/fglt/ - Friendly GNU/Linux Thread

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>tfw using Arch plebs as beta testers

2nd for elementary

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>>59606159
No hard feelings

>>59606159
Manjaro lost pretty much any reputation with the system time happening.

So I'm a windowsfag that's been shopping around for a good distro to switch to.

I was recently redpilled on systemd. Can anyone point me to either a list of good distros that don't use it, or even a particular systemd-less distro they would recommend?

Also semi-related: I'm a noob when it comes to low-level *nix, but I keep hearing that a lot of stuff depends on systemd. By choosing to forsake it, am I going to be losing a lot of functionality? Alternatively, could somebody give me a good explanation as to how things can explicitly depend on an init/management system, which I would have expected to run transparently in the background? Pls no bully

>>59606329
>I was recently redpilled on systemd
>Pls no bully
m8

>>59606329
force the DE developers to use systemd as a non-optional dependency, all it takes

>>59606329
>I was recently redpilled on systemd

>I was recently bamboozled by memers and faggots on /g/

Ftfy

>>59606329
Because systemd is no longer only an init. That's like one of the main complaints. Shit's even affecting the kernel nowadays.

>>59606347
>>59606388
What insightful responses.

>>59606329
>By choosing to forsake it, am I going to be losing a lot of functionality?
I'm running Arch with openrc, and everything works after installing systemd compatibility packages like eudev-sysyemd and libeudev-systemd.
>Can anyone point me to either a list of good distros that don't use it
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#Free_and_Open-Source_.28FOSS.29_operating_systemswithout_systemd_in_the_default_installation
I'd also recommend manjaro openrc.

>>59606435
The problem is that all distros that don't have systemd aren't exactly beginner-friendly.

>>59606329
>a list of good distros
Debian Ubuntu Fedora openSUSE Gentoo
>that don't use it
only leaves us with Gentoo

>>59606435
>I'm running Arch
Me too, btw.

>>59606466
>only leaves us with Gentoo
I considered installing Gentoo but I don't want my CPU to melt or my electricity bills to triple.

>>59606456
Manjaro is beginner friendly. That's why I've recommended it to him.

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>>59606505

>>59606520
That's their site problem, not their os's. Also, that could happen to Ubuntu site as well.

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>>59606505
.

>>59606493
You could check out PCLinuxOS, see if it suits you

>>>59606539
>>59606538

>>59606559
>PCLinuxOS
worst distro name ever

>>59606584
won't argue with that
BUT it's systemd-free and beginner-firendly

>>59606584
I want argue with that
https://www.linuxliteos.com/

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>>59606614
lmao

>>59606634
Does not appear with anti adblock killer.

>>59606584
At least it's not a nigger name like Ubuntu

>>59606651
Will that conflict with ublock?

>>59606659
Nope. It's designed to coexist with adblockers.

>>59606651
Will check.

>>59606456
Eh I have some experience, I'm willing to get dirty.

>>59606435
Good to know, but
>manjaro
From what I heard it's basically Arch but with bloat. Am I wrong?

>>59606493
Explain please


I've been unironically considering something like SourceMage for the memes but I can't figure out for shit if they're using systemd or not.

>>59606687
>bloat
What's bloat again? Definitions seem to differ here.

>>59606687
Manjaro is Arch but with graphical installer and 2 week package delay. This way it breaks less than Arch.

>>59606687
Half joking, since Gentoo requires you to compile every single thing you want to install, including the distro itself, hence the processor melting/elec bill increasing ten fold.

>>59606329
>So I'm a windowsfag that's been shopping around for a good distro to switch to.
Stopped reading there. Ubuntu-MATE, use it for a few weeks, then come back and you will have learnt a lot to be in a better position to decide and hop on something new.

If you want to learn, you'll have to dip your cock into a lot of distros to see how they drive. If you want something that "just werks", stick to Ubuntu-MATE.

>accidentally uninstalled all of GNOME
>with apt-get --purge
>lost internet connection
>cant get the packages again

rip

>>59606614
>tfw """translation""" of that page is just a (broken) redirect to google translate
kek.

>>59606736
boot from usb and chroot into yo system.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Base#Copy_DNS_info

tool for mass music organization?

>>59607035

man rm

>>59607079
this doesn't help me

>>59606725
>>59606705
That makes sense. By bloat I mostly mean packages I will never use, and stuff running in the background that I don't actually need. So usually 90% of preinstalled stuff on any distro which does have preinstalled stuff.

>>59606731
But I don't want something that "just werks". I want something better, and I appreciate that I will have to learn, but Ubuntu will not teach me anything. I already know how to use the shell and the basics of system management and package management. What else would I have to gain from trying ubuntu?

>>59607035
What are you trying to do? Tag audio files? Move them around?

>>59607178
keep reading

>>59607218
tagging them, yeah

>>59607235
puddletag is simliar to mp3tag

>>59607235
http://beets.io/

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>>59606254
Nah. They're human beings just like you and me who are always learning from their mistakes. Manjaro fills a very desirable niche. Take a look at archlinux.org, there are constantly little bugs and things happening, most of them probably won't effect you but eventually one will, and every once in a great while there will be one that fucks with a ton of users. What the Manjaro devs do is a great service to keep users who don't wish to from having to deal with any of that. They don't generally keep packages for more than 30 days so you're still more up to date than pretty much everyone but Arch. Fedora gets GNOME packages about the same time as Arch though so you'll be behind Fedora and Arch on that front. UNLESS You're using the Manjaro unstable repos which sync with Arch stable. But that's a whole 'nother post.

