Why did Christianity stop emphasizing women's subordinate role?

Christianity become subordinate to rationality.

>>2455385
But women being subordinate is rationality. "Muh egalitarianism of the genders" is irrational.

>>2455383
feminism

>>2455392

Is it? Why so?

>>2455383
Actually that only started years after the religion started. The first Christians allowed women to become priests and give mass.

>>2455385

But rationality, like Christianity, prescribes an immanently subordinate role for women. It is a peculiarity of today that the modern secular west takes its own lifeways as being indicative of "objective" rationality, when they are such a recent development.

Perhaps what you instead mean to say is that Christianity became subordinate to a very peculiar sort of irrationality, promulgated by the modern secular west not as a rationality-as-such, but merely as a reaction against those components of Christianity which were judged to be unpleasant, oppressive, and so on.

Take women's suffrage in the United States. It is still a local social experiment that is less than one hundred years old. In this respect, it is not far behind gay marriage, in the grand scheme of things, and if one wanted to be spicy (yet stil hide a kernel of truth in one's rhetoric), then one could describe women's suffrage as a wacky social experiement which hasn't gone on for long.

Take one good scan of the dates at this timeline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage#Timeline

Notice how the dates all cluster around the mid-twentieth century, with totally insignificant outliers (Isle of man, Corsica for a time before it joined France). Isn't it interesting how all-of-a-sudden, just recently, we became so enlightened as to allow women to directly participate in the political process? I am very happy that we finally figured out the right way to govern ourselves, all of a few decades ago.

Some protestant sects might be following state ideology on the issue, but for the most part it never did.

>>2455438

Feels over reals god I hate liberalism so much

>>2455385
*to Jewish interests

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>>2455785

This

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>>2455438
You talk about rationality but all you do is blow hot air

The cold, hard rational truth is that technologies which took the burden out of domestic duties lead to women spending most of their day in idle leisure, which lead to them pursuing interests, which lead to them demanding greater access to the wider economy as these interests grew into dreams and a desire for careers. Any attempt to put this cat back in the back would be to essentially sentence half of the human population to house arrest, which would probably impoverish the lot of them as conditions for a large number of working class people necessitate both parents working and making income, and what happens to women whose husbands run out on them? Are they condemned to starvation or under the table prostitution because they're unable to find work?

Yes, this is a recent development, but what's also a recent development is that 90% of the human population are no longer illiterate starving impoverished subsistence farmers. The great acceleration (which started in 1750 and continues to the present day) is unprecedented in human history, a truly profound upheaval which is producing change at a rate that is very difficult for some people to adapt to, so they fall behind and long for a simpler period when life wasn't complicated. The truth is that all societies are transitional societies in a continuous state of flux, and a golden age is a moment in history where there is nobody left to tell you how much things sucked.

Pic semi-related: in the Italian city-states period/early Republican period men and women were depicted side by side. Yes, women were subordinate to their fathers under pater familias but so were men, and women were able and expected to run their husbands business while he was at war, a dramatically different outlook from Greeks. It wasn't until Augustus (i.e. the start of their degenerate era) that the first laws specifically restricting and punishing the behavior of women were passed

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>>2455989

We could easily go back to the 1950s-many women stayed at home but hung out with friends, read, painted etc.

The man got the house taken care of and a wife that looked up to him. The woman got taken care of and could basically have fun her whole life.

Now both parents work, the woman shits out one kid at 36 and goes to work so she can earn money to pay someone else to take care of the kid.

Progress!

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>>2455392
>>2455438
Hume's Law you faggots. Rationality can only tell you what is true, not what roles you should assign to people in your society.

Technically, in parts of the world, it still does. I'd say, even in the south of America women have a subordinate role, let alone all those African countries we converted.

>>2456107

Wtf I love South America now

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>>2455383
because feminists demonize roles as oppressive, when roles have nothing to do with equality. Actual equality would involve allowing the roles to be swapped in certain circumstances. But feminists aren't interested in equality. It's a supremacy movement.

>>2456115
I think they meant THE south. Like all the bible belt and stuff. Idk, I'm not American. It's probably like that in South America too though.

>>2456123
But you have guys with signs saying that they need it because they love getting fucked by their GF's strap on.

>>2456107
>>2456132
fun fact

the bible belt has the highest rate of divorce in america

>>2456132

Not really. Even the most traditional girl here still wants to work for 10 years on her career. I don't think I've met one who explicitly believes she should follow her husband etc but believe me I wish.

