Is anybody else ready for the chipped credit/debit card meme

>>59478462
I just started using cash again

>>59478462
In Europe, we've had chips for the last 15 years but everyone is using contactless and/or mobile payment these days. It's funny how Americans is really lagging behind when it comes to payment.

Fun fact: there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check, as in, the employer writes out an actual check which you have to cash in.

>>59478462
>this is what Americlaps have to put up with

>>59478462
>Is anybody else ready for the chipped credit/debit card meme to die

It won't, but I'll patiently wait for you dumb-fucking-ass retarded swipefags to finally kill yourselves.

At this point these threads are literally baiting and >>>/b/

>>59478462
It takes like 5 seconds most here.

>>59478462
I'm ready for encrypted NFC with passcode/phrase or something similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gPp5n_WK0k

fucking americans I swear to god

>>59478499
That can't be legal.
Is this a joke?

>>59478499
How do checks even work, I read about them but never seen one in real life. Do you just go to a bank or store with a slip of paper with a number and a signature on it and they give you money? What's to prevent people from just writing checks in other peoples name (how would they even check if the signature matches) or just adding some zeroes?

>20-30 SECONDS LATER
>United States of America
ayyy lmao

The newest generation of chip payment machines work almost instantaneous. The type of lags you describe were a thing ten years ago.

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>finally using chip when everywhere else is using nfc

what the fuck america lmao

>>59478499
My American girlfriend verified this. Before she moved here she got checks which she had to cash in.

That's fucking crazy considering I haven't ever even seen a check outside of those huge "you won money in a competition" checks in my entire life. Money has always just gone straight to the bank account.

>>59478570
oh and she moved here in january so it's still how they do shit over there.

>>59478536
Checks are personal, they have all sorts of watermarks and numbers that aren't easily forged.
Ironically, plenty of banks in the US have different variants of digital checks now.... Meaning that you still have to manually cash them in yourself.

>>59478523
It's very real, but not very common. It still is a real thing, though.

Checks - think of an analog debt card.

>>59478592
yes, but cant i just add a zero?

>>59478522

lol this. sometimes its even faster

>>59478649
Well, pay checks are usually machine printed. But yes, you can technically do that. This is why US laws regarding this is extremely strict though, to try to scare you off from doing this. Changing $200 to $2000 doesn't seem so motivating when you risk 15+ years in prison for fraud.

>>59478499
>Fun fact: there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check, as in, the employer writes out an actual check which you have to cash in.
They print it. No writing actually occurs. The place where I work has the option for direct deposit, check, or bank card. It's really up to you.

>>59478693
oh snap.

Cryptography is not a meme.

>>59478499
Almost everyone has direct deposit. Contactless died when banks implemented it too early in the US and it was easily cloned, killing trust in contactless.

>>59478522
That works barely anywhere.

>>59478563
We have brand new Ingenico and Verifone machines in the US that take this long.

>>59478766
It is when it's very slow and poorly implemented.

It's supposed to prevent card present fraud that results from card cloning. In reality, EMV is flawed in a way that allows banks to blame consumers for fraudulent purchases.

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/unattack.pdf
>EMV, also known as"\Chip and PIN", is the leading system for card payments world-wide
>[...]
>We have discovered that some EMV implementers have merely used counters, timestamps or home-grown algorithms to supply this number. This exposes them to a \pre-play" attack which is indistinguishable from card cloning from the standpoint of the logs available to the card-issuing bank, and can be carried out even if it is impossible to clone a card physically (in the sense of extracting the key material and loading it into another card). Card cloning is the very type of fraud that EMV was supposed to prevent.
>[...]
>We found flaws in widely-used ATMs from the largest manufacturers. We can now explain at least some of the increasing number of frauds in which victims are refused refunds by banks which claim that EMV cards cannot be cloned and that a customer involved in a dispute must therefore be mistaken or complicit. Pre-play attacks may also be carried out by malware in an ATM or POS terminal, or by a man-in-the-middle between the terminal and the acquirer. We explore the design and implementation mistakes that enabled the flaw to evade detection until now: shortcomings of the EMV specification, of the EMV kernel certification process, of implementation testing, formal analysis, or monitoring customer complaints.

>>59478768
>that works barely anywhere
?????????????

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>>59478499
>Fun fact: there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check, as in, the employer writes out an actual check which you have to cash in.

Can confirm. Worked at restaurant a couple years back, and they did physical paychecks. Last I checked, the restaurant still does them. It's just easier for mom and pop shops.

I also get paid in checks for music lessons and freelance dev work, but I don't think that counts because I'm getting paid directly by the students/parents/clients.

On the flip side, I've gotten paid electronically for performing in stage shows, which just seems ass backwards. You shouldn't have to fill out so much extra paperwork just so they can send a one time payment. Especially considering that the next time I performed for them, they had lost/invalidated all that paperwork, so I had to fill it out again.

(To fill out the burgerland data points, jobs I've done at a video store, at a university, and as a software engineer have all done electronic payments.)

>>59478740
>have automated payment system that prints out checks automatically every pay day
>employee must manually cash in money and put it in his account
>employee must manually deduct taxes and save them so he can pay the government at a later point


>instead of just depositing money directly into your account taxes automatically deducted and information sent to the government (for taxing purposes) so your tax returns automatically have updated info

Americans are so fucking weird, I swear.

>>59478693
>>>59478649
>Well, pay checks are usually machine printed.
>machine printed

Wtf why not just use bank transfers? Apparently they have all relevant information electronically available. Why spend money on printing things on paper, adding the inconvenience of having to cash the check in person.

I know how checks work and that they used to be a thing, but in my entire life I've never been in contact with one. And I'm 30+. Even my father can't recall the last time he handled a check. Definitely not after 1990.

>>59478796
In the US most stores that have NFC capable readers, they aren't enabled or aren't working properly. I'd put my success rate in using NFC via Visa Paywave (Only card that has it is my Costco Visa credit card) and via Apple Pay/Android Pay at about one in eight.

It's gotten a little bit better since Apple has been shilling Apple pay, but not much.

>>59478570
>My American girlfriend verified this. Before she moved here she got checks which she had to cash in.
>That's fucking crazy considering I haven't ever even seen a check outside of those huge "you won money in a competition" checks in my entire life. Money has always just gone straight to the bank account.

A lot of companies offer direct deposit but you have to sign up for it. Otherwise youll just receive a check in the mail like normal.

Business is mostly done through checks although a few companies are moving to ACH/direct deposit.

My families business offers both check payment and ACH though we charge 2% for ACH as it's paid faster (next day) than our check runs (~25 days)

>>59478768
>That works barely anywhere.
It works in all of Europe and most of the big cities in the US, wtf?

>>59478462
>BEEP BEEP BEEP [at 70 decibels] REMOVE THE FUCKING CARD YOU IDIOT
just pull out the instant it say "approved"

>>59478841
Most credit cards are chip-and-signature in the US, meaning they don't say "approved" until
1) the card is removed (already beeping at you at this point)
2) the signature prompt appears (this only happens after the card is removed
3) a signature is signed on the screen and submitted

>>59478462

Bank Meme. TOP LEL.

>>>59478563 (You)
>We have brand new Ingenico and Verifone machines in the US that take this long.


Shitty infrastructure maybe?

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Hey OP do I have a car for you!

Money expires before you buy anything

>>59478818
>Wtf why not just use bank transfers? Apparently they have all relevant information electronically available. Why spend money on printing things on paper, adding the inconvenience of having to cash the check in person.
Because MUH FREEDOM

>I know how checks work and that they used to be a thing, but in my entire life I've never been in contact with one. And I'm 30+. Even my father can't recall the last time he handled a check. Definitely not after 1990.
I'm also 30 and I only dealt with checks from American customers back when I worked at this ferry company.

