What caused the Civil War, /his/?

>>2019611

whos the big guy?

>>2019627
Mr. Brown

Slavery

and the state's rights... to own slaves.

>>2019611
German money
Corrupt beaurocrats
Discontent from the Great war

>>2019611
Lincoln's mania for autogenocide.

>>2019652
No, the only Civil War that matters.

>>2019647
i bet you supported the supreme court overruling the states on gay marriage too

The South wanted the Federal government to uphold their laws regarding slaves.

The North wanted to maintain their states right to not recognize slavery as legitimate.

Something had to give.

>>2019696
No. That's just historical accuracy.

>>2019611
Immigrants from Scotland and Ireland instigated the war. They love wars, but not as much as Germans.

Immigrants from Germany started coming after the war. Imagine what those warmongers could have done.

Why is this same thread being posted so often?

>>2019696
>w-why doesn't the supreme court just let the states do whatever they want?
>it's almost like we have a constitution

>>2019611
States rights
/thread

>>2021812
>States rights
... to own slaves

>>2021881
No, states rights entirely. The intention of the north was to destroy states rights so the conspiracy could consolidate power. Slavery was just the first domino. It worked, and it went from being "These United States" to "The United States"

>>2019611
The Yugoslav wars were unironically started by a states rights issue as well.

>>2021806
>hey let's have a powerful centralized government enforce it's will on people far away
>surely that's what the founding fathers had in mind
>what do you mean the constitution was intended to prevent that, don't you know it's a living document :^)

>>2021806
Where in the constitution does it say fags can marry?

>>2019725
New York has no authority over Georgia

>>2021924
Nigger the Constitution was designed to have a stronger federal government, if that wasn't the goal then they'd have stuck with the Articles of Confederation. Also the founding fathers were by no means a monolith, they had profound disagreements on many issues. The Constitution was a heavy compromise by a large number of different interests. It was not Godking Jefferson's mind straight to the page while Emperor Madison watched on and smiled.

>>2019611
Because the bourgeoisie were upset with their lack of representation in the government and feared that their previous rights would be abolished, also the fact that Charles married a catholic, a French catholic at that, during the great European wars of religion further escalated tensions.

[spoiler] as England is the most important country to ever exist this is what you should first think offf when you hear civil war

South wanting to keep their slaves to prop up their dying economy for a little longer
North wanted to impose their hegemony on the south, a culturally, politically, and economically different region
>but muh states rights
yeah states rights to practice slavery

>>2022023
>It was not Godking Jefferson's mind straight to the page while Emperor Madison watched on and smiled.
prove it

>>2021788
>immigrants from Scotland and Ireland started the war
of all the shit I've heard, this is a new one
t. Irishman

>>2021935
well they did and they showed it
with force

>>2019611
The South was booty-blasted that through the process of local democracy, newly forming states were mostly voting in favor of being free states. They worried that with all these new states choosing non-slave status that they'd lose even more influence in congress, and that the free states would more and more vote in favorable economic legislation that benefited them instead of plantation owners. The South, in typical fashion, was being fucking stupid, childish, and shortsighted, for failing to see that their economic model (slavery), morality issues aside, was simply unsustainable in the long run and would have only amplified the disparity between them and the more prosperous North.

>>2019611
No matter how secessionists argue, it all leads to slavery.

>>2021932
There are two points from which can be interpreted-

All citizens are equal under federal law
Any document valid in one state is valid in another

A marriage license from one state remains valid in another, any federal court would upohold that.

Whether or not they could marry in a specific church, no, but they would be married regardless.

>>2021904
Vice President of the CSA does not agree with you.

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

>>2021935
Washington has authority over both.

>>2019611
Slave state rights

>>2019627
Based James Brown

>>2019611
Britain.

>>2022599
But the failure of the North was to do nothing to try and bring the South up to a level of industrialization where slavery no longer becomes the best economic model. The slave/free divide was entirely an economic issue and it's no coincidence that the Northern states that owned slaves abolished it as soon as they reached a certain level of industrialization.

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>>2019611
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWJpwc21Ft4

>>2022657
>Any document valid in one state is valid in another
That is an abolition of local government
>All citizens are equal under federal law
So why can't pedos marry children? Why can't zoophiles marry horses?

>>2024480
If you think that those things are the same as same sex marriage, I feel really bad for you. Did you not see the thread the other day?

>>2024480
>horses are citizens in the south

>>2024484
>If you think that those things are the same as same sex marriage, I feel really bad for you.
UGH I CAN'T EVEN
>>2024487
No, they're property. Shouldn't that make it even right?

