Moralfags BTFO

>>60248692
piracy is like cheating on a exam or copying your classmates homework except it costs billions in lost sales

>>60248692
never seen this thread before

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>>60248692
Moralfag here.
It is actually immoral to pay for things.

>>60248721
Fine by me, like I give a fuck about lining some rich asshole's pockets

Since piracy is just theft at sea, piracy isn't technically piracy either.
>https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy

>wew I spent countless hours into making this let me just let anybody copy it without any compensation whatsoever
>I live by eating air after all

>>60248759
>sea is metaphor internet
There you go!

>>60248762
>implying the artists and the ones getting fucked over the hardest by mega corporations right now
>implying they see any of this `compensation'

>>60248753
Fuck you being rich is moral stealing money isn't.

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>>60248721
>lost sales

>>60248795
Profit is theft.
Sharing is caring.

>>60248721
Good thing I only pirate to hurt the Jew.

>>60248692
I think it depends. If you pirate an OS like windows to play games, post on 4chan or use facebook microsoft couldnt give a shit. Now if an entire company has a pirate version of windows in their offices then its a problem, since they are making a profit. The same could be said for any liscensed software, like downloading autocad to fuck around and practice vs making a mayor proyect with it.

If someone intended to be paid by you for something they produced originally then it is immoral for you to use it without paying. If you do not agree with the person, you should not use something they produced. Its very simple.

>>60248721
lost sale is a shit meme proposed by corporation lawyer

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>>60248721
>lost sales
Still waiting for something to actually back this up

>>60248793
The original idea was that the artists should gain an income over several years for their work or with that extended protection (70 years after death) have a leverage to sell to distributors/publishers for a better price.

Trouble is that artists are not good at business or negotiations. Publishers, however, are.

>>60248898
it's not a meme it's real, just very difficult to estimate

>>60248721
>lost sales

It only costs billions in Jewish butthurt as it makes them realize that the cattle aren't all braindead like they were taught.

>>60248779
>attacking a ship and kidnapping the crew merely makes a copy of the ship and crew while leaving the originals untouched

>>60248721
>costs billions in lost sales
At least they can ignore the support of my copy. They usually ignore for the legal one too though.

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>>60248721
>lost sales

>>60248779
Theft deprives the owner of the right to use a good. Digital piracy does not.

>>60248904
You can tell someone is retarded or a total corporate shit if they even mention "lost sales".

Sales can't be "lost", sales are sales, if someone steals something from a store that isn't a "lost sale". If someone decides not to buy your software because there is a cheap alternative that isn't a "lost sale". If you get undercut that isn't a "lost sale", these things are all simple non-sales and are an inevitable part of doing business in real life. Not everyone wants what you're selling, calling disinterest "lost sales" or "lost revenue" or any other such shit is just a disingenuous attempt to appear to be some sort of victim of something.

How can you say lost sales aren't real? It costs money to create a product, let's say a game. If no one buys the game, instead they pirate it, the company that made the game will get fucked over it, since they are unable to cover production costs and make a profit. Hence, the company will fail, causing no more future support for the product and even possible new products that the company could have made.

In short, yes, lost sales are real and they do damage sellers. In some cases piracy can be ignored, since revenues from legit purchases are enough. But in other cases, especially with indie stuff, piracy can really be devastating. So, if you like something and can buy it, do it. Otherwise go fuck yourself and use another product.

>>60248826
?

>>60248762
Artist here.
Would rather share my beloved creations freely (both libre and gratis) than extort my fans, friends, and fellow humans, or worse, have some corporate third party fuck me over doing that in my name.

>>60249073
If everyone pirated it, it's because no one thought it was worth supporting and it deserves to die.

>>60248692
Image someone pays you to program something for him, and then when you're finished he just copies everything and says "WTF, why would I pay you for the original when this copy is absolutely identical and it didn't create any addition work for you when I created it, so you're not entitled to being paid for it!"?

Would that be okay for you?

>>60249073
I don't buy it if it costs money

>>60249103
This is my point. But if everyone pirated it, and liked it, then no support will ever come. You do not use something IRL without paying. With piracy you can.

>>60249103
That assumes people even think that far. A big assumption. Concepts like "Tragedy of the Commons" suggests it is the norm to expect others to put in an effort.

>>60249073
The world doesn't owe you shit, faggot.

>>60248873
I was once at a hotel where all the computers literally said, "This copy of Windows is not genuine." No one gave a shit.

>>60249130
>Making false analogies to defend rich people he doesnt know
Sure smells like shill around here.

>>60249103
>it's because no one thought it was worth supporting and it deserves to die.
Wow if that were the case then nobody would fucking pirate it.
You don't want to have a bag of shit so why would you pirate a bag of shit?

>>60249164
Nice reasoning here. You made something that costed time and resources, put it up for sale, people like it and use it, but no one buys it since they don't "owe you shit". You die of starvation and depression.

>>60249134
>You do not use something IRL without paying.
>what is borrowing

>>60249191
I don't give a shit if you pirate movies made in (((hollywood))).

But I've never seen pirates make a difference between jewish media and indie stuff. They just always pirate and they don't care whom they hurt.

>>60249196
What if it's like a mystery bag, where I can see before I buy something if it's good or not? It's better than having lost my money to a shit product.

>>60249134
>>60249157
If the fanbase is so shit that none of them want to support the product they like, then it deserves to die anyway. Seriously, your fanbase has to consist entirely of Russians or South Americans if all of them pirate it.

The lost sales maym is not only retarded, what happens is the opposite of what they claim.
>friends share copies of x
>more people encounter x
>interest in x goes up
>the number of people who might actually pay for x goes up
>many of these people would have never even heard of or cared about x had it not been shared with them in the first place
Piracy actually increases sales.