But in fairness, most Americans just used their credit card. I worked there for 4 years and only had to deal with checks 3 times, but it was a fucking hassle and I had to go through a tedious procedure to ensure that it was filled out correctly and valid, with a queue building up.

>>59478818
Some people don't have/want a bank account so they can't set up direct deposit.

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>>59478649
When writing a check you have to write the amount out in words as well as numbers. My landlord only takes checks still, so I have to write "$775.00" and "Seven hundred seventy five and 00/100" both on the face of the check in ink. It's hard to alter a check after it's been made out and it's a serious offence.

>>59478856
>use chip
>still need signature
Either this is trolling or Americans are even beyond retarded. The whole point of chip+pin is that it is safer than magnetic stripe + signature. I've never ever encountered a terminal that required both chip and signature.

>>59478649
I've written maybe three checks my whole life. I was always told to write a line after the last digit. Most stores will still take them, but nobody else will.

>>59478462
Germany here
>insert card
>enter 4 digit PIN
>wait 2 seconds
>quiet beep notifying me that the transaction is done and I can now remove the card
It's not that bad, certainly better than fearing for people making copies of your card and having to put them in magnet-blocking sleeves.

>>59478915
Banks rarely offer chip and pin in the US, and if the payment terminal offers signature, it's usually preferred even if PIN is supported. Banks think Americans are super lazy and will be more likely to use another credit card if they're forced to enter a PIN.

Look at this list and how many are chip-and-sig only or chip and sig preferred:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_TnruO1Kad7rjFEOESbHqs9DPV-SHlK5DpJyJG-W5Hk/edit#gid=0

Banks had PINs on debit cards long before chips so those largely use PINs. But if the debit transaction is processed in credit mode, then even on debit cards it's chip-and-signature.

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Is it a good idea to tell your bank where and what you eat for how much money?
Considering that you are what you eat, we live a post snowden world and money rules our reality?

>>59478955
That's really, really strange if you ask me. Both my debit card and my credit card use the same system, chip + pin because signatures are considered inherently unsafe and worthless. Only on the offline fallback mode (meaning when terminals go offline due to powerouts or whatever), do they require your signature and a photo ID.

It used to be common back when most restaurants would swipe the magnetic stripe and then come back to your table to get your signature, but now everyone just use these handheld terminals requiring you to use chip and enter pin (for tipping they are required by law to have built in protection for tipping above 20%, so even if you mistakenly enter your pin when you should enter tip amount, the terminal will simply refuse the transfer).

>>employee must manually deduct taxes and save them so he can pay the government at a later point
>>instead of just depositing money directly into your account taxes automatically deducted and information sent to the government (for taxing purposes) so your tax returns automatically have updated info
>Americans are so fucking weird, I swear.

Tbf, there are good reasons for bit deducting taxes immediately. People actually realize how much money they are giving to the government when they have to make the transfer themselves and see a bill for the yearly sum. That also makes them more conscious of what they receive in return.

Moved from Germany to Switzerland some time ago. In Germany, every pay discussion always revolved around net pay. Here people always discuss gross pay. Taxes are reasonable and the tax code is understandable without dedicated study for years. Rant over.

>>59478993
Prepaid debit cards exists for this purpose, anonymous payment in the digital age. I fill it up every month on pay day, and use that for day to day transactions.

>>59478462
The processing takes the same time be it chip or swipe.

Though I hear some places in America still require signatures after swiping which is a bit boggling.

>>59479026
You literally cannot tip more than 20%?

>>59478499
yep, lots of checks still
if you don't want one you can do direct deposit

>>59479048
Prepaid reloadable debit cards are basically banking accounts minus the features. Per anti-money laundering provisions in the patriot ACT, banks are required to collect SSNs for reloadable accounts.

Prepaid gift cards (non-reloadable) don't require giving an SSN, but they have a fee (usually $6-$10) on top of the value and then you can't reload them.

>>59479056
No. I can with cash, of course, but I never use cash anywhere.

>>59479074
It's different in my country though.

>>59478567
someone has a patent on NFC.

similar to microsoft having a patent on the smart/touch table for the past 30 years and nobody able to make a table that is "smart" device with NFC payments like japan has all over

>don't want to leave an electronic trail
>but credit card offers incredible rewards

>>59479097
Ok, yeah, my post was exclusively about the US.

Personally I pay most of my meals in cash, and as far as restaurants go, they can tell where you went but not what you ate. If I go to a sandwich shop I probably had a sandwich, steakhouse probably a steak. If I go to the cheesecake factory with their thirty plus page menu good luck figuring out what the hell I had.

>>59478462
I use the apple watch and i don't have to do that chip shit

>>59479112
>someone has a patent on NFC.
You're wrong

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication#Standards

>>59479113
wright in a benis

dem feeels

>>59478499
I still receive actual paychecks. It doesn't cost anything and a physical act of putting the check in the ATM is strangely satisfying.

>>59479113
same
feels bad man
>>59479127
Not really, that's why they don't have it all over, it's some meme off-patent like apple owning the touch screen

>>59479140
I have Charles Schwab Bank and I just open the app on my phone, take a picture of the front and back, and presto, done.

If the payment posts and isn't disputed after fourteen days, you shred the check. If it is disputed, I put it in a prepaid envelope and sent it to the bank.

>>59478816
payroll deductions are an employee/contractor distinction. Not form of payment.

>>59479117
Right. Well, I usually pay with my normal debit card. There are some quite strictly enforced privacy laws in my country that requires my bank to delete all transactional data except time and sum after four months, so the government can't really tell what exactly I've spent money on.

>>59478462
Americans and their potato DSL ridden with datacaps... you guys are truly fucked over by those companies. o7

>>59478921
> certainly better than fearing for people making copies of your card and having to put them in magnet-blocking sleeves.

How does that even work? You cant read a magnetic stripe card remotely. If anything, it's the chip cards that need the blocking sleeves because they can be read remotely.

>>59478511
You lying.

>>59479144
>that's why they don't have it all over,
Well, 1) they do have it all over europe and most of the US and 2) the real reason is because credit card companies prefer to use their own solutions so they can charge royalties from everyone.

>it's some meme off-patent like apple owning the touch screen
It isn't. It's literally an open ISO standard. Stop spreading misinformation, it's like you're a CNN shill or something.

>>59479213
nobody's talking about the standard except you, though

>>59478570
>>59478499
>eurococks are so used to fiat, worthless sequences of 0s and 1s that they dont even understand the concept of "true value" money anymore

not like the dollar is any better but jesus

>>59478828
>though we charge 2% for ACH

WHAT THE FUCK

>>59479192
If you have it in your wallet, and you wallet in your pants, then someone can hold a device against your pants for a second and read the card that way. Won't notice it in a crowd.

>>59479192
The chip is implemented using some 512-bit AES/RSA encryption scheme.

>>59479192
The cards with the wireless NFC chip can be read remotely, but they use a dynamic CVV3 for transactions. Replay attacks (capturing output of the card once and repeating it) are impossible. Man in the middle (reading a chip at time of transaction from someone else not near the register, relaying it over a mobile phone and playing that to a register) is theoretically possible but hard.

"Chip" cards with a visible silver/golden chip on the left edge are contact chips and are not readable remotely.

>>59479240
this

>>59479262
weak
it takes that long for 512bit? lel

>>59478499
>there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check
Frenchman here, some of the jobs I had, the boss gave me a paycheck
I liked going to the bank to cash it in, it was more enjoyable than just checking my account

>>59479237
>you can't understand the true value of money unless you have physical dollar bills

Are you mentally challenged? Is exchanging physical objects literally the only thing that prevents you from giving away more than you actually have?

