/fraud/ - steroids general

No source talk.

Before you ask beginners' cycle/bnc advice, read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index.

If you still have questions after that, post the following:

>Age
>Body fat %
>Lifting experience

M A G A

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28 yrs old, 6". 170lbs.
15% BF
Lifting for a year
squat 225
bench 160
deadlift 270

Is now a good time to start gear? Or should I get my lifts up even more/get down to 10% bf or lower.

pic unrelated

Is anyone on GH here? Has it thickened your fingers up at all or made them look weird?

Do roids give you jaw gains? I hear conflciting statements

>>40393465

So is sdrol from the start together with the tren A a good idea or should I start the sdrol once I quit tren A and then tren E kicks in?

>>40393615
i'm on test and deca and i can swear by my mom my hands and jaw grew a little, noticeable only by me and my girl

>>40393679
how quick did that happen? and no GH?

>>40393608
It's the perfect time nigger. When yr done it'll be summer and you can show off. Bout to hop on myself Friday. Yr the right age and not fat.

>>40393712
>15% bf
>not fat

>>40393708
i'm on my second blast, noticed it one day

started a year ago

>>40393742
age?

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>>40393608
>>40393563
From now on can we include in the OP

>If you're under 15% bf, over 21, and have been consistently for a year or more, go ahead and roid. Otherwise do so at your own risk. Stop asking.

I'm really getting ass pains from this same stupid question over and over.

Yes anon, just roid. It's not that big a deal if you've read the basic information and have a good idea what you're getting into.

>>40393733

I can get down easily nigger. Keto is literally magic. Do you still bulk and cut on a B&C? What's the optimal BF% to bounce between?

>>40393758
i'm 20, about to turn 21

>>40393765
It's far more optimal to bnc on a bnc. As a natty you fuck up your endocrine system much faster, but enhanced you can go hard.

>>40393765
>Do you still bulk and cut on a B&C?
no you permabulk up to 2000lbs 80% bf

>>40393763
>implying the vast majority of anons who ask if they're ready to roid have done any research whatsoever

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>>40393831

Please show me where in the reddit wiki it says at what bf/age/lifts is a good time to start.

There was some shit about getting my bone platelets xrayed or something. But I don't know wtf that even means.

Just wanted to know where I should get my lifts to if I wanted to start out right.

lol

wtf is this shit.

so i have been spending my free time basically unconscious overdosing on pilocarpine right.

and my face now is literally almost normal. i am looking in the mirror, and my head looks so FUCKING TINY now compared to my body. WTF?

>>40393608
>Lifting for a year
>squat 225
>bench 160
I hope those are in kilos

>>40393831
It doesn't matter. We're not here to educate the general public out of their own stupidity and reckless decision making.

>>40394180

without people to look down on you are NOTHING.

We are the only thing that gives your pathetic life meaning.

>>40393922
>getting my bone platelets xrayed or something. But I don't know wtf that even means.
Kek

It's growth plates you mongoloid. But ironically enough there's good evidence higher test will make you taller if e2 is in check.

>>40394128
>160kg bench natty 1 year lifting

Running t3 on cycle to keep bloat and fat gains down?

Kind of scared of it due to how people talk about it eating muscle

>>40394420
I'd be more scared of it fucking up your thyroid

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What can I do to speed up my quad injections?

I use a 25g needle. Ever since I started pinning about ~.75ml it's been taking forever.

I used to pin .5ml twice a week as i'm at cruise, now i'm doing 0.75ml a week and i'm observing the difference. But it takes a lot longer for some reason, i assume from a pressure differential.

i've pinned 2.5+ ml in my quads before numerous times though and don't remember it taking this long.

>>40394564
How long does it take for you to pin 0.75mL? Takes me about 60 seconds to pin 0.5mL with 27g.

What I do to make injections more comfortable is to cap the syringe after drawing the oil in and then putting the syringe in a warm water bath. Heats up the oil slightly and allows it to flow easier. Try it out?

Getting awful cramps from var. Forums suggest it's either dehydration or some mineral/amino deficiency (some recommend pickle juice, some recommend taurine).

Thoughts?

>>40394431
This. Run something dry, Im not as well versed but Winny, Epi, Var or something. I loved Epi before the prohormone ban.

T3 is what they treat thyroid issues with. If youre thyroid isnt messed up now, it will be if you use a bunch of that

>>40394599

dude i live in florida and it's like ~76 F in my apartment lol, so I don't know how much warming up the oil will help but I can try it next time.

pinning 0.75 with a 25g takes maybe 2.5 - 3 minutes.

pinning 0.5 however takes 45 seconds.

I'll watch the stopper as i'm applying a lot of force (more than typical/necessary) on the plunger and there's just zero movement. I have to re-position the needle just to get it to budge.

Just confused because I never had this problem before and I haven't changed injection sites.

>>40394615
You should be taking daily taurine if youre roiding, especially with anything other than Test. Muscles cramps are almost always dehydration or taurine or potassium.

>>40394649
Thank you very much! 3g taurine and 3g potassium ED sound about right? Got that from a little bit of forum searching but I'd appreciate your personal experience.

>>40394724

don't forget the 3kg of water

>>40394724
Ive never really dosed my taurine and postassium

I just take two capsules of each a day, and if for some reason I get a cramp I pound water and up the taurine

No harm in doing a little extra

>>40394615
Cramps or pumps? Where specifically do you usually feel it?

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>>40393558
Weeks 1-10 – 250mg Twice a Week Test
Weeks 1-12 – 0.25mg Arimidex EOD
Weeks 13-14 – Nolva 20mg/twice daily
Weeks 15-16 – Nolva 20mg/day

Anything I'm forgetting for a first cycle bros?

>>40394735
That could also be the cause. I've only been drinking about a half gallon ED (about 1.75kg of water).

>>40394748
Thank you, I'll give this a shot.

>>40394750
Cramps. I love the pumps. So far I feel the cramps in my neck and under my jaw, very uncomfortable.

>>40394757
Looks good m8.

Might wanna throw an oral in there the first few weeks.

>>40394757
Id extend that cycle to at least 12 wks
Youre gonna lose some prime gain time if you stop at 10

>>40394757
What ester of testosterone?

>>40394806
That kinda cramping isn't unheard of. Electrolytes, taurine and water will be your friend.

>>40394848
Any foods with taurine I hate buying supps if I don't have to.

>>40394895

not really. i believe it's something regulated by your body based on potassium and sodium consumption. It's not commonly found naturally in worthy amounts in most foods. it's just been made into a supplement for convenience.

>>40394895
Pretty much every shitty energy drink

Get ur sips in

>>40394895
You can get a kilo for less than $20 on amazon

Bout to ride to the gym post preworkout pumpup music

>>40394757
Are you suppose to take the 0.25mg Arimidex once a week or every day?

