The Trouble in a nutshell

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Ulster is protestant land and will remain so

>Boston """Irish"""man writes a greentext essay without provocation about how the Brits are the asshurt ones, I swear

>>2224853
In a better nutshell

> semi-illiterates arguing over how best to pray to their invisible sky-fairy
> drug gangs pretending to be 'politically motivated'
> 'Irish' Americans literally funding terrorists... until conveniently the eleventh day of September anno domini two thousand and one

Catholics are niggers of the British isles

>>2224901
this

>>2224853
We'll remember this faggotry next time you need to be bailed out.

Without mentioning a playwright or a terrorist, what Irish people are there of note? Justify your independence to me.

One thing I've never understood:

The conflict mostly seems like a conflict of ethnicity (that is, ethnic Irish and ethnic English). So why is it typified as "Catholic" and "Protestant"?

Who cares? Less relevant than a bunch of Arab tribes in the desert killing and raping each other desu.

>>2225458
Liam Neeson
Robert Edward
Michael Connelly

>>2225474
The conflict is between republicans who want Ireland to be a unified republic and unionist who want north Ireland to stay in the United Kingdom.

>>2225766
If you look at the history its all about protestants vs catholics

>be british
>treat the Irish like second-class citizens and enslave them
>they have a famine
>"lol who cares we wont help them even though they are our subjects"
>generally just treat the Irish like shit all the time
>they fight for independence
>"lol okay but you're still british subjects and these counties will still be part of the united kingdom even though only a minority wants to stay with the UK"
>"wtf why are they mad"
>militia army rises to liberate the part of their country still under british rule
>go full blown mccarthy and start arresting people without trial because they might be supportive of the militia army
>people peacefully protest this
>kill them
>army gets aggressive and commits bombings to damage infrastructure because thats how war works
>civilians die
>"WAHHHHH THE IRA ARE TERRORISTS MUH CIVILIAN CASUALTY WHO CARES IF WE OPPRESSED THE IRISH FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND KILLED THEM OURSELVES INNOCENT PEOPLE DIED THEYRE TERRORISTS!!!!!!"

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>>2224853
It should be male semen since you Celts are nothing more than faggot fuckboys.

T. Known Boss

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Fuck Protestants.

>>2225773
If you like at the history that is precisely what it isn't about. From the 1790s right up until the 1900s many if not most Irish nationalists were Protestants.

>>2226178
Are you suggesting King James plantation of Protestants into Ulster and the subsequent ethnic cleansing of Irish catholics isnt what its about?

>>2224886
I sure hope you don't mean Anglican.

Quite funny that despite all historical Anglo whining about papists, they seemed to have learned the ropes of using religious centralization as a form of control pretty well.

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>>2224853

When Henry VI came to power, he styled himself as the King of the Britons retaking his Kingdom as prophecy intended.

After a Welshman became King, Normans in Ireland decided to try and take the Kingdom for themselves.

Ireland was the seat of Yorkist power, Henry VI was seen as Lancaster retaking the Kingdom. The Yorkists in Ireland started an underground network of dissidents against Welsh rule of the Kingdom.

This culminated in the Battle of Stoke

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stoke_Field

The Yorkist Normans in Ireland continued to try to take the Kingdom under many pretenders.

The Yorkists started the rebellions against Welsh rule. As they perceived things, they had as much rite to rule Britain as some Welsh Lancastrian usurpers.

As Ireland was relatively disconnected from the mainland, underground Yorkists were able to continue their struggle against the Lancastrians under Welsh rule.

When Henry VIII became King and attacked the Church, this gave the Yorkists the opportunity to rebel against the Lancastrian Tudors, thus the Yorkists remained loyal to the Church and the Lancastrians fell into heresy.

The troubles began here.

Yorkists became Catholics
Lancastrians became Protestants

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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

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Cromwell descended from the court of Henry VIII, Cromwell destroyed the Yorkist nobility in Ireland.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cromwell

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rite

This is why all boards need flags, so we can tell who actually has some clue as to what they're talking about and who's a larping shithead.

