>People who advocate for High Carb Low Fat are vegans funded

>>42435045
>How exactly is one supposed to know

Nothing. You literally can't win the nutrition game, because the real facts are drowned in a sea of cherry picked results funded by different industries.
Your best chance is to pick one and see what it does to your body or how it makes you feel.

Carbs for breakfast, protein for lunch, fat for dinner

Take a good hard look at the actual scientific reports, not news articles or blogs.

Answer is: eat vegan, you aren't designed to consume animal products. But fuck, don't just blindly trust me. Start googling brother

>>42435045

whole grains, vegetables and white meat and fish are good

rest bad

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>>42435091
>Answer is: eat vegan

>>42435091
>Answer is: eat vegan, you aren't designed to consume animal products.

Can you digest cellulose like other (actual) herbivores? If not: kys

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>>42435091
VeganStains™, please go back to >>>/lgbt/

>>42435091
>you aren't designed to consume animal products

You have 10 seconds to justify this position

>>42435121
>>42435120
>>42435102
>>42435097

>Can you digest cellulose like other (actual) herbivores? If not: kys

I certainly believe so, here's a study finding that more than half of the fiber in fruits, vegetables and refined grains is degraded, while the apparent digestibility of refined cellulose is minimal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6257867/
Apart from that, it would appear as though fiber has other important functions in the metabolism, like aiding in absorbing cholesterol and promoting colon health

>You have 10 seconds to justify this position

Well the saturated fat and cholesterol found in animal products cause most of our diseases. Here are a couple of studies. Don't expect you to read them all, but it can be useful to people genuinely interested:

Atherosclerosis: Its cause and its prevention
http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(06)01952-7/abstract

Vegetarian diets and the incidence of cancer in a low-risk population.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929

Type of vegetarian diet, body weight, and prevalence of type 2 diabetes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19351712

Consumption of eggs with meals increases the susceptibility of human plasma and low-density lipoprotein to lipid peroxidation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001684

Hell I might be wrong but if I am to change my mind I'd need some pretty convincing evidence and so far I haven't found anything that carries weight

>>42435045
Follow a balanced mediterranean diet.
>This messaggio brought-a to you by the Italian Board of Olives and Pesce del Mare.

>>42435193
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19351712

>The study population comprised 22,434 men and 38,469 women who participated in the Adventist Health Study-2 conducted in 2002-2006. We collected self-reported demographic, anthropometric, medical history, and lifestyle data from Seventh-Day Adventist church members across North America

>Seventh-Day Adventist church members across North America

Literally just today a video was released about how heavily linked they are to the cereal industry, making billions per year around the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWCQF-FFJYk

Long video but somewhere like halfway through they go through all the commercial interests of the church

>among 69,120 participants of the Adventist Health Study

oh look another completely unbiased study

>Consumption of eggs with meals increases the susceptibility of human plasma and low-density lipoprotein to lipid peroxidation.

Cholesterol research has moved on SIGNIFICANTLY since 1996

>>42435242

>Literally just today a video was released about how heavily linked they are to the cereal industry, making billions per year around the world

Interesting, this I wasn't aware of. I will check out the video immediately.

>Cholesterol research has moved on SIGNIFICANTLY since 1996

I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you implying that current scientific evidence suggests other results than that of the report I linked?
Cleaning my apartment at the moment, so answers may take a while fyi.

>>42435193
>Apart from that, it would appear as though fiber has other important functions in the metabolism, like aiding in absorbing cholesterol and promoting colon health
that was not the question ;^)

>>42435045
I follow a mostly vegan diet because I feel best on it and I also find a lot of the practices in the commercial meat industry sickening. I do eat venison that I harvest, and shellfish simply because I fucking love eating them, but no dairy, no commercial meat, no eggs, etc.

Anyway nearly all this diet 'research' is biased. Humans are incredibly complex and the mechanisms causing various conditions are not well understood in the face of this complexity, which opens this all up to being gamed. The poster boy for this is the US NLSP, which is gamed all to fuck and has school kids eating garbage just because it is cheap but qualifies as reimbursable.

Not that the vegan propaganda films are any better.