>>59478462
This is like seeing someone complaining how farming is really slow and that we should go back to being hunter-gatherers.

>>59479278
>I liked going to the bank to cash it in, it was more enjoyable than just checking my account
Considering that most banks don't even have offices anymore (they're solely online), and in the rare cases that they do, they close at 15:00, it is a hassle.

>>59479283
kek this
there is no value in any type of currency unless YOU (the person) thinks so

>>59479283
Not that Anon but it's pretty well established that people tend to value their electronic funds less than physical funds. You're not spending what you don't have, but you ARE spending where you may have chosen not to

>>59479247
Seems like an urban legend. The problem is that you have to run the scanner along the stripe on credit card, which is thin and a good 3 inches long. Not to mention the difficulty of constructing a reader that can read through your pants and wallet (normal readers pretty much only work if the head is almost touching the card. Not as trivial as simply tapping some guy's back pocket.

>>59479321
>Considering that most banks don't even have offices anymore (they're solely online), and in the rare cases that they do, they close at 15:00, it is a hassle.
What the fuck

>any year
>not exclusively paying in cash

>>59479388
Yeah I looked it up and it only works with contactless credit cards. Those have a range of a few inches and can be read through pants, just like I said.
non-contactless magnetic only can only be read by skimmers http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/would-you-have-spotted-the-fraud/

>>59479283
Where I live, in western Europe, it is common for children to not have bank accounts but just physical money, precisely so they can learn the value of money appropriately, spending and saving, etc. Or they have a bank account that they can deposit/withdraw money from at a bank, but no way to pay electronically. Many children get a proper (though limited) electronic payment card of some sort around 12-13.

tl;dr Americans are children and can't handle adult moneys.

>>59479321
Just use the ATM senpai

>>59479391
Employee wages, renting office space, following security routines for dealing with money, renting security guards etc is expensive as fuck. Even ATMs are being phased out, because most people never use them.

Everyone uses card and online banks anyway.

Land of the free eurocucks, we have based pro white president trump.

>>59479432
See >>59479439

Also
>ATM
>cash in bank checks

>>59478499

>all these underage kiddos never experienced the joy of taking their paycheck to the bank on payday

honestly i feel bad for you

>>59478499
I refuse to get direct deposit because of this >>59479480

>>59479456
Yes, most ATMs will deposit checks. It's really nice actually.

>>59479480
>Having a (((bank account)))
>Not storing your life savings in a safe where the jews can't get it.

>>59479427
It's the same here in northern Europe, there's an age limit on having a debit card tied to your account at 12 or 13, and even then it's this visa electron system that provides a bunch of safeguards.

>>59479374
>You're not spending what you don't have, but you ARE spending where you may have chosen not to
That's the same argument against physical money, though. Dealing with physical money costs everyone a lot of money, due to tedious routines and security checks and transport. In My country, it is therefore not uncommon that you have to pay an extra fee for using physical money instead of their card terminal. Politicians are pushing hard to remove a law requiring shops etc to accept cash payments, so in near future it is expected that small shops will refuse cash and only accept electronic payment.

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>>59479499

>>59479480
>>59479492
I'd imagine that I get equally exited to wake up every pay day by an automatically sent SMS from my bank telling me that I've received my salary.

Also, I've configured a bunch of automatic payments for all of the recurring bills I have (electricity, broadband, downpayments, bus card, monthly savings etc) so when I use my money, I can be sure that everything left on my account is 100% spendable.

>>59479427
This is pretty spot on. Children are never taught the value of money, then grow up and, unsurprisingly, spend money left and right because their parents enabled them.
On a similar note American children can't legally work until 16 which is 100% bullshit

>>59479560
I've had direct deposit before, getting the email is not the same as bringing your check to the bank and having the teller start counting hundreds in front of you.

>>59478462
>he doesn't use androidpay or samsungpay

>>59479566
That's blatantly false. I started working at 15 and my sister did at 16, both legally

>>59479566
I've had electronic payments most of my life and I manage my personal economy just fine. The problem isn't that children aren't taught the value of money by not having physical objects, the problem is that since the late 80s the world's accumulated economy has been booming (except for the 2007 recession) and interest rates have dropped all over, so people are now getting more and more into debt because of it.

>>59479596
*sister did at 14

>>59479578
I can imagine why it may be appealing to others.

But for me the drawback of having to manually pay my bills, drag my ass down to some office that closes way to early, etc is just off putting.

>>59479621
So deposit what you need for bills

>>59479610
>>59479596
>>59479566
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_laws_in_the_United_States#Federal_law

>The main law regulating child labor in the United States is the Fair Labor Standards Act. For non-agricultural jobs, children under 14 may not be employed, children between 14 and 16 may be employed in allowed occupations during limited hours, and children between 16 and 18 may be employed for unlimited hours in non-hazardous occupations.[1] A number of exceptions to these rules exist, such as for employment by parents, newspaper delivery, and child actors.[1] The regulations for agricultural employment are generally less strict.

>>59479593
I'm upset I cannot enjoy the latest smartphones because I'd pay for extras like fingerprint scanners or androidpay shit. I would never use it, have never used it and will never use it.

But I shall pay for that shit? Because it's in every 10 hour battery runtime phone in 2017? Fuck off. And fuck the marketing turd that came up with this bullshit.

Fuck the smartphone industry, they have no idea what happens when a human bean goes outside. A fucking quad core smartphone connected to the cars stereo with bluetooth, navigation (data and GPS enabled) last 2 to 5 hours.

Who's day is over after 3 hours?

How can they not see this?

Fuck this smartphone pay shit, seriously.

>>59479197
He's not if he lives in a 1st world country.

>>59479630
>children between 14 and 16 may be employed in allowed occupations during limited hours
In other words: Children under 16 can legally work

>>59478499

All that technology you are bragging about was invented by Americans. You're welcome, and thanks for being good consumerist sheeps.

I remember working for a place so fucking incompetent, for about year, that I didn't trust with my bank account info, so I just opted for paper checks.

>>59479628
Or, you know, just have it deposited automatically, since the law requires employers to do this.

I never use cash at all, because in my country people (politicians, police, store owners...) are pushing heavily to phase cash out.

>>59479654
Push back

>>59478522
It is amazing that this isn't everywhere. I haven't swiped or even inserted my chip in forever.

>>59479650
Lmao barely though. I remember being 15 and not being able to wash knives. As a dishwasher.

>>59479663
I don't want to. Cash is a fucking hassle and it's crazy expensive for everyone involved in cash transactions.

>>59479654
that post makes me sad, there's so much wrong with it.

>>59478462
What, you need to put it yourself? In my shit country we just hand it to the cashier, she puts the card in the machine and hands it to us so we can input the pin.

All this while she's putting the goods in the bag or something so there's not really lost time.

>>59479672
Barely and can't are two different words.

>>59479673
Enjoy your lack of privacy. And how the fuck is cash more expensive? Is there some retarded tax for using real money or something?

>>59478536
You do know that 1 dollar bill in your pocket is just a slip of paper with a number in it, right?

>>59479140
Can you describe the entire process?

I will start with the general sense of the places I have worked at:
Companies have a system where they receive employee hours.
Most places it is a digital system where the employee writes their hours, other places have people hired to deal with it and may use paper.
Then you get a letter, these days it is all digital, but they used to send it with the mail.
That letter showed you the math, how many hours, how much is subtracted in taxes and how much you get paid.
Then you get money sent to your bank account.
Depending on how you are employed, you can get a payment either the last work day in the month or every other thursday.
If there is problems, you usually get paid the difference the next payment, maybe sooner, maybe later depending on the problem.

Now if you get paid with checks, this system is completely different.
I assume they either send the money through the mail or is handed to you in person.
But why?
You have to spend time converting it into money. But are there any benefits?

