Perfidious Arab

Forgot about Slovakia.

It makes sense why the have Arab genes. Slovakia was apart of Hungary during its conquest by the Turks and Slovakia represented the Ottomans northernmost border so they settled Muslim Arabs from the middle-east there.

>>1881036
They are getting the rest of them now. Mashallah

>>1881036
This make no sense whatsoever, it's got nothing to with Arabs, Arabs didn't raid regions in the Afriatic so that distribution is non sensical, and they DID settle in Piedmont and elsewhere in Norh western Italy but there's no thrace of it in that map, I highly doubt that haplogroup came to Europe with Arabs, it's got probably to do with some pre historical or proto historical migration, maybe with Phoenicians and Syrians seeing that it's present in Sardinia and Southern Iberia

>>1881078
There's also the matter of Corsica, which has never once been controlled by Muslims of any kind.

>>1881118
Sardinia has never been controlled by muslims either

>>1881036
>>Hungary (Arabs were settled there by the Ottomans as frontiersmen)

I have doubts and questions. When did any Arab find the time to settle northern Switzerland, the furthest north of Spain, or Tuscany? And aren't these haplogroup charts tracking human settlement impact going back thousands of years instead of more recent history?

>>1881131
No, iirc it was controlled by the Umayyad and subsequently the Abbasids for about 50 years. Still, there's no way that the Sardinian population was "Arab'd" in such a short amount of time. Pretty much every foreign power that has ever held Sardinia has controlled it for longer.

>>1881036
J1-P58 came into Southern Europe with the Phoenicians, and the Arabs only reintroduced some more of what was already there in Southern Italy, North Africa, and Spain.

>>1881151
>No, iirc it was controlled by the Umayyad and subsequently the Abbasids for about 50 years.

Hum no, there's no recorded ruler of Sardinia or Islamic structure ever found in Sardinia, nor there are any islamic loan words, they had to launch several attacks every century from 700 to 1015 ad and they were always repelled, the most they managed to do was control a small part of the south of the isalnd for like 6 months before they were expelled by the other Sardinian giudicati with the helo of the Genoan and Pisans.

>>1881155
>nor there are any islamic loan words

I meant Arabic loan words, brain fart.

>>1881036
>>Switzerland (likely moorish raiders went up there and settled through conversion perhaps?)
Saracens, aka Berber Moors from Spain, plundered the Abby of St. Gall and some other shit. Sarasin is still a well known Swiss surname.

>>1881078

Phoenicans = Sophisticated Arabs

Facts don't lie, J1-P58 comes from the gulf and is associated with the purest Arab. Phoenicans themselves are actually from eastern Arabia.

>>1881478
> Phoenicans themselves are actually from eastern Arabia.


Phoenicians are from Lebanon, not Arabia, you can stop shitposting now.

>>1881478
>Phoenicans = Sophisticated Arabs
Please don't post ever again. That's like saying Italians are fancy Romanians. Not every Semite is practically a Jew or an Arab. Why do people still hold onto this delusion? Is it just laziness.

>>1881136

Moorish raiders of Arab ancestry settled in Switzerland. For Hungary it's the same deal but with Arabs that the Ottomans settled.

This is not going back thousands of years, otherwise why doesn't Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, and Bosnia lack these genes? Simple because in the Balkans they were conquered by the Turks before the Turks conquered Arab lands. After the conquest of the middle-east by Selim his son began the incursion in central Eastern Europe and thus most likely settled Arabs his father had conquered in those areas as frontiersmen since they were Muslims that would defend a hotly contested land that they just recently settled. This is my opinion on it.

>>1881506
>>1881490
because you're responding to "le iron pill" /pol/tard

>>1881490

wrong. Their ancestors came from Arabia. If Phoenicans are J1-P58 than they are Arabs since all gulf Arabs have this yHg is high percentages.

>>1881528
Yeah since they share a haplogroup they are the same right?

That means Sicilians are the same as French because tey share r1b

the oldest basal J1 we have is from the Caucasus, it's perfectly possible that's neolithic shit, and indeed IIRC some neolithic farmers did have J1 already

the Arabian peninsula hasn't been inhabited by the same people since forever, it also experienced an invasion of people who brought then farming

in fact, Arabs from the arabian peninsula are among the ones who are most closely related to ancient Natufians, autosomally speaking, who lived in the levant

>>1881548

No, they share the exact same haplogroup of J1, it's specific. Your comparison is essentially apples and oranges.

>>1881560

Why don't western Balkan people close to Greece have this specific haplogroup? Because it's recent and deals with settlements, wars, raids, conquests etc..

>>1881586
mate the percentages are so low, you are taking that chart as if it's anything but amateur shit

>>1881078
yeah, seems more like it. Probably some roman colonists and Mediterranean trade near the port cities.

I mean, why would it be concentrated in Switzerland, Szekelyland and northern Moldova, of all places?

