Why can't LINUX run games?

>>60453867
People who run loonix don't play games.

simples

>Is there some fundamental difference between LINUX binaries and Windows executable files?
>>>/g/sqt get back in your containment thread.

because its commie free software faggotry(communist mentality stifles art) whose users are of leet hackers that would pirate anyway

>>60453900
>>60453902
neither of your responses were helpful.

>>60453935
Different anon here
Linux users dont play games

But its mostly because your favorite developers of games are baddies and cant get their shitware to run outside of windows, or refuse to develop proper monetization structures/security so they fear it will be shared.

>>60453867
it's got emulators and Dwarf Fortress, That plus consoles is most of the vidia games I would ever play. I still booting to Windows occasionally for some games. The Windows installation is a liability. I'd love to set up a VGA pass-through someday.

Developers just don't see any return in developing for Linux and I hate to admit it but it's behind on graphics drivers. I feel like it's something that's preventing a lot of people from switching to Linux. I know it's the only thing keeping windows in my life. . .

>>60453867
Ensuring linux compatibility is actually shockingly easy but developers don't bother because they have no reason to.

>>60454049
thank you for being polite, but that is still not helpful. I am interested in the software particulars as to why games won't run, and if you can navigate around them.

>>60454190
Do you have any details on what it takes to port a game to LINUX? Does it have to do with microsoft security certificates?

>>60454272
>Do you have any details on what it takes to port a game to LINUX? Does it have to do with microsoft security certificates?
What is DirectX?

The reason Linux can't run games made for Windows is because when people make programs (a game is too, a program), they use little thingies provided by operating system (Windows is an operating system, Linux is too, an operating system). Now, Windows thingies are different from Linux thingies. So games made for Windows try to use Windows thingies, and Linux doesn't have them. Now, you can try to implement and mimic all the thingies that Windows has and provide the program will all the Windows thingies there are, but the problem are there are very many Windows thingies and it's very hard to copy them just exactly right.

> Is there some fundamental difference between LINUX binaries and Windows executable files?
No, difference between PE and ELF is negligible compared to the thingies.

> Is it the filetree structure? Does running FAT32 preclude you from using programs made with NTFS?
No, you can use NTFS on Linux too.

It's more than just the filesystem - it's also everything else, like windows (as in the game windows) etc. Yes, you can navigate around that, and it's called using WINE - it's not an emulator or anything, literally all it does is provide Windows APIs.
Also this >>60454190 because it's literally just a compatibility layer. Graphics and sounds and stuff are generally portable, especially if the games use OpenGL and similar, non-DirectX stuff.

>number five is alive

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Well, I found this

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017850/

>>60453867
http://store.steampowered.com/linux

But that doesn't mean you can code your game against a shitload of Windows only API and then it'll still easy to port it to Linux, Android, OSX and so on.

You need to code that game against cross-platform libraries, rather than specifically for Windows.

>>60453902
Them hackers made many fortune 500 companies develop and use Linux primarily.

Communism everywhere & art is over and finished. It's like Bill said.

so can LINUX emulate DirectX?

>>60454253
There is no actual technological reason why Linux doesn't run as many games as Windows. It really is up to the game devs to just do proper Linux ports.

>>60454570
Nah, but WINE partly does.

But note that DirectX is simply not the way to do multiplatform titles.

OpenGL or Vulkan are - or frameworks and engines using them.

>>60454654
Yeah, but I mean, if you can, then why not do it? I mean i know its probably slightly illegal, but its not as if you are criminally liable or anything.

>>60453867
windows and linux have different system calls, and different userspaces. how you go about e.g. drawing a window is different

compatability is easy if you plan for it in advance and use portable libraries, but is a huge amount of work if you depend a lot on the windows infrastructure

>>60453867
>I know LINUX supports most hardware drivers windows does.
That's pretty cool, if you know about something like that, you should let people know. You could make a ton of money teaching people how to install windows drivers on Linux.

