Why did so many Christians turn into atheism ?

it's logical?

>>1792003
???
Logical to believe that everything happened magically ?

They did?

>>1792009
Atheism is by definition nothing more than the lack of a belief in deities. Has nothing to do with "everything happening"
Stop being so spooked.

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>>1792009
>atheism
>literally lack of belief
>god isn't magic

>>1792024
So Atheists don't believe a God created the Universe. So for them everything happened accidentally yeah.

>>1792063
I told you to stop being so spooked, anon. Stop.

>>1791998

They read the Bible. Why do you think the Church was against it for so long?

>>1792066
I'm not the same anon. But where's your argument.

>>1792063
>everything happened accidentally yeah.
How's that a problem?

>>1792071
Right here
>>1792024

>>1792063
Christians don't believe a Super God created God. So for them God happened accidentally

>>1791998
From what ive seen this is a common thing happening to most of the abrahamic religions. Jews are mostly unreligious and muslims are starting to have the same problem more modern countries. The whole passive nature toward islam in islamic countries is one of the reasons why the extremists are chimping out there.

>>1792063
Why do religious people think it's a bigger leap of faith to believe thing exist without a deity? Even if you believe in a god, surely you have to explain where the god came from and then you're stuck with the same fucking problem.

>>1792081
>inb4 he was always there

>>1792009
Isn't Christianity the belief that everything happened magically?
If you're talking about evolution, that's not magical or as random as you think. If you're talking about the big bang, it's something we're in the process of studying, however there are plenty of resources you can peruse at your leisure that will inform you of popular theories and modern discoveries.

>>1792081
>not believe in Super God

ur ass is gonna get ravaged on Super Judgement Day

>>1791998
ex-christian atheist here.

because the bible contradicts evolution

>>1792081
What a fucking way of thinking. Since God is the First and the Last, No one created Him but He created everything other than Himself.

>>1792106
But where the god come from?

>>1792106
If the universe needs to be explained, doesn't God also? the Big Bang theory doesn't even prove that the universe had a beginning and wasn't eternal, it just shows that the universe expanded from a single point which existed for who knows how long

Science.

>>1792106
>Since God is the First and the Last

You didn't establish this, you just claimed this. You're just backing up a claim with another claim

>>1792092
You're quite lucky to be alive then. Our bodies are too perfect to make me believe everything happened magically. Each organ has a specific function, everything is made for us to be able to live.

>>1792081
>It's Gods all the way down.

>>1792108
There are things you can't explain, but that are true. Is it to hard to believe there is a God who is above Natural and Rational Laws ? Since He's God, everything is possible if you admit He's Almighty.

>>1792106
Alright, the universe just exists. No big bang, no science. It just exists. My claim is at least as valid as yours.

Since 98% people on 4chan are atheist or American Christians, it's the proof atheists are retarded.

>>1792136
Does it not bother you that you've had to take a position of 'my deity is impossible and that's okay' to deal with the logical improbability of its existence?

>>1792141
You meant God just exists.

>>1792145
Why atheists and not Shartian Christians?

>>1792149
I'm OP, thanks so that's why christians turned into retarded beings.

>>1792085
Lot easier to believe in a deity who is so powerful that they always existed than what atheists need to believe.

>nothing suddenly created a dense ball of everything that would explode into the universe

Theories like multiple universes or looping universes still need to explain the primary mover.

>>1792157
I am absolutely sure I didn't, but you're welcome to restate your argument.

>>1792141
Everything has a Creator except God since He's the Creator. If you still believe the position and function of your heart, lung, liver, stomach and especially brain are the product of accident you do have a real problem. And that's just one example, the world is too complex to have been created accidentally.

>>1792122
>perfectly made
What about the spleen and pancreas? Wisdom teeth? Back pain?
It would seem that if our bodies were actually "perfectly designed" then they wouldn't have unnecessary parts.
Further, your don't have to attempt to disprove science in order to be a Christian. Just one man's opinion

>>1792177
Have you ever read anything written by Stephen Hawking?

>>1792177
>Theories like multiple universes or looping universes still need to explain the primary mover.

And people who assume a primary mover need explain why such a mover would need to possess any form of consciousness

>>1792205
Or why a perfect being would do anything (or indeed, could do anything without in some capacity changing).

>>1792192
Please enlighten me, since I can smell your unwashed ego from across the screen.

Come on, don't be a faggot who just name drops. How does Hawkings explain how nothing became everything?

>>1792189
Yes perfectly made. Everyone has to suffer from something to remind them they aren't master of their fate, that they don't own their own body. It's a reminder.

>>1792215
I haven't either, but I also don't comment on the origin of the universe. I just think that if you're going to claim that the scientific origin of the universe is hard to believe, you ought to actually read something from an expert on the subject. I've read the Bible, and I've read Plato's works, and I plan to read Aristotle's works. So why don't yo do the same with the theories you're opposed to?

>>1792188
>product of accident you do have a real problem
accident is a retarded way to describe natural processes.

>the world is too complex to have been created accidentally.
how complex exactly is too complex? Like a seven on the complex-ometer? Such a stupid argument, there's no upper limit on complexity, you're just picking an arbitrary level of detail.

>>1792217
>Yes perfectly made.

No, because if it was, it would never break down. In fact, if our organs were perfectly made, we would probably die out as a species.

Also, you spouting this design nonsense probably means you fell for the survivorship bias. There have been so many studies on this bias that it amazes me that people still fall for it

>>1792177
It's easier in the sense that our brains assume intent in everything maybe. It certainly isn't more logical.

Also, atheists don't need to believe in anything. The word merely states a lack of believe, not a belief in science.

>>1792217
Thats not perfect though. Thats intentional imperfection

>>1792188
>the world is too complex to have been created accidentally.

Life and the universe are both complicated because it's been interacting and building upon itself with it's available energy for billions of years. To use your example of internal organs, life was initially just simplistic sphere microbes, that became more complicated and specialized over millions of years of evolution.

>>1792217
>every flaw can be handwaved away as intentional

Oh if only we gave product designers such leniency. The Ford Pinto would be heralded as a masterpiece.

>>1792188
If the world is too complex to exist by accident, if a heart is too complex, then how could a creator diety 'just exist'? Surely it would be incredibly complex itself.