>>59606159
out of all the distros I've tried to use on pc and raspberry, over the years arch has always been the one to give me the least shit. *buntu shits the bed the second boot after a clean install or during updates, invariably. Every other distro broke and shat the bed during other normal use or didn't even get as far as normal use. Arch has been just werking on my laptop for ages and on my raspberry pi for 2 years, 0 problems

>>59607323
Firs time?
Ok
2nd time with the same exact problem?
Nah
3rd time with the same exact problem?
kek

pls stop posting "just werks"
it makes me angry ;_;

>>59607389
>2nd time with the same exact problem?
>Nah
>3rd time with the same exact problem?
>kek
It never effected me for some reason

>>59607390
>le ironic "just werks" shitposting with the sole purpose of making you angry
[spoiler]Though you have to admit that it just werks[/spoiler]

>>59607390
Filtering "just werks" with 4chanx just werks.

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>>59607416
Read
>>59606520
Read
>>59606539

>>59607390
It's that an Apple slogen?

>>59607433
>>59606539
>>59606520
>website problems
wew

if archlinux.org gets down, do you uninstall it?

>using anything but the mainstream distributions with a large user/maintainer/developer base
ishygddt

>>59607465
If they go down for hosting reasons, not for forgetting to renew the ssl cert 3 times, and not when they tell me to revert my system date
kek

>under 1000 packages on Debian
how the fuck do I do this

I have no idea what I can safely uninstall and what I can't
shitty aptitude has no real dependency tree functionality either

>I have Manjaro already pre installed on my thinkpad

Fuck.

>>59607468
>don't let small distros go big
>let the big ones dictate the community
t-thanks

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>>59606520
>unironically telling people to revert to an earlier date because your certificate expired

That's actually amazing.

Manjaro is still 100k better than Mint.

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>>59606520
holy fuck not even currysoft is capable of this level of incompetence

>>59607544
>>59607526
>>59606520
stop samefagging, retard

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>>59607559
lol why are memejaro devs this insecure

>>59607570
>>59607559
>>59607544
>>59607526
>samefagging this hard
stahp

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>>59607559
No
>>59607570
Nice font rendering

>>59607570
Please fix your fonts.

>>59607592
>chrome
what is wrong with you

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>>59607570
Fuck off

>>59607592
>>59607603
there's nothing wrong with my font rendering you doofuses.

just because it doesn't replicate yours doesn't meant they're bad.

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>>59606254
>>59606505
>>59606520
>>59606538
>>59606539
>>59606725
>>59607389
>>59607433
>>59607465
>>59607476
KEK

>>59607570
>inspect element

>>59607603
He's right you know.

>>59607630
None of these are you!

>>59607647
>xfce edition
>not using glorious bspwm edition
Tried it in a VM a while back. neato.

>>59607630
>>59607592
>>59607570
>he doesn't rice his 4chin css

>>59607625
SJWfox died on me, I've been meaning to migrate to Iridium but I'm the anon that mentioned shopping for a good linux distro so I don't really feel the need to change my current system if I'm going to be switching my entire OS soon.

>>59607632
It's objectively shit and uneven you nigger

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>>59606100
i failed gcse maths.
do i have any hope in programming?
should i even spend my time trying?

>>59607696
Post yours then little shit

>>59607696
CSS is shit bloat, just disable it.

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>>59607632
>>59607570
>>59607603


-Creating an Infinality-like font configuration for Arch-
(pic related)

From a clean slate on Arch we can now create a similar font configuration to the infinality-bundle's without having to use the patched packages. It is now possible to easily get great-looking results with the default interpreter.

1. Create the following symlinks to instruct freetype2 to use good-looking rendering defaults

sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/11-lcdfilter-default.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d

sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-sub-pixel-rgb.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d

2. Modify (or create)

/etc/fonts/local.conf

to contain these contents: https://pastebin.com/rnDtdzt5

3. At this point your fonts should look pretty good and this is a fine place to stop. BUT we can do even better by making sure that we have all fonts on the system that were defined as substitutions earlier. To do this we need to install the packages

fonts-meta-extended-lt

and

fonts-meta-base

from the AUR which will build the rest of the fonts required.

After having done all this, restarting the X-server by logging out and back in should apply all changes.

-Screenshots-
Linux - Wikipedia: http://i.imgur.com/SM1gH6p.png
Github - http://i.imgur.com/P6ZFvJn.png
Arch website - http://i.imgur.com/NgXzDTA.png

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>>59607704
GNU//Linux*

>>59607716
>gcse maths
gcse?

If you suck at math, please do not code.

Will snaps replace traditional package managers, or simply exist as a complement?

I.e. will you be able to upgrade the kernel using snapd, or is snaps just for userland "apps" such as VLC, Firefox, Nautilus and whatnot?

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>>59607509
>derivatives that have no differences from the base distro except for more useless bloat preinstalled are worth using and supporting

>>59607704
>It's objectively shit and uneven you nigger
i don't like blurry shit and have hinting set to full.
get over it

>>59607696
Gib advice

I literally can't into visual design, so unless you can provide a solid base for me to customise off of, I'm not going to be able to come up with jack shit

>>59607761
>advice
Install stylish, get a premade theme, start customizing colors, get a new idea, search the web about the topic, repeat.

>>59607737
snap package is what your average installer is for Windows.

I doubt it will ever replace package managers because it's space and resource inefficient but will be used for convenience for large graphical applications like productivity software, videogames so on and so forth.

>install package with apt
>comes with 50 other shits
>purge package with apt
>purges a fraction of the 50 shits that it came with

bravo aptitude

>>59607806
Use pacamn nesxt time.

>>59607806
apt != aptitute
also learn2rtfm

>>59607761
Install 4chanX and Oneechan.

>>59607814
>pacman
I heard it recently got package signing - neat. :^)

>>59607838
>recently
it's old

>>59606329
arch and gentoo are really the only things that will work as """normal""" without systemd.. just because you're going to be fixing it half your day whether or not you have systemd

>>59607838
bout 5 years ago

Will this systemd autism ever end?
It's horribly annoying. Holy shit.

