Clean Energy and Trump

probably, he wants to use coal still in a "clean" manner

It won't because Trump will have no other choice but to support clean energy. If he doesn't it means those companies will flee to EUrope, China and Japan which means loss of tax revenue and jobs. Trump is a protectionist but he can't dictate what the markets do.

Also those jobs in the rust belt he promised to bring back? Those jobs aren't coming back, ever, no matter what he does. What needs to be done for those people is reeducation and reinsertion into other job markets.

Fracking is harmful to health and environment, oil sands are one of the most devastating an polluting activities on the planet. If Trump wants his territory to look like a Mad Max movie, that's his choice but people will impeach him before it happens and if they're bothered enough.

That's just a few random thoughts.

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Reminder that renewable energy would be perfectly viable if we simply consumed less energy in the first place.

But nope, gotta have my double fridge-freezer and 4K streaming with 4G.

>>57464359
You're changing the customer requirements, engineers aren't allowed to do that

I find it alarming that the green or clean energy people have basically become a religion of fanatics. Same thing happens around climate global warming all that malarkey.

>>57465527
Easy on that oil lobby kool aid Timmy.
You'll be wetting the bed again.

>>57465764
>Whinge about destroying the earth
>Cripple/ban nuclear
>Lobby for asinine regulations
>Give money to scams like SOLAR FUHREEKIN ROADWAYS
>Jizz over Teslas and hang on every word of Elon Musk
>Whine about foreign oil
>Block pipelines
>Latest fad is CELL TOWERS CAUSE CANCER OH NOOOOOOOOO
What a rational group of people.

>>57464205
Solar panel purchasing probably wont be subsidized by the US government any more.

N U C L E A R
U
C
L
E
A
R

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>Shut down the EPA and undo all environmental laws
>California turns into New Delhi

>>57464205
T H O R I U M
H
O
R
I
U
M

where it's at

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>>57465911
>tfw California has designated shitting streets

> considers energy independence a matter of national security
> wants to let the market be shortsighted enough to depend on an inherently finite resource for energy

You don't even have to buy into the hippie dippy bullshit to see why renewables are a superior technology.

>>57465527
Except this is a real fucking problem. This isn't about morality or spiritual warfare, this is about surviving another generation.

>>57464205
>How do you think Trump's presidency will affect the clean energy market?
In the US if it becomes unaffordable to do business here the companies will probably relocate to a country that is more favorable to them and then export their products to the US if it's cheap enough. If Trump puts tariffs on their products and causes it to be unaffordable they'll just leave the US

>>57465911
>>57465937
Please let Calexit happen.

>>57466022

California can't leave. It hates Florida too much to let it be the new head douche state.

>>57465822
>Whinge about destroying the earth
yep. i whinge.
>Cripple/ban nuclear
nuclear is good
>Lobby for asinine regulations
i like to feel safe
>Give money to scams like SOLAR FUHREEKIN ROADWAYS
doesn't seem technologically feasible. i haven't heard of this before.
>Jizz over Teslas and hang on every word of Elon Musk
Gotta hand it to him.. he has vision-- the other car manufacturers are catching up and the tesla line will remain a luxury line.
>Whine about foreign oil
oil is oil i don't care where it comes from. it all has the same problems
>Block pipelines
yeah because transporting it by train is sooo much better. I don't know why we're fighting this--other than to make a stand for something in climate change... it's just the wrong stand
>Latest fad is CELL TOWERS CAUSE CANCER OH NOOOOOOOOO
never heard of this

>>57466054
Then can't we give California back to Mexico so they'll leave the rest of the US alone?

>>57465527
>Expecting the media to report accurately on boring scientific reports without turning it into doom-mongering political clickbait

>>57466097
It already is Mexico.

Trump has basically stated that he doesn't believe in climate change, he has also indicated that he will bring the coal industry back somehow. He's probably the worst candidate imaginable for renewables or clean energy production. It's good for other countries though, he'll cause our smaller businesses to leave or close up shop and other countries will pick them up.

At least Trump supporters got to stick it to "the man" though.

>>57465527
The quicker people are reliantly on oil, the quicker the arabs go bankrupt. There is literally no reason why you shouldn't be supporting renewable or nuclear energy.

>>57465876
STANDING

>>57464205
>>>/biz/

>>57466166
Thank fuck. We could coast on coal for the next 200 years.

>>57466198
We could also coast on natural gas which is (currently)cheaper, cleaner, and overall safer to acquire and utilize. Natural gas is the reason coal mining died off, we have more natural gas than any other country on earth. We do not need coal it is redundant and also a heavy burden on the environment in a number of ways

>>57466166
The reason why he's against climate change has nothing to do with the efficiency of power sources. It has to do with regulation. He believes regulations in the US are overly restrictive and that they're choking businesses that would otherwise be able to thrive. Discrediting climate change is merely one aspect of his hatred of regulation in the US.

>>57466198
Do you enjoy being bathed in radioactive soot anon?

>>57466239
Coal is regulated for a reason. It produces a ton of hazardous waste and the effects of coal mining can ruin ecosystems for many decades.

>>57466241
I enjoy having a natural fuel resource able to power the entire country without having to pay other countries so a group of cunts can pretend they are environmentally friendly.

>>57466234
BUT BUT MUH JOBBBBBSSSS

>>57466299
Can i set up my coal plant in your backyard? Don't want to let those cunts win right?

>>57466320
Coal mining would be automated anyway. It isn't 1916.

>>57466339
It's a good thing there are other more efficient cleaner alternatives to that dying resource and industry.

>>57464359
>tfw live in 120 year old house with no thermal insulation, but that has two boilers and furnaces
feels toasty.

>>57466329
You could use the backyard argument with nuclear reactors. There is no reason you would have to put this in someones back yard.

the stock markets will rally as rich republicans cash in wherever they can. the tax cuts and deregulation will ruin the world. trump won't do anything about clean energy.

>>57466350
Yes, but it's good to know it's still there if and when we need it.

>>57466378
God forbid.

>>57466350
It could also serve as a backup method for energy production if we ever actually need it for some reason. They just don't need to be running right now.

>>57466377
>the stock markets will rally
Not around renewable energy though. All of the renewable energy companies took a massive dive since election night. Trump is going to make them unprofitable in the short term, dead in the long term. Remember, the vast majority of renewable energy companies source most of their components and materials from outside the US, mostly from CHYNA. Even if Trump decides to push for domestic renewable energy, those companies will go bust from having to produce or import their products from overseas thanks to China's monopoly on the solar cell and electrical manufacturing department, as well as rare earth metals used from many permanent magnets.

Today at school I was gang-banged, and when I tried to tell authorities, they all laughed at me, said that Trump is president so they can do what they want, and then one cop even forced his fingers into me. I cried and tried to go home, but had to hide in the bushes as I witnessed my LGBTQIADG+ friends chained up being herded into vans to go to concentration camps. My neighbour set a womyn of color's house on fire while the cops applauded.