>>40395188
EOD = every other day

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Image source: Anabolics 9th Edition by William Llewellyn
Some anon was asking about cutting on deca a few days back. After reading this I'm considering doing it myself for a cutting cycle w/ test. Ideally I would prefer tren except I'm not ready for the sides.
Any input regarding the prolactin control while in deficit or general thoughts?

>been flirting with this grill
>she just saw my 200k ride today and couldnt stop staring

whatever fuck this shit my face is better enough at this point i think that being rich and geared makes up for it. think i am gonna go for it brehs before i fuck a hole in my wall

>>40395545
How rich are your parents?
Do they just give you money?

Thinking of running a keto diet to cut. Same rules as Jamie Lewis lays out with a psmf day, a refeed day, and lots of protein shakes/lean meats during the day with one meal of really fatty meat post workout.

Is it just a meme or what? Anyone currently run this diet?

>>40395726
What will you cycle with it?

>>40395800
Test and deca, plus whatever oral every once in a while.

>>40395800
>>40395819
Mostly interested after reading this blogpost on ketosis and brain health

https://www.jackkruse.com/why-the-epi-paleo-rx-is-stat-paging-your-brain/

That and this cut I haven't been craving carbs but fatty meat nonstop. Might as well go with the flow

>>40395659
Moderately and yes

Lel

>>40394599
Hey peek since you've studied cortisol and it's effects on brain health...

Would you mind checking this out and giving your thoughts?

http://www.ketotic.org/2014/02/the-ketogenic-diets-effect-on-cortisol.html?m=1

I'm wary because of the source website having obvious bias, but I don't see why the data doesn't check out

(This article is also really interesting involving ketosis, brain health and inflammation)

>>40395835

Interested to see what you make of this.

Tren is life.
Tren is love.

>>40396277
>Sweaty, can't breathe, insomnia, paranoid, ready to blow up at the slightest hint of bullshit and get yourself in trouble

No ty. Might see if TrNE is worth it as a preworkout in the future though

Reminder that if you take supplements or inject steroids then your muscles are fake and you would rather buy them than work for them. You should probably kill yourself desu

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>>40396360
Ok. I'll be sure to feel bad about it for you natty anon

Tons of volume with SSB has made my neck thicker.

It's actually pretty awesome. Makes me look more.swole in clothes. Too bad I'm far to lazy to do neck bridges, I'd be thumbmode

>>40396360
lowkey think its masT posting these

>>40396374
>his muscles look so shit that he has to post someone elses
Are you sure that you should be the one feeling pity for others?

>>40396397
>He's so bored he's trying to trigger people who put chinese mystery hormones in their butts
Yeah I think I'm sure

>>40396409
>chinese mystery hormones

fuckin lold

>>40394848
Thanks friend, I've ordered some taurine and will stay on top of hydration better going forward.

>>40396435
In for bulking on DHB

>>40396348
My dear, you obviously have not been doing your daily scriptural readings. Shame on you:

TREN ACE TRANSFORMATION week 1,, you will feel pumped but insted of bloofy feel of testosterona pump you will have the feeling of pump from the inside of the muscle while the more self knowing individuals who recognize changes fast will notice their face ...yes their face taking a diff look ,,they will be the only ones who notice it ,, it is something you notice personaly since it is only the beggining and no one else that see you will notice ,,they will think you are crazy if you tell them anythign so keep it to yourself,, face iwll start getting the high boxer type of look,,hard to explain ,, it is week one so nothing visual yet aside from pump ...tremendous strength and i mean tremendous! big diff than what you were before ,,and when you will expect to see your midsection bloat...and say something is not right here the belly got to be bloated...you will take your shirt up and notice that no! it is actualy looking tighter!,, yes yes this is week 1! since you are 12% you wont see much more ,,obliqes will start being noticed well and the girl will comliment that this is the area of the body she like the most right before she sucking your cock,, she wil comment on it because she wil be able to see it on you : ),, remember this is after 3-7 injects of trenbolona ace into blood at 100mg every inject

>>40396348
week 2-3 this is when progress being made and you start seeing your body transforms ,, still nothing like a pro bodybuild...nothing like top amatuer....but! you will start noticing that the pecs and delts are seperating,, they reduce fat yet remain full and start getting seperated as in water go into the muscle insted of outside of muscle,, this is a stage where you will still have water between skin and muscle so it wont be to an impressive level seperation wize,,but! the seperation will occure and in this 2-3 weeks try not to be crazy and dont take pictures every day ,, take them few times a weeek not every day you will go nuts,, trenbolona changes are only daily for the single digit fellas and the 8% and under,,so for you since you started 12% and now you are about 10-11.. try to not take many pictures every day because at this bodyfat levels pictures can be deciving ...one time you look great one time you look decent etc ,, not good comparisons,, at the end of this stage you will sit at high single digit sub 10%,, 9-10%

>>40396348
week 4-8... this is when you will start getting comliments not only on how BIG YOU LOOK but you will start hearing the word LEAN ,, you will walk around and you will hear alot of wondering of how you got so lean ,, no one will say skinny ,, no one will say small ,, they will all use the word LEAN ,, lean this lean that,, still not thickly lean ,, the thickly lean comes little after down the road,, in this stage you get the YOU LOOK LEAN MAN comments,, this is when veins start becoming very visible in places you are not used to while sitting watching tv you will see veins on back of legs on forarms on inside of forarms on arms on traps on chest,, everywhere again it depend on how prone to veins you are but you will see the veins you have enhanced! ,,you will also get more serpeated and it will be to a level that when you take pictures you finaly will decide to keep them and wil feel very bad to delete them because they will look very good

week 9 and on ... this is what seperate the REAL bodybuild from the wanna be ,, this is where the true mutation coming into play and you really start looking like magazine fella,, it is when you dont need to flex to see the seperated muscle in all its glory ,, it is when you stand and get compliments all over about how YOU ARE BOTH THICK AND LEAN aka YOU GET INTO A ZONE CALLED RIPPED AND THEN A BETTER ZONE CALLED SHREDDED,

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>taking gh15 as anything more than an n=1

>>40393941
accidental dysmorphia

got too swole without noticing haha

POST PIC FAGGOT

>>40394806
>I've only been drinking about a half gallon ED (about 1.75kg of water).
Nigger 450ml per 10kg of bodyweight is the recommended minimum so if you are no waifish dwarf girl irl you need to chug more.

>>40396146
>(This article is also really interesting involving ketosis, brain health and inflammation)

I agree, thank you for thinking of me and sharing!

I learned a lot after reading this article as well. Most of my research on cortisol is connected with how it affects the brain, and this article is pretty targeted in that it seeks to debunk a myth/meme associated with keto diets that's apparently propagated (mistakenly) by some pretty reputable institutions because they are misguidedly using urinary cortisol measurements for an definitive measure of cortisol clearance.