>>59607716
Define "failed"

If you actually went and got a U, then consider a liberal arts degree followed by opening your own coffee shop in some back street

Otherwise, can you into logic? By that I mean formal logic. Google "propositional logic" and see if you can make sense of it.
>wtf is this shit
Nope, don't even try
>you spend hours trying to understand it
You could possibly learn programming by rote, but you'd be a shit-tier script monkey and in the current day and age that's unfortunately not really enough for employment. Do yourself a favour and try something you actually enjoy doing and are good at.
>you kinda get it, it's starting to speak to you
You'll never need to solve a differential equation or integrate a volume of rotation or solve a quadratic trigonometric equation, unless you're programming a physics simulation or something. If you can get into discrete mathematics, you might have a chance.

If you are getting the hang of logic, try looking at something like deterministic and non-deterministic finite automata. Just look up material online. If this also seems like it makes sense to you, congratulations, you suck at "continuous" maths but you are alright at discrete maths, give programming a try.

>>59607806
>>purge package with apt
>>purges a fraction of the 50 shits that it came with
no fucking wonder it didn't work, apt doesn't have a "purge" functionality and even then apt-get's purge removes configuration files not dependencies

>>59607803
>resource inefficient
In what way? Not every app has to be self-contained, and if I'm not mistaken they're not by default.

>>59607806
--purge

I`m starting to use linux now, would Linux Mint be a good choice of distro?
I'm choosing it because is the OS used by my Uni

>>59607947
You need a new school

>>59607947
>Mint
Easy for a beginner.
>>59607947
>OS used by my Uni
Good idea to stick with the OS of your UNI if you're a beginner.

>>59607903
When Debian let me choose which init I want, but good luck with that.

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>>59607904
appreciate the advice anon.
the 'failing' was a D grade, like 9 marks ish iirc off a C.
please take this pepe as a token

>>59607958
care to elaborate?

>>59607935
>Not every app has to be self-contained, and if I'm not mistaken they're not by default.
Then what's the point other than yet-another-attempt-at-standardizing-linux-package-management-that-will-result-in-yet-another-os-with-unique-package-management-not-used-by-anyone-else?

>>59607990
Mint is a peice of shit and is the most insecure distro you can possibly pick

>>59608001
still 100 times better than wendys

>>59607992
Isolation/sandboxing and not having to downgrade a library just because an app doesn't support the latest version is the advantages that I can think of right now.

>>59608051
>Isolation/sandboxing and not having to downgrade a library just because an app doesn't support the latest version is the advantages that I can think of right now.
That's advantages of a self-contained package.

I asked you about the point of using snap for non-self contained packages

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>>59606736
>ifconfig eth0 up
>dhclient eth0

>>59607792
Post one

>>59607486
>>59605944
YEEEES!!!
I've disabled the "fast startup" in windows, I can now finally write/delete on my ntfs with my debian!
Thank you.

I'm looking for a distro that is lightweight, and that works really well on older hardware (like say a thinkpad x60 tablet with 1400x1050 resolution, 2gb of ram, 256gb ssd, and an Intel core dual yonah l2400 LV 1.66 ghz. Nothing too hard, nothing really too ugly, and nothing Ubuntu either. Maybe something a little more customizable in terms of appearance.

how to get around the copyright block on youtube with youtube-dl

>ask linus on g+ why he doesn't rewrite the kernel in c++ or rust
>no response
>suggest linus rewrites the kernel in rust, or else
>get blocked
What's his problem?

>>59608117
At least he will not reinstall the whole system. Hope he will read you.

>>59608205

Every distribution can be lightweight and every distribution can work the same on all hardware.
Retards pick their distribution based on hardware.

>>59608205
Arch

>>59608233
Are you trolling? In any case, STFU.

>>59608245
No. Ubuntu does not work on non PAE CPU.

>>59608245
Not true in regards to kernel bloat. Arch, for example, is very bloated with every module under the sun, while Debian isn't.

>>59608205
Bunselabs.

>>59608269

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE

>>59608284

>every module
Do you even know how modules work, retard? Do you understand the concept of modules? Kill yourself.

One comfort issue solved today onto the next, currently I have to run my file manager as sudo for write permissions on a mounted USB drive.

I'm using udisks2 and it auto-mounts drives to /run/media/username/drivename

What's the best way for me to automatically get user write permissions? Change the mount directory to /home/? take permission of the directory with chmod?

I was under the impression changing the directory was inelegant and taking permissions of the directory would require me to do it for every different drive name

>>59608310
use spacefm

>>59608310

You fucked something up. You do not have to run your file manager as root (you don't run things as sudo, it's a command to temporarily switch to the root user).
I am willing to bet that you fucked the permissions up by running it as root, or your drive is formatted in ext4 and you didn't set the proper permissions for it.

>>59608245
I spy a retard.

>>59608306
>https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2015-July/039443.html
>Arch has *never* been minimalist... a Linux kernel with every module available and every feature enabled
Shut the fuck up, you retard. Arch users like you are illiterate retards who don't value freedom and Unix philosophy; literally akin to Windows users who enjoy getting fucked over by anti-user practices out of their sheer ignorance.

>>59608306
>https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE
They rely on a non ubuntu dvd for non PAE. Please, be serious.

>>59608374
Yeah I know sudo gives you root permissions that's actually what I meant my bad, it wouldn't surprise me if something is fucked up I just need to figure out what it is

>>59608306
obviously you don't know how shit works
also not only the kernel is bloated, also the packages (the few ehich arch provides, unless you cuck yourself into the insecure community repo)

>>59608394

Modules get loaded on demand, idiot. That's what they are, modules.

>unix philosophy
Says the guy using a modern web browser. Kill yourself with your hypocrisy and buzzphrases.

>>59608435
they are still there, retard
"""lightweight""", right?

>>59608441
>>59608435
>>59608394
>>59608306
Guys, guys, guys, FRIENDLY gnu/linux thread.