>>2456143
Like I said, I'm not American. Pure conjecture, and trying to clarify what I think someone else meant.

Divorce rates don't automatically equate to women being in control though, do they?

>>2456147
I was just guessing what that other guy meant. I have no idea.

Nothing wrong with wanting a career-it's probably sensible in this economic climate.

>>2456155

I literally despise the fact that my gf works. I'm a total penny pincher and we're on track to be millionaires by 35 but I think women irrevocably lost part of their femininity when they went to work.

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>>2456077
>We could easily go back to the 1950s-many women stayed at home but hung out with friends, read, painted etc.

You're describing conditions immediately after the New Deal, when the tax rate on upper incomes was %90, when unions and regulations kept corporations in check and from consuming too large a portion of their industry, when productivity gains were still flowing into the pockets of the American working class, the most egalitarian society history has yet produced.

In these conditions women didn't need to work, so most didn't.

The problem was not women entering the work force, the problem has been movement away from these New Deal era policies and toward neoliberal policies which favor those who are already in possession of wealth. stagnating wages combined with rising costs of living are forcing women to stay in the labor pool longer simply to help keep food in their children's stomachs.

Restricting their ability to work isn't going to address the core problem.

>>2456201
Your poor girlfriend. Why don't you find someone more compatible, rather than despise the person you're going out with?

You're free to think that all you want, but you're being unfair on her.

>>2455385
Rationality is irrelevant.

Jews and cultural Marxism

>>2456293
Irrelevance does not imply nonexistence.

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>>2455383
>it's an /r9k/ thread

>>2456093
how can anyone be this retarded is beyond me

>>2456306
It's irrelevant [to Christianity]

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>>2456201
>I literally despise the fact that my gf works

You're the worst type of person. I hope your gf cheats on you with someone who isn't some beta loser and that you will raise his children while oblivious of their origin.

>>2456335
That's not rationality being spoken of.

>>2456077
That version of the 1950s never actually existed.

>>2456308
Sure thing schlomo

>>2456334

Oy vet how dare these goyim try to escape a (((career)))

>>2456243

>it's a FDR shill

Just lmao

>>2455989
>a golden age is a moment in history where there is nobody left to tell you how much things sucked.
Reminds me of something, but I don't remember what.

>>2456513
>>>/pol/
>>>/b/

>>2456092
300 or so years later and people still continue to derive an ought from an is.

>>2455392
>Irrational
Why is it rational to make hinder societies progress in economics and academic achievement by keeping 50% of the population in bondage.

If you want to make a developing country richer and more developed, improve the status of women. It means you have a lot less economically dependant people, basically.

>>2456606

That's right goy send your women into work; destroy the traditional family and your birth rates for me. You'll get the new iPhone!

>>2456654
Now provide an actual argument.

>>2456654
back to your containment board

>>2456679
Lowering the birth rate below replacement means that a civilization is on the way out in the long run regardless of its current economic success.

Encouraging the majority of women away from being wives and mothers naturally lowers the birth rate, as does birth control. You can claim this is simply a form of progress, but the reality is that in fifty years when the overwhelming majority of the world population is made up of people from cultures which are viewed as a thousand times more patriarchal then a Mormon wet-dream, this women's liberation thing will be regarded with a bit of sick humor.

I'm all for letting women be scientists and business professionals and the like, but the unavoidable darwinian reality of demographics is not something we can ignore entirely, especially not if we're wanting to be a pseudo-democratic society.

>>2456679
>>2456682

>Lmao your civilization is literally dying but why u mad xDD???

>>2456708
Women aren't "encouraged" to not be wives or mothers. Thats just it, they aren't encouraged in any particular at all. Also if part of your reasoning for enforcing a patriarchal society is that you are concerned that not doing so will result in a patriarchal society, then your reasoning is circular.
Besides, the liberalization of women is convergent throughout the world. Western countries were once oppressive and patriarchal and now not so much. It's just a matter of time before different cultures acclimate to the same cultural shifts.

>>2456708

But the birth rate hasn't dropped below replacement in any western country, I think only Korea and Japan have this as an issue.

