/dpt/ - Daglig programmeringstråd

>>60182035
I'm gay, rec me a programming language

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>>60182064
node.js

>>60182064
Lisp
Anything with a bottom type

>>60182078
lmao what the fuck

What is man supposed to use when here's just no good statically typed and compiled language.
>sml
no good implementaion
>ocaml
sml with shitty syntax, also does not support native threads
>lisp
too verbose, also static typing not standardized
>c
decent but manual memory management is annoying in prototyping phase
>sepples
cluster fuck that no sane person would touch
>d
can't decide if it wants to have gc or no
>rust
better stay away from it because it attract lot of crazy hipsters, also uglier than sepples
> any jvm/clr lang
requires huge vm
>go
Rob Pike is faggot, also no macros
>haskell
generates garbage 1GB/s

>>60182128
Idris

>>60182128
J A V A

>>60182128
Just quit programming hobby programmers should kill themselves.

>>60182140
>requires huge vm
>>60182138
>meme
>>60182151
>>>/wdg/

>>60182166
>meme
Explain.

>>60182151
What? You're afraid of competition in your job? That some newbe will replace your ass some day? Your fear fuels my desire to write even better programs, thank you.

>>60182128
>cluster fuck that no sane person would touch
Retard

>better stay away from it because it attract lot of crazy hipsters
Retard

>Rob Pike is faggot, also no macros
Retard

>>60182173
>competition
>from some webshit probably writing node or python
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>60182177
retard

>>60182128
>no macros
Forget macros, it not having generics is even more damning.

This whole thread is retarded. i blame Norwegians.

Same question from the old thread; should I learn Crystal or Rust?

>>60182173
>"""""""self-taught"""""""""
>competition

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

>>60182189
Now you're desperately trying to read my power level by implying I do bad hobby programming.
Next you'll ask me what do I do for hobby programming and whatever I'll write you'll say it's shit, but deep inside you'll be afraid that I'll take your job one day. That your basic clickityclack programming is not enough and you'll be easily replaced. I suggest you start working on your skills right now.

>>60182228
i blame you

>>60182035
frysk > norsk

>>60182166
>""""""meme""""""
>>>/r/abbit
>>>/v/

On Wednesdays we Kode!

>>60182064
Become a Cfag like me

>>60182229
Do you absolutely have to learn a shitlang?

How do I become a code artisan?

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nth for C!

curl -L git.io/v94ea

>>60182354
The fuck is that?

>>60182166
when I see anon's complaining about how "huge" and "slow" the JVM is, I know that they really have no idea what they're talking about and are just parroting

>>60182332
kode with karlie

>>60182408
Unironically this

>>60182258
I'll save you some time. Unless you're using a language with dependent types, I'm not at all worried about you ever supplanting me.

>>60182390
The only thing slow about it these days is its startup time. Once it's running, it's pretty impressive performance-wise. Unfortunately for computationally-intensive code you pretty much have to use arrays of primitives in order to get performance.

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>>60182078
jesus tittyfucking christ

>>60182110
>>60182448
It's fake.

>>60182442
>arrays of primitives
That is, as opposed to any other collection or arrays of objects.

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>yfw hobby programmers never get past HR

>>60182455
I was just looking for an excuse to post 1.15MB of bubble-wrapped pug.

>>60182469
What if I'm both a hobby programmer and a professional programmer?

>>60182425
If knowledge of a specific programming language is your only strength as a programmer than basically you're shit.

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>>60182425
Unless you're using both SPARC assembly and the calculus of (co)inductive constructions, I'm not at all worried about you ever supplanting me.

>>60182469
hobby programmers are really good at writing neat little 1-3 file console programs in various meme languages, but would self-destruct if given actual real world code (10k LOC +) to work with

>>60182505
Did you fail grade school?

>>60182472
You never need an excuse to post that! ;-)

>>60182505
>If knowledge of a specific programming language is your only strength as a programmer than basically you're shit.
It isn't, and I'm also not concerned about you taking my job from me because you evidently have poor reading comprehension. Is literacy a hobby activity for you too?

>>60182524
If your codebase is only 10K SLOC, you're clearly not writing in Java!

>>60182524
>meme
>>>/v/

>>60182537
Jesus fuck you better get a skin graft for a burn that bad.

>>60182524
It's funny how upset some of them get when you ask them to write code in Java during an interview.

>w-why can't I use python???

Thoughts on TypeScript? Gonna bite the bullet soon so any advice is welcome

>>60182524
>actual real world code
How do you determine if a world is real? Am I in a real world right now?

>>60182479

> What is your biggest flaw?
> What types of things will you say to be inclusive?
> Are you hiding anything?

>>60182573
learn purescript instead

>>60182537
Why are you so mad? Because I know something more than a programming language? Where do you work?

>>60182570
Both of them are languages designed exclusively for use by subhumans.

>>60182581
>How do you determine if the world is real? Am I in a real world right now?
Check to see if the mirrors are real.

>>60182624
I, too, prefer Idris, and Clojure, le true gentleman programmers languages

>>60182587
>purescript
need to check how to consume .ts file from purescript as this is the reason to learn TS at all. Still better than learning pure JS

>>60182664
>le
>>>/r/abbit

>>60182592
>Where do you work?
Do you want to know so you can my employer and demand that they fire me because I was mean to you online? That's the only way you can ever hope to take my job from me.

