/pcbg/ - PC Building General - "It's just like LEGOs"

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Ayyy, who's already got Ryzen and got 3000mhz+ memory running? I bought 2400 but it turns out parts of the cpu are tied to memory clock. Using an ASUS Prime X370-Pro

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ3SFB3/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

need to know if the evga g3 1000 psu is good or not.

>>59567051
I have the 850 version, seems fine.

>>59566653
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

Will be a 1600/x r5

>>59567051
I have a rock solid g1 650, go for it

Friendly reminder to never buy pascal. it's locked the FUCK down.

980ti 1600mhz

>>59567027
I'll never understand why people buy shit ram. I made the mistake because I was ignorant. New ram klit lifted my minimums significantly in all of my games.

Just bought a 7600k for my first build, how fucked am I considering ryzen 5 might be good.

>>59567205
I make bad decisions and got Ryzen on the Friday after launch. 2400 was the fastest the store had on the provided HCL. Didn't think much of it

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>>59567255
Marginally at worst
>>59567377
I can respect that. buy your new kit then sell those. RAM has strong resale value, only reason I upgraded but if I knew the uplift was this great in my primary game I would have done it regardless of cost.

Should I push pull two lower RPM fans or just push one higher RPM fan?

Whats the next Intel generation?
Cannonlake or Coffeelake?
Looking to upgrade cpu on the first months of 2018

>>59567555
>Due to low 10 nm yields, Cannon Lake will be limited to 15 Watt U and 5 Watt Y-series system-on-chip parts with GT2. Higher-power mobile and desktop platforms will receive an update in the form of a second 14 nm process refinement with Coffee Lake, which is said to share Cannon Lake's architectural refinements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannonlake

>>59566653
>>Note: Win7 and 8.1 cannot be installed on a 200 series chipset
What does this mean?

>>59567605
It's bullshit, I installed windows 7 on a b250 mobo with a skylake cpu.

>>59567598
Thanks anon I wasnt sure about those 2

I looked on the Coffeelake wiki page but doesnt mention anything about socket or chipset

I can assume that bcs is a refinement of Sky and Kaby will use the same socket just diferent chipset right?

>>59567662
It's up in the air at this point but intel likes to change socket every two generations so wait.

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reposting from /v/:
>>371694564
>>371695247

also should i upgrade my ram or its fine as it is?

>>59568005
>post not found

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>>59568005
oh thread died
>im looking to upgrade my cpu what would you recommend me?
>anon recommends 7700k and overclocking it
>how hard is it to overclock it?
it says this cpu comes without a cooler would my old cooler will be enough consider it handles my current cpu?
also would going down a little on the price bracket say to i5 7600k would be noticeably different?
want to know if its really worth spending the extra shekels.

>>59568005
>>59568015
That's not how you crossboard link you newfaggot

>>59568025
never had the need to crossboard link but whatever can you answer my question?

>>59568037
I don't know since I can't see the post retard

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>>59568048
its literally here in this thread you double nigger

>>59568055
Then delete the post and ask properly.

>>59567177
gtx 1070 at 2.1ghz

get fucked

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Can I build a PC out of Legos? What specs do I need to run Minecraft as good as possible? I also want to do some video editing/content creation (turning sonichu comics into videos).

If the GPU connected to the PSU causes the PC to fail to POST, but it boots just fine if the GPU is connected to the motherboard and not plugged into the PSU (and plugging the monitor into the GPU slot even works), is it the GPU that's faulty or the PSU?

pic in op would be true if the left one was one of those programmable robot sets desu

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What's up /g/?

General build check:
I'm planning on building a nas-box (freenas) for use at home. Here are the components I'm currently planning to use:

Case: SilverStone DS380 (holds up to 8 drives, 3.5")
PSU: SilverStone SFX SX600-G 600W

Motherboard & CPU: Supermicro A1SRi-2758F
Memory: Kingston ValueRAM SO-DIMM DDR3L PC12800/1600MHz ECC CL11 8GB (x2, =16 GB)

USB-sticks (for boot): SanDisk USB Cruzer Fit 16GB (x2, mirror)
Hard drives: I will use WD Red and/or HGST Deskstar Nas.


The component I thought was the hardest to select was the PSU, with regards to being able to determine that it would offer the required amount of connectors.
This PSU SX600-G has four sata connectors. Does each sata power-cable have two connectors on them (i.e. one cable can power two sata harddrives)? Will it be able to power eight hard disks?
Silverstone makes both the case and the PSU so it would seem natural that their stuff go together.

Links:
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=452
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=524

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Atom/X10/A1SRi-2758F.cfm
http://www.kingston.com/us/memory/search/?partid=KVR16LSE11/8

https://www.sandisk.com/home/usb-flash/cruzer-fit

I'm looking for a 27" 1440p monitor. I looked a bit online and I'm between the Acer K272HUL or the Dell U2715H. Is the Dell worth the extra money?

Allright, a business near me is selling their old Dell Precision towers, and they go for dirt cheap. I have a choice of t3500, t3600, t5400 and t7500, all with 12 year warranty and in the price range of sub $200. Which one is the best one to just take it, slap some consumer gpu on it and have a decent setup?

>>59568751
I very much doubt it especially as newegg has a price differential of like $400. Frequently competing monitor manufacturers will buy panels from the same panel makers. I bet they are the same so I'd go for the cheaper Acer

I have a question too. I currently am working on getting some extra Mhz out of my i5 4690k because upgrading to an i7 costs a lot and I don't quite need the hyper threading yet, though my next cpu will be an i7 unless Ryzen 5 series blows intel out of the water. Anyways, I currently am running at 4.6 Ghz at 1.265 cvore on an msi Z97A gaming 7 mobo for what its worth. I've heard some people say that the max safe voltage for this chip - i5 4690k - is 1.25 volts. However a guide I found here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

which seems pretty well informed claims 1.3 volts is the safe upper limit. What do you guys think?

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Is the
MSI Z270 PC MATE LGA 1151 ATX Motherboard suitable for a gaming build with an i5 3570k and a gtx 1070? I don't really know anything about motherboards but I'll probably upgrade to an i5 7600k eventually. maybe.
Was also looking at the
MSI Z270 GAMING PRO CARBON just for the sheer ridiculousness of an RGB motherboard but it's not really necessary...