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>>2024501
I don't think you can marry your property, but some states allow animal fucking.

>>2024501
>An agreement between two, consenting citizens is the same as a citizen attempting to marry property as if it were a citizen

No last time I checked my computer wasn't a US citizen. I wish I could marry it tho. 2D waifus a best

>>2024524
On the other hand - that's really something you shouldn't need to make a law to prevent.

>>2019611
Buchanan.

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>>2019611
>Southern States no longer wanted to be a part of the United States
>Lincoln didn't accept the southern states' right to succeed, despite the United States being founded on the right of self-determination
>Then he repeatedly invaded the south to force them to remain a part of the Union, without asking Congress to declare war because he didn't need to declare war because this isn't a war, I'm just collecting taxes.
>But it's also okay if I suspend habeas corpus and lock up the Legislature of Maryland to stop them from voting to succeed, because we're at war.
End of story.

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>>2019627
The biggest social justice warrior of all time.
Got what he deserved.

>>2022023
>The founders wanted a central government slightly stronger than the articles of confederation so it's okay if it gets so powerful and tyranical that all the powers specifically set aside to the states is usurped :^)
>what's wrong. the founders wanted this. :^)

>>2024580
>what is firing upon Fort Sumpter?

>>2024580

>succeed

It's "secede", anon.

>>2024610
fuck

>>2024608
what is the right to self-determination, anon?
when a people no longer want to be ruled over, they always have the right to remove the government they no longer recognize.

>>2024619
What about a man's right to be born free and equal in rights?

Some people in early colonial America were lazy fucks who didn't want to build a proper business so they brought over Africans.

The continued to be lazy and brought more and more.

We've been paying ever since. We should send the direct decedents of large plantations to Africa as revenge.

>>2024643
that's literally exactly what I'm saying, anon
slavery is an abomination
Do you realize the fallacy of enslaving everyone in the southern slaves, rejecting their autonomy and forcing them to remain in the union and pay their taxes to a government they did not recognize, in order to "free" the slaves who are now just as enslaved as their previous masters without the right of self-determination.

>>2024588
That would rather imply slavery was not a great moral evil.

John Brown was a hero.

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>>2024674
>Go around murdering people for living by the laws of the land
>hero

>slavery was always cruel and immoral
>most slaves were cognitively impaired savages incapable of taking care of themselves and got fed and housed for minimal amounts of farm work
kys

>>2024695
Morality and the law are not synonymous. A man must make a stand against an unjust law, a violent one if the cause is great enough.

Such hatred and revisionism makes me question your cognitive ability, rather than that of the slaves.

>>2024709
Why should he make a stand against an unjust law that not only doesn't harm him, but also could benefit him? Who is he to decide what is unjust on behalf of other people?

>>2024740
A man with moral certainty vindicated by history.

Had he been wrong, he would have been just another terrorist crank, he wasn't. Slavery was an abomination.

>>2021932
All Men Under God, you piece of shit.

>>2024480
Because those are breaking laws. Homosexuality does not.

>>2019611
We really should have just let them leave.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

>>2024619
And the now foreign government has the right to retaliate for the assault on their power.

>We want to be our own nation
>Okay cool but we stop you now
>N-no! You can't do that!

>>2019627
for you

>>2024915
so to you it's literally just a matter of might makes right then?
If you can successfully conquer a people, then its totally cool to do so?
By that logic slavery is totally fine. Is that what you're saying?

>>2024953
Nope. Because the people who said so kicked your ass.

The south chimped out

Modern southerners have deluded themselves into thinking it was about state's rights

>>2019611
One of these dumbass states rights threads again
YES IDIOTS THE WAR WAS OVER THE STATE'S RIGHTS TO OWN SLAVES JUST AS A MILLION OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD HAVE SAID! STOP MAKING THESE DUMBASS BROKEN RECORD THREADS

>>2024527
>sodomites are degenerates
What else is new
>>>/lgbt/
>>2024524
You can't marry property just like you can't marry a man.
>>2024907
>the state determines what is right
kys

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>>2021904

>>2024608
A response to an act of war (Placing a fort on foreign soil)

>>2024643
The slaves had more rights in the fields than in the factories

>>2019611
Sokovia accords

>>2024915
That foreign government had an illegal millitary base on sovereign Confederate soil

>>2022666
Nice try Satan, you almost had me

>>2025040
>slavery apologists
back to fucking /pol/ with you

>>2024981
>Because the people who said so kicked your ass.
So your philosophy is literally the strongest decide the rules, and that makes it right.

