It's a French world, we're all just living in it.

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WRONG

t. Reverse Lindybeige

>>2492325
>tfw the franco-scottish alliance to destroy england no longer exists
we are in the worst timeline

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oui oui merci

https://web.archive.org/web/20130514174225/andaman.org/BOOK/reprints/weber/rep-weber.htm

>>2492314

>france
>created by germans

Your move, Jacques

>>2492338
France created itself

>>2492338
That makes no sense since France is older than Germany.

Perhaps you're confusing German with Germanic, that's a common mistake among English-speakers.

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>>2492334
Yes, we needed our alliance with France to help us defend against quintessential Englishmen like Edward Plantagenet, Humphrey de Bohun, Gilbert de Clare, John de Warenne and Jean de Bretagne.

I'm on to you eternal frog.

>>2492342
This, France was founded by Franks/French people inside a time paradox.

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That one is missing some dates.

How did France create Spain? Even the successor kingdoms of the Marchia Hispanica split from the French/Carolingian crown as soon as they could with Aragon even trying to dispute Paris' influence in the Midi during the Middle Ages.

>>2492389
Well France launched the Reconquista not only by beating back the Muslims over the Pyrenees but also by conquering Barcelona, and establishing the Marca Hispanica which would become the basis for the Spanish state.

Asturias is a meme, the Reconquista started from the Spanish March.

>>2492314

Belgium was not created by France idiot.

>>2492395
Neither was pretty much every other country on that map.

>>2492314
>says him, as he type in English

Now post the one with Rome and countries created by Rome and countries created by countries created by Rome. Then post the one about cultures heavily influenced by ancient Judaism and cultures heavily influenced by cultures heavily influenced by Judaism and cultures heavily influenced by cultures heavily influenced by cultures heavily influenced by Judaism.

WE LIVE

APE WORLD

ALL LANDS

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

How did Germany "create" Finland, again?

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>>2492314
>North Korea created by America
>All of those post-soviet states created by America
>ROC created by America
>Afghanistan created by the UK
>Everything except Serbia created by Yugoslavia
>Finland created by Germany

DAMN NIGGA! WOW

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>le fronz

'non'

>>2492314
What a fool.

>>2492395
lol what

France literally invaded in order to prevent the Dutch from taking back Belgium.

>Following the installation of Leopold I as "King of the Belgians" in 1831, King William made a belated military attempt to reconquer Belgium and restore his position through a military campaign. This "Ten Days' Campaign" failed because of French military intervention.

>>2492406
>English, a French creole created by the French rulers of England

>>2492409
That's pretty easy, there's zero countries created by Rome in the world today.

>Netherlands was created by the french
>in 1648
what

>>2492426
Russia collapsed due to being defeated by Germany in 1917, this is how Finland got its independence.

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>Countries created by countries created by France

>>2492493
>being forced to speak the language of a former colony
must feel bad

>>2492497
Treaty of Münster, part of the Peace of Westphalia. Dutch independence was achieved through the defeat of Spain by France.

>>2492509
We're all speaking America's language m8.

>>2492510
Pretty sure the Dutch did most of it themselves

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>>2492516
>America's language
Yeah. English.

>>2492527
English, aka bastardised French

>>2492521
They had been at war for their independence for 80 years, unsuccessfully.

Things only changed with the Franco-Dutch alliance, and France joining the Thirty Years War and obliterating Spanish hegemony.

>>2492314

>germany, a disunited clusterfuck until 1991, was created in 843
>poland, one of the largest independent states in europe for hundreds and hundreds of years, was created in 1918
>the uk was created in 1066

yeah, nah

>>2492314

>turkey
>vietnam
>algeria
>cameroon
>germany
>uk

So "created by" is just a euphemism for "lost a war to"

>>2492446
DELETE THIS

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MFW France's borders were already roughly defined by the Romans after Caesar conquered Gaul, and it is actually the Romans who had the biggest impact on the drawing of the world map, even though they existed 1500 years before we drew world maps

>>2492536
I see nothing wrong with this desu.

Germany was continuously independent since 843, Poland wasn't. England wasn't England before 1066 (that is not the England we know), it was totally refounded by Norman colonisation.

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>>2492531
>mfw bastardised French has eclipsed French 10 times over in importance

>>2492534
By that reasoning the Americans won WWII and thus created France

>>2492562
Read a book spastic.

>>2492566
Except France already existed, the fuck you on about.

>>2492549
All those are from wars won by France, or colonies created from scratch and granted independence by France.

>>2492562

>Germany was continuously independent since 843

Germany didn't even exist until 1871

>England wasn't England before 1066

The Kingdom of England was founded over a hundred years before the Norman Conquest, roughly 950 IIRC. William did not found a new state, he took the crown of an existing kingdom. His entire casus belli - as endorsed by the Pope - was a claim on the throne of England. He'd have had no legitimacy at all had he been establishing a new kingdom

>>2492575

>france already existed

No it didn't. Vichy France did, which was a German-created puppet regime.

If Poland didn't exist until 1918 according to OP, by his own logic neither did France during WW2, when it was surrendered to the Germans

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>>2492554
Gaul's borders are pre-Roman though. And they're natural borders, so they were drawn by God.

>>2492575
>>2492597
beat me to it

>>2492496
Turkey and Russia are still around

>>2492563
luckily it's the closest a "Germanic" language can get to a Latin one so learning Spanish won't be that hard

>>2492597
France existed both as Vichy and as Free France. Poland didn't exist in any way, there was no Polish government of any sort, and the land that became Poland was provinces of Russia and Germany. Stop being autistic Pawel, those two situations have absolutely nothing in common.

>>2492314

this is accurate

>>2492602
Id say the borders were defined by the Romans but clearly based off of natural features. I dont think you would have gotten many pre-roman Gauls to agree that it made sense to classify all of the tribes living in that area as living within the same borders.