>>60454654
I mean, whats the point of using OpenGL if you can emulate DirectX? It seems like all you are really doing is sticking your finger in porters pie.

>>60454739
Stop baiting

>>60454739
>>60454703
> Yeah, but I mean, if you can, then why not do it?
You can't really. For technology reasons, not because it's a crime.

DirectX isn't a nicely supported thing on anything other than Windows and I think Xbox - the MS toys.

> I mean, whats the point of using OpenGL if you can emulate DirectX?
Linux, OSX, BSD have WINE, but it's imperfect.

The question isn't that. It's only why aren't you using OpenGL or maybe Vulkan - they are what works on almost everything (including most consoles and smartphones).

>>60454739
DirectX is Windows only, they don't show you the code. It's not more simple to keep guessing numbers for a library card until one of them works, it's more simple to have your own card which is even legal to use then.

>>60453867
So i get that certain windows library dependancies can sometimes make function calls to the native Windows graphics api. Does Direct X contain libraries that call on the Windows graphics api?

I'm just curious as to how developers work on windows applications while using LINUX machines. There must be some framework for compatability.

Developer's don't see money in doing so, as l*nux isn't the major desktop OS.
If Micro$oft keeps fucking with game platforms, the devs will move over.

>>60453867
DirectX is propriatary and Micro$haft chilling

So couldn't you run windows on a virtual machine inside LINUX?

>>60454862
>Does Direct X contain libraries that call on the Windows graphics api?
I guess I answered my own question, didn't I.

>>60455201
how much performance loss would you suffer by doing that?

>>60453867
Linux doesn't always use libraries Windows uses, and any code which utilizes any piece of the Windows API will be a broken symbol in Linux, and likely vice versa (though most games are developed independent from the OS API these days). The big reason is that there's a gap between the ABI for Windows and Linux (not to mention different reserved memory regions and entry points forfeited to the OS). There are other nuances dealing with linking and what not (ELF on Linux vs PE). Data is independent of filesystem (filesystem simply is a set of features concerning the storage and reading of said data). Wine provides an userspace abstraction layer to allow for the Windows ABI to run in addition to neat tricks like backwards compatibility that wouldn't even work on Windows itself.

To answer the second part, graphics drivers and openGL implementations are the main bottleneck in Linux. DX9 and some DX10/11 codepaths are available in the WINE layer but most of it involves translation to OpenGL for maximum performance so the performance hit is here and there. The biggest nuance in game programming are the small optimizations you make here and there and it's not always possible to translate them over from Windows to Linux, so it is almost imperative, due to architectural differences. Because it's always been a pain to work with OpenGL (despite having comparable performance), developers have shunned from OpenGL codepaths. In order for gaming to be prevalent under Linux, it is imperative to specifically target Linux during the development process.

>>60453867
Youtube is full of videos showing Linux and Windows gaming side by side. There's some suprising results, honestly.

>>60455282
you sound smart.

what about this question
>>60455201
>>60455243

>>60455298
Not him but using GPU passthrough the performance loss would be minimal; a reduction of frames in the single digits. However, you need two video cards to make that work.

>Is it something that is hardcoded?
No.

>I know LINUX can run WINE, which gives it access to the .net framework.
Technically, everything .NET run in Wine is run using Mono. .NET itself is not a part of Wine.

>I know you can download Direct X drivers.
Wine cannot run Windows drivers. It simulates the Windows user space, not the kernel space.

>I know LINUX supports most hardware drivers windows does.
It's not a hardware issue. It's entirely a software issue. Namely, Wine needs working libraries to translate DirectX to OpenGL. They're a few versions behind, and everything's buggy as hell.

>Is there some fundamental difference between LINUX binaries and Windows executable files?
There are several fundamental differences between Linux and Windows applications, namely:

1. Linux applications use ELF (executable and linkable format), Windows uses PE (portable executable).
2. Linux applications can interface with the kernel by system call. Windows does everything through system libraries (incidentally, this makes it a lot easier to run Windows applications on Linux than the other way around)
3. File organization of everything is different.
4. System libraries do everything differently.

