Post yfw when you hear stupid shit about history

>everyone in ancient Greece was gay

>We Wuz

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>America - two time world war champs!

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>the Islamic golden age didn't exist

>>2358621
>when you realise that the bellum Gallicum was a genocide executed by a man who only did this to increase his political influence in his home country

>Religion in Medieval times interfered with the progress of science

>>2358660
>Gauls
>humans

>>2358621
>history is written by victors.

>>2358667
See, that is what I call evil: no respect for the lives of humans

>>2358681
pfft faggot

>>2358621
>The Romans were evil
>empire that lived of brutal conquest and slavery
>not evil
Gee, anon how could something say something like that.
>In4 good and evil are spooks hurrr
So can I kill you, rape your relatives and burn down your house then, right?

>This one specific reason that just so happens to confirm my political beliefs is the reason the Roman empire fell

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>>2358621
>evil exists

>>2358686
edgelord

>>2358666
How is that not true?

>>2358687
>Forgetting that the Gauls raped and killed when they sacked Rome
>Not thinking that if the shoe was on the other foot, the Gauls/Germanics/Iberians wouldn't do the same.
Gee, anon how could you think that only certain humans are evil.

>>2358677
But it is

>>2358687
Might makes right, niggah. Morality is not something for Empires or nations, but individual peoples.

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>China was ruled by foreigners for most of its history

>>2358666
>those digits
Don't trust the Antichrist

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>>2358621
>Nazi Germany economy was efficient
>Barbarossa was a pre-emptive strike
>Hitler wanted peace and it was the ANGLO who wanted war
>EISENHOWER KILLED 1 MILLION GERMANS! THE REAL HOLOCAUST OF WW2!

>>2358707
I didn't say others are innocent.
Most of humanity is shit.

>>2358723
Sorry about that. However, I still stand on my "If someone's got power, you're going to get fucked" stance.

>>2358687
God I hate those damn Romans! They were only group in history evil enough to wage war!

>>2358706
during the first part of the midle ages the catholic church was the only institution that provided that provided intellectuals with the means for living. what set back science was not religion but political instability, plagues, the de-urbanitzation of europe, lack of a reliable scientific method and the collapse of trade

>>2358666
Fuck off Satan, it didn't kill it as the muslims kept advancing all throughout but it did interfere heavily.

>all slavs/arabs are genetically same peoples, with same culture

>>2358764
This. Science continued to advance in other ways as well desu

>>2358764
The church also anathematized some literature and intellectuals. Religion was a primary motivator in closing down the philosophical schools in Athens in the late classical period, and they were behind the destruction of a bunch of philosophical works that couldn't be spun in a Christian light. Arguably Christians were behind the murder of Hypatia for religious reasons, and one of the burnings of the library of Alexandria.

I don't think the church was the anti-thought monster it's portrayed as, but I also don't think they were the enlightened good boys that their apologists like to portray them as.

>>2358706

Because it just isn't. It's made up fantasy with no bearing on the actual historical record. The RENAISSANCE is when things took a step backwards, with people ignoring their forefathers advancements in order to LARP as Romans and Greeks. But we're all whigs now so anything that comes after is automatically better.

>>2358711

ever hear of Polybius?

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>>2358888

What did they ignore anon?

also

>Those digits

>>2358874
You realize church doctors heavily examined and wrote about pagan philosophies and doctrines, right? They even used Greek philosophy (which heavily influenced Christian doctrine itself) to prove the faith.

>>2359032
Not that guy, but maybe you should realize you can't sum up the complexity of the influence of the Church on society during a period of several centuries on a whole continent in just a few cliches, whether positive or negative.

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>X was literally Hitler
Reductionist shit like this makes me livid
>Alexander the Great was just like Hitler cuz he killed lots of people and, like, he conquered them and yeah
>Napoleon was just like Hitler cuz he killed many and, like, he did war and such and yeah
>Every conqueror ever™ were the same because they did bad thing and killed people and stuff

>>2359054
Doesn't that validate the statement of >>2358666?

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>Ottoman Empire isnt heir of the Roman Empire
>Ottoman Empire inst third Rome

>>2359255

Rome died with the fall of Constantinople. Turkish LARPers like yourself really don't have a leg to stand on, though to be fair the Russian Empire's claim based on religion is just as invalid.

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>Aztecs were the most evil people to exist, everyone hated them for their sacrifices
>10 gorillion guys with sticks couldn't even beat 1000 steel armed guys with cannons

>>2358967
I don't know who he is but he was probably a punk bitch.

Hyper war never happend.

>>2358888
Digits nails it.

>>2358621
>United States got its ass kicked in Vietnam by retarded rice farmers
>The US dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was a horrible atrocity committed against civilian targets, and probably the worst thing they've ever done in war
>Union Army fought to free slaves in the Civil War

I could probably come up with more. This is just stuff I've heard most recently.

>>2358888
>medieval europe
>historical records

Pick 1.

>>2359062
Fucking this

Also
>Egyptians were black
>Hannibal was black
>Cleopatra was black
>Europe was always diverse (read: filled with a noticeable amount of blacks/arabs, and you know I'm not just talking about Moorish Spain)
>Shakespeare's plays were written by a black girl
>Einstein was black
etc
>Spices were popular because Europeans ate rotting/rancid food
>America was built by slaves

On the other side
>Blacks/Africans never produced any 'advanced' culture/structure/society
>Ranking societies based on their 'advancement' in general
>Africans never accomplished anything because they dumb lol

>>2359844
Also
>There's no way X group could have been able to build/do Y thing with their technology

>>2358621
Is that from City of God?

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>>2358621
>What's Prussia? Is that like Russia?

>>2358720
>>Nazi Germany economy was efficient
are there people who actually think this? I read "red storm on the Reich" and the main thing I took away was how grossly inefficient the nazis were even with Stalin kicking down their door. that and their command structure was pretty incompetent

>>2359907
>command structure

I thought Nazi Officers were alright, it was just Hitler's constant meddling with the CoC that fucked everything up.