100% atomic is possible now
esp thorium lifter
remember energy should be looked at in terms of human flourishing
not some delusino of impact
humans modify dangerous environemnt to be comfy
and flourish when energy is cheap and plentiful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY

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Lads, I just want houses to run on solar or win, or hell even Nuclear already. I'm tired of our planet getting polluted D:

>>57466474
>not lighting your home with solar tubes during the day and lit with LEDs from a solar-recharged battery bank at night
>not using geothermal temperature control to cool/heat your home
>not using sunlight to warm up the tap water during the day and thermally isolating the pipes to prevent excessive heat loss

>>57466540
I would if I could anon, I would if I could. Hopefully, in the not too distant future, all you just said will be a reality.

>>57466168
This, Nuke reactors and solar are the way to go. The tech has improved in leaps and bounds and is a lot safer, especially if they go with the thorium ones. Choking out oil robs the Saudis of their money and thus influence.

>>57465527
People are upset because interest groups have made climate science into a political issue.

>>57466552
Dude, just buy a bunch of glass hemispheres/domes, drill holes in your roof/ceiling, and put reflective aluminum ducting for the solar tubes. They cost about a thirty dollars in raw material per solar tube. Install some white LEDs and a light sensor on the inside of your piping and hook them up to a Raspberry Pi for automatic light control/adjustment. That's another forty per solar tube and $40 for a single Rasp Pi per four solar tubes (but completely optional). Installing solar panels is a different matter, so I'll assume you're hooking them up to the existing electrical system in your home.
Geothermal is more expensive because you need copper pipes, a digger for your backyard, and some wall installations to replace your HVAC, but it costs $0 to maintain over ten years until it's time to replace the pipes underground.
And solar-heated water has been a thing for decades, some people just use see-through plastic pipes surrounded by a catering tray for this. It's the insulating that costs money.
The amount you save over time thanks to these changes is enough to buy you a GTX 1070 every year, especially if you live in a hot area where HVAC is a necessity.

>>57466635
Sounds like a lot of work and technical know how. Maybe when I have more time on my hands I'll look into it, sounds interesting.

>>57466184
ON THE EDGE

>>57466009
and abandoned a 300 million + market? lets put it this way, china steals whatever you make there and put there, yet everyone still tries to enter that market for potential profit.

>>57464327
chinese companies are moving to rust belt to take advantage of cheaper transportation cost. Check out Fuyao glass America.

>>57465527
This

FUCK I mean the second you point out how harmful mining for lithium is they go ape-shit on you

>>57466944
It's misleading to say America doesn't manufacture things anymore. We actually have an assload of domestic manufacturing, probably more stuff is made here than at any point but the thing is manufacturing is typically automated now so there's fewer jobs and the few jobs that are available require a technical background. Regardless of what Trump does low skill manufacturing jobs will not be coming back without cutting regulations on labor and wages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

>>57466460
>human flourishing
>creating potentially hazardous conditions for developed and developing nations with air pollution from combustion engines, *potential* nuclear disasters, and lithium and coal mining operations destroying potentially viable livable land.

>>57466166
>At least Trump supporters got to stick it to "the man" though.
Hold on a minute. He has brought good points though, many of middle America, especially in rust belt states have lost everything and they are struggling. Not all Trump supporters, except for /pol/, didn't just vote for him to "stick it to the man", they voted for him because well the current regime just wasn't getting it done for them and it seemed like they were outright ignoring them.

Now, why in 2016 you'd try in bring the coal industry, is beyond me.

>>57467182
Bcuz dey took er Jerbs

>>57467197
That's a serious complaint that middle America has and you really shouldn't make fun of that.

But there are certain jobs that have just been deprecated and coal jobs are on them.

>>57465992
Way to go straight to histrionics. I mean, jesus, "surviving another generation"? We aren't in danger of dying out from the projected global warming or climate change. All you're going to see is damage to coastal communities, mass migration in poor countries and shifting arable land.

It will present new problems and new opportunities. The only people who should be flipping the fuck out are the people who own skyscrapers in Manhattan or beach front property anywhere.

>>57467182
Hillary was not a good candidate but part of her platform was modeled after Bernie Sanders' platform. She planned to expand infrastructure and make college available to everyone including people in poorer areas to help them get jobs or create jobs. Trump's "plan" is basically to make everyone about as cheap as H1Bs

>>57464205
nothing wrong with coal, hippie

if we don't burn it, china will

>>57467254
And China is a god damned hell hole that is covered in smog and the people are 5"2 because of it.

>>57465527
>become
they always were, since it was founded on faulty science

>>57464327
Pretty much this.
Trump is too short-sighted to make the logical leap that everyone else can be protectionist too.
And if he tries it, we'll all lose out.
Economics isn't a 0-sum game so protectionism outside of essential security interests will lower everyone's quality of life in the long-term.
Hopefully his advisers will talk sense to him.

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>>57467265
>the people are 5"2 because of it.

>>57467246
She was never gonna make college free and making college free make college worse and how are you gonna pay for that.

Also, you can't walk up to the 41 year old plant worker, tell him that his job is being taken from him but he shouldn't worry because he can take 4 years out of his life to learn a new profession.

>>57467279
Are you familiar with the term "outlier"?

>>57467281
One of the people who does get higher education becomes an executive at some company and they hire the factory worker(s) who were displaced. It wont happen immediately unfortunately but investments in education have a tendency to pay off rather well.

>>57467343
Chinese people who were born and raised in cities are actually around the average height of europeans and americans. The short chinese thing is because rural peasants and older folk lived through multiple famines as children and young adults.

Pollution doesn't make you short, it just gives you cancer. Malnutrition in adolescence makes you short. Funny enough shorter people have a lowered risk of cancer, as do people who have survived famines.

>>57467377
>Malnutrition in adolescence makes you short

So this is why I'm a manlet then ;_;

>>57467080
thorium is 150% safe and can be used to burn off older radioactive waste

>>57466284
While they're mining it, sure, but if and when they stop they are mandated to immediately reclaim the area. When I say reclaim, I mean they put literally everything back to the way it was before they started mining it. It's really quite impressive.

>>57466234
They're bouncing back and forth right now, there are a lot of companies that are opting for coal at the moment and coal traffic has gone back to usual levels as a product. Natural gas remains stable.

>>57467567
Would companies still do that without regulations in place?

>>57464205
It will force them to actually fucking compete. So they will start doing shit faster.

>>57467589
Is that a relevant question? America has the cleanest coal in the world, not only in the coals physical contents, but also in the process of extraction and transportation. Because all the infrastructure is set, and because it's so efficient it's also the lowest cost per ton. That's why for a short while we were shipping thermo to China until West Coast liberals decided to put an end to it. Ironically China is now burning their grossly inferior coal and massively polluting the whole world in doing so.

Now back to the question: No, they wouldn't but there are regulations in place now, which are to be adhered to and will continue to be adhered to. Furthermore because the US is such a powerhouse you can bypass the necessity of regulation in China by promoting seaborne coal and ensuring that not only do their emissions dwindle but that they no longer have to mine their own coal. In doing so you manage to promote a dying industry until the people who have heavily invested into pensions get to enjoy their retirement instead of nixxing what may be close to a million interrelated jobs.