>>59479237
Fun fact: Europeans use cash way more frequently than other methods of payment, but still they don't act like retards when it comes to contemporary forms of payment.

>>59479566
My parents saved up 150k for my brother and I'm horrified that he will waste it.

I did the same thing myself because until 18 I wasn't taught or given any kind of cash, no allowance or anything. If I wanted something I had to skip my school lunch and save the $3.

Then suddenly I got a lump sum of $3000 and started blowing it on expensive clothes, watches, you name it. Boy I felt like a millionaire with that laughable 3k. Luckily I stopped early as I saw the number going down and the realization that's all I had to my name kicked in.

Anyways It'll be all his when he's 18. I wish there is a way to restrict his spending until an older age. My parents shed lots of blood sweat and tears saving that much for him.

>>59479698
>Enjoy your lack of privacy.
1) We have privacy laws
2) Prepaid cards and mobile payment apps exist

>And how the fuck is cash more expensive?
For society in general, yes. For shop owners, yes. You need to follow all sorts of tedious routines when dealing with cash. You need to transport it safely and secure. The government needs to destroy old money and produce new. With cash, you get all sorts of rounding errors, so you lose a cent here a dime there. Money needs to be stored safely in vaults and security boxes.

>Is there some retarded tax for using real money or something?
Except for stores and every day items, you usually have to pay a fee for paying with cash, if they accept cash payments at all. Your GP, hospitals, taxis, restaurants, hardware stores, etc. usually don't accept cash. Only big store chains and large shops do, because it is fucking expensive.

>>59479762
I don't know what shithole you live in, and I don't care to know. I'm just happy I'm not unfortunate enough to have been born there.

>>59479762

>For society in general, yes. For shop owners, yes. You need to follow all sorts of tedious routines when dealing with cash. You need to transport it safely and secure. The government needs to destroy old money and produce new. With cash, you get all sorts of rounding errors, so you lose a cent here a dime there. Money needs to be stored safely in vaults and security boxes.

Do you even know how money works?

>>59478499
It's easier to pay illegals that way

>>59478462
>insert card
>enter pin
>1-5 seconds processing
>done
fix'd

>>59479762
Please tell me you live in South East Asia or something

>>59479760
>I didn't know the value of money because my parents didn't give me money for free

Entitled much? I was never given any money by my parents and I will probably inherit nothing but debt from them, I had to work since I was 12 to get any money to spend on stuff I wanted to.

>>59478462
well ya it takes longer because you guys are stuck in the stone age and still run your interac machines through phone lines and not ethernet. Takes like 5-10s here in canada, it takes longer to type in your pin than it does to wait for the transaction to go through.

What you posted in your OP literally never happens ever. I haven't had to swipe since chip and pin was new here over a decade ago

>>59479779
cash is most costly for society because it has physical weight and needs to be transported around the country you dumb fuck.
and they DO need to replace old and busted currency.
but i have no clue about the rounding bullshit and storing it cus most should be in circulation, not in a fucking vault.

>>59479780
The illegal would have to go to a bank to cash it. Seems like an easy way to catch them.

>>59479802
I live in Northern Europe.

>>59479779
What exactly is wrong with this? Physical money is expensive as fuck.

>>59479821
Shop owners have to pay like a percent fee on every transaction with debit or credit.

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>be me
>in no internet australia
>use chip and pin
>insert card
>click saving
>enter pin
>hit enter
>one-two seconds later
>payment approved

It literally yells at you if you swipe, and you have a chip, or you can tap if you are that type of person

>>59479760
There's this thing called talking that you can do with other people to express your thoughts in a way they can receive your thoughts. Try that.

>>59479833
For you

>>59479804
That's an odd way of interpreting what I said but okay lol

>>59479835
>Shop owners have to pay like a percent fee on every transaction with debit or credit.
They have to pay a percent fee on cash too.

>>59479821
>but i have no clue about the rounding bullshit
Automatic money counters are unreliable and always operate with some form of margin of error.

You're correct about money being mostly in circulation though, but banks and stores still need safes and protocols to store money until it can be transported.

Also, cash is frequently damaged and destroyed and inarguably a factor in many crimes (as in paying people "black" / black markets).

>>59479835
>percent fee
nope it's a flat fee, and only a few tiny kiosks and shit care about it and put up a sign saying "minimum €5 card purchase" or similar.

>>59479835
>percent fee
Nope, it's a flat fee. And guess what, the same companies also transport cash and they charge fees for that too.

>>59479886
and cash is still way more expensive because they have to transport it

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>>59479821

You do understand credit card processors charge per transaction fees.

Digital transactions are inherently easier to exploit, due to their nature. Saying 'paper is most costly lol', is just retarded.

>>59479907
>digital transactions are inherently easier to exploit

Maybe in a world where they only use insecure, unencrypted protocols and where counterfeit cash doesn't exist.

It is well-established that digital transactions has been the death of plenty of money laundry schemes for example.

I hate people paying with cash.
They keep counting their tiny shitty coins to exactly what they are owing and it takes forever, when holding the card onto the reader takes less than a second.
I don't understand why some people insist on fiddling with coins that much. My wallet is so much smaller when not having to carry all those.

>>59479869
That's the problem. We live like shit. The 150k is going to fry his brain. Once he spends only "$600" on that gtx 1080 it's all down hill from there.

>>59478818
Not everyone has bank accounts, and some that do don't want to give their employer permission to withdraw funds from their personal accounts which is what you have to agree to for direct deposits.

>>59479907
>Saying 'paper is most costly lol', is just retarded.
except for the fact that is reality, and it's not only paper, coins cost too, you fucking retard.

go look up how much the cash transportation and replacement costs in america alone

>>59478462
I always use cash irl. Use the card only @ atms and to pay online. Is this very uncommon?

>>59479907
see >>59479905
and replace old and damaged currency also have costs. cash is way more costly than using cards.

>>59479907
Paper money is most costly though. By far.

In 2014 the US government spent $188 billion for printing money worth $130 billion, and 90% of this money replaced bills already in circulation. And that was the cost of merely printing it.

>>59479907
>>59479957
>>59479986
These. It costs the US more to produce and replace coins in circulation than their actual worth.

>>59479934

There are many ways to exploit digital transactions, even if they are encrypted.

Counterfeit cash takes little more effort and resources.

>>59480001

Yoou can't count the worth of money by their printed value. Cash gets reused repeatedly and its use as trading medium creates a far higher value than the cost of producing is. Assuming (naively) that some amount of cash is used to pay 100 people over its lifetime that is in fact a cost of close to 1% to print the bills.

>>59480010
>There are many ways to exploit digital transactions, even if they are encrypted

Digital transactions are inherently safer, otherwise people involved wouldn't be pushing for it. Nobody is interested in losing money, you dumbass.

Wirefraud cost US businesses $3 billions in 2016 according to the FBI. In comparison, 70,000 fake bills are singled out every week(!) in Florida alone.

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>>59480060
>cash has costs to replace old damaged currency and to transport it
>credit/virtual does not
you can stop posting now you fucking retard

>>59480060
While your reasoning isn't entirely wrong, there still is an inherent cost in replacing old money that isn't there with digital money.

>>59478462
I live in the fucking third world and it takes like 5 seconds after I enter my card password.
I guess not everything is better in the US.

>>59478462

Literally 5 seconds to chip and pin in the UK. I use contactless mostly and that's even less.

>>59479886
>>59479904
nope, its a percent fee here in canada.

And I dont know of many companies that pay companies to transport cash, that's usually done at the end of the day/week by the owner or manager. hence the employees having to do safe drops throughout the day. Most businesses still prefer debit transactions because there's way less risk incurred with no cash, and its easier to deal with from an accounting percentage (less room for human error) and almost all of them hate credit cards because they charge a higher percentage than debit.