Wine is a complicated piece of software that is actually able to address all of these problems. But they're basically playing catch-up with Windows, and they don't have the resources that Microsoft has. Keep in mind that this is a third party project, and NOT a part of Linux itself. So it's not going to be getting lots of cash from every large corporation that relies on Linux.

>Does running FAT32 preclude you from using programs made with NTFS?
User applications don't tend to care what kind of filesystem they are on. That's the kernel's problem. Also, Linux interacts with NTFS just fine on its own. It can't boot from it, but it can read/write to NTFS formatted flash drives without even needing Wine.

>>60455587
Would you need to partition your hard drive?

>>60455612
I don't know the whole process, I haven't done it myself yet. You can find lots of guides out there though.

>>60455298
It depends. There can be a small to moderate overhead for running the virtual machine to expose the hardware (emulating different hardware devices like graphics and network card). That's why passthrough is recommendable, as it by itself eliminates the need to run things things underneath it like SPICE/QXL. Passthrough is available in modern Linux kernel versions to give DMA to the guest for certain pieces of hardware and effectively have no overhead except for what the guest delegates for using its driver. Some other things you can do is pin cores to avoid load balancing to interrupt the guest (this is known as CPU affinity), dedicate more RAM, etc. You'll need beefier hardware to run a CPU guest because it occupies resources all on its own.

If there aren't significant bottlenecks (enough drive space, RAM, CPU cores dedicated) it should run within 5% of the OS on host operating system, especially with virtualization extensions.

>>60455708
say i didn't care about any of that shit and just wanted an out of the box solution. Can I still get 30-60 fps on my 2 to 4 year old games? I know thats a lot of fuzzy logic, but..

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I have been gaming on Linux for 10 years. I have gotten to the point where all the games I want to play run better in wine than windows 10. Most games are from 1998-2004 so this isn't much of an achievment. I have to say I am impressed my t420 with a i5 igpu can run garry's mod very well.

/comfy/

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>>60455756
>out of the box solution

KEK, install Source Mage.

>>60455612
You can just create a disk image (similar to an iso, raw, or compressed types like qcow2) as a file and use it as the drive. VGA passthrough requires 2 graphics devices though, keep that in mind. You don't need two monitors either, you can just run the other one headless if you really wanted, but you can also just plug both into your monitor (provided they have the corresponding outputs). You probably will want a framebuffer console rotation so that you can start the console on the correct GPU if you have particular setups.

By out of the box I mean hardware emulation.

>>60455780
Do I need paththrough or can I just use hardware emulation?

I've got a mini-server platform.

>>60455761
hello oldfag

I too play Half Life 2 and the two SWKOTOR games to this day. What do you play

>>60453867
Well historically directx has been more capable and efficient than OpenGL so developers often gravitate to the windows API for that reason. This is changing with vulkan so the next decade could be telling.

I build tools out of other tools.
If a gun doesn't have any bullets, I can still use it as a hatchet.

>>60455926
I don't know that that is true.

>>60455972
>>60455926
>Well historically directx has been more capable and efficient than OpenGL
that part, i mean. The thing with vulcan could be true.

>>60453867
EXCUSE ME IT'S GNU/LINUX

>>60456117
I GNU you'd say that!

>>60453867

> why doesn't LINUX run games well?
Linux doesn't run games well because it has shitty GPU support.
Linux has shitty GPU support because driver manufacturers don't bother making drivers for Linux
Driver manufacturers don't bother because Linux has a low user base.
Linux has a low user base because Linux doesn't run games well.

Apply this to video games, video game platforms etc.

> I know LINUX can run WINE...
WINE doesn't work well with 3D games because since Windows is closed-source, it's a trial-and-error process to make things work.

> Is there some fundamental differences between LINUX, Windows binaries?
So long as the developers are using a _programming language_, this shouldn't be a problem.

However, libraries are a different story.

Windows uses the .NET framework and DirectX, and _only_ .NET and DirectX. Because Windows is controlled by a single corporation, they can keep it like this.