>>1792189
> wisdom teeth
I have a friend who lost two teeth, if it wasn't for his wisdom teeth, he'd look uglier than he was.

>>1792188
>If you still believe the position and function of your heart, lung, liver, stomach, and especially brain are the product of accident you do have a real problem.

Well the answer to that was discovered about a hundred and half years ago, called evolution.

>>1792267
Not him, but the standard response to that is divine simplicity. A creator deity would by its very nature have to be absolutely perfect in design, and thus absolutely simple and indivisible. To which the standard rebuttal is that this doesn't suggest a thinking entity (I personally think it's stronger evidence for something along the lines of the Tao or Plato's form of the Good).

>>1792277
Im getting mine pulled because theyre about to fuck up my other ones. Truly a masterful desig

>>1792256
Where did you park your DeLorean ? It seems like you witnessed the beginning of life "millions of years" ago.
>inb4 same can be said about religion
Not really since Religions don't claim they know exactly what happened billions or millions years ago, but only claim there's a Creator.

>>1792233
Because none of them even come close to answering the primary mover question. If you noticed, I do know the main atheist scientist arguments like multiple universes or looping universes.

Also I'd say attempting to shut down any Intelligent Design argument counts as commenting on the universe. So don't act like you're in some place of moral authority.

>>1792254
Exactly what is logical of putting more faith in a universe made accidentally by nothing without any way to answer were the original matter came from?

>>1792136
So your answer to "there are things we are still trying to explain" is "there is a magical Being that is impossible to explain"? And you're trying to claim that a perfect Creator wouldn't create a perfect, logically-internal universe? And you're additionally claiming that you somehow understand this Being through Christianity (which also claims that you CAN'T understand this Being, which makes you a filthy fucking heretic of a self-contradicting religion) instead of the dozens of other major religions the world has spawned? And you're also trying to claim that this vast, perfect Being wants to divulge its presence to its creation because of its imperfect, jealous egotism, and that it does so through random Middle Eastern prophets that have contradicted each other repeatedly? And you're also, also trying to claim that the scripture of Christianity wasn't composed by imperfect men, and whose antecedents sinfully exploited religious power structures for millennia with no divine punishment despite promulgating heresy and sin? And you're also, also, also trying to claim that you're not a blind, dogmatic idiot whose given no independent thought as to his religious views, the history of his religion and its predecessors, or the nature of God?

>>1792305
>It seems like you witnessed the beginning of life "millions of years" ago.

Indeed I did.

>>1792310
It's much simpler. You only have to justify everything that exists.

>>1792310
>without any way to answer were the original matter came from

What original matter?

>>1792310
>Because none of them even come close to answering the primary mover question.

Except I know for a fact Hawking has commented on the subject of what came before the universe, he mentions it in an interview where he's talking about the pope coming to a scientific conference to say "don't talk about that."

Also

>I haven't actually read up on the subject, but I know they don't answer my questions.

>Also I'd say attempting to shut down any Intelligent Design argument counts as commenting on the universe. So don't act like you're in some place of moral authority.

But I am in a place of moral authority. Would you consider me justified in calling someone a fucking idiot for commenting as an authority on Christian doctrine if they hadn't read the Bible?

>>1792327
Ok, in that case don't understand why atheists are so keen on jerking themselves off like they're so much smarter than theists.

They literally accept ignorance as their comfort zone. Perfect sheep for a nihilistic society.

>>1792320
Who said I believe in Christianity, Hinduism, or Islam ?

>>1792339
>Ok, in that case don't understand why atheists are so keen on jerking themselves off like they're so much smarter than theists.

You only perceive it as such because you choose to maintain your own state of ignorance.

Protip: someone being more knowledgeable than you is not attacking you in being so.

>>1792122
>Magically

Our bodies aren't particularly perfect and contain quite a few flaws.
Everything isn't made for us to be able to live, rather we've adapted (Not actively) to be able to live on this planet.
We're capable of living on earth currently and that's also subject to change if any of the numerous past events on earth that resulted in mass extinctions are any indication.

>>1792188
>If you still believe the position and function of your heart, lung, liver, stomach and especially brain are the product of accident you do have a real problem.

A proper understanding of evolution explains this.

>>1792305
>Were you there?

I can't believe we've reached this low of a level already.

>>1792339
Ignorance of ignorance isn't better than professed ignorance.

>>1792339
Oh, yeah, all the atheist scientists that spend their lives dedicated to research and study are totally accepting ignorance as their comfort zone. Great point.

>>1792332
Oh you know for a fact despite admitting to have never read anything of Hawkings?

Then provide sources for your arguments, especially since now you're claiming the Pope was trying to censor information.

>>1792339
Atheists don't do anything, all they share is a lack of belief in a specific kind of thing.

But my point is that explaining all that is is an ongoing process that explains the 'in-explainable' step by step. It doesn't have to bother also justifying a deity that exists outside the bounds of logic.

>>1792352
There is nothing more knowledgeable about shrugging and saying "I dunno, but I know you're wrong *tip*"

That's just pure arrogance, typical of atheist cunts.

>>1792374

>accuse people of being arrogant and condescending
>call them 'cunts' for disagreeing with you

Never change, Christcucks

>>1792365
I didn't realize every atheist on the internet who attacks Intelligent Design but offers no alternative was taking part in the research on the universe...

>>1792362
> I can't believe we've reached this low of a level
What an argument. Did you were there ? Did scientists were there ? It's not totally dumb. How can you trust scientists who claim that this and this happened billions years ago. There are only theories, they didn't prove or explain anything.

>>1791998
Because they have not been properly catechized and easily succumb to poor arguments which have no real grounding if one understands the religion.

>>1792389
And now here's the true face of atheists, two faced people who suck off their own perceived superiority despite it all being based on knowing nothing.

>>1792374
>>1792389
>>1792408
Does this thread really have to descend to name calling?

>>1792396
Yeah, that's totally a claim I made, great job. You're also correct that every atheist that isn't a scientist is just wallowing in ignorance, as opposed to those superior theists that aren't wallowing in ignorance because they have faith in the one true belief system of Christianity/Islam/Hinduism/Chinese polytheism/tribal animism.

