of Christianity in European life would have been affected. Since the Renaissance allowed Christianity to permeate throughout society and culture, the Vatican became a place of high importance. Consider, if you will, that such influence did not occour on Christendom. Maybe with it gone, the conditions for Lutheranism to arise would not manifest, or the tenets of Portestantism may have been different.

(Cont.)

>>2584618

(Cont.)

Further along the timeline, consider the curiosity in the Ottoman Empire the West had. With it gone, Jannisaries and harems wouldn't have developed. With Ottoman imperialism in the Balkans nonexistant, maybe Bulgaria or even Serbia would have developed into a highly cultured regional power. Perhaps Yugoslavia would have arose earlier under different circumstances. The Barbary Pirates and States wouldn't plague the seas, and North Africa would have developed differently.

Consider also WWI. The Ottoman Empire participated in the Central Powers. With it gone, maybe the Byzantine Empire would have taken its place, and Gallipoli would still have happened. Or maybe it would have joined the Allies. Who knows?

For these hitherto mentioned events and happenings to have remained, at least until the industrial/modern eras, largely unchanged, Constantinople would have had to be retaken. Most likely, this would have been a new Crusade launched from Trebizond to retake the city. Its fall would have still triggered the Renaissance and its subsequent influences on human culture.

There's just so much in the world that would have changed had this one action had a different outcome. As >>2562269 said, the butterfly effect.

But it's fun to speculate.

>>2562269
Pretty much. No people fleeing from a collapsing Byzantium means no Renaissance. No Renaissance means no (or different) excess of the church. This means no Protestantism. No Protestantism means the Puritans don't come to the United States and any colonization is different, the US possibly does not exist, etc.

>>2583832
>>blogspot
>Enjoy your ban.

Why?

>>2562265

What if mesoamericans had discovered ironworking many centuries before Columbus?

That would really change some jimmies out there.

>>2567265

I have something like this going

>Union collapses as a result of the civil war
>Confederacy fractures, all lower 48 states divided
>America entirely divided, British control over Canada lost in war with France, who force them to release the provinces separately (To ensure Quebecois supremacy)
>In the Northeast, Massachusetts succeeds in uniting New England, after which the entrenched White Anglo-Saxon Protestant ruling elite are overthrown by Irish-Italian communists
>Communist wave eventually takes the entire northeast from Maine down to Maryland, with the exception of New York City and Long Island, a free economic city state safeguarded by a British and Confederate fleet
>Speaking of the confederates, they reunited once more, sans Texas and Virginia
>Slave rebellions, including an entire breakaway state in the form of Nickajack supported by radical abolitionists, force the Confederates to abolish slavery and make significant concessions to the African American population
>Texas conquers Oklahoma, Kansas, and half of New Mexico
>Over the course of the latter half of the 19th century, also invades Mexico piece by piece until almost the entire country has been annexed
>Californians seize entire west coast, Nevada, Arizona, and Hawaii, becoming the dominant power int he west coast with the help of British and Japanese patronage
>Utah is a theocratic presidential dictatorship with a fervent population armed to the teeth that nobody really wants to piss off, allied with the Texans only to ward off California, but perfectly happy to sell John Browning designed firearms to both sides

>>2582915
>I couldn't find anything fun to do with Germany really.
That's exactly the impression I got.
>>2583541
Literally Hitler

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>What if Australian aboriginals developed civilization on th same time as the sumer?
>What if the incas and aztecs discovered and conquered Europe?
>what if nuclear weapons were developed during ww1?
>what if the mongol empire survived today?
answer me

The Kamehamehas prove healthier are able to actual spawn some sons. They eventually take over Samoa, fiji, Easter Island and tonga and take part in the colonization of Micronesia. Eventually they buy new Zealand and make a united kingdom type situation. Oh and you still get the based merry monarch.

>I would totally slaughter my fellow haoles if the claimant asked for his throne back.