>>59608310
What filesystem is the USB formatted with? Ext4 needs user permissions to write.
>chmod
No, use

# chown your_user /path/to/mounted/directory

>>59608424

Yes, the 500MB on saved space assuming he installs 2000 packages are surely going to impact his performance.
Same as with the slightly different compile time options for software. Wow, it will run 0,002% faster in 0,02% cases! Amazing speed improvement! Totally worth picking your distribution based on meaningless buzzpwords like "lightweight".

>>59608441

Goodness gracious, what am I going to do about the wasted 100MB of storage?
I suggest you keep killing yourself and your buzzwords.

I'm considering installing Alpine Linux on my laptop. What are the pros and cons compared to void, arch, gentoo, etc?

>>59608467
>what am I going to do about the wasted 100MB of storage?
Buy a 5TB hd for 5€.

>>59608474
>Alpine Linux
>on my laptop
You are doing it wrong.

>>59608474

If you have to ask such a question it means you don't need it and that you're a pretentious poser.

>>59608464
ntfs and vfat both have the same issue, neither are using ext4

I did see chown as an option but is there a way to do it so i don't have to take permission of every new drive I connect?

>>59608474
pro: lightweight, for small things
con: unusable as desktop os

>>59608514
USE SPACEFM
IT HANDLES THIS AUTOMATICALLY WITHOUT PERM ISSUES

>>59608467
The Arch devs are fucking you over, and you're just taking it. You don't have an argument, you're just saying you're OK with it. Pathetic. A minimal Debian install is far lighter, more customizable than Arch, and not anti-user and restricted as Arch is (as per actual Arch devs themselves, who recommend Debian over Arch), yet you still choose to use Arch instead. You're the one picking distributions on meaningless buzzwords and memes.

>>59608516
What if I only need to startx for web browsing, does that not work?

>>59608516
can't you just replace busybox with gnu stuffs?

>>59608586
that would defeat the purpose of alpine, lol

>>59608577
I want a distrib not patched by filthy code monkeys who introduce security bug in openssh. So Debian is not an acceptable choice.

>>59608579
Alpine is very rough around the edges and the documentation is lacking.
You'll be figuring out a lot of things on your own, which can be satisfying if you're into that sort of thing.

>>59608577

>more customizable
Your idiocy keeps on growing.

No, I pick distributions based on their release cycle, package manager and software policy regarding patching and licenses.

>>59608626
openSUSE minimal server install
but it has YaSt bloat, so it might not be for you

>>59608486
Why, it has acpi according to the package browser.

>>59608561
Thanks, I have spacefm and it does handle it perfectly but it just doesn't feel as comfy to use as Nemo to me, I'll try use it a bit more and get used to it

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>>59608626
So the kernel devs are also code monkeys to you, huh?
>>59608653
>I pick distributions based on their release cycle, package manager and software policy regarding patching and licenses
And yet you pick Arch.

Posted here last night about a Gentoo/UEFI. Fixed it.

For anyone having the issue with grub stating "EFI variables not supported...":

1. Ensure secure boot is off and UEFI is set to UEFI boot only. This was my issue.

2. Make sure you're using the Gentoo Live ISO, not the Gentoo Minimal ISO. God forbid Stallman mentions this in the wiki.

>>59608763
>So the kernel devs are also code monkeys to you, huh?
They're a difference with developers who made errors, and developers who failed to understand for years why they must not patch software they don't understand.

>>59608577
If you're serious about customization and minimalism of packages you have to configure and compile the software yourself.

>>59608763

Yes, I pick ARch because it caters best to my needs. You are the one who has no arguments, except for parrotting meaningless buzzwords and linking unrelated emails.
Kill yourself.

>Friendly GNU/Linux Thread

>>59608768
Alternative solution: don't use UEFI garbage.

>>59608867
grandpa, the times, go with

>>59608834
Got something to say fuckface?

>>59608921
UEFI doesn't respect your freedoms, grandson. I'm surprised that >>59608768 could even mention UEFI and Stallman together without being stricken down by the Lord.

>install screenfetch on debian stable
>it's literally fucking broken
""""""""""""""stable""""""""""""""

>>59609003
You think BIOS is better?

>>59609053
Than UEFI? Unequivocally. Was that a serious question?

>>59609043
How can a bash-script be broken?

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Please /fglt/ show me how Arch ain't minimal.

              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           996M         29M        914M        376K         53M        870M
Swap:          2.0G          0B        2.0G

>>59609061
BIOS doesn't respect your freedoms, grandpa.

>>59609087

Your RAM usage is in no way related to the "minimalism" of a distribution.
Stop being retards.

>>59609094
More than UEFI

>>59609094
LibreBoot/Coreboot > BIOS > UEFI
Study harder, grandson

>>59609106
That's the only thing that matters.

>>59609070
by being unable to fetch half of the info that it's supposed to display to you

upgrade to testing fixed it

>>59609121

Then do a minimal net installer of any distribution and don't install anything. Boot into a TTY and keep typing "free -h" while being in awe of your minimalism.

>>59609107
No, since both give you 0 software freedoms.

>>59609138
Yes show me how it's more minimal than Arch.

>>59609154
One was not built to forbid the boot of a free OS.

>>59609166
Are you mistaking UEFI with Secure Boot?

>>59609285
>UEFI with Secure Boot
No, they were born together, they're the two legs of the same goal.

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I installed Gentoo and everything is working well except it seems to me the quality of audio is lower. It sounds like lower bit rate or some kind of compression or something. I was using Ubuntu on this machine and it seemed to me the audio quality sounded better. So what could I look at to troubleshoot this?

I compiled with the intel hd drivers build in and not as modules, could this be the problem considering that all of the alsa stuff assumes that it will be a module?