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>>2456759

Fuck off shill

>>2456747

>muh oppression

Yeah I'm so glad we can live in this Progressive Society Free of Hate (TM)

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>>2456747

Also the media/society shots on housewives/women in the home constantly

>media pushing strong career wymyn
>lol settle down? That's boring
>how do we get more women in X?
>Ten Reasons Why It's awesome Being Single
etc

Step it up Crew

The Nazis unironically should have won

>>2456815
Wow, that's a retarded map. Just post the replacement rates instead.

>>2456747
>Also if part of your reasoning for enforcing a patriarchal society is that you are concerned that not doing so will result in a patriarchal society, then your reasoning is circular.

No, my argument is that patriarchy is inevitable because it leads to higher reproduction and therefore a more successful civilization, and if patriarchy is going to exist anyway it should rather be a western benign patriarchy instead of a brutal muslim one.

>>2455383
It is still a big thing in third world countries. Not sure what it has to do with Christianity as such.

Next time I hear some slutty "Christian" roastie complain
>ugh Islam is so oppressive to women for making them wear headscarves!!!!! amirite Becky???
I'm going to snap. Modern-day """"Christians"""" literally think that the sexual revolution has always been a thing and can't be assed to read the Bible and know that Christianity has the same exact rules as Islam does

>>2456606
Women don't make things progress though. They had to dumb down education and employment to make it conform to the needs of women.

>>2456747
>muh oppression
>muh patriarchy
Do you people still believe in that shit?

And yes, having children before age 30 is seen as weird in Western society. And God forbid a girl in her prime reproductive age (16-21) gets pregnant, that means her life is ruined forever and the baby MUST be aborted.

>>2457098
What gave you the idea that religion has anything to do with religious texts?

>>2457103
Women graduate from college more than men do. Also they wouldn't have dumbed down employment because that doesn't make economic sense.

>>2457142
College is demonstrably less rigorous than it was in the past. And women tend to "succeed" because of affirmative action.

>>2457161
More men should pass if it is easier.

>>2457161
Demonstrate it then

>>2455383
It didn't the west just stopped being Christian.

>>2456077

Yeah, you can start by living by example by making enough money to support an entire family by yourself while your wife does''t work and spends your money.

Don't blame women if the "men" are inadequate.

>>2457455

It's almost like there was a societal event that halved the value of a mans labor and doubled the pool...

>>2455383

>all these butthurt ledditors are shocked that someone thinks women shouldn't waste their life in schlomo's company

>>2456201
thats fucking retarded

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>>2456511
>>2456499
>tfw /pol/ will NEVER be a successful containment board

>>2458514
The labor pool didn't get doubled as women were already working (in formal employment) before the 60s, just not to the same extent.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300002

It climbed from around 35-40% in 1960 to 55-60% today.

That's only an increase of 20-25% to its peak and 15-20% to the present.

Men declined in their participation rate from ~85% in 1960 to 70% today, or around 15%.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001

Therefor the increase in the female participation rate was roughly matched by the decrease in the male participation rate.

The idea that women didn't work at all before the 1960s is a myth.

Not to mention women generally had harder lives regarding household care with less of the amenities of the present available, so their non-formal employment was more taxing (although the double-burden of regular work and housework does continue to exist today ofc).

>>2457207
Men go into harder fields.

>50's
>women are traditional housewives
>be happy and fulfilled

>now
>women have more "rights" and "opportunities" than ever
>they are unhappy and depressed

Daily reminder that Feminism goes against nature and biology.

The woman is naturally a caretaker of the kids and housewife.

The man is naturally a builder and laborer.

>>2455799
Increased female employment actually corresponds to higher fertility nowadays (ie. post 1970s) so ironically they might have done something to raise US fertility...

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>>2456815
This is a shit map as others have said, TFR is a much better way to look at it since a 2.1 TFR is replacement rates.

It is true that the other anon is wrong though, TFR generally is below replacement in most western countries.

But those countries which are below replacement rate also tend to be the most conservative with the lowest female employment rates and the least assistance for them when they work (such as Germany for the latter), so it doesn't really prove you point.

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>>2458550
>human nature
Spooky also>>2456092

Feminism is just another symptom of a mentally ill godless society.

You can thank atheism for the normalization of:
>Homosexuality
>Transvestites
>Gay """""""Marriage"""""""
>LGBQTBBCABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP movement
>Social "Justice" Warriors
>Abortion (murder of innocent babies)
>Moral Relativism (bro just do whatever u want, it's all relative ;^)
>dude baphomet, man is girl, girl is man, lmao

C.S. Lewis and Albert Mohler have warned us about this. As Bible-believing Christians we have to stand steadfast against the hordes of irrational God-hating leftists.