>>60182664
>Idris
Unsound garbage.
>Clojure
Just plain garbage.

>>60182710
No, I was just curious where do they hire online smart asses like you.

So Haskellers, what am I doing wrong?

import System.Random

rollDice stg = ((a, b), g)
    where
        (a, g1) = randomR (1, 6) stg
        (b, g) = randomR (1, 6) g1

Since the first of the two umbers is always 6 with every StdGen I use I also tried:

rollDice stg = ((b, c), g)
    where
        (_, g1) = randomR (1, 6) stg
        (b, g2) = randomR (1, 6) g1
        (c, g) = randomR (1, 6) g2

but I get a strange error I don't understand

>>60182735
just stop, you are embarrassing yourself

whats the best statically typed lisp?

Vi burde få oss en discord chat eller noe sånt, son som de andre trådene har.

>>60182771
It's the same as the best Lisp.

>>60182771
bigloo

>>60182735
Perhaps /g/ isn't the best place for you; Rust might be more suitable.

We don't speak muslim on 4chan

>>60182773
Nei, ta din dumhet til et annet sted.

>>60182768
I'm not embarrassed at all. So tell me what makes you such an irreplaceable professional programmer that no hobbyist is able to achieve?
I'm really curious what you think.

>>60182803
/g/ is my place since a long time bro. I love it.

what I dont' understand, is that if lisp is so powerful and so great, why did it not ever take off in a big way? what happened in the 80s and 90s that OOP langs and C remained dominant?
and lisp isn't even that particularly hard to learn or that complex, so it can't be the difficulty of it

>>60182803
>/g/ - where everybody uses C and shit get spilled everywhere.
Sounds about right

>>60182814
Hvorfor ikke? Alle de kule trådene har det, det er det eneste du mangler.

>>60182735
Most workplaces have banter.

All the Swedish I know, I know from Civ 5

>>60182849
>>60182773
IRC > Discord

>>60182860
norsk > svensk

TKinter or PyQT5?

>>60182849
Det ville være ekstremt autistisch. Også denne tråden tillater ikke ikke-mennesker å legge inn i det slik at alle i diskordet ikke kunne delta.

>>60182819
Free software didn't really take off until the late 80s, most compilers and implementations of certain languages cost money, LOTS of money.
Platforms like smalltalk and lisp died out simply because they were open sourced far too late to gain a foothold in a C world.

>>60182816
He's probably just a faggot whose dependent types are nothing but what to shill in response to other shills.
That or just a codemoney some big corp

>>60182905
I'd say lisp is very much still alive.

how do i do what i'm trying to do here in python?

maxi = max([l, r, i], key = A[])

i want to set maxi to the maximum index or l, r, and i by their corresponding element in A

>>60182924
How much does a lisp job pay?

>>60182819
Fragmentation is a bitch. There are like cl, gcc and clang

There are gazillions of lisp, schemes and other stuff. Instead of making one or two actually good and solid systems, lisp elitists continued to fragment the ecosystem. Linux suffers greatly from that too

>>60182915
Utter nonsense. I use dependent types in my work every day, and they help me write concise code and avoid bugs.

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>>60182943
It pay in pinky emacs. Bonus points if actually using emacs

>>60182955
What language are you using?

>>60182943
$600k

>>60182955
>muh fp
And they said memers can't be hired. Are you a teacher?

My other question - is it useful to learn lisp / lisp dialect? Lets not even consider from a hobbyist perspective, or even a "skills" perspective, but solely a "success in the marketplace" perspective. are there enough lisp jobs out there? do they pay well? will there be demand for lisp programmers in the future?

>>60182766
What error? I got it to run by adding a type annotation.

main = do  
  std <- getStdGen
  let ((a, b), g) = rollDice std 
  print $ (a, b)  

rollDice :: RandomGen g => g -> ((Integer, Integer), g)
rollDice stg = ((a, b), g)
    where
        (b, g) = randomR (1, 6) g1
        (a, g1) = randomR (1, 6) stg

>>60182984
Sorry I meant *professor*

>>60182984
No, I'm far too impatient to be a teacher.

>>60182970
Scala, Haskell, or Idris, depending on the project.

>>60182783
this does not answer my question

>>60182941
this is what i want to do more concisely

    if A[l] > A[i]:
        maxi = l
    if A[r] > A[i]:
        maxi = r

please help

>>60183005
Well, you're actually autistic enough to be hired by using meme languages. Kudos

>>60182984
>memers
>>>/v/

>>60183017
kid, there is more out there than just python JS, java, rails, and C#

>>60183017
>meme
see >>60183021

>>60183033
Sure. there's Delphi and Fortran too if you want job security. I'm sure no one will rush to take one of those jobs out of you either.

>>60183005
>Scala, Haskell, or Idris
Neither of those can help "avoid bugs", assuming you have high enough standards.

>>60183074
He's obviously on a boner rush over his meme languages.

@60183092
>meme
Don't reply to my posts.

>>60183171
>

>>60183171
Stop me, alternatively filter me

Does someone have the programming challenge image that's labeled with easy, medium, and hard challenges?