>>1791998
Not a /his/ question but I'll bite. I'm assuming you live in a Western country where Christianity is popular. Many people just get disillusioned with major religions in their area because of how irritating believers can get. You know what I'm talking about; we've all seen at least one Christcuck who wanted to make a scene and let everybody know why their religion is "the best." Nothing against Christians, though, because atheists can be just as unbearable.

>>1792374
You're right anon.
Claiming to know the so-proclaimed unknowable and then telling everyone who asks you about it to "Just reach out to the unknowable and read this book detailing some total unknowns claiming to know the unknowable because they were directly guided by the unknowable or you'll burn in eternal judgement" is the utmost of humble actions.
Damn the arrogance of atheists who want to believe in things that could possibly be proven wrong if they actually were wrong.
I of course have nothing against those humble atheists who also profess to believe in other completely unfounded things such as homeopathy.

>>1792399
Were you there isn't an argument.
I trust them because their various dating methods agree that etc happened billions of years ago.
Theories exist because they are explanatory in nature.

Shit.
Now we've gone beyond "Were you there" and well into "It's just a Theory" territory.

>>1792408
sounds exactly like religoius people to me desu

>>1792408

Getting a little christriggered there

christfags itt:
>hurr you have no proof

meanwhile they believe in god just because a book written by some old homophobic jews said so

>>1792410
I'm just about done since atheists can only attack theist views while offering nothing in return. Frankly it's this destructive mentality that makes me even as an agnostic hate atheists. They'll attempt to destroy a theists beliefs to feed their own ego and let what remains to plunge into nihilism.

At least when theist challenge different beliefs it's done because of divine command rather than self indulging egotism and it offers a new typically healthy lifestyle rather than leaving people crushed and empty of meaning.

To answer the OP, poor catechism, a free secular society that is anti Christian and economic prosperity all lead to nominal Christians becoming atheists.

>>1792423
It is an /his/ question since he is implying Christians "converted" to atheism.

>>1792452
THIS

+1, my good gentlesir

>>1792414
>>1792438
>You're wrong you stupid theist! My proof? I don't need any, you're just wrong XD

Considering pretty much nothing in the bible ever actually happened it's safe to say God either doesn't exist or he has nothing to do with Christianity

>>1792475
Theists are the ones making absurd claims without evidence, my dude.

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

In an ideal world, people would still be christian because it's such a huge part of western culture

>>1791998
>Why did so many Christians turn into atheism ?

I read the bible.

>>1792471
>/r/atheism

Actually science tends to prove that God exists.

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The availability of information via the internet.

>>1792528
nice bait my man

>>1792528

>christtards actually believe this

I bet it does, in the same way that gender studies totally 'proof' that feminism is right

>>1791998
None do, actually.

Why do people like you not believe anything anybody ever says, unless they say "I used to be a Christian."?

Do you believe that caterpillars used to be butterflies?

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>>1792189

Wisdom teeth are actually a problem because of our soft diet.
We don't chew enough tough food.
Our jaws are meant to grow past 18 years old because most of us should have enough space for one more tooth in each quadrant of our jaws.

But yes our bodies are far from perfect. We have to question the intelligence of any possible designer of our bodies.
Maybe this creator was more of a designer than an engineer. It's pretty disappointing that a entity supposedly capable of perfection creates so many flaws then never corrects the flaws and errors. And expects you to worship said creator as perfection.

I have no problem with Christians until they start trying to pull some anti science bullshit out of their asses.

Swarthy goathearders from 2000 years ago don't know more than modern scientists do, my dudes.

>>1792562
It's a reminder anon, that God owns your body and you have no control over it.

>>1792564
> Don't know more than modern scientists
So modern scientists know shit. You should kill yourself then.

>>1792574

Why does he send people to hell then if he himself doesn't use it according to his own rules?

>>1792581
>So modern scientists know shit.

Yes! You're getting now theistfag

>>1792581
salty godfag

>>1792564
>I believe in science *tip*
>Oh well, I haven't actually read their arguments.

>>1792603
No one "believes" in science you stupid godfag

The great thing about science is that you don't have to "believe" in it for it to be right.

>>1792574

How is that?
It just fill any rational person with doubt.
All the fools fall for this explanation that God creates injustices and problems on purpose to keep us in our place and make us suffer. But then don't conclude what a jerk that makes him/her.
Why are we capable of a higher sense of morality than the gods?

>>1792584
What an irrational way of thinking. He is not accountable for you in aught, but you are. He created you, you didn't do anything good in your life. That's also the reason God created this life, God already knows who should go to hell, but for people not to complain He created this life. Your dress will talk for you.

>>1792636
>God already knows who should go to hell

Why would God create someone if they're destined to go to hell no matter what they do

God sounds like a douche

>>1792636
Your deeds and not dress

>>1792564
>>1792581
>>1792596
>>1792600
>>1792603
>>1792621
Reads like some r/atheism roleplay, when they get attention-starved long enough.
You have to go back.

>>1792636

So life on Earth is just a Kangaroo Court???
Where does this fit in with any theological teaching?
Or is this your personal philosophy?

>>1792647
He gives us the free will. God knows what will happen, but He doesn't make you do bad deeds, you are the one who makes them. As I said He created life for people not to complain. The Day of Resurrection you'll face your sins and you won't be able to deny it since it'll be the truth.

>>1792636

That makes absolutely no sense, and is also the height of slave morality. Now you know where the name 'Christcuck' comes from, because you people are perpetually getting cucked by your god, and you just come back for more

>>1792636
That's just nonsense pushed by theists to justify their bullshit. Theists don't want smart people thinking for themselves, nor do they want smart people actually contemplating the ideas of "gods" pushed by the church as it erodes their control over the masses.

Theists ALWAYS have some ridiculous counter or clause they invoke to justify absolute nonsense, like the "god works in mysterious ways" argument.

Think for yourself.

>>1792652
Huh, I guess God does exist since it looks like you've turned into a pillar of salt

>>1792671
>>1792670
Argument ? You keep saying "it makes no sense" but can't manage to write why. Why is it totally wrong ? Is it illogical ?

>>1792661
>The Day of Resurrection you'll face your sins and you won't be able to deny it since it'll be the truth.

Nor do I have any impact on the outcome, as you've explained some posts ago.