>>59480167
here there is no fee.

>>59480167
>nope, its a percent fee here in canada.
I don't believe you, actually. Mostly because this would be an incentive for shop owners to split payments into multiple smaller payments, which obviously isn't happening.

So there might be some mixed model, but no one uses a percentage alone.

>And I dont know of many companies that pay companies to transport cash
All big stores do this.

>that's usually done at the end of the day/week by the owner or manager. hence the employees having to do safe drops throughout the day
Not everyone operates a small store in a close proximity to a bank. It's fairly common for larger shopping centres etc to accumulate these safe drops and have it transported every week or every other week.

Every once in a while the slips the employee has to fill out with the safe drop gets wrong (aka the money in the bag doesn't correspond with the form/slip and or doesn't correlate with the transactions in the cashier), and then there's a process in tracing everything back.

>Most businesses still prefer debit transactions because there's way less risk incurred with no cash, and its easier to deal with from an accounting percentage (less room for human error) and almost all of them hate credit cards because they charge a higher percentage than debit.
We're not talking credit vs debit here though, credit card companies obviously have higher fees on their cards (which the customer in exchange get insurance etc for, but the shop owners lose from).

i have set up a couple of these machines, the main issues with the chip is if the store use phone line for the transactions it take forever.
Most shit store wont bother run a RJ45 cable to their terminal and some of the les shitty one will use the wifi one with a shitty router that had been laying around in the back of the store next to a metric ton of interferences inducing devices and wonder why they have issues with their terminal, and blame the technology.

>>59480284
In my country, most of the terminals are wireless and use some licensed cellular band. Takes forever when you're out of coverage, but works very well otherwise.

>>59478499


It's companies being slow to adopt. We have a shit ton more businesses than europe, so its slower due to the volume.

>>59478499

My contactless cards were replaced with chips. We're not behind. We're moving backward.

At this point I use Apple Pay and cash. Chip and signature takes too fucking long.

>>59480335
those are mainly used for home delivery service like restaurant here.

>>59480284
meanwhile here in europe everyone and their grandmother has ethernet cheap as fuck and even fucking food trailers and temporary market stands have a regular internet connection (wired ethernet or mobile wireless) for their cashier machines.

>>59479739
Sure. On Friday the accountant comes up and hands me an envelope with my check and a quick breakdown of my hours. I then go to the bank the next day and insert the check into the ATM, then have the ATM dispense a hundred of it back as cash. Das it. There's no real benefit. It just feels nice putting a piece of paper that represents a week's work into the machine.

>>59480426
>There's no real benefit. It just feels nice putting a piece of paper that represents a week's work into the machine.

You're so cucked by technology you don't even realise how horrifying this is. It's just like a rat in a lab pushing a button to receive food.

>>59478649
The words you write for the amount is what is accepted. If the box has 20.00 but the check says thirty two 00/100 they check is worth 32 dollars.

Most places I've worked at in the US will try to set you up on direct deposit, but your first paycheck might actually be a check (if you get paid in the first week and haven't had a chance to set up direct deposit for example). I've found DD to be faster than checks depending on when my companies ran their payments. Two to three days earlier sometimes, and even at 12:01AM on the day I was supposed to get paid.

>>59478499
>In Europe
Speak for yourself. I've never met a single person using that shit here in Germany.

>>59480364
>We're moving backward

We wait to see what's actually worth spending hundreds of millions of dollars to switch too.
Both the chip thing and contactless cards are stupid for their own reasons.
Most of the contactless transactions in Europe are limited to very small amounts.

>>59478462
FUCK OFF

This is /g/, computer security is important. Stop being retarded.

>>59480579
Well, you'd have to leave your mother's basement for that, so not surprising I guess. Anyway, plenty of Germans proving you wrong in this thread anon.

>>59480515
>Horrifying
Now you're just being silly.
It's just one of those quirks that everyone has, like how the sound of a key clicking through an ignition is satisfying, or how the act of shredding physical paper is satisfying.

>>59480654
???
What shops even accept mobile payments? Maybe all those "Germans" in this thread are Achmeds in Berlin.

>>59480241
>I don't believe you, actually. Mostly because this would be an incentive for shop owners to split payments into multiple smaller payments, which obviously isn't happening.

It's still the same 3% no matter how many transactions you split it into, retard.

>>59480548
direct deposit is infinitely superior to cheques, I dont know why some guys I work with refuse to get it set up.

>pay stub is emailed to you the day before you get paid
>you get paid on time every week guaranteed, dont have to track down your boss to get a physical cheque, or go back to the office/place of work on off days or after you're done for the day
>electronic record of everything that can be searched and shown in seconds if there's any discrepancies

>>59478499

Shit, I haven't seen checks in 15 years or so, and we got out of them pretty late.

>>59478499
>>59478523
>>59478570
>>59480761
I pity all of you

yes, chip readers just suck in America.

CC companies force businesses to use them by saying "oh, if something happens (fraud related) and you don't use a chip reader, we aren't doing jack shit about it"

so businesses probably don't even know how they work

the chip readers themselves are usually slow since they have to detect the chip and load the appropriate program since it's not standard across all cards. the US is ~10 years behind most other countries in the world with this. (SAD!)

the problem also means that cards still have both chips and magnetic strips, which means the "security" from the chips is useless until full adoption is used by businesses.

>>59480810
And I hate you and people like you.

>>59480873
Love you too bby

>>59480883
wan sum fucc?

>>59480732
I wish my pay stub was mailed to me. I had to go pick it up at the store each week still. I'd grab a pack of pay stubs each month.

>>59478462
Contactless is a gigantic security risk, dipshit.

Chip cards aren't slow, you're just a fucking retard.

>>59480967
Chip is slow in the US, fast in Yurop. Mental capabilities have nothing to do with it, the implementation just sucks here.

>>59478462
>can't even implement chip technology properly
>wants to go contactless
LMAO, it will be an even bigger mess. Just stick with your ancient technology, Americans are too stupid to understand anything else.

Works just fine in my state, ya dumb haoles. Fuck that Filipino restaurant that has a minimum charge though, that shit should be illegal.

>>59478499
At my high school job (2 years ago), I received a physical check which I would cash using my phone.

Shit was sloooooooooooow.

>>59480967
Nah dude time it takes most readers to process the chip is insane. I blame it on most places still hooking their POS systems through the phone line. We have ours hooked through the network and it handles chip cards in seconds

>>59480732
>>electronic record of everything that can be searched and shown in seconds if there's any discrepancies
>stating a con, implying it's a pro

>>59481126
If the minimum charge is more than $10, it violates the agreement that said restaurant has with the credit card companies.

>>59478536
The average /g/ user, everyone. This board is trash.

>>59478499
What the fuck I love the United States now,

>In Europe, we've had chips for the last 15 years but everyone is using contactless and/or mobile paymen

Let me guess you are from Sweden? No this is not common in the rest of the continent t: Sweden YES fag also fuck off with that MUH BANK ID FOR EVERYTHING

DON'T BE TRACKED, PAY CASH.
>DON'T BE TRACKED, PAY CASH!
DON'T BE TRACKED, PAY CASH.
>DON'T BE TRACKED, PAY CASH!

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>>59478499
>there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check, as in, the employer writes out an actual check which you have to cash in.
As opposed to what?
Letting your employer store all of your banking information so when they get hacked you lose everything as well because you are to lazy to do your own banking?

>>59481624

I think it comes down to the following:
>Americans don't trust the government
>Europeans don't trust each other

Why else would their movie theaters need assigned seating?

>>59481624

You realize they can't actually hack you just from knowing your account number, right?