>>60249219
Selling things is inherently immoral anyway

>>60249212
Yes, but (free) borrowing is not a business model. Banks do not just lend you houses until you die. IRL you pay even to borrow shit, because revenue is needed in return.

>>60249257
The Jews know this but it hurts their pride when goyim find ways around handing over shekels.

>>60249263
Yeah, you should rather starve to death. Everyone should. That's moral AF senpai. And let your kids starve to death as well.

>>60249277
>you either have to perpetuate consume whore slavery or we all die

>>60249277
>What is agriculture
You'd think people would know that fruit begets fruit in the 21st century.

It's immortal to pirate

>>60249248
But does that make piracy justifiable? Think about it. It's kinda like saying: if I throw this empty cola can on the street, who the fuck cares? I'm just a single individual, this little action doesn't imply anything. But if everyone went like this, all streets would be a huge shitload of empty cola cans. Same thing with: "If I pirate this, what does it change?"

>>60248926
Yeah maybe a couple thousand bucks lost

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>>60248721
>lost sales
>the people who pirated your shit were gonna pay for it if piracy didn't exist

>>60249257
True to a certain extent. Piracy may have some positive effects, but in the end, it does more harm than good.

>>60248721
>lost sales
the ones who pirate things weren't going to pay money even if pirating wasn't an option anyway

>>60249299
>>60249304
Yeah, my current life where I work for 8 hours 5 out of 7 days so I can purchase all the different kinds of food, entertainment etc. sucks.
I'd so much rather have a life where I work for 18 hours a day, even on weekends just so I can have the same milk, eggs and (at summer) even crops, which rot away before winter because there are neither fridges nor electricity to power them.

Just go to North Korea or whatever communist "paradise" or become an Amish. And stop using electricity and computers, because you won't find those on the field.

Just pirated Gentoo, what are you going to do about it?

>>60249130
Being contracted to create a potentially one off product is completely different to making a product and putting it on the market. If you're contracted, the person who hired you is obliged to pay for the produced. If you're just putting something on the market, nobody owes you shit.

Is all the time someone is not buying movies a crime?
I mean, it is loosing them money, so why isn't it illegal to not buy movies?

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I can't even imagine living life viewing sharing as morally reprehensible and corporations as anything but the lowest evil.
How on earth did you people stray so far from your basic humanity?

>>60249329
Problem with selling software isn't piracy. It's a bad business model. The ability to copy is fundamental to a computers design and you are trying to make a piece of software that cannot do whatever the computer itself is dependent on doing. Many businesses have figured this out and have shifted their business model in response.

>>60249394
If this thread is any indication, we'll get there soon enough.

>>60249375
Broken reasoning. If piracy wasn't a thing, people would not pay indeed. But they wouldn't be able to use the product. With piracy you use something that costed money to be made without giving nothing back.

>>60249248
>If the fanbase is so shit that none of them want to support the product they like, then it deserves to die anyway.
Determining the quality of a product by its "fanbase" seems to be a bit desperate, anon. News: it is possible to use a product without having to be a fan.


>Seriously, your fanbase has to consist entirely of Russians or South Americans if all of them pirate it.
You really think the non-payers are limited to those two regions??

>>60249376
Just build your own faggot, Fuck I hate nu-/g/ so much.

If piracy doesn't hurt then why is Windows better than Linux? Window is paid software and it's not in a beta release candidate like Linux is. Linux keeps experimenting with new things that always breaks or you revert to old versions until x version is fixed. That's because Linux is free and no one pays for the Linux kernel to be more mature. The developers don't have that motivation of "if I do better for this project I can make a better living. I better sure try harder" with Linux it's like "I'll make this because it's needed but since no one is paying me I will take my time and finish it when I feel like it, I don't own the community shit". Can you see who would be more motivated? The one that gets paid.

>>60249376
Just lol, unless you're producing tonnes of produce you're not gonna be working anywhere near those kind of hours. Other than slaves, people today work more hours then any other period of time.

>>60249417
True. I agree DRMs are stupid and useless, this is a moral problem. Applying other business models can help for sure.

>>60249425
But the cost of reproduction is near zero. Imagine you had a food copier machine that could be purchased for 100 bucks and sold food. You could argue that your pizza cost money to develop the recipe from pro chefs but after the recipe is made the cost of producing that pizza is nearly zero after purchasing the copier.
It makes zero sense to try to complain that people are pirating the copyrighted recipe. It's a bad business model.

The car analogy makes no sense, it depicts the problem from the user viewpoint (driver, car owner) and not the content producer (car manifacturer).

If you pirate the game I developed you not only remove all value from what I did, you also provide potential customers with what they want without me getting anything out of it.

Even worse if you upload it to some shitty sharing website where a third party makes money out of my stolen softwer with their cangerous ads.

Fuck you for trying add some sort of ethics to this nonsense.

>>60249465
People do pay for Linux. There are many full time paid developers from ibm, Google, even Microsoft

>>60249425
>With piracy you use something that costed money to be made without giving nothing back.
So?
It's an intangible product, someone 'using' it has no effect on anyone. In fact it as the exact same effect as not using it at all, the product owner certainly can't tell the difference between someone pirating his product or someone not using it at all.

>>60249457

>Just build your own faggot

What do I need? Sugar, spice and everything nice?

>>60249474
And here you are, posting on your computer that you (or maybe mommy) bought for you, probably haven't even worked hard for a day in your life and you're fat and waxing your carrot to japanese drawings of little girls.

Why aren't you living that dream-life? Go ahead. acquire land and work your ass off. I'll be waiting when you come crawling back and beg for entitlements, a 9-5 job, a computer, power, internet access and proper food.

>>60248721
>lost sales
No one has been able to prove any lost sales from piracy. You know this of course.

>Confusing plutocracy for "capitalism"
The early 80's was the last sign of capitalism.