>it's the fault of the British that a bomb made by the IRA and planted by the IRA explodes
>the British used kids as human shields (based on them standing next to some children)
>disregard that the current First Minister (for now) was almost killed as a child because the IRA thought it perfectly acceptable to blow up a schoolbus, to try and kill the driver.

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Oh look another troubles thread from a non Irish person
I'm not gunna write out a whole timeline cause you can look it up yourselves, but I will debunk some myths
>troubles originally started out as a civil rights movement as Irish Catholics were discriminated against in social programs (housing especially) and employment
>although your religion, ethnicity, and neighbourhood corresponded to which side you were one, there were Irish Catholic unionists and vice versa
>everyone in Northern Ireland, both Irish and ulster-scots, were happy to see the British military intervene, until the BA clearly took the side of the loyalists
>the BA were in no way an innocent outsider. There is growing evidence they helped Unionist paras orchestrate the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, and investigations are blocked by the British government whenever the victims families launch one
>unionists paras were a lot more vicious, but the IRA was a lot more active and probably more numerous. Shankhill butchers, etc.
>despite the Irish government denouncing all paramilitaries, a lot of Irish people were (and still are) empathetic to the republican cause
Take it with a grain of salt, I'm an éire flag

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>>2224853
>Britain gets involved because they need to stick their nose in everybody's business at all times or else the blood on their hands might dry

Underrated.

>>2226382
>This is why all boards need flags
So you can send hit squads to kill dissidents

>>2226421


Interesting that it's that part of the post you feel able to comment on.

>>2226382
pretty easy to tell apart american """irish""" from actual irish

>>2225410
Anglos are the Jews of the British isles

>>2226421
you mean so he can VPN troll with the Israeli flag

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Who do you side with?

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>>2226464
Gaels
>well-proportioned
>superior Iberian headgear
>humble, handstitched clothing
>flag showing allegiance to their lord
>wives are safe at home

Lowlanders
>manlets
>bonnets and ill-fitting arming caps
>excessively flamboyant clothing
>lord has to be there himself wielding some sort of spurtle
>can't even hold a jug over his head properly, wife has to do it for him

the answer is clear desu

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>>2226464
I've made it quite clear which side I'd be on
>not being a gall óglaigh

>>2225773
Only it isn't, the United Irishmen were mostly Protestants, some of Ireland's greatest heroes are protestant, you have Wolfe Tone, Napper Tandy not to mention fucking Parnell, who was half English, the Protestant vs Catholic conflict started after the Brits figured out that shitting on everyone who isn't Anglican, even other protestants wasn't such a good idea, so they stopped shitting on other protestants and went on to shit only on the Catholics which caused the divide.

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>>2226464

Out of my way Saxon shits

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>>2224853

Here's the troubles in a fucking nutshell:

Tá na tans anseo i mo thír
tá siad chun dul

simple as
up the RA
brits out
brits are scum
fuck the queen
tiocafaidh ar lá agus tá gráin ar maggie tatcher fós

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob5mw6xGYes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXzhEokVn0s

https://youtu.be/ZJh0m0E7Ozg

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>>2226805
>no come out Ye Black and Tans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhfgQOLSrTQ

Hmm yes very peaceful

>>2226826
>ramming a republican funeral
>pulling a gun on the already angry mob
what in the name of God was this idiot thinking

>>2226851
They were literally just driving past. You can engage in all the mental gymnastics you want, but the IRA were entirely at fault.

>>2226851

>ramming

>>2226753
If you go back before the 20th century it is obviously a protestant vs Catholic conflict

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>>2226805

Dont forget these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOJwHzLCD3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPRA59raGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYDxWFZetJ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4k14hk1nA8

>>2224853
>Irish decide to violently oppose the British than democratically oppose it
>Pope says 'no don't do it'
>claim it's a crusade of vengeance when the only irish ''''massacred''' by the English were those who held up arms
>bomb pubs, war memorials, women and children
>Get carte blanche because your inbred cousins have nukes and it's the Cold War and just after