>>59481761
Anyone with your bank account and a routing number can make a withdrawal electronically via ACH. You can also dispute these charges and get your money back, guaranteed, at least within 14 days.

>>59481803

Every time I learn something new about banks I just get more disgusted. Surely you can't just pull funds from a private bank account in the US

>>59481624
The only "banking" information is my account number. They already have my social security number and address and they use this to send in tax information.

>>59478462
>wanting to go back to magnetic tapes

>>59481561
Not Swedish.

>>59481561
This is very common in france

>>59481843
Make
America
Great
Again

>>59481832
The law and industry practices require consent, but practically if you know the account number and routing number, you can do a pull.

>>59481561
Not him, but it's common here (Netherlands) too. Even when I travel to other countries which I do a lot because of my work, most places accept at least contactless payment. Most convenience stores accept mobile payment these days.

>>59478818

Because not everyone has a bank account, and you can bring the check to the bank that printed it and get cash without a bank account. That's what I did when I had my first job. I didn't have an account, so I would just cash them.

>>59481870
>>59481832
>>59481803
What the hell is a routing number? I don't even think I have a routing number (not american, obviously).

>inb4 it's what you use on your checks

Checks need to die already.

>>59481927
>2017
>not having a bank account
Have you tried not being a nigger?

>>59481929
A routing number is printed on checks, but it's also used for direct deposit. Essentially, a routing number identifies an institution, e.g. a bank or credit union.

Large banks will typically have one routing number per state:
https://www.wellsfargo.com/help/routing-number/

Smaller banks or credit unions will typically only have one routing number.

>or cut chips and just go contactless
Bad idea. I don't want to have to carry around an RFID/NFC blocking wallet.

>>59479112
Looks like someone hasn't been too Japan

>>59481951

Bro, I was 16 with no idea how to be an adult yet working at a farm. I was surprised they were even advanced enough to print checks. I wasn't going to go through the hassle of making an account just to get $50 in my pocket. Plus then I would have to have at least $20 of it in the bank at all times.

(This was my opinion as a teenager. I make too much money to cash every check now)

>>59481951
>cant read
Wew. Must suck being a nigger

>>59481967
Okay, I've only ever used my account number and IBAN for international stuff, and I'm fairly sure no one can make a withdrawal by knowing this. Even with my social security number, it's pretty limited what they can do other than pretending to be me, but for all services in Norway you need bank ID anyway which you'd basically need to take my phone and force me to tell you my password + phone password to use.

I need to authenticate and verify any online transactions with my card this way too, so even if you steal my card and forge my signature, it's not enough.

>>59481929
If you have a bank account you have one. It's what you use for direct deposit dumbass.

>>59481991
>16
I opened my first bank account at 12. Until then I had one handled by my parents. I got a limited debit card at 12 too.

>inb4 but you're young
I'm turning 32 this year.

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>>59481929
>What the hell is a routing number?

>>59481967 explains it. But here's a visual aid for the thirteen-year-olds in here that have never seen a check.

>>59482028
US shit internally is different from international transfers.

>>59481617
This guy gets it

>>59482041
You don't in my country. All you need is account number (+ IBAN if it's a foreign account). See >>59482028

Wait... americans don't have tap?

I'm in Canada and fucking everywhere has tap

>>59482054
>I opened my first bank account at 12.

Not legal in the US. Unless it's a custodial account with your parent's name on it, too.

So let me get this straight, you can make a withdrawal from any account by knowing two numbers that are printed on a check?

These numbers exist (primarily) because of checks and how they work. On top of this more or less legacy system, American banks have bootstrapped direct deposit.

So every fucking check contains personal information anyone can use to steal money from each other, because of an outdated legacy payment system that somehow people ITT think is superior and inherently safer than direct deposit (how it works outside the US).

What the flying fuck?

>>59482094
>you're not legally allowed to own money until a certain age

LAND OF THE FREEEEEEEEE

HOME OF THE BRAAAAAVE

>>59482090
They do, it's just that people/business owners prefer to swipe and sign.

>>59479859
>making withdrawals from your savings account

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Werks on my machines.

>>59478462
>He's not Australian
>He doesn't use PayPass

>>59482094
So you were old enough to have a job, but not old enough to manage your own personal savings?

The US is pretty fucked up bro.

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>>59482090
>Wait... americans don't have tap?

If by "tap" you mean RFID contactless payments, yes. AMEX had pilot programs over a decade ago and it was becoming more common until the legislation requiring chip and signature EMV.

>>59482134
>What the flying fuck?

Americans trust each other much more than popular media portrays. Check fraud was never very common. So why switch to an ultra-secure system if people aren't abusing the existing one?

>>59482134
This

In the rest of the world the only thing you can do with an account number is make a deposit

>>59478536
Watch Catch Me If You Can with Tom Hanks

>>59482267
>Americans trust each other much more than popular media portrays. Check fraud was never very common. So why switch to an ultra-secure system if people aren't abusing the existing one?
I know this is the reason why the US were slow in adopting the chip, because the US never saw the magnetic strip skimmers that popped up everywhere in Europe 10 years ago.

But the argument in this thread here seems to primarily be about not trusting the security (i.e. the fellow that was concerned about his job being hacked and his details stolen, or the other guy that believed digital transactions to be inherently unsafe).

I know some of the arguments are privacy reasons, which I totally buy when it comes to using money... But for your income, employers already report what you earn to your IRS anyway, right? So whether you get paid by check, cash, direct deposit, handjobs, coconuts, the government is still notified what you earn.

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>>59478462
Where I'm at everything is Chip and PIN. If that fails it reverts to swiping but can still ask you for your PIN. on Swipe only cards like Diner's the machine asks you to confirm the card number by entering in missing digits.

I'm happy everything is Chip and PIN, the amount of card theft and card cloning is fucking ludicrous.

Contactless is advancing but is limited to around $20, some banks give you a contactless card but don't fucking enable the thing, sometimes it asks you to put your PIN in and sometimes not etc. Oh and contactless transactions only show up like a week later on the statements of account, so you could have hundreds of dollars pending processing yet your account balance still shows green.

I just wish it was consistent.

>>59481561
Slovakia here. Literally everyone has it. Even old people manage to use it. Accept the fact that your country is a shithole when it comes to paying with credit cards.

>>59482134
Where did anyone say a paycheck was safer than direct deposit?

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I lived in the states for many years. I complained to my bank that my 15$ WOW password auth and chipped cards from my native country were way more secure than any of their options.

the real problem is fear of making things "harder" or being seen as user unfriendly. That and my inner cynic suspect banks in the US secretly like being able to write-off fraud, pass the cost to the customer if they actually lose anything and then sell them "anti fraud insurance" rather than actually address the problem.

The part I didn't understand is that the US has a LOT of banks. My country only has a few, heavily regulated. the US has such a multitude than standardization is... a challenge.

>>59482408
See >>59481624

>>59478499
I'm a contracter and I actually prefer to recieve physical checks. It makes it easier to keep track of who's paid me, who I'm still waiting payment from, and if the amount of hours paid for is correct. Some of the companies I work for so offer direct deposit but I just prefer the physical check. I also keep all of them for each year so that I know my taxes will be straight, last year I had 9 W-2 and 4 1099 lol.

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>/g/ goes full autismo about MUH PRIVACY to the point of used stunted OS and backward technologies
>However they don't mind paying with digital media leaving a huge trail and sufficient logs of your transactions to virtually every single government that request it
You guys don't make sense at all

>>59482500
>/g/ is one person

>>59482514
>Missing the fucking entire thread

>>59482538
>all of /g/ is in this one thread

>>59482155

Honestly this is how it works in most countries. Children don't get financial independence until they come of age. You guardians have every right to manage your finances. Obviously a leftover from back when children working long hours while at home still was a thing, not meant for daddy to steal the money from your paper route.