>>2492606
I don't even

Turkey was created after WW1, unless you consider it the same state as the Ottoman Empire (highly debatable), which dates back to the 13th century as a khaganate. Nothing to do with Rome. And Russia was founded by the Rus who were either Vikings or Slavs.

France created the County of Barcelona, but didnt create Leon, Castile or Portugal.
Not sure if Spain should be considered a French creation.

>>2492624
They were ethnic borders too. Gaul was Celtic land, the few Germanic tribes that had spilled over the Rhine were an exception.

>>2492575
England existed before 1066 too. As did Scotland which for some reason you've decided was created in 1066.

>>2492346
France evolved from West Francia. The Frankish Empire before 843 isn't France

>>2492638
Let's be real, England as we know it, that is a French colony with a highly French-influenced culture and ruled by a French upper class, came into being in 1066. Conflating England with the old Aenglisc kingdom is like conflating Mexico with the Aztec Empire or the Arab republic of Egypt with ancient Egypt.

>>2492645
Same name, same capital, same royal and religious traditions, same key cities... It's the same country m8.

>>2492668
are the french really this delusional?
these levels of we wuzism are off the charts

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>>2492674
>this lack of argument

OP doesn't recognize successor states, so according to his logic, France was created in 1958, so only the African countries which France "created" by losing wars of independence to should be colored on this map.

>>2492654
>England...(lots of nonsense)...came into being in 1066
WRONG
Still doesn't explain Scotland. Which is the thing I'm really bumbattered about.

>>2492705
>France before 1958 wasn't France

lol I had heard "France before 843 wasn't France", but this is a new low in /his/posting.

>>2492713
Nigger Scotland is a province of England. It's not a country, it's not even on that map.

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>>2492681
HOL UP HOL UP
WE WUZ FRANK
KANGZ AND SHIEEEET

>what do you mean the Franks came from the low lands?
>nope, not a single drop of celtic blood here

Japan was created by a country created by France though.

>>2492714

Well apparently Austria wasn't Austria, Poland wasn't Poland, Hungary wasn't Hungary, and Afghanistan wasn't Afghanistan until 1918, so I don't see why this is inconsistent with OP's logic in literally any way

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>>2492719
>Scotland is a province of England

>>2492719
> it's not even on that map.
Neither is England.

>>2492720
>country called France
>capital is Paris
>roughly covers Gaul
>kings called "king of the Franks"
>kings crowned in Rheims
>kings buried in Paris
>patron saints are Saint Denis and Sainte Genevieve

>but it's a totally different country you guys, no relation

Holy shit just how desperate or historically illiterate are you?

>>2492748
>and yet england before 1066 is not england
Holy shit just how desperate or historically illiterate are you?

>>2492724
Pretty sure Japan is too old for that.

>>2492730
None of those were independent countries. You think France wasn't an independent country in 1957?

>>2492753
England is a French colony, Ingurland wasn't.

>>2492724
Who, USA?

>>2492759

Do you think Afghanistan wasn't in 1900? Do you think Poland wasn't in 1600? Do you think Austria wasn't in 1700? Do you think Hungary wasn't in 1400? Do you think Turkey wasn't in 1500?

>haha lmao but they arent the same country they have had countless constitutional changes since then
>but Germany? hahaha germany has been unchanged since 867 despite not even existing until a thousand years after that :^)

>>2492759

>You think France wasn't an independent country in 1957?
it certainly wasn't in 1942

>>2492748
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Verdun
The Germans, Dutch, and Belgians have as much claim to the Frankish empire as the French do

>muh cherrypicking
>Frank=French
>this level of retardation

I like how you ignore the Franks spoke proto-Dutch and that Clovis I was literally born on Belgian/Dutch soil.
If anything the lowlanders are the true descendants of the Franks, you gaulish scum can go wewuzism all you want, this fact wont change

>>2492776
None of those countries were independent one year before their independence dates. France was independent one year before 1958. Move on.

>>2492784
But it was, it even had two governments.

>>2492762
>Holy shit just how desperate or historically illiterate are you?
Desperate then?

>>2492668

Well, East Francia got a different name after same time and West Francia became just known as France. It means nothing, and the area where Franks came from and where Frankish dialects are still spoken is outside of France.

The "capital" would be Aachen during Charlemagne. Not sure what particular religious and royal traditions you mean that were exclusive to France. The Imperial tradition founded by Charlemagne at least wasn't continued in France.

Half of the Frankish Empire's territory isn't France, including Tournai, Aachen, Rome, Cologne etc.

>>2492802
lol what are you going to bring up next, haplogroups?

But even going along with your retardedness, France was already mostly Latin speaking since its foundation, nothing changed.

>>2492806

I'd like you to explain how Austria was not independent in 1917.

It's interesting because if you say it doesn't count because it was in union with Hungary, then the UK is also null and void because England, which was allegedly established in 1066, has not been independent on that logic since 1707 when it entered into union with Scotland

>>2492821
But even going along with YOUR retardedness, the HRE was already Germanic speaking since its foundation, nothing changed.

>>2492814
See >>2492748

Are you German by any chance? I noticed Germans seem to learn in school that Charlemagne came out of nowhere.

France existed for 300 years before Charlemagne you know, Charlemagne was just another king of France before he conquered most of Germany and Italy and was given the title of emperor.

>>2492822
>I'd like you to explain how Austria was not independent in 1917.
lol it says 1806.

American map reading skills detected.

>>2492831
So? What does that have to do with anything? I'm not the poster who complained about OP's map putting 843 for Germany.

>>2492850
Just pointing out that France!=Frankish empire
something that's extremely hard to get into a frog's skull

>>2492869
Pretty sure you already got told: >>2492748

Changing the subject won't help.

>>2492884
>Pretty sure you already got told: >>2492748
That guy contradicted himself something shocking.

>>2492910
nod really

>>2492923
t. that guy

>>2492668
>Same capital

GUYS
NEWS FLASH.

FRANCE IS ACTUALLY BELGIUM.