>>2225791
>they have a famine
>which is their fault due to monoculture and mediveal farming methods rather than use new farming methods as they're British
>arresting without trial is wrong
>Militia becomes an army in 4 lines

>>2226363
>Mother's sister marrying Thomas, makes Oliver the descendant of Thomas
WEW LAD
>>2224853
A Catholic England will only come about if Deus Vult, so stop the bombing and cousin fucking
t. English Catholic

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>>2224853
>ITT salty taigs

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>>2226969
>>Irish decide to violently oppose the British than democratically oppose it
As opposed to the orangemen who got what they want as soon as they threatened violence

>>Pope says 'no don't do it'
who cares

>>claim it's a crusade of vengeance when the only irish ''''massacred''' by the English were those who held up arms
wrong

>>bomb pubs, war memorials, women and children
muh chilluns

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>>2226464
Gaels

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>>2226982
Feckin catlicks need to get out.

>>2226989

>thread starts with poor Irish children being traumatised by standing next to soldiers
>unironically posts "muh chilluns"

>>2226989
>catholics not caring what the Holy See says
Well that's how you stop your Catholic free state being taken seriously.
>muh chilluns
Never use moral arguements again if you're justifying the killing of children, young souls who could have become Saints and Popes
>As opposed to the orangemen who got what they want as soon as they threatened violence
America revolution reference, if you want to see a peaceful split just look at Malta
What exactly does that graph mean to show, you can call them Civilians, but how do you know they weren't acting like a paramiliatry group/ general hooliganism

The EU pumps billions of structural funds into Northern Ireland yearly.

I wonder whether, once the unemployment rate inevitably increases when those funds fall away due to the Brexit and not being replaced by the British government, violence will flare up again.

Young, disappointed males having too much free time due to being unemployed in an area of ethnic conflicts seems like a recipe for disaster.

>American LARPERS on Iraq
>The civilian casualties are skewed. The insurgents lie and say their dead were just random civilians and when journalists turn up they hide the weapons!

>American LARPERS on the Troubles
>FUCK BRITS OUT KILLED 8438854346 INNOCENT CIVILIANS UP THE RA! IRISH CIVILIANS WHO DINDU NUFFIN BLOODTHIRSTY BRITS REEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

>>2227008

The enforcement of borders probably won't help either.

>>2227003
look at the image I posted you gimp, I'm disparaging the bogus point constantly brought up that the IRA wuz mass child killin' thugs fuggen terrerists when you can clearly see that proportional to total amount of kills, they killed the least amount of civilians on average compared to the British Army and killed both less in total and on average than Loyalist paras, so stop your fucking whinging

>>2227006
>Well that's how you stop your Catholic free state being taken seriously.
by it not being a Catholic state and my statement revealing your paranoid claim to be bogus? bit contradictory to say one and call it the other
>inb4 b-b-but dev muh prods b obressed stop takin land away from protestant landlords das wrong
>muh speshul position of the cherch

>if you want to see a peaceful split just look at Malta
you're awfully thick if you think the situations were in any way the same
to quote Parnell on your 'democracy' that he participated in

>What did they ever get in the past by trying to conciliate them? Did they get the abolition of tithes by the conciliation of their English taskmasters? No; it was because they adopted different measures. Did O'Connell gain Emancipation for Ireland by conciliation? Catholic emancipation was gained because an English king and his ministers feared revolution. Why was the English church in Ireland disestablished and disendowed? Why was some measure of protection given the Irish tenant? It was because there was an explosion at Clerkenwell and because a lack was shot off a prison van in Manchester. They would never gain anything from England unless they trod upon her toes - they would never gain a single sixpennyworth from her by conciliation.
so stuff your shite

>you can call them Civilians, but how do you know they weren't acting like a paramiliatry group/ general hooliganism
lmao and you're the one berating me for supposedly being hypocritical when it comes to arguments of morals

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>>2226997
Still angry like the rest of the celts at getting btfo'd