>>57467665
>Is that a relevant question?
With a president that is advocating that we return to using coal who is apparently considering appointing a climate change denier to the EPA? Absolutely, it most definitely is.

>America has the cleanest coal in the world
And it still puts out a fuckton of pollution

>there would be regulations in place
God I hope so. Sadly the republicans have everything so they can propose and pass legislation.

>by doing so you manage to promote a dying industry
An industry won't go away if you're propping it up.

>>57467281
>making college free make college worse and how are you gonna pay for that.
I live in a country where education is free.
Schools and universities receive money from the government so they can hire teachers and professors, maintain the buildings and buy equipment.
Now universities often want to buy more expensive toys (lab equipment is expensive in all fields)
And for that, we seek funding. Funding comes from corporations that want a writeoff and support an education that could benefit them when people get the education.
This means the market dictate what kind of education a lot of students can take.
Obviously there will still be people who will take useless degrees and we let them because it doesn't cost the university anything (women's studies doesn't require lab equipment).

Now we also go the extra mile and give money to students who live away from their parents, so someone like me was able to quit a well paying job and study for a couple of years without having any debt.
I personally would be fine with getting this as a loan, but who says no to free money?

>>57467567
In the meantime the species that live there get run off and the area doesn't fully rebound for years. Covering the landscape with grass and trees doesn't necessarily bring back reptiles, mammals, amphibians, bugs, birds, bacteria, etc that were once there. Only time can fix that.

>>57464327
>>57467273
Europe, china, etc already have those jobs. The only reason we have those jobs is the government subsidies (probably the only reason Europe has those jobs too.)

>>57467884
Actually there are a lot of reserve practices on site, as such animals actually thrive and retreat there for protection as it is illegal to kill animals on a minesite, which are actually huge plots of land most of which remains untouched until a pit closure. So animals are largely unaffected and if anything to some degree protected while still being able to graze.

>>57464327
As correct as you are, the american people won't do shit. They're still hung up over muslims and black people.

>>57464359
No it wouldn't.

While we could easily create enough solar and energy to meet demand on paper, in reality we don't have the energy storage technology to even out the swings. We will always need a stable, predictable, adjustable energy source. Like, say FUCKING NUCLEAR.

>>57466100
But the scientific reports are far scarier than what the media reports. If they reported the actual situation, nobody would believe them because it's too outlandish.

>>57465911
Even if he did, california wouldn't actually change. Their state level controls are stricter than the EPA's.

>>57468046
Good point. Only the republican states would be directly affected probably.

>>57467567
Unpoisoning the water supply would be pretty impressive, yes.

>>57467831
Where do you live?

In the US college tuition is incredibly costly unless you're obtaining an entry level degree from a community college. We're talking $40,000 for tuition alone which is astronomical considering you're not guaranteed anything, and if you're dropping that much cash you're probably full-time meaning part-time work so a lot of that debt can't be handled through the interim of daily life. Then you have the option of dormitories or an apartment, food plan etc.. You're essentially predestined to live paycheck to paycheck for four or more years while never being able to pay for your loans. Enter the real world and you have staggering debt, possibly a job, and what is likely an unacceptable living situation.
By the time you do get a real job you're still only making median wages which you could've done without ever obtaining a degree in the first place. Now you're trying to self-sustain and start a life, you rent a studio which takes up more than a quarter of your wages, you need a phone and an internet connection, you need car insurance, you need medical insurance, you need food and fuel, you need entertainment, you need to pay off a sliver of your debt only to realize you've paid $40,000 to live paycheck to paycheck for a piece of paper which doesn't necessarily grant you a career in your chosen field, which doesn't necessarily increase your salary, which doesn't really seem to be an economically sound decision.

>>57468095
They have sealed ponds which are frequently inspected by MSHA. As a matter of fact MSHA inspects virtually everything on a minesite, things as nominal as an uncovered fluorescent bulb can be written up and fined. Which means when they do the environmental testing (including water, air, runoff) they are incredibly anal, which is precisely why all of these ponds are maintained with a great attention to detail. They're also pumped frequently. Chemical waste is also disposed of in a very controlled manner. Where are you getting your facts? India?

>>57467236
This. Australia gets an inland sea out of it so I'm quite happy with it.

>>57468170
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23387116

That's all well and good until you decide to stop doing that. This only took like five seconds on google. Not even google scholar.

>>57467236
We're going to see billions of people dead, millions of species extinct, an uninhabitable equator, the complete death of fishing as a food source, and the loss of nearly every major city on the planet.

>>57467266
Please, link me to a scholarly article of yours, published in a reputable, peer reviewed scientific journal, analyzing the methodology of modern climate science. We're all waiting to be enlightened.

>>57466790
OF THE COAL PLANTS

>>57468170
BC Canada here, don't count on inspections for shit. We had a mining town's water supply get permanently fucked with Arsenic. The mine had a tailings pond that was overfilled and, despite passing inspections, was still in poor repair. The pond's barrier gave in one day and the local ecosystem & fishing economy was instantly irreversibly damaged.

Chemical waste is dangerous, and companies have incentives to reduce the cost of operations. Conforming to regulations is a cost centre, so the sealed ponds never get the money they really should be getting. There is not a big incentive for a mining company to be super safe.

In addition coal is only contributing to our global climate disaster. It's bad thing after bad thing when you look at digging up carbon and burning it, no question.

We could power our whole country with solar and batteries. Why not do that? We can balance the grid with hydroelectric dams and nuclear power, or perhaps wind.

>>57467236
You really think we can predict what will happen when we shift the temperature up permanently by 3 or more degrees? The environment is a system that existed and optimized itself over billions of years. You cannot possibly think that you can predict the outcome of adding trillions of tons of carbon to the atmosphere. I am not saying that there will be a huge apocalyptic future, but given the sensitivity of the environment to temperature change, it is an outcome that we should prepare for.

>>57468191
>here's a vague article about a mine that's probably 80 years old, when barons were allowed to gun down people on strike
Good job, great argument. Something more modern, relevant, and perhaps poignant?

>>57464205
I'm a conservative republican and 8 years ago we thought Obama was going to completely change the country around. The country really hasn't changed all that much and is likely to do so under Trump unless liberals burn the whole country down with their protests.

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>>57464205
>>57464327
YES

LETS KEEP THROWING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AT (((SOLAR ENERYGY))) COMPANIES

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/26/solyndra-misled-government-get-535-million-solar-p/

>>57464205
It'll still be growing, but probably at a slower rate.

>>57468378
man you aren't even a shill. fuck off back to /pol/.

>>57468371
Oh it changed alright. It became the most closed off, secretive administration this country has ever seen.

>>57467236
An increase of 3C is probably going to lead to a mass extinction event. We're not going extinct, but things are gonna get rather unpleasant. Though people in undeveloped countries will get the worst of it.