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>>2492884
'no'
>Frankish kings buried in France counts
>Frankish kings born in the low lands/Germany don't
>Frankish=French lmao
>The empire was split in three, but only our part is the true successor because i say so
>HRE doesn't count because of reasons

>>2492940
>Paris is in Belgium

This fucking board mang

>>2492948
Aachen was the founding capital of the Frankish empire, it's in Germany.

Tournai was the last capital of the Frankish empire, it's in Belgium.

>>2492947
All French kings since Clovis, with the singular exception of Charlemagne, were buried in Paris. Including Charlemagne's father and grandfather. They're all at the churches of Saint Denis, Sainte Genevieve, or Saint Germain, just like the French kings after them.

Not sure what the rest of your greentexting is about or what any of this has to do with the HRE.

>>2492832
>Are you German by any chance?

Nope

>France existed for 300 years before Charlemagne you know, Charlemagne was just another king of France before he conquered most of Germany and Italy and was given the title of emperor.

You mean Franks had a kingdom that encompassed parts of Belgium, Germany, Netherlands and France, then they conquered the rest of modern day France as well as large parts of Italy, Germany, Switherland, etc.?

>>2492958
I mixed the order up here, I blame the fact that I'm a moron and the fact that I had to look up how to spell "Tournai".

Tournai was the founding capital, Aachen was the last one.

>>2492314
>UK 1066
>A French vassal inheriting an already existing kingdom is the same as creating a country

>>2492958
Why are you lying? Clovis placed the capital in Paris when he founded France, and it stayed there for three centuries until Charlemagne moved it to Aix-la-Chapelle where it only stayed for his reign and that of his son Louis.

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>>2492962
>All French kings since Clovis
No matter how much you repeat it, French!=Frankish

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Veev luh Frahnts

>>2492314
Taking credits for the accomplishments of your better. For shame frog.

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>>2492314
>Countries created by France.
>Southeast Asia.
>The ancient kingdoms of Cambodia and Vietnam
Though Laos was your shithole though, yeah.

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>>2492965
No, for 300 years France covered roughly Gaul plus Franconia, and then Charlemagne conquered most of Germany and Italy (and that empire fell apart almost immediately).

>>2492974
>Ignoring the years of rule from Tournai.

Why?

>>2492832
Frogs seem to think that Franks came out of nowhere when in reality they were conquerers from the lowlands who put the ancestors of the French under quasi apartheid law after they rekt them.

>>2492995
Don't you know? The Franks spawned into France while the original Gauls went up into smoke

>>2492987
Cambodia was owned by Siam and Vietnam was a former Cambodian colony in anarchy.

>>2492991
When did that happen? Are you talking about the tribal Franks before the foundation of France? That wasn't France, by definition.

>>2492995
lmao, did they also build death camps?

The whole reason France succeeded while every other migration period kingdom failed is that they didn't act like retards like you're describing, but instead adopted Gallo-Roman culture and religion and shared power with the Gallo-Roman nobility so they could merge into a single people.

>>2492981
>France isn't France!

The final inane ramblings of the utterly rekt

WE

>>2493038
WUZ

>>2492990
Gaul isn't France though

Most of Austrasia was not part of what is now France, then they conquered most of the rest of modern France as well as Swabia and Switzerland,, then after some 250 years they aquired the rest of France and Germany, Italy etc.

see map>>2492720

Oh boy, I bet this thread will be full of the usual posters desperately trying to damage control by claiming France didn't exist.

>read thread

lmao

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>>2492314
This map is so funny I don't even have a real reaponse to it. Nice memes my Frank.

>>2493035
>get conquered by superior Germanics, who remain the elite for centuries
>ayy hol up we wuz Franks all along

The final inane ramblings of the utterly rekt

>>2493040
KANGZ

Is French shitposting the greatest thing on /his/? Look at all these triggered retards taking the bait.

>>2493046
Modern France is entirely contained within Merovingian France with the exception of a part of Brittany. Charlemagne didn't conquer any part of France, he conquered the Lombards and the savage Saxons, as well as Bavarians and shit, and part of Spain.

>>2493057
>the Gaulish elite, who collaborated with the Franks, suddenly disappeared

>>2493077
>collaborated
Thats a weird way of spelling defeated

>>2493032
Lex Salica distinguished between Franks and "Romans", the fine to be payed for the murder of a Roman was considerably lower

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>>2493077

>>2492668
>same capital
So Turkey is actually the Roman empire because Istanbul/Constantinopel is their capital?

>>2493015
>and Vietnam was a former Cambodian colony in anarchy.
....what.

Cambodia was in a shit position ever since the fall of the Khmer empire. How could it own fucking anything, considering even that the Emperors of Vietnam were one of the chief architects of its misery?

And what anarchy? The Nguyen and Trinh lords? Which was a vietnamese civil war?

>>2493069
>Is French shitposting the greatest thing on /his/? Look at all these triggered retards taking the bait.
Except the French shitpost seriously.

>>2492362
The Franks were Germanics.

>>2493092
Yeah that dates from the time when Clovis was still conquering Gaul. That kind of law became moot within one or two generations because those categories disappeared due to intermarriage. In particular Gallo-Romans were integrated into the nobility (usually as counts while Franks were dukes).

>>2493099
Does Turkey also have the same name, titles, regalia, places of crowning and burial, and patron saints?

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>>2493073
>with the exception of a part of Brittany.
and Septimania

either way, Francia =! France

>>2493118
Does it matter? Also good job on leaving out language because you know pretty damn well the Franks spoke a Germanic language, and not some bastardised latin/gaul mongrel speak

>>2493133
>every time borders change it's a whole new country

Guess America was founded in 2014.

>>2493137
Language wasn't a constitutive element of countries before the era or ethnic nationalism. France had several languages just as it had for its entire history, though the most widely spoken language was Late Latin / Old French. The only part of France that spoke a Germanic language was the Eastern half of Austrasia, so about 1/8th of the country.