>>59607501
>>59606725
In defense of Manjaro, to the people who argue that the packages are 'old' and similar arguments and anyone who may be interested in Manjaro here is a cool thing about the distribution I've never seen anyone mention that I'd like to shed some light on. It has three distinct types of software repositories:

Unstable: **the Manjaro unstable repos sync with the Arch stable repos** Using the unstable Manjaro repos is virtually the same as running Arch stable. Packages then move through the Manjaro testing repositories until they reach the stable ones.

Testing: These are used to store patched packages from the unstable repositories, as well other new software releases that are considered at least sufficiently stable. This software will be subject to further checks by developers and testers for potential bugs and/or stability issues, prior to being released to the stable repositories.

Stable: The default repos that most of the Manjaro userbase use

The "consequence" of using this model is that Manjaro's default stable repositories will be updated slightly later than Arch's, in order to accommodate the testing process. However, you can completely bypass the process by using the testing repositories instead.

-Enabling the Testing Repositories is easy too-

open up pacman-mirrors.conf with root access

gksudo gedit /etc/pacman-mirrors.conf

Once you've opened the file all you have to do is change the branch value. The 5th line reads

Branch=stable

change it to

Branch=testing

e.g.

## Branch Pacman should use (stable, testing, unstable)
Branch=testing

After saving that update the mirrorlist

sudo pacman-mirrors -g

And finally synchronize with the testing repos and update your system from them

sudo pacman -Syyu

You can convert back to the stable repos at any time with the same process. Neat huh?

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>>59609447
Damnit, that's way too big.

I'm using the linux-ck snakeoil kernel on arch, and repo-ck.com sucks ass. What's the best way to get my VPS to cache the packages for me?

>>59609545
Make your own Repo there?

>>59606329
The distros without systemd today are basically limited to Slackware, Gentoo, Pclinuxos and void. I've never tried Pclinuxos so I can't comment, by both slack and Gentoo are good in their own ways, but they're very complicated, and most people don't want to wait for stuff to compile/use slackbuilds. IMO void is the best distro for non systemd. It's easy to install, and has the best init system (runit. It's minimalist and faster than systemd). The only flaw is it has barely any users, so many packages aren't available (there are a good number of packages, but seriously, nobody's packaged fucking KDE 5?)
T. Void shill

>>59609656
If Void offered FDE during install I would adopt it in a heartbeat.
I am too lazy to set up LUKS myself

>>59609656
I've actually been considering void. How feasible/painful is it to compile stuff yourself for which there are no existing packages?

Also how exactly is slackware complicated? That's the first time I've heard that claim (granted I haven't heard that many claims about it).

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>>59609447
delet this

>>59608374
>>59608346
>>59608464
I made a mistake before by not realising it was only NTFS drives that were read only, installing ntfs-3g fixed that

fugggggggggggggg /int/ is dead moot pls fix

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>>59609979
ok

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I think my Manjaro KDE install is secretly a nazi

>>59609675
What are you, some kind of pedo? :^)

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Fresh from the meme factory.

>>59610386
Not bad.

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>>59610386

>>59610386
bretty good

When rtorrent runs for a while, it feezes and I need to kill it. Anyone got simliar experiences/knows a solution?

>>59610476
>pirating
Shooting other ships is bad.

wew, some guy posted a transmission cli thingy some threads ago, anyone knows the name? thought I bookmarked it...

>>59610511
I'm just sharing digital informations with my neighbor like a good citizen.

>>59610516

transmission-cli

>>59610527
>not recognizing the rms quote

>>59610511
>>59610527
Reminds me of a stallman speech.
>either you're a faggot for not sharing a dvd with your buddy or
>you're a criminal for sharing a dvd with your friend
>this puts you in a dilemma with no options except being a faggot or a criminal

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>>59610527

>>59610642
>demotivators
2005 is calling

>>59610560
Not that, it start with 's' or something. It's also has some sort of ncurses tui like rtorrent.

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did anyone buy shit from unixstickers ITT?
quality etc good?

>>59610758
>Buying stickers
Why?

Ok /fglt/, redpill me on void linux.
Is it worth trying?

>>59610968
It wont fill the void in your life

>>59610968
See: >>59609656
I personally am seriously considering it.

>>59610968
Void of packages

>>59610758
stickers collect viruses, germs and dirt
sticker don't have a long life
stickers make your devices sticky and dirty

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Mozilla must have retarded people working for it.
First they ruin Firefox with their "WebExtension" bullshit, and trying to make it exactly like Chrome,
and now they go and change their logo to this shit.
How can they be this autistic?
https://blog.mozilla.org/opendesign/arrival/

>>59610660
>{year} is calling
199x is calling

>>59610999
How recent are their packages compared to, say, Arch?

>>59610758
Don't be that guy with 20 stickers on your laptop, pls.

>>59611121
Don't be the guy with ANY stickers on your laptop, pls.

>>59610386
Pretty good. Nice work Anon

>>59610386
>>59610404
Under what license are these, because I'm gonna save them and redistribute them, maybe even modify them.

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>>59611052
Remember pic related?

Those were simpler times.

>>59611186
Yeah, I really like that dinosaur.

>>59611180
That's a good question. What license does RMS suggest for artwork (memes)?

>>59611216
A Creative Commons license.

>>59609836
Mostly you just build it from upstream-usually as simple as cloning the git repo and running make/make install. (Provided nobody on the void forum has made an unofficial xbps-src port, if they have it's even easier.) In my experience it has more packages than Arch's official repos, and a lot of the good AUR packages, but not as many as the whole AUR.
>>59610999
>>59611106
It's great, you really should consider it. Basically the only reason not to is if you need KDE 5. It gets packages at the same time or faster than Arch and Tumbleweed. Arch still doesn't have the newest kernel while void does. It also seems to require manual intervention a lot less often than arch.

>>59611328
You're doing good, shill. I think that's what I'm gonna end up installing.