>>57468407
That's nothing. Once we hit +4C, it would require massive NEGATIVE carbon emissions, possibly for centuries, to stop us from hitting +6C. And at +6C, we go back to the stone age.

>>57468308
>Canadian mines
Whole lot more anal here. I'm going to assume since it was arsenic you're talking about a metallurgical mine, too. Oh, it is, it's a gold mine. Good job, real relevant. I do agree with you though, I'd like to see nuclear develop. It's clean, efficient and cheap. Solar kills birds, wind turbines kill birds, dams interrupt fish and can break causing massive havoc, batteries require caustic and toxic materials for manufacture, hydrocarbons put off greenhouse gasses, natural gas necessitates fracking. No matter what we're fucked, and frankly that's fine, since life by definition is totally futile. On the plus side maybe there will be widespread disease that will off 30+% of the population and the grid will finally find some relief.

>>57468253
the peer review process is an invention of the Jews to enable white genocide

only image macros and youtube videos can be trusted

>>57468391
>>>/reddit/

>Solyndra, the solar panel manufacturer who took more than $500 million from President Obama’s stimulus then went bust, sticking taxpayers for the loss, lied to federal officials to secure the loan.

Solar Panel energy is DOA. Solar Furnaces might have a future.

>>57468371
Obama only had both houses on his side for 2 years and there wasn't a consensus among democrats to keep a veto proof supermajority. Trump will probably have both houses on his side for 4 unless the dems somehow inspire voters to turn out during the midterm election.

>>57468308
We don't have the battery technology to do that. That's why.

>>57468466
Fuck off, retard. Nobody cares about Solyndra. The US Army lost a trillion dollars in Iraq. No idea where it went.

Remove tax breaks (subsidies) from oil & gas and renewables will really take off. Contrary to popular belief, renewable subsidies pale in comparison to those given to the fossil fuel industry.

>>57468477
Or filibuster proof* rather.

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>>57468378
Oh no, a solar company stole 0.25% of the amount of money we give fossil fuel companies every year. How terrible.

>>57468499
20 billion last i heard. For fossil fuels.

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>>57468489
>Nobody cares about Solyndra.

Yet your retarded ass wants to keep throwing millions at a failed technology. SAD!

>US Army lost a trillion dollars in Iraq. No idea where it went.
I want that investigated into you moron. Probably went into this guys pockets

>>57468466
Didn't Trump lose like twice that in a year and then write it off in his taxes?

>>57467281
Introduce harder entrance exams and eliminate useless courses like "bigender fluidness studies applied to middle-ages mediterranean region".

>>57468489
Bullshit we don't. Walmart is buying batteries to serve as backup power for 90 of their stores. Will you stop spouting bullshit now?

>>57466091
>i like to feel safe
>muh feels

I bet you also want to ban guns

>>57468539
You fucking tool, do you want to install a battery backup system in every home and business on the planet? Nobody has the resources for that shit, and the grid STILL wouldn't be able to handle the energy swings.

How are you so fucking stupid you don't understand the difference between distributed and centralized energy production?

>>57465822
>Latest fad is CELL TOWERS CAUSE CANCER OH NOOOOOOOOO

What? No they don't. That's more ridiculous than wind turbines causing headaches and nausea. Only ionizing radiation causes cancer. Nobody believes this.

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>>57468207
>We're going to see billions of people dead
>loss of nearly every major city on the planet.

This solves the problem.jpeg

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>>57468525
>20 billion last i heard. For fossil fuels.
Lol nope.

also
>oh no, compaines are stealing money from our goverment, oh it's ok it's a solar energy firm

>>57468531
What does that have to do with solar energy?

>>57468582
>wikipedia

Son there's a reason your teachers don't let you use that as a source.

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-fossil-fuel-subsidies-increase-dramatically-despite-climate-change-pledge-2180918

>>57468593
How about from the government itself:
https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA%20FFSR%20progress%20report%20to%20G20%202014%20Final.pdf
>8.2Billion

>>57468563
>ionizing radiation
>only
Nope, sorry.

>>57468605
>>57468593
You're failing to see the problem: they aren't funding nuclear.

>>57468609
Uh yes. Microwave radiation does not cause cancer. Full stop.

Only ionizing radiation causes cancer, because only ionizing radiation has the energy needed to disrupt your cells' DNA. That's what makes it ionizing radiation.

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>>57468605
http://data.instituteforenergyresearch.org/tax-subsidies/renewables/
>27 Billion for Renewables

>>57468627
They are. I'm not against nuclear energy, I support it 100%. But these idiots are too brainwashed to realize they have been played by the (((green energy))) lobby

>>57468643
Except your DNA naturally decays over time from use, which is also a cause of cancer. That's why tobacco products cause cancer, they damage cells which then need to repair and replicate, making use of the DNA. It also accelerates replication which is hamfisted enough to cause mutations. Then you have a bunch of junk DNA and non-coding shit to mix with the mutations which codes for shit proteins.

>>57468685
Tobacco products cause cancer because they're a source of ionizing radiation. They're a natural bioaccumulator of polonium and radium in the soil.

>>57466022
Enjoy losing 33% of your population.

>>57468716
The worst 33%

>>57468685
You are confusing microwave burns with cancer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/electromagnetic-fields-fact-sheet

>>57468453
>Solar kills birds, wind turbines kill birds
I really don't feel like those are comparable to the other things there

>>57468661
>27 Billion for Renewables

And ONE company fucked off with half a million, again, nobody cares.

>>57468744
>it's fine to destroy the exact thing we're trying to protect.

>>57468027
MagLev for energy storage?

>>57468777
And no company has produced anything viable.

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>>57468809
>The trucks running entirely on biodiesel aren't viable
>The 10% ethanol in all your gasoline isn't viable
>E85 isn't viable
>The 73GW of installed wind energy in the US isn't viable
>Walmart's local solar systems aren't viable

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Didn't he say climate change was a hoax created by the Chinese to wreck the American economy?

The guy is a fucking idiot, and his idiocy could have severe consequences for the environment.

I only hope that there will be some sensible people around him to steer him in the right direction or he could undo decades of work.

>>57464327
>flee to EUrope, China and Japan
The USA already plays a negligible role in the photovoltaics market. Solar technology in Europe mostly comes from Europe and China.

>>57468777
>half a million
500 million.
The fact you are even saying that this should be allowed show how much cognitive dissonance you have.

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>>57468845
>>The 10% ethanol in all your gasoline isn't viable
>>E85 isn't viable
Guess who made that possible.

>>57468853
He can't get out of the Paris agreement without withdrawing from the entire UNFCCC.

>>57468866
Seriously you have no idea how much money just disappears from the federal budget every year. 500 million is a drop in the bucket. That's enough to buy 500 rounds for the navy's new railgun.

>>57464327
>Trump is a protectionist but he can't dictate what the markets do.
What are subsidies?

>fire up dem coal plants, frack the shit out of earth and send the fuckign tree huggers to gitmo lmao

>>57468853
well doesn't matter where the manufacturing is done its still going to create pollution.