>>2493143
>the empire split up?
>nah senpai it's just some minor border change

>>2493152
>Britain stopped being Britain after the British Empire collapsed

>>2493113
>That kind of law became moot within one or two generations
proofs? Just because there were cases of intermarriage doesn't mean everything was mixed up after one or two generations already. It doesn't seem plausible actually.

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>>2493167
>splitting up an empire in three equal states is the same as losing your colonies
You win Pierre, i can't deal with this retardation anymore

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and yet we're speaking about this in english...hmmmm....

>>2493193
>conquer land
>lose it again a few years later
>you are now a new country

You're right though, Britain didn't lose half its land like France did, but something like 99.5% of its land.

>>2493196
>we're speaking about this in a French creole

Makes perfect sense to me.

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Fixed it

>>2493217
Didn't get rid of the numbers, still makes France look way more important than they were.

>>2493217
>that denial

>>2493219
>Belgium is still blue
Then you have to leave the USA blue as well

>>2493069
>>2493109
>inb4 /his/ gets flags and we find out the shitposters everyone thought were British and French are actually all Americans

I was there when /int/ got flags for the first time, and it really surprized me how half the posters in threads about France and Britain were just Americans taking sides for either countries

>>2493200
You realize none of the British Empire was actually part of Britain?

The only part of Britain lost in the past 200 years is Ireland.

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>>2493219
It´s just the French colonies+Italy
Which shouldactually be in the second category since it was created by sardinia-piedmont

>>2493200
>>lose it again a few years later
compare West Francia with Francia under the Merovingians
>>2493133

>>2493246
Yeah France lost more than it started with, which it spent the next centuries reconquering.

Borders change, what is this your first time looking at historical maps?

>>2492314
Then who created the French? Franks were mostly Germanic with Gallo-Roman influences.

>>2492314
Wait, wasn't France partitioned and effectively destroyed within living memory? Can't Anglos (UK and USA) just say that they (re)created france?

>>2493561
That argument only counts if you're French

>>2493548
Yep. Gauls (best Celts), Romans (best Latins), and Franks (best Germanics) were combined to create the ultimate master race.

>>2493561
What, no. France existed continuously through WW2 if that's what you mean.

>>2493548
They were created by the grace of God, to bring civilization to Earth.

>>2493561
5 years of occupation of half of the country != partition. You're really grasping at straws here.

>>2493255
>Yeah France lost more than it started with, which it spent the next centuries reconquering.

Don't write bullshit if you don't want to be corrected. East Francia didn't just consist of territory that was conquered by Charlemagne - it contained large parts of Austrasia, which was the core of the Frankish realm. France didn't "reconquer" all of Merovingian Francia either.

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>>2493584
>>2493587
Really made me ponder

>>2493599
>the core of the Frankish realm

We've already established that the capital was Paris, and the city where the kings were crowned was Rheims. But we can look further in detail. The kingdoms of the realm were Neustria, Austrasia, Burgundy, Provence, and Aquitaine. The capital of Neustria was (depending on the time) Soissons or Orleans. The capital of Austrasia was Rheims or Metz. The capital of Burgundy was Lyon. The capital of Provence was Arles. And the capital of Aquitaine was Toulouse.

Every one of those cities is in modern France. The core of the realm was modern France.

>>2493636
bruh, Austrasia being the very origin of the empire is literally Belgium with bits of the Netherlands and Germany
>We got conquered earlier therefore we're more legit
Also why did you leave out Swabia

The Franco-British autism on this board has reached unprecedented levels
I can't even tell anymore if these are real French/British posters or just people role-playing as them to make them look bad

>>2493636
>The core of the realm was modern France.

Look at Austrasia. Most of it isn't in modern France and didn't speak a Romance tongue, which resulted in the curious fact that the greatest Frankish kings native language was a Germanic tongue.

The rest is hardly relevant, the Frankish kingdom eventually contained most of France, along with lots of other territory. It contained Romanic and Germanic folk. Sorry, Flemings, Rhinelanders, Swabians were part of the Frankish realm but not French.

>>2493663
I think you're confusing a lot of different time periods. For instance why would you call it an "empire"? It wasn't an empire, it was a kingdom or a realm. Charlemagne was the first to take the title of "emperor" and only after he conquered a whole bunch of other shit.

Secondly Austrasia was the home of the Franks back when the Franks were a Germanic tribe, before the foundation of France. We're talking about the country of France which was founded by Clovis around Paris after his victory at Soissons and conquest of the domain of Syagrius, all of that being in Neustria. But even half of Austrasia is in modern France, and as I just pointed out its capitals were Rheims or Metz, both within modern France.

As for Swabia it's not one of the Merovingian kingdoms because it was more of a dependency. The Swabians were tributary of France but weren't Franks and not part of the realm, and they periodically revolted. They were only definitely pacified by Charles Martel.

>>2493703
They were all French. This is 1000 years before ethnic nationalism was a thing, stop with your anachronisms already.

And roughly 7/8th of France was Romance speaking. The only Germanic speaking part was the Eastern half of Austrasia. Charlemagne came from just the linguistic border, which is why there is debate about what his native language was, although it's generally assumed to be Germanic.

>>2493675
>yfw it's actually the eternal kraut

>>2493587
KEK it would have been permanent occupation were it not for two greater nations
>crated by france

Besides, this would be what? the thousandth time Frances border had been decided by nations other than France?

>>2493756
France's borders remained exactly the same after WW2 as they were before, man you really suck at this history thing.

>>2493756
>KEK it would have been permanent occupation were it not for two greater nations

Russia and America?

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>>2493756
except France has decided the border of their neighbors more times you biased retard

>>2493707
> But even half of Austrasia is in modern France
look at the map closely; it isn't

>>2493724
>They were all French. This is 1000 years before ethnic nationalism was a thing
>before ethnic nationalism was a thing

>uses the term French instead of Frank
Jesus

>>2493786
Frank is the medieval term for French. Therefore it makes it more clear to use the term "French" for the entire history of France and reserve the term "Frank" for the ancient Germanic tribe, since those are two entirely different things. Rather than call both of them Franks which just makes it more confusing for people who already don't understand this period properly, and then making a nonsensical distinction between "Frank" and "French" around the 12th century when the terms evolved from one into the other.