Honestly, what's even the point of praying to him and praising him then? He's basically going to do whatever the fuck he wants anyway, seems like a pretty pointless waste of time to me

>>1792661

Why bother?

He/she created everything, including your life and your future actions because it is part of your life, soul and destiny. We didn't exist before he/she created us all. If we weren't created there would be no need to have lives lived out to punish or reward actions during life.

>>1792685
> FREE WILL
I wrote that He gives us the free will. You are facing two roads. God knows which road you'll follow, but you're the one who chose the left or the right road. Get it ?
> FREE WILL

>>1792680

My argument is that a God sending people he controls, and then breaks his rules is completely incoherent. If we have no free will whatsoever, and are just robots controlled by God, it makes zero sense for God to get pissed at himself for the things he did himself, to himself, through us.

Honestly, if he controls us, why doesn't he just stop us from sinning? There's zero reason why he wouldn't do this if he was omnibenevolent, unless he was some kind of prop to sell memberships for some inconsistent religious cult that wants to control every aspect of your life and needs some bullshit PR story to do so

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>>1792685

True there is no point in praying.
But we should lead moral lives and not do it for any kind of reward in a possible afterlife.

>>1792708
> FREE WILL
>>1792574
>It's a reminder anon, that God owns your body and you have no control over it.
>and you have no control over it.
> FREE WILL
>no control over it.

Honestly, do you even read your own posts?

>>1792709
See that >>1792708
> FREE WILL
You are the one who controls your fucking life. But God can do what He wants.

>>1791998
Lack of external pressure.

>>1792063
For them we don't know what happened (yet)
It's more logical to admit your unability to answer a question so far than to spout "It's God" at everything you don't understand.

If everyone just went "God!!!" at every unanswered question, things like medical care and astronomy would never have improved

>>1792720

>>1792718

>>1792720
god sounds like a power tripping douche fuck him ill jack off to anime if I want to

>>1792720
>You are the one who controls your fucking life
If god created me, and can control me, if he wishes, where did my free will came from?

>>1792718
Not the same anon , I don't think 99% of people on 4chan are atheists.
You can become sick, and you still have the free will, you are the one choosing to thank God for what he already gave you or be ungrateful.

>>1791998
Peer pressure, mostly.
People are sheep and atheism is "in" right now, just like religion was until sixty years ago.

If god has any sort of power to control someone if he wants to, then by definition free will does not exist

>>1792188
>Everything has a Creator except God since He's the Creator

M00t is the Creator of 4chan and therfore doesnt need a creator (just like God doesnt need one cause he created the universe)

>>1792757
Religion was "in" until we actually started to find out more about the universe and we realized most of the bible is a load of shit

>2016
>believing in God

You guys know who else believes in God? Muslims. Are you guys Muslims?

>>1791998
Because they don't know shit about Christianity.

Same reason why so many people buy into "alternative medicine"/"free energy"/"ancient aliens" because they don't know shit about medicine/science/history.

>>1792786
nice bait

>>1792790
How is it bait?

>>1792790
nice butthurt
Seems like all that dancing naked before the full moon while drinking urine isn't really working out for you lmoa

>>1792764
But M00t is a human being i.e. creature of God.

>>1792803
Christanity, alternative medicine, and ancient aliens are all based on "belief" rather than actual science

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>>1791998
Because Christianity is a cultural import and goes against many core elements of Western culture (like emphasis on individuality, positive views on change and progress, etc.)

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>the current state of christian posters

Must be amerisharts
Theres no other explanation.

>>1792829
Western culture is based on christianity, you baiting faggot.

>>1792820
How would Christianity be based on "actual science"?

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>>1792862
Western culture is based on Roman culture, son.

>>1792880
Yes, that's what he said.

>>1792636
>>1792661
So we only exist for our "perfect" God's entertainment and gratification?

>>1792709
Life is a test.
When God gives you success, wealth you take everything for granted. But when He tests you with disease you become ungrateful. You have the free will, to choose to praise God when you're in good and bad situations. Point.

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>>1792886
>Roman culture is Christian

>>1792901
Why do you think they found Carthage's practice of human sacrifice so abhorrent?

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>>1791998
Mostly Christian territories are based in the west, where people tend to be better educated, thus less people tend to believe in invisible fairies.

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>>1792924
>i called god a funny name
>therefore he isn't real, lol.

>>1792818
And God is a Xjhfsysj474s5 i.e. a creature of ZZvvv55851ds
The fact he created our universe doesnt change that

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>>1792946
>Believing an invisible magic creature is not stupid

>>1792974
>Believing things you aren't proximate to are invisible.

>mfw I'm invisible to you.

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>>1792990
>My invisible god is real but the other 37593 totally aren't

>>1792974
It is, which is why we're not pagan anymore.

>>1792974
>>Believing in invisible magic equations is not stupid

>>1792996
>>My drug is a cure but the other 37593 totally aren't

>>1792914
Funnily enough they sacrificed humans at the time

>>1792998
read
>>1792996

>>1793008
but you can actually prove a drug works and hold it in your hand

>>1793017
but you can actually prove most religions are bogus and Christianity is the one true church.

>read and learn, nigger, before rushing to judgement

>>1793027
>religion
>proving
The point of religion is believing in something that cannot be proven, which is again, why most educated regions aren't religious.

I can perfectly understand believing in a God

what I cannot understand is believing in a religion

So you're claiming that a single entity created all that is and will ever be, and then you're claiming to somehow have understanding said entity? How could you possibly as a human have any knowledge what so ever about something as completely beyond our capacity to understand as a creator deity?

Our current knowledge of physics is so vast no single person can claim working knowledge of more than a few small factions of it and at the same time incredibly limited in what we can actually try to explain.
And somehow you're claiming knowledge of the entity that not only understands all of it but also created it.

>>1793035
>my experiences with American Protestantism reflects all religion

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>>1793027
Which one though? Last time I checked Christianity has 100+ different versions. Not counting the spinoffs like Islam or Christianity "classic" which is Judaism

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>>1793035
>believing in something that cannot be proven

Nothing outside of mathematics can ever be proven.

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>>1793054
Apostolic Christianity, duh.

>>1793053
The world as a whole. There is a reason why Islam tends to be so popular in the most fucked up places.

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>>1793068
No, places are fucked up because of Islam.