>>59482477
Contractors in my country bill their clients for their services. I use an online billing tool that automates recurring bills and keeps record and stuff of my clients. As far as direct deposit goes, I frequently log into my online bank and look at the registered transactions there.

Ten years ago, I manually billed my clients. It was a pain, and I had to write down everything because pink slips and bills and everything would get lost.

>>59479237
I always keep 100$ on me in case of emergencies plus if the card somehow doesnt work and I need to pay for something.

Why would getting the money put directly into your bank account prevent you from having physical money?

>>59482550
>Moving the goalposts
You're not even trying at this point

>>59482570
What fucking goalposts have I moved? Quit being a dumbass.

>>59482563
There's nothing wrong in not having rights as a child, but anon specifically said that he had a job. I find it very strange that it would be legal to work (for an income) but the government doesn't consider you mature enough to manage your own economy.

I can see how it is a leftover from child labour days though, but seriously, in the US you're allowed to drive (and presumably own a car) at age 16, but you're not allowed to have a bank account?

>>59482594
I had a bank account but needed one of my parents as a custodian till I was 18. I couldn't even cash a damned paycheck without a parent present.

>>59482500
Do you seriously no understand how finance works

>>59482500
>being this paranoid
Oh gee, I wonder who would want to know that I ate at Pizza Hut yesterday evening or that I bought a Nintendo Switch a few days ago. Unless someone is on a watchlist for murder or something similar, this behavior is unjustified. In that situation I suppose he or she has bigger problems than the possibility of being targeted for surveillance.

>>59482590
>but but le /g/ is not one person
>but but all of /g/ is not in this thread bawww
Stop replying brainlet you're making yourself look bad

>>59478462
Lol. Contact-less payments (which have been around for years in the EU) are literally a 2 second operation. And chipped transactions take 5 seconds or so, depending on whether you fat finger the PIN or not.

Your system is just shit, doesn't mean that chip+pin is a bad thing.

>>59482627
That's weird.

I mean, I had my parents as custodians until I was 15 or 16, when I was legally allowed to have my own account. From age 13, I had a visa electron which basically is a regular debit card with a couple of restrictions (it was a limit to how much I could withdraw, for example, and I was never allowed to overcharge the card/account). I had this card until I was 16, when I was allowed to have a full-fledged account and debit card. Still some restrictions until I was 18, but it was my own account.

As for credit cards, there's a age limit of 18 to get one (also with restrictions on how much you can charge it), but I honestly believe it would be better for today's youth to raise that limit to 20.

I honestly believe that I learned more about managing my personal economy by getting more responsibilities early on. This way money was a real thing to me, even though it was on an account. It was only my money and I was forced to take responsibility.

>>59482675
I fail to see the issue with anything I've said. /g/ is definitely not one person and this thread is definitely not all of /g/.

>>59478570
She's a liar! There's no way that's true.

The only time I've ever received a check, is as a stipend at school. And even then, cashing it was a pain because nobody at the bank handles those things.. Oh lord.

>>59482697
Don't they pass the blame for fraud with chip+pin onto the consumers rather than the store itself? That was my understanding of the whole situation. I know a store around here suddenly enabled their chips early (chain store), while the other stores are still swipe. They got robbed and were liable for it because they didn't have chip+pin. Or rather just chip. I only have to sign if my transaction is over $50. I don't even know what my pin is.

>>59482725
She's not lying, you dumbass.

>>59479956
Hold on. You're saying there are people _without_ bank accounts? Holy shit. I think I had mine before I was even born :/

>>59482748
Nope. Bank takes all the blame. Never heard of anything else.

>>59482725
>She's a liar! There's no way that's true.

Plenty of posters in this thread prove you wrong, anon.

>>59482748
>They got robbed and were liable for it because they didn't have chip+pin
That's utterly crazy! No, they're not liable. The card company are held liable in .eu, which is why they pushed hard on the chip+pin thing when skimming became a wide-spread issue.

>>59481561
Poland here, which is almost a third world country
i haven't seen a chip-less card in like 10 years

>>59482421
>all your banking information
Literally all they need for a direct deposit is a bank account number and a name

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>>59482751
>>59482783

>>59478818
Honestly. If someone told an employer here (EU) that they don't have a bank account, they'd probably suspect you of fraud or some other shenanigans. I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone not getting paid via bank transfer directly.

>>59482830
Jokes are funny, anon.

>>59478828
There's nothing 'normal' about that. You've just been led to believe that.

>>59482830
Oh.

>>59482848
Same here (Norway). Not having a bank account usually means that you are convicted of fraud and/or have been bankrupt. The only people I know that get paid without a direct bank transfer are foreigners who receive their first pay check before they've gone through the paper mill of registration forms and drug addicts who do jobs here and there as part of our welfare program and for various reasons don't have bank accounts.

>>59479197
I live in 3rd world country and it takes literally 5 secs.

No we fucking can't.

Sooner or later in a few years more/later we might get/have rfid chips in our fucking skin anyway. Hell there's probably at least a little over a hundred people with rfid chips in them willingly or unknowingly.

It's all part of the master plan to enslave and control us even fucking further and more than than they already fucking do.

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>>59482829
GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE SHILL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>59478828
What kind of Jewish tricks are these a check takes a few business days to clear at worst and achieve transfers are free. 2% is far greater than the borrow rate for 25 days.

>>59482934
With US levels of incompetency and/or greed, I honestly doubt enslavement will happen, at least this way.

cash is king. fuck the plastic jew.

>>59481624
Dear lord. Is this what you've been told? All I had to give my employer was my name (good start when working somewhere, where they already know your name), and your account number. With said number, you can't do anything except deposit money, which is what I want when I work somewhere.

>>59479026
Pin puts the liability on the user in a way that signature does not. I don't use anything with a pin except for withdrawaling cash.

>>59483078
In europe, afaik, the liability is always with the bank. Signatures are not secure.

>>59483078
If I remember correctly, signatures are no longer considered a reliable proof of authentication in EU, because they are so easily forged. There were plenty of lawsuits in various European countries where credit card companies even showed that the signatures were most likely the customers, but because there was 0.001% uncertainty the customers would usually win.

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>>59483065

Sure, bud, sure. You missed the point, though.

>>59481751
Apparently Americans don't trust their employers either:
>>59481624
>>59479651

Also
>Europeans don't trust each other
Slavs and roma people have effectively killed any trust Europeans had among each other.

>>59483102
That's the point. If it's chip/pin it defaults to me being liable how did Jamal have your pin. Chip+sign is na I didn't sign that and on the bank/cc company. This isn't about convenience it's about shifting liability.

>>59483129
See >>59482376

Your income is already reported to evil Jewish reptilian overlords, no matter if you receive a direct deposit or have to cash in your checks manually.

>>59483166
If you go to the police and say that Jamal robbed you and threatened you to tell him your PIN, the bank/card company is liable.

If you file a police report saying that you are the victim of identity theft, the bank/cc is liable and need to prove that you are lying.

>>59483217
I've got better things to do than go to the police station. When I lost my cc last time and had unexpected charges on my card they sent me a letter where I checked which stuff wasn't mine then signed.
I don't want to deal with the police.

>>59478993
I think it's more of a concern if it's for weapons rather than food

>>59483363
For you.

>>59483320
>I've got better things to do than go to the police station
You're still considered liable with chip + sign, and need to file a police report, so I don't really see the difference?

>When I lost my cc last time and had unexpected charges on my card they sent me a letter where I checked which stuff wasn't mine then signed.
They do the same here with stuff that is obviously suspicious. Last time I lost my card I just called in and had it invalidated. After two weeks I got a letter where they said that such and such transactions were made in the time period right before and asked me to verify if they were mine or not.