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Continuity of a real function can be defined very tersely using hyperreal extension. Homotopy type theory relies on an analogue of continuity to define equality. Currently, implementing homotopy type theory is difficult and requires simplicial sets or cubical sets with complicated machinery on top.

I'm wondering if there is an analogue to hyperreal extension that can be used here. Or maybe our current techniques actually end up being that analogue. It's interesting nonetheless.

How can I improve this?

#Average weight of patients

print('Enter the weight of the patient, or enter a 0 to terminate.\n')
counter = 0
weight = 1
totalWeight = 0
average = 0

while weight != 0:
    weight = float(input('Enter patient weight: '))
    if weight > 0:
        counter += 1
        totalWeight += weight
        average = totalWeight / counter

    else:
        print('Average weight of',counter,'patients is:',format(average,'.2f'))
a = input()

>>60183351
Write it in a non-shit language.

>>60183074
Do you understand anything whatsoever?

>>60183386
>FP can't never ever wrong
>behead those who oppose
>rrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>60183407
I'll take that as a no.

>>60183386
I do. You can't possibly claim that an unsound language can help you avoid bugs, assuming you aren't a subhuman who thinks "tests" can somehow do that.
>>60183407
>rrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>>/v/
>>>/b/

>>60183005
>> Uses Idris at work.
Now I'm curious. What do you work with?

>>60182766
if >>60182993 works for you
the error is probably monomorphism

>>60182035

are there any nordic programming languages other than Simula and C++?

>>60183457
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a316/3d9097a87a713f0dd3f154f139e19dcb2a82.pdf

>>60183494
Anything with that title can be safely disregarded.

>>60182318
Actually, C is for Cis straight males only

>>60183494
Didn't even read this, but are you claiming that a system where everything is provable is somehow capable of avoiding bugs?

>>60183457
There's a difference between "helping to avoid bugs" and "guaranteeing no bugs".

>>60183074
Ahahahaha you're so funny and clever!
Please continue to bitch every fucking day about this

>>60183611
Not really. You can't prove you have avoided a bug in an unsound system.

>>60183657
Correct.

>write a function with a type signature
>can't use it with arguments of the wrong type(s)
>this apparently isn't helping avoid bugs

>>60182988
Sometimes. Don't rely on it though. And you'll probably have to either start your own business, or prepare to move.

>>60183653
I don't know what you are implying with this.
>>60183673
In which case it's ridiculous to claim that they help you avoid bugs.
>>60183692
>this apparently isn't helping avoid bugs
It isn't. Assuming it's a language from the list posted earlier, you can't trust the type-checker to work correctly.
Also, do you absolutely have to write in this retarded fashion?

le epic greentext who are you quoting meme
shan't be responding anymore

>>60183753
Yes, that's the best course of action when you have been shown to be a complete idiot.
Not that I'd expect anything even remotely coherent from someone who uses "le".

>>60183740
>try to call a function that takes an int with a string
>compiler rejects it
The compiler isn't helping me avoid bugs, apparently. So it can't be the case that calling the function with a string is a bug and calling it with an int is not a bug.

So is it a bug to call a function that takes an int with an int, or is it not a bug to call a function that takes an int with a string?

>>60183446
>I'll take that as a no.
>>60183457
>>>>/v/
>>>>/b/
kek, more like you don't understand jack memer.
You honestly believe that using FP you will magically erase all the bugs of you program? Now that's delusional. This is at the same level of those who claim that using formal methods to design software will make flawless software because everything is within the domain and range of the software and there are strong guards to ensure both.
In reality what you get is just a *safer* language but not a language that will catch all the bugs you type into software.

>>60183657
Yes I can, if I have a static analyzer. The capabilities may be limited by the language not being designed for it, but good static analyzers exist for languages like C.

>>60183824
>You honestly believe that using FP you will magically erase all the bugs of you program?
No, I believe that using FP helps me avoid bugs. I never said it would "magically erase all the bugs".

>>60183845
Donny, you're out of your element.

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I feel like I'm learning some, but I have no idea what I want to do. Like I have no creative drive whatsoever.

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Let's make lists for every language of tasks, which can't be solved efficiently in these languages, /dpt/!
I'll start:

>Prolog
>Anything practical

>>60183801
>compiler rejects it
In a certain case it might reject it, but a broken compiler (anything from that list) can't possibly do its job correctly every single time, therefore it can't help you avoid bugs.

>>60183824
>kek
>memer
>>>/v/
>You honestly believe that using FP you will magically erase all the bugs of you program?
It's pretty clear from my posts that I don't.
>everything is within the domain and range of the software
That is physically impossible.
>>60183845
>but good static analyzers exist for languages like C.
Sure, but how is that relevant to my post? The static analyzer might be sound while C itself is unsound.

>>60183859
Prolog is great for resolving typeclass instances.

>>60183850
>using FP helps me avoid bugs
So does paying attention on what you write, faggot

>>60183859
> Forth
> Anything that doesn't run on a spacecraft

Auxiliary after methods for primary writer methods are such as hack and frankly don't follow the OOP philosophy.

For example, if I want a slot that depends on other slots to update after the any of the independent slots are changed, I'd have to write after methods for the writer methods of each of the independent slots in order to signal change to the dependent slot.
This is anthitetical to OOP, and the only way to combat it is to write a macro.