However, because Linux is free to modify, groups made different frameworks, and the options get frightened at whether to choose GTK, Qt, SDL, OpenGL etc. Read "The Paradox of Choice".

If you use a mutli-platform game engine like LÖVE, however, this should be a non-problem besides some minor differences when shipping it to the public.

> Is it the filetree structure?
It's not filetree structure. Most programs should be filesystem-ambiguous. Yes, there's some differences between ext* and NTFS which might create problems, but a proper installation would fix this.

>>60456210

>Windows uses the .NET framework and DirectX, and _only_ .NET and DirectX. Because Windows is controlled by a single corporation, they can keep it like this.
>However, because Linux is free to modify, groups made different frameworks, and the options get frightened at whether to choose GTK, Qt, SDL, OpenGL etc. Read "The Paradox of Choice".
GTK, Qt, SDL, and OpenGL are all cross-platform. Windows applications are not limited to just .NET and DirectX.

>If you use a mutli-platform game engine like LÖVE, however, this should be a non-problem besides some minor differences when shipping it to the public.
Quite. And all of the libraries you mentioned for Linux run basically the same between Linux and Windows. One source code base + cross platform library = applications for multiple platforms.

>It's not filetree structure. Most programs should be filesystem-ambiguous. Yes, there's some differences between ext* and NTFS which might create problems, but a proper installation would fix this.
No userland program should give 1 fuck about whether it is running on EXT4 or NTFS. It might, however, have a problem knowing if it should be pulling some data out of /usr/share/whatever or C:/Program Files/Whatever, although this is mostly an issue for install scripts.

>>60453900
>>60453902
>>60454272
>>60454739
>>60454983
-A lot of Triple A games are on Linux(ported)
-OpenGL/Vulkan is used by MacOS 10.x(and iOS),AndroidOS,PS4(which use a modified FreeBSD) and both Nintendo devices(3DS and Switch).
- A lot of developers are indeed lazy and got stuck with M$.

>>60455871
You won't get the same performance, at least until virt-gpu is completed (not quite sure on the details). Passthrough allows direct access of the guest to the hardware without the virtualization layer - hence the GPU is "passed through".

>>60456608
Passthrough sounds like a cool technology.

It sounds like if you put that in a box and sold it you could make some operating capital, even earn some credit with the community.

But I'm not a dev, I'm a power user, so I don't think I want to hassle with trying to get it to work. Setup time, learning the system, figuring out how to operate it, what kind of time investment am I looking at to be able to do it myself?

>>60456775
I also have to do frequent re-installs from scratch due to a hazardous programming environment. Some things I can upload to cloud storage, but other setting need to be set manually. I'm working on batch file to do all the things i need to do, but depending on how long it takes to setup, it may not be worth the effort if I can't get my system back up and running in 2 or 3 days.

>>60456829
but running windows on a virtual machine would actually be very good for me, because if the VM crashes I can get it back up and running without having to resort to hardware operations.

LINUX has good ISO support, right? Their firmware is pretty solid, if a bit threadbare..

DirectX11 is quite literally the single reason I use windows.

>>60454190
>Ensuring linux compatibility is actually shockingly easy
Directx is way more efficient than OpenGL

>>60453867
>he fell for the Linux meme

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>>60453902
>(communist mentality stifles art)

>>60453867
good luck making a single binary to run flawlessly on Ubuntu, Debian, OpenSUSE, Fedora, Arch, Gentoo, Slackware, etc.

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>>60458642
not to mention supporting that shit when it breaks.

>>60453867
you can play dota2

>>60453867
>Or rather, why doesn't LINUX run games well?
if there was better support it would run games way better and controlled

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>>60453867

Weee oooo Weee ooo retard alert!

WINE translates Win32/64 and kernel system calls to the POSIX system calls appropriately.

Inefficiencies can arise in translation, if it is fully compatible at all, that lead to significant performance problems. Not to mention, driver support can be shit on Loonix sometimes.