>>2025053
I didn't say slavery was good, i said slavery where your needs are provided for is better than slavery where you need to provide for yourself

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>>2025075
Better according to who? Should i just enslave you and put you on a cotton plantation now because you think that would be better than fending for yourself? The fucking idiots on this board omfg

>>2025031
>kys
Okay, other reason: an adult can properly consent. A horse cannot. Nor can a child to a pedo. Either way, you're a retard.

>>2025088
Get back in the factory you filthy worker

>>2025068
I'm not who started this initially. I was being tongue-in-cheek.

>>2025089
It ok for me to eat someone alive if they consent?

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>>2025088
>"I sure do love freeedom!"

>>2025108
If you're both in your right mind and have a witness? Probably, yeah. Just makes you both freaky.

As to whether or not your state agrees is another question. Like it or not, it's a question you should answer.

>>2025045
>sovereign Confederate soil
The confederacy did not legally exist. All of the territory it controlled was sovereign US soil

>It was about states rights! Those Yankee bastards were trying to strip us of our rights!
>What was the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850

>>2025188
also
>who was Dred Scott

>>2025113
>>2025096
So you're saying the ideal society is where everyone is enslaved by a few wealth landowners on plantations? Your idea is nowhere near as edgy/intelligent/outside the box as you think it is. It's just dumb.

>>2019611
Differences in Economic bases.

>>2025031
>He doesn't want to fucc bois

>>2024287
The North actually gave the South plenty of chances to benefit from infrastructure investment and industrialization. What happened was the aristocratic plantation class knew doing so would erode the old world feudal society they were forming and thus intentionally sabotaged their own states economic well being by opposing infrastructural and economic improvements as they would have rather been kings of a pile of shit than be equals in utopia.

>>2025129
You disgust me. Kill yourself, communist scum.

>>2025155
The Confederate states exorcised their constitutional right to secession
The land was theirs

>>2025322
Are you retarded?

>>2025458
>The North actually gave the South plenty of chances to benefit from infrastructure investment and industrialization.
No they didn't. The plan was to destroy the south so they could get rich. They wanted the war, it was decades in the making.
>intentionally sabotaged their own states economic well being
You're delusional. Do you wear tinfoil?

>>20254954
Answer my question you moron.

SLAVEZ WERE BETTER OFF IN INDENTURED SERVITUDE ON PLANTATIONZ THAN BEING FREE TO WORK WHERE THEY CHOZE!

Fucking retard.

>>2025574
>only option is the factory or mine
>anywhere they want

>>2025578
Total bullshit. The freedom to have the choice is what matters you idiot.

>>2025578
And whether working in a factory or a mine was worse than a plantation is completely subjective.

>>2019611
tl;dr war of northern aggression

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>>2025038

>>2025590
>be slave
>get "freed"
>have to work for myself now
>have to feed mouths
>only work is the field
>go work in the exact same buisiness i was enslaved in
>get payed enough to afford 1/4 of what i had as a slave
freedom never tasted so good

>>2025635
>lies

>>2025639
Do you get the concept that maybe freedom doesn't really have a price? It's a human right and also one that was guaranteed under the constitution. inb4 meme that all were created equal didn't include slaves.

>>2025645
>inb4 meme that all were created equal didn't include slaves.
"Authorial intent? Lol who cares it's a living document!"
Also it said all white men were created equal.

>>2025654
>Also it said all white men were created equal.
>meme

>>2025639
>While the black population in the late nineteenth century suffered severely from poverty and racism, the relative changes were quite extraordinary. The rate of literacy for blacks, for example, increased by 200 percent in the 15 years from 1865 to 1880 and 400 percent from 1865 to 1900. Based on the work of two other historians, he points out that "black per capita income in these seven states [of the lower South] jumped from a relative level of only 23 percent of white income under slavery to 52 percent of the white level by 1880. Thus, while blacks still had a standard of living only half as high as whites in the poorest region of the country ... this relative redistribution of income within the South was by far the greatest in American history.

>>2025641
>i don't like it so it's a lie
http://www.civilwarhome.com/sumterownership.html

>>2025658
It literally did. I've seen the original.
>>2025659
>sheeit massah, i's can reads now
>>2025662
>the south attacked for literally no reason
lmao

>>2025491
If it makes you feel any better, replace "state," with "community." Effect is the same.

>>2024580
the fractious cocksuckers should have been banished to the ocean

>>2024709
>A man must make a stand against an unjust law

Nah.

>>2024655
>Just as enslaved
Kek

>>2024480
>abolition of local government
hope you enjoy having 6 driver's licenses then to go anywhere
>horses and children
Because society has deemed fucking horses and children is cruel and harmful to the advancement of society. Two adults consenting to sex is not.