>>60183850
>I believe that using FP helps me avoid bugs
Claiming that FP itself does this is pretty retarded. A language which allows x : A to be both a valid judgement and an invalid one can't help you avoid bugs.

>>60183740
Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out you fucking cunt.
Nobody wants to listen to your "ebin funny trolls" every fucking day.

>>60183866
>>everything is within the domain and range of the software
>That is physically impossible.
not according to formal methods proponets. Which aren't that far away from the FP proponents either.

>>60183870
I agree, and I think paying attention to what other people have written helps too. For example, I state in >>60182955 that the languages I use
>help me write concise code and avoid bugs
not
>magically erase all the bugs of you program
and if you'd paid attention, you'd have realized that.

>>60183901
Claiming that FP does not make it easier to avoid bugs is retarded.

>>60183925
Don't reply to him

>>60183898
>This is anthitetical to OOP
Good.

>>60183911
So basically is full circle, you pay attention in what you write and the software contains fewer bugs? Right? So what's the point of the FP? Oh yeah, to be a meme language so you can have a job at facebook writing the next whatsapp release.

>>60183859

public class Node {
    public int obj;
    public Node next;


   public Node(int o) { obj = o; next = null; }
}

public class List {
    private Node list;
    private Node front;

    public List() { list = null; front = null; }

    public void add(int o) {
        if (list == null) {
            list = new Node(o);
            front = list;
        } else {
            front.next = new Node(o);
            front = front.next;
       }
    }
}

There's a list for most languages

>>60183907
>not according to formal methods proponets.
Who are these "formal proponents"? You can formally prove certain properties of your software, but what you said would be physically impossible and I don't believe anyone actually claims it.
>>60183911
>help me avoid bugs
Which it doesn't.
>>60183925
"helps me avoid bugs" and "makes it easier to avoid bugs" aren't the same thing.
You can have a functional language which purposefully makes it harder to avoid bugs. It isn't an intrinsic property of FP.
>>60183942
Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you.
>>60183949
>meme
>>>/v/

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>"helps me avoid bugs" and "makes it easier to avoid bugs" aren't the same thing.

>>60183983
The first sentence means you can be sure that you have avoided a bug.
The second sentence means it is easier to avoid bugs under certain assumptions.
It's pretty fucking retarded to claim that these are somehow the same.

You are autistic.

>>60183946
Why is this good, you'd have to repeat yourself.

Who is autistic?

>>60184007
OOP is bad.

>>60184017
>Let me repeat this /dpt/ meme, it sure will prove I'm smart and know what I'm talking about.

Are OOP haters the new SJWs?

>>60184038
Prove that OOP is good.

>>60184038
>meme
>>>/v/

ADA + Spark is a pretty cool way to develop safe programs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARK_(programming_language)

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Threadly reminder that dlang-chan is not dead, and she's super duper cute and fast! Say something nice about her, /dpt/!

>>60184045
>OOP is bad gaise
>What??? You prove it's its good, its not like the burden of proof is on me.

>>60184068
Am I in your will?

>>60184090
>burden of proof
If you are going to invoke that, at least do it correctly.

>>60184054
>If I tell you to go to a board that /g/ sees as inferior, that will surely imply that I'm better than you, and therefore your opinions are worthless.

>>60184090
not him

Why would someone choose to use OOP?

If there is no reason to choose to use it, then obivously it's bad as a paradigm.

>>60184090
"OOP is bad" is clearly the sensible default. Well, it's more like "OOP is not good" by default, but adding things to your code that don't improve it always makes it worse.

>>60183490

"GRUNNUR"

Which one is it easier to spot a bug in, /g/?

Set<Bar> foos2bars(Map<Integer, Foo> foos)
{
    Set<Bar> result = new HashSet<Bar>();
    for (int i = 0; i <= foos.size(); i++) {
        Foo foo = foos.get(i);
        result.add(foo2bar(foo));
    }
    return result;
}

foos2bars :: Map Integer Foo -> Set Bar
foos2bars = Set.fromList . fmap foo2bar . Map.elems

As you know, it's a trick question! It's the same difficulty in both of them!

>>60182035
Scraped Sukebei and working on uploading all the info in a proper manner now that Nyaa is kill

>>60184100
>I replied to a post claiming that OOP is bad, even though that wasn't the context of the post.
>I got called out an then replied that OOP is bad
>However, the person who called me out has to prove that OOP is good even though I claimed it was bad

>>60184114
the second

>>60183971
>Who are these "formal proponents"?
Like most proponents, they're mostly academia and hard science (Cambridge/NASA/ESA). I can fetch you some names if you like, but I don't see the point.
Their take is basically have a formal spec of what the software will do and use theorems to prove that your software will never enter invalid states.
So by domain and range what I (they) mean is that the software will theoretically never enter in an invalid state or will accept an out of range input. This is obviously used to develop and deploy safety critical systems, which is why they can afford huge development time. And yet we have shit like Ariane 5.

>>60183971
>>meme
Sorry, it's still a meme

>>60184114
Perhaps you should have read the post you're replying to more carefully.
"avoiding bugs" != "making it easier to avoid bugs". Not that a deficient type system user would understand.

>>60184105
If you can't prove something you claim, then why comment in the first place?