>>2359872
Yes, Anon

>Jews should go back to Europe
>Boers should go back to Europe
>Blacks should go back to Africa
>Ulster Scots go back to Britain
Any variant of this and people who spout it are fucked

>>2360439
cuck

>>2360460
>implying a cuck would defend Afrikaners

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>>2358723
If you think humanity is shit, then fucking do something about it or kill yourself, you self-hating race traitor.

>>2358660
Implying Cisalpine Gauls didn't just invade the Averni.

> Auvergne region
> All of Gaul

>>2359877
Prussia literally ruined Germany, it's best they are forgotten

>>2360406
Cool, it was kino

>>2358621
>Romans didn't have their own religion and were all atheists until the Greeks came and they copied their religion

>>2359032
Yeah, they preserved philosophy that could be cast in a Christian light.

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>>2360551
Prussia is the reason there is a Germany.

>>2359062

Some qualify. Attila and Timur were about as bad as hitler

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>Islamic Golden Age never happened it was all Persians and Greeks and the Persians were all Zoroastrians and the Greeks were all Christians

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>The Bible is just a fairy tale and doesn't contain any history
but at the same time
>Christianity and The Bible is literally the world of God, hasn't been influenced by other religions (some even before it), and didn't adopt pagan beliefs to become more accessible

There's so much bullshit spread around about religion, I'm guaranteed to make someone angry.

>>2358621
>[entire society] was evil

>>2358641
>people in Ancient Greece/Rome were categorized as gay or straight

>>2358641
>"we/us" any time someone is referring to events that happened hundreds of years ago

>>2361202
last one is a reply to >>2358648

>Hitler did nothing wrong

He lost.

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>>2358689

>>2358713
Who the fuck even says that?

>>2361412
Manchus and Mongols desu

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>The Spaniards were evil for picking fights with stone age civilizations and winning

>>2358706
The church was actually a major proponent of science all the way up into the 1600s. It only started to become hostile when it started to disprove what the church said.

When Galileo was locked up it wasn't because he said the earth orbited the sun, it's because when the Pope asked him to write a book on it and they would consider it, Galileo basically called him a retard in said book.

>>2361192
>The Bible is just a fairy tale and doesn't contain any history
I almost had an argument in a class today, because someone brought up The Great Flood(for some fucking unknown reason) and mentioned that it was stupid and had no historical basis whatsoever which is fucking annoying because the bible isn't THE MOST historically accurate book, but considering that there is like 50 flood myths from around the Mediterranean AND geologic evidence shows that the Med. Sea used to be dry before Gibraltar broke it's really frustrating.

intellectual dishonesty is the worst fucking modern trait.

>>2361436
There's also the fact that most of the people who knew about what Galileo did wanted him killed and the Pope spared his life and let him conduct all the research he wanted from his goddamn mansion. That event is so over politicized

>>2358621
>Austria-Hungary collapsed because of multikulti
>Russia was feudal before 1917
>Spanish Inquisition was Holocaust 0.5
>Native Americans were all peaceful treehuggers and proto-hippies before white men came to the continent
>Jew, Hebrew and Israelite are synonyms
>Roman and Latin are synonyms
>any sort of retarded anachronisms ("Charlemagne was a Belgian" etc)
>there were "good guys" in WW2

I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I remember right off the bat

>>2361461
Not Mediterranean, but the Black Sea. Mesopotamian civilizations were nowhere near the Mediterranean, but the Black sea definitely underwent some gigantic fucking flooding around 7000 years ago, even the Bible mentions that Noah ended up on mount Ararat which is in fucking Armenia.

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>All wars are caused by religion

>>2359844
Some Egyptian were black.

>>2358687
>So can I kill you, rape your relatives and burn down your house then, right?

No, because it's against the morals of the current society you live in. Conquest and genocide weren't considered as morally reprehensible in the past.

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>Native Americans were more advanced than the Spanish

>>2361807
In something's they were. city sanitation, stone architecture, and maybe astrology

Other than that probably nothing

>>2359844
>>2361730
Nubian's were black, ie 2nd Egyptian Kingdom was ruled by Blacks
1st and 3rd were ruled by Egyptians, who were egyptian in ethnicity.

>>2358666
just because the churches preserved a great deal of classical knowledge doesn't mean they didn't also interfere with scientific progress

>>2361892
>Stone architecture
Have you ever been to Spain?

>>2361931
Name one documented instance in which the medieval church interfered with science. And no, Gallileo doesn't count.

>>2361933
Have you ever been to Machu Picchu?

>>2361944
Are you aware that the Inca did not build the mountains right? the only impressive part of the ruins is their location

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>Germany was ever the good guy

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>>2361807
>They agreed to work at it viribus et posse, and began at once to divide the task between them, and I must say that they worked so hard, and with such good will, that in less than four days they constructed a fine bridge, over which the whole of the men and horses passed. So solidly built it was, that I have no doubt it will stand for upwards of ten years without breaking —unless it is burnt down — being formed by upwards of one thousand beams, the smallest of which was as thick round as a man's body, and measured nine or ten fathoms in length (16.2-18m), without counting a great quantity of lighter timber that was used as planks. And I can assure your Majesty that I do not believe there is a man in existence capable of explaining in a satisfactory manner the dexterity which these lords of Tenochtitlan, and the Indians under them, displayed in constructing the said bridge: I can only say that it is the most wonderful thing that ever was seen.
- Cortes to Charles V about his expedition to present-day Honduras

>>2361892
>maybe astrology
Their calendar was more precise than the Gregorian one, which the Spaniards adopted 61 years after the fall of Tenochtitlan.