>>2493724
>They were all French.

Take a semantics course, tard. French is etymologically derived from Franc, it doesn't have the same meaning.

>And roughly 7/8th of France was Romance speaking

2/3 perhaps

>Charlemagne came from just the linguistic border, which is why there is debate about what his native language was

Is there a debate?

>>2493801
Franks is synonym of French when used after the 10th century (so for exemple, during the Crusades or the Norman invasion of England), but before that, Franks didnt mean French
It was simply the name of the Frankish people, a people that is ancestor to the French and German people

>>2493801

So East Francia is East France?

And when Otfrid of Weissenburg (9th century) says that an old high german text is written in the "frenkisg" language, does he mean French?

https://www.escholar.manchester.ac.uk/api/datastream?publicationPid=uk-ac-man-scw:1m2715&datastreamId=POST-PEER-REVIEW-PUBLISHERS-DOCUMENT.PDF

>>2493811
Yes, it has the same meaning. French people were called Franks until the late Middle Ages. Arabs even called all Westerners Franks because Crusaders were overwhelmingly French.

No, 7/8th. All of Neustria, all of Aquitaine, all of Provence, all of Burgundy, and half of Austrasia.

Yes.

>>2493823
So you're saying the word "Frank" disappeared from the vocabulary, the people of France didn't have a name, and then the word "Frank" reappeared out of nowhere in the 10th century?

>>2493845
Yes, and no, Old French was referred to as Roman or some variation thereof.

>>2493876
pic related was roughly the language border, doesn't look like 7/8ths

>So you're saying the word "Frank" disappeared from the vocabulary, the people of France didn't have a name, and then the word "Frank" reappeared out of nowhere in the 10th century?

Semantic shifts happen. Before the 10th century, the word Franc isn't synonymous with French, as evidenced by Otfrid's use of the word: He uses it describe an OH German text and the speakers of that language. Only later the term can be translated as French, meaning the romance language speaking people in modern France.

>Yes, and no

East Francia has the same meaning as East France? Doesn't it illustrate to you, that at that time (9th century and before), Franc cannot be translated as French?

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>>2493946

>>2493950
You're being generous with northern-italy

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>>2493946
Pic related is roughly where the linguistic border was. In any case it's quite clear that the majority of the country was Romance speaking. Not that language was of any significance 1000 years before 19th century nationalist autism.

>as evidenced by Otfrid's use of the word
He's talking about a language, not a people. The people of Merovingian and Carolingian France were called Franks, just as the people of 10th century France were, regardless of the language they spoke (of which there were several).

>>2493111
Germanics =/= German retardo

>>2492314
In what world did the UK get created by France in 1066?

>>2494095
It's alrealy been pointed out that the map is retarded, we can all go to bed now

>>2494095
You seriously never heard of the Norman Conquest?

>>2494118
Alright thanks bud, goodnight.

>>2494131
>normans
>french
yeah ok then

>>2493994
The language border at the coast of Flanders was further south and is a bit too far in the East in this picture

>He's talking about a language, not a people.
He's talking about both and it means that semantically one can't equate Frank in the 9th century with the meaning the word French acquired later.

>>2494142
lmao, congrats you're the first poster ITT to sink to that level of desperation.

>>2494147
It was a lot further down south before a French twat annexed some of our clay
French-Flanders was mainly Dutch speaking well into the 19th century

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>>2493772
How about during the war?
Did French borders change at all during their occupation? KEK

>>2493774
I was talking about the UK and the USA, but yes there are many other nations which are both greater than France in the general sense and made greater contributions to the war effort than France.

From the WWII wikipedia page:
Main Allied leaders
>Soviet Union Joseph Stalin
>United States Franklin D. Roosevelt
>United Kingdom Winston Churchill
>Republic of China (1912–49) Chiang Kai-shek

de Gaulle, due to his excruciating irrelevance is of-course not on the list.

>>2493784
hmm, I doubt that somehow, but even if it was true that wouldn't change the fact that France's borders, on many occasions, have been at the mercy of actual first rate powers.

>>2494170
man you don't even need a bong flag

>>2494147
Yeah the border is rough, I agree it should be just a tiny bit lower on the coast, and go horizontally to just below Herstal.

No, he's talking about Franconian basically, and he's in Germany writing in German (Teutonic) language. In France the term Frank was never tied to language. For example by the 10th century Roman had differentiated into Oïl language in the North and Oc (Occitan) in the South, yet both people were referred to as Franks, both within and outside France.

But what do you think the people of Merovingian and Carolingian France were called if not Franks?

>>2494156
French Flanders is minuscule.

>>2494170
Yes but they reverted, so I don't see who you think determined them "for France".

In the real world, France was the main power and had the biggest influence on most of the great treaties that have redrawn the borders of Europe, like Westphalia, or Versailles, or even ironically Vienna, where France actually gained territory compared to its pre-war state despite the defeat of Napoleon.

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>>2494189
It is now
Even though the size, Flanders was quite rich and influential in medieval times, before the French and Spanish fucked our shit up
fun fact; we're the only part of medieval France that isn't part of it today
>mfw

>>2494170
>on many occasions, have been at the mercy of actual first rate powers.

The why is France the biggest country in western yurop? Elaborate on those ''many occasions'' and those ''actual first rate powers'' because it sounds like you're talking out of your ass.

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>>2494182
I'm English, I must be wrong! KEK this thread is ecstasy.
>>2494197
>they reverted
>real world
France's borders just decided to revert!

>>2494209
>The why is France the biggest country in western yurop? Elaborate on those ''many occasions'' and those ''actual first rate powers'' because it sounds like you're talking out of your ass.

>Land Area correlates to relevance KEEEEEEEEEEEEK!