But look up, young PC nerd. For the day of Loonix revolution will surely soon be upon us. For the native binaries will flow as free as the data on your RAM's memory bus interface!

>>60455972
>>60456012
Well it has been the reputation. I've always preferred openGL because of the cross platform etc etc but most people I know went work mostly with directx because they perceive it as more efficient and flexible.

I mean lets get real for a moment. You install windows 10 in about 45 minutes and for most linuxes its about the same but remember. Biggest base linuxes are about 1 gigabytes or 2 while windows 10 can be more than 5 gigabytes of data. And what happens when you open them. On linux there are about 2 functional buttons, 3 are nonfunctional and in those two buttons there are some pictures to play with. Maybe slide down or up. On windows though, you feel like a god. Its professional its fast, its all functional. You have a godlike user interface. The thing that linux does not have. You have those two buttons in linux, but you still search google for codes to write in terminal. Linux is free because its not worth a penny. Nobody would sell a paper without taking the money. Just not sure why people still buy android while windows phone does 10 times more. Trust me. When you work with windows you know some genius ground breaker dedicated himself to give you an operational os

directXXX, lack of market share and lazy community
reactOS can run steam games pretty good though

>>60454739
The modern OSS video stack, called Gallium3D does Direct3D, along with OpenGL and everything else. You write a frontend and it checks if the video hardware can deal with it.

The problem is that nVidia and Intel refuse to use it, and the WINE guys assume everything is nVidia.

>>60453867
DirectX doesn't play nice.

>>60453902
>System that promotes individuality and doing it yourself for yourself is communist

>>60453867
>Is it something that is hardcoded?
linux makes no particular effort not to support games
>I know LINUX can run WINE, which gives it access to the .net framework.
there's also mono
>I know you can download Direct X drivers.
>I know LINUX supports most hardware drivers windows does.
no, there's no way to run windows drivers on linux
>Is there some fundamental difference between LINUX binaries and Windows executable files?
they use different executable formats (windows uses PE, linux uses ELF)
>Is it the filetree structure? Does running FAT32 preclude you from using programs made with NTFS?
what

>>60453867
The same reason your watch or your phone can't play games, because the developer didn't make it for it. Simple as that.

It uses OpenGL which is utter shit.

>>60462179
Linux does not "use OpenGL".

>>60462200
I was pretty sure games under Linux used it. Isn't it the only alternative to DirectX they can use?

>microshit windaids is for fags
>vidya is for fags

You do the math.

>>60462244
Games running on Linux might use OpenGL but Linux does not use OpenGL

>>60462244
he means opengl isn't implemented in the kernel itself, the main implementation of opengl under linux is mesa, which is a separate project

This thread is full of idiots posting the same thing every time.

>>60462179
your average /v/ poster ladies and gents

>>60455587
>However, you need two video cards to make that work.
AFAIK there are success stories for single video card too. Even harder than the regular GPU passthrough.

>>60462682
where?

>>60462253
>Games running on Linux might use OpenGL but Linux does not use OpenGL

What he means is that you are, in fact, using OpenGL/GNU/Linux.

>>60462706
https://forums.lime-technology.com/topic/41951-gpu-passthrough-with-only-one-card/

No personal experience though. Seems like it requires some vbios fiddling.

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>>60460518
Nice Bait

>>60454590
Well, vendor support is important too. But your core point is correct: nobody develops games for Linux because nobody cares to. Nobody cares to because there's no money in it, because there are few consumers running Linux.

Really, like many things, this is Microsoft's fault.

>>60453867
shit drivers

>>60453867
Because Windows games are not browser games like Kancolle.

>>60463673
Call it Microsoft's fault all you want but this just nets them more money so why should they care?

>>60456501
Saying ps4 OS is at all related to freebsd is like saying a Toyota camry is related to a lexus lfa.

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>>60465478
They shouldn't, and I wasn't implying otherwise.

>>60465548
Pretty sure it was based on NetBSD so she's wrong on all fronts.