>>59610968
Absolutely worth using
>Runit is faster than openrc and systemd (entirely seriously, booting is 2x as fast as systemd, and probably 3x as fast as openrc on my t420 with SSD.) It's easy to use and configure, and has no systemd botnet.
>Xbps is a good enough package manager, I can't really compare to much. It installs stuff about as fast as pacman, and making packages for it is very easy. That said, there are barely any mirrors for xbps (none at all in Australia so I only get packages at 1MBps).
>Enough selection of packages for me. The only thing I've ever had to make from source/upstream was mopidy.

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>>59606416
>Shit's even affecting the kernel nowadays.

Go on.

is there any place on the internet where I can read unbiased comments about system? i'm following this shit for months now and I'm still not sure what to think about systemd

>>59611470
Form your own opinions.

>>59609836
Slack is weird compared to every other distro. Basically no package manager unless you use something unofficial like slapt-get, which defeats the purpose of slackware.
>By default, a shitload of stuff is installed (10GB). Easy to do a minimal install, but getting new packages becomes painful (dependency hell)
>No multilib by default, easy to set up
>Installing new packages is mostly done through slackbuilds, an official community collection of build scripts. Otherwise you'll have to build from upstream/source.
>Old bsd scripts still used. Works pretty well.
>Missing a few popular modern system components like PAM
It's very comfy if you know what you're doing

>>59611470
systemd is good and bad, this is why people argue allday

it fixes lots of shit and makes lots of shit more easy
it may end in a red hat monopoly which a system more important than the kernel

>>59611470
It could be a botnet, courtesy of NSA/Red Hat (nobody trusts poettering or sievers.) Their employer is known for working with the us govt/dod.
It just seems a little suspicious because it keeps assimilating higher level system components, and because tons of distros use it while openrc and runit are equally usable.

>>59611532
>It could be a botnet
how so? it's free software, people are watching it

lads i need help with Freebsd.
Cant seem to fix a dns problem, thus i cant download shit because anything with packages, fail with "no address record"
local ping works.
wlan ping works
but a

ping freebsd.org

fails with "hostname lookup failure"

my resolv is:

search DOMAIN.NET
nameserver #.#.#.#
nameserver #.#.#.#
nameserver #.#.#.#

checked with network tools.
On a netif restart i also get
"unknown dhcp option 0x7d"

Im a winbaby, so tell me where im fucking up.

>>59611553
>nameserver #.#.#.#
Is that what it literally contains, or are you just censoring your DNS server details?

>>59611575
censoring.

>>59611545
While many eyes do make things more secure, it has become so complex and difficult to understand that nobody can actually tell. severe bugs can go unnoticed in much simpler software for years- what's stopping a hidden security flaw, accidental or put in by the NSA giving them access to a critical part of your whole system? It also helps red hat monopolise the whole thing

funny how people argue about systemd *maybe* being botnet, while running a kernel with proprietary blos

>>59611621
Doesn't Devuan use the same (deblobbed) kernel from Debian?

>>59606435

For anyone who wants to make the switch to OpenRC as smooth as possible try getting the Arch Linux ISO with OpenRC.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/archopenrc/files/arch-openrc/

If you already have Arch installed and want to unplug from the systemd matrix of hell, then add the OpenRC repositories to your /etc/pacman.conf from the above link.

Another Manual:

https://abchk1234.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/using-openrc-on-arch-archbang-manjaro-linux/

That references to without-systemd and systemd-free.org

The systemd scarce is also part of the bigger conspiracy (amoungst other shitty software):
"Making free and open-source software complex enough to fill it with security holes to better assist intel agencies" NSA operation ORCHESTRA.

Talk right here:

https://mirrors.dotsrc.org/fosdem/2014/Janson/Sunday/NSA_operation_ORCHESTRA_Annual_Status_Report.webm

>>59611665
>Arch Linux
why would anyone run that?

>>59611665
>basically objective proof that systemd is an NSA op

Nice, /pol/ was right again or whatever.

>>59611621
I use Linux-libre. Nice try.

>>59611470
What does it tell you when there are tons of horror stories (coming from very intelligent software engineers and even fucking _kernel developers_, not just regular users) saying that systemd is too complex for them to figure out, and that they end up taking shortcuts or using hacks to make things work because they simply cannot figure out how to deal with systemD?

This article sums it up the best in my opinion:
http://www.ocsmag.com/2016/10/19/systemd-progress-through-complexity/
>Systemd is a technology designed to make development easy, not necessarily the end usage.

One thing that should honestly be a HUGE red flag but yet most people seem to overlook it, is the fact itself of the debate on systemd being as big as it is.
I understand that new users are trying to read up on these issues and weighing both sides, but before even diving in if you were more experienced with GNU/Linux one question would really stand out to you above all others before even doing any research.
and that question is: there are literally hundreds if not thousands of holy wars that exist in open source communities, yet why do none of them reach the level systemd has? Why is it that I have a choice of distro, window environment, desktop manager, editors, cron daemon, file system, bootloader, logger, etc.. all of which have equally polarized opinionated people.
Yet for some reason when it comes to choice of init system we are increasingly becoming shit out of luck. Ask yourself why that is while you look things up about systemD.

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>>59608787

nice thoughts

>>59611956
see >>59608948

>>59611820
My brain problem currently is the "FORCE" thing. People argue that systemd is forcing itself into every distro and makes programs hard-depending on it, but on the other hand, what if distro devs just like systemd and adopt it out of convenience? People somehow blame a popular program for being popular and transform being popular into "forcefully raping the community", resulting in "Init Freedom" feminists. Isn't it, at the end, free software which exists to make people happy?

>>59612053
>which exists to make people happy
Well it's not doing a good job of that now is it? :*)

>>59612091
>posts the smiley with a snowflake nose

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>>59612118
Fuck my fat fingers

Here's pic related to make up for it, it's fancy

Is there a way to add uefi boot to a linux install setup with legacy boot?