>>42435193
>here's a study
>sample size: seven women

consider never posting again

>>42435385
>Can you fly by flapping your wings, like other (actual) avians? If not: kys

Moron logic makes sense to morons.

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>>42435045
guess where most vegans fall under

http://www.nature.com/news/1-500-scientists-lift-the-lid-on-reproducibility-1.19970?WT.mc_id=SFB_NNEWS_1508_RHBox


and guess where omnivores fall under:

https://pastebin.com/JVpMNyjm

>>42435405
>MGTOW virgin hates women, film at 11

>>42435045
Eat whatever you want, just don't get obese.

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>>42435418
lol so

>what the health movie is made by literal jews
>nutritionfacts.com CEO main doctoro guy is a jew
>most vegans are lefties and/or jews
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201412/84-vegetarians-and-vegans-return-meat-why
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-the-promised-land-for-vegans/
>most tertiary arguments that hate upon cows have something to do with making more niggers
see pic related

and now

>seventh Adventists linked to more leaf eating propaganda

whew

>>42435086
what the fuck

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>>42435430
and here is more or less the only right way to eat.

>>42435045

high fats diets don't work for everyone same w high carb diets, the only way is having the knowledge on how to start both.
you can do both plant-based or w animal products, the point is: being vegan it's not about diets is about being ethical and mindful about the other beings.
Even though, research have shown how high carb diets work best for an endurance athlete because of the oxygen oxidation:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12037719

>>42435453
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12037719

>2-week adaptation

LE

you cannot adapt in 2 weeks, jesus wept, absolutely abhorrent study

>>42435385
You are correct in pointing that out. I brought it up to point out that cellulose seems to have a dietary use even when not digested. I assumed that the standard response would've been something like this:
>why can't we digest 100%?!

>>42435242
I am still watching the video, will get back to you asap.

>>42435405
Although the sample size is smaller than optimal, the point isn't to show a statistically significant digestion rate but instead to point out that people do in fact digest cellulose. Here is another one, but I must warn you that this group was "only" 14 people. Once again, you only asked if we as humans can digest cellulose (like other herbivors):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8719737

>>42435418
The picture you posted can lead to some faulty criticism, as following it blindly could for instance make you dismiss medical research solely based on the fact that they lack a control group. I understand this is beyond what you are saying, but it is important to keep in mind. I'll check your links after I've finished the video above.

>>42435453
Will check this out too asap.

Good discussion so far, brb

>>42435453
>oxygen oxidation
:D

>>42435475
You absolutely can.

Try eating 0 carbohydrates and regularly pee on a keto stick. You'll have adapted to the diet in a few days.

>>42435536
going into ketosis is not the same as being keto adapted

>>42435545
Of course not, but 100% of people who remain on a 0 carb diet will have depleted their glycogen stores
>in a few days
and will be fully keto adapted.

>>42435606
don't even bother with ketard
They always spout shit like "not adapted " on studies and no matter how long it've been conducted they'll raise the "fat adaptation" required time .

The truth is that someone who eat a high carbs diet ( 500+ g /day) for years and do frequent cardio ( 6 hours + ) a week will be ten time more "fat adapted" than a fat fuck doing nothing and eating 0g/ day .

>>42435475

you forgot that endurance athletes can deplete their glycogen stores faster than normal people because of their activities.

>>42435606
that's not what keto adapted means
>>42435625
I don't even do ketosis, it's actually a meme diet that is only effective for hyper endurance atheletes and turbo fatties

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>had to visit Madison WI last week
>why the fuck all the hotels sold out
>find out, get there
>CROSSFIT GAMES shit everywhere
>wtf, crossfit is exercising not a sport
>slowly realize is serious, people trying to be best at exercising

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>>42435643
>that's not what adapted means

>>42435670
When you first enter ketosis, you are using fat for energy, but at first it's in limited amounts because you don't have as many fat-converting enzymes. These get built up over time. This is what causes the tiredness at the beginning of the diet. Once the enzymes are in place, your cells change the way they get energy. It's really amazing all the changes that have to happen internally for keto-adaptation to happen. It's like you can't just put diesel into a regular car engine and expect everything to work smoothly.