If you said "teach me about history please because I am woefully ignorant of it" or something similar I might dispense some of my wisdom lad.

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I fucking love these threads

>>2494070
No duh, dumbass.

>>2494248
>ignores arguments
>completely misses the point

get out Nigel

This thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJgAkIg8Epg

>>2494142

Normans are French, they just got their name from their Northern Overlords.

>Switzerland
>3 years of occupation ending after never ending turmoil = creating a country

>>2492314
fuck off boney

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>>2494142
>Normans
>not French

What's next, Scots arent British?

>>2492392
>Asturias is a meme, the Reconquista started from the Spanish March.
Yes that's why the noble Aragon kingdom still lives on with its mighty language till this day.
Oh wait.

>>2495784
The map doesn't show Switzerland as created directly by France. It was created out of the HRE.

>>2495822
The fact that Castile became more powerful centuries later doesn't change the fact that the Reconquista started at the Spanish March. If anything it explains why greater emphasis is put on Asturias in traditional Spanish historiography.

>>2495826
It wasn't created BY the HRE. It was really in contrast with it really. The map doesn't say created out of, but created by

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>>2495850
>>2495826
Actually Switzerland should be darker blue. It got its independence from the HRE in the Peace of Westphalia as a result of the Thirty Years War, which was essentially won by France.

Fixed the map.

>>2495784
>>2495826
>>2495850
>>2495866
A better name for the map would be "countries that exist because of France", rather than "created by France"

>>2495866
The thirty years war only formalised Switzerland's independence, it had been de facto so for at least a century if not two
>>2495872
The only way you could say that "Switzerland exists because of france" would be by saying that Switzerland only exists because France didn't bother to conquer it

>>2495866
In fact it was the Duke of Orleans, head of the French delegation and prince of the Swiss canton of Neuchatel, who forced the independence of Switzerland at Westphalia.

But yeah the whole Peace of Westphalia was basically France dictating terms.

>>2492314
Fuck off anti-beige

>>2492314
>American revolution
>French Revolution

French fucked the entire white race with it.

t. French

>>2493099
>Istanbul capital of Turkey
This is sad because some of anon seem to be really interested in History, but we all share our nickname with this guy.

>>2496268
Not really, Napoleon was the last hope for Western civilisation.

>>2492314

>the US created Belarus
>the US created Ukraine
>the US created Turkmen, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, and Tajiki-stans
>Yugoslavia created Croatia
>Yugoslavia created Slovenia
>Yugoslavia created Bosnia

literally what the fuck am i reading and don't even get me fucking started on France creating any country inside Europe other than France

>>2497380
USA won the Cold War, leading to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the creation of all those states. Croatia, Slovenia, and Bosnia were created from the dissolution of Yugoslavia.

>>2492346
Franks weren't just Germanic, but specifically German.

>>2497394

this is a retarded thesis. The USA had no agency in creating Ukraine other than recognizing it, along with every other country in the world, when the Ukrainian SSR declared independence in 1991

Yugoslavia cannot "create" Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia when Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia existing renders the entire concept of Yugoslavia void

this is like saying the roman empire "created" the vandal and visigothic kingdoms when the absence of the roman empire was a prerequisite for the existence of those states

>>2497405
Nah they were clearly African-American.

>>2497413
No, since Romans and Vandals were different people.

The Slovenes, Croats, and Serbs united to create Yugoslavia, and then separated again. But they could only do any of those things because they were liberated from Austrian rule by France in the first place. You could straight up say that they were created by France directly, it's just that it would ignore the Yugoslav stage in between.

>WE
>LA WUZ

>>2497405
VE

>>2497413
If you skip through the Soviet Union, you could say states like Ukraine or Belarus were in fact created by Germany at Brest-Litovsk. Not sure which is more accurate.

>>2492388
Hungary sure as hell wasn't created neither in 1918 nor by France.
This map is objectively shit.

>>2497667
Hungary was created through the breakup of Austria-Hungary in WW1.

>>2497636
its NOUS ÉTIONS ROIS ET LA MERDE

>>2497847
>nous

>>>/int/

>>2492314
DELET THIS

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>>2497847
WE WUZ KANGZ N SHIET
>hum, yes here you can see it is written we had like a hundred of them
ah hell naw nigga you be sayin you trully wuz kangs afterall ? b-but muh meme what's going

>>2492314
how France did create Brazil
>>2492549
>lost a war to Cameroon
Wrong.

>>2498186
Brazilian independence was a direct consequence of the French conquest of Portugal.

>>2492328
Lindybourgogne

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western world is Roman.

>>2498369
Beige is already a French word though.

>>2498378
>posts a French statue
lmao

>>2498186
Royal family fled from Portugal to Brazil.
Set up all the institutions for a working State
Then just decided to stay after the war was over

The rest is history

México wasn't created by France you rhètard

>>2498587
Abdications of Bayonne.

>>2497358
Napoleon was against the Revolution and basically BTFO'd it

His system was meritocratic(which is against egalitarianism), he reinstalled slavery, and put back the women in their kitchen.

>>2492645
>>2497405

Fuck off our country exist since Merovée

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>>2492314
I hope one day God will strike down France just like he did with Sodom, and French race will cease to exist.

>>2492314
Only if you live in a third world country (yes, that includes France itself).

>>2499431
>He believe in a kike religion

I hope Ahura Mazda will strikes you down you and your semitic cult

ARYAN PRIDE
W
O
R
L
D

W
I
D
E

>>2499462
>Ahura Mazda
Goatfucker religion.

>>2499468
>Goatfucker religion.

Aryan religion greatly valued by the Ancient Greeks and Romans*

>>2499471
Fuck off with your pagan horseshit Reza, I'm not interested.

>>2499476
Alexandre*


You should kys cause your "turn the other cheek"-religion is what bringing down the White Race

>>2499487
You should kys because you are talking to your betters as if you were their equal.