>>60249522
The fact that the product is intangible doesn't change much. Just because a game you pirate is just bytes, it doesn't mean someone didn't spend time/money/resources to put together those bytes. If you use their product actively and don't support, you are benefiting of their time/money/resources for free. If everyone did this, the seller would be affected heavily.

>>60249516
They don't pay for Linux. They donate. There is a difference.

>>60249548
>acquire land
No problem. I'll just work for 20 years of my life to pay off the property. Also nice projection there, son.

>>60249670
I hate HEAVEN so much!

>>60248692
I feel no sympathy towards people who show me ads for a cinema movie
>I FUCKING PAID FOR.
There is no limit, even adopting paywalls across the entire web won't stop ads. That is why I am seeding 24/7 and never pay for any service.

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>>60248738
Communists
>>>/out/

>>60249591
>The fact that the product is intangible doesn't change much.
It changes everything, and even the law disagrees with you - 'copyright infringement' and 'theft' are two different crimes.
> If you use their product actively and don't support, you are benefiting of their time/money/resources for free.
I see absolutely no ethical or moral problem with this if such a 'use' cannot be distinguished (i.e some kind of measurable loss, be it wear&tear, loss of goods, property, etc) from a 'non-use'.
>If everyone did this, the seller would be affected heavily.
And then he may or may not stop making it.
And I'm perfectly ok with that too.

>>60249524
If you are into THAT, maybe.

>>60249360
>source needed

Friendly reminder that iTunes and Spotify would have never existed without piracy

>>60248721
I'm selling my poop for $100. If nobody buys it, did I lose $100 in sales?

>>60248904
The official term that should be used is Lost Potential. But they don't use that term because that equates a pirate'd copy to literally any other reason for a failed product. like not being the better option, or being an expensive good over an expensive or even cheap necessity.

Lost sales is just a meme so that they make people feel bad for the creators, but the problem is lost potential is better because it's not a joke - it's less sensationalized

>>60249425
What is the difference?

Take a movie for example.
It sells 1million tickets or whatever.
But 10million has seen it for free.

Another movie sells 1million tickets.
But nobody bothered to look at it online.

The first movie have "lost" more money than the other.
In the real world, sales doesn't go down on heavily pirated movies.
People make more money on movies now than they did back when copies were done manually.

As I see it, piracy is the free market responding to a demand.
In this hypothetical scenario, 10 million people found that the best way to get the movie was to download it.

If there was an easy, cheap way to get the movie digitally, people would choose that over piracy, even if there was a price.
A good proof of that is streaming sites like netflix.
The quality is poor, the content is decided by someone else and it is worse than pirating in every movies was 10 years ago.
But it is easy, so everyone has a netflix account now.

But netflix doesn't cover everything, so either you have to sign up for multiple accounts or just take the easy road and pirate it because you can't get the product anywhere else.

But right now, we have a limitless copyright and people who are not willing to sell their product, so a lot of people just go the easy route to get it.

>>60249329
It's weird, i stopped pirating things years ago and .....

>>60249729
I am not implying that piracy is the only cause behind a product failing, but it can be. If you keep using a pirated product, and many people do so, you are harming the seller and the few people that paid for the product (seller failure == no further product support, updates, etc.). So, in short: you like a product, you use it frequently and you tested it fully after pirating it? You should buy it. If the market decides that the product is shit then it should die, but not because of piracy, because no one is effectively buying AND using it.

I didn't think people were seriously defending piracy on a moral level. It's not strictly stealing but if you had intent to buy but ended up getting a free copy illegally you're obviously hurting the profits of a project you enjoy.

OH LOOK THIS THREAD AGAIN.
People dont understand that the product on the shelf (the DVD/CD/DLC) isn't the thing they're stealing. Someone, usually a shitload of people, put shitload of time making a game or amovie, they got paid, and someone got investors or loans to pay for their work. And these investors or banks expect a return with profit. So if you're pirating a game, not buying it, its not literally a thievery, as original copy is preserved - its not paying for someones job. Which is, in legal words, steal/fraud. Its the same as riding a bus without ticket - its not that you stole something, but the service is provided without paying for it, and this can and will (on greater scale) cause problems, even lead to shutting down a certain studio. OR, IF YOU NOTICE YOU FUCKING FAGS, A LOT OF STUDIOS ARE BEING BOUGHT BY EA/BETHESDA(Zenimax), which is major cause of shitty gameslike mass effect 4, dishonored 2 etc. Because they're lead by financial divisions, not game devleopers - ergo, the cheapest they can do something, th ebetter it is. Only real harm is to users and people who work on these titles, big fishes from companies are still getting paid. And thats why i dont bitch when i need to pay 20 - 40 bucks for a dvd.

>>60249883
You're only hurting their profits if you copy their work and sell it for your own benefit. That can actually count as lost sales since the people who bought from you would probably has bought it from the company that made it. It's not a lost sale if you pirate it and play it, there was never a possible sale in the first place.

>>60249830
No, because nobody was interested in said product.
If you pirate something you clearly show interest in said product.

>>60249977
I conditioned it around the fact that you would have bought it. Sure. If you pirate stuff you'd never touch otherwise that's not a lost sale. But if you change where you're sourcing the product you've certainly made someone lose a sale.

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>>60249935
Wrong.

>>60249935
Then make it harder to pirate your products.

>>60249867
This desu

>>60249867
>The quality is poor

Dunno about that, the 4k content looks pretty decent. Maybe it was shitty years ago but these days it's not bad.

>>60249867
I myself am a libertarian so I can see your reasoning with the free market. Thing is, the free market is ruled by a supply and a demand, which are tied to one another in a logical sense. Example, take the war on drugs. When weed was made illegal in the US, the price skyrocketed. This was because weed is a very bulky substance, quite difficult to hide and smuggle.
Since there was still much demand, but less supply, prices rose to balance the whole thing. The market always balances itself.