>>2361933
pic related

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>>2361807
>>2361933
In may regards they were inferior to the Old World, but certainly not in others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaLRMq8sgYM

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>>2362307

>>2359402

>I don't know how the natives were subdued the post

>>2358621
>germany is evil

>>2362332
t. Mesopoliticspro

>>2358666
Nice try, Satan.

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>>2358621
US won the Vietnam War

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>>2362491
>US won the Iraq war

>>2358621
>italy is shit at war amirite guise? xDDDD
>italy never won a war LEL!
wars since indipendence:
-war of unification: won
-war of crimea: won
-first italo-abissinian war: lost
-invasion of eritrea: won
-invasion of somalia: won
-boxer revolt: won
-italo-ottoman war: won
-WW1: won
-invasion of lybia: won
-second italo-abyssinian war: won
-WW2: debatable
-italian civil war: won
-war of korea: won
Any questions?

>>2362595
And as corollary, the myth about italy losing to a bunch of spear-wielding ethiopians, ignoring that russia armed a hundred thousand of them with bolt-action rifles and provided them with 40 pieces of artillery, thus heavily outnumbering and out-gearing the italians.

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>>2358621
>Britain was a blight on India
From a white professor to a class of Brahmin Anglophiles

>>2359947
There was a shit ton of rivalries between high command. Everyone wanted to get on Hitler's good side. You had instances where the artillery branch of high command would fuck with the panzer arm just so they could get their way. Petty shit like re-categorizing StuGs from "assault guns" to "heavy assault guns", basically removing StuGs from the command of the panzer arm late into 1944 when they basically took up two thirds of panzer forces on both fronts.

>>2361942
>and no this instance that proves me wrong doesn't count

>>2361492
>you will never be a Neolithic conspiracy theorist who builds a gigantic arc to keep his family safe and looks out smugly as the neighbours are flood-cucked

>>2362354
>a high level of discourse is expected
the aztecs were so hated that the spanish were easily able to build a coalition of subjugated tribes to rise up against them

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>>2358666
Some, like this bloke, would disagree - the Roman Inquisition in 1615, concluded that heliocentrism was "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture."

>every telling of galileos story either depict him as an absolute paragon of goodness and science or a retarded asshole bullying the defenseless church

>>2362651
>>a high level of discourse is expected
>please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.
proceeds to ad hominem me instead of refuting from the first post, complains of the high discourse and proceeds to quote half of the post
fuck off, won't even bother to mention Nezahualpilli's conflict with Tenochtitlan

>>2358651
Is that wrong?

>>2362694
In WWI they didn't join until it was obvious Britain and France had already won.
In WWII they just turtled in England until it was clear Russian had won, then launched a comically poor invasion against conscripts and children and still took a year to reach Berlin.
So while they were on the winning side in two world wars, they can't be said to have won two world wars with a straight face.

>>2362755
>what is lend lease

>>2362332
They weren't hated for their sacrifices. Everyone else did it too. Tlaxcala did it at quite a high level themselves. They were hated for the heavy tribute they imposed on their conquered cities. Ironically, the Spaniards would later continue this heavy tribute on the very people that helped them conquer Mesoamerica. It's no surprise that revolts were frequent throughout the colonial period. And real pacification never really happened.

>>2362678
>1615
>middle ages

also
>one instance

it's pretty fucking stupid that people blame the church for medieval lack of progress because they opposed some astronomy in the enlightenment 500 years later

>>2358764
Yup. the early middle-ages were defined by a total lack of centralized power and feudal anarchy. the high middle-ages were plagued with wars 24/7. the church was involved in a lot of the wars but even then almost none of them had to do with religious reasons and not political ones
>muh Crusades
LITERALLY a defensive campaign to assist the Byzantine Empire which had been under siege from Islam for almost 500 years and who had conquered the entire known world South and East of Europe
>muh sacking on Constantinople by crusaders lmao stupid Church
gas yourself

>>2360439
what is worse for the world; Jews in Israel or Jews in Europe?

>>2362595
>winning your own civil war
>tagging along with England and France doing all the heavy lifting and counting yourself as a victor
>killing chinese en masse as if it's difficult, and you're still not the only one on your side
>ww2: debatable
kill yourself

>>2359332
Well, at least the russian empire claimed itself the Third Rome only after the marriage of Ivan III with Zoe Paleologus, nephew of the last Byzantine Emperor. There was at least a dynastic bond to the "Second Rome"

>>2358660
Just like every major player in ancient Roman history? Most politicians wanted to be consul so that they could've the pro-consulate for some province for the next five years together with the imperium that came with it

>>2363028
Outside Israel

>>2363015
>islam was a monolithic entity.

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>>2358621
>armenian genocide is real
>armenians wuz good goyz they dindu nuffin

>>2363322
begone, roach

>>2360850
It's funny since Greek slaves eventually promoted atheism

>"Alexander the Great is only called such because of the bias of Greco-Roman historians and Eurocentric academia. In reality, he was no different than Hitler."

>>2362645

It has been debunked many times (and even by some atheist blogger) that this was not the case and the church had a valid reason to oppose Gallileo. Just because he was right in retrospect does not negate the fact that considering the circumstances at the time he was entirely in the wrong and pushing for something which could not be taken as true.

>>2359010

Pretty much everything. Scientific and philosophical thought mainly, but other things too. Democratic and women's rights took a huge step backwards. All the nasty things people think happen in the middle ages, actually happened or get far far worse in the renaissance. People became MORE superstitious, more fanatical, not less. People saw witches and demonstrate everywhere. People litterally threw their shit into the street.

>>2359763

Yeah, because there aren't entire libraries crammed full of medieval texts of all kinds, right?

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>>2358621

>Shakespeare didn't write any of his plays! He didn't exist/was illiterate!

William Shakespeare is the Elizabethan playwright we know the MOST about.