I think the data/theory checks out as well too. I learned a similar way of thinking (to the way the authors think about cortisol levels) in connection with histamine levels when I was drinking kombucha very regularly (fermented foods are very histaminergic) and was looking at all the factors involved in histamine production and elimination/metabolism and trying to solve the problem of high histamine at both ends (less kombucha for less production, more B1 for better elimination/metabolism).

In the cortisol case, I think this is an important point to show how cortisol is not unambiguously a devil hormone. I still think chronically elevated levels are not good for the masculinized human brain. I don't know enough about keto to understand why lower elimination and higher regeneration rates are GOOD for weight loss except for the fact that this enzyme activity profile is DIFFERENT from the one associated with metabolic syndrome. As is stated in some of the citations, chronically high cortisol production levels are associated with negative outcomes (Cushing's is an example, and "Higher cortisol levels may promote adiposity, insulin resistance, and cardiovascular disease, as observed in epidemiological studies.")

In fairness, the article doesn't comment on any changes in production after keto was adopted, only on regeneration/elimination.

>>40396741
Ikr I chug a half gallon in one sitting, that guy must be dehydrated as fuck.

>>40396772
Did you check out that Jack Kruse article I indirectly linked?

It made a really strong case for ketosis and brain health. I'm still digesting and picking through it, I skimmed through between sets earlier and was extremely impressed.

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>>40396360
lel

>>40396946
>ywn be a qt trap fuqboi

nice tuckjob though

>>40396813
I can only imagine. Fuck, I feel dirty and sticky and sickly if I did not piss clear at least three times by noon kek

>>40396959
actual girl, rumor has it

would smash either way, no regrets

she even lurks /fraud/ afaik, if you read this ayyy bby lemme whisper in ya ear

You guys think I can do better (nicer/hotter/kinkier/bimbo-ier) than my ex?

>>40397165
post face

>>40397169
I deleted my pics of her. Everyone here calls her ugly tho idk

>>40395531
most of the time you only need prolactin control at higher dosages 500+
pramiplexol (ed) or cabergolin(e5d-ew) are the goto drugs for that but they can have nasty sides of there own.
for a cuttingcycle 250is more than enough. only test is also more than enough except if you going for contest prep cut...

>>40395726
i am on a keto cut since 5 weeks. doing great in it also on 250test.
only downside so far seems to be dry skin. and you can supprisingly cook a lot of yummie meals. just had a tuna ham pizza and chockolate strawbeeries withwipped cream

>>40397177
She wasn't that great looking

You definitely could do a lot better. It would be hard to do worse, actually.

>>40397243
Maybe I'm just really into plastic bitches

>>40397249
Actually that's the real origin story of my trip.

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>>40397249
I mean even in that sense she's still 5/10 and a complete bitch

Solve whatever fiscal ties you have and delete any and all contact info.

If you're just after someone that looks good and you have sexual comparability with, that shit is easy. Especially when you're a long time roider with a 6'5" frame. Move the fuck on already

>>40397249
I thought you were into twinks for $$$

>>40397264
That's good advice, mostly because a lot is true. Word duder, same advice good friends give; this board included, I guess. Thanks.

Gonna go play this hardcore lady monk I made in d3 #l8r

Posted in the last thread and didn't get a response but;
I'm planning on running sdrol at 10 mg before a con that I have coming up but I know that I'll have a few beer at said con so how long before hand I end my cycle so I don't fuck over my liver.
I'm also planning on taking 500mg of tudca, 100mg of milk thistle and 100mg of Nac for liver support.

>>40397333
You don't even have to sto, one day of drinking won't destroy your liver, especially if it's on the level of"a few beers"

Otherwise you could literally just skip the sdrol on the days in question.

Bodybuilders be thinking their livers made of glass or some shit. Fucker can take a beating, just don't extend that beating too long.

>>40397284
Where you stayin bimbs? I thought you had l8trd at all your people in the Oly area

>>40397504
Do I know you?

>>40397571
I've been following the ballad of bimbo for about 6 months now

>>40397604
Oh I'm glad I got my e2 in check. Things seem so much cooler. Hopefully less drama now and more getting big.

I just realized the itchiness all over my body might not be urticaria but hair falling out of my head thanks to frauding, causing the itch

I have a job interview tomorrow as a personal trainer. Any advice from my fellow frauders?

>>40397741
Tell them you're knowledgeable about steroids

>>40397773
thanks for the laugh m8

>>40397180
Cheers. Most likely I'll run 500mg test and 200-250 mg deca depending on whats available at the time.

>>40397381
I've just seen people post about getting pancreatitis off of sdrol and the main thing they all have had in common was they drank. Could be a coincidence or it could their liver support or lack of. Anyway thanks for the advice, I'm not going to worry about it.

>>40397741
Tell them that you only believe in using the trx, the bosu ball and kettle bells to be able to reach your size. And that everyone should be eating 300 grams of protein a day, man and woman

>>40397741
Tell them you can cop genuine var, sell clients altoids with a crude cock carved into the top instead.

>>40397922
I have unironically memed NYRfags into believing my delts and lats come solely from pushups and chinups. Takes a special kind of idiot though.

About to run my first cycle, thinking of doing 500 test-e a week. Thoughts?

Also I know I need nolvadex and arimidex. Any info on the dosages, I don't understand the eod (every other day but what does it mean)?

>>40398031
Read the fucking wiki you illiterate chimp

Don't fucking reply to me either

>>40394204
> there's good evidence higher test will make you taller

citation needed

>>40398088
Men are taller than women :^)

>>40398088
spot the manlet
>>40398125
and the lanklet

>>40398171
6' king of the manlets

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>>40398197
Not exactly bro...

>>40398225
:^)

>>40398070
(You)

>>40398031
>I don't understand the eod (every other day but what does it mean)?
wow

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200 lbs
6'0"
16% bf
1st cycle, test E 500mg a week for 12 weeks. On week 4.
I consumed 4300 cals total yesterday because i went to a good friends party (only 1 shot of alcohol though) and i feel awful about it.
I'm eating at a smaller surplus of 2800-3100 a day on days i workout (60 min lifting , 20-45 mins cardio) 6 days a week.
Would there be any benefit of me going extra low on the cals today or maybe dropping back say a hundred cals a day for a week for my lack of leaving humanity behind?

>>40398031

I gotch you senpai EOD or End of day is how often you inject, so 7 days a week have fun :^)

Getting tested for low test Monday, wish me luck brehs

>>40398390
You'll be fucking fine.

If literally 100% of the surplus was turned into fat, it would still be less than a pound in total. Stop being a baby. It's weeks, not days.