With piracy, you are going out of the rules of the market, since by actually skipping to pay what the market decided, you are not trading. This still has an effect on the market. If prices decreases, quantity decreases. If for everyone price was zero, quantity would also be zero.

>>60248692
The only people who support piracy are NEETs. NEETs have no morals.

>>60250150
They have no money either so throwing the "lost sale" drivel at them is an effort in futility.

>>60248721
>lost sales

Would've just gone somewhere else to get free entertainment. If people don't want to spend money, they won't, period.

>>60249935
>R, IF YOU NOTICE YOU FUCKING FAGS, A LOT OF STUDIOS ARE BEING BOUGHT BY EA/BETHESDA(Zenimax)
Nothing to do with piracy obviously since it has no effect on it - if anything, people are probably more willing to buy from smaller studios precisely because they aren't big conglomerates where all the money goes to the (((shareholders))).
And the reason smaller studios agree to be bought up by bigger ones in the first place has again nothing to do with piracy, it's all about either making quick big cash, or not wanting to deal with big business stuff, but just code and make art.

>>60250081
No point in doing it, as it'll be pirated anyway, and it'll only annoy people who legally bought it. The problem is with users, not the protection model. Other thing is, Things could be cheaper so mor epeople could buy it, as now huge amount of money goes to the directors/investors, while devs are on rather normal paychecks.

>>60248721
no, it costs nothing in lost sales. zero.

Back in the day I was a student and I had a computer with a cd-rom and speakers connected to it and that was my stereo.

I bought a CD and popped it in and the cd-player went brr brr and the computer froze. The cd-rom wound't open at all so I had to unscrew it and force it open and then I noticed that the disc said something like "Copy Protected Disc, not CD" in very small letters.

I never bought a CD after that, I never bought a DVD and I never bought a BlueRay disc. And I don't feel bad, not even a little.

The amount of lost sales due to me just downloading whatever I want is zero.

As for software, I've used GNU/Linux since Windows 98 was popular so that's never been an issue.

>>60248882
And what if the person who produced it originally is dead? If Copyright lasted 10 years or perhaps 20 at most then I'd care. But as it stands I have zero respect for Copyright. 70+ years of monopoly and corporation actively lobbying to extend that? It's your duty as a citizen to ignore copyright laws until or unless they become morally acceptable.

>>60249875
Where and how would you draw the line where 'use without buying' is bad/immoral/whatever?
If my neighbor plays loud music and I happen to hear it (and like it) I'm 'using' the music without paying for it.
Is it after a certain amount of times?
Does it have to be a certain fidelity/quality?
Or maybe it's the neighbor who's the bad guy here - he is illegally streaming music.
but that raises even more questions, should you not be allowed to play loud music where others can hear?

It's too easy to reductio ad absurdum any such basis for a line.
I can see the point you're making of practical concerns for various industries, but I'm trying to get at the fundamental ethical or moral implication of allowing or disallowing sharing copyrighted works.

>>60249186
Im the IT guy at a public prosecutors office and every single one of our 4000 computers have a pirated windows 7 installed.

>>60250130
But everyone who is against piracy views it like there is product X that costs x, and then piracy comes with the identical product and gives it away for free.
This is just not the case.

There was a demand for a product (in this case, digital movies)
And no way to get it.
(other than traveling to a country where they sell it and then put it on a computer).

It was not like there was a store where you could buy movies digitally with no device or region restriction.
If the industry just have sold this 15-20 years ago, the need for piracy wouldn't have been so huge.
But when they tried to do something that was close to that, you got worse quality than fucking yify.

So the market responded.
They removed the menus. They removed the 15 minutes of "watch this other movie, and remember to not share this with your friends" bullshit that came with physical movies.
They made their own subtitles to eliminate the delay between region releases.
They made the product they wanted.

But the movie companies were more focused on adding stuff they wanted, even though the customers didn't want it.
They didn't give an easy way to buy their product. They didn't give the product people wanted.

As I see it, the free market responded.
You have a product that can be replicated infinitely with zero cost to reproduce.
And when the original product is designed to piss you off, you will get competition.

>>60248692
Piracy is kinda like producing a costly car and then this god alien reptilian from out of space shows up and creates exact free cars for people willing to have it all around the world without making any profit or investing real money.
I can see why people investing money into something are butt hurt about some additional profits being lost but usually profits exceed production costs many times, and they probably are cutting costs wherever they can anyway so the "real" developers wont lose anything from piracy.

>>60250589
This can make sense. People will go towards what they want, especially if it is convenient for them. But, while the free market and common principles of economics are applicable anyway, the digital world is still different.
When laws of economics were written/designed, no one took into consideration that someone could use product X without paying the amount the market set.

So in this sense, piracy falls out of standard economics. It's like a backdoor in the market. Even if companies did their best to suit customers, piracy would have still happened IMHO. Piracy has always been intrinsic to computers, and it's basically only a moral matter. If we want to talk economics, we have to obey the market laws, and don't consider piracy.

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>>60248721
>lost sales
The people pirating it weren't going to buy it anyways.

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>>60248721

>>60248721
WTf, so if I'm buying product A instead of B.
Then whoever made product B just had a lost sale and it is bad. And thus the gov should force me to buy B too if I buy A or even if I don't want any?

IP lawyers belong in a death camp.

>>60252587
this

>>60252587
This

Finally someone said it

>>60249329
Heres an idea, make a fucking shift from the industry standard that every single fucking game NEEDS to be 60 fucking dollars.

Even fucking Nintendo has taken to it with their 3DS titles.

Fucking MOBILE GAMING DOES NOT PROVIDE A VALID ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO CHARGE FOR A AAA+ EXPERIENCE.

After I found out just how bad it was, I simply just bought a flash card.

How is pirating any different than fucking gamestop or gaming generations selling fucking used games?