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>>2358720
All the things you just green texted are right,do some research

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>the entire Polish air force was destroyed on the first day of the war
>the French army in 1940 was a joke
>the only US troops in the pacific were Marines

>>2362491
Nobody says this, not even the biggest Vietnam revisionists are saying the US "won" that war.

>>2362541
They objectively did, they've beaten the Iraqi army to hell and back in just a few weeks, occupied the country, installed a puppet government and got Saddam executed. That's about as clear a victory as it gets.

>>2358687
Yeah! what did the romans ever do for us?

>>2361412
Here you go
>>>234817

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>>2361892
>stone architecture

I got some self-made content for you

ERAMOS

>>2364050
>Nobody says this, not even the biggest Vietnam revisionists are saying the US "won" that war.
>t. Newfag

>any over-generalization

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>Jesus was a communist/socialist

>>2361202
>we/us

It is especially annoying when they use it to lay claim to accomplishments made by people long ago whom they have little to no connection with besides skin color/regional occupation.

>All africans were
>All europeans were

>Unironically viewing history as a linear story, where groups (countries/empires etc) are monolithic characters

>Just a lack of nuanced thinking overall

>>2362817
That's not what we're talking about.

>>2363960
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAA

>>2362755
>In WWI they didn't join until it was obvious Britain and France had already won.
Yeah, which is why immediately after they joined, the French army mutinied, the Russian Empire collapsed, and it took another two years to win the war. Because it was in the bag.

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>>2362595
>italian civil war: won

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>>2358621
>isis is allied with al qaeda

>>2358720
Babarossa was a preemptive strike. How preemptive is up for debate. The USSR would not have invaded in 1941, as the most hardcore Wehraboos claim.

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>>2364806
Holy shit there's so much wrong with this post. Do you know nothing about ww1?

>Russia leaves ww1: 3 march 1917
>US enters the war: 4th April 1917

>US troops begin arriving to the front: 25th June 1917

Now, let's get into WHY germany surrendered

If you actually study the birth of the German republic, you'll know the german revolution began with the Kiel Mutiny in 1918, and this spread throughout the republic. German troops were not losing on the front lines. They had lost ground but were STILL in belgium and france. So, why did they surrender?

Psssst- It wasn't the Americans.

These were the reasons Germany Surrendered

>The Ottomans had now surrendered to Britain and France after being chased up to anatolia
>The Austro-Hungarian Empire had surrendered to the Franco-Greco Balkan campaign and success on the Italian front to break through
>Germans were LITERALLY STARVING IN THE STREETS OF BERLIN due to the british Blockade


Germany has no allies left, had no supplies left, and a civil war about to start as riots and revolts broke out.

In short, Germany would've surrendered anyway.

Now please fucking kill yourself.

>>2364829
Maybe, but it wasn't launched as a preemptive strike, it was launched because

>Germany desperately needed oil, oil that could be found in the caucasus
>Hitler wanted lebensraum

I know you're thinking 'It'd be ridiculous to invade Russia just for Oil' but hear me out, people thought Russia would collapse in a FEW DAYS. Hitler said 'when we open the door, the whole rotten structure shall come tumbling down'.

No German seriously believed Russia was a threat.

>>2364834
Oh, good, so the Allied situation looked even worse than I thought when America jumped in.

And then you cite a bunch of shit that happened a year after the American's join, while ignoring the moral and materiel boost that American entry gave to the Entente powers. Damn those American vultures, jumping in at the last second.

>>2358801
Slavs aren't a ethnicity, they're Europeans with Mongol blood who speak Slavic language.

>>2364853
Did you even read my post? I specifically listed reasons why Germany and other powers surrendered that WEREN'T due to America, you brainless shit.

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>Holocaust never happened
>Holodomor never happened

>>2361202
>>"we/us" any time someone is referring to events that happened hundreds of years ago
This. Historical relativism is the cancer of humanities. It teaches idiot kids that "heritage" has any sort relevance to the present. They use this fallacy for their retarded "privilege" theories.

>>2364890
>Historical relativism

I think it's good to teach those studying it to feel empathy and understanding to historical figures, not to relate but to understand. It sort of pisses me off when people laugh at horrible ways people died in history, i.e stakes etc, despite the fact if it had happened today they'd be very solemn and respectful.

>>2364904
Empathy is entirely subjective and therefore shouldn't be relevant. If a student of history can't empathize historically then they're probably in the wrong field. When you enforce something historical relativism, you end up spreading that to sociological majors who revel in their fallacious judgement of being historically guilty by association. Not to mention the fact that the majority of these fallacious judgement are biased and sometimes made up. The popular idea that "white people are evil because slaves" is the most catastrophes kind of idea to come out of American "intellectuals".

>>2364042
>the french army in 1940 was not a joke
explains why they got BLITZ'ed

>>2358621
You rage, you lose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naPUYTKEMc8

>>2363960
Hey. >>>/pol/ is that way.

>>2363534
back to your shithole armenian scum

t. russian

>>2358720
>Nazi Germany economy was efficient
Well that's true, Hjalmar Schacht got the economy back on track in record time, along with retaining the projects from Weimar Germany that were actually good.

What grinds my gears is when people say it was HITLER who repaired the economy. Hitler pretty much didn't do anything, it was other people in Nazi Germany.

>>2365100
>Hitler pretty much didn't do anything
Except, you know, squander all that new found surplus on an unwinnable war.

Jokes on you, I didn't rage once.

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>>2358666

>>2365167
Yeah. I guess even Hitler sympathizers should agree that his foreign policies were a complete catastrophe post-Sudetenland.

>>2365047
Poor government and leaders.
Besides, Blitz would have worked on any single country in the world had they been a neighbor to Germany.
Russia itself got power assblasted at the start and only survived because it was a totalitarian régime with 5 times the population of France and twenty times its size.

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>marx's analyses of capitalism murdered 300000 quadgillion innocent people

>>2365670
>marx's analyses of capitalism murdered 300000 quadgillion innocent people
>implying anyone read Kapital
Nah that would be his manifesto.