Women are not equal to man, this is just retarded. There are biological differences. Women are weaker and this is why they gravitate towards care-taking jobs like nurses, as
>>2458550
said.

Liberals like to demonize and pretend the traditional housewife is something to be ashamed of, when it's not. It's the same reason they also demonize masculinity and fatherhood.

Liberals (let's be honest, Communists) want to destroy the Family fabric because that is where the building block of a nation is. Once you destroy the family, it's all about the state. That's what Commies want, big government intruding in our life, telling us how to live and what to think.

Here is an excellent philosophical video on the topic of Sexual Morality and house roles by C.S. Lewis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RkZXZx6HCI

>>2458589
Not an argument.

>>2458549
So what you're saying is that STEM classes are still hard which means women attending college doesn't even matter because you just have to choose the right field.

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>>2458550
>Daily reminder that Feminism goes against nature and biology.
Daily reminder that humans prefer freedom over a gilded cage.

We've been fighting what is "natural" since we first started building fires and painting on cave walls.

And if you're an obese, socially inept, psychologically arrested manbaby, demanding that society provide you with a qt3.14 wife like what you see in all that porn you waste your life masturbating too is the height of an entitlement complex.

>>2458591
>t.cleetus buttblasted because he can't use his bible to beat his wife when she complains about him spending his paycheck on beer and video games instead of diapers

>>2458618
>prefer freedom over a gilded cage
Can I have the freedom to rape your daughter and slit her throat?

Do you know how the world would look like if everybody just acted on their impulses and instincts without self-control?

>we first started building fires and painting on cave walls
Oh, you're an evolutionist. Credibility lost.

>>2458538

Go back a little bit further to around 1900.

Anyways women didn't have careers or higher ed for the most part-they worked an odd job, got knocked up and then stayed home. Employers used to not hire women because they would get jobs looking for men to marry.

>>2458550
>>2458591

Thanks brothers

>>2458618

Just proves once again that most atheists are really just rebelling against the idea of a code of conduct

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>>2458631
>Can I have the freedom to rape your daughter and slit her throat?
That's not freedom, that's the opposite of freedom: that's demanding that somebody else sacrifice their freedom just because you lack the impulse control to function properly in civil society.

>Do you know how the world would look like if everybody just acted on their impulses and instincts without self-control?
You mean like the impulse to suppress the self-agency of women in a mad rush to justify why you're still a fat, kissless loser with no social skills?

>Oh, you're an evolutionist. Credibility lost.
Oh, I see facts and data doesn't work on you. Thanks for clarifying, cletus.

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>>2458652
>It's a fact in my mind!

lol

>>2458643
Catholic, actually. Nature is something we are in the process of overcoming.

And the ones rebelling against the idea of a code of conduct are all the Nazi-wannabes who can't handle a society where we let women have jobs and take care of themselves if that's the life they wish to lead.

>>2458656
All of those hoaxes were exposed and discredited by scientists and journalists, not bible-thumpers and brown-shirts

>>2458672
Creationist scientists and journalists.

>>2458639
The 1950s is widely viewed as the golden age of men working and women staying at home. I showed this was wrong, there is no need to go back to 1900 as every comparison every done assumes 1950 as the baseline. You're simply raising points which are irrelevant concerning objections to this, this is the labor participation rate, this demonstrates how much women worked in the formal economy. It can be factually proven that women's participation was already extensive long before the 1960s.

>>2458681
lol Jesus you're a fucking idiot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man#Exposure
>In November 1953, Time magazine published evidence gathered variously by Kenneth Page Oakley, Sir Wilfrid Edward Le Gros Clark and Joseph Weiner proving that the Piltdown Man was a forgery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Oakley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfrid_Le_Gros_Clark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Weiner

Look at all those legitimate scientists doing real research with not a Bible in sight!