>>2499492
>my better
>e*stern europoors

LMAO

I certainly make five tive more monney than you

>>2499431
>posts a picture of austria-hungary
looks like god made his choice and decided France would survive and you wouldn't lmao

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>England
>1066

FUCKING
DELETE
THIS

>>2493741
This.

There are no French or British posters on this board, both are just Krauts roleplaying.

>>2499425
Napoleon was a Jacobin and meritocracy is the immediate consequence of equality, holy shit nigger please never post anything again.

>>2492589
This desu. This is autism : the map. And i am french btw, je vois difficilement comment le prouver cela dit.

>>2499922
Ask yourself, when was the last time those two countries were fundamentally reshaped in their very essence?

>>2497667
>>2497692

France, Britain, and America stole 75% of Hungarian land in 1918 after the Central Powers' defeat in WW1. They then gave that land to ethnic minorities in Hungary who then violently purged Hungarians from their homes. That's probably why he put that date there, but you're right Hungary was officially created in the year 1000. Map is wrong.

>>2499876
My fucking flanks are gone

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No wonder the jews went to live there.

>>2499957
Nah it means that Hungary would still be owned by Austria if it wasn't for France winning WW1.

>>2492392
The only relevant in the reconquista is Castile. This is a fact.

>>2500166
Castile would never have existed if it wasn't for France launching the Reconquista.

>>2500192
The county of Castile was formed inside the kingdom of Asturias which was created after Covadonga.

>>2500233
Covadonga was a tiny battle and completely forgotten until it was turned into a meme over a thousand years later by historians who discovered it was the first time Spaniards defeated Muslims, and thus labeled it as the start of the Reconquista. It wasn't even the first Christian victory over the Muslims, that was the battle of Toulouse one year earlier, which was much much larger and mourned by the Iberian Muslims as a disaster, whereas Covadonga isn't mentioned by them at all.

Now that is not to diminish Asturias' accomplishment, which was to defend against Muslim invasion and retain its independence, just as the Basques had. But they were a tiny mountain kingdom and certainly would never have achieved any sort of reconquest without the Franks. The beginning of Christians actually reconquering land taken by the Muslims was when the Franks (after removing the Muslims from France) established the Spanish March, then captured Barcelona, and established what would become the kingdom of Aragon, which like Navarre originally was a vassal to France.

Later of course most of the Reconquista was done by Castile, but that doesn't change that it started with the Franks in Aragon. And reminder than Spain isn't a Castilian empire, but was formed from the equal union of Castile and Aragon, and tanto monta monta tanto Isabel como Fernando.

>>2500284
>and established what would become the kingdom of Aragon, which like Navarre originally was a vassal to France.
The kingdom of Aragon was an offshot of the kingdom of Pamplona.King Sánchez splitted the kingdom of Pamplona into Castile,Aragon and Navarra
>which like Navarre originally was a vassal to France
Navarra wasn't a vassal of France until much much later
>And reminder than Spain isn't a Castilian empire
It is
>equal union of Castile and Aragon
It wasn't.As Castile was several magnitudes more powerful and advanced than Aragon.Aragon contributed as much or fewer than Navarra to the empire

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>>2492314
Just remember who created the french

>>2492314
>brazil created by france
Wait, what?

>>2500803
you fucking stupid idiot piece of shit you didn't even read the thread or use ctrl+f
>>2498186
>>2498336
>>2498430

>>2492314
Do French people really believe it?
Sure, they had their time to shine in history, but they are not any more relevant than Germans, and certanly less relevant than the Brits

>>2500913
Brits and french are basically equally relevant, and germans are way behind them

>>2500921
Brits gave birth to the industrial revolution, discovered newtonian mechanics and theory of evolution. Also they gave birth to the next superpower, America.

French had absolutism, a few shitty colonies in Africa, and they copied British law system and brought it to continental Europe

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>>2500913
>Germans
>relevant

Literally never had a successful empire.

>Holy
>Roman
>Empire

No explanation needed.

>German Empire

Lasted only 47 years.

>Nazi Germany

12 years.

>>2500930
You are moving goalpost from relevancy to quality or "goodness"
Quebec still speaks prevalently french, France still has huge relevance in Africa, France has a military worthy of this name unlike Germany, they have nukes, they are in the UN security council
They've started the revolutionary movements of the 19th century, (in)directly creating the nationalistic movements, they brought the end of monarchies, spread enlightenment, Napoleone brought his system of law across Europe
20th century psychology and filosophy is dominated by french figures (Focault. Larousse, and all these neo-marxists)
Then you have people like J.J. Rosseau and others I can't name because I'm too ignorant
French has also been the powerhouse of Europe, with the largest and best military, basically ever since Charlemange

>>2500930
The French killed feudalism (thus creating the world we live in) and invented nationalism, socialism, the metric system, cars, helicopters, cinema and tons of other thing used in everyday life

>Also they gave birth to the next superpower, America.
More like France gave birth to it by allowing it to be free from Britain

>>2500913
In case you havent realized, op is a burger roleplaying

>>2500930
nice cherrypicking Lindy

>>2500913
>and certanly less relevant than the Brits

lmao, real subtle Nigel.

>>2500930
France created Catholic feudal society and everything about it, scholasticism, the Scientific Revolution, Enlightenment, the Modern Era, modern philosophy, modern mathematics, modern chemistry, modern medicine, as well as almost every Western style of art and architecture and the vast majority of Western inventions, and that's just scratching the surface.

Even your claims are mostly French things you're trying to take credit for: the Industrial Revolution is nothing but the direct consequence of the Scientific Revolution, I'll give you Newton although a good portion of what is attributed to him was actually discovered by Jean Buridan, evolution was discovered by Jean-Baptiste Lamarck not Darwin, and America was created from France raping the shit out of Britain.

>>2500993
Damn nigger when you think about it Britain doesn't even come close.

Although they do their darndest to compensate with delusional arrogance and undeserved self-importance.

>>2492617
>invaded and occupied by a foreign power
Seems pretty similar

>All this French wewuzing
Sad!