Any suggestions?
1080p, 60Hz, Gaming

MOBO: GIGABYTE B250-D3H (82€)
CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 (216€)
HFS: Noctua NH-U12S (62€)
GPU: MSI GTX 1060 6G (290€)
SSD: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB (115€)
RAM: Corsair 16GB DDR4 2400MHz CL14 LPX (134€)
TOTAL 899€

>>59568970
no, seems reasonable for 1080p. idk what the price difference is for you between the 1060 and rx480. from what I gather the rx480 is at least a little bit better than the 1060. overall I wouldn't really change anything
>>59568934
I really don't think the 3570k is compatible with your mobo

I have a 1070 and I'm shopping around for a monitor. Should I go for the 1080p 144hz meme or should I just stuck to 1440p?

>>59569041
That really depends on whether you prefer high resolution or high refresh rate. One isn't any better than the other, really

>>59569059
I only have experience with 1080p 60hz so I couldn't say

>>59569065
High refresh rate isn't something you will notice very much until you play a console. Then you may never go back to 60hz and below. High resolution is really nice if you sit very close to you monitor. It also reduces the need for anti aliasing

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want to upgrade GPU mostly (just want to play Nier at 60+ FPS)

recommend me build upgrades

>>59569123
Do you need to be told to get a 1070? Do you need to be told that if that's not enough for you, to step up to a 1080?

>>59569129
I really haven't shopped for PC parts in years. I haven't kept up with trends. Why do you think I'm asking sir

>>59568076
You'll need at least 2 Titans in SLI and about 128GB of RAM, each clocked at 4166MHz. Of course an i7-7700k is required at minimum.

I cannot for the life of me quell vibration sounds of my case.

The sound comes from the back cover of the case, which gets vibration from the HDDs.

I've cable managed as fuck to keep any cables from touching the back cover (as far as possible), put the HDDs in different positions, but it doesn't work. What do I do?

Is GTX 980 a good buy for $280 these days? Upgrading from a dead GTX 560 Ti.

>>59569457
Gtx 1060 6gb costs less than that based off of what I'm looking at right now on amazon.

>>59569508
I live in a shithole and GTX 1060 is $340 around here. Plus GTX 980 is better in performance than 1060.

>>59569449

Buy some sound dampening insulation and fit it. Its the sort of stuff the Define R5 comes with preinstalled. Also: mount everything on rubber.

Also: it could possible be air turbulence depending on your fan setup - if I set my side fan to intake rather than exhaust the sound is horrible.

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Any ideas on a case for a NAS with two of pic related (so 6 or more 5.25 bays) that doesn't look autistic with shitty edgy shapes and lights everywhere?
I just want a plain old boring looking case with lots of external 5.25 bays.

Is it worth upgrading an i5-4690 yet or should I just upgrade my GPU (GTX 960) first? Encoding is mostly done on my AMD box, so this is just for general use and games.

I wish LEGO taught me cable management.

>>59569674
cable management is a meme. unless you have a birds nest of wires, the super neat cable management that the PC community loves to tout is unnecessary and won't change your temps by even 1C.

>>59567027

I want to buy the 1700 as well, but after looking up the supported 3200 Ram, i decided to wait.

even ASRock, MSI and Gigabyte which are considered decent only support like 2-3 types of 3200 Ram.

When will they get their shit together?

>>59568934
>Intel
>2017
dont make this mistake

>>59569457
Old nvidia gpus are never a good idea

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>>59568071
Every single gtx 1070 hits 2.1ghz. I bet you spent more on a model with a gimmick extra power connector and 1337 power phases.

Anyway, trolling and baitposting aside I understand the need to not spend money on a generation old GPU but the ability to mod the bios was extremely important to sate my autistic fervor. I picked up a fucking MINT evga 980ti hybrid for $340 shipped. I spent about an hour on it last night and got it to pic related. I think it's a good spot for 24/7 but I'll spend more time with it.

As it stands it's with in 6% of a stock 1080. Anyone looking at a 1070 could consider a used 980ti on ebay imo. Now if this were a non-hybrid 980ti it would not be worth it but the cooler on the card is worth like $100 alone.

>>59566653
why is ddr4 ram so fuggen expensive

>>59570494

Phones.

My mobo has my 7700K set to 4400mhz and 1.3 volt, pretty sure it shouldn't be as high.

How much volt do I need to input for it to stay at base clock? 1.25 or so?

Quandary with build.
I am considering upgrading my current build:
CPU - i5 3570k
GPU - Radeon 7870 2gb
RAM - 16 @ ddr3 1600

To the following:
CPU - i5 7500
GPU - GTX 1070 8gb
RAM - 16 @ ddr4 2400

The reason for the build is:
1 - improved GPU to ensure high quality gaming on new releases
2 - It is an excuse to upgrade to m.2 ssd with more storage; I currently have 160gb ssd which is not sufficient.

My plan is to make a new build, the older machine would be given away to a friend with low computer usage. Result is nothing recycled.

However, instead of dropping ~1500-1800 on a new build, I am looking into buying a new SSD to add a new drive (say, 250gb and put games on it, leave 160gb for primary / other media) and upgrade GPU to GTX 1060 6gb.

Thoughts?

What's a good secondary streaming/record PC build? It's for personal recording not really for YouTube or twitch.

>>59570673

I'd rather have the 6c/12t ryzen chip over a 7500.

>>59570813
But the principle is the same: upgrade to new build, or swap out parts to get more life out of current machine.

>>59570831

The first step when considering a new build is to always overclock what you can of your existing hardware to see if it gives a satisfactory experience. While I doubt the poor little 7870 is going to cut the mustard these days pushing your 3570k to its limit can yeild some nice gains.

>>59570874
Will I need a new cooler if I want to overclock my RAM from 2GB to 8GB?

>>59570673
Don't upgrade the i5 to an i5, that's retarded. Just upgrade the 1070 and OC

>>59571128
>>59570874
I got the -K because I am retarded, I don't intend to OC.

The computer is in all ways functional and satisfactory right now (aside from the storage issue). I am reluctant to start on a new game, such as Witcher 3 or Nier:Automata with my current GPU, however. It sounds like my plan to add an SSD and upgrade GPU is the better choice. Thank you.