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>>59612053
You're thinking of it historically backwards. SystemD isn't becoming so ubiquitous and difficult to get away from because distros are adopting it. Distros have been adopting it _because_ it's so hard to get away from.

Part of it comes back to that quote from the link in my post:
>Systemd is a technology designed to make development easy, not necessarily the end usage.
Which is the simplest explanation, and similar to what you were saying (just that it's software developers not distro maintainers who are choosing systemD)
However that's not something we necessarily should accept as end users. The reason GNU/Linux is so great is because of how simple the system really is under the hood and how you can hack things together and tinker with it. SystemD has a very Microsoft feel, it thinks it knows what you want better than you do and makes it extremely difficult for anyone to do something even slightly against the grain (or if their system has an unusual error systemd will be their worst nightmare trying to diagnose).
Honestly as time goes on it's looking more and more to me like systemd really ONLY is the way it is as an attempt to monopolize shit between a certain circle of developers. It's not being developed with your best interests in mind.

But also while you're figuring things out, why don't you try asking "what's right with systemD" instead of "what's wrong with systemD"?

I'm betting 95% of users wouldn't even know the difference. Hell, I even ran webservers with systemd and also even off of Gentoo with OpenRC and it made almost no difference at all. I guess the big improvement systemd has is restarting services automatically. But does that honestly need systemd to be as bloated and all-encompasing as it is?

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>>59612141
Forgot to add multiframes so it doesn't spin. ;_;

>>59612184
use a thumb drive for boot, if your system supports

>>59612248
>thumb drive
dude what

>>59612184
change your bios settings m8.
you should not have to modify anything in the image.

>>59612053
>>59612237
Oh also, I should have mentioned this

When I asked you to consider why systemd is so hard to get away from that's not so much a question of choice
It's a question of "what the fuck are the systemd developers doing that's making so much shit depend on them?"

Does it make sense to you that a simple init system (software to just fucking start running other software like daemons, and possibly just restart them when something crashes) should be something that can't be swapped out for something else? Why is it so complex? Why do fucking network managers and login daemons depend on systemd and no other init system?

I'm sorry, but there is no explanation other than poor programming practices, or even possibly malicious intention to rope everyone into depending on the same circle of applications removing our freedom to choose (and even understand) the different components of our systems.

>>59612290
On a normal computer yeah, problem is this is a chromebook that had ubuntu with legacy boot, and I flashed the uefi rom without thinking it through.
From what I can tell, there's no way I can get legacy boot back.

>error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies)
>:: vapoursynth: installing libass (0.13.6-1) breaks dependency 'libass.so=5-64'
help pls

>>59612832
RIP

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How do I rice using a more readily available grain substitute? also is there a gluten free variation?

Is bitwig worth getting or should i just emulate ableton live. Also what tracker would you guys reccomend. Really wanting to make the move to a non commercial os and want to keep producing tunes and using my midi hard ware

>>59609444
Just thought I'd report back that I noticed that only vlc had bad audio quality and other programs worked fine and I found what my problem was is that I didnt use the right USE flags for vlc

I'm trying to change the system-wide language in Ubuntu, but it's greyed out. I deleted all other languages and it's still not working. Not grey, but the language is English still.

Any ideas?

>>59612832
pls rspndo

>>59612237
>big improvement is being supervisors
>not getting rid of the horrifying clusterfuck that was sysinit script ordering, dependency groups, etc

systemd is being adopted because the other systems are terrible. Their flaws became really evident once people tried to really parallelize them, use them for more complex tasks than "source a huge function library, write 50 lines of garbage boilerplate", etc

Want your service to only start (or restart itself) if a file or mount is present or changed? Done. Network interface? Done. Per-user services? Done. You may not like systemd, but it solves real problems which there were no good alternatives for

>>59611532
Tippest toppest kek. Almost every open source package has a Red Hat employee as one of the project leads or maintainers. "Red Hat is manipulating Linux" is pure tin foil hattery. Read the changelog of the software you use. Virtually guarantee you see @fedora.org or @redhat.com emails

>>59615164
>You may not like systemd, but it solves real problems which there were no good alternatives for
It's a bandaid over the top of everything. It's not improvement.

Pottering did the same shit with pulseaudio. Sure it works nicely but honestly GNU/Linux audio was always a fucking trainwreck. He didn't fix the problems he just threw a blanket on top that gives the end user the output they're expecting without actually cleaning up or improving what lies beneath.

systemd is the same thing. He's not actually solving the problems.
I mean, maybe the guy actually is completely sincere and there is nothing to worry about (although I doubt it), but even so the fact that systemd has to consume every fucking aspect of GNU/Linux OSes just to initialize programs properly should be telling us that things are very very fucked up under the hood.
We should be solving those problems, not creating monolithic monstrosities that not even kernel developers can understand just to initialize software.

Then again, there's the fact that those benefits do not affect average users. I'm all for throwing awesome new technology at newbies even if they don't need it, but systemd is not such a technology. They don't need it, but also it does in fact get in their way, since when their systems break and they go to IRC or forums they are basically on their own since they probably can't even fucking open the log files to read and post what error they're even getting in the first place. and if by some miracle they can, the odds still are that nobody is going to have the slightest clue on how to help them.

>>59615188
Ok I'll bite
>Void Linux
The list of red hat shit I use is basically limited to btrfs, their contributions to the kernel, and udev. Plus, systemd is a massive single potential point of failure, and using it is unnecessary- even if I use other red hat software, why not escape it?

>>59615283
That are some pretty heavy assumptions you have there in that last paragraph.

>>59615345
The average user doesn't even know what an init system is.

>>59615164
>Systemd is superior to sysv
This is objectively true.
>Systemd is superior to openrc and runit
This isn't true at all. Sure, when the debian bullshit happened openrc was a poor choice in comparison, but today openrc is very good, and runit is technically both superior and simpler to systemd, because it doesn't insist on doing more than it needs to. Literally no reason to use systemd over runit.