>>2458695
Scientists alive today who accept the biblical account of creation:

Dr Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr James Allan, Geneticist
Dr Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
Dr Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
Dr Markus Blietz, Astrophysicist
Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr Robert W. Carter, Zoology (Marine Biology and Genetics)
Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering

>>2458704
Dr Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Dr Bob Compton, DVM
Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
Dr Edward Elmer, Orthopedic surgery specialist (Harvard Medical School graduate)
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology

>>2458706
Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr Paul Giem, Medical Research
Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
Dr Tim Gilmour, Electrical Engineer
Dr Duane Gish, Biochemist
Dr Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
Dr D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
Dr Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
Dr Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
Dr Barry Harker, Philosopher
Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
Dr John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
Dr Mark Harwood, Satellite Communications
Dr Joe Havel, Botanist, Silviculturist, Ecophysiologist
Dr George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineer
Dr Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science

>>2458707
Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr George F. Howe, Botany
Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
Dr Russell Humphreys, Physicist
Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
Dr Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Dr Felix Konotey-Ahulu, Physician, leading expert on sickle-cell anemia
Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry

>>2458709
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Dr John G. Leslie, biochemistry, molecular biology, medicine, biblical archaeology
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
Dr Alan Love, Chemist
Dr Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
Dr George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
Dr John McEwan, Chemist
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr David Menton, Anatomist
Dr Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr John Meyer, Physiologist
Dr Albert Mills, Reproductive Physiologist, Embryologist
Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
Dr John N. Moore, Science Educator
Dr John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
Dr Henry M. Morris, Hydrologist
Dr John D. Morris, Geologist
Dr Len Morris, Physiologist
Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
Dr David Oderberg, Philosopher

>>2458710
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
Dr David Pace, Organic Chemistry
Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
Prof. Richard Porter
Dr Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
Dr Albert E. Pye, invertebrate zoology, biotechnology, biological control (1945–2012)
Dr John Rankin, Cosmologist
Dr A.S. Reece, M.D.
Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr David Rosevear, Chemist
Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr John Sanford, Geneticist
Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
Dr Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
Dr Ian Scott, Educator

>>2458712
Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
Dr Roger Simpson, Engineer
Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
Dr E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
Dr Andrew Snelling, Geologist
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
Dr Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
Dr Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
Dr Keith Wanser, Physicist
Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
Dr Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist (1923–2012)
Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
Dr Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineer
Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr Henry Zuill, Biology

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>>2458704
>>2458706
>>2458707
>>2458709
>>2458710
>>2458712
>>2458715
b-but they're not real scientists!

t. fedora

>>2458722
First of all, you do realize that there are hundreds of thousands of scientists alive so if that's the most exhaustive list you can come up with, it's pretty fucking paltry.

You can be a Christian and accept evolutionary theory, and acknowledge the allegorical nature of biblical creation. The overwhelming majority of the scientific community accepts evolution as the dominant scientific theory of biological diversity.

http://nihrecord.nih.gov/newsletters/2006/07_28_2006/story03.htm
>99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution

>https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District/4:Whether_ID_Is_Science#Page_83_of_139
>Before discussing Defendants’ claims about evolution, we initially note that an overwhelming number of scientists, as reflected by every scientific association that has spoken on the matter, have rejected the ID proponents’ challenge to evolution. Moreover, Plaintiffs’ expert in biology, Dr. Miller, a widely-recognized biology professor at Brown University who has written university-level and highschool biology textbooks used prominently throughout the nation, provided unrebutted testimony that evolution, including common descent and natural selection, is “overwhelmingly accepted” by the scientific community and that every major scientific association agrees. (1:94-100 (Miller)). As the court in Selman explained, “evolution is more than a theory of origin in the context of science. To the contrary, evolution is the dominant scientific theory of origin accepted by the majority of scientists.” Selman, 390 F. Supp. 2d at 1309 (emphasis in original).

>>2458704
Do you know how many scientists there are in the world?
This isn't even one percent. This is a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a percent or some figure like that.
These people could all be nutjobs, and a majority aren't even in biology or relevant sciences. Why should I care what Dr David Orderberg, a philosopher, has to say about the matter, or the guys in nuclear engineering, architecture engineering, mathematics, food scientist, industrial chemist, an assistant professor of education, ancient historian, ELECTRICAL ENGINEER, a fucking dentist or a psychologist.
I also like the guy who is a "creationist archaeologist" or the "biblical archaelogy" fellow.

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>>2458766
>>2458770

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>>2458672

>Papism

Just lmao

>>2458770
Archeological discoveries point towards creation and a global flood, so of course people become Christians after looking at the evidence.

>Creationists
Look where the evidence leads them to.
>Evolutionists
Dogmatically believe what has been drilled into their heads since childhood.