>>2586313
>>What if Australian aboriginals developed civilization on th same time as the sumer?
Separate primary cultural circle centered on Australia, possibly enveloping Southeast Asia and Oceania today. Can't say anything about their culture cause it could have developed into anything over 5000 years. Brits still COULD have colonized Australia like they did with India and Egypt.
>What if the incas and aztecs discovered and conquered Europe?
End of Western civilization as we know it. Diseases might have wiped out Europe as they did in the Americas. We might have a different Western primary culture based on Incan and Aztec religion. Human sacrifice might have stopped by now because it stopped being necessary. Polytheism might still be a thing.
>what if nuclear weapons were developed during ww1?
Depends on which country developed them. They would probably have ended that war either way though.
>what if the mongol empire survived today?
No way it would have survived in exactly the form that it had in the 13th century. It either grows or disappears.

I have an alt-history in the works. The point of divergence is that a mixture of German strong-arming and less Austrian autism brings Italy into the central powers in early 1915 (in exchange for Trentro + some others, giving up claims on Trieste, Istria). The Serbian army never gets saved and they're totally fucked by the end of 1915. Greece stays neutral. Romania is bullied into joining the Central Powers. The Central Powers win in early 1918. France loses most of its colonial empire, Russia permanently loses its Brest-Litovsk concessions, Britain/Portugal are largely untouched.

- The Russian revolution still happens, but this time it's between pro-peace, moderate socialists led by Kerensky against pro-war Kadets.
- Britain has to cede Egypt, but the Egyptians fight an independence war. Germany stays neutral in exchange for shipping rights through the Suez.
- France gets totally fucked by a civil war between revanchists and syndicalists. Revanchists win.
- Come time to repay American debts, nobody can afford it. cue a big depression, and most of Europe switching to the German mark out of necessity. Germany heads a sort of proto-EU.
- Italian debt, war exhaustion, and dependence on German leads to a brutal civil war. Mussolini still ends up on top, but this time he's slightly more socialist.
- Romania goes fascist when people decide they've had enough of German hegemony.
- Austria-Hungary federates, sticks around a little while longer.
- World War II kicks off when Hungary tries to break away from the German mark but is blocked by the other states. Pan-German nationalists overthrow the Habsburgs and invite the Germans to annex Austria.

>>2562537
>What would it be like if everything followed our history up until independence.
The butterfly effect makes that impossible.

>>2562597
>At one point Euros will make contact with South America, and some form of conquest gets triggered anyway.
>>2566209
>First of all, you need a very radical change to allow for surviving native states in modern Mexico

That's not true. The initial Spanish policy towards the new world was just to establish trading ports. That only changed when Cortez and his cousin forced their hand by wiping out the Aztecs and Incas respectively, which Spain only later brought under it's control. Cortez was even initially rejected funding for his voyage by the Spanish. If he hadn't forced their hand by establishing a precedent for annexation, things may have turned out differently.

>>2571239
this

>>2562657
>Carthage never falls and instead hannibal destorys rome
>I have no idea what would happen other than the germanic tribes not copying the romans

Well for one thing, Carthage wouldn't take Gaul/France because (a) empires tend to expand east-west as they can't hold on to areas with different enough climates (and the Carthagian capital is much further south than Rome), and (b) Carthage was primarily a maritime power, so it would likely stay centred on the mediterranean. So modern France would be celtic rather than latin.

But Carthage would take the whole mediterranean, and probably also the Levant, where they originated from.

>a long with latin not being a thing making diplomacy even harder to do
Wouldn't Phoenician obviously become the lingua franca instead of Latin?

>>2563624
>Wants the benefits of rapid industrialization under Mao with none of the consequences

Why not just have a capitalist totalitarian dictatorship take over and industrialize instead of Mao then, and democratize afterwards?