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https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jN23M8
R8 or h8

There are so many variations of single GPUs such as 1060. How do you decide?
There is EVGA, STRIX, OC and many many more.

>>59571199

For the most part due to the nuances of pascal they are all the same shit - you buy the cheapest one and/or one with best warranty.

Its only chips that really respond to voltage (kepler and older and most of AMD's lineup) do the differences between brands - especially pcbs - start to matter.

Telling retarded people building computers is like legos, you're not actually teaching them anything.

Why do you think there are "gaming" parts for ignorant users? I guess that 1200 platinum psu is really necessary for that ITX mobo huh

Is 4k gaming a meme? I love 4k for the workspace so I'll probably also get a 1200p monitor portrait mode just in case, will I be able to flip it and game on it? Or is it weird landscape?

>>59571304
>I guess that 1200 platinum psu is really necessary for that ITX mobo huh
enjoy your house fire faggot.

>>59566653
whats a good, horizontal case that i can place under my tv? looking to use it as a media server, so it should have a decent amount of 3.5 internal bays.

>>59571167
It won't boot, you need a B250.

i3 is in a bad spot, go either Pentium or i5-7400 if you're poor.

>>59571439
>I3-6xxx
>You need b250

No.

>>59566653
Why do people put an 's' at the end of LEGO?

>>59571491
Oh whoops.

Quick I need a build for a ryzen 5 (preferable 1600x) with a 1060 6gb, 1080p monitor, and a Corsair 200r. I don't really know what Mobo or ram to get, aside from ddr4. I also don't have any peripherals, and my budget is 800 usd.
Pls recommend me some parts

>>59571702
>and my budget is 800 usd
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/DC8rnn

what gpu is good for someone who wants to build a midranger pc for 600-700 eurobucks? Let's say I want to spend about 150 - 200 bucks on a gpu.

>>59571991
rx 480 8gb

>>59566653
Sup /g/.
Whats the best pair to rx 480 8gb?
1) 1080p 144hz
2) 1440p any refresh rate

Rightn now i cant afford 1440p 144hz. So, what better?

>>59572101
1080p 144hz.

>>59572101
neither. it can't handle either. on low settings many games 144hz FREESYNC is passable, though

>>59569813
am4 isn't even a month old yet...

Anyone know what price the ryzen 5 will be?

Toshiba or WD Blue for a 2tb stockage HDD?

Exactly same price for me on Amazon. Heard some bad things about those 3.5 Toshiba so I'd be inclined to order the WD Blue one.

>>59572439
149.99

I wonder should I get a new case to replace my define mini. I really want to go towards the water cooling route (double rad)in the future...

>>59568017
>how hard is it to overclock it?
Just use one of those 'one click to overclock' programs from your MB manufacturer.

>also would going down a little on the price bracket say to i5 7600k would be noticeably different?
-Google 'games 7600k vs 7700k'
-Look at benchmark of games that are relevant to you
-???
-Profit

>>59572274
>>59572112
Thanks

Retard here, is it worth buying this product for £116.99? Thinking about getting it for my next build, but I'm not sure.

"Corsair 16GB DDR4 Vengeance LPX 3000MHz"

>>59572812
Aren't there 4 different r5?

>>59573037
i got 2x 16 gig 3200 mhz sticks for 212.

you should be able to find cheaper deals but dont limit yourself to 3000 only, check 2800-3200 range.

>>59569708
But it looks cleaner.

>>59573055
its not a meme, dont listen to that retard.

>>59573053
I'm not limiting myself, it's just that it's on sale on Scan. Without the sale, it's £124.99. Not that much of a difference, but I'm a tight cunt.

>>59570494
Samsung's supply is being drained by phones and tablets, and no one has any incentive to start making consumer series ddr5 RAM. Also Samsung might be under some shit pressure right now because South Korea is a corrupt shithole.

>>59571113
If it gets in the way of the cooler's fans or heat sink then yeah. Assuming you already have 1 stick of ram in the A1 slot you should be fine.

To all of you guys building PCs for the first time. Putting together the PC is fun, but troubleshooting all the dumb bugs and issues and 'why won't this turn on' and 'why don't I have sound' and tracking down 1000 different drivers....that's not fun.

So those of you that are pricing out $1500-2000 gaming PCs that can run 3 monitors at 1440p res at 100FPS but don't like when shit doesn't work, check out the pre-built market too.

>>59571151
>I don't intend to OC.
That's fine. The K series are clocked higher than their non-K sister series so that enough is a good reason to prefer K to non-K. Also sometimes cost, since there is usually higher demand for K than non-K of the same number. Microcenter and Frys routinely sell their K variants for less than their non-K variants during sales.

>>59573037
16 gb of ram used to be about half of that price in spring of 2016, it's more than doubled since then because of phones using ddr4.

>>59573072
you should be paying around 110 at most for 16 gb ram sticks.

How is this for gaming? https://pcpartpicker.com/list/VqTW7h

>>59573106
>but troubleshooting all the dumb bugs and issues and 'why won't this turn on' and 'why don't I have sound' and tracking down 1000 different drivers....that's not fun.
I want brainlets to leave.

When is AMD going to announce the specs for the R3 series? Why won't they hurry the fuck up?

Also, what's the most reasonable price/perf RAM type for Ryzen?

>>59573621
Just get an i5. https://youtu.be/L4K7eIEAJx0

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>>59572963

>Just use one of those 'one click to overclock' programs from your MB manufacturer.

Never, EVER overclock via software or inside your OS.

>>59573106
Are you fucking retarded? The drivers come with the motherboard you stupid shit. GPU drivers can be found on nvidia or amd website. A prebuilt is fine too but they tend to cut corners.

>>59573688
You tend to cut corners.

>>59573720

How else do you set the fastest lap time?

Why is 1440p 144hz such a hot topic for gaming nowadays? Not even 1080ti's will be pushing that kind of frames in modern games

>>59573795
>t. poorfag

>>59573795
Cause they can hit 100+ I guess.

>>59573720
Some of these prebuilts cost the same as buying each individual component, you're not telling me these fuckers are giving computers away. Of course theres economies of scale, but they don't make money from a few dollars per computer, they cheap out on components. They'll get PSUs, motherboards and other components made by the lowest bidder.