>>40394757
don't start with 0.25mg eod, might be too much

so Im new at this. Why is it always delts, quads and glutes the injection sites? You can inject in any muscle right?

>>40398429
Thanks brah thats what i was tellin myself but needed to hear it to make sure i wasnt making excuses

>>40398472
because those are the easiest to inject in terms of accessability, painlevel, few nervs and veins.
you can inject in everthing but it takes a lot more guts and tolerance to put 3ccs in chest/calvs/forarms....

>>40398472
They're easy

>>40398472

you can even inject subcutaneously

basically anywhere that isnt major bed of nerves and never into a vein/artery.

the delts, quads, and glutes are injection sites commonly chosen as an artifact of old medical practice where certain things we know to be not true now were believed in regards to depot injection of medicines.

They are also easy to reach, and in most cases do not have any major nerves or arteries present that you are likely to hit.

ventrogluteal (hip) is my favorite. Its a great site if youve got gear with bad PIP because its not really actively involved in any of the movements you will do in a gym, so it won't cripple you like bad PIP in the quads or glutes can.

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I'm confused about arimidex, nolvadex, clomid.

Do I need all of these things? I know that arimidex and nolvadex are both aromatase inhibitors and reduce estrogen sides, but people seem to have both on hand for some reason(?)

clomid is supposed to make your balls grow back to normal so I guess i need that.

>>40398531
>I know that arimidex and nolvadex are both aromatase inhibitors
no

time to do more research

>>40398527
>>40398530
thanks for the info

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what happens if i'll draw and inject with the same needle? Let's say a 23 gauge needle.
>inb4 you'll die

Melbourne bros.

Hook me up? I can offer anything you want know a lot of shady characters. TV's, phones. All brand new I get them for free I'd swap for gear

>>40398540
Sorry, Nolvadex is a SERM

>>40398531

nolvadex is not an aromatase inhibitor, it is a SERM

Nolvadex and clomid are very similar drugs.

Arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor which will interfere with the conversion of testosterone to estradiol to a significant degree.

SERMs "block" the estrogen from binding to the receptor, sort of like how customs attempts to block your chinese drugs from entering the country.

The degree to which you need either class of drug is debatable. Aromatase inhibitors are useful if you're using large dosages of an aromatizing steroid (such as testosterone, or dbol). SERMs im not a fan of and many of them are nasty drugs.

>>40398560
You'll die from sepsis. Why do you want to risk it? there's no reason to even do that. Buy 200 needles for $20 you cheap autist fuck.

If you think it's worth $20 to be safer then don't do it. If you'd rather save $20 and risk dying from bacteria then do it. In the end it's your hoice

>>40398565

lol if you're not willing to pay money for gear like every other person you're probably a NEET and the chances of you knowing any "shady" characters in that case is close to zero.

>>40398578
If you hate SERMs then what is your PCT? Or do you cruise?

Currently 22 and 16% bf. Once I got 10% bf I'm considering cycling 100mg test-e and 300mg EQ E3.5D for 12 weeks. I'm going to be mostly doing cardio and bodyweight stuff with some judo. Not looking to put on too much size, just performance gains. Is this a waste?

>>40398560

nothing. I've done it before, but i dont recommend making a practice out of it.

Chiefly, needles are blunted very easily and very quickly, like being forced through a rubber stopper, so then when you go and poke yourself with the same needle it is considerably blunter and will cause more trauma at the injection site leading to higher chance of scar tissue if you keep that practice up in the long term.

Its also not as hygienic.

>>40398589

HCG is what you should use to wake the balls up from their slumber.

SERMs alone i debate the effectiveness of.

>>40398612
I've read explicit advise from multiple sources that you shouldn't use HCG on a post-cycle therapy because it suppresses the body's own HPTA

>>40398560
I literally do it all the time

what happens is you waste time because it takes forever to draw with an injection needle

>>40398639

indeed it does, but its a moot point - if you're coming off anabolic steroids you are almost certainly suppressed at that point, and the major doorstop in recovery is the lack of response from the leydig cells in the testes.

the only reliable method of fixing this is large dosages of HCG.

I dont particularly care to call it "post cycle" therapy, you can call it peri-cycle therapy if it makes you feel better about it, I just call it fixing atrophied and unresponsive testicles.

fix that, and suddenly "pct" isnt really a concern.

>>40398668
Then to recap:

___
Use [steroid]

Use HCG on cycle and continued for a couple weeks after cycle(?) to restore natural testosterone levels

Dose arimidex while on cycle 0.5mgs twice a week during cycle to avoid estrogen sides
___

is that everything?

>>40398703
forgot one lesson:

fuck nolvadex

>>40398472
because my tiny needles do not fit through my fat layer elsewhere huehue

>>40398668
or just use triptorelin

correct dosage: bombing siren wakeup call for your balls
idiot dosage: chemical castration, darwin as fuck way to clean the gene pool

>>40398703

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/threads/187172-One-of-the-ONLY-PCT-clinically-documented-by-Dr-Michael-Scally-(a-must-read)

>>40398749
I really like the way you think.

>>40398749

you can play with triptorelin if you like. Some do. I prefer to stick to the stuff that is actually used to reverse ASIH in medicine.

To the best of my knowledge I have only ever seen one case where a guy who use triptorelin gave long term updates. Consistent with the literature, he seemed to have a great "flare" effect for the first few months, some 9 months later however his testosterone was below normal again.

Thats not me saying it doesn't work, or that it does, but there simply isn't enough reliable evidence to conclude that it works the way people say it "should" work.

HCG on the other hand, has been used for decades by both medical professionals and bodybuilders.

I could be happily convinced of its use if someone actually cared to keep a proper PCT journal with long term followup, but with steroid users they are off the shit for a month or two and then they get right back on. You never really know if someone recovered or what is going on with their body because they are constantly using drugs.

>>40398586
not him but melb here willing to pay.

do you sell?

>>40398793
So what is your standard PCT protocol for long term b&c'ers? HCG with little to no SERMs?

>>40398603
Anyone?

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How high (in ng/dl) is too high for a cruise? 1000? 1200? 1500?

>>40398831
Read the link he posted

Blast HCG for 16 days
100 Clomid for 45 days
20 Nolva for whatever it says, 60? Don't remember

You can do the standard
100/100/50/50
40/40/20/20

if you're scared of high doses of Clomid, but aside from shit sides Clomid is great

>>40398831
250mg test e per week

having to be at like fucking 100mg a week going to those retarded piece of shit specialists, made me feel fucking subhuman. never dropping below 250 again in my low test life unless i am forced to like fuck.

>>40398603
>>40398853
I've got no experience with EQ, however lots of athletes seem to like it because of increased endurance.
Extend it to at least 20 weeks and watch hemotacrit and RBC count

>>40398750
Thanks kangaroo.