>>1793059
>If you cant prove it right now it means the being from this weird book did it

>>1793079
A person living in a fucked up place will steer towards fucked up beliefs, which will cause the person to fuck up their home even more.
It's a big circle that western culture went though in medieval Europe until Christianity started to become less and less relevant.

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>>1793101
Why are you here if you know so little history?

>>1791998
It doens't help when the religious texts of said religion are painfully false.

What do you expect really? That we continue to play pretend for old time's sake?

>>1791998
Cas religion is a joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X6ufMRIe7A

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>>1793080

>I personally don't know any evidence and no one can explain in one line so I'm going to assume there is no evidence.

>>1793059
>t. someone who has never taken any kind of biology course

>>1793429
I mean that image is exactly right, Christianity is a big hoax to make people be good and also follow what religious leaders want

>>1793442
'sup, someone who has never taken any kind of biology course

>>1792029
That's agnosticism. Atheism is belief that God doesn't exist.

>>1793462
you can pretend like you're retarded all you want

>>1792009
Over believing someone magical caused it?

>>1793478
No, that's antitheism

Theism = God exists and here's why
Atheism = I will believe in a god when you can prove its existence
Antitheism = There is no god and here's why
Agnosticism = YU CAN NEVR KNO!!!!1111

The rise of rationalism and empiricism

>>1793442
>>1793486

You don't understand the difference between proving beyond a shadow of a doubt (mathematics, what atheists demand of religion) and proving beyond a reasonable doubt (what actually happens outside of mathematics).

>>1791998
Because of this shit:
>>>/wsg/1324949
>>>/wsg/1325019
>>>/wsg/1325022
>>>/wsg/1325034
>>>/wsg/1325038
>>>/wsg/1325142
>>>/wsg/1325143
>>>/wsg/1325144
>>>/wsg/1325182
>>>/wsg/1325211

>>1793583
Plenty of stuff in biology is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt

>>1793602
It could be all a coincidence, false memories, hysteria, a grand conspiracy, etc....

>>1793607
>It could be all a coincidence, false memories, hysteria, a grand conspiracy, etc....


Literally what are you even going on about

>>1793583
>>1793607
Well, something that has definitely been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt is that you're a fucking retard

>>1793602
Nothing is, actually. It's all wrong, and will be proven wrong by the next generation of biologists, or the next.

It's always been this way.

Remember when they promised that mapping the human genome would cause us to completely and utterly understand our own genetics?

>>1793629
>It's all wrong, and will be proven wrong by the next generation of biologists, or the next.

You really talk like you think you know things but you really dont

So your telling me that Cell theory is gonna be disproven? Evolution? Germ theory of disease? Shit that's actually been observed? Just because the concepts have around a while? God you are the stupidest person I've ever met on this fucking site.

>>1793613
You can always come up with some outlandish alternative explanation that fits the evidence that you can't rule out.

Can you prove ancient aliens didn't assassinate Hitler and made it seem like a suicide?

>>1793652
>Can you prove ancient aliens didn't assassinate Hitler and made it seem like a suicide?

No but what does that have to do with biology

>>1791998
You wouldn't follow a religion that you if you didn't agree with its tenants so Christianity is just confirmation bias, I believe this, and oh hey the almighty super being does too, so i must be like fucking amazing.

That's why there's so many spin-off's of main stream Christianity you just cut out the parts you don't like cause those are like you know REAL Christan values.

>>1793658
Can you prove when you shoot someone, that they died of the bullet and not something else that coincidentally happened at the same time as all of your tests?

>>1793674
Maybe not, but you can predict that in the incredibly vast majority of cases, if someone receives a bullet to the head, they will correspond afterward to what we define as "being dead".

Of course, concepts are always vague, we can't talk of reality as precisely as we'd like too. Doesn't make it impossible to predict things and have some sort of objective definition of reality, though.

>>1792366
>Pope was trying to censor information.

He wasn't trying to censor information. Just saying that speculating on such would be overextending their reach.

>>1792097
Chuckle.

Because Christianity was never about what it claims to be.

>>1793643
Yes.

People 200 years from now are going to look at you and laugh that you thought you knew everything about any of those topics, and that the things you thought were true were so obviously false that they'll wonder if you suffered some sort of head trauma.

Like your belief in spontaneous generation.

>>1793825
It is what it claims to be.

Only Christians know that to be true though.

Modern western atheism is just secular christianity.

>>1792122
>t. someone who has never studied biology
You are disgustingly naïve, go back to high achool anon.

>>1792305
>I have no idea about how scentific fields study the past
Fuck. Seriously you're too dumb to exist, next time you go to a university (read: never) talk to some geologists, archeologists, biologists, and so on, so they can explain exactly every manner in which you are fucking ignorant.

>>1793903
What would 'real' atheism consist of?

>>1793943
Probably Stirnerian or Nietzschean philosophy.

He is absolutely correct in that most secular-humanist systems, the morals are basically just Christian ones with a few names changed to protect the guilty.

>>1793857
>T-time will prove me right even though so far time has only created more evidence for me being wrong
You're special anon, but maybe it'd be best if you stopped talking and just looked pretty.

>>1793956
>and just looked pretty.
>implying that ship hasn't sailed

>>1793968
There is always hope anon, be the prettiest you that you can be. Plastic surgery might help though.

>>1791998
I would think, they originally believed out of fear as opposed to understanding.

>>1793951
>the morals are basically just Christian ones with a few names changed to protect the guilty.
Why is this a bad thing, necessarily? Why not keep good morals and discard unnecessary ones?

Besides, Christians complain all the time that secular people (and the lukewarm) misrepresent Christian morality and teaching. "Nice Jesus" is an invention, right? So if those morals aren't really Christian in the first place, what is the problem with secular systems adopting them?

>>1794024
>discard unnecessary ones

like?

>>1794036
Not him, so I can't say that he's referring to anything specific, but like the new testament overrides some of the old's lesser parts it makes sense to borrow what is good and useful and discard what isn't now.
I really don't know what he means though, so yeah.

it's the next logical step in humanity

just like socialism

>>1794024
>Why is this a bad thing, necessarily?

I don't consider it to be a bad thing, and I'd propose doing exactly what you proposed. Though I prefer personally to evaluate my moral systems from a strictly egoistic standpoint.