>>59573884
I like cheap stuff.

>>59566653
>AND YOUR COUNTRY if outside the USA
If you live outside the glorious US of A, you are not living in a country at all.

>>59574034
Pretty sure the US will be annexed by Mexico soon.

>>59574034
I'll take not living in a country over getting lead poisoning from drinking water or going bankrupt over medical bills thank you.

>>59573494
>Dual core in the current year
Get an i5 or wait for Ryzen 5. Then get half that RAM, 32GB is overkill. Put the savings into getting yourself a PSU that isn't a fire hazard and then whatever is left over put into the CPU.

>>59570382
my gainward phoenix 1070 can only hit 1957mhz before instability.

>>59573668
>Never, EVER overclock via software or inside your OS.

Any sources why that would be bad? If it's supported by MB itself?

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>>59574408

The tl;dr is generally speaking the OS doesn't like having to share such low level access to the hardware and conflicts happen more often than you'd like. Plus such software tends to be too aggressive on the voltage which leads to other issues. One issue that can arise is the software applying a bad setting causing your OS t ocrash and upon reboot applies the setting again...causing a crash - crash loops are not fun to get out of.

Always overclock through BIOS especially since most overclocking focused boards have a quick way to reset CMOS for when things do go wrong.

>>59574408
jewish software will corrupt your cpu, always use the bios which is the white approved way.

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>case and temps are too hot
>buy an atx case for space and with top mounted fans
>put in my mATX moba
>not enough fan controllers on it to.take advantage
>all the atx mobas are over 100$
Pc is a fucking joke, I should've bought a ps4 and be done with it for half the price.

>>59573076
>>59570651
ram is getting more and more expensive because phones start using more ram? well fuck.

>>59574902

>be retarded
>blames others

You are right, you should stick to consoles.

>>59574981
Smart phones where a mistake

would I get a noticeable performance boost if I upgraded from a 2GB 950 to a 4GB 1050 Ti?

>>59575015
Yes.

>>59575015
Nigga just google some benchmarks yourself

But regardless, upgrading to the same tier of one newer generation is generally a very bad way to spend your money

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Got this build 4.5 yrs ago, and just a day ago the gpu died. I havnt really looked at parts in a long time, so I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a couple cards in the $200-250 range. I mainly use this rig for gaming. Thanks.

>>59575065
1050 ti.

>>59575065
1060

>>59575065
>>59575094
edit: also try the baking method to try and get the gpu to work.

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Redpill me on case fans.

My fans of four months just died and I want something high quality to replace them, that is relatively silent and pushed a shitload of air.

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Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.

The LAN port on my motherboard stopped working, so I'm trying to buy another one. I tried looking up what looks like an item number on the back, which is "DG2 M4TV3 0702" but no results came up. When I look at Amazon for "Lan Ports" I get a bunch of USB crap instead of parts that connect to the motherboard. Where should I be looking for a replacement part? I can't into computer very well.

Is the 1070 worth getting yet

>>59575108

> relatively silent and pushed a shitload of air

You don't get both silence and high airflow anon. If you can tame such beasts i'm a fan of 38mm thick fans - they are usually high power delta (and other such companies) monsters that can be tamed with pwm.

>>59575105
>>59575100

Alright thanks, any radeon cards worth looking at?

>>59575176
rx 470.

>>59575176
Unless you want a shitty experience, no.

>>59575142
It really is!
>>59575143
Ok, then scratch the silence. Can you recommend me something powerful, preferably 140mm?

>>59575197

Those EK vardar fans seem to review well. Noctua make some high rpm 140mm fans. If you are insane you could try something akin to the silverstone FHP141.

Reminds me when - for laughs - I bolted a 3900rpm 3A delta fan to my silver arrow and let it run at 100% to cool my 8320e clocked to 4.7ghz. It shaved 10c off torture load temps and if it wasn't for the motherboard being just shy of melting I would've clocked it even further. If I can be fucked i'll bolt it to my shiny new 1700 and see if that makes any difference (it won't in practical terms). Sound was deafening though.

>>59566653
Is the TX black atx mini good?

I want to build a pc with a msi b250, rx470 and g4560 and the case is the only things that's not decided yet.

what's the best graphics card i can get on ebay for like $50?

>>59574902
>>not enough fan controllers on it to.take advantage
I spent a few hours deciding on my mobo instead of just picking the cheapest on pcpartpicker.

Wow! All of my fans worked when I build it! Magic right? Retard.

>>59575331
Maybe try to get a GTX 660 Ti or something.

>>59575113
A USB ethernet port like you found is probably your best solution. You don't need to replace the entire motherboard, and I doubt you're going to replace just the port considering you can't into computer very well.

>>59575563
I can into computer like replacing graphics cards and power supplies, so that I can figure out.

>>59575578
Choose one you like, USB or PCIe, whatever you prefer.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/wired-network-card/

>>59575605
Thank you my friend

should i buy this and throw a ~$50 660ti in it for my 10 year old cousin to play games on or could the money be better spent on a different build?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-7010-Tower-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3-20GHz-500GB-D09M-NO-OS-/152475694509?hash=item23804275ad:g:maoAAOSwSlBYzAnd#viTabs_0

>>59575065
RX470 or RX480, there really isn't anything else in that pricerange.

>>59575191
t. retard

>>59574902
Yes, stick to consoles since you're too stupid for PCs.

>>59567598
>Due to low 10 nm yields

Noob here.. are they talking about how many components survived manufacturing intact?

Low yield = what? 40 out of 100?

>>59573494
Horrible what are you planning on playing? 1060 with struggle on newer games at 1440p

>>59576220
They don't typically release that information, IIRC, lest they becomes /g/ meme immortal like 1.7% yields nVidia.

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Recycling my current power supply, SSD and HDD. Came into a bit of money so budget isn't a huge deal.

File: q354hw45h.jpg (53KB, 588x577px) Image search: [Google]

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I have a 6600k and a msi m5 mobo right now, but I'm going to be giving it to my brother as a graduation present.
This is what I plan to replace it with. I just got the 1080 yesterday.

>>59576290

If you're going to overclock that 7700k to its limit get a better cooler. There is a reason why a few of the huge dual tower air coolers are praised - they are as good as most AIO units.