>>2458775
>HURR LOOK AT HOW MANY SCIENTISTS ARE CREATIONISTS!
>gets BTFO
>m-muh liberal establishment!

back to your containment board, cletus

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>>2458782
That's literally christ-like behavior, which is more than what can be said about proddies

>>2458789
>Point to hoaxes that started theory of evolution
>Guy claims scientists did that
>Tell him it was creationist scientists
>Guy gives random wikipedia links
>I dump a list of creationist links

Stay mad, monkey.

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ITT: atheists getting REKT

>>2458783
>Archeological discoveries point towards creation and a global flood,
You're talking out of your ass at this point

>>2458794
>I dump a list of creationist links
A small, shitty list filled with quacks and unrelated disciplines which doesn't even account for a tiny fraction of the total scientific community

you got BTFO. Face it cletus.

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>>2458796
>congratulating himself

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>>2458797
Trying to find the argument in your post. Nope, can't find it.

Post discarded.

>>2455419
No, they didn't.

I think you're mixing it up with the role of female deacons (a role that was abolished), but they never administered the same sacraments as priests.

>>2458799
Because at this point you're basically shiposting and made it clear from the beginning that you don't care about being factually correct.

Unless you have a link proving the "archaeological" evidence that the world is 6,000 years old and far younger than the gasoline you pump into your gas tank every day.

>>2458806
You're the one shitposting, retard.

>MUH MILLIONS OF YEARS!
>MUH GRANDPA WAS A MONKEY
>Ignoring the fact evolution has been debunked

You are mentally ill. This discussion is over.

>>2455392
This mentality is why so many of you will only have your lubricated-hand as a companion.

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>>2458812
>>Ignoring the fact evolution has been debunked
And yet another assertion from you without a single shred of evidence backing it up
>if it can be asserted without evidence it can be rejected without evidence

stay mad, cletus.

>>2455383
>Christianity
thats a modern invention. a deviant, cucked version of the superior, original form.

you meant Catholicism. say it as it is, you mong.

>>2458775
>Posts a bunch of scientists with no relevance to the subject at hand and gets told why this doesn't work
>This is a liberal consensus field!
If I posted a philosopher and said that they agreed that the sun orbits the earth then I have in no way advanced my argument, as a philospher is not relevant to the subject.

>>2458783
He isn't an archaeologist, he's a "creationist archaeologist" or a "biblical archaelogist". They're not looking at facts, they're trying to invent facts to fit their narrative.

Also I like that "archeological discoveries point towards creation" without any back up for that, despite that flying in the face of even the most elementary notions of geology and archeology that we can observe throughout the world such as layers, erosion, river systems, so on and so forth.

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>>2455383
All religions need to stay relevent in a fast changing world.
The original bible had no mention of homosexuality, this was changed when 'the kings james' bible was written and that clause, specifically, was added so that he could call someone a queer and say its against gods will and have them killed for being a heathen.
That is also why lesbianism IS NOT in the bible, women seldom held positions of power and even if you wanted a woman dead, just call her a witch and have her drowned.

When the world wars occoured a lot of men when off to die and if women remainded just a submissive baby maker then most modern nations (yours included OP) would have simply self destructed. As women were sent to do the jobs there were no longer enough men to do, they earned money. Smart capitalists realized that if both men AND women work, you have twice as many customers!
Realistically speaking, this is probably the only time in recorded history outside of scams where the number of potential customers DOUBLED on a long term basis in such a short span of time.

If you even read all of this then you will most likely live in a capitalist society. Running a church is also 100% NOT FREE and churches like all buisnesses LIKE MONEY.

Religion has never been about enlightenment and has always been about making money and/or control. If you believe in God then why do you even need to go to church or dedicate yourself to any one religion? Most people who believe in god claim he is all knowing and all powerful and if we assume that to be true then religion itself offers nothing. God will know who the true sinners are from the true believers and sort it out himself.

TL:DR Religion = Capitalism != belief in god.

>>2458837
You are so dumb it hurts.

>>2458851
you sure told him anon.
[spoiler]admit defeat and call him a faggot instead it has a 100% success rate[/spoiler]

>>2458851
A brilliant argument

>>2458842
Religion is not specifically tied to capitalism. It is a tool to maintain the economic-political cohesion of a society, not necessarily a capitalist one. In fact as far as capitalism is concerned it is an ill-fitting tool. It works much better in pre-capitalist societies. I also expect a successful socialist/communist society to have a religion of sort (but not necessarily God).

>>2458873
A fair point. I wouldn't say it is ill fitting since many religions also call for charitable donations which lets face it, is spreading money from one source to another, but religion is flexible and can work with or without capitalism. Maybe thats its charm.