>>1794036
Matthew 5:34-37, Jesus orders you to never swear an oath, because you don't know if you can keep it because you aren't God. You may know of Muslims having a similar idea, where they generally add "God-willing" to any statement about theit future intentions. While in a religious context this might make a certain amount of sense, in a secular context it isn't necessary, and making oaths/promises or punishing those who do not make an effort to keep them are actually pretty important.

>>1792401
>to poor arguments which have no real grounding if one understands the religion
No, it's a pretty simple deal. Religion is a matter of faith. Some of those who explored a god, who's demands touch upon every facet of life, found faith alone to be inadequate. Most religious "arguments" are just philosophical, a note of the fact it is basically another form of philosophy. An atheist such as I is not interested in your philosophy anymore.

>>1793939
Geologists, archeologists and biologists hold the truth. Based on what ? How can you be sure they are right ? Instead of insulting, give us good argument.
Anon doesn't believe in God but does believe in "scientists" talking about things which "happened billions of years ago". They've no fucking proof. Except hypothesises and fucking theories based on "observations"

>>1793546
Nope.

Theism: God exists and I love him.
Atheism: I'm too stupid to figure out that God exists, and loves me.
Anti theism: God exists and I hate him.
Agnosticism: Maybe this once riding the fence will pay off.

>>1793558

Yes, the rise of foolishness and idiocy.

>>1794068
>and making oaths/promises or punishing those who do not make an effort to keep them are actually pretty important.
It is called laws anon.

>>1794068
In the original Hebrew, Matthew said that Jesus said never to swear a false oath. That wording is found in the Hebrew copies of Matthew today.

You have found a copyist error.

Congratulations.

>>1794129
> Based on what ?
Empirical observation and evidence.
>Except hypothesises and fucking theories based on "observations"
They work their ass off on what little hard evidence they can accumulate to present the best form of explanation. Meanwhile you christcucks have 3 hours sermons just on how God "came into your life" one day.

>>1794144
If it was exclusively about false oaths and not about oaths in general, the rest of the passage makes no sense. Why would Jesus say that instead of making false oaths specifically, you should just say yes or no? Shouldn't he address the falseness of the oath specifically instead of advising you how to reword it?

>>1792401

You don't have knowledge. What you have, is a routine, a bureaucracy of historical success backing you which gives you an unwarranted smug self-assurance, which is the equal of the smugness of the average atheist. Quite the opposite, to actually understand Christianity is to reject it.

>>1792081
I'm actually a super alpha omega giganigga satanist, Jesus XXIV electric boogaloo has nothing on my lucy, we will win this iteration of the end times, 234 time's the charm.

>>1792188
>Literally too stupid to understand evolution
You made the right choice going for the humanities :^)

>>1794068
>Matthew 5:34-37
>33 “Again you have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘Do not take a false oath, but make good to the Lord all that you vow.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is his footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. 37 Let your ‘Yes’ mean ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No’ mean ‘No.’ Anything more is from the evil one.

>in other words
Don't swear on your momma's grave because that don't mean shit. Let what you say rest on your word. Because a nigger who lies all the damn time ain't going to start telling the truth because he prefaces it with "i be swearing to god yo, ...". If you want people to believe you then be believable with a good track record.

Probably still a Christian here.

I don't know, I get it though, the only times I feel like God is real and I have an actual relationship with them is when I've dug my nose in the bible, or theology books for a long time. Like a runners high kind of. I want to believe in God, but I'm just not sure any more. I'm also afraid of hell.

Thinking of reading some C.S. Lewis, seems like I share a lot of the same ideas as him. Brennan Manning is pretty cool too.

>>1794411
Jesus fairly directly makes a contrast between the old prohibition on false oaths and makes a new one about oaths in general. It's not just about "wanting people to believe you" or not, but that oaths in general beyond simple yes or no are from Satan.

>>1792063
For people who dont believe in a deity, we are still in the process of discovering all these answers to the big questions. Religious people just cant deal with the fact that we as a species havent answered them yet

>>1792106
The universe is the first and the last therefore no one created the universe.

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>>1792063
The god explanation requires a lot more magic than simply being honest and acknowledging a lack of understanding. Sometimes honesty requires you to admit when you don't have the answer. This isn't a test you are trying to bullshit in HS- this is real life.

>>1793478
Atheists don't "believe" that god doesn't exist, it just never occurs to them because there is no proof. If a child grows up in an environment without religion, he will not believe in any gods, and that's how atheists perceive it.

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>>1792136
If there are things you can't explain, then why are you trying to explain them with a god? I mean think of how silly it sounds. How can you believe something to be true if you can't even explain it? Can't you just admit that you don't know?

>>1794136
But do theists truly love God? Or do they pretend to love God because of fear?

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>>1794741
You don't even know that. Cmon man.

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>>1794786
true christians love god and understand god loves everyone

pascal pls go

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>>1794786
Stages of grief. I think people get stuck in the stages of grief when they realize their own mortality, so they jump into denial, and a bunch of them never make it any further to anger bargaining depression and finally acceptance. The death of oneself is probably the only thing more horrifying to some people than the death of a loved one.

>>1794800
The only reason I wouldn't kill myself is because it'll be a betrayal to my family, and I'll be remembered by society as coward. If there was a choice to disappear without a trace, then I don't think anyone would hesitate.

>>1791998
Modern atheism is merely an extension of Protestantism.

>>1792009

>>1794893
How does that even work?

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>>1795006
Protestantism -> born again Protestantism -> new age religion -> new atheism -> atheism+

>>1792009
That's literally Christianity though

>>1792097
I bet you orgasm to the thought of that possibility. Not very christian of you, buddy

>>1792063
Its human nature to believe everything has a beginning.

>>1792063
The thing is noz to ask if a god created the universe but what this god is.
Is this god a person? No.
Is this god a power?
If you call the mechanics which lead the natural phenomenons god then there is a god.
Will god give you an afterlife? If nature does and you call nature god then yes.

>>1794136

you really live in a fantasy that at least 3/4 of people believe in a god or gods

>>1793546
definitions are more on target

>>1794144

it wasn't originally in Hebrew
the language wasn't the language of the Bible new or old testament.