>>2492314
>USA
>created by france
Sure the frogs did a lot to help the revolution and peace accords, but that's hardly creating the nation.
Helping gain independence is not the same thing as actually creating the nation, you dumb frog. One allows for the other, like sex allows for birth, but only a fool would say sex is the same thing as giving birth.

>>2501446
It's not even that close. It's like saying The USSR created China.

>>2501446
>sex is the same thing as giving birth

So France is your dad, that means France created you. Sure Britain also played a role as the rape victim, but it never would have happened without France.

>>2501675
>So France is your dad, that means France created you
You are one retarded frog.
Did the french write the constitution?
Did the french contruct any of our capital buildings?
Did the french even goven us?
No, they did none of those.
France helped us gain independence. That in no way is creating the united states, and only an idiot would claim as much.

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>>2501702

>Did the french write the constitution?
Pretty much yeah. French philosophers had been writing it for decades.

>Did the french contruct any of our capital buildings?
top kek, your entire capital city was designed by a Frenchman, Pierre Charles L'Enfant. The White House is an exact copy of a small palace in France, while the dome of the Capitol is an almost exact copy of that of the Pantheon in Paris.

And none of that even has anything to do with the fact that France created America, it's like you're just trying to get extra rekt or something.

>>2492388
>Latin American countries
>created by France
What

>>2501812
They got their independence as a direct result of France conquering Spain and Portugal.

>>2501702
What you describe is the equivalent of raising a child
France is like a dad that fucked the mom and left immediatly afterward
Your values and the way you grew up have nothing to do with him, but still you exist because of him

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>>2501961
I think France also did a lot to raise America too though. There's the values of course, but also for example throughout the 19th century and until the 1920s, all important American intellectuals spent their formative years in Paris. France even sent America gifts for its birthday.

>>2502100
Truth is America was francophile as fuck and a lot closer to France than to Britain up until WW2. Shame what happened after.

>>2501913
France got independent as a direct result of the allies conquering Germany

>>2502272
But France already existed before that
It was just restoring independence after 4 years of vassalage
Meanwhile, Latin American countries were literally created as a result of the French invasion of Spain

>>2502297
I'm pretty sure the revolutionairy forces did most of the work, same can be said about the USA etc
But then again you're a retard who believes that losing WWI=created by France and that post cold war nations=created by the USA

also
>Germany
>843
what the fuck dude, by that reasoning France was created by Belgium

>>2502388
>But then again you're a retard who believes that losing WWI=created by France and that post cold war nations=created by the USA
I'm not OP though

>Germany
>843
>what the fuck dude
Both France and Germany were factually born in 843
Though, OP is wrong when he assumes that Franks = France and that therefore Germany was created by France
The truth is that the Frankish Empire was neither French nor German but the common ancestor nation of these two nations

>>2502542
>The truth is that the Frankish Empire was neither French nor German but the common ancestor nation of these two nations
I've been trying to point this out the whole goddamn time
French posters can be extremely retarded when it's about the Franks

>>2492388
Saying the French created England would be like crediting the manchu for creating China.

I'm French and i'm embarrassed by this thread

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>>2492634
belgae were germanic tribes that settled in gaul

deal with it frog MUH RHINE MUH NATIONALIST PHANTASIES MUH NAPOOPAN. i hope you fucks never set a single foot in the rhineland again just because I know it makes you mad, not even German.

>>2502800
This thread and all the other arrogant "pro-French" threads on /his/ right now are made by Brits
They've been doing that shit with Britain and it resulted in everyone hating them, so now they try do do it with France to stop the general francophilia on this board

>>2497571

>you could say X "directly" caused Z
>if you ignore that Y also directly caused Z

doesn't really work pal

Why is everybody on this board so obsessed with France.

>>2502946
>Why are the French on this board so obsessed with themselves.
fixed

>>2502866

Wouldnt know if it's the Brits

But pls dont hate France /his/

We tried our best

>>2502800
Why are French people always such massive cucks? Fucking makes me cringe.

You think Brits would be "embarrassed" by someone pointing out British achievements? No, they'd just brag even harder than they do already. As a result everyone in the world believes the British invented the modern world, while the French are seen as nothing but worthless pretentious cowardly surrender monkeys, and will most likely be forgotten by history.

Go suck some more immigrant dick to atone for your ancestors not being useless cucks like you, Jean-Pierre le Fagotte.

>>2492314
fagget, you meant invaded and exploited by French?

>>2502542
>>2502642
France was already France before Charlemagne, this has already been discussed numerous times. There is absolutely no justification for inventing a distinction other than hurt German feelings.

>>2502820
>modern scholars believe that the Belgae were a firmly Celtic-speaking group.[15][16][17][18]

>not even German
That just makes your butthurt ramblings even more pathetic.

>>2504840
None of those countries existed before France created them.

>>2504835
>As a result everyone in the world believes the British invented the modern world, while the French are seen as nothing but worthless pretentious cowardly surrender monkeys, and will most likely be forgotten by history.

Nothing to do with attitude, the average Frenchman and Britbong are equally arrogant
The main difference lies in how the current cultural superpower (America) sees (and therefore depicts) them

Since the 2003 Iraq War, France is extremely hated in America, so anything about them is removed from cultural products (movies, series, video games...) as Americans are the main audience
It's for exemple the reason why France was purpotedly exculded from the big AAA WW1 game that came out recently despite being the main allied nation

Meanwhile, Britain was America's enemy in one of the two big overrated wars in American history (Revolutionary War and WW2) which thus earns them respect and love by murricans (just like Germany, and especially Nazi Germany, are loved in the US).

>>2501913
>France conquering Portugal
No.

>>2500993
Angloucks BTFO once again

>>2505747
>the average Frenchman and Britbong are equally arrogant
lol no. Compare British media with French media for example.

The rest of what you said is also true. But French people are incredibly self-hating, while Brits are often extremely arrogant.

>>2505858
For fuck's sake man it's not hard to look this shit up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Portugal_(1807)