Once you are keto-adapted (which can take a few weeks to a month depending on the person), fat/ketones becomes the preferred fuel. Hormone levels are changed, glycogen (glucose stored in muscles and liver) is lowered, you carry less excess water. You're able to function well - lots of energy, you can exercise, lift, build up endurance etc.

>>42435643
Actually keto diets suck for endurance athletes (except just prior to competition) and hyper fatties both.

They work extremely well for bodybuilders trying to lean out before a contest but keep as much mass as possible. Also for short duration endurance events for the same reason since they, for the short term, help reduce body fat but preserve power output.

Cyclists use them before 1 day or 1 week races. For longer races like grand tours they aren't used as often because they don't work well over multi-week events. That and rider usually come into those races heavy, expecting to lose over the course.

>>42435690
unless you never did any sports as a kid you already have enzyme able to efficiently use fats .

And you'll only be low energies , it literally feels like lots of energy because your bodies decrease your energy needs .

>>42435242
Hey again, so I finished the entire video. Even though I don't know enough to either dismiss it nor agree, I still find it quite strange. I'd imagine that if the evidence held up there'd be a shitstorm of news articles and the like. EIther way, lets assume - for the sake of argument - that you're right. Research still exists that doesn't draw primarily from the Adventists.

Type 2 diabetes:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2963891/

Cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048091/

Still waiting on a response regarding that egg/cholesterol thing you mentioned.

>>42435418
>guess where most vegans fall under
This is a pretty hefty claim, could you point to anything specific to back that up?

>and guess where omnivores fall under:
>https://pastebin.com/JVpMNyjm
This is a lot of shit to cover, if anyone is legit interested I can go through it. Otherwise I'll leave it for now.

>>42435453
>high fats diets don't work for everyone same w high carb diets, the only way is having the knowledge on how to start both. you can do both plant-based or w animal products,
>the point is: being vegan it's not about diets is about being ethical and mindful about the other beings.
>Even though, research have shown how high carb diets work best for an endurance athlete because of the oxygen oxidation:
Incorrect, veganism is also - with the exception of B12 - nutritionally adequate and superior to a high fat diet in terms of health benefits.
The study you linked raises some interesting points but none of them are of statistic significance, and thus can't be relied on. The text itself states:

>[..] and although the main effects were not statistically significant, there was some evidence for enhanced ultra-endurance cycling performance relative to high-carbohydrate.

Don't fuck up your own bodies unnecessarily, don't forget why you do this

>>42435091
>answer is: eat vegan
t. virgin

>>42435896
Sweet reply my man

>>42435884

no need to preach to me, i'm vegan since april 2016, but the point here is to talk about it without any bias, I'm talking about experience, I'm active, I cycle at least 1h a day every day and my HR and blood pressure never being lower, veganism is only superior for people who actually jumped in the pool knowing that could have been really cold

>>42435045
Why don't you not be a faggot and give both diets a try for yourself?

Personally I think low carb makes far more sense but I'm just some fag on the 4chan.

Do an experiment and give each diet 3 months and see what happens.

>>42436027

>no need to preach to me, i'm vegan since april 2016, but the point here is to talk about it without any bias, I'm talking about experience, I'm active, I cycle at least 1h a day every day and my HR and blood pressure never being lower, veganism is only superior for people who actually jumped in the pool knowing that could have been really cold

Understood, legit metaphor btw.

>>42435699
You have that wrong, keto is better for endurance athletes except just prior to competition.

This is what most pro cycling teams are doing now is doing their low intensity training (endurance riding) in low carb states and then in the build phase incorporating more carbohydrates into their diet.

Carbs are good for short bursts of high power, its better to have you bodies lipid metabolism functioning very well for low intensity activity (which is why I think low carb makes more sense for most people).

Sky trains low carb most of the year then eats more carbs when doing shit like interval training or when they race.

It's not difficult to see why if you've ever experimented with it, you lean out super fast and then when you actually start eating carbs again you feel like a rocket ship.

>>42435625
500g a day in carb is what someone training about 20 hours a week should be eating

6 hours a week is considered a 'rest week' for people that do endurance sports and anyone doing only 6 hours a week and eating 500g of carb a day would be a fat fuck

>>42436093

bullshit, i'm eating 250-300g of carbs daily and i'm losing weight since May (26 punds) shifting from 28% bf to 24%, argument invalid, sorry

By experimenting and finding what works best for you.