>>57468906
Subsidies alone won't make your market competitive, and...they cost money...

Bringing back all the jobs he lost to low wage countries is a fucking dream. There's just no way America can match those low wages.

>>57468896
>Seriously you have no idea how much money just disappears
Yes I do.
The fact that you are rationalising it and trying to talk down to someone on the internet is laughable though.

Keep supporting those (((solar energy))) companies though.

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>>57468896
>He can't get out of the Paris agreement without withdrawing from the entire UNFCCC.
It's not spelled American't.
What are you going to do, Europoor?

>>57468918
What do you mean it doesn't matter?

>>57468853
The world is more complex than that.

I keep using the pendulum metaphor for discussion. A certain level of corruption is tolerable. But Clinton went way beyond that. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way, we'd rather have a bombastic asshat that knows dick about shit than someone who spent the last decade lying through her teeth about everything she ever did.

It's going to happen in climate change now. Trump will fuck us 30 ways from Sunday, but we'll be ANGRY about it. Sure the US may lag behind but that's just going to energize environmentalists to push even harder.

>>57468921
We can with a 35% import tax.

>>57468936
Even with 35% import tax you won't be able to manage it.

China subsidises many firms that even operate below the break even point.

You can't compete with that.

Not to mention the fact that in the long run those jobs are gone for high wage countries anyway because automation will be cheaper.

>>57468308
>We could power our whole country with solar

Solar is utterly pathetic for energy vs footprint as a baseline power source. ESPECIALLY as far from the equator as Canada is. What do you think you're going to do? Slash and pave over your arable land with fragile, expensive, high maintenance (and fucking toxic to manufacture) solar panels? A molten thorium salt power plant the size of a small house would be capable of generating upward of 50MW, vs TEN FUCKING ACRES per 1MW, optimistically, for solar.

And those p-n junctions in solar cells wear out like LEDs do, so your efficiency drops over time and they have to be replaced every 10 years or so. Not something you'd worry about for a backyard panel but good luck cycling solar hardware for terawatts of output.

>>57468964
Honestly I want NAFTA gone because I'm not convinced it's actually a good trade agreement. It kinda fucks over Mexico pretty hard.

>>57468995
You have one of the lowest population densities on the planet, don't fucking tell me you can't spare the land.

>>57469006
Forget the land, they don't even have the money to buy the panels in the first place, nor the population to support the maintenance industry they would require.

>>57469023
True. And besides, wind energy is at a far more viable state than solar at this point in time.

Probably why they've been investing so heavily in it.

>>57466430
This is not /pol/ kiddo

>>57469006
Nafta and TTIP gone would be great

>>57468995
http://www.skyfireenergy.com/canada-versus-the-world/

Seems to work fine for Germany, and according to these guys, Canada has way more potential for it.

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>>57468378
>mfw big green buys off the government and the scientific community to oppress the helpless mom and pop oil shops

>>57468791
No, I mean the number of birds killed is quite small, isn't it?

>>57466430
kek

>>57469341
Go back to /co/, Kelly.

>>57468791
Nobody's trying to protect birds. We're trying to protect ourselves. I rather LIKE having a Florida.

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Really makes you think

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>not wanting to switch to nuclear reactors.

It's like you faggots really believe green energy sources are our practical savior and will stop global warming. More Marxist propaganda to remove state power and weaken the republic.

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Speaking of coal, there is a possibility we can kill 2 birds with one stone. There may be a way to turn ill-producing coal mines and waste coal-ash, that has to be dug up and disposed of anyways, into source of rare earth elements. If this ever becomes viable, we could improve the coal-mining industry, make it cleaner and reduce china's dominance in rare-earth production all at once.

>>57469432
But thorium is a green energy source. Not only is it environmentally friendly, it is LITERALLY GREEN.

Trump isnt protectionist. The free trade deals he rags on arent really "free" to begin with.

There will "clean" coal and "clean" fracking, as well as "clean" fossil fuels.

"Clean" energy will be good. Just not yours.

>>57468078
Most republican states are internal states and less developed than the coastal democratic states, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

>>57464359
So it'd be ok for you and your family to have your lifespan divided by two, renounce any leisure time, work 7 days a week in unhealthy menial job and not have access to anything needed beyond short term survival? Because that's what "consuming less energy" means.

>>57469648
>work 7 days a week in unhealthy menial job

That would consume more energy.

But please, keep pretending the residential sector has any impact whatsoever.

>>57468027
Gravity assisted hydropump would work fine for energy storage, if people feel like building it.

>>57464359
This will not happen. We are reducing the consumption per appliance but increasing number of appliances.

This has to do with increasing world population, developing countries standard of living rising etc. Manufacturing is also a huge energy hog and product cycles are getting shorter and shorter.

>>57468268
AND THE HIPPIES ARE DEAD.

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>>57469803
Ok say it with me:

THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR IS NOT THE ISSUE

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>>57469824
part 2

>>57469824
What's "Electric Power" there?

>>57469846
See the post immediately afterwards.

Also, most of the energy in a residential or commercial building goes to the HVAC system and lighting. Yet people still bitch that they can't buy incandescent bulbs anymore

>>57469897
>Yet people still bitch that they can't buy incandescent bulbs anymore
But muh gubbernment regulations are killing businesses!

>>57469824
this. The fake "environmentalists" ALWAYS fucking target the least powerful people in society, trying to ban lightbulbs and trash bags and inexpensive cars. And ignore the multi-trillion dollar chemical and energy industries doing all of the actual pollution and waste

>>57469824
>transportation gets 28%
>>57469846
>Transportation gets 0.03
something doesn't add up

>>57464327
>oil sands are one of the most devastating an polluting activities on the planet.

What are you talking about? we take the sand, clean it, and then put it back.

>>57469958
How many electric cars do you think are on the road?

>>57469984
probably not that many

>>57469952
Light bulbs actually were a problem. There is no reason on earth to have a 120W light bulb you have to replace every month. That is an insane waste of electricity and resources.

I'm a solar developer (in France though), if you got any questions go on.

>>57469958
Yes, 28% of TOTAL energy. 0.03% of ELECTRICAL energy. Transport is also responsible for 72% of petroleum consumption. You see?

>>57470009
Ah, one is energy consumption and one is electrical flow. It looked like they were part of the same presentation, so I didn't read the headlines.

>>57469994
What kind of college degree d o you need for that?

>>57470039
I have a Master's degree in Energy Engineering and another one in Renewable Energy.

Most people have a Master's degree in Renewable Energy or Solar Energy.

Being a developer I also encounter people that comes from Business school. You need a good background in Solar Energy in this case.

>>57470020
>I didn't read
And yet you felt the need to complain that something was wrong. Funny, that.

>>57464205
Who cares?

>>57469994
What sort of storage options are viable right now that are cheap and long lasting and reliable.

Aside from the general lithium batteries/lead batteries.

>>57470322
Storing energy is a problem for which we haven't found a good solution yet.