>>1795177
>the language wasn't the language of the Bible new or old testament.
>old testament
what did he mean by this?

>>1795191
LXX

>>1795194
The Septuagint did not come before the hebrew version of the texts.

>>1795177
The common believe of my people stands that the old testament was written in jewbrew while the new testament used the ancient pay debts language.

Can you disprove this claims and teach my people a new horizon?

>>1795202
It came centuries before

>>1795217
Proof?

>>1795217
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketef_Hinnom
this seems to say otherwise.

>>1792767
>t. someone who has never read the bible

>>1793607
>What is Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy?
>How is shifting the burden of proof so you have to disprove a pink unicorn a fallacy?
Weak theist apologetics have revealed your IQ.

>>1794452
Take a break from the Christian fanfiction by fanboys which is theology, read some philosophy, or about other religions, or Dawkins if you have to. Then you'll realize you can't worry only about hell when scientology and everything else have their own things, and it's just easier to dismiss all of the supernatural threats including ones from cultures you just don't know about.

>>1792136
>What is god of the gaps fallacy?
>What is Occam's razor?
Video is for your unnecessary addition of a deity to systems that don't require it. Explain evolution..then explain how tides work 'cas I don't get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HABNe7_D22k
You don't know how to explain how magnets work? Well, it must be god's magic!

>>1795207
The way I was told it, the conversations (if they occurred) were likely in Aramaic, while the Gospels were in Greek with some really bad Hebrew sprinkled about here and there. The sort of thing you'd expect from a Jewish person who only vaguely understood Hebrew and operated mostly in another language.

>>1795283
I really would have liked to see a source.
But it seems I will have to do a recherche myself.

>>1795283
Well it was faster than I expected.

Seems like the old testament was written in hebrew with some aramaic here and there.

>>1792658
This is Calvinist thinking. They reject predestination.

>>1792104
>another kid who hasn't read the bible.

Apostasy wasn't punishable by death.

Islam is still growing up to today.

Got any numbers? I assume you mean Western Christians because that's where the rise of Atheism has been, but even that is now dwindling afaik.

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Because of shit like this.

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>>1792136
either trolling or naive as fuck,really sad tho.

>>1793863
Lolage, Christianity is stoicism + Judaism. It's not what it says it's about.

>>1793079
>Europeans are happy

>>1793643
I won't speak on those but several "solid" models on genetics were later revised until we got where we are. And stuff like Recapitulation theory got dropped altogether.

>>1795753
>Christianity is stoicism
You mean Plationism. At least until the Modern Age.

>>1794162
>They work their ass off on what little hard evidence they can accumulate to present the best form of explanation.
So they're probably bullshitting you.

>>1791998

traditional religion is incompatible with contemporary logic and lifestile

catholic church fails to actualy explain things in a way people today can understand and accept, most catholics today are realy just denominational

protestant churches are either so liberal it makes no difference or simply retarded literalist fundies

orthodox are all about ritual and tradition, most of the population dosent understand a thing about it, and again, most orthodox are just denominational

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>>1792255

more like built in redundancy

>>1792188
really makes you think :^)

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>Time and space are two sides of the same coin
>Without space there can't be time as we know it
>God created space
>Ergo God was responsible for creating time
>Previous to this consequence and causality as we know it didn't exist
>As such, God couldn't have been created because creation pertains to causality and consequence

>>1796487
Meant this as a response to >>1792081

>>1796487

That still doesn't explain where God came from. It's just some nonsensical language game

Also, causality and consequence is something we use to make sense of reality, not some revealed fact that can never be broken. In complex systems, causality makes no sense whatsoever

>>1796520
>That still doesn't explain where God came from

That's the point I'm trying to make. God couldn't have come from something because causality and sequence didn't exist before the creation of space.

Your post's second half kind of refutes my point though.

>>1792136
>It's faith, I don't have to explain shit.jpg

Usually those that gave into atheism were either descendants of christian priestly class or from war turmoiled regions. They usually believe that the story of the new testament is an allusion to how men gave up their faith and became secular by using the Jews as the prototype. These people gave up their tribal way of life, ethnic/pagan gods to believe in one God and his chosen that establish the law of their land. And how the Jews killed the last if their priests in order to accept the roman god: the stone that establishes. By this point the Romans themselves stopped believing in their gods and became secular. And whatever deity they felt inclined to, they saw as a poetic manifestation of human habit.

>>1796601
In order for the Christian world to say it keeps its roots and godliness is by practicing their rites/rituals according to their ethnic region which demonstrate their ethnic logic and ethics.

>>1791998
I'll tell you the reason I'm agnostic: Because every religion I've ever done any real research on has the sticky finger prints of mankind plastered all over it.

So you got god, right? Being that created all things, sees all things, understands all things, and exists everywhere at once. And this thing, this unknowable existence which perceives every infinitesimal interaction in space and determines the paths and destinies of all 1 x 10 to the 80th subatomic particles in the universe, he really hates it when two guys fuck. Or when you eat pork.

Yeah, sorry, that sounds a lot more like some ancient xenophobic clan of goat herders taking shots at other goat herders. Oh you guys eat pork? Oh well, god says pork is dirty so I guess we're just better then you. God also says we should take your land. We're the chosen ones because we cut part of our genitals off.

Call me crazy but that doesn't really seem like the sort of thing an infinitely powerful and knowledgeable creator god would give a shit about.

>>1792009
magic implies a non natural process. simply because we cant fully explain the natural process yet does not mean a super being is the only logical explanation possible.

And even among what is possible, I would put a few other possibles above the Christian God

>>1795858
>>traditional religion is incompatible with contemporary logic

Ether explain what you mean by that or it's just an ad hominem.

>catholic church fails to actually explain things

Have you read any theology?

>fails to explain things in a way people today can understand and accept

Scientists fail at that too. People today are uneducated slobs.

>most catholics today are realy just denominational

The correct term is cafeterial. They don't go off to form a new church.

>>1791998
it's not so much atheism, its that people stopped caring

>>1791998
>>1797988
also the media

>>1795777

Thats not what it says.

>>1797988
This. People got so distracted with other stuff that nobody has the time or patience anymore to learn about religion, history, politics, science, economics, or even literature. They rather F5 facebook, twitter, reddit, etc ...

>>1791998
logic...