>>60183959
>nodes and lists are different classes
For purpose? Every node is a list anyway.

>>60184143
Everything you said there is correct. I assumed you meant that someone claims they can somehow account for all possible outside world variables such as hardware, etc.

>>60184144
Perhaps you should read my post more carefully, I didn't reply to a single person in it.

>>60184068

rm -rf /usr/bin/dmd

>>60184161

:^)

>>60184004
>compiler will not let me pass an argument that is not an int to a function that takes an int
>the bug of passing anything other than an int to the function has been avoided

>>60184167
Maybe it's your non-existent social skills messing it up, but that post clearly reads like a reply to another poster. You not deciding to explicitly use the ">>" notation to reply to him doesn't change that.

>>60184160
Ever heard of the law of excluded middle? I don't see any proof that OOP is good. Therefore, I can conclude that OOP is not good until proven otherwise. And as I stated earlier, "not good" is equivalent to "bad" when it comes to programming tools.

>>60184188
>Maybe it's your non-existent social skills messing it up, but that post clearly reads like a reply to another poster.
Maybe you should stop reading things that aren't there.

Take the first line of the post:
>Which one is it easier to spot a bug in, /g/?

It's quite clearly a question to /g/ as a whole, not a reply to any individual poster.

>>60184181
:v)

>>60184164
You apply this methods to hardware design too, which is where they were actually born. So in an ideal world, both the hardware and the software were developed *correctly* under formal methods and the hardware must be able to deal with whatever input is give, granted it doesn't melt or freeze under it's operational conditions.

>>60184185
>compiler will not let me pass an argument that is not an int to a function that takes an int
You can't prove this.
>>the bug of passing anything other than an int to the function has been avoided
Only assuming the compiler actually worked this time. Which is a baseless assumption.
>>60184191
>Ever heard of the law of excluded middle?
You're not allowed to use that garbage until you can prove that "OOP is good" is decidable.

>>60184214
My compiler has been formally verified.

>>60184212
>You apply this methods to hardware design too
I haven't heard much about that, but it would obviously also be limited by our current understanding of physics. So nobody sane will claim what you said previously.

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Currently reviving the Human theme in Ubuntu 8.04 with the icons and fonts because they don't work in the new version of MATE,

>>60184214
>You're not allowed to use that garbage until you can prove that "OOP is good" is decidable.
>what is classical logic

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Program something profound.

>>60184232
If that's the case, then why did you even reply to me? It's clear from the context that by "compiler" I mean "A [currently available] compiler for Idris, Haskell or Scala".
>>60184243
>what is classical logic
Garbage is what it is.

>>60184114
Actually, I wonder if /dpt/ can spot the bug at all.

>>60184191
Such a cop-out.
More like you don't entertain the thought of OOP being good because of /g/, and therfore you won't examine if its good or not.

>>60184257
>It's clear from the context that by "compiler" I mean "A [currently available] compiler for Idris, Haskell or Scala"
You do not have knowledge of the entire set of Idris, Haskell, and Scala compilers in existence.

>>60184257
Classical and constructive logic are both equally valid, and they intersect precisely when your formula is decidable.

>>60184268
It's not a cop-out, it's common sense. Why don't you try to convince me that OOP is good with some evidence?

>>60184268
OOP as implemented by most mainstream languages is bad because it is full of shared mutable state.

>>60184233
>I haven't heard much about that,
Well obviously

>but it would obviously also be limited by our current understanding of physics.
You really don't understand academia, do you?

>So nobody sane will claim what you said previously.
Definitively don't understand academia.

I'm gonna summarize as condensed as I can.
If there were a silver bullet for software development, we'll all be doing it. So no FP, no formal methods, no fucking emacs nor any other shitty memes about how X or Y makes software development some sort of out-of-body-nirvana experience

>>60184293
OOP exists specifically to avoid shared mutable state.

>>60184301
OOP exists specifically to share mutable state

>>60184301
Then why is every Java, C#, and C++ program I have ever seen full of it?

>>60184301
It clearly doesn't work.

>>60184280
Which is why I said "currently available".
>>60184283
He didn't prove that "OOP is good" is decidable. I (and anyone sane) don't accept the law of the excluded middle for all propositions.

>this tool is good
>no it's not
>prove it then faggot LMAO XD

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>Attempt to write a ray tracer for the first time
>After many hard to find bugs finally start to get it working
>tfw you feel like a god

And its not even close to being done yet. I have so much more to add to this thing.

>>60184295
>If there were a silver bullet for software development, we'll all be doing it
Proving correctness of programs with respect to a certain specification can't and shouldn't be a "silver bullet". I don't know why retards such as yourself think this.
>meme
>>>/v/

>>60184293
Expand on this
Give me sub points and examples.

>>60184340
Should have used Idris.

>>60184168
That's fine, you should be using ldc anyway

>>60184341
Because retards as yourself -- who fail basic reading comprehension behind the word meme -- can't see that I'm against correctness as a "silver bullet".
Try again, mememster

>>60184366
So you think it might be better to write code that isn't correct?

>>60184366
You're obviously claiming that there are people who think it can be a "silver bullet". Or you're claiming that it doesn't have an application because it's not a "silver bullet". Both of which are utterly retarded statements.
>meme
>>>/v/

>>60184376
I like you anon, you have a certain something to appear smart even when you're eating shit from your dippers.