I know I get sleepy if I eat more then 35-40g of carbs in one sitting, regardless of where they're coming from. Could be a couple big fruits, dense bread, a giant salad, a handful of chips, whatever. I also know that I feel sluggish if I have less than 200g of carbs in a day, but that I seem to lose fat better if I stay right around 210g rather than the 250g macro calculators say I need. Two scoops of any whey into any amount of any liquid makes me piss out of my ass. I feel physically the same whether I drink actual milk or almond milk, but my face has less acne and redness when I drink the latter. I could go on and on.

See what works best for you, experiment. You've only got 65 or so years left, nail your nutrition down now so that you can make the most of them.

>>42436078

A small compromise is adequate for most non professional athletes and exercisers.
Either carb load bi-weekly to fill muscle glycogen stores and increase performance or use a small carb load everyday pre-workout to maintain glycogen stores and prompt the insulin response post-workout without leaving keto for any significant amount of time.

Going from working out fasted to working out fasted on keto, to working out with coconut oil + coffee pre-workout on keto, to working out with 15g dextrose, coconut oil + coffee pre-workout has made a huge difference to energy levels and performance.

I would speculate that's how carbs are supposed to be used; as rapid access fuel for intense activity (hunting) with your main energy sources being fat the rest of the time.

Remember the wise teaching of the ketard guru kids .

Fat is good
Carbs are bad
But why
Because
They turn to Fat :^)

>>42436093
>eating 500g of carb a day would be a fat fuck
>bullshit, i'm eating 250-300g of carbs daily

hmm

>>42436165

>They turn to Fat

Yeah, they do, in the presence of insulin, which will be in the body in large amounts with a continuous ingestion of lots of carbs.
Fats consumed with carbs get stored as fat, again, because of the insulin.
If you eat fat without carbs, there's no insulin response, the fat gets burned for fuel.

Does anyone really not know what a healthy diet is?

Everyone knows vegetables are healthy.
Everyone know complex carbohydrates are good, but refined carbohydrates are bad.
Everyone knows meats are typically good for you so long as they're not drenched in fat.
Everyone knows moderate dairy intake is good for white people.
Everyone knows eggs are good for you in moderation.

Like everyone can pick out a healthy diet given arange of foods, it's just autismals on either side who want to turn this whole debate into one of absolutism, instead of balance.

>>42436189
If your TDEE is 3500 and you eat one of these 3500 Kcals diet which one will make you store fat ?

A. 80% carbs / 10% Protein / 10% Fat
B. 50% Carbs / 20 % Protein / 30% Fat
C. 5% Carbs / 20% Protein / 75 % Fat

Answer : None my dude

But Diet A and B will get you sufficient glycogen for high intensity exercise , allowing you to efficiently raise your heart rate for prolonged period of time and perform better in literally any sports .

Diet C will just fuck up up your blood lipid profile big time .

>>42436200

>Everyone knows

No one knows shit absolutely in the world of nutrition. There are very few proven causal links regarding anything.

>>42436171
I'm only 68 kg and only do around 6 hours of cardio a week .
My TDEE is around 2900
I can easily get 500g of carbs and still have 100g + protein + still have my Omega 3 and enough fat for my fat soluble vitamin .

>>42436230

>Diet C will just fuck up up your blood lipid profile big time

According to what?

Here is at least one study that found that a ketogenic diet improved, or at least did not adversely affect, the blood lipid profile of healthy weight men.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12097663

Fat is not bad for your blood and neither is dietary cholesterol. Carbs on the other hand...

>>42436250
Your TDE is not 2900 calories

you only get retarded numbers like that by using stupid online caloric counters

If you are eating 500g of carb a week with only 6 hours of cardio you are 20% bf

Your TDE is 2200-2300

>>42436317
My TDEE is 2900 because i'm not a fucking nerds sitting at home .
I spend around 6 hours moving at work

>>42436333
you are skinny fat

I guarantee it

>>42436344
I guarantee that your dick tastes magical.