>>59575331
none, save your money.

>>59576364
you overpaid on nearly everything.

>>59576364

There is only one /g/ approved case and thats not it.

>>59576401
I've only bought the 1080.
But, money doesn't matter to me. I make more than I need.

>>59576427

Then why not a titan?

>>59576391
i just want something my 10 year old cousin can play games on at 768p

>>59576388
Thanks! I don't plan on overclocking, but would I still have temp issues or is there a better non-watercooling solution you'd recommend? I'm hesitant to watercool cause I'm not experience with it but I could learn if need be.

>>59576473
Look on local ads for used cards, I've been looking for a while but it seems most people ask too much.
>50$ for a 10 year old gts
>100$ for a 500, 600, 700 series gtx.
Maybe i'm just a cheap cunt

>>59576466
Don't care for the cooler and I don't want to do a custom loop.
But, I have a g sync monitor so I'm fine with the 1080.

>>59576495

>I don't plan on overclocking

Then don't buy a 7700k - get one of the locked models. Temp wise if you aren't overclocking the hyper evo is plenty.

>>59576523

The 1080ti exists anon.

>>59576523
Then why not a 1080ti?

>>59576533
I wanted to upgrade my card now, but didn't want to wait for the custom coolers to come out.
I might use the 1080 for a few weeks, see what comes out, send it back and buy a ti then.

r8 my ~7 y/o pc

>intel core i3 530
>6gb ddr3 ram
>1tb hdd
>ati radeon hd 5750 1gb

>>59576290
>>59576364
you guys can get a binned processor that'll do 4.9ghz for the same price from siliconlottery.com. they'll send you the settings they used to overclock it too so you only need to punch them into the bios. one of the guys from overclock.net runs the site

>>59571167
Get a bigger HDD bud, 1TB ain't enough these days.

>>59576427
>But, money doesn't matter to me
go full retard and buy RGB everything then.

File: MV5BMTQ5ODI0MDc4M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNTM5MDk3MTE@._V1_UX214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg (13KB, 214x317px)

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How id do ?
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/8BYrhq

>>59576556
evga has a step up program i think where you can send a graphics card back within 3 months and pay the difference and step up to a better one

>>59576585
I'm the 2nd anon. I thought about buying one from there, but it said that the top 78% were able to achieve 4.9. So, I figured why not roll the dice and buy one that could possibly oc past that.

>>59576622
I already have. All the parts on the list are rgb

>>59576653
good idea. i'm too lazy to spend a lot of time overclocking anymore and i usually get fucked by the silicon lottery anyway (my delidded 4770k with only do 4.2ghz) so i'm gonna be getting my next cpu from there if it's still a thing then

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I wish there was a "Stupid PC Build General" because I am technologically retarded. (You can probably tell by my build)

Budget is $1000 for a decent gaming computer.

I would appreciate if you guys could give me a general idea on whether the build is compatible.

Also how could I get this to be a little bit cheaper?
(Headphones are optional)
pls no bully

>>59576648
I was looking into it earlier and the ftw 1080 isn't on their list.
Most things that qualify for the program are stock or close to stock cards.

>>59576764
oh i've never used it before i just figured it was for all their cards

>>59576747
dont pay for windows 7 dude and if you do dont pay $100 for it

>>59576720
I just meant I was going to buy a 7700k from somewhere else that isn't silicon lottery.

>>59576773
I figured it was too, but guess not.
I have to see what the return policy for B&H is. Hopefully its longer than the time it takes for more custom cooled 1080tis to release.

>>59576747
Have you been holding onto this build for two years?

Wait another three weeks for Ryzen 5 and prices to go down after 500 series GPUs.

>>59576273
>1.7% yield

Wait, so if we were talking about CUDA core manufacturing, only 1.7/100 were viable?

How does that even happen?

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Buying these parts to go with an i7 7700 and Asus B250M-C. PC will primarily be used with Linux (KVM) and Windows for Lightroom/PS.

>16GB 2133MHz DDR4 (£82) or 16GB 2400MHz DDR4 (£102)?
>960 Evo 250GB (£125) + MX300 750GB (£195)/1TB (£260) or 960 Evo 1TB (£398)?

The storage is what I'm struggling with the most. If I used the first suggestion then I'd use the 960 Evo for Linux/VM(s) and the MX300 for the Lightroom Catalog+Previews+Recent Images and my Steam Library. Old data will be shifted off to the server.

Any alternative ideas?

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>>59576868
You missed some good old memes.

https://semiaccurate.com/2009/09/15/nvidia-gt300-yeilds-under-2/
https://semiaccurate.com/2009/10/01/nvidia-fakes-fermi-boards-gtc/

>>59576747
If you're going to go amd go ryzen my man.

>>59576585

Siliconlottery's testing is hardly conclusive - they only stress test for a few hours on high end boards with top tier cooling. You really need a good 24hrs stress test in the likes of IBT or prime95 to ensure that your cpu will never, ever crumble under such clocks. Even then you'd have to match their cooling and board to get that. Even going on from that you'll have to consider memory settings and thel ike.

No overclock is stable until its been thoroughly tested.

>>59576747
Go for Ryzen on the CPU, Ryzen 5 is coming out in April. You'll need an AM4 motherboard and likely a different cooler.

With that motherboard you can get DDR4 memory, you probably won't need above 8gb if you wanna cut costs.

Storage looks fine.

Go for a 1050 or 1050 ti on the GPU, very good for 1080p gaming at high settings.

Can't speak for the case.

Power supply is overkill, go for around 500w if you can find it cheaper. If this is a great deal then more power of course isn't a bad choice.

Don't pay for windows if you can help it, you can get windows 10 for free by downloading the media creation tool onto a USB and putting it onto your build when you're done. It'll ask for a product key but never actually need it, and basically all of the functionality of a licenced OS is still there. (download on here https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10)

Peripherals all look fine, can't really speak for them.

>>59577136
yea but they give you a decent starting point and cut out a lot of the work. tb.h i'd just punch in their settings and leave them unless it started crashing in a game or something then bump up the voltage until it stopped. good for those of us that are too lazy to take the time to do all that shit and test for hours and hours anymore

>>59577277

If you are lazy you simply buy the highest clocked model available ala 9590. Factory binning is much better than siliconlottery as at the very least you get a guarantee it will run at xyz clocks.