>>59615355
How is he troubled by it then?

>>59615395
How does it benefit him?

>>59615412
It starts his system? How could that be possibly beneficial to him?
Your avarage user doesn't care about how it works.

>>59615424
Sorry I can't tell, is your post about systemd or every other init system that ever existed?

>>59615428
Doesn't matter since your average user doesn't even know what an init system is, he won't even get any e-peen from using an exotic one.
Your average users best choice is to go with the distro standard, which most likely will be systemd.

>>59615283
remember binary logs

>>59608504
be friendly, anon.

>>59615458
and when they try to experiment and change things and run into a problem which will eventually happen it will be a nightmare for them

>>59615355
Linux users tend to not be average users.

>>59615340
Read changelogs. There is a 0% chance this statement is true. Canonical has about 200 engineers. Red Hat, IBM, and Google drive the industry, and almost every package


>>59615283

Poettering is a dick, but he's earnest. Pulse is undeniably better than alsa or jack (both of which got railed on because OSS should have been good enough for everyone).

Runit and openrc are not serious competitors to systemd. Systemd+dracut abstract all the horrible shit which makes Linux really work. cgroups and namespaces in runit are unapproachable, to start with.

The UNIX philosophy has been dead for years. Making a modern system requires vision, not herding ants into something which sort-of works as long as you can wrangle 500 random FIFOs, shm pages, idiotic daemons to handle crashtastic services, hacky per-distro ways to restart services when nice change. Udev got slammed. Hotplug and coldplug were much worse. Systemd gets slammed, and it is kind of a monolith (albeit one made of individual pieces which are kind of inseparable).

Poettering wants to modernize Linux. Nobody else does. Except developers. Who like it. Go figure.

Users and admins hate change and always have. They always lose. Want an alternative? Write one. A real one one

>>59615497
They are incredibly average. The "average" Linux admin still can't tell you what happens during initramfs handover, God forbid you ask a user.

>>59615458
This doesn't make any sense. SystemD was the exotic e-peen at one point.

Whether something is exotic or e-peen is 100% irrelevant to whether we should adopt it or not, or whether we should give it to new users or not. The point is they don't care, and you clearly agree on that point.
That doesn't mean we just throw our hands up and say "lol just use whatevers popular" or we'd be telling them all to go back to Windows.

It's our responsibility to not load them up with bloated shit that doesn't improve their experience even 1 little bit over the previous standards. Apply all your logic to the situation before systemd was adopted and you'll realize how little sense you're making.

>>59615494
When they start doing that they stop being your average user.

>>59615544
and yet they still won't have a damn clue how to fix a systemd problem. Just like literally everyone else in the world except systemd developers.

>>59615518
Like I said, they should stick with the distro standard. Back then when systemd was exotic they should not have switched to it. The advantage of using what's popular is that if they have problems, it's more likely someone else had the problem too and a fix was found already.

>>59615561
Someone who doesn't know what an init system is won't be able to solve any init-system related problem.

>>59615518
>An init system which actually keeps track of everything instead of leaving shit hanging when you log out of gnome, shitty laptop suspend support, and adding extra daemons for when your other daemons need a restart
>Bloat

It's clear that you're incapable of acknowledging the things systemd does do well, so can you just focus on the negatives?

journald is idiotic compared to syslog. Perceived advantages (ease of log shipping) don't matter to most people, and the ones who care are already using rsyslog

Excessive parallelization makes tracking down startup problems a nightmare, even with the rescue target.

.mount targets are obnoxious and incredibly confusing for users trying to make NFS automounting work well.

/run. In general.

>Xorg -query server
>Unsupported printf directive "*"
Excuse me? Google only brings up bugtrackers.

>>59615501
>Pulse is undeniably better than alsa or jack
Funny that you still have ALSA even if you have pulse isnt' it? Hence what I was talking about by pulseaudio being a bandaid, not an actual solution.

>The UNIX philosophy has been dead for years
Also funny that the unix philosophy is literally what is enabling systemd to do what it's doing in the first place.

If past software had been developed even remotely like systemd is then it would be impossible to replace vital system components like init systems these days. But yet before systemd came along no software gave a shit what init system you ran.

It's not dead, it's dying, and people like you are enabling it by siding with it.
and for what? Systemd doesn't actually do anything that wasn't already possible (with tools that do follow the unix philosophy), systemd's widespread adoption is nothing more than marketing and having money to back them.

Just found this quote from the systemD developer Pottering himself

>The Linux community is dominated by western, white, straight, males in their 30s and 40s these days, I perfectly fit in that pattern, and the rubbish they pour over me is awful. I can only imagine that it is much worse for members of minorities, or people from different cultural backgrounds, in particular ones where losing face is a major issue.

If that's not enough to convince you of what kind of people are developing systemd and their level of competence then I don't know what is.

>>59616559
Also note that this was not in response to anything about discrimination or minorities. That was just his response to the general negative attitude he's received for his projects.
Just brings in minorities and SJW crap from out of nowhere as an argument

>>59616559
>>59616599
Thanks guys
Between this and all the garbage earlier in the thread I'm now redpilled on systemd. What distro should I use? I am pretty experienced with arch, but I hate its incompetent developers and systemd. please only suggest stuff that defaults to alternatives to systemd.

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GNU Thread
>>59616662
>>59616662
>>59616662
>>59616662
>>59616662
>>59616662

>>59616627
gentoo

>>59606100
scratching my head. why should i use linux?

looks cool but seems contrarian. im already a strange man with my seiko snk809, lenovo zuk z2 and a fountain pen user.

NEED off this ride

>>59617749
ask in the new thread >>59616683

>>59616627
I'm in the same boat as you and I'm probably gonna end up going with Void.

>>59612832
Could you be more precise?

>>59619349
no

>>59619479
why?

>>59619495
do not want

>>59619542
well then ...

Good thread.

What is systemd and why do people hate it?