>>2579018
>Mock any other aspects of anglo countries as much as you want, but our logistics for some reason are god-tier.
It's dat Germanic analytical proficiency

>>2582080
>Implying euros weren't destined to fight each other and collapse

>>2582111
>Mongols still conquer the world, even after a millenium of the timeline diverging given the butterfly effect
What makes you think that the mongol empire was so inevitable?

>>2583754
>Point of divergence is before world war one
>Nazi Germany still forms
Butterfly effect

>>2586313
>>2586364
>What if Australian aboriginals developed civilization on th same time as the sumer?
They didn't have the necessary conditions that the fertile crescent had, this is incredibly unlikely

>What if the incas and aztecs discovered and conquered Europe?
Native american empires would have been hampered by the north-south shape of the continent, meaning expansion is untenable because climate drastically changes to conditions you aren't used to as you travel. Not to mention the lack of domisticable animals present in america, which are essential for any real development of cities and therefore nations and empires.

>what if nuclear weapons were developed during ww1?
This is actually quite interesting.

>what if the mongol empire survived today?
Impossible, it was too overextended to survive.

>>2587445
>what if extremely unlikely thing x would happen?
>but x is extremely unlikely

>what if extremely unlikely thing x would happen?
>but x is extremely unlikely

>what if extremely unlikely thing x would happen?
>This is actually quite interesting.

>what if extremely unlikely thing x would happen?
>but x is extremely unlikely
Five star post

>>2587490
Sometimes you gotta shut a nigga down u kno

>>2562557
>>2562709
>>2572511
adding baja makes it look like the U.S. is dangling a shit.

>>2575644
shit/10

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>>2587420
>>Point of divergence is before world war one
>>Nazi Germany still forms

Soc.history.what-if always was a still is pretty strict about their alt-history, insisting on just one point of departure with subsequent changes to the timeline being backed up and debated within the discussion.

"DBTL" is a fun read, as good as any published alt-history novel (and better then most IMO).

>>2586313
>What if Australian aboriginals developed civilization on th same time as the sumer?
Read Lands of Red and Gold

>>2562557
anon are you vietnamese?

Germany wins World War 1. It's a less batshit stupid and less fun Kaiserreich where Britain becomes Socialist via revolution and the Soviets still win the Russian Civil war. Germany is the top dog but it lost a lot of men and its hold on the continent is poor. France was occupied both after the war and during an attempted communist uprising so it's little more than a German puppet with a very angry populace. Austria Hungary is still around because it amuses me. The Ottomans fall. Huey Long is president of the United States because why the fuck not. Japan is even more of a militaristic shithole due to not being awarded anything during World War 1 due to them being on the losing side. China is much the same. I haven't really given much of a shit about this abortion to list out what happens to places like India and Africa and South America

Alexander doesn't die at the age of 32. Greek ideas have taken hold from the Pacific ocean to the Atlantic and Buddhism not Christianity is the main religion

The most implausible alternate history is the one where I'm not a fucking loser.

>>2562683
nice try

>>2575644
a man can dream, cant he?

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Post alternate history flags

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>>2590375

>>2577930
Finns did win, albeit at extreme cost and very narrowly. The real loser was humanity.

>>2562265
American Empire
After WW2, new war technology (mainly the atom bomb) prompts USA and Russia to have a cold war that is an actual war, USA glasses Moscow because fuck civilians, with all of Russia in disarray US starts to claim parts of Siberia (connected to Alaska) as their own. Soon realize that if they want to put the land to decent use, they will have to connect the land to the rest of the world. They decide to claim parts of British Columbia and Yukon in order to make a passageway to newly acquired Russian territory. Take demands to Canada, leafs cower in fear and agree to USA's terms, American military bases built all along the west coast of former Canada, US continues to take parts of Siberia. China soon becomes a problem, US microwaves them and eliminates most of the threats. Area south of new US territories becomes uninhabitable because of the power of their new bombs. US is losing money fast due to money spent on new military bases and the cost to build and develop new nuclear bombs, so they start to perform raids on what's left of japan and the Koreas.The rest of the world sees the increasingly prominent threat of US invasion and forms the Global Defense League, US and GDL soon have a full-on world war 3, overwhelming casualties on both sides, most government officials for both sides are killed off, civilization reverts to a primal form, history repeats itself, have WW2 (really WW5), rinse and repeat.