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/dpt/, and other discussion platforms for that matter, have been strangely obsessed with Coq and proofs lately

why is that
everyones tired of C ub shenanigans and Js ubiquitousity or what

>>60184340
godspeed anon, first time raytracer is better than first sex. now make some good ol perlin and make this ball look funny

>>60184067
Ada isn't an acronym

>>60184353
>LLVM
hgnnn

>>60184411
>other discussion platforms
Like what?

>>60184394
I note that you didn't attempt to refute my assertion.

Tell me anon, which company do you think will hire someone who thinks it might not be best to write correct code?

>>60184391
>You're obviously claiming that there are people who think it can be a "silver bullet".
Actually this. And perhaps the argument might seem retarded. But I've seen enough people claiming they have some sort of silver bullet. It's just retarded and they should be allowed near a compiler

People don't prove their programs often because:
a) most people can't write proofs, period
b) most people don't care
c) it's tedious since you often have to use multiple tools and you end up with a lot of duplication

>>60184419
Microsoft. That was easy

The company I work for showed interest in creating a server dedicated to microservices and I got put on the Jira ticket for it.

Spun that bitch up on NodeJS with TypeScript and for the production build use the NPM package `pkg` so the microservice server can be run on free-bsd, linux, macos, and windows.

The tasks it's being used for are very low level data tracking. So, created a small abstraction over a couple JSON files to act as a database with the same API as the NPM package `mongodb` if we ever decide to do some heavy lifting.

Funnest project I've done in months.

Can /g/ find the bug?

Set<Bar> foos2bars(Map<Integer, Foo> foos)
{
    Set<Bar> result = new HashSet<Bar>();
    for (int i = 0; i < foos.size(); i++) {
        Foo foo = foos.get(i);
        result.add(foo2bar(foo));
    }
    return result;
}

>>60184450
A microservice server with no dependencies. :^)

>>60184450
>>>/g/wdg

>>60184434
>And perhaps the argument might seem retarded.
That's because it is.
>But I've seen enough people claiming they have some sort of silver bullet.
No. Someone like that wouldn't be a called a "person". Which means I was correct.
I'm pretty sure it's just your mind misinterpreting things. I simply refuse to believe someone can blatantly deny physics to such a degree assuming they are even slightly intelligent.
>It's just retarded and they should be allowed near a compiler
Yes. But it doesn't imply that the second part of my post is incorrect.

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>>60184463
The time he used pkg it stopped being wdg you doofus

>>60184411
>The book is now rather dated: most of the material is from around 1990, and many of the problems cited no longer exist. For example, it complains about the lack of a journaling file system and states that a graphical user interface would be an oxymoron for Unix, but these features are now standard. A large proportion of the complaints are about anomalies in the command line interface. It predates the rise of Linux and thus concerns the several commercial versions of Unix then available (the inconsistencies between them being another major complaint in the book)—most of which have since ceased to exist.
huh.

>>60184486
NodeJS implies webdev.

>>60184450
You use node on the backend in my team and you get fired.

>>60184480
>Someone like that wouldn't be a called a "person". Which means I was correct.
>I cherry pick definitions
Your whole post is invalid, memster

>>60184452
foos.get

>>60184538
What's buggy about that?

>>60184530
It's not. Even if we assume it is (which it isn't), the previous post is valid.
>memster
>>>/v/

>>60184565
You haven't formally proved that the previous post is valid.

>>60184557
std::map doesn't have a .get afaik

>>60184579
Anything I say is true by the first axiom of this thread.

>>60184452
The bug is that you're referencing C after it has been incremented.

>updated gcc to 6.x
>faggy syntax highlighting everywhere
They took all the wrong cues from clang, fuck GNU.
How do I get rid of this shit, I don't even have syntax highlighting in my editor.

>>60184565
>cherry pick definition of person
>his post is now valid under this new, cherry picked definition.
>still claims that he's correct
fp at it's best, fucking memster,

>>60184582
The code is Java, not C++. Sorry, I should have specified.

https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/Map.html

>>60184597
What is C?

>>60184590
>the first axiom of this thread
What is that?

>>60184606
Oh, well there's no hope bugchecking Java code

>>60184616
I guess is this >>60182064 and an FP language was sent

>>60184606
I believe it was a C++ joke.

>>60184605
Reread my posts until you get it. Or just fuck off to /v/
>>60184616
Are you using the /g/ interface?

>>60184649
>>>/muh_dick/
fucking memster

>>60184649
No, I don't even know what that is.

>>60184647
Well, it wasn't a very good joke considering I wasn't using C++.

>>60184452
Could result in NPE? There could be 10 key-value pairs in foos, but that doesn't mean that the keys are (1..10). The keys could be {78, 2, -33, 1, 2, 80, 60233, 81, 18, 6}.

>>60184698
You are correct. Well done anon.

>>60184520
Kind of odd when Amazon, Google, Facebook, and others have NodeJS applications in production. Don't ya think?

>>60184660
It's a formalization of all /g/ threads.

>>60182128
>>lisp
>static typing not standardized
We've moved on since MacLisp, gramps.

Can I learn how to program following this curriculum?
https://github.com/open-source-society/computer-science

Will I ever find a job before I finish it?