>>1798400
*they lack logic....

>>1792122
This human arrogance saying "humans are perfect" it´s total fucking BS, human bodies are not fucking "perfect" that´s BS, i wish i was born with wings like a bird, capable of making webs like a spider, limbs like an octopus, tail like other monkeys, and so on. This idea of something "being perfect" is BS cause things change constantly and perfection it´s a static concept incapable to withstand change. Therefore it´s more accurate to say better or worse.

Religion: Argument from complexity, argument from ignorance

Atheism: Argument from incredulity, argument from ignorance

>>1801516
>Religion
>sound arguments

Pick one

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>>1801629

> he doesn't recognize that those are fallacies

>>1801737
Never implied otherwise.
However, the post is saying religion and atheism are on equal grounds, which is simply false. There are no sound arguments for religion, while there are for atheism.

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>OP has a serious question
>it's about atheism
>thread turns into immediately into shitflinging
Well done, faggots.

As for your question: It's a cultural thing and has largely to do with the moral bankruptcy of western civilization and thus, by association, Christianity after WW2. This trend has been reinforced by the cultural revolutions of 68.

This void of belief has been filled by science. Scientism has become an all-pervading belief system. In the public imagination, science is basically magic and promises anything, from curing all sicknesses to riches to everlasting life. Public intellectuals like Hawking, Dawkins or DeGrasse Tyson unwittingly act as the high priests of this blind ideology.

Only when technology turns against us in the form of war and ecological catastrophes will we as a society move on to another belief system. Which might be equally flawed.

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>>1801792
>scientism

>>1801869
>Scientism is a belief in the universal applicability of the scientific method and approach, and the view that empirical science constitutes the most authoritative worldview or the most valuable part of human learning—to the exclusion of other viewpoints.

>>1801885
Scientism isn't a real social phenomenon.

>>1801766

those are pretty recognizable fallacies

religion and atheism are, by logic, on equal grounds since they both draw conclusions from the unknown. im not saying that one side is justified over the other, nor that agnosticism comes into play, all im saying is that both sides, whether they like it or not, are making assumptions on something that cant be proven or disproven

even if we give religion the benefit of excusing it by saying that "God transcend physical measurement", it still would be up to debate if there is some sort of empirical data for god; as in, what constitutes proof? anecdotal proof isnt accepted by scientists, and its not like you can "synthesize god" in a test tube or simulate god in a computer

tl;dr - religion and atheism end up making certainties over the uncertain

>>1801792

to be fair, those three are very different people

hawkings believes that philosophy is obsolete and subscribes solely to science and draws conclusions from the unknown, which borders on scientism

dawkins is slightly more tame, and in some ways can be ambiguous (he admits he has a nostalgia for religion)

tyson doesnt like being called an atheist, and has been avoiding labels (the closest you can get is agnostic), and is mainly known for criticism of religion and fundies rather than the deeper questions

>>1801792
> In the public imagination, science is basically magic and promises anything, from curing all sicknesses to riches to everlasting life.
You mean religion? Science likes to generate attention over promising developments, but never, not once does it promise anything.

This science being a substitute for religion argument is juvenile, old, and tedious.

>>1801892
It is a bit. Think of technocrats.

>>1801893
>those are pretty recognizable fallacies

Who said they weren't? Reread the post

>something that cant be proven or disproven

Prove this statement.
Define "proof"

>>1801939
I don't see how technocrats are related to scientism

They've been pushed for so long to believe something and when they are finally open minded enough to question the Bible it still feels like a sin. I think they will always believe in a bigger purpose than just life and death, but have been so conditioned to think that there will be consequences to not believing in the named religion and take up another spiritual belief. Thus making it feel like less of a "sin" to believe in nothing at all. You can't help but to feel damned to hell if you were deep into Christianity if you take up another "Gods" name.

>>1801892
I raise you Michio Kaku and the transhumanist crowd.

>>1801893
I was more pointing to their public perception than the actual positions of these men which might be in and of itself justified.

>>1801933
>You mean religion? Science likes to generate attention over promising developments, but never, not once does it promise anything.
It is not science itself which is the problem but the public perception of the mind-construct that is science.

>This science being a substitute for religion argument is juvenile, old, and tedious.
Nice collection of buzzwords you have there.

>>1802007
>but the public perception of the mind-construct that is science
I want examples. People are allowed to have imagination. Atomic cars, colonizing mars in the 80's. Ben Franklin theorized how to bring people back from the dead. The reason for all these wild ideas comes from the fact Science produces things that are often amazing.

>le buzzwords shield
You didn't say I was wrong. It only comes out of the narcissism of religion that they expect people can only adopt models that are similar to theirs.

>>1793429
I know it's hard to imagine, but you can be a good person without being Christian. You don't need the carrot on a stick that is heaven to not do shitty things.

>>1792119
>implying science and God can't coexist

>>1791998
Really listen to super religious people some time. The more fervently a person believes in god, the more fervently they seem to believe god is an asshole. God and the devil have a bet to see who wins the most souls. Babies dying is "gods plan". God hid dinosaur bones to trick people into going to hell. God says we have to kill all the ______ infidels.
According to his own followers, god is an abusive self-absorbed fuckwad. I'd rather he not exist.

>>1801949

> Who said they weren't? Reread the post

my bad then

> Define "proof"

i couldnt, which is why i stated that any empirical proof of god would be up for debate and subjectivity. i imagine god wouldnt be something we could create easily (since it would be the other way around), nor take photos of. im not sure what would constitute as proof, but there would be a debate to whether or not it is valid proof

>>1802007

i see, my bad then. i was following up on what people were saying on scientism

>>1801892

scientism is an actual thing. it mixes popsci-level understanding of things with sudden conclusions. maybe some examples like michio kaku and ray kurzeweil might be overreaching (both seem to be competent in what they talk about), but people that extend from jerry coyne to stephen hawking do show some scientism, as they believe science has replaced religion in answering the "deeper" questions (it hasnt)

there is a big difference between weird shit that is plain incorrect science (ex. deepak chopra) and stuff that uses correct science to suddenly claim that god is not real, theres no afterlife, etc.

scientism is usually reliant on the argument from incredulity. it deosnt mean the science is wrong, but it just means that science is used in the wrong way