Some companies are trying to pair up fuel cell to a renewable energy power plant to convert water into H2 while the power plant cannot inject it's produced electricity into the grid.

Are you talking of storage options for the people or in general ?

>>57470379
>Are you talking of storage options for the people or in general ?
Both. What's available right now and also what's in the possible future as well as potential realms.

I was looking into a bit of the energy storage, specifically the underground heat storage systems and thermionic converters for electric generation. However that seems bit far off in the future as the development is low in that sphere.

>>57470439
Fuel Cell is a good alternative, if we can build one without precious metal and if we can produce H2 with renewable energy.

Storage of H2 is easy, without risk, the amount of stored energy doesn't decreased with time.

From smartphone and laptop to cars and home there's a lot of possible application.

As long as the mean of H2 production is "clean" then it's an environmentally friendly solution (it only reject water).

Underground heat storage is a good solution too, it's sometimes paired up with a geothermal power plant.

Today hydroelectric storage is widely used (at least in France) and it's a good solution for when we need to evacuate some power from the grid.

Country using Nuclear Energy use it a lot because of the nuclear energy regulation limits.

One of the best Home solution is the storage of energy via phase change material. (typically a layer of the wall is a material that have a fusion/solidification point at a low temperature)

Unvented masonry or water Trombe walls have been widely applied to passive solar space heating.Recent development of reliable phase change materials (PCM) gives rise to the hope of reducing the mass and improving the thermal behaviour of these walls.

>>57467343
are you familiar with actual chinese people?

most chinese are 6' tall

>>57467343
Food consumption is directly related to height.

China now is much more prosperous therefore "5'2" height is seem mainly in improvised areas, all around the world. When high nutritous food available, people grow in heights. This is easily seen in recent migrants in the US vs original improvished country.

>>57470609
>"5'2" height
>improvised areas
pls to be not trying smart sound when u stoopid.

>>57468845
Alcohol isn't as stable as gasoline and when it decays it leaves water. Water in engines is bad, E85 is a joke. Biodiesel works, but not particularly well. Conjoined they both cut into food sources. Have fun with your brown and blackouts while you wait for wind to spin up those turbines.
>walmart solar
This means literally nothing. Solar has been around since the fifties.

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>>57468896
>tfw he's assembling the dream team of all the bad actors in the republican party and will pass every regressive policy he can push

>>57469369
Not going to be a lot to protect after dustbowl 2.0. Ecological systems are pretty fine tuned. Start killing birds and you lose precious seed distribution and pest control. Field grasses stop perpetuating and the ones that do are consumed by insects. Exposed soil stops retaining nutrients, plants stop growing, soil erosion destroys crops, drought plagues the lands, population significantly reduced.

>>57472427
>Alcohol isn't as stable as gasoline and when it decays
What the fuck. No.

>>57470543
Except it isn't hydrolysis, even at its peak, is still prohibitively expensive and non-scalable while only managing a 13% efficiency. Theoretically it's genius, realistically it's dysfunctional to say the least.

>>57472599
Yeah, actually. Have you used a lawnmower in the last 16 years? Left to sit water accumulates in the fuel from decay and makes turning the cocksucker virtually impossible without running seafoam through it.

>>57464327
>If he doesn't it means those companies will flee to EUrope,

Green Energy is absolutely uncompetitive.
If he lifts regulations off real energy solar panels go out of business and miners get jobs for coal.

Which is probably going to happen.
And it is a good thing because real energy actually produces profit and can pay for itself.

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Hi there, am I forever 20 years away or will ITER or a Stellarator save you?
On a more serious note, adopt fission since it's godly. Maybe invest in Thorium, fuck the nukes. Also, I'd love the idea of having very efficient solar panels and not be at mercy of the main grid. Solar isn't there yet, but it has great potential.

>>57472689
>@FusionOfAtom
>ITER, THIS.

>>57466198
>implying earth will be inhabitable by humans 200 years from now

>>57472801
Clouds of computronium are inhabitable, in a sense.

>>57472838
let's just put our brains into solar powered computers and send ourselves into space

>>57464359
fridges and TVs make up less than 0.001% of the US's power usage you reatd

>>57464205
It won't because he doesn't control such things.

>>57469918
Regulations didn't kill the business, feeling to keep up to date with evolving technology did.

>>57464205
Since solar panels have hit the $0.10/kwh mark if you buy it really doesn't make any sense for people (who have the initial investment) to continue using grid power. You save quite a bit, especially with growing fuel prices.

The only thing that could easily beat out solar now is nuclear, since it costs ~$0.02/kwh to produce. Trouble is reactors cost into the billions to build.

>>57468539
Yes, backup power.
Power called on a handful of times a year for a short amount of time, to prevent them from having to deal with the consequences of a power outage.

In other words, nothing like what you would need to power a nation.

>>57466460
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/india-doesnt-lag-in-developing-thorium-fuelled-nuclear-reactor-mr-srinivasan-former-aec-chairman/articleshow/52489649.cms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power#India
Holy fuck the streetshitters will be the ones to save us.

>>57467080
It has passive safety you dumb dumb.

>>57469994
Are lithium Iron Phosphate batteries at all worth it?
Their capacity, discharge rate, and longevity are all great, but not being able to recondition them seems like a huge problem.

>>57472599
Yes, you fucking moron. It also has SHIT for energy density and loves to gum up engines, and eat fuel lines/seals.
Anything except straight gas or E85 is a complete joke.

>>57473664
Indian does not necesarily mean pajeet, same as all blacks aren't niggers. There is a difference. I think they're behind schedule, but if they can deploy LFTRs, then you can bet others will follow.

>>57468546
I'm not him, but I do. Fuck those.
I have 3 and I want to ban them.

>>57468308
>We had a mining town's water supply get permanently fucked with Arsenic. The mine had a tailings pond that was overfilled and, despite passing inspections, was still in poor repair. The pond's barrier gave in one day and the local ecosystem & fishing economy was instantly irreversibly damaged.
>There is not a big incentive for a mining company to be super safe.
Looks like there is huge incentive to be super safe.

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I work in shipping and everyone invested billions and billions on LNG because it's being sold as a "clean alternative to oil".

They were planning to build hundreds of new ships, with new dual-fuel engines, new LNG-fuel storage tanks (very specialized), new LNG-refueling small tankers to refuel the big ships, new LNG storage facilities at ports around the world, and of course the big guns, Floating LNG storage/process facilities at various production spots around the world, and the gigantic LNG-carrier ships they're all building to transport all that energy around.

Basically, a lot of money and work for everyone involved, shipyards, shipowners, ports, energy majors, and of course all the people in between getting their hefty commissions out of every deal: brokers, bankers, lawyers and all the rest.
Trillions, in the long term.

Meanwhile there was no good reason to require all the current ships to be replaced, they're still perfectly functional and economical and well maintained. Their only flaw is they burn oil.

I hope Mr. Trump tells them all to fuck off. It's not "good for the environment" to have thousands of functional ships replaced and built anew just because they burn cleaner fuel. The Paris convention is a disaster.