>>60184708
Facebook uses PHP, and Google uses Go. I hardly think they can be regarded as model companies regarding technology stacks.

I don't know what stack Amazon uses.

>>60184698
I should add the way I would implement this:

Set<Bar> foos2bars(Map<Integer, Foo> foos)
{
    Set<Bar> result = new HashSet<>();
    for( Foo foo: foos ) {
        result.add(foo2bar(foo));
    }
    return result;
}

>>60184729
Looks good to me.

>>60184726
Facebook use's Hack, not PHP. An alternative to the Zend runtime. They use a lot more than just Hack, too.

Same for Google. Lots of CPython, Go, C/C++, and others, like NodeJS.

>>60184774
>Lots of CPython, Go, C/C++
Not really selling me on the idea that you should do anything other than completely disregard Google's technology choices.

How do you feel about multiple return statements in C?

return *str = '!', str;

>>60184716
Almost certainly undecidable.

>>60184821
Isn't that the same as

*str = '!';
return str;

?

>>60184821
The same thing as block expressions in Rust, just far less elegant.

>>60184839
I'm not very skilled in C, so this might not be correct, but I believe no. >>60184821
returns both '!' and a pointer to it ???

>>60184888
I don't think C supports multiple return values. You have to use structs.

>>60184907
I didn't think so. but I was pretending for a moment that they did.

>>60184926
Why?

>>60184821
Jesus fucking christ no

don't do this again you stupid imperative language faggots

what the fuck is so hard to understand about tuples or even anonymous structs?
fuck you

>>60184932
As I stated, I'm not very skilled in C. I thought maybe there was some oddball implementation that supported this, or maybe some advanced language feature I've never heard of. For the purposes of replying to >>60184839
I assumed that was the case.

>>60184966
Does C have anonymous structs?

>>60184966
There's nothing I hate more than when someone who agrees with me makes my position look stupid.

Are there many programming jobs in Iceland?

>>60184986
struct { int a, int b } eeee = { 1, 2 };

It doesn't seem very useful, you can't even return it in a function without a label.

>>60184986
by anonymous structs i don't mean what C calls anonymous structs

I mean something like
>>60185007

but the return type would be implicit

pls reply fast
>>60184723

>>60185007
>you can't even return it in a function without a label
What do you mean by this?

Is Scheme good for game programming?

>>60185044
kek

>>60185036
The answer is no. Unless you are a programming god with connections and good social skills then you will not land a decent job without a degree.

>>60182390
It's not particularly slow, but it is fairly huge, memory-wise.

>>60185040
You need some kind of identifier.
At least typedef or macro it so every variable and function working with the anonymous struct will have the same definition, but at that point, you can just use the struct namespace.

What is the best programming language for a knight?

>>60185059
Well, to be honest I was thinking on learning something by myself, finding a job where I can learn some real world shit and than getting a degree...

>>60185086

struct { int a, int b } foo() {
  struct { int a, int b } x;
  x.a = 10;
  x.b = 20;
  return x;
}

>>60185098
What is a "Real world"?

>>60185116
Beautiful.

>>60185126
In a language much more different from C it would look more like this.

struct { int a, int b} foo() {
  return { a = 10, b = 20 };
}

Or you'd even have type inference.

>>60185119
https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.9.1.0/docs/Control-Monad-ST.html#t:RealWorld

Should i learn python?
How hard it is? According to internet it is one of the easiest languages out there

i know c/c++/java/js/php

@60185119
Sometimes I forget that there are people with severe aspergers syndrome on /dpt/.

>>60185116
You're still using an identifier.
The entire struct definition is the type name.
Maybe this can be used as another namespace?
Why don't you just typedef it? It's the same thing under the hood.

>>60185165
Python is easy as fuck. The syntax takes like 15 minutes to learn, and then you just import whatever you need and string together library functions.

>>60185165
>Should i learn python?
No. Assuming you are human.

>>60185172
>Why don't you just typedef it? It's the same thing under the hood.
If all you do is take C and add anonymous structs like that, you don't get much from it. Anonymous structs are much more useful when you can initialize them like so: >>60185142
They're even more useful when you have generics and/or type inference.

>>60185196
C doesn't have anything like this, everything must be known at compile time.
The only reason C even has types is so it can boil down all your .member operators to byte offsets for the assembler.

>>60184797
Don't be silly.

>>60185222
>C doesn't have anything like this
True.

>everything must be known at compile time
But not because of this.

>>60185222
>>60185252
>The only reason C even has types is so it can boil down all your .member operators to byte offsets for the assembler.
Plus, this is actually a case for having anonymous structs and/or structural typing instead of C's current nominally typed named structs.

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>>60185247

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Rate my hello world.

;; Doesn't print anything
hello : string
fun hello := "Hello, world!".
fun main := (λ s -> s) hello.

>>60185288
goddamn the elitism in this industry is unparalleled.

>>60185343
>elitism
Do you think it's elitist for doctors to use modern medicine and diagnostics instead of bloodletting and leeches?

>>60185341
100/10

>>60185343
Don't worry, I'm sure you can make all those elitists lose their jobs by calling their employers and claiming they were rude to you online.

so the python range function

range()

produces a range from the starting number up to, but not including the end number. Wouldn't it make more sense to include the end number?