>>2458792

>actively help turn Europe into a Muslim continent
>Christ like behavior

>>2458898
There are more verses about being welcoming to foreigners than there are verses which condemn homosexuality.

>Deuteronomy 10: 19 You shall love the stranger, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt.
>Leviticus 19:34 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
>Matt. 5:43-44 You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you.
>Romans 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbour, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
>Romans 12:13 Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers.
>Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
>3 John 1:5 Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the friends, even though they are strangers to you; they have testified to your love before the church. You do well to send them on in a manner worthy of God; for they began their journey for the sake of Christ, accepting no support from non-believers. Therefore we ought to support such people, so that they may become co-workers with the truth.
>Hebrews 13: 1 Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it.
>Colossians 3:11 In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all.
>Matthew 25: 35 I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
>Matt. 25:40 Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of my brethren you did it to me.

Note the word stranger/neighbor/foreigner are all used interchangeably.

It lost an evolutionary game
/thread

>>2459020
evolution doesn't exist

>>2458898
>>2459006

You're still supposed to preach to migrants though. Simply welcoming them is a recipe for failure.

>>2458593
Do you know what a spook is? Your post was never an argument to begin with

>>2459070
Spouting memes is not a substitute for argument.

>>2459049
>You're still supposed to preach to migrants though. Simply welcoming them is a recipe for failure.
Then why aren't you? Is it because they live in impoverished ghettos detached from wider society?

>>2459077
So is appealing to ideas like human nature and holding it scared, immutable and irrefutable

>>2455989
>a truly profound upheaval
false
humans are hedonistic, always have been, always will be

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>>2459085

So how many Syrian doctors and engineers have you invited into your home?

>muh ghettos

More like it's because they're fucking savages who shouldnt be here in the first place. It's pretty obvious you've internalized the cuck "everything is our fault" mindset

>>2459096
>The Laws of Nature
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_20yiBQAIlk

>Mere Christianity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_VYCqCexow

>The Origin (or 1,2,3,4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9biRRv_bM

>‘Right & Wrong’ – A Clue to the Meaning of the Universe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmHXYhpEDfM

>The Reality of the Moral Law
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqsAzlFS91A

>What Lies Behind the Moral Law
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRFYGr1zcg

>The Poison of Subjectivism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgcd6jvsCFs

>The Rival Conceptions of God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaGwF7A79_w

>The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxwnHVr192A

>Why I Am Not a Pacifist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2xY2k26HFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jreq3mVvDgc

>Bulverism (Foundation of 20th Century Thought)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH53uFBOGbw

>The Necessity of Chivalry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBT9LasyC3E

>The Three Parts of Morality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTeCyrgjIQ

>Sexual Morality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RkZXZx6HCI

Morality is objective, deal with it.

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>>2459119
>mfw he can't argue for shit and wants me to consume his bite-sized, dumbed down spooky propangda
Now this is not an argument

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>>2459135
>

>>2459105
That picture makes the border-hopping Mexicans look like the good guys coming to liberate the USA from niggers, Muslims, communists and cuckservatives.

>>2459141
>look like the good guys

they always were anon, they always were!
[spoiler] now let me cuck your wife! [/spoiler]

>>2459140
Still not an argument senpai. I would be disgusted by the hypocrisy but that is just par for the course when arguing with /pol/fags

>>2459135
not him but ur a hypocrite.

youre the one who didn't argue, just posted "spook" and le man-with-glasses meme. no argument whatsoever. atleast the other guy backs up his claims

>>2459141

t. ¡Jeb!

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There is only one solution to stopping the break down of traditional values and roles for women and sexes and it is not Christianity.

It is the break down and revolt from the technological society.

ANTI-TECHNOLOGY REVOLUTION NOW!

>>2459167
Calling something a spook means you reject the premise of his argument. He seems to think human nature is something that holds authority and uses it to make his arguement. I don't.

>>2459195
>Facts don't hold authority

Spookposters confirmed for shitposters.

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>>2459208
>deriving an ought from might not even be an is
I share >>2456092's pain

>>2459208
Human nature is such a vague and meaningless term that it shouldn't be used as an argument, empirical facts should be brought out instead.

>>2459100
Do you even know what The Great Acceleration is? It's the rapid expansion of industrialization and population growth as humans begin to use fossil fuels. It's simply unprecedented.