>>2358621
They were the villains of the Punic Wars though.

>>2362817
>we're so courageous and clever because we have a huge populace, loads of every resource available, a massive industrial base and our mainland has two huge fucking oceans between us and our enemy

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>>2365906
You might think you have divine providence too if the Indians, French, British, and Spaniards couldn't stop you.

>What if hitler went to art school :V)

>>2365883
I'd blame the Mamertines if anyone for ruining the Punic-Roman alliance. Now those guys were actual baddies, going full jihad on the pacifist Greeks in Messina and fucking up Sicily.

>>2364626
Even worse:
"If Jesus was back among us, he'd be a law-abiding gun owner. He'd support the Police. And he'd say "Merry Christmas" not "Happy Holidays.""

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>>2358648

>>2361730
>>2361894
kill yourselves.
nubians taking credit for egyptian culture is tantamount to cultural appropriation as well.

>>2365938
fkn love the Gadsden Purchase tBh

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>>2359255

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>>2366392
>Eastern Northern Northern Bulgarian Roman Empire

>>2363036
>winning your own civil war
Well, that's pretty straightfoward isnt it?
>blah blah you did nothing in WW1
British "intellectuals" going at it again, we probably contributed more to the war in terms of combatants and losses than the UK
>muh boxer rebellion
What the fuck is your point again?
>WW2: debatable
Were we on the side that won when the peace treaties were signed? Yes
Does that make us victors? Yes
Pretty easy to grasp fampai

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>>2362595

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>>2366481
VERY good argument.
REALLY made me think.

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>>2362595
>italian civil war: won

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>>2358621
WE WUZ, in the African American and Stormfag varieties.

>>2366525
>>2364815
>>2363036
You all seem to be unaware of the fact that italy has indeed had a civil war, look it up on google before shitposting. Does the US not mantain that it has won its civil war? I really dont get what you're going at, except for grade school-tier b8ing.

>>2362595
>WW2: debatable

What the fuck we lost WW2 so badly that we got lucky that the allies didn't divided Italy in 2 parts like with Germany. Also we sucked Germany cock all the time

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>>2362595
>italian civil war: won

>>2366648
While that is true for the mussolinian, fascist government, it is also true that after his expulsion from government, the new govern signed an armistice, and from there onward collaborated with the allies. How can be that classified as losing if not in the eyes of the manicheist anglo vision of the world, which has become the lens we use to approach any topic regarding WW2?
Stay propaganda'ed, luigi.

>>2362595
>we won a war against ourselves
I mean if the other side won you'd still claim it as an Italian victory no?

>>2366700
I suppose that by definition civil wars cant be lost, but what are you gonna do about it?
Was it a war? Yes
Was italy involved in it? Yes
So I dont see your point.

>>2366726
It's like a boxer punching himself in the face and then scoring that as a KO in his record.

>>2366734
That's the tl,dr of most Italian history for the last 200 years.

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>>2366763
K E K this on so many levels.
>>2366692
Ot doesn't mean nothing we sucked balls for most of the time and we lost the war. We lost territories too and a "winner" in a war doesnt fucking lose territories. Also winners don't do drugs

>>2366472
>Implying that the Italians where there to help renforce France at the Marne.
>More People died so we contributed more
Fuck off

>>2358648
Holy fuck this. Nothing more obnoxious than """""""""""""""""""""""Irish"""""""""""""""""" people in the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mkx-kfOPFM

>>2366865
Golly gee, I wonder who beat the austro-hungarian empire. Was it britain? Hmm, nah, that cant be. Was it france perhaps? Doesnt sound right. Hey, then maybe it was the USA? Oh wait, no, it was Italy.
>>2366828
Guess what carmine, it was the anglo manicheist view of the world (that still persists to this day) which impeded them from seeing us as anything other than an enemy, after we even joined them in the liberation of our country. Blame them, not your country. The amount of propaganda you read history trough is disconcerting.
>>2366734
I will gladly use this metaphor to refer also to the first english civil war, the glorious revolution, the french wars of religion, the castillian civil war, the times of trouble in russia, the american civil war, the dacke war, the revolt of the three feudataries, the taiping rebellion, the boxer rebellion, the marian-sillan war, the cesar-pompeius war...should I continue of you see how idiotic of a statement you've made?

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>Christianity caused the fall of the Roman Empire and led Europe to the Dark Ages

>>2367060
None of those other countries put their civil wars on their list of greatest military victories.

>>2366895
They just want an identity.

>>2367073
Haha what the shit? The first english civil war isnt cheered? It brought to parliamentarism as opposed to monarchism. The glorious revolution isnt cheered? How'd you figure they called it "glorious"? The boxer rebellion isnt cheered when it basically brought about modern china? The american civil war is not cheered for virtually ending slavery?
If anything yes, we call it a huge victory because it is the victory of a free and democratic state against the republic of salò, a lunatic, fascist puppet state of germany. How is that not a victory you mouthbreather?

>>2366618
We know Italy had a civil war, it's the fact you think its an achievement for winning your own civil war WHEN YOU CAN'T LOSE

>>2367107
Yeah but those wars aren't celebrated because of the military achievements in them, but because the effect they ended up having. The argument was that Italy wasn't good at waging wars, not that they've never had wars.

>>2367118
I listed the wars italy was involved in since its inception, I didnt list "achievements".
Was the italian civil war a war italy was involved in? Yes
So your point again?

>>2367145
It doesn't prove they're good at winning wars you utter retard.

Italy lost to fucking ethiopians. Your country is a joke.

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>>2362595
>italian civil war: won
>how dare you ridicule the glorious Italian military, just look at how many Italians we killed

>>2367208
>>2367148
>>2367148
Wow, it's almost like I'm talking to illiterate underages who just CAN NOT grasp that the battle of adwa saw 17k italians against 110k ethiopians, of which 80k armed with top-notch russian rifles.
You NEED to go back to >>>/b/.