(amusingly the 9590 and 8370e are prime examples of what process maturity and binning can do).

>>59577342
intel doesnt do that though and u can usually get a good 20% more performance out of them over the clocks they put them at. plus siliconlottery's lowest binned ones are the same price as the stock processor so it doesnt cost anything extra

>>59577136
>No overclock is stable until its been thoroughly tested.

I've run an "unstable" overclock on my 4770k for years with no issues and uptimes for weeks. IBT and Prime95 for 24h is overkill honestly. Actually I'd say IBT for 24h would be stupid since nothing real world ever gets it that hot. You're just roasting your chip for nothing.

After 7 years i feel it is time to build a new PC.

What do you guys think about these? Could i do minimum quality VR with this? Any pitfalls? Or better alternatives in the same price range?

mobo: MSI Z270-A PRO
cpu: i5-7500
gpu MSI GTX 1060
ram: 8GB DDR4

>>59577574
If you're getting a Vive then get a 1070.

>>59577574
total budget?

>>59566653
How could I go about making my own laptop, from the frame to the motherboard? Or just strange or rare computers in general, I really want to make 7-9 inch laptops and mini pcs

>>59577653
Buy a RasPI, a screen, and a tiny mouse/KB combo, then construct a case.

>>59577617
I was looking at that too but thats sort of twice the price. I didnt decied what VR system should i go for. Ill keep this in mind.

>>59577639
around 400-600USD, im in the medieval central Yurop so things are priced differently.

>>59566653
Holy shit, I actually had same lego in my childhood.

>>59577688
Hope you're ok with bad frame rates and you enjoy headaches :(

>>59577846
classic /g/

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So I'm going to buy 3x 3000RPM fans by Noctua.

Can you guys recommend a good fan controller? The smaller the better. I don't want the controller to be visible from the outside of my case.

>>59577688
>around 400-600USD
no point, just save more money.

>>59578076
i have more money, im just not willing to pay more for this

>>59578109
you're not getting any kind of VR machine for even 600 dollars.

best budget build might be the ryzen with a vega video card coming out in may.

>>59576972
Wow, how will nVidia ever recover (kek)!

Unfortunately in 09 I didn't even know /g/ existed.

>>59576473
The integrated intel graphics are really good, that's why cheap graphic cards are useless and it's best to save.

You can play wii games at max fps with it. Just youtube it.

>>59578763
i'm looking at buying a used workstation with like an i5 2500k or i5 3470 for him and a cheap card. i can get like a gtx 660 or 670 for $50 or maybe like a 7950 so i figured that would be way better

>>59578581
Nvidia made a deal with TSMC to basically have free wafers for a year in return for long term payment. They beat it by sheer quantity.

Even then there weren't enough functioning full chips to sell, the tippy top end had 1/16th of the bugger chopped off. Even then it used hilarious amounts of power.

>>59579139
Could work yeah. What's your total budget though? Perhaps there's a way to make it work buying new.

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>>59576747
Samefag here
Is this okay? I have a micro ATX case and speakers and I don't need the headphones.
Also, I have an Antec NEO ECO 400c 400w Continuous Power PSU. Would that work with this build?
pcpartpicker said the build was 240w.

>>59579473
I'm pretty sure the 1700 comes with a Wraith already (aka a cooler).

Nowadays there are things called SSD on which people install their OS, programs and games. You might want one, then you can buy a HDD for storage later on. 2TB is right.

I don't know much about AMD so I can't comment on the motherboard and the RAM speed but I'm sure Ryzen is compatible with much better than 2133mhz. Also Patriot is shit, go Corsair or G.skill or something.

No idea about the GPU but that sounds a bit weak, see with the other anons.

>>59579473
>>59579515
For the SSD generally 250GB is the current good spot for your money. Go Samsung 850 EVO or Sandisk 240GB.

You can go 128GB if you think all your games and progs won't take that much space though, but well, better be safe.

>>59579412
i wanna spend like $200 bucks max. i just wanna get him started.

he's using an old optiplex 780 right now with a core 2 duo e8400 and a gt 8500 i pulled out of an old server and playing battlefield 3 and insurgency at 480p lol

>>59579473
Buy a 1600X when it comes out and buy a better card with the leftover money.

>>59579473
Also, other people recommended you AMD because you initially took a FX but... do you really need Ryzen?

You said you wanted a decent gaming computer, you need to know that, although I personally have a positive opinion of AMD, they aren't the best when it comes to gaming (but good at other things compared to Intel). Ryzen 1700 is still very good at gaming mind you, but I still feel like you should know about the whole picture before deciding for one or the other.

Also if it's not urgent it might also be worth waiting for Ryzen 5, that way you could save like $100 by going with one of the 5s if they end up being good in gaming (since you'd have no use of a R7 with so many cores and threads) and invest those said $100 into a better GPU (since gaming is what you're aiming for) or more RAM (>8GB, like 16).

>>59579594
$200 is really tight indeed. Gotta have to find a good offer if you don't want to wait and save up.

>>59579646
i'll probably get one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-7010-Tower-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3-20GHz-500GB-D09M-NO-OS-/152475694509?hash=item23804275ad:g:maoAAOSwSlBYzAnd#viTabs_0

it has a normal midtower case without the proprietary dell power supply space and standoffs and shit and get a $50 card to throw in it and a decent cheap power supply

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I'm upgrading to an 1800x and will probably get a 1080 or Vega when it comes out.

Pic related is the PSU in my current build, stable since 2010. Should I replace the PSU as well, or will I be fine to keep running this PSU?

>>59579685
you're fine unless you sli.

>>59579702

Thanks, I don't think I will ever fall for the SLI meme

I've been scratching my head over this: are there any modestly priced 250 GiB MLC SSDs available? I was thinking TLC, like a Samsung 850 EVO, but the computer for which I'm buying is meant to last about five years of regular work.

Also, what's decent PCI-e network adapter? Doesn't need to be too flash, just reliable.

>>59579770
Are you implying a 850 EVO would die before hitting the 5 years mark?