>>2562604
man, I wonder what country you're from

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>>2590385

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The Viking Kingdoms Of Ferskvann Sjoen

1000 A.D. - the Viking colonists and some visiting traders at the L'Anse aux Meadows
settlement in Newfoundland, eat some bad mushrooms and collectively hallucinate Odin
ordering them to leave the island and move inland to the "Ferskvann Sjoen" [1] and the
entire settlement [2] packs up all their stuff and sails up the St.Lawrence River.

When Viking traders from Greenland arrive some months later, they find the settlement
abandoned and figure the Skrælings killed everybody and never return to N.America
as per the original timeline.

Meanwhile, the Vikings from L'Anse aux Meadows make their way up the St.Lawrence
River, thru Lake Ontario, portaging the Niagara Falls and thru Lake Erie, up past OTL
Detroit and thru Lake Huron to settle on Mackinaw Island and by the grace of the Gods,
[3] all off them survive and a new settlement is begun on the island.

While the Vikings are initially wary of the Skrælings and vice versa, they manage
to avoid any serious conflicts and inevitably, Viking men take Indian brides and the
settlement soon has enough people to maintain an effective population size.

As the years go by, the Vikings eventually expand, [4] forming new settlements along
the shores of OTL Michigan, Ontario and Wisconsin, using their ships and boats on
the lakes and rivers to maintain contact and trade (but not settling outside of the
Great Lakes basin due to religious taboos related to the original mushroom trip).

Fast-forward to October 2, 1535 A.D. - On his 2nd voyage to the New World, Jacques
Cartier lands at the Iroquois settlement of Hochelaga (OLT Montreal) and is shocked
discover several Viking traders there.

>>2590811

[1] Ferskvann Sjoen = Freshwater Sea = The Great Lakes

[2] from Wiki: "There is no way of knowing how many men and women lived at the site
at any given time, however archaeological evidence of the dwellings suggest it had the
capacity of supporting 30 to 160 individuals."

Lets say it's 200 people total, 125 men and 75 women and all their tools, animals, seeds,
ships and boats, etc.

[3] They got lucky

[4] Absorbing some Indian tribes, wiping out others but I'd guess Old World diseases
introduced by the Vikings would have taken out of most of them as in OTL?

>>2587490
>Nuclear weapons were extremely unlikely to be developed during ww1
I guess in order for nukes to be developed in the 1910s you would need a point of divergence far enough back that ww1 becomes increasingly unlikely to still have happened, so I see what you're getting at.

>>2562715
Nazis control the entire Arabian peninsula, while Japan controls Manchuria and Kamchatka. Hypothetically there wouldn't be much of a need until it ran out. Just playing devil's advocate.

>>2590385
Subpar flag. Not because I hate it but the ideal flag is just white finlands flag, with the lion switched out for a hammer & sickle if it's soviet, and a star if it's just generally commie

>>2590814
>Old world diseases
Imagine the disease spreading, and the remaining natives building a resistance.

>>2570162
Because Italy is fucking useless.

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>>2591597
> > Old world diseases
> Imagine the disease spreading, and the remaining natives building a resistance.

Sure and in this ATL, the Indians have 500 years to recover and adopt/adapt the more advanced technology and practices from the Vikings; Old World crops, horses and cattle, steel tools and weapons, ships, etc.

And while the Viking settlements would be limited to the Great Lakes basin due to the taboo, Viking traders would travel anywhere and everywhere, so that all of the New World is far more advanced in 1492 when Columbus arrives then they were on the OTL (though presumably still not as advanced as Europe in the 16th century, or maybe more so?)