>>2367234
i agree, the battle was incredibly unfair. one has to wonder what went through the minds of the Italian officers when they invaded the great Ethiopian empire. the Italian military will hopefully stop picking fights with superior armies in the future to save themselves from further embarrassments

>>2367234
I know. The horrors of the great ethiopian army.... wow.....

>>2367266
>one has to wonder what went through the minds of the Italian officers
wewuz the greatest empire the world has ever known 'n shit

>>2366472
>>blah blah you did nothing in WW1
I was referring to the Crimean war as "tagging along"

>Were we on the side that won when the peace treaties were signed? Yes
>Does that make us victors? Yes
Did you surrender? Yes. You lost WWII. Eat shit.

>>2366472
Italy "won" WW2 in much the same way Romania did.

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>>2366895
>"Ok, fine, I can't lie. I'm Jewish"

>>2358667
>white people
>white

>>2358621
They were.

>>2365100
>got the economy back on track in record time
Yeah by massive debt spending while at the same time holding no debt from its creditors, like any sane country. Germany literally needed to go to war to keep its economy running or it would have gone full melt-down by '45 anyways.

>>2366895
>lol there's black guys saying they have a tiny microscopic bit of irish in their gene pool
You do know African-Americans have a ton of European lineage right? I bet some of those guys' families were owned and fucked by Irish masters

>>2358641
There was no gay or straight you just fucked many men and women. It was only until after christianity settled down in europe that the concept of 'homosexuality' was singled out

>>2359745
>The US dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was a horrible atrocity committed against civilian targets
That's true though.
>and probably the worst thing they've ever done in war
No that would be the firebombings.

>>2364872
I thank you for your service

>>2361424
>mayans are stone age
>aztecs are stone age
>INCANS ARE STONE AGE

>>2362617
>invade a country whose defending force both outnumbers you and has more equipment
That still qualifies them as "shit at war" anon, its about more than just fighting ability.

>>2365075
>Russian the expert on calling out shitholes when they see one

>>2365670
>Capitalism doesn't kill people, poverty does.

>>2365060
The comments are more suicide-inducing than anything Cracked could shit out.

>>2370624
Doubtful. Most Irish came over after slavery ended.

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>>2365060

EVIL WHITE AMERICANS KILLED 100000 TRILLION NATIVE AMERICANS WITH BIOLOGICALLY WEAPONIZED BLANKETS!!!

>>2358687
Brutal conquest and slavery were pretty common in the ancient world. Yeah, life was a little less comfy back then. Pick up a book.

>>2363639
>the church had a valid reason to oppose Gallileo
Being what exactly? And valid according to who, the Church?

>>2358687
>So can I kill you, rape your relatives and burn down your house then, right?
No because I'll shoot you in the face. Calling the Romans evil for standard acts of conquest is pretty sill though. That's just what people have pretty much always done. Rome was just better at it than most.

>>2366327
Nobody says that lol.

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>>2362755
>In WWI they didn't join until it was obvious Britain and France had already won.
Out of curiosity which country are you from?

>>2362755
Looks like some faggot never heard of the war in the pacific.

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>>2364883
>Holocaust happened
>Holodomor never happened

>>2364626
this is 100% false
>>2366327
this is like 50% false

he never broke Roman law, and in fact supported paying taxes and not rebelling against instituted injustice.

he told his followers to carry swords

he always asserted the authority of God over man and man's culture, even the culture of the Jewish elites.

so he literally could be a law abiding gun owner who is a stickler about the religiosity of Christmas. But he wouldn't do it the way fat Americans do.

>>2364626
Socialism is modern movement, but it definitly takes a lot from christian morality.

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>>2366895
>Americans

>>2371792
>but it definitly takes a lot from christian morality.
wrong

>>2361807
when talking about the Cordoba Caliphate
>such an advanced civilizations, sanitation, aqueducts, tolerant muslims with science and shit.

when talking about the Spaniards and their overseas empire
>filthy people, didn't took shower, spread diseases, really dumb, racist christians, no science.

really makes me think.

>>2358657
Mehmet pls

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>>2361469
More people die in Chicago in one year than the amount of people killed in the entire inquisition. It's fucking stupid anytime somebody tries to use that to compare Christianity and Islam.

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>>2361469
>good guys in WW1

That one is even worse.

>>2361469
>>Russia was feudal before 1917
no just before 1848, LMAO

>the Nazis were THIS close to winning the war

>>2372873
Oh, and somewhat related

>everyone in WW2 was equally bad!

Probably born out of some bizarre modern need to be cynical and above it all, seriously minimizes Nazi/Jap atrocities.

>>2359947
>implying
Reminder that half the "Hitler fucked up the command" stories are lies by said command.

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>The samurai were bound by bushido and never used guns because they are dishonorable

>>2373110
Who with even half a brain would think this?

>>2373265
Weaboos.

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>>2362595
>WW2: debatable

Speaking of stupid stuff, I just heard someone claim that one of the kings of England (when it was still Catholic) had passed some sort of bill or law allowing a man whose wife hadn't given him children to have sex with whoever he wanted until he did have children. They said it wasn't Henry VIII. Then she started ranting about how evil men are. I immediately smelled bullshit, anyone ever heard of anything like this?

>colonialism is evil

>>2364829
When Stalin was hearing reports that Germany was about to invade, he thought it was disinfo agents. Even when Germany was invading, he refused to believe it.

>>2364844
>I know you're thinking 'It'd be ridiculous to invade Russia just for Oil' but hear me out, people thought Russia would collapse in a FEW DAYS. Hitler said 'when we open the door, the whole rotten structure shall come tumbling down'.

It came kind of close, in his defense.

>No German seriously believed Russia was a threat.