>>59579770
Samsung 850 EVO or PRO will be best, but really any decent ssd will do

>>59579770
just get a kingdian s280

>>59566653

if someone is building today, theres no reason to not build 1150 and get a HT kabylake CPU

>>59566653

i just bulit and put this together to replace my 1150 i3-4170 build which had a WD Black


https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZVnBWX

I've been using a SAPPHIRE HD 7850 2GB graphics card for a few years now and it seems like it's finally broken down, does anyone have any recommendations for a replacement of similar price and performance/quality? I've seen someone recommended a Gigabyte 1050 in here which I might go for as well.

>>59580104
thats not worth buying honestly.

Comparing putting computers together to lego is fucking retarded. It drives me nuts. Which part is like lego? Connecting half a different parts that only fit one way into specific slots? Following trivial instructions? Is changing the oil on your car just like putting together lego? Is cooking and following a recipe just like lego? Is hooking up a cable modem just like lego?

who makes the best aftermarket graphics cards?

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>>59580013
considering that kaby lake does not use that socket, there are one thousand one hundred and fifty one reasons why you should not build that

on the other hand, an r7 1700 with very fast RAM seems to be the no brainer choice after pic related was revealed today

>>59580172

no i had to buy a replacement, so i went with that

trust me i wanted the G4560 but nobody had it in stock except the jews at BH which were closed for sheckel weekend last week and plus it was MSRP'd at 70 dollars, so i spent 10 more for the better CPU

>>59579939
No, but I have no idea for how long the machine will be used.

>>59579987
>>59580004
If I'm going to abandon MLC, would something like an ADATA SP550 be all right?

>>59580236

i meant 1151 faet

>>59580236
delete this fake

>>59566653
planning on getting the 1600x when it eventually comes out. is asus still the mobo manufacturer to not get when it comes to am4 mobos?

>>59580320
It doesn't seem that way from reviews. A lot of people have had issues with the ASUS ROG whatever, but at the same time it seems there has been issues with most of them...

>>59580238
yeah thats still not worth buying.

>>59580380
interesting. ill look around more then then.

>>59580457
There is nothing available besides the fuckspensive ASUS and MSI boards. A lot of people are waiting for the ASROCK Taichi, myself included.

>>59573116
Good to know, thank you.

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Should I get a 1060 with 6gb or stick with the 3gb?

>>59580599

Is a 500w psu enough for a 4gb gpu?

>>59580492
true. i was looking at getting a b350 tomahawk board anyway. only have 1 gpu and dont really need more features that the x370 offers.

>>59580623
why not an 8GB RX480?

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>>59580623
You made your choice, now live with it.

>>59580848
Tell me what I should do you fucking slut before I bend you over and shove my meaty cock in to your butt.

>>59580885
more ram the better.

get it or get the 480 8gb.

>>59580831
>>59580885
>>59581006
480 is slower

>>59581237
I want nvidiots to leave.

Asking to be spoon-fed but I don't know much about building PC's.
Looking to make a build for music production with a bit of photo editing and the occasional session of gaming however I am mostly a console player. What would be a few options to look at regarding hardware?
I am based n Australia.

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>>59581339
>oh no the truth!!!!

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>>59581237
don't be a retard my dude.
pic related is for you.
>>59580623
like anon said live with your mistake and learn how to overclock, it's the only way you're going to get more potential out of your 1060 without losing money in the process of returning and buying a new one.

>>59581386
>1 fps difference

lmao

Can someone recommend me a motherboard compatible with an i5 3570k and a gtx1070?

>>59581454
exactly, nobody claimed one was better than the other other than you. you blindly spout bullshit because you're an nvidiot fanboy.

Got an Asus z270e rog motherboard with a i7 7700k.

Whats the best priced ram that can go to 3200mhz? If that's the max I can go

>>59567051
top rated PSU

may be too much though? what do you need it for?

>>59570214
amdrone shill

>>59573795
because idiots cannot wait for the endgame 2160p

hows it lookin' boys

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hNHhxY

>>59573795
What would be a good refresh rate to aim for on a 1440p monitor?

>>59567614
>200 series chipset
>skylake
you fucking walnut

pc gaming in 2017 is a joke

>>59581644
get your best friend to run you over with their car

Is a H110 chipset mobo still good for a build that it's intended for mid to high gaymen?

So far, I have researched a bit and the final part list for the PC I'm aiming for is like this:
AsRock H110M-HDS
ASUS Dual GTX 1050Ti
Intel Core i5 6500 (because I'm not sure if the mono comes with the BIOS update, and I'm not even sure if I can do it on my own; besides, no store in this 3rd world craphole sells the 7500 besides Amazon)
RAM Adata DDR4, 2133 MHz, CL 15, 2x4GB
An ugly ass Eagle Warrior case (green LEDs) - CG06R0RIHB010
WD HDD 2TB (still have to search model)
Thermaltake SP-750P PSU
ASUS VP228H Monitor

Should I get other brands in any of these components? At the moment I don't have the money to buy this stuff, but I intend to buy it by the end of the year, and I would like to know of there's any way to improve this build or if I should start over.

>>59581696

how old are you? how long have you been gaming on PC?

serious

>>59581710
inb4 retrofag

>>59581567
As low as possible, 1ms and 144hz, but it's a meme unless you play CS:GO or any other shooter that requires muh framerate & refresh rate, or enjoy media at the resolution and framerate.

File: intelchipsetcomparison.png (59KB, 1472x469px)

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>>59581705
H110 only has 6 PCIe 2.0 lanes in addition to the 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes provided by the CPU. This means that all of the on-board devices like the Ethernet controller, and your PCIe wifi adapter (if you install one) will be running at PCIe2.0.

I would strongly recommend B150 over H110, unless you are trying to save as much money as possible, in which case, why aren't you buying Ryzen 3?

>>59581705
>SP-750P
Just get a 500W gold rated for fuck's sake.
You only need more than that if you're doing multi-GPU or massive overclocks.

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After 3 years od /g/ i had enough. I finally had to resort to the filters. I finally dont have to worry about stupid linuxfags

>>59581928
A matter of personal preference, I don't like AMD that much, but I could consider it if their stock coolers for their new line of CPUs, the oh-so-beloved Ryzen, do not blow fucking ass because I don't really feel like spending extra bucks into watercooling or some shit like that.