>>2591637
>And while the Viking settlements would be limited to the Great Lakes basin due to the taboo, Viking traders would travel anywhere and everywhere, so that all of the New World is far more advanced in 1492 when Columbus arrives then they were on the OTL (though presumably still not as advanced as Europe in the 16th century, or maybe more so?)
I doubt it, especially if there weren't much to trade with. That said, I think the viking technologies in use would spread. Longships, metallurgy, and written language. It wouldn't change much unless, say, said technologies reach Mesoamerica. If that were to happen, the alternate development would be too hard to follow. I'm imagining an Aztec Carribean, letting them meet Columbus, and perhaps lynch him.

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>>2590375
>>2590385
The first flag you posted was actually proposed for Germany in 1919. There are other Nordic Cross designs with the colors in a different order from 1944 (Operation Valkyrie) and 1948 (proposed to distinguish West from East Germany).

Here's some OC I made for modern-day Lower Saxony/Eastphalia.

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>>2590375
>>2591874
Flag of German resistance in 1944

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>>2591882
1948 proposal for the FRG

>>2563624
>Goes down in history as a somewhat controversial political leader with eccentric ideas
Without the dick-measuring colonial campaigns and allying with the Nazis, what exactly is controversial about Mussolini?

>>2567265
>AnCaps in Colorado complete with McDonalds(R) presents Peace-keeper(TM) death squads

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>>2590375
Strasserist German Reich

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Union of Britain

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>>2591716
> > And while the Viking settlements would be limited to the Great Lakes basin due to the taboo
> I doubt it, especially if there weren't much to trade with.

I’m not married to the idea as far as the discussion, it was just a way to insure a stable and successful Viking society in the middle of N.America.

But no taboo to stay in the Great Lakes means fast transfer of Euro-Norse tech to the Indians, down the Mississippi and spreading out from there, with traders moving thru the Caribbean and into S.America.

And they’ve got 500 years to do it before Europeans discover the Americas.

>Franz Ferdinand avoids assassination, WWI averted until some other bullshit crisis 10 years later

How would that war go? I presume Russia would be in a much stronger position with an extra decade of industrialization.

>>2567265
This is fucking top tier.

>>2594622
Oh fuck they're all top tier

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>>2594622
>>2594626
There's always more.

>>2587410
Like I said, it's not that plausible. If I were to try and make excuses, it'd probably be that the far east would progress in a similar manner to how they did in the real world, since contact between those kingdoms and europe was sparse at best. Whilst the obvious butterfly effect could and would occur, there was arguably no direct european impact on, say, the land we today call china until after the mongol invasions. If china went similarly and nobody in europe directly influenced the mongols they could also be argued to progress in a similar way.

It's grasping at straws a bit (alright, a lot), but it always will when the deviation is that long ago.

>>2572580
t. Anglo

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>>2594825
A point of divergence I like a lot is an industrial revolution in South Song-dynasty China

>>2593144
Literally the flag of Molossia
>>2594359
>Great Lakes
I always liked the idea of the thirteen colonies remaining in place for a little while longer, with a westernized Iroquois confederation taking up the area around the great lakes, spreading guns, techs and other western ideas to inland Americans before the colonists get there.

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>Finland occupied by Germany after secret peace talks with the allies
>Mannerheim established as the leader of the newfound puppet government similar to Philippe Pétain in France

>>2562265
test

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>>2562265
Muh dick
>you will never live in modern day Byzantine Republic.