Hydrogen coupled with fission (and fusion in the future) is the long term solution, if politicians werent such jews we would have been running on hydrogen for the last 20 years.

>>57464327
Trump voters don't work high paying jobs like engineering. The jobs they want back are low education manual labor and manufacturing jobs (which no longer exist).

>>57464318
Clean coal is a fucking joke. If you actually build a plant that does this, it's more expensivd than nuclear

>>57474112
In fact, trump voters work shit jobs like coal and want clean energy gone

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how does /g/ feel that /pol/ chose the president of the US , does it make them feel ineffectual or irrelevant. What has RMS been up to lately? Arguing with the mailman about non-free paper? Just sad /g/. You need to step up your game before you disappear

>>57465911
Texas would turn into new delphi

>>57474154
>Huge amounts of engineers don't work in and around coal plants and mines and all the interconnecting infrastructure
Okay, buddy.

>>57472689

Could you imagine a time in earth existence where the sun enters the super nova state, turning from it's normal yellow state to a permanent blue one? Holy shit, the human race would be freaking the fuck out.

>>57464205
'murica
use solar panels for clean energy
they get shot at

why even bother faggot? automatically dismissed your question

>>57474511
>Sol ever going Nova

>>57469846
>half of energy spent on conversion

is it normal, or is it because america does not use AC power?

i don't want to start a shitstorm, i'm genuinely interested. Or am i even right about USA not using AC? Maybe murica uses AC on larger energy lines and i just don't know about that.

>>57472526
Windmills are not killing that many birds.

>>57475336
We use AC power in homes but DC power to transmit over long distances, which does result in more power lost.

But I'm still pretty sure that's normal. You're always going to have a lot of power loss when you transmit it over long distances.

>>57474085
Hydrogen is not viable at this point in time. The technology simply isn't there yet.

>>57466358
/thread
american housing is inefficient as fuck
plus switch to 230v to reduce losses and ban 0.98HP(with 40% efficiency), set limit to around 150 watts

>>57464205
Trump does not care about so-called clean energy. Neither do I. We as a nation have more immediate and important things to worry about, like getting rid of ObamaCare, closing the borders and killing a moslems.

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>>57474160
>not knowing that half the us is on /pol/
wake up sheeple

>>57468724
Cali BTFO

>>57469648
No.
Europeans consume far less than amerifats.

>>57464205
>clean energy
Define clean energy.

>>57466091
>Gotta hand it to him.. he has vision-- the other car manufacturers are catching up and the tesla line will remain a luxury line.

Tesla is:
Emission Credits Mafia
+
guys who buy a 3rd handed car subsidizing people who pays on average 100k for a Tesla.

Other car manufacturers (and car dealers) are caught in this racket, put up by the great state of California, and run by Tesla.

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>/g/ is able to have a civil political discussion 10x better than /pol/
i don't know why i'm surprised. so used to things devolving into shitposting and trolling 10 posts in.

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>>57464359
lingscars.com has to be the best website ever made.

>>57476361
/g/ and /co/ and really any board that isn't /peepeepoopoo/.

>>57466022
The entire west and east cost should succeed from the states. So all that's left is the shitty trump voter states that don't produce anything useful.

>ctrl-f "((("
>more results than i should ever see
This shit is fucking retarded. If you don't know how to greentext (which, I can only assume is the reason you retarded niggers have to fall back on reddit memes to convey mistrust in something), you can fuck right back to /pol/.

>>57476748
Ironically the rednecks there would probably try to illegally emigrate after the red states fail to attract industry.

>>57476748
Except, y'know, literally all of your food and energy.

So much liberal smugness in this thread.

Do any of you realize that the economy is tanking and you all want to waste money to experiment with the most cost-ineffective energy resources?

I'm so fucking glad we got Trump elected before you libtards destroy this country.

>>57469648
Actually, never walking and always driving your car for short journeys makes you fat and lowers your lifespan.

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>>57477013
Solar is an experiment, sure. But wind is proven. Wind is now the actual cheapest source of electricity, to the point where by national average, it's cheaper per watt than coal.

Iowa is a state with a republican governer, republican legislature, mostly republican congressmen, and they voted Trump, and ALL THIS WIND POWER is installed in mostly republican counties. It's not liberalism, it's common sense.

>>57477001
Food and energy is cheap, that why it comes from Mexico and Canada. It's not a secret that the middle America states take more federal money than the coastal states.

>>57474511
spelled red giant phase wrong

>>57477086
Because of government subsidies. Crony capitalism is the only reason why the numbers look good on paper.

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>>57474511
> sun enters the super nova state, turning from it's normal yellow state to a permanent blue one?

You could not be more wrong about how stars work if you tried.

>>57468593
Wow 'a new report' form a totally unbiased non politically motivated source "Priceofoil".

>>57477111
Yeah well let's take off the fossil fuel subsidies too, see how that goes over.

>>57468563
>That's more ridiculous than wind turbines causing headaches and nausea.
Well they do.

Flashing lights and thumping sounds do cause headaches and nausea.

>>57477158
Except no they don't, and they also don't do either of those things, and they're also not built near enough to towns where you could see or hear them even if they did.

>>57477086
>Solar is an experiment, sure. But wind is proven. Wind is now the actual cheapest source of electricity, to the point where by national average, it's cheaper per watt than coal.

I'd love to see how you are beating 3 cents with wind.

>>57477013
The economy is tanking because either your local economy is based on shitty things that are deprecated or because your government is spending it's money keeping that bullshit going.

Also, almost all economic projection is a recession with a trump presidency so have fun you retard.

>>57476361
There have been plenty of horrible threads in the past few days. This one has mostly taken place during usual school hours so I'm guessing there is a lot of /pol/ missing.

I'm personally hoping Trump can be swayed to promote green energy / protect the environment under some guise of job creation or something. My small homelab isn't fantastic on my bill or my enegery output, and while I'd like cheaper enegery, I'd much rather invest in green. Luckily there are some good companies springing up in MN to do so. Hopefully after Trump takes office, nothing will change of that.

>>57477173
>Except no they don't, and they also don't do either of those things, and they're also not built near enough to towns where you could see or hear them even if they did.

Yeah they do, and when you build them out in a farmers field too close to their homes it causes effects that humans don't like.
Now can you fix that issue by moving them away from where people live or work? Sure.

But now you need to ask what effect does it have on wild life? Do animals like flashing lights and constant thumping sounds?

>>57477190
Installation and maintenence costs. It's literally a set it and forget it technology.

>>57477224
Debunked to hell and back, dude. Wind turbine syndrome is a myth. Farmers who own the land and live right up next to the turbines to the point where they can actually hear them, at which point it's still quieter than a fucking fridge, say it doesn't exist. Anyone else is unable to hear it

Also it's not a thumping sound, it's a hum. Get your propaganda straight. Furthermore, I wouldn't consider a blink every five seconds to be 'flashing'. Just how fast do you think those fuckers spin?