How is it any different than Ebay?

How is it any different than renting the games?

Even in Music, I can give my CDs away, whats the difference?

The scale of distribution?

Tough titty, provide a decent enough experience to incentivise full price, or lower the price of the game.

Funny enough, when Activision attempted to do this with CoD, by separating the multiplayer from the campaign and selling it at a lower price point, they got into so much shit they had to put a lid on it.

The gaming industry is a joke, its loaded with fat fucks with no care for their customer. I'll do as I please if things are as such.

>>60249209
Shut up dude, if you could buy something for less money or even free and it's about the same product, we all know what's gonna happen.
So yeah, shills like you it's why we can't have good things. Just like the other guy said, sales are sales and these things happening its just disinterest. If you fail to sell something because someone or something is offering the same thing for a better price, it's you who have to change not them.

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>>60249716

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>>60249716
>>60253009
P H Y S I C A L R E M O V A L

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>>60248721
Fortunately in my case they're not losing sales because if I couldn't pirate something I wouldn't buy it anyway. That makes my pirating of content entirely legal.

>>60248692
Proprietary software deserves to be pirated

>>60249990
Just because you take free shit to fertilise your garden doesn't mean you'd pay $100 for that shit.

>>60248692
>imagine cars that you were creating for no cost and selling were being created by someone else

>>60248793
t. Cognitive Dissonance

>>60248692
> implying antipiracy rethoric has anything to do with moral
> implying it's not blind reproduction of corporate buzzwords

>owning information
nigga keep it a secret if you don't want others to have it

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>>60248721
>except it costs billions in lost sales
But Hollywood literally makes loses with every fucking release.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

>>60254350
So it's my fault that the jews jew incorrectly????

how the fuck does that happen tho...
This is why i will forever love Paranormal Activity.

>Budget: a couple grand, a computer, some sony handycams (not even movie tier ones), couple gallons of pop and pizza, paying my friends to act so cheap af
>Income: millions of dollars
>tfw he cleared that shit because no hollywood jewery
>i'm sure he lost some to distribution, but not as bad...

Really the whole movie industry needs like a cleanse and i'm sure many film people would agree...

>>60248721
You're costing me $10 billion in lost sales by not funding me $10 million in venture capital.

>>60248917
No, the original was for 20 years after death. Then Walt Disney died and mickey mouse was about to be free game so they extended it to 30, then 40, etc. So every time mickey is up for grabs you'll get a full congressional panic to lengthen to postmortem royalty limitations die to the ridiculous amount of money that removing licensing restrictions on disney would cause.

>>60254350
>>Hollywood literally makes loses with every fucking release
>throw 900k at someone just to stop them from looking at where the money went
>losing money

>>60248692
piracy is trespassing on intellectual property
I don't think it's immoral under the current copyright regime, where the usage rights a consumer purchases evaporate as soon as they get your money. If I buy a CD and it breaks, I can't get a new one and pay only the replacement's marginal production cost. I have to pay for the usage rights I theoretically already have all over again.

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>>60254947
They already made somewhere between dozen of millions to billions with the movie on theatres. Why should I pay them extra to have some sort of media that will eventually become outdated

>>60249867
>If there was an easy, cheap way to get the movie digitally, people would choose that over piracy, even if there was a price
That's Gaben's motto for vidya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLC_zZ5fqFk

>>60249716
Lost

>>60249353
we are not all underage faggots here

>>60253168
This, Im not poor and I'd like to buy physical media, but they aren't available near by. So piracy is my only reasonable option currently.

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It doesn't matter either way. If there's anything I've learned from the Snowden leaks, it's that piracy is pretty much dead.

>>60255437
except its not dead at all

you are all gay

>>60255437
>>60255445
maybe he meant privacy

<<60255437
>clevergirl.jpg

So you're saying... that the software I develop and distribute on contract to the government for the purpose of blowing up Arabs is moral... but the video games I make in my free time and sell for a few bucks a copy are immoral?

>>60248738
what, do you want a helicopter ride?

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>>60248721
You should never count something as sold until the money has left their hand, entered your pocket, and they have walked out the door. Lost sales are bullshit, they were never a sale to begin with, they only become one when they complete the sales process.

>>60248721
>the market owes me money because I spent time making something
vs.
>I spent time making something, let's see if the market is receptive enough to give me money for it

You therefore can't lose money you never earned by the logic of your own merit

>>60248721

Cheating on homework/tests is primarily bad because it cheats yourself out of an education. The purpose of these is to show you what you know, and what you need to review. It's not really comparable to piracy, which does nothing bad for the pirate.

I just pirate old games that can't be bought or games by companies that do stupid shit.
Yooka Laylee for example is a game I'd pirate.

>>60249073
they dont make sale from the game but they do from the IP and the merchs

company need to look into new ways of marketing and making money. there are too many games where it really sucks and the only good thing about it is the marketing hype that they made before releasing the game

no one wants to pay for a game that is shitty and call it a lost, thats why people pirate it to see if they like it before they buy it.

the trial version of the game are often time a joke because they either target a specific scene that would arguebly be the only good scene in the game or it's going to be the introduction of the controls where they will put more effort in making it look good to attract players

if they are able to get and retain players to their game, they would made a fortune with merchs and possible some DLC and so on.

most people don't want to pay for something they don't like especially when it comes to the west with the return policy that you guys have. that is literally the dumbest shit I have ever seen coming from the east.

hurr durr, I'll buy something way overprice and use it for few hours and return it the next 7 day if I don't like it. what the fuck man, you need to have some liability and live with your decisions if you're gonna spend shit like that.

it is no extending to video games now and people are wanting a refund after playing few hours of it and notice that they don't like it.

also, the modern games now it's all about story telling. literally all games in the west now is all repetitive actions and just a big book of story telling. i.e. hunt 50 wild boar and get this quest which will make you go half way across the world to hunt for 50 wild gold boar then comes all the way back here to collect the price which will be part no.32 of a super mega duper weapon that has 500 parts to build it

get real america

>>60253240
Of course you'd pay for it if it was A) the only thing you could use for that purpose and B) you'd want it.