FUCK, if i follow that PCT then I will have to spend $200 on HCG alone

>>40398853
Is it your first cycle?

>>40398869
When your lipids arent fucked up from the blood test you've been getting regularly since you are a safe and responsible steroid user

>>40398883
>>When your lipids arent fucked up from the blood test you've been getting regularly since you are a safe and responsible steroid user
:^)

>>40398878
Gee, if only it was money well spent on something important, like the things that make you a man.

>>40398902
no he'd rather have those new sw4g air jordans

>>40398883
Lipids are a bit dodgy bc I ran anavar for a while, but rbc and haematocrit are fine

Only transitioned to first cruise four weeks ago

>>40398870
The thing is that 100 clomid sounds like a retarded dosage. Which is why I wondered if it should be ran in lower dosages

>>40398874
Yeah can't wait to get my natty levels back after this cycle. If PCT sucks ass I'll just b&c till my heart gives out

>>40398812

not currently. In the near future, different story.. Won't say much more on that for obvious reasons.

>>40398831

in the link i posted. I believe in, and have successfully used, large dosages of HCG to get the nuts working. SERMs can come after that, but personally I doubt their utility overall.

for long term b&cers? I dont get this... if you're b&cing then you're not really concerned about getting off. If you are getting off, then your primary concern is getting your nuts working pronto, regardless of how much drugs you took or for how long you took them. the only difference is guys who have been on for a very long time might need heavier and longer treatments.

Scally's power pct protocol is actually very conservative compared to some of the HCG treatment dosages ive seen in the medical literature for this purpose (treating Aanabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism)

>>40398929
>have successfully used, large dosages of HCG to get the nuts working.

That's interesting. So do you use HCG during the actual cycle or no? Just use it strongly after the cycle is over?

I was attracted to the idea of using HCG during cycle so that my balls never shrink that much in the first place.

>>40398793
was more memeing on the fact that unprepared idiots could selfcastrate with it conveniently kek, but you are right, no sure way to know long term. for me it works though, by the time my test would have maybe been lower again i had already forced it back up to lmaosupraphysiological levels.

>>40398924
Why do people keep saying this?

100 Clomid for 2 weeks and then 50 for two weeks has been standard dosage for years. I've done it and it was fine. Some backne and a little moody that's it.

Above 100 is dangerous I GUESS but Clomid is a fucking awesome drug. You could go 50 for all 4 weeks, and people have had success with that.

>>40398904
This is how I view 90% of /fit/

>>40398908
Well for me personally I'm on 200mg a week and my test is 1000+ (it's overdosed as shit). It's a bit higher than I would like but I'm at a magic balance of no backne, no moodiness, no fucked bloods, little to no AI needed and still have gains.

Anything more or less and all of the above is fucked up for me. 150mg of test made me break out like a mother fucker, really weird.

got a referral for private bloods
got a source on sst
got the money in the bank (got to xfer to crypto)

only thing stopping me is the fact i'm not as strong and lean as i want to be heading into first blast

the sweet sweet temptation grows day by day, is it really as good as everyone of /fraud/ does say?

500mg/w test e, 12 weeks

>>40398972
>This is how I view 90% of /fit/
conservative guess my friend, jesus christ some people should be culled in the most heinous ways possible *incoherent old man rambling*

>>40398956

generally i go - last injection - next week start using hcg.

you can use small doses of hcg on cycle to prevent atrophy.....I'm not convinced for the purposes of re-establishing normal function thats its as effective as the power pct method. Some swear by it though, so w/e

normally when ive used hcg on cycle because my boys were visually bothering me, ive still done the power pct at the end of the cycle.

most important is that you do actually use HCG, attempting to recover with SERMs alone.... personally i think thats completely useless

>>40398972
Thought I read some study that was posted on reddit that 25mg of clomid was more than enough to do its job.
Not sure if it's true or just speculations by some pseudo-intellectual redditors

>>40399015
enough to show measurable effect. NOT enough to do an optimal job. reddit often confuses the two.

>>40399011
HCG source in aus?
sst vendor im looking at doesnt provide

>>40399047

I dont think source naming is allowed on here. You could give me your email or something. The source im thinking of is really obvious anyway, they even have their own website.

>>40399078
Yeah I just realised I was asking for a source in /fraud/, I dun goofed.
I can't think of any sources with their own website, so I'll just try dig deeper. Thanks anyway though

>>40398869
Beyond physiological range if you're not a professional bodybuilder or athlete.

>>40399091

heres a hint, its two words combined into one and the first starts with a and the second starts with j

they are really prominent. Not joking they are probably millionaires at this point, and it drives the feds nuts.

>>40398998
It's as good as you make it. If you work hard it'll be dramatic, if not you'll end up slightly less dyel.

>>40398883
Yup. First time. I know the normal beginner cycle is test-e 500mg/week, but I wanted something focused more on athletic performance than sheer size.

Planning to incorporate slin for the first time soonish. Should be interesting.


>>40399101

oh hai

>>40399101
if the feds are going nuts over them should i be browsing their site on TOR?

>>40399134
feds only worry about the suppliers not really the buyers unless we're talking about a huge order

>>40399132

whats up alb long time no post

>>40399134

i mean that would be a smart thing to do in any case

>>40396277
enjoy your wrecked collagen synthesis and looking like a 60 year old when you are 30

>>40399153

yeah, I lurk less often than usual, this place and all

>>40399151

Not really. I've had friends get roughed up for 2 fucking vials.

>>40399119
I'd never advocate someone doing anything other than test for their first cycle so I'll pass on that question.

You know depending on dosage and diet you don't always balloon up on test only right?

>>40395531
few days ago I was asking about cutting with something like 100mg test / 200mg deca
but now is that pic how reliable, the "about half as muscle building as test on equal dosage" is kinda off putting for deca for anything else than minimal joint support @ 100-150mg weekly

also second question, how will adding finasteride affect on roids effectiveness or does it just reduce DHT in prostate/scalp?

>>40399199
Wasn't sure of that. EQ appeals because of the endurance gains and the high quality of muscle. If I can get decent results doing lots of cardio and bodyweight stuff using just test, I'll just do that.

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>>40399207
>but now is that pic how reliable, the "about half as muscle building as test on equal dosage" is kinda off putting for deca for anything else

>>40399222
I don't know much about EQ so again I won't give you bad info just to see myself type.

Having said that I'm cruising on 200mg test, staying bloof free and making gains.

If you took 250-400 with a clean diet and your e2 in check I'm sure you could gain some good size and strength without blowing up.

>Bodyweight

But why tho

>>40399184
>Not really. I've had friends get roughed up for 2 fucking vials.