>>1881597
I mean, looking at Albania for instance, the charts shows none, but from Wikipedia, a study from 2004 shows 3.6% of J1

>>1881036
>>>/int/

>>1881628

J1 is not specific. In Albania'a case they have a different clade probably from Jews. I'm talking about J1-P58 which Albania in this case lacks, same with Bosnia, and other western Balkan countries.

>>1881600

>Presence in Switzerland = Moorish raiders
>Presence in Hungary, Moldova, Ukraine = Arab colonists settled as frontiersmen by the Ottomans

It all makes sense.

>>1881510
It's also speculation without any facts to back it up. A relative handful of Moors raided into Switzerland, but only for a few decades. That's not enough to leave behind that level of genetic legacy. Furthermore Ottoman policy was to settle Anatolians, not Syrians and Arabians, in Europe. The reason the Western Balkans lack this specific contribution is because the region isn't great for farming, which the Bronze Age Middle Eastern settlers that arrived in Southern Europe and Romania were doing.

>>1881528
J1-P58 originates somewhere on the border of Anatolia and Mesopotamia, and only appears in Arabia because Arabia was later colonized by their descendants.

Finally, what does any of this have to do with perfidy?

>>1881702
a) we are talking about the middle of romania here. If we are talking about hungary,
the frontier of what? mountains and vassals?
Besides, we should have seen settling near the austrian border, in that case.
and moldova and wallachia were vassals. they paid specifically to be exempt from this.

Besides, as the anon bellow me said, they settled turks, not arabs.

>>1881690
you can hardly say it lacks, from that study I named for instance it is not specified, and the sample size is quite small(56)
if the chart you are posting is made using the available sources, then it can be misleading for countries which are kinda irrelevant ad understudied

in any case, it could be even older stuff, J1-P58 is still something likely thousands and thousands years old, the med area has had much more contacts with ancient near easterners like phoenicians and the like, not to mention jews, some lineages can easily survive

but moreover, there is an increasing gradient of near easterner related ancestry in south-east Europe which isn't neolithic in origin and it's strongly linked with J2 and partly E-V13, there must have been some movements in the bronze age(related to the spread of metallurgy perhaps?), and some of those lineages could've arrived among those, after all, the near east was basically a sink where different farmer populations mixed with each other

that period and that area is kinda understudied atm I think

>>1881036
back to
>>>/pol/

>>1881808
>in the bronze age

You mean neolithic

>>1881821
no, in the neolithic you have Otzi-like folks from anatolia, mostly G2a and I2 folks similar to modern Sardinians, with heavier paleoEuropean ancestry as well
the later ones have increased ancestry both from neolithic Iran(which is where you find the oldest J* lineages, as a matter of fact) and from the Levant

>>1881808

J1-P58 is associated with Arabs. No deflecting please, these nations in Europe with Arab ancestry should just accept it and I bet you hail from one of them.

>>1881834

G2a, E-V13 and J2 all arrived in Europe right around Neolithic expansion some 10,000 years ago.

J1-P58 in Europe is not because of the Neolithic revolution in Europe since western Balkan countries lack this gene.

>>1881848
>10,000

You mean 8,000 years

File: fff.png (15KB, 780x114px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 780x114px

>>1881839
It simply doesn't work like that, you are deflecting the counter arguments. R1b peaks in western Europe nowadays yet you won't find basically a single R1b bearing dude in Europe until the epipaleolithic and the bronze age with the exception of 1 single sample.
The timelines are compatible with it being old.
And besides, Y-DNA has little bearing on overall ancestry.

>>1881848
>G2a, E-V13 and J2 all arrived in Europe right around Neolithic expansion some 10,000 years ago.
barely though, anatolian neolithics were mostly G2a and I2, they did found some of those other lineages but in very small percentages, smaller in fact than what you see nowadays, and we do have quite a lot of samples
and moreover, they don't show significant 'west asian' ancestry if you will

If youre european youve got jewish ancestry, if not literal jews, the same racial stock from the same area

>>1883265

how do you come to this conclusion?

File: Habloshit.jpg (4MB, 4895x3453px)

4MB, 4895x3453px

Tfw

>>1881036
>>Southern France

DAILY REMINDER THAT BETWEEN 1-3% THIS IS A FALSE POSITIVE!

>>1881848
modern frequencies don't always represent historical haplogroup makeup, as some genes can be lost ala genetic drift.

besides, most of the neolithic european ancestry is found in southern european countries like sardinia and italy

>>1884404
>Algeria has more R1b marker than parts of urope

>>1881036
>those spots on Moldova
Guess I'm an Ahmed.

Allahu Ackbar! Were da blonde kuffar women at?

>>1881036
The ottomans didn't settle arabs at the frontiers they settled nomadic turks.

>>1884450
>From Moldova
You were destined to be a rapist senpai

>>1881036
Not even cloase ot half of Europe kek.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet friendo

>>1881036
Vidin and Kyustendil confirmed for Srbomans

>>1884464
They didn't settle nomadic turks either. By the time the Turks moved into the Balkans in earnest, they'd already been "Anatolian'd."