>>2227038
but are you Hwicee

>>2225773

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPbC1rYYOA

>>2227033
>current year
>not beleiving in Father Almighy, maker of Heaven and Earth, of all things visible and invisible
>Oppresing Landlords is fine because their grandfather and great grandfathers did
>An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind

>We must be violent to get it to end
>Damn those bloodthirsty college students killing police forcing the Vietnam war to end

>proportionally is more important than total killed
>Dude I only killed 5% of the jewish population, how can you accuse me of trying to remove me and thus charge me with ethnic cleansings crimes even though I wanted to

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>>2227038
stop being an ignorant bigot and hail greater doggerlandia

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>>2227051
fuck off preaching lad this is 4chan

>Oppresing Landlords is fine because their grandfather and great grandfathers did
>oppressing
kek, it was probably one of the best things Dev did in my opinion, even Parnell (a landlord himself) was supposedly inclined towards the popular opinion of his day that that class should be abolished
they're lucky they got even a penny for their troubles

>>proportionally is more important than total killed
it's extremely important, especially when you have john o gods saying the IRA only targeted civilians which would lead you to believe that the overwhelming majority of their kills were civilian, but looking at the actual statistics shows not only that this isn't true but that the British Army themselves had a large portion of their TK being civilians

>Dude I only killed 5% of the jewish population, how can you accuse me of trying to remove me and thus charge me with ethnic cleansings crimes even though I wanted to
a false equivalency for one, and oy vey another shoah of innoshent prods for another
are you a Zionist Unionist by any chance?

>>2227045
Nah greater Mercia4lyf senpai

>>2227065
Catholic zionist

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>>2227184

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>>2227184

>>2227191
If it's a crusader state then all will oppose us, if we give it to the jews then all will bow down once the scourge of humanity is removed. It worked in the 60's so why not now
>>2227197
>not wanting people with high IQ and work ethic in your country
WEW LAD

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>>2227206
alright fella

>>2224886

Ulster is Gaelic land and always will be. Soon the 6 stolen counties will reunite with the 3 free ones.

THE
FAMINE
IS
OVER
IT'S
TIME
TO
GO
HOME

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>>2227247

Empire is over it's time to go home. Ulster is Irish. Fuck off back to Britain.

>>2224853

Go on home British soldiers, go on home! Have you got no fucking homes of your own?!

>>2226767
He said in english.

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>>2227317
amach mo tslí as sassanaigh

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I never really understood the British point in this conflict. Ireland belongs to the Irish.

>>2225474
Ulster protestants are Scottish not English, Anglo irish in the south assimilated and became irish and supported an independent ireland

>>2227330
Because they are subjects off Her Majesty the Queen

>>2227330

>the green man should be able to own everything he can see
>imperialism is okay when we do it

>>2227353
>conquer a load of land
>settle your people
>partition the country down the line
>b-b-but not wanting that partition is imperialism as well
be gone back tae britain

>>2227351
>House of Windsor should deside the fate of the country and it's people
wew lad

>>2227353
>everything he can see
what sounds more logical: the island of Eire ruled by the Irish OR 80 is Ireland and the other 20% is a part of the UK because muh former empire.

>>2227366

How is it not imperialism?

>we should own it, even though most people who live there do the want us to

>>2227387

>complex geopolitics should be reduced down to whatever lines on a map don't trigger anons autism

>>2224853
t. John o' flannegan from Boston

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>>2227407
is it Imperialism for majority Catholic/Nationalist areas to be in the statelet then? You're clearly disregarding arbitrary borders between counties in favour of who the majority of people are in areas and what they believe so why would you support a 6 county partitioned state that only has that number of counties because it would've collapsed in on itself had it not

>>2226464
Not the top blokes he got a fucking shoe on a stick, he is obviously not well.

>>2227330
Amen.