>Tokugawa loses at Sekigahara, Japan becomes heavily Christianized and joins the colonization game. The Red Seal Ships become a common sight in the Pacific all the way from India to Australia, Alaska and Hawaii.
>The British Monarchy is no more, Britain is ruled by a corrupt, tyrannical oligarchy.
>The United States and Canada are no more either. The South, Texas, Quebec and California are independent, the former Yankee states have balkanized further. The rest of it is an uncontrolled Wild West.
>Central Europe is ruled by the Iron Pact: an alliance of Germanic states, the Polish Commonwealth and Greater Hungary. Hungary and Poland are rapidly transforming from quasi-feudal backwater states to industrialized nations to be reckoned with.
>Turkey still controls most of the Balkans, but is rapidly losing its grip upon it, because Sick Man of Europe.
>The Italian Unification happened, but under the Papal State instead of Garibaldi.
>The Russian Revoution failed or didn't happen at all.
>France and Spain went Communard and are engulfed by a revolutionary terror. The royal families, right-wing elements, the aristocracy and much of the clergy fled to North Africa where they are plotting their return to the mainland.

>>2562265
>Marcus Aurelius does not choose Commodus as son and heir
>Rome survives the crisis of the 3rd century in much better shape
>Christianity does not become major religion
>Empire takes over Persia, and the Caucasus, starts eventually spreading into Germania
>a neoplatonic Renaissance blooms in the 7th century
>using tech advantage Rome takes over the world by the 15th century
>MMDCCCLXX population under the Pax Romana: 20 billion, half of which not living on Terra

>>2598027
MMDCCLXX I meant.

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>>2598027
>this never happened
We live in the wrong timeline.

>>2598027
>Marcus Aurelius does not choose Commodus as son
Commodus was his actual son.

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>>2596679
>a westernized Iroquois confederation

Despite their advancements, the Iroquois were still wholly dependent on Euro-Americans for guns, powder, steel tools and weapons, cloth, etc. and when the British hung the Iroquois out to dry after the American Revolution, they were screwed.

For American Indians to have any kinda chance of surviving the American “Manifest Destiny”, they need to essentially become Europeans themselves and even that probably won’t be enough (see; the Cherokee).

I think a successfully independant American Indians timeline requires a point of departure well before Columbus.

>>2593144
I sure hope that green isn't from Ireland. I'd be very angery if it was.

I can't exactly prove it (at least all of it) but I suspect that as much as 99% of American public education is really jewish fabrication with a little bit of algebra

>>2598412
You know what I would like? A to scale and accurate painting of ancient Rome at its height. Too often it's this kind of shit. Do you fucking realize that temple is like 20 stories tall?

And on the other hand I remember being a kid and watching the history channel and people being blown away in the 19th century by a building being 10 stories tall because that shit was just like, "fucking wow", but you then have artists like this douchenozzle that can't just take me to ancient Rome without blowing everything out or proportion or hollywoodening it all.

That's not art, that's just bullshit.


And it irks me.

>>2598030
fuck Roman numerals are mathematically idiotic.

>>2581187
>Why couldn't he learn Irish even if he knew English?
Oh of course he could. The reasoning of Pearse was that if the king spoke Irish exclusively, he'd be more inclined to revive the language in his country (it was never clear exactly how much power Joachim would've had as king) and the people would also be more inclined to learn it.

>>2598545
whew calm your autistits bro

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>>2598545
Is this to scale?

Akbar actually creates and actively promoted his weird synthetic Islamo-Hindu-Judeo-Buddhist faith.
The Mughal Empire culturally assimilates with the Indian sultanates and Hindu kingdoms.
The Mughal Empire survives British colonialism

>>2599499
>Akbar actually creates and actively promoted his weird synthetic Islamo-Hindu-Judeo-Buddhist faith.
Didn't he actually do this though

>>2562265
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg79R5jopj8

Is Alternate History Hub a good source for all this shit? I used to watch his videos but I stopped.

>>2601886
It's babbys first, but I guess.

>>2601886
He gives a good overview of the situation, introduces a question and goes through its most likely consequences. It's no "I'll invent this country and wank it off as a powerfantasy" type of shit. So yeah he's pretty good

>>2562611
What's up with British Somalia + Eritrea
Why not just take all of Ethiopia

>>2599460
Thats 4 or 5 stories tall

>>2601546
He created it but never actually promoted it. And he even implied it was a philosophy and not a religon.

>>2590106
no. why?