>Saturation of supply with countless copies has no effect on demand and therefore price, affecting sales
pirate but throw a few bucks if the devs are based

>>60248795
It's not stealing if they didn't have the money in the first place. Are you going to tell me not going to a restaurant because you're not hungry is stealing the restaurant's money as well?

It's very simple but you fucking idiots still jump through hoops trying to justify your bullshit. If you get something without paying for it, you're stealing. Plain and simple.
I pirate shit all the time but I don't try to pretend it's not wrong.

Don't reply to this post or I'll fucking kill you.

>>60248721
There's piracy that can be justified, and piracy that can't.
Say someone lives in a third world country, they cannot pay for the product because of the costs of living and utility, they'll pirate.
This also brings a positive notion - the person can still be part of a game's fanbase and thus bring in more sales, through online forums or simply talking about the game to friends..

The second kind of piracy is just one where you have money to spend on the product, yet you decide not to, because of your massive inflated ego and the feeling that corporations need to somehow repay you, bordering on the delusions that you believe they are not created by people but some benign entity that only means harm to you.

Out of the two, the first one is more common, this is because the second group has enough money to actually pay for the product, so they aren't dependant on piracy.

itt. shitposting

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>>60249082
it's piracy
i think you mean lost sails

>>60249465
I pirated windows.
>your argument is invalid

>>60248721
>lost sales
Can't lose your sales if you don't sell anything

>>60248692
Piracy was a bit more understandable before cheap streaming services existed. You had to buy an album to listen to music legally or buy an individual copy of a show or movie (with all the editoriall bullshit) to watch it legally. Record labels and movie studios were basically trying to litigate the consumer into an obsolete business model rather than change themselves.

Now that services exist where you have loads of media available to consume as much as you want for a low fee, they have changed themselves (and are continuing to change). It's a pretty dick move to pirate most stuff these days.

>>60248692
Not giving money for products you like is like loving milk & having a cow which you expect to receive milk from everyday without feeding it. Illogical.

>>60250206
>If people don't want to spend money, they won't, period.

The NEET creed

>>60248692
holy shit i'd be pissed as fuck. I spent 40 years of my life creating my car so I could drive something no-else has and some mother fucker just comes and copies all my hard work? ALU ABKHAR!!!

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>>60249716
>not being a communist

>>60256870
Streaming services are not replacements for physical copies. Not everyone has fast enough internet to stream and data caps put another limit on it. Secondly the streaming services may remove songs, movies, etc. overtime. You may pay to stream one thing but then a year later be unable to stream it again. Streaming services also frequently have geo restrictions so if you aren't in America you can't access most of the content. With a physical product or pirated copy you won't have these problems.

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>>60248738
this

>>60248692
The power of information technology does not fit the "buy a copy" idiom. Those who try to enforce it are creating useless institutions to protect it. Some people managed to understand it and fit in it, some did not.

>>60248692
Piracy is Jesus magic therefore moral.

>>60256601
>Say someone lives in a third world country, they cannot pay for the product because of the costs of living and utility, they'll pirate.
I was this but after I got decent work I can afford steam and streaming services even occasional CD imports

>>60248721
>lost sales
>being this retarded

>>60248721
OY VEY ITS ANNUDAH SHOAH

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>>60249465
-Free software is for the benefit of those who invent it.
"If I don't like that a certain tool doesn't have a GUI frontend, then I can make one for my own satisfaction and benefit."
-Free software is for the benefit of those who program it.
"The inventor can also release it into the public (GPL) where other people who wanted the GUI can benefit from it, and further their benefit by helping to program it, and to make it better."
-Free software is for the benefit of consumers.
"Someone without technical prowess can also benefit from the invention and further development of these programs, but does not invalidate the motivations that the creators have. There are things that consumers are bad at, and that creators are good at, so without consumers, the usability of a program by those without technical knowledge will be lower than when there are not consumers. The benefit to the creators for providing this usability to the consumer comes in the form of satisfaction, donations, respect, renown, job offers, etc."

For commercial software, the motivations of the creators is not the benefit of themselves and consumers, but rather the pursuit of wealth. The only thing that matters is that consumers buy the software. In this respect, the quality of the software is inconsequential to the creators. A similar situation to this is the presidential election. A candidate running for president is not motivated to do the most good for himself and others. They are instead motivated to obtain their votes by any means neccessary.

>>60248721
It's not a lost sale if the person isn't willing to pay. Maybe 1/3 of people would buy instead of pirating if they had no choice, others will still choose a free option. So, Photoshop wouldn't be as popular as it is without pirates, and Linux would have a 10-15% market share on desktops. I don't know a single person which actually ever paid for windows, Photoshop, movies or music.

>>60249257
This.

>>60249360
No it doesn't. People resorting to piracy wouldn't buy the product in the first place. Them getting it for free is identical to a company giving them a trial version. The product now "owns" the pirate and makes them more reliant to the product, especially poorfags and kids which grow up wanting nothing but the products they pirate. Hence the popularity of windows and adobe. If anything piracy helps bigger companies. You should always try stuff before buying.

>>60249394
It's "illegal" to watch movies without paying. If you're streaming or watching it on a TV, the program you're watching it on already paid for you and gets it's money back via ad revenue or paid subscription.