>>60185423
No, it wouldn't.

>>60185429
And why not?

>>60185438
Because [x,y] is not more useful than [x,y).

>>60185423
No, because it's mainly intended for looping over structures with zero-based indexing. It's got a bad name, that's all.

>>60185458
What would you name it instead? I think "range" is perfect.

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>>60185410
Thank you!

>>60185472
Something alluding to zero-based indexing. I would rather have a function called range that is inclusive on both ends and simply expect the programmer to subtract 1 if that's how it's being used.

>>60185410
Oh, and could I get a more detailed rating? I want to improve my program.

>>60185501
Try replacing -> with → and string with String

also neither hello nor main are actually functions, and they're pure values anyway so := seems redundant
but it does have a nice symmetry with :

>>60185522
>Try replacing -> with → and string with String
Yeah, that's probably something I will do. Or maybe I should replace -> with ⇒ since that feels more like implication.
:= is being used in the sense of "is defined as".

Does zero-based indexing actually have any benefits over one-based indexing? It's easier to translate to pointer arithmetic, sure, but pointer arithmetic isn't even necessary if arrays are primitive and first class (so not like in C). You could argue that it requires an extra subtraction to implement, but you could also just start from an earlier address.

Conversely, one-based indexing is better if you want to follow mathematical conventions, which is useful for languages based on type theory. It's also more intuitive.

>>60185616
>Conversely, one-based indexing is better if you want to follow mathematical conventions
No

>>60185616
I am pretty confident type theory uses zero-based indexing.

I just got hired to a solid programming job.
I love it here and it's only my 2nd day.
The pay is great, the people are nice
the building is wonderful
This place is life changing

but... they use cobol, so I'm learning to use their technologies and cobol at the same time, and I'm slowly getting the hang of it nut I want to be able to help the company.

How can I learn cobol quickly? Its not like any other language I used before, I thought c++ and java were hard to start with, cobol is killing me. Please help if you can, I'll understand if you decide not to.

>>60185650
F

>>60185637
Do we live on the same planet?

>>60185641
"Type theory" in general doesn't use indexing at all. It's just mathematically rigorous, so why depart from mathematical conventions?

>>60185667
f?
Like the language f?

>>60185683
My mathematical conventions use zero-based indexing.

>>60185667
fsharp

>>60185688
I'm pressing F to pay respects
There's no hope for you, anon

COBOL is all the worst parts of assembly with all the fun parts of Perl

>>60185683
It's obvious that I mean "people who do type theory". In which case it would be considered a mathematical convention.
>>60185702
Same here.

>>60185702
I weep for anyone who has to communicate with you about mathematics.

>>60185650
>COBOL
F

>>60185718
I weep for everyone who has to put up with you starting everything at 1. Your code must be horrific.

>>60185650
F

>>60185731
The difference between you and me is that I can adapt to my surroundings. I may not like it, but I can appreciate the historical reasons for it being the standard in general purpose programming.

>>60185712
>>60185724
This is so dificult. I don't understand how everyone else does it.
I'm sure once I learn it I'll do just fine, but their teaching method is "sink or swim" and I'm afraid to sink.

I figure if I could just learn cobol, I'll be able to adjust much better to using their technologies and following their procedures.

But every time I look at the program i'm reading greek, because it doesn't make sense compared to any other language I know.

>>60185683
type indices

>>60185751
Why do you think we said F?

>>60185749
I adapted, from 1-based math to 0-based math, when I was about 6. Maybe even younger.

>>60185785
I can juggle both depending on whether I am programming or doing mathematics. I know you will reply saying they are essentially the same thing, and you're right, but the conventions are different. I don't think they should be for precisely that reason.

>>60185761
What do you mean by this?

>>60185800
I was taught math using 0-based indexing. So was the anon in >>60185717. Please at least try to understand that.

>>60185812
GADTs

>>60185776
>>60185736
>>60185724
>>60185712
>>60185711
>>60185667

Thank you guys, at least now I know what I'm up against.
I refuse to give up, the job is way too good to ever give in. They're going to have to fire me.

>>60185820
So an indicator of a degenerate type system?

>>60185828
If you can git gud with COBOL you're set for a good portion of your career. Lots of old systems still running COBOL, and it's difficult to find people to maintain them.

>>60185818
The vast majority weren't, and even if they were, it's not what's used. I've never seen linear algebra with zero-based indexing of vector/matrix components.

>>60185820
That's a different kind of indexing, but I think you knew that.

>>60185834
I think you just don't understand types and type systems at all. Do you have node stickers on your laptop?

>>60185845
>I've never seen linear algebra with zero-based indexing of vector/matrix components.
And I've never seen an elephant.

>The vast majority weren't, and even if they were, it's not what's used.
It is used, though.

i have a shitposting bot that cycles through vpn ips per post
problem is its not very efficient since i only have a limited amount and eventually all of them will get deleted/banned trivially
my idea was to check a proxy list if theyre banned and cycle through those but i dont know how to do that or where to begin, any tipa?

>>60185838
look at this shit

01 WS-NUM1 PIC S9(3)V9(2).

when you display it it comes out to

+000.00

do you know how retarded that is?
it took me an hour just to catch on to what the hell it was doing.