Not exactly. It was recognized as a serious long-term threat. Hitler faced the same dilemma as the German government in 1914: leave Russia alone, let it continue to industrialize, and in about 5-10 years it's going to dwarf you. He came to the same conclusion about how to solve that as they did.

>>2373925
Then when he realized what was happening, he holed himself up in his private residence, refused to respond to any communications, and allegedly considered suicide.

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>>2362595
>WW1: won
you switched sides you fucking spaz

>>2366374
Niggas just wanted a railroad

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>>2358706

Name a single medieval scientist persecuted by the church.

Now consider that most major universities in Europe were established by the Vatican via Papal Bulls and the Church was usually the only one giving an education via cathedral schools and such in a given area for the middle ages up until the establishment of secular schools much later on.

People see bible thumpers in the South of the US, rejection of evolution by the same and so forth, the persecution of Galileo and other scientists during the Renaissance (which was usually based more on personal animosity than strictly religious reasons) and conflate it with the church as a whole throughout its entire history. Most of the anti-science stuff is from backwards Protestants and luddites, very few people know the church's actual position on science or about any of the discoveries of its members. The Big Bang Theory, for example, was formulated by George Lemaitre, a Roman Catholic priest. They've been particularly good on Astronomy (gotta make sure holidays fall on the correct day after all).

>>2364872
And my point is, Woodrow Wilson didn't have a crystal ball you dumb asshole. When America joined the war, there was no indication that the German government would collapse a year and a half later.

Also, I notice that you didn't address the French mutinies, which Petain got under control in part because he promised no new offensives until the arrival of "Tanks, and the Americans"

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>>2358621
>MARTIN LUTHER WAS AN EVIL HERETICAL BASTARD REEEEEE.

t. every catholic ever.

>>2373721
>white people were just helping everybody out until that ungrateful tramp, gandhi

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>>2362595

In what way is WW2 debatable?

>>2373961
Italy didn't even want to join the War at all at first and, aside from a bunch of fundies wanting to declare war against "secularist France" (patently ignoring the fact that the other side had the birthplace of Lutheranism and Muslims) everyone preferred to go to war against Austria, be it because territories inhabited by people of your culture and with a decent basic infrastructure are easier to administer than an African colony or because Austria-Hungary was the country Italy fought to even be' indipendente in the first Place; are you gonna say that the treaty Bismarck signed decades before had to be' respected, in spite of being essentially not what 99℅ of the people wanted?

>>2374099
It is not, but it is not the only war (or Indeed military operation) Italy took part in.

>>2374027
>And my point is, Woodrow Wilson didn't have a crystal ball you dumb asshole. When America joined the war, there was no indication that the German government would collapse a year and a half later.

Hahha, no it wasn't you butt blasted loser. You've lost. Your original point was America won ww1 for the Entente. they didn't.

>Also, I notice that you didn't address the French mutinies, which Petain got under control in part because he promised no new offensives until the arrival of "Tanks, and the Americans"

Because amazingly the line was able to hold in its place without US Support thanks to British, Belgian and Portuguese recruits pouring in. the French Mutinies would've ended after it became clear the line wouldn't collapse.

>>2370933
Do you even know the arguments of both parties? According to logic.

>>2358621

> the holocaust didn't happen

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>the loser in the war is always evil

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>>2375783
>the winner writes the history book

>The arabs preserved the writings of the ancient greeks and romans.

Along with this is the unstated assumption that the Byzantines did not exist.

>>2358666
>>2358706
he said religion in Medieval times, not Christianity. There was a golden age of Islam, remember that. ;)

>>2375987
Completely correct in case of Austria-Hungary.

>>2374237
You are both wrong.

America entered the war when both sides were obviously exhausted, and won the war for the Entente.

>>2374067
>Martin Luther wasn't an evil heretical bastard REEEEEE

>>2376013
It's not completely untrue, but it's just so overused and boring, as if it's some universal law when really interpretations of various wars vary widely no matter who the winner.

>>2373110
>Samurai didn't use firearms
Never heard a person claim this.
>bound by bushido
That I get. I blame the endless sensationalist interpretation of what bushido was. Heck, Japan used it to rally up troops during WW2.
>muh honour and muh daimyo
Nope.

>>2358720
Eisenhower legit did kill 2 million german POW's, they even came up with a bullshit designation for them so that they didn't have to treat them as POW's.

Oddly enough, most died of starvation, malnutrition, dehydration, and disease, which mirrors the claims of some Holocaust deniers that there were no death camps and that most Holocaust victims died of starvation, malnutrition, dehydration, and disease. I've never understood the "we didn't gas them, we just starved them to death in concentration camps" defense.

>>2376015
>when both sides were nearly exhausted

FTFY

The Hundred Days offensive was tearing through German lines like an Indian at a rape awareness rally.

By the time the US mobilized seriously, the UK and France had presented Germany with a decisive battlefield defeat, and an impending invasion of the homeland itself.

>>2376077
>The Hundred Days offensive was tearing through German lines like an Indian at a rape awareness rally.
Four hundred and ninety eight days after the entry of America into the war. And it the Hundred days campaign was so successful partially because the Germans had thrown away 600,000 soldiers failing to win the war with the Spring Offensive. The Spring offensive was launched to end the war before Americans showed up and won for the entente.

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>thats not real communism.

>>2358874
>Be the Academy
>Be center of byzantine learning and sort of a bank.
>Have academic disputes between christian and pagan philosophers.
>Pagan faction wins, shut out the Christian faction.
>Christian faction appeals to Justinian
>Justinian doesn't give a fuck but he loves money. Throws out the pagan faction, but then abolishes the Academy and takes all the money.

MAD, vicious academic politics, and Justinian destroyed the the philosophical schools.

But back to the subject of stupid shit:
>Justinian was a good emperor.
>Hypatia was killed because the Christians hated learning, and not because she was a prominent supporter of Orestes.
>Hypatia's death marked the end of hellenistic philosophy.