Though, looking at >>59581386 I might consider swapping the 1050Ti for the RX 470 if prices are almost equal.
Also, can anyone answer my question about the BIOS update? Should I ask the seller before buying?

>>59581956
Seeing that I'm doing neither, I might settle for the classic EVGA 600B.

>>59581494
>what do you need it for?
sli 1080 ti and liquid cooling.

small form factor needed for my case to access the bottom fan slot.

>>59582027
>johnnyguru

>>59582070
so is it good or not?

i googled and everyone said it is.

>>59582098
>everyone said it is

>>59582105
>le 4chan meme arrow replies
yes or no faggot.

>>59582147
ignore that faggot

Johnny Guru is a good source, but don't take it as gospel.

typically, EVGAs higher ended shit is good. Literally just find and buy a super flower or seasonic PSU and you'll be good.

>>59582183
>Literally just find and buy a super flower or seasonic PSU and you'll be good.
tried but they were too long to fit or more expensive.

needed a 6 inch psu, instead of the 7.5 inch psu I have now.

>>59582147
>spoonfeed me!
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Power_supply

>>59582196
>muh le sekrit club

get the fuck over yourself this is a discussion forum, we discuss things.

Sperg lord

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>>59566653

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>>59582358
Go back to where you came from faggot

>>59575815
As long as you also get a psu then yea its a good first build. Rx460 might be a better purchase though

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
WHY IS DDR4 MEMORY SO EXPENSIVE
>Also 2400 RAM is more expensive than 3200 RAM (for G.SKILL)

So I need 5 x 140mm that are near silent
Noctua or be quiet!? Any other brand to account for?

>>59582531
>So I need 5 x 140mm that are near silent
>5x
why?

>>59582505
Because it's being put into phones, and the supply is drying up.
supply ~ demand

>>59582531
Noctuas. But why 5? Most people are good with the 2 built into their case. Unless you're switching those out, you only need one aftermarket fan.

Will a 550 EVGA GQ psu be enough for this?
i7 7700
H270 gaming 3 mobo
GTX 1080Ti (maybe strix or ftw)
16gb ram 3000mhz
2 HDDs
2 SSD's

According to a psu wattage online calculator I would need around 470w, but wanted to ask first
If it werent enough, what wattage should I aim for?

so how much ram and vram is necessary for a new build in 2017?

>>59582674
16GB/4GB

>>59582634
Aim for 700W, at least.
Running your PSU at its terminal efficiency can reduce its lifespan.

>>59582634
See >>59582196 or the OP >>59566653
>https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.installgentoo.com%2Findex.php%2FBuild_a_PC

>>59566653
I'm planning on upgrading later and, for me, performance wise, haswell is good enough and with /o/ endeavors and uni, I'm on a budget. With ryzen r5 coming up, if I give it a few months to iron kinks out, would a 4c/8t r5 1400 compare with a 4th gen i7 since they're both around the same performance per core but the 1400 being only $170? It'll be paired with a GTX 1060, as I already have that, so I wouldn't imagine it bottlenecking much at 1080p.

Also, I'm coming from an fx-8320e since it was very cheap and performs pretty much the same as the phenom ii 965 (which was fine in of itself) it replaced and I only switched for temps and freebies I got that reimbursed the processor and then some.

>>59582674
32/8

>>59582674
64/16

>>59582688
>>59582722
>>59582725
wat

This is a new build. I have had a friend look over and I changed some things, but what do you guys think?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Jtw6jc

>>59582674
8/2

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Nf6sBP

My goal is to keep it near silent and cool thats why the 5 fans and aftermarket cooler for a locked cpu
Replace the Ti with an aftermarket design like strix,ftw or zotac didnt put on the partlist because they arent listed yet
M.2 will be used for bootup and main apps, ssd for muh gaymz and hdds for data hoarding (also will be backed up on a nas)

Could anyone recommend me a FOSS friendly PC build.

>>59582768
get a modular or semi-modular psu
get 2×8 gb of ram
get a faster ssd like the 850 evo or sandisk ultra 2
consider getting a mechanical keyboard
also, i'm pretty sure there are far better mouses for less
consider getting a different resolution monitor unless you're dead set on 4k gaming which might be hard on some titles with a 1070. i personally think 144hz monitors @1k is the way to go but that might be overkill for a 1070

>>59582901
>1k
so, 1024x768?

>>59582926
1920x1080

and scratch that on the psu, just get a fully modular gold certified psu

File: Untitled.png (152KB, 1154x1296px) Image search: [Google]

152KB, 1154x1296px

Anyone know when the STRIX 1080ti is dropping? assuming $699MSRP.

Also, if anyone sees any potential savings I'd like opinions.

>>59582940
That's 2K

just bought a motherboard and 16 gigs of ram off of Craigslist, the dumb ass put 1866 and 1600 sticks together, anything I can do? My ram is now at 798

>>59582964
Why are you ordering an OS when you can easily pirate it for free? Besides, it's fucking Windows 10, why would you pay anything for it?

>>59582986
>you're right
don't listen to me im retarded lmfao

>>59582832
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CqKBYr

>>59582964
>paying full for windows 10 like a goy
https://www.kinguin.net/category/19429/windows-10-professional-oem-key/
>buying rgb fans
Don be a stupid gaymur. Get noctua fans

>>59583026
>https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CqKBYr
I dont understand some changes, like that bigass cooler(fits in my budget only want to know why), the z270 mobo?

The change on hard drives and psu are fine by me

PC for a Freedumb guy like me.

>>59583074
NH-D15: by far the best quality quiet air cooled heatsink
>why the z270 mobo
Overclockable mobo goes with overclockable cpu

>>59583012
Pirating software is for degenerates.

>>59583112
Not when that software is explicitly made to screw you over in ways you cannot begin to comprehend.

>>59583110
Ohhhh, just realised that that wasnt a K CPU. Time for me to sleep.

>>59583110
Its a 7700 non k so no OC

>>59583282
>>>59583282
>>59583282
>>>59583282
>>59583282
>>>59583282

>>59583110
What make the heatsink better? the fans?
Genuinely curious since 99% of air coolers look identical

>>59583306
Both the fans and the better design of the heatsink.

>>59576364
>7700k
nice housefire anon

>>59579473
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/8BYrhq

it is a little bit above your budget but it is a very solid build and i would recommend saving up for this