Case in point is that there is no shift in liability.

>>59478462
>what is NFC

>>59483389
Except I didnt.

>>59483414
Except you didn't what?

>>59483424
Have to file a police report.

>>59483442
Neither did I, see my example.

>>59483013
They still get this information when they get an image of a cancelled check. Giving a business your bank account info for direct deposit is no different then depositing checks and them getting images of the cancelled checks with your bank account info on it.

>>59483452
If your card was chip/pin you would have.

>>59478499
Usually, when I get a job it takes about one pay period for direct deposit to take effect so I usually get my first payment as a check. You can deposit checks by taking a picture of them with your bank application so it's not really a big deal, but direct deposit is really where it's at.

>>59483490
No, my card was chip+pin and I didn't.

>>59478499
Any serious job has direct deposit, but for children's jobs it's easier to just print checks. You can also deposit checks with your phone, so it's not a big deal.

>>59483500
K. That's completely against the point of chip and pin but sure.

>>59483518
Except it isn't. The point of chip and pin is that it is inherently more secure. The alleged shift of liability is only in your head, there is no legal difference between knowing a personal PIN code or using a signature as means of authentication (you can look this up if you don't trust me).

The reason why EU has chip+pin is because 10 years ago there was a wave of skimmers that would read the magnetic strip and people would either stand behind you and look over your shoulder or use cameras or fake keypads to get your PIN code.

>>59478536
There are rules that need to be followed when filling a check, if any of those rules aren't followed the bank will nullify it.
Like, no blank spaces, you have to put the numbered value between #'s, the written value part (wrriten numbers) need to have a line across the blank space left, it must have a signature on the front, also on the back and a contact number as if the bank need to confirm, it would call that number and the person will confirm the witdraw.
You need to have your ID if the check is directed to you and many other stuff, must places does not accept checks, but if they do, you have to fill a huge sign up form so they can track you down legally if your check end up being a fraud.

It is a huge hassle using check thats why the debit card exists, and if you watch that movie with Leo DiCaprio and Tom Hanks("Catch me if you can" I believe is the name) you will know how they get where they are now.

>>59478921
You believe that chip+pin can't be cloned?

>>59478955
What about biometry? Most ATM here in Brazil uses it.

>>59483642
Does it work very well? Like when it rains and you're wet and stuff? Honest question, seeing how in my experience thumbprint readers are notoriously unreliable.

>>59483642
Biometrics are rare in the US. We have it on phones but that's by voluntary choice. In every day life, taking of fingerprints/iris scans is very rare. US visitors who are not permanent residents are subject to fingerprint collection on every visit. On arrest your fingerprints are taken. People with government clearances or in the finance industry have their fingerprints taken, but for the everyday american, outside smartphones, biometrics aren't a thing.

>>59483677
>US visitors who are not permanent residents are subject to fingerprint collection on every visit.
At least these scans are quite quick. My main issue with travelling to the US is the cases where the CBP officer is having a bad day and taking it out on my by asking a bunch of silly questions that take forever.

>>59483713
I have NEXUS (tl;dr US took my fingerprints, Canada took my eye scans, both liked the cut of my jib and determined me "low risk") and usually now with CBSA it's no questions asked but the land entry officers are twenty questions and coming back to the US I've gotten shit when they haven't had photos of my checked baggage (then I get deferred to a United rep until they do) and the one time I returned to the US from Canada by land they took over an hour to search my vehicle.

Customs can be quite silly, and especially in the visitor lanes they can be testy. I've heard that it's gotten quite a bit worse under trump in all lanes.

>>59483737
My colleague got this TSA low risk thing (by a system fault, because foreigners aren't really supposed to get them) and apparently that works on reentry too. The last time I went to the US, I first had to fill out that form, then went to the automated machine thing (because I'm reentering for the 6th time on the same ESTA travel authorization and this is supposed to be faster) and answering the same 20 questions only on the machine. And then the CBP guy is just supposed to stamp the receipt I get from the machine, but he stopped me (probably because I was tired from 13 hours of traveling) and asked some of the same fucking questions. Almost lost my shit.

>I've heard that it's gotten quite a bit worse under trump in all lanes.
I'm going back in may to attend GTC so I really hope not. I always spend at least 40-50 minutes at SFO just waiting to get through so I can pick up my luggage.

>>59483828
>My colleague got this TSA low risk thing (by a system fault, because foreigners aren't really supposed to get them)
Lel, it depends. Guaranteed is based off of permanent residency or citizenship in a number of countries + a check. Otherwise getting it is up to luck. Some people are guaranteed by frequent flyer status regardless of citizenship, but that's being sunset.

>The last time I went to the US, I first had to fill out that form, then went to the automated machine thing (because I'm reentering for the 6th time on the same ESTA travel authorization and this is supposed to be faster) and answering the same 20 questions only on the machine. And then the CBP guy is just supposed to stamp the receipt I get from the machine, but he stopped me (probably because I was tired from 13 hours of traveling) and asked some of the same fucking questions. Almost lost my shit.
Even with automated machine entry they repeat it for consistency. In the US when I use a Global Entry (low risk traveler) kiosk they say jack shit usually. When reentering US Customs preclearance from Canada they always ask me some questions about my visit, length of visit, etc. that I've already entered on the kiosk.

>I'm going back in may to attend GTC so I really hope not. I always spend at least 40-50 minutes at SFO just waiting to get through so I can pick up my luggage.
Generally waits are low but secondary and detaining has become worse, these are still well below 1% of the time but they're more ballbusty.

>>59481624
>americans don't even have IBANs
Jesus christ did someone trap your entire country in a time bubble 50 years ago forcing you to stop all technological progress forever?

>>59483890
>Some people are guaranteed by frequent flyer status regardless of citizenship, but that's being sunset.
I guess that's how then, he flies *a lot*.

>Even with automated machine entry they repeat it for consistency. In the US when I use a Global Entry (low risk traveler) kiosk they say jack shit usually. When reentering US Customs preclearance from Canada they always ask me some questions about my visit, length of visit, etc. that I've already entered on the kiosk.
Right, yeah, so it wasn't only the customs guy having a bad day, it's actually standard procedure.

>Generally waits are low but secondary and detaining has become worse, these are still well below 1% of the time but they're more ballbusty.
I see, well would most likely not affect me then I guess. Anyways, thanks for the chat.

>>59483937
in a shocking twist, a country 40 times larger with an extremely high number of banks will take longer to change standards that affect everyone than a number of countries the size of singular states with a low number of banks

>>59484132
40 times larger than what? Europe is 2% larger than the US
>a low number of banks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_Europe
Yeah right

>>59484321
Adoption is handled per-country.

>>59484386
28 european countries + like 30 other in the world that also use it implemented it and a single one can't, great point

>>59484450
SWIFT exists and that combined with the fact that the US is far less dependent on international transfers than European nations means there's no real reason for the US to adopt IBAN.

>>59485054
>Letting your employer store all of your banking information so when they get hacked you lose everything
>there's no real reason for the US to adopt IBAN

>>59485094
IBAN really doesn't solve the problem of consent or fraudulent transactions. It's basically a routing/account number (which the US uses) with a country code to uniquely identify the country to which an account belongs.

>>59485120
>IBAN really doesn't solve the problem of consent or fraudulent transactions
In what way it doesn't solve it? I could post mine here without even thinking about it, the only thing you can do with it is giving me money

>>59485184
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Aread
SEPA allows withdrawals under IBAN.

>>59485213
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
>corrected link

>>59485213
But that's not true, you can't withdraw money with only your IBAN, giving it to anyone doesn't pose any risk