>>60249465
>windows is better than Linux
Except it's not. Fucking android linux beat windows in mobile market, that just proves how windows wouldn't have made it on desktops if they didn't buy their way into people's homes.
>no one pays for Linux
Yes, people do. Enterprise versions are paid for (RedHat, SUSE), ZorinOS Ultimate is another non-free version.
>windows is paid
It's obviously not when half the userbase pirates it.
>Linux developers aren't motivated
The ones whose job is to develop are just as motivated as windows devs. The ones who do it as a hobby are usually more motivated than programmers who get paid (see foobar/Clementine vs paid alternatives). Did you ever have a job? Nobody does anything they don't need to and money isn't a good motivation to "do your best", whatever that means. People usually put minimal effort to do shit if they can get away with it.

>>60248692
Wrong
>>60249935
we understand that the big corpo/studio is evil due to the fact that
>actual content creators don't get much cut/share and providers aren't honest like that incident where itunes/store did not pay royalties to artists with big hits (e.g) youtube can lie about your views and pocket all the ad revenue
>content providers are 'protecting' the rights through non-free DRM devices and code that is now on all major browsers and every phone (amazon and apple is much more DRM enforced)
>DRM is non-free and a scenario where your purchased content could all be deleted because (e.g) dolby revoked some audio codec or is asking for more cut/share (not from the content creator but from the content provider)
>ads are everywhere now because the content providers are more aggressive and enforces you to go premium
>subscription model

Studios/content providers only bring exposure and availability and people pirate on these people (but the truth is the creative artists are being abused/overused like the anime scene in japan).

Some creative artists at patreon/etsy are reeling in USD10k-50k monthly and that's just making 2 contents a month.

subscription/membership business model is the most feasible
>as seen on patreon or etsy
>as seen on linux

>>60249267
Go to a library. Preferably read a book while at it.

>>60248692
If you use pirated software for profit, besides Windows, you're kind of an asshole
Pirating media for entertainment is one thing, but if you've ever made more from using pirated software than the program costs you owe it to the devs to just buy a license

>>60257993
>besides windows
Making exceptions for your argument devalues the argument. I seriously hope Microsoft bans illegal copies of windows.

>>60258062
>devalues
completely, an argument with exceptions is just
>not an argument

>>60258466
Exactly. An OS is obviously more important so pirating it is less acceptable than pirating other software.

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>>60249376
anarchist kiddies BTFO

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>>60258062
>"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

I don't think Microsoft will ever really ban pirated copies of Windows as it would undercut their install base and make competitors more attractive.

>>60248834
This

>>60248721
Except I probably still wouldn't buy the product if there wasn't a 'free' option.

If I like something that I've pirated enough, I'll go and buy it. Sounds far fetched, but thats how I do.

>>60258617
>And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade
Always one step ahead of the mac and lunix fags.

I'm not going to pay for content or view advertisements if possible. Most of the time I'm not going to pay or view advertisements even if it's the only way to get the content as there is rarely content that's worth it. If I can't get it for free I'm just going to walk away. No lost sales here.

I have no need for software piracy as I just run whatever is available as free software or for free of charge.

Especially music has no monetary value these days as production costs are at all time low and number of artists is at all time high. Most of the time I can satisfy my needs for free from YouTube and SoundCloud and when I can't there's usually a way to get my hands on what I want for free.

I do understand that this kind of attitude limits how much content will be made but so far the production rate is far higher than what little I have time to consume.

>>60258617
Why was Gates such a fucking genius?

>>60258989
This

Also advertisements in stuff you pay for is disgusting and happens way too often

>>60248692
filesharing is not piracy

>>60248738
I don't agree.

Everything should be free (as in freedom) and at least open-source but creators deserve their pay - and you should donate them in any possible way.

What you all need to realize though is that the little guys out there do need your help.

If you steal from Walmart or Hollywood, OH WOE IS THEM! The billionaire jew doesn't have an extra $20 bill to use as toilet paper.

But like, if there's an independent musician or programmer, or small "ma and pa" store in your area that you choose to neglect or steal them, they very well WILL go away if you don't pay for their stuff. Yeah, "good riddance" if you don't like them, but if you do and they disappear. Shame on you.

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I've been pirating shit since 1997. But it wasn't until 2004 that I realized that PC game devs need to smarten the fuck up.

>LET'S TIGHTEN UP THOSE GRAPHICS! TIME FOR M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-MEGA SALES!
No, you fucking retarded faggots. Look at the top selling PC games. Crysis will NEVER, EVER, EVER be there, at least in part because you need a fucking computer with a built-in flux capacitor running at 1.21 Jiggahertz in order to run it well. You'd actually make MORE money by making games more accessible to people with budget PCs. But you're too retarded to see that. Does that mean you have to make ugly blocky pixel games? NO. You can still make beautiful games. Just go fuck yourselves, please.

>HEY PIRATES ARE BAD LET'S LOCK THESE GAMES UP TIGHT WITH COPYRIGHT SOFTWARE (malware) AND CD PROTECTION
Good job hurting legitimate customers with malware. Also, needing a CD to play your overhyped piece of shit should've been phased out years ago. I hope you go bankrupt.

(cont'd)

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>>60260084
As a result of the PC games industry being nearly completely retarded, in 2004 I decided to punish them. I've led the fleet of online pirates from my parents' basement in Östersund, making many PC devs to close up shop. There are legions of like-minded individuals cracking and beating your shitty copyright malware. You are only pissing off legitimate customers with your bullshit.

Titan Quest was a shitty game. If you faggots at THQ are reading this, JBlackbeord87xcOol and his team made sure your game was on every torrent site. I actually downloaded it myself, but then stopped playing after an hour. I actually regret burning that game on a DVD and I hope as you're cleaning out the offices at Iron Lore you can send me a replacement blank DVD to recover my costs.

At the same time, I was personally responsible for making sure the torrent releases of Galactic Civilizations 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire were DELAYED on all the major torrent sites. Of course, one man cannot stop the flood of pirates, but if you had trouble downloading Sins when it was first released, you can thank me for that. These devs know what the fuck PC gamers want, and both titles did very well for NICHE games with NO copyright protection.