>>42436344
>Ketard damage his metabolism and can't eat more than 1400 Kcals a day
>See people with healthy metabolism
>Can't accept it .

>>42436373

>I don't understand the first thing about ketosis

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>>42435884
Begone green man
Meat is the future

>>42435102
Wow ive never even though of this argument. vegans always come up with anti meat arguments because our teeth are not as sharp as carnivores etc, but we dont evne have cellulase. We literally arent even abled to digest the most common plant macronutrient in the entire world.

This study was supported by a grant from the Atkins Foundation, New York, NY. Published in abstract form [Sharman, M. J., Volek, J. S., Gómez, A. L., Avery Love, N. G., French, D. N. & Kraemer, W. J. (2001) Fasting and postprandial lipoprotein responses to a ketogenic diet. Am. College Sports Med. 33: S213.]

Literally the Atkin foundation and volek is one of the "scientist"

>>42435045
If you look at the diet of top athletes in the world you get a nice idea of what people eat. Look up what bodybuilders eat a given day, what strongmen eat a given day, what endurance athletes eat and so forth. You'll see they eat a diet of carb, fat, protein and lots of veggies.

>>42436487
If you look at my dick you get a nice idea of what your wife wishes your dick looked like

>>42435102
Holy shit, this basically debunks all my cunty vegan friends on Fabkook

>>42436441
I'm not VG, but nice rebuttal

>>42436518
I strongly suggest you read this response:
>>42435193
before you go on spouting erroneous things on a public social media platform where you can't hide behind anonymity.

>>42435519
Holy shit, are we having a civalized argument?

I can't remember the last time I saw this happen on 4chan. I might've been on /bant/ last time I saw this.

>>42435045
can't go wrong with eating at subway or mcdonalds, it's perfectly balanced food

>>42435519
>the point isn't to show a statistically significant
because you can't with that sample size

>this group was "only" 14 people
yeah, still irrelevant

>>42435045
Eat a good balance of carbs/protein/fat, and adjust from there based on how you feel

>>42436650
Yeah, I know it's kind of against the norm here.

>>42436715
>because you can't with that sample size

Oh I am quite aware of this, and that is why I am not trying to convince you of a specific digestive rate. I am simply responding to the question of whether or not it is physically possible for humans to digest cellulose. That can quite easily be shown with research such as this. Do you see my point? Am I misunderstanding yours?

Awaiting your response nigga

>>42436588
Nibba you don't even know how stupid my friends are, I wanna out-stupid them

>>42435045

Learn what the different macronutrients actually do for you, and adjust based on your own goals. There is no "one size fits all" answer.

>>42435045
>>People who advocate for High Carb Low Fat are vegans funded by the grain and vegetable industries
1) this claim can't possibly be true and it's meant to paint veganism in a bad light. Animal flesh requires to be fed 5-25 times the amount of grain it yields (in calories) depending on the type of meat (chicken is the lowest, cow is the highest). A true grain shill would shill for cow meat. If you eat a calorie of grains, he will sell a calorie of grains. If you eat a calorie of meat, he will sell 10 kcal grains on average. But don't take my word for it, Google "flesh to feed conversion ratio" yourself
2) HCLF and veganism aren't the same thing. HCLF is a diet choice, veganism is a moral code. You can eat HCLF and eat some meat, you can be a vegan and do keto.
>>People who advocate Low Carb High Fat are carnivores funded by the dairy and meat industries
No, people who advocate LCHF are people who like butter, cheese and bacon too much and call it a diet, then boast online about their supreme patrician diet that shed them 20 pounds overnight, when in reality all that happened was that they restricted calories by cutting off soda, chips, pizza and cookies from their diet. Put simply, they aren't smart enough to be shills.

>>42439134

>No, people who advocate LCHF are people who like butter, cheese and bacon too much and call it a diet

Do you talk a lot of shit, about things you clearly know little about, in general or is it just keto?

Keto is literally just carb restriction. It does not prescribe anything like eating endless butter, bacon and cheese.
There are a lot of low carb foods that aren't fatty meats and animal products and most people who actually read up on keto before doing it are eating them.

>>42436344
this

>>42436333
post pics to disprove the other guy

spoiler: he won't