>>2362683
The correct story was that he was an arrogant asshole who bullied every influential person in a very powerful, vengeful Church.

Only bully people who can't put you under house arrest for the rest of your life, kids.

>South for States' Rights
>North fought to end Slavery

>Jews are evil

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>>2376346
>Jews aren't evil

>>2370908
Not sure how that makes it doubtful. Slave owners made up a small portion of the population, but were still able to make a mark on their ancestry.

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>>2358621
>spaniards were bad!
>aztecs were good!
>spanish empire conquered the aztecs!
>hernan cortes hated the indians!

>>2358687
for the last time, it's not rape if you love them!

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>>2366392

>>2376015
No they didn't. Germany was never going to break through, and its collapse was inevitable.

>>2376694
This one I really don't get. It was the Spaniards who integrated the natives into their colonies while the United States just waited until they were properly established before betraying the hospitality of the natives and genociding them

>Africans sold their own into the transatlantic slave trade

Yes and no. Yes in that for a long time, africans were gathering up other africans from the interior and transporting them to the west coast for trade with europeans, since it was extremely difficult/dangerous for euros to go in.

No in the sense that people today tend to superimpose their views of racial identity and percieved loyalty, on groups of people who back then, simply had no concept of such a thing. People of other tribes, that had their own languages, customs, etc were simply that; the 'other'.

Alexander
>The Great

>>2377322
You're right it should be
>the greatest

>>2372879
Well I think that the argument there is that the Nazis, Japs, and Russians were equally bad and since Russia was an Allied power then that means both sides were bad!!!!11!1!!

also, it's done to stop people from minimizing war crimes done by Americans and British such as treatment of POWs by Americans and the bombing of Dresden.

the real problem is anybody studying history through a moral lens. History is an objective study of events, and the study of historical ethics should be treated historically rather than ethically.

>>2362678
Galileo was a cunt. He made fun of the Pope in his book while being on his payroll and didnt expect any repercussions?

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>>2359062
Basically this cunt annoys you

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>>2362595
>WW1: won
Switched sides

WW2:debatable
How? Not only did you get btfo everywhere you went, you dragged Germans into your conflicts cos you were so shit

italian civil war: won
kek

>>2377645
>Switched sides

BEFORE declaring war, unlike WW2.

>>2371103

the british fought much harder resistance in burma,the americanbs hopped from island to island and cleared out maybe 50-100 japs at a time.

>the turks are european

>Soviet Union was only gulag and starvation
>Holodomor was intentional, not a famine throughout all the southern USSR
>socialism fall in USSR was bloodless
>in Russian civil war boksheviks were the bad guys
When will those memes die?

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>>2358621
that the crusades was aggressive wars against the peaceful middle east

>>2378331
>>Soviet Union was only gulag and starvation
for the 1930's it was
>>>Holodomor was intentional, not a famine throughout all the southern USSR
two things: first is that accounts show soviet soldiers taking grain from villages with people starving and dying in the street and targeting those who resisted socialism the hardest, so yes it was intentional

second thing is that the historical evidence for the practical failure of socialism was well available even in the beginning of the 20th century, so the authorities implementing socialistic tendencies are 100% responsible for the side effects and failures of forcefully implementing that system

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>Mixing up Greeks/Romans and sometimes Egyptians too.
>The overfetishization of the Vikings, give them horns, make them badass and OP etc. muh cool noble savage essentially. They were accomplished raiders and explorers. Not some fantasy race from LotR
>Rome was always an empire
>The Huns were east Asian tribes

>>2361948
>having the organisation to move heavy stones up to the peak of a very steep mountain isn't a worthy feat in and of itself

>>2362595
>war of unification: won
>invasion of eritrea: won
>invasion of somalia: won
>italo-ottoman war: won
>invasion of lybia: won
>second italo-abyssinian war: won

These are the only ones where Italy actually did a significant amount of the fighting themselves.

>italo-ottoman war
>war of unification

These are the only victories where Italy actually won against a fairly powerful opponent.

>>2377857
Even if that were true, British forces fighting bravely and against greater odds doesn't mean they were the primary reason for Japan's defeat.

>>2365906
>we're so courageous and clever because we have a huge populace, loads of every resource available, a massive industrial base and our mainland has two huge fucking oceans between us and our enemy

If euros are so much more courageous and clever then why didn't they have the same?

>>2361948
This has to be bait. The stones were fitted so precisely that no mortar was needed. That's a fucking accomplishment

>>2380976
>Not some fantasy race from LotR
/tg/ here
the rohirrim were saxons, the elves were finno-ugric and gondor was feudal medieval; the northern realms did not matter, the noldor were not!rome and the numenoreans are the eternal anglo
the only thing remotely viking in the lore of arda is dagor dagorath which is essentially ragnarok- and arguably the rohirrim who are saxons and not snow nigs

learn your fantasy lore ontop of your irl lore

>>2382072

You are retarded. The very story is based on Wagners ring. The story itself is based on a Nordic story. Tolkien just put his own modern spin on it and changed some stuff up.

Where the fuck did you get your facts from?

>>2382094
>nordic story
and you call me retarded.
No, it is not a nordic story, the mythology and pagan ways are germanic and originated in the tribes of teutoburg forest; the vikings were a germanic people but were specifically the raiders of the nordic peoples.
The story of Arda does not even remotely revolve around lord of the rings which is one story in a much larger world; the far more important story is that of the valar and melkor.

Ontop of that the story in lord of the rings only shares a magic ring and a deific force trying very hard to get it back in common with Der Ring des Nibelungen; Star Wars a new hope has vikings in it because darth vader is trying to get the plans of the death star back from the rebels!

dont you fucking speak to me if you have not read the silmarillion

File: back to ribbit.jpg (189KB, 717x880px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 717x880px

>>2381972
>um...