>>2459119
Why does anyone expect other people to watch hours of retarded YouTube videos?

If you have a point, make it yourself, right in this thread, not force others to watch that crap and try to guess what the fuck you were trying to tell us.

>>2455383
They thought becoming more liberal would get people back in church but it only drives the devoted away.

There's a good reason millions of western women are converting to Islam. Subconsciously they want to go back to that submissive role they've had throughout all human history.

Islam will dominate the world.

>>2460700

iA...but yeah it's crazy how many women subconsciously have that submissive desire. Gets my dock diamonds too.

>tfw no pure wife that is dependent on you and thinks she's inferior

>>2460700
>millions of western women are converting to Islam

Going to need a source for that claim.

>Islam will dominate the world.

No it won't. It's not even a contest between Islamic states and western ones. Islamic states survive on western pity, if that ever turns to wrath they are hopelessly lost. Imagine if the US military fought Isis like they did the Japanese, simply fire bombing everything without regard to civilians. Even without nuclear weapons they alone could burn the entire Islamic world down in a few months.

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>>2458820

>>2460817
Soon the there will be no difference between the Islamic states and western ones. Are you western inbred pig eaters going to nuke yourself?

haha wake up. The battle of civilizations that has been going on for over a millennia is over. You lost white boy. Accept your place under superior Arabic peoples.

We won't be to harsh on you. Promise :D

>>2460935
Virgin detected

>>2458801
Valentinians drew straws for who would conduct service and it would alternate at every gathering.
They should implement a system like this in a church with the regular baptized members with a prohibitionary period when after having engaged sexual intercourse or having had seminal or menstrual discharge like is done in the Ethiopian Church.

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>>2461082
> virgin shaming in 4chan

kys normie

>>2461030
/pol/ bait doesn't work on /his/

>>2461082
Normie detected

>>2461198
>h-heh it's j-just a meme
>he doesn't r-really mean it

>>2461198

France is like 15% Muslim atm

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>>2455383
Decentralized forms of Christianity are quick to be shaped by cultural trends.

simple answer is that as culture changed many people began interpreting some passages of the bible as descriptive/prescriptive only for the churches addressed, and began moving towards a more egalitarian interpretation.

whether or not it's bullshit is another matter

>>2458782
>>2458898

Literally go back to your shitty containment board.

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>>2462042

Leftypol pls go

>>2459141
Wow, you're right.

>>2456350
Oh, but YOUR dystopian version did?

When we discovered that Testosterone can make our voices deep and turn our clitotis into a small penis.

>>2463113
I never said it was dystopian. When people don't like whatever era they live in they tend to ignore the bad parts of the past. It was a good time to live if you were white and middle class with no aspirations beyond a quite life in the suburbs.

>>2455383
Because you can't have two or more masters and be a good servant. The only master Christianity approves of is God.

>>2458631

>Oh, you're an evolutionist.

wtf is an evolutioniust

>>2461582
How come that isn't an issue with a faith as decentralised as Islam ?

Also by your logic shouldn't orthodoxy have more cultural changes than Catholicism ?

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>>2463170

Aka what 90% of people want?

The reason tumblrtards hate the 50s so much is that they can only exist in the atomized, hyper individualistic society we have today. Any other time they'd get called freaks and be outcasts. Most people aren't down with landwhale blue haired dykes

>>2463318
Someone who believes in "millions of years" and monkey-to-man mythology.

>>2463659
And that is bad becauseeeeeeeee?

I don't think a 4chan of all places gets to claim that high ground

>>2458812
god i hope you're pretending to be retarded

>>2463659
>Aka what 90% of people want?
That's a gross exaggeration. While everyone wants to live comfortably, in my experience, most people want some form of meaning to their life beyond just existing comfortably. They tend to find it in things like hobbies, work, and volunteering.

>>2463659
>The reason tumblrtards hate the 50s so much is that they can only exist in the atomized, hyper individualistic society we have today. Any other time they'd get called freaks and be outcasts. Most people aren't down with landwhale blue haired dykes
>not wanting to live life your way makes you a freak
You know what everyone wants? Self-determination. Even women.

I see you don't seem to care that if we returned to the fifties that the poor and minorities would live much shittier lives. Let me guess, "Fuck you, got mine?"

>>2464007

They lived objectively better lives if we look at things like divorce statistics, unemployment and crime.

>being on 4chan
>caring about niggers