>>2021812
t. butthurt redneck

>>2024580
don't make us send sherman back down there boy

>>2027284
i agree, it's hard enough to leave mommy's basement for tendies

>>2024480
Acktually, that license bit is a power specified in the US constitution.

>>2019611
Slavery. As more free states were created the slave states felt more and more pressured until eventually they chimped out

Wow we just talked about this picture in my APUSH class, anon, can anyone back me up on that John Brown was depicted as Moses in this picture

>>2019611

the nature of human beings that they always have and always will engage in territorial wars.

The south was tired of getting pushed around by the north, so they left and damn near won a war that they were severely outnumbered and outgunned.
If Jackson had survived they would have won

>>2021924
> hey let's not have a powerful centralized government and also try to carry slavery on indefinitely
> *loses war*

>>2024588
Everything he wanted?

>>2028327
> and damn near won the war
lol

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>>2028348
we won every single battle up until Jackson died,
If he had survived Gettysburg would have been a cinch then once they had retained control of the Mississippi we focus on on William "its not war crimes because its against the enemy" Tecumseh Sherman

>>2025500

If you say tinfoil you've lost the argument.

>>2028368
>we

>>2028398
not an argument

>>2028368
Funny one, mate.

>>2028368
>we

That rather implies you are a teeny bit personally invested in this, with all the biases that implies.

>>2021806
READ THE TENTH AMENDMENT
Now, tell me the amendment that says you have a right to marry whomever you want.

>>2028534
Fed has the right to regulate intestate commerce and arbitration.

To this end, they have to be able to regulate contracts between states. Something signed in one state must still be recognized in another state.

Do you see where this is headed?

Why do you even want marriage to be a Government institution anyway?

>>2028368
>we won every single battle up until Jackson died

you know that's a portrait of Nathan Bedford Forrest(arguably the most interesting general of the war), and not Jackson.

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>>2024762
>Vindicated by history.

There's a huge flaw in your logic. By praising him, you're implying that there are certain moral positions which are right regardless of whether people believe in them or not, yet your whole rationale for him being a hero is that people believe in it.

In short, kill yourself.

>>2028374
t. YOu

>>2019611
>>2019627
If you're ever in Topeka, Kansas. This is a mural painted on the rotunda of the State Capitol. It's huge and glorious.

>>2019611
The south thought they were losing power in the union and that they where turning into a "colony" of the north. They wanted to spread slavery to the western states so that they could have more states that had similar goals.They felt they didn't have a say in the government and thought they had the right to succeed. It was more of a balance of power problem where the south believed they didn't have enough say and wanted to leave. They were sacred of losing their slaves because the southern economy was driven by slavery. Slavery did play a major roll but it wasn't really a war for slavery.

>>2028598
>Fed has the right to regulate intestate commerce and arbitration.
The fed is an antiamerican plot to destroyed frredom

>>2028598
>To this end, they have to be able to regulate contracts between states. Something signed in one state must still be recognized in another state.
Abolition of local government

>>2028004
>Because society has deemed
What if society deemed eradication of Jews a moral necessity

>>2021935
>>2021935
That isn't the issue he's talking about. The southern states believed it was their right to bring their property(slaves) to the western states. Where the north and south butted heads is if slaves could be brought west.

>>2021924
The founding fathers literally rattified the constitution for a stronger central government.

>>2025322
dude calm down he isn't advocating or supporting slavery he's just saying factory workers at the time had just as shit live or even shitier

>>2022657
Republic is just a dank meme that can only ever be tyrannical. True democracy is superior and has never been tried.

>>2024608
>building a fort isn't an act of war but trying to remove it is :^)

>>2030127
>he's just saying factory workers at the time had just as shit live or even shitier
But it's wrong.

>>2024580
do you enjoy lying on the internet

>>2030188
It's true. The average european worker had far worse living standards that the average black slave.

Check your black privilege.

>>2030210
Repeating falsehoods doesn't make them true.

>>2030222
>falsehoods
Except they're not. It's common knowledge.

>>2030237
The claim that the average european worker had far worse living standards that the average slave is competently false.

>>2030261
>competently

>>2030304
You win!

>>2030315
Evidently (not evitly).

>>2019611
>What caused the Civil War, /his/?
posting bait threads on 4chan.org/his/

>>2030070
Non sequitur

>>2019611
>""""""""""states rights""""""""""
The Southern states chimping out about slavery

>>2032891
Nazi Germany is a non sequitur?