Obviously they seize anything illegal. But I doubt using TOR would make a difference.
Just unlucky that the package got examined by customs or because of the source being a fuck up

I remember when I picked up my package from the post office and the package smelled like fucking oil.
Turns out that a 20ml vial cracked inside and left a mess. Not sure if the customs either didn't care or if it wasn't cracked back then

>>40399240
I work weird hours which limits my gym access. Also prepping for military service (not USA), and that is what I will be doing in training so that is what I want to focus on.

>>40393679
It's called being bloated.

>>40394641
Do you rotate injection sites? If you've pinned your quad that many times you might have built up scar tissue which is why you feel so much force against the plunger.

>>40399240
What are your test levels like for cruising on 200 a week?

>>40399258
Well do what you gotta do.

It's not optimal, in either dosage and regime, but low dose test and bodyweight training will definitely build solid muscle for you.

Again, I'm very conservative and believe lifting is a marathon and not a sprint so introducing one chemical at a time over months rather than going YOLO is more my speed.

I'm sure there's some YOLO posters that will chime in though

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I want to run a cycle. I'm 6'3" 195 pounds roughly 15% bodyfat. Everything I've read says that I'll lose all my gains after a cycle within a year even with proper PCT amnd continuing to train and diet. So lets say I roided until I was 220 pounds at 8% bodyfat. What dose of TRT should I run to maintain that for life? Would 100mg once a week be enough to maintain that? Or would I need closer to 200mg twice a week?

>>40399322
Around 1000 which is apparently high for 200mg.

>>40399533
Your premise is wrong so the rest of your post is moot

>>40399553
What do you mean?

>>40399584
You won't lose all your gains after one cycle that's dumb.

>>40399533
100mg a week is likely to be within normal natty levels for many people especially for a larger guy with greater blood volume. So you may need another compound(steroid, sarm or something gh related) at that dosage if you want to hold a higher limit. Or just up the dose.
You wont necessarily lose your gains, you'll lose size, water and glycogen coming off though, which will look like an apparent increase in bf% as well.

But there's evidence to show you'll have a permanent improvement regardless of whether you stay on or not.

>>40399593
Really? I've been researching for an hour or so a day the past 2 weeks. It seems like everyone ends up right back where they were if they don't cycle again. I'm just trying to get to my natty limit (about 225 at 8%) and maintain that for life.

>>40399322
Pitching in, 200 puts me at 1580

Tfw high responder

>>40399612
that is because everyone on the internet is stupid

>>40399626
True haha. I guess I'll just go for it and if I notice myself losing what I gained, I'll experiment with TRT dosing.

>>40399526
That makes a lot of sense to me. Looks like I'll just be doing 200mg e3.5d then.

>>40399612
research on places besides reddit and (non-/fraud/) /fit/ threads then

>>40399612
>>40399646
You're gonna lose some, sure. But the problem isn't the drugs in your system or lack thereof, it's the motivation to stay natty once you realize how much better being on is. People don't WANT to come off. They don't WANT to cycle, they want to BNC.

Once you go down this path, there is no "just one cycle". Barring medical reasons, once you're on you're on. Don't try and fool yourself and think you'll stop once you've hit your imaginary and arbitrary weight and bf% numbers. You won't. It'll never be enough. The ride never ends.

>>40399721
I already know in my heart that I'll end up at least cruising for life. Probably 1 or 2 blasts a year. But I'll see how my first year of just a cycle or 2 goes first.

wtf just found out by chance that gf has bought me wrongly sized clothes (she often does shopping for me cause store credit through work) for the last year. slightly too big when bulking/blasting, slightly too small when cutting/dnp. way to fuck with my dysmorphia you twat, although i think, or hope, she meant well all in all.

aint sayin shes a swole digger but she aint messin with no small nigger

>>40399721
Gonna copypasta this to shatter newfriend delusion.

>>40399758
Not sure if to laugh or violently shake my head lmao

>>40399739
Ok as long as you know.

My advice for post cycle is to be even MORE dedicated to diet and lifting. You'll be depressed and will lose motivation. Maybe even start drinking or partying more because hey you're sexy now why not? That's the slippery slope that leads to hangovers and excuses and lost gains

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>>40399758
>aint sayin shes a swole digger but she aint messin with no small nigger

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>>40399612
>my natty limit (about 225 at 8%)

>>40399612
Post exact calculation that led to this estimation of your natty limit. Genuine scientific curiosity, not trolling.

>>40400167
http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

>>40400220
Fuck, I knew being a wristlet would bite my ass at some point.

How long until PIP stops happening? I'm three pins into TRT, and I got pretty obnoxious PIP each time (felt like bad squat DOMS).

>>40399758
Maybe she was trying to get clothes you would grow/shrink into?

>>40396861
>Did you check out that Jack Kruse article I indirectly linked?

No, sorry, can't find what you're talking about. Interested in reading about the brain inflammation stuff - that was why I was attacking the histamine problem as I alluded to >>40396772. Doing so improved my sleep quality (and thereby recovery) a TON.

Ctrl+F brain (or ctrl+F kruse) didn't yield any results - maybe I'm dense but I can't see it.

>>40400462
Where are you injecting? I didn't get pip in delts and glutes after about the fourth injection in each one but I always get pip in quads.

Anyone used "tri tren" before?
How often should you pin it?

>>40400546
What esters are in it?

>>40400462
I've literally never had PIP.

What can you possibly be doing different than me I wonder

>>40400462
>Maybe she was trying to get clothes you would grow/shrink into?
yeah thats kind of the point but she did it in a way that had me not reach my goal in the estimated timeframe, making me think i should up dose and calories/cut harder instead of trusting my judgement. ah whatever, it helped me in the long run, just seems shady lol

>>40400220
>do the math
>wonder if I am some kind of genetic mutant
>facepalm and remember I have been injecting surreal amounts of chemicals into my buttocks for ages

>>40400638
you're injecting vg is my guess

>>40400539
Quads, because I'm new to IM injections and wanted something easy to reach and hard to miss.
Fourth pin is tonight, we'll see how it feels on Saturday.

Hey where's that video of the duder showing people how to inject and he's just bouncing pins around in his pec and bicep and jackhammering a plunger over and over? Fucking hilarious

>>40400546
>"tri tren"

The sustanon of tren?

>>40400829
LMAO found it

Fucking Bostin Loyd

https://youtu.be/Zk0ODrja7YQ

>100% Natural t-shirt

>>40400837
what would be the third ester

>>40400887
Tren Hex

>>40400887
parabolan

>>40400854
This warms my cold heart.

>>40400887
(((mystery ingredient)))

>>40401033
is that shit about leaving an air bubble at the top so you dont waste anything legit??

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>>40400220
Wew maximum weight at 10% is 227

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>>40401079
Do it. I've done it for years and never had a problem. I usually add .3ml of air to each shot otherwise you're wasting ~.2ml or so to deadspace.