Protip: PC gaming isn't dead. We're just not buying your shitty games. Eat my fuck, jerkoffs. I hope you go bankrupt.

Signed,
"Blackbeard" Harald

For North Koreans piracy is the only option
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOzY3U9xIoM

>>60248898
this, you could argue that every time you download the same thing the company that made it will lose the price each time, just more money grabbing: if you don't "get" money you "lose" money,

>>60260095
>>60260084
comedy gold

>>60248692
People who pirate my car don't deserve to have it, they didn't work, didn't pay taxes. Same goes for software.

I've pirated (torrent) stuff from time to time. I'm not ashamed of it. Mostly old tv shows that ain't shown on cable anymore (so no DVR'ing it) or due to lack of the whole series being put out on DVD/bluray. The few box sets I've gotten via torrent was due to the fact it'd cost me a fuck ton of money to buy the dvds, take a lot of time to rip/encode plus the torrent was in good quality. Most stuff I get now is porn though plus the occasional e-book. The biggest box set that I've personally ripped/encoded was the 20 season Law & Order. All torrents of it sucked in some way. Plus I'm a fan of the show. But aside from that, yeah a lot of games suck now for one reason or other. Either the story or plot is weak or there is none at all or the devs went all out for eye candy and forgot about everything else. or the controls are fucked up. Look at some of the classics, RE 1/RE2/Unreal Tournament. Those games are still popular and they don't have nearly the eye candy as games today. (I just hope capcom don't fuck up the planned RE2 remake, but they prob will, screw up the controls or change the game levels or something)

>>60248721
>losing something you don't have
kek

>>60256016
No, it's bad because it cheats other people out of the worth of their degrees, because you cheapen the worth of that degree if people can observe an idiot like you has it.

"Cheating yourself out of an education" is neither moral nor immoral. People cheat themselves out of education all the time by doing things with their time other than learning or being productive.

People shud do everything for free. Money does nothing but create greed and corruption

>>60260698
>no fun allowed

>>60260698
That'd be right, if all races except white and asian stopped existing.

Home cooking is costing restaurants a lot of money.

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>>60248692

>>60261589
Every meal at home is a lost sale!

>>60249716
Did you just assume my political leanings, shitlord?

>>60262184
I miss OC like this. What the fuck happened?

>>60262379
/v/ is kill

>>60248721
Most of the pirates are not potential customers, they wouldn't buy it either way, you cannot measure lost sales due to that

>>60248795
>being rich is moral
False.

>>60248830
Most underrated post of all time

>>60263853
Nobody cares about your H index on 4chan.
There is no rating sytem.

>>60248692
Imagine your money gets stolen, but the other morning it's still there but has less value.

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>>60260095
>I was personally responsible for making sure the torrent releases of Galactic Civilizations 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire were DELAYED
Based

>>60256504
>If you get something without paying for it, you're stealing.
Do you use Google services, for example?

I can see how plagiarism may be immoral,but there is absolutely nothing wrong with copying information.

>>60248721
The fact that this got so many replies shows how true it is. Good job mate.

>>60260095
Titan Quest was actually really good though?

>>60262184
Literally what is wrong in that situation?

A "sale" is an exchange. I give you $79, you give me that bike. You still have the bike, I still have $79. If I look up the bike model and buy it from some indian dude for fifty cents, you haven't lost anything, particularly if I just wouldn't have bought the bike anyway or would've bought a similar but cheaper bike from one of your competitors.

Those other options are just as much of a """lost sale""" as the first one, but only one is immoral because muh stealing.

>>60248721
> lost sales

so it's okay as long as i wasn't going to buy it anyway right?

>>60265484
>Imagine your money gets stolen, but the other morning it's still there but has less value.

Stop using money based out of thin air.

>>60248692
>OP seriously thinks that a image could contradict centuries of law tought.
This is /g/: Home of fedora STEMlords.

>>60248721
It's not lost sales if I copy something I would never have bought in the first place.

I've copied Ecad databases worth thousands of dollars. But they are databases I would not have bought even if they were a tenth the price.
The company lost nothing.

>>60267837
literally
everyone is going full on asberger because they know they are in the wrong here

>>60249219
Pirates are not hurting anyone, stop using false analogies.

>>60248904
>I pirate a game. No money goes to the creators. A lost sale
>I buy a game. It's a sale.

I don't care what you do though. I've pirated and stolen my fair share... especially from companies that do things that piss me off.

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If no more music, movies or video games were ever created from this point forward, I would be perfectly happy. I'd never be able to enjoy all that media and neither would future generations because they'd have to start with the classics just like us. So I'm going to pirate the shit out of everything I can and want. If some film industry fatcats loose some money or an indie game company gets shut down I don't care one bit.

>>60248738
this. when you buy a product you pay taxes, and that tax money is used to kill innocent people all over the world. The moral thing to do is make as few purchases as possible

>>60248692
The whole thing is actually the other way around.
Companies that "own" the content are actually taking money from people for information they did not create.They might've created the original information,but they did not create each individual copy of said information.
The companies are the ones stealing.

>>60248692
It doesn't matter if you don't pay you won't get quality shit most of the time.

Do you know something that is EXACTLY like piracy?
Santa Claus

Santa Claus clone toys from companies and give to childrens.

>"but santa claus is not real"
A children think its real.

IF YOU ARE OK WITH CHILDRENS (THAT BELIEVE SANTA CLAUS EXIST) BEING OK WITH RECEIVING SANTA CLAUS TOYS (MADE BY REAL LIFE COMPANIES), YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT PEOPLE THAT LIKE TO PIRATE

>>60249394
>Is all the time someone is not buying movies a crime?

They say that its still bad if someone, that would never buy the game, pirate it.

By that logic, if you like the game and you dont buy it you are doing something wrong