>>2226070
kek mate

>>2226935
fuck the normie IRA songs, the best IRA songs are about the South Armagh brigade desu senpai

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ITT:

>Irish americans think they know anything about ireland and try to post it instead of killing themselves
>People blame one side for being the baddies
>People don't realise that "who started it" doesn't mean "who is the baddies"
>People don't realise that neither side can claim to be just, because despite the fact the IRA COULD have EASILY claimed that role, they decided to just bomb civilians back just as hard as the brits had bullied them
>People don't realise that yes, while Unionists were the aggressive ones who kicked it all off, that back then they were afraid of life under the ROI which-back then-wasn't super fond of protestants
>Republicans think that "shared future" means "inevitable reunification"
>People don't realise the Troubles was an incredibly controversial, complex and messy conflict
>Instead of talking about the interesting bits on either side, the thread will descend into anti-bong/anti-bognigger propaganda

Ulster will probably join ROI someday and the economy will be a bit shit, unless Unionists start getting jobs/stop making a fucking massive fool of themselves.
The IRA haven't been freedom fighters for a long time.

Gerry Adams is a good shitposter but generally a faggot.
Machine Gun Marty was okay, but now he's a bit of a faggot.
The DUP are retards, but Paisley did a fine job of uniting the Unionists.

Ireland is irrelevant.

The best thing to come from the Troubles was the destruction of those shitty fucking flats.


t. lit a bonfire early by accident the other year and started a national fucking controversy

>>2224886

OOH

AAH

>>2226969
>mediveal

kys

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>>2228677
>not getting your education from local halls

>>2226335
>Ireland was the seat of Yorkist power

omg

several things make more sense now

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>>2228677
Your efforts are wasted, anon.

The fenians or huns will claim this thread as their hugbox, and that will be that.

>>2226826
legitimate act against uniformed armed combatants (spies)

>>2228786

>uniformed spies

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>>2228796
lol meant to write un-uniformed

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>>2224853
>Britain gets involved because they need to stick their nose in everybody's business at all times or else the blood on their hands might dry
Top kek.

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>>2228677
I'm Irish you thick fence sitting wanker, and fuck off calling the 6 counties 'Ulster' like the orangemen do (unless you are one)
are you completely incapable of discerning the nuance of the conflict? Ironic that you should post

>>People don't realise the Troubles was an incredibly controversial, complex and messy conflict

and in the same fucking breath claim the IRA "just bombed civilians" and "haven't been freedom fighters for a long time"
for a long time since when exactly, so you can out yourself as either a Loyalist or a clueless faggot

>Ireland is irrelevant.
>>>/int/

>its a "britbongs cant accept that they are obviously the bad guys in this situation" thread

>>2228881

>the people who blow up school buses full of children in order to try and kill the driver because he's a part time soldier, are the good guys

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>>2228878
But it's true, faggot.

Yes, a majority of the dick-moves were committed by Loyalists/British.
The Troubles were-arguably-started by them.

The fact of the matter is, however, that the "conflict" essentially devolved into a series of petty revenge attacks, punctuated with a few co-ordinated attacks on actual "targets."

The scope of the IRA's campaign was unclear and disagreed upon almost the entire way through.

I believe the IRA did good in the sense they secured an equal future for the Irish in the 6 counties, but did shitty by not capitalising on what the British/Loyalists did and instead fucking over republicans for decades by resorting to petty gang-tier attacks.

There was a clear split/divide between the members who wanted to fight the people oppressing them and the people who wanted to go and bomb some protestants.

The British did some awful, awful things, and the Loyalists generally just fucked things up for everyone.

To call either side "good" however is reaching a bit, and generally calling sides of conflicts "goodies" and "baddies" in regards to history is retarded anyway.

>it's another /int/ tier thread

Are there seriously no mods here?

>>2228947
>It's another "anon can't see past the shitposts to see people actually debating something in a thread"

Contribute, or fuck off. Thanks for the bump.

>>2228967
There's no historical value. Just brits and irish arguing about things they weren't around for.