>>57474150
It is more expensive than nuclear power or solar power or wind power. But it is perfectly possible to collect all the CO2. We have a natural gas plant here in Norway where we do this

>>57477199
Economic projections lol. Stop worshiping intellectuals, they are blind to the facts of the real world.

How did trusting the polling intellectuals work out for you this election?

>>57477555
People underestimate how retarded you people are.

>>57468101
could not have said it better anon

fuck college in the US

>>57477482
>norway
>muh clean energy

while most of your economy is based on oil :^)

>>57477678
Economics always forget to plug in the feels coefficient :^)

Clean energy subsidies will get thrown out, making that shit as expensive as it actually is.

>>57477858
farming subsidies need to go first

>>57477156
Fossil fuels subsidies reduce reliance on Saudi and middle-eastern oil. For national security reasons, we must continue those subsidies.

>>57477279
>Installation and maintenence costs. It's literally a set it and forget it technology.
Do you are going to ignore all capital costs.
In that case you can lower the price of nuclear power by 80%.

>>>57477224 (You)
>Anyone else is unable to hear it
So other than the people that hear it no one hears it.

>Also it's not a thumping sound, it's a hum. Get your propaganda straight. Furthermore, I wouldn't consider a blink every five seconds to be 'flashing'. Just how fast do you think those fuckers spin?

The big 2MW ones go thump thump thump when they are running at productive power. They feather the blades when they have a photo op by them otherwise you can't hear anything within a reasonable distance.

As for the flashing, 3 blades, 17.5 rpm = 1 blade passing every 1.14 seconds. That's also the how many thumps they make when the blade crosses the tower and the compressed air from the blade edge strike the tower.

>>57477904
>implying moving to clean energy doesn't solve the same fucking problem
are you that dense?

>>57477918
Wind turbines near homes have sound levels of under 50 dB. That is literally less than your fridge makes. It is a myth. There are no scientific studies supporting wind turbine syndrome.

>>57477975
>Wind turbines near homes
A special sub set that I have selected prove my claim.

How loud are the 2MW ones?

>>57477938
What 'clean' energy are you going to use to replace liquid fuels that power all internal combustion engines?

>>57477982
Not loud enough that I could hear them when I lived next to them for 3 years.

>>57478041
>next to them

Everyone lives next to them if you don't denote a distance.

>>57478044
Bud I'm not going to prove your argument for you. The basic fact is that all 'evidence' of wind turbine sickness is self reported by people who already believe in it. Most actual studies support the nocebo hypothesis.

>>57477996
replace the fucking engines

>>57477996
phase out internal combustion engines.

Obviously this isn't immediately practicable right now, but it could be implemented in a major way right now given the right tax break incentive.

>>57464205
NUCLEAR ENERGY!!
cars on nuclear energy instead of fuel, and everyshit nuclear

>>57478122
I really hope you're joking because having 300 million potential dirty bombs driving around the country is a terrible idea.

>>57464359
Protip: home energy consumption is a small fraction of the total energy consumption.

The biggest consumers are industry and manufacture.

If we only needed energy for home consumption we'd be doing fine only with power from hydro sources (dams) which have a very low environmental effect.

>>57478164
You can't make a bomb out of portable nuclear reactor unless you set up your own enrichment plant that cost like a billion dollars.

>>57478271
Dirty bomb dude. A dirty bomb is a bomb with nuclear material strapped to it.

Now I admit it's a bit hyperbole to call cars rolling bombs but the fact remains we have to consider that everything in a car can end up spilling outside of the car.

whats your thoughts of a hybrid car with gasoline/electric for city usage and a miniature wind turbine for generating power on the highway

ignoring the engineering difficulties and manufacturing schematics how practical do you see this being?

>>57478379
the wind turbine will generate more drag and make the car less efficient and consume more net energy to drive

>>57478379
Violates thermodynamics. You can't get more energy from the wind turbine than you lose in drag. The only reason stationary wind turbines work is because they aren't trying to get anywhere.

Unless you're trying to slow the car down, then we already have regenerative breaking which is far more efficient.

>>57464205
>>57464318
What's with the "clean" meme? Reminds me of the "cloud" meme. Instead of FTP/SSH/DCC etc it's all "cloud" memes.

>>57478197
I think solar is only going to be viable in specific regional home/residential markets. It's still not there yet as storage is an issue as is cost without subsidies and even then.

>>57479320
>autist who can't understand language progression to describe broader ideas

Solar for your home, nuclear for everyone. Sci-fi shit for later.

>>57464359
>i should have to live my life in a worse manner because people can't properly implement energy production
Nuclear power could easily generate current energy requirements

>>57479409
I identify as a pollutant that contributes to the global warming meme with my gases from my various orifices.

>>57479320
do you know what openstack is?

>>57479496
Yes, I've heard of it. Messing around with Owncloud and Nextcloud atm.

>>57464205
F R E E M A R K E T

>>57479320
"clean" coal has been around for longer than you've been alive, kid. And it's never not had those quotation marks around it.

File: 14538069987658.jpg (312KB, 770x430px) Image search: [Google]

312KB, 770x430px

>>57464205
>solar
trash
>wind
trash
>nuclear
Now this is where the shit is at

>inb4 nuclear is expensive
Koreans proved you wrong

>>57467182
Why is the average income of Trump voters like 72k if his appeal is to poor people

>>57469138
>GERMANY
>FINE

Energiewinde is a fucking filure, burning coal and wood is not green.

And enjoying some of the highest electricity prices in europe isnt fun either

Fun fact: Nuclear heavy france is a third as carbon intensive at generating electricity than Germany

>>57467281
>Also, you can't walk up to the 41 year old plant worker, tell him that his job is being taken from him but he shouldn't worry because he can take 4 years out of his life to learn a new profession.
That's all you can do. What else can you do?

>>57479645
>Why is the average income of Trump voters like 72k if his appeal is to poor people
If they actually cared they would notice the sheer wall of low IQ minorities and whites that vote democrat. These folks are in poverty and have been told to hitch their wagon to the Democrat plantation for everything. Kind of sad. They clamor around their urban ghetto plantations and get morsels/scraps of aid.

>>57479645
Why do you pull numbers out of your ass?

>>57479650
Coal is part of energiewinde? How?

Anyway we're talking strictly about solar energy generation, and Germany is fucking fantastic at it. But solar is a supplementary source, not a primary. I'm sorry your country seems to have forgotten that.

>>57475509
That's because windmills aren't actually implemented at scale. Neither is solar.

>>57478088
>>57478108
So here's the thing, you get the choice:
You phase out industrial ICEs, or you phase out individual ICEs. By the time one sector is running on electricity it has started totally draining the grid. You could combine them, theoretically and hybridize it but you're still facing low adoption rates across the board and especially in developing nations. It's a real long way off and we're not talking a couple decades before the breakeven point and that's assuming there is consistent energy generation and complimentary storage available without using fossil fuels or nuclear.

>>57480550
Fortunately, and the media has glossed over this pretty hard even though it's a Very Big Deal, fourth-generation biofuels exist.