>>40401079
If you're talking about when he has air in the syringe while injecting, I'm sure it works but I'm not desperate enough to cling to my $30 test as much as he is.

Then again the shit he injects is probably way more expensive

I DO however pull air into the syringe before I change needles to get the oil that was in the first needle out before I toss it

>>40401088
>tfw you still haven't reached your natty limit even on roids

Top sad

>>40401088
You have me beat by 1lb I shall never recover from the shame.

Also sauce on pic, I implore you.

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>>40401134
I'm 240 right now, I need to cut for summer already I'm tired of being a fatty.

>>40401145
I'll try to find her name

What do with empty vials? Throw them away or do they have any use?

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>>40401088
>those ears and tats

What a waste.

Got a question.

Been on TRT/cruise for a while now.

I was sick 2years ago, and it never really recoverd, my nose is clogged 90% , most days.
My throat i have to couch for a lot every day so i can breath cause it feels like it fills up,
And my lung capacity has decreased dramaticly.
(i used to do a shitload of martial arts though and lift at the same time. so it was huge.

After i went on trt/cruise dose. my heart or around the heart. has felt a slight presure. no pain or anything, and it feels totaly fine (better?) when i train, just my lungs feel shit empty.

Is this from Test. or is this just the combo of, SHIT cardiovasculair work and trt?
I bike to and from the gym aswell 20mins, and i train hard. so id asume my cardio would get better but it doesnt really.

What do.

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>>40401434
>tats
Reeeeeeeeee. Don't talk bad about my alt qt3.14s

>>40401434
how does it feel to be autistic

>>40401527
Pretty good, I don't know how anyone can find gigantic ear gauges attractive.

>be night time
>look almost normal
>"xd cant wait for tomorrow time to hit up bitches am i right!!!"
>go to bed
>wake up
>back to looking fucking retarded

nice

loving this day after day

>>40401239
Please do. Cannot reverse image search on mobile and she literally divides my life in before and after right now lol

>>40401601
you actually can, just paste the URL in the Google image search box and search

it'll pop up a message asking if you actually wanted to search by url

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>>40401615
those are some lewd pictures for a blueboard

>>40401633
its cartoon gimme a break

>>40401633
thats gyno faggot

>>40401601
>>40401613
https://ctrlq.org/google/images/

>>40401659
post more or i'll call mods

>>40401660
I love traps

>>40401684
looks like its made by shad so im certain theres an edit for it.

>>40401421
i sell mine to some local etsy cunt for like a dime apiece because she needs them for crafting elaborate steampunk hipster bullshit. that in mind, no real use for them but unsafely storing small things or providing evidence in case you get your place searched. throw em out.

>>40401689
>tfw sister is one of these larping cosplaying steampunk fucks
yeah I ain't selling her those

>>40401689
>dime a piece
how is that even worth your time

>>40401613
>>40401678
Yeah I meant I cannot access my usual ways of leet pic haxoring on phone, google does not give me much on her. Will prod on though, must acquire new alt qt folder or die trying.

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What do you guys take preworkout for pumps besides carbs. I've been doing Cialis and Viagra and it's bretty gud.

>>40401601
I'm on mobile too but they're posted on the dreamshots Tumblr page.

>>40401615
bump question please!

>>40401713
kek fair enough

>>40401715
i also happen to boink her occasionally

>>40401715
>Not using over 2000 vials a week

Never gonna make it

>>40401720
Hmmm thanks, that could be useful.

>>40401474

bbbump

>>40401737
>having gear so underdosed you need to shoot literal pints of it
never gonna make it either

>>40401767
>Not walking around with an IM drip 24/7
Do you just not want to leave humanity behind?

>>40401780
>not just going IV at that point

>>40401239
Oh fuck

Oh shit

>>40401799
Is an IM drip even possible lol I'm not that kind of biologist

>>40401732
Look up what free testosterone is and go from there friendo

>>40401812 I had a feeling you'd show up.

>>40401752
Here's what I've got.

https://imgur.com/a/e21Ct

>>40401780
>not...
feck you have me beat. we /mutant/ nao

>>40401799
use IV tren drip, post results *cough*

>>40401812
behold, he hath been summoned by the sheer might of shortlocked wenches

>>40401868
Awesome, thanks. No name but enough pics to ruin my evening plans.

>tfw bigger chest and probably arse than her
Life finds a way.

>>40401735
>indirectly paid in pocket change for sex
Most backhanded compliment of the century.

Wtf is wrong.

Brewed bold cyp at 150mg/ml
1%BA
20%BB
70%EO
30% MCT

Fucking pip every time... I tried cutting 1 ml with 0.5ml castor oil and still pip...

What is wrong?

>>40402476
use accetone instead of MCT. go for the burn baby

>>40402476
>Fucking pip every time
>Bold Cyp

Sounds normal m8

>>40402528
this

i do however get less pip using gso but a) that is anecdotal as fuck and b) pleasant cypionate has yet to be invented

>>40402502

Don't understand. MCT is a good carrier oil.

>>40402528

Hm, thought it can be done without pip...

>>40402596
Wishful thinking. It can be reduced from crippling to annoying but entirely without? Nah.

>>40402596
im memeing ofc why MCT over other oils though

>>40399229
10/10 post. Really got your message across.

>>40402671
not every retarded post deserves a proper answer

>>40400474
https://www.jackkruse.com/why-the-epi-paleo-rx-is-stat-paging-your-brain/

Your ctrl+f game is weak my man.

This one is far better than the other, the guy's entire blog is mind blowing.

>>40402628
Okay, thanks. Gonna have to get used to it then.

>>40402644
It's the smoothest. Great for pinning with slin pins. And no omega 6 ;)

>>40400854
>Waving his arm around with a needle jabbed an inch into his bicep
And he complains about scar tissue lmao.

>>40402698
I don't see how it's retarded. Care to enlighten?

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Feelin' super productive today, lads

Slept for the past day or so

Think I'm finally over the bronchitis -- well, mostly

Decided just to upgrade newbfs membership at his gym to switch over instead of my own, as its the same cost but with more privledges (catch being I can only go with him, but he frequents the place so I should be good). Doesn't update til next month, but that's probably for the best as my lungs are still rattling during cardio. Dumbbells at home in le mean time

'Ight, boring bits of diary aside here's a recent gem of degeneracy for you guys:

>at walmart near close
>in bathroom
>manager comes in early demanding i come out theyre 'clearing out'
>shes incredibly aggressive, to the point shes likely acting as loss prevention and not just trying to gtfo
>annoyed af
>decide to fuck with her
>fake cry in stall
>say i think im having a miscarriage (i mean, i know wtf its like now, not hard to re-act)
>she obviously doesn't believe this
>she continues to harrass me to gtfo
>i just so happen to have fake blood in my purse
>pour it down my legs
>waddle out crying
>shes baffled
>immediately changes demeanor
>tries to get me a wheelchair
>i insist on leaving on my own two feet, but first spend as much time acting confused and going in/out of the washroom to waste her time
>walk out into the parking lot
>left a bag full of wrappers in the stall, no where to even pretend to hide it anyway
>get half way through lot and hear "stop, thief!" As someone grabs my shoulder
>its just newbf joking, having randomly come to get me¿¿¿
>leave with lols

I mean yes I'm a huge bitch to that manager but also fuck her

Probably made a good story for most retarded shit walmart custies do for the break room

Also I've quit doing drugs. I mean, beyond hormonal based ones, kek

newfriend here, how dangerous are steroids really?