>>2228899
>The Troubles were-arguably-started by them.
it's a continuation of an ethno-religious conflict in many ways, with politics thrown in as well, you could argue it started in the late 16th century for all it's worth

>that the "conflict" essentially devolved into a series of petty revenge attacks,
what was this a devolution from precisely, up until the 90's and approaching the GFA it was essentially the same old same old

>The scope of the IRA's campaign was unclear and disagreed upon almost the entire way through.
that's because it's been splintering and fragmenting since the War of Independence you spoon, there's never been a clear aim from one homogeneous IRA

>but did shitty by not capitalising on what the British/Loyalists did and instead fucking over republicans for decades by resorting to petty gang-tier attacks.
the majority of what you'd see as petty gang-tier attacks were normally 1) targeting places frequented by known Loyalists paras, British Army, civil service/RUC and spies, with frequent collateral of civilians, 2) accidental and pre-mature explosions that normally took the life of the bomb-carriers, 3) deliberate tit-for-tat style murders and murders with sectarian influences, the minority of attacks

>There was a clear split/divide between the members who wanted to fight the people oppressing them and the people who wanted to go and bomb some protestants.
not exactly, the IRA has been structured so that individuals can carry out their own 'business' as they see fit without much interference from a top-down command hierarchy sort of deal
Collins called it the "self contained unit"

>To call either side "good" however is reaching a bit
this is your problem, you accept that there was splintering it seems but you're still thinking in terms of "sides", which really isn't applicable when it comes to the Troubles in my opinon

>>2225756
1. Played is Star Wars, the Phantom of Menace, so sucks

2. Who?

1. Is he that drunk guy from Indiana Jones and the Grail?

>>2228969
I'm sure you weren't around for whatever period of history you are interested in, so fuck off humanities fag

>>2228969
>>2228967

>There's no historical value. It's just X and Y arguing about things they weren't around for

So, what, pretty much every historical debate ever?

Also, it's very possible that a lot of these people in these threads are from Northern Ireland and grew up to be the first generation born outside of it; their parents will have grown up during it.

It's an interesting juxtaposition.

>>2228991
>it's very possible that a lot of these people in these threads are from Northern Ireland and grew up to be the first generation born outside of it

Yeah, sounds pretty spot on.

I think nearly every person in these threads longposting is probably from NI, atleast from the south or Britain. Maybe its my own bias because it interests me but these threads move fairly quickly because their is an appetite to talk about not just the Troubles but NI a broader scope. This probably comes out in shitposting.

>>2228991
>So, what, pretty much every historical debate ever?
No. Historical debates are based on facts. This is just based on religious prejudice and nationalist memes.

>I'm sure you weren't around for whatever period of history you are interested in, so fuck off humanities fag
No. i wasn't. I just don't argue it as if it were a personal conflict.

>>2228701
>that image

What a lad.

Educate an Amerifat:

What counties were majority Protestant/Ulster?
What counties are majority Catholic/Irish?
What counties were left in the UK that were majority Catholic/Irish?
Were the IRA wanting to take ALL of Northern Ireland?

>>2229580
>What counties were majority Protestant/Ulster?

No county is majority Ulster. Ulster and Protestant aren't synonyms. Antrim, Armagh, Down and Derry are majority Protestant. Fermanagh and Tyrone are more mixed. The rest are majority Cathoilc but large majorities of Protestants exist in Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan.

What counties were left in the UK that were majority Catholic/Irish?

Only Fermanagh and Tyrone if you're talking demographics. The other four have Protestant majorities.

Were the IRA wanting to take ALL of Northern Ireland?

Unite Ireland, yes. As they see it it was only what was taken in 1920.

>>2225013
>Implying the troubles had anything to do with religion

>>2224853
what a fucking retard. the fact is majority of NI are unionist so the IRA can fuck off with their terrorist ways.

File: Ultimate Orange.jpg (19KB, 129x247px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 129x247px

>>2229878
this

>Be my ancestor in 1690.
> Throw in lot with William due to family being kicked/having to leave the isles over the course of history.
> Battle of the Boyne
> Hold some fucking bridge at the river.
> Good job here's some land and a sword.
> Cunt eldest daughter steals sword and melts it down into drinking cups.
> Be me, and have one of the cups.
> Others were snatched by Grand dad's wife for her dick head grandchildren.
> Try to learn more about family.
> Fucking Orange Order has seized all of the records and won't let me see.
> Not happy that i'm a Yank or something