>>40402935
missed a lot of your diary,
you got pregnant and now you unpregnant again?

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>>40402935
Hi ESTP

What did you end up settling on to try and feminize yourself more? We had a good discussion on transdermals a few threads ago that might be interesting to you if you're applying hormones topically at all.

>>40403031

We are all junkies now. Once you do it you only crave more

Calipers have me at about 18%bf. Is it worth leaning out down to 15% or below for my first cycle? I've got everything on hand for a basic 14week 500 test e with a 4wk dbol kickstart, including all my ai/pct with even letro on hand just to be safe.

5'8" 195lbs 3 years natty lifting. Only this heavy because of the winter bulk.

>>40403031
Everyone who has ever taken steroids is going to die

>>40403048
Yes, the leaner you are, the harder you can bulk. Plus more insulin sensitivity, a great plus.

>>40402728
Oh lmao, I was ctrl+f-ing WITHIN the ketotic article (which is what I thought you meant by indirectly linking). Will check this out later tonight, thanks.

>>40403031
steroids made me gay

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>>40403046
Hey peek gonna link it again in case you missed it. Don't need your thoughts just felt it was a really amazing read that deserves sharing.

https://www.jackkruse.com/why-the-epi-paleo-rx-is-stat-paging-your-brain/

>>40403082
>>40403104
RIP

Oh well enjoy the meaty blondes

>>40403033
I had a 'tubal pregnancy' and miscarried

>>40403046
I was just planning on buying the same shit as the trannys are and fiddling dosage/watching levels til I find a happy medium, but I'll see if I can dig that discussion up. Thanks for the info senpai

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>>40403133
RIP lil estp 2017-2017

never forget

>>40403102
Can confirm.

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IZ THREAD DED

;_;

>>40403384
idk, is estp gone yet?

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>>40403133
>that discussion
>>40378486
Grandpa had introduced me to the concept in connection with DHEA but I don't see why it wouldn't work for IGF-1/estrogen/whatever traps take.

>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/10.1210/endo.139.2.5762?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3Dpubmed&#sthash.vva7TTuV.dpuf
Bear in mind that I know very little about breasts and their morphology/development but the following quote from this study stuck out to me:

>our study demonstrates for the first time the stimulatory androgenic-like effect of DHEA on the mammary gland, which not only resulted in a complete reversal of the ovariectomy-induced atrophic changes of the mammary gland but also led to a profuse lobuloalveolar development. In addition, we have also demonstrated the potent stimulatory effect of DHT, a nonaromatizable androgen on the growth of the rat mammary gland, thus indicating that the above-described effects are mediated through the androgen receptor.

My initial guess/understanding is that androgens would inhibit breast growth in women but this seems to suggest that DHT stimulates it. So maybe the transdermal DHEA discussion isn't as irrelevant as I thought it might be. Again, you'll need to do your own research because I might be missing something huge here (and also don't know how to compensate for the fact that these findings were done on menopausal rats kek).

Very weird study/finding, especially since androgen insensitive women are usually said to have larger breasts. And anti-androgens are associated with breast growth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicalutamide#Other_uses

Puzzling. Probably something to do with the specifics of the particular rat that explains the differences. I hope you'll share the fruits of your research here when you start digging into this all.

>>40403121
Definitely enjoyed, thanks.

>>40403280
We called it 'sesame' because it was the size of a sesame seed ahah

I actually had some distinct maternal instinct for it, which I previously did not imagine I'd get. Preggo hormones are quite a new playing ground, I have to admit. I kind of think it would've been a girl. Not sure why, it was just the prevelant hunch I got. I was also very certain I was accurately aware of exactly which blood clot was the baby when I miscarried. Probably all instinctual pregnancy hormone induced delusion, but it was a really unique experience. I think I loved it, in my own way. Weird as that sounds...

>>40403401
Thanks again peek, I'll definitely look into it more. I'm really baffled why more research isnt put into this for women in such an appearance-centric society

I'm probably going to start a log blog/progression &findings type thing with pic timelines once I start, as a few other boards I've discussed this on were also curious

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>>40403490
>I'm really baffled why more research isnt put into this for women in such an appearance-centric society
Are you really?

I'll admit to outliers but by and large most women are incapable of any self thought and just follow trends.

>>40403490
Got any new pics of that THICC ass?

>>40403594
Even if you want to perpetuate the 'women cant do anything for themselves' r9k tier meme, why would men not promote sexier women? Lots of women do crazy diets, routines, surgery, hours of make up etc. And lots do male steroids to achieve that 'instagram model body' -- so even if its just for the sake of fitting in or to fulfill a trend, why would the opposite hormonal path or feminizing result not be considered?

There's such little information in contrast to male hormones. Maybe it's because men are more 'forced' to work on the body where as women have make up, wider fashion choices, etc to hide behind... but shit

Dat bdd is driving me up a wall over this, hard to see how there is not more online record available of women facing the same... expecially in the bodybuilding/steroid community, where not everyone ends up appreciating the masculizing effects of their longer term endeavors

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GIV NU THREAD LINK !

>>40403727
>where as women have make up, wider fashion choices, etc to hide behind
Women don't need muscles to be attractive. They have to work out 1/10 as hard as men. Meanwhile modern standards women have are so outlandish that it has driven the new gym culture we live in, which is pushing some men to use roids to get ahead.

>>40403751
>>40403751
>>40403751
>>40403751
>>40403751

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>>40403727
For one people are selfish.

Two, most juicers just hook their fb up with var and call it a day.

Three, the effects of estrogens aren't necessarily like 'opposite' androgens. You're probably going to get smoother skin, more water retention, and maybe MAYBE better fat deposit patterns.

Androgens are virilizing and mostly irreversible, the theoretical genetic template is mostly feminine. That's why you see most genetic disorders giving rise to feminized traits as opposed to masculinized.

I'm interested to see the effects you get from it, but I highly doubt they'll be overwhelming or even worth the cost of the drugs.

>>40399800
I've never liked drinking or partying so I'll be good there!