Can we talk for a moment about . . .

>>38088190

I'll take the bait.


>more range of motion with DB shoulder press than OHP

Touch your fucking collarbone. This one is probably the most easily replaceable one, but you should still do some sort of vertical pressing.

>DB bench superior to BB bench

Once you actually start moving a decent amount of weight (more than your lmao1pl8 max) it becomes difficult to get the DBs into position to start. Furthermore, you cannot progress in weight as easily with DBs as you can with a BB.

>Squats and deadlifts
You've obviously never ever done either of these lifts properly or know what the fuck you're doing with your form. Both work your entire lower body, and your posterior chain in a way that you need multiple other accessory exercises to even come close to replicating. Even then you won't be able to replicate the natural testosterone boost you acquire from doing these movements.

Now, I'm not saying, "Do only these lifts and no accessories," but any lifter, especially a new lifter should make these four lifts the core of their workout routine, and seek to progress with them. If your numbers go up your strength goes up. If you get stronger you can move more weight and do more work. If you do more work you do more volume. If you do more volume, you get bigger.

I came here to say that flys are a meme.

>>38088268
>You've obviously never ever done either of these lifts properly or know what the fuck you're doing with your form. Both work your entire lower body, and your posterior chain in a way that you need multiple other accessory exercises to even come close to replicating. Even then you won't be able to replicate the natural testosterone boost you acquire from doing these movements.
Shit, you beat me to it. I'd still like to put some emphasis on there:
Just the increase in testosterone you get through complex compound movements is immense, OP. So in case you are not roiding, you are basically giving away free gains on a statistically significant level.

If you do roid, then you should take into consideration all the additional muscle groups (especially in the core) you work out by doing free weight compound exercises like squats and deadlifts. A well-developed core achieved by just these two exercises is a bonus in multiple ways: to replace that full core workout with isolating exercises would be a pain and rather complex. It also adds to a general aesthetic (balanced) physique. and, what's most important, it keeps you from getting injured. Now I know that this is a circular argument, as your chances of getting injured while doing simple isolating/machine exercises are considerably smaller than when doing compound movements. But it could be that you use your body to do some strenuous activity IRL, like help a girl carry a new fridge into her apartment - then it matters a lot. It also matters for posture and the development of postural defects, which directly affect your main goal, i.e. aesthetics.

>>38088190
You forgot to mention that decline and incline barbell bench press is much superior than flat. Dummbell flat bench press is ok though.

>>38088190
If you only care about aesthetics then theres already a board for that,

>>>/lgbt/

If you want to build strength then you need all of your compound lifts buddy.

>>38088268
Worth adding to this that the reason squats and deads (particularly squats) have such a drastic effect on hormone regulation is precisely because they tax the body so heavily.

After a proper session of heavy squats or did flies, your test levels DROP significantly because of the systemic stress. Within a certain limit (I think it's up to 30% below your baseline) this causes your body to adapt by up regulating your testosterone over a period of several months if you do it consistently.

No lifts other than these two cause a level of system-wide stress significant enough to take advantage of this effect, so if you don't do them, you're leaving huge amounts of potential on the table.

>>38088440
Source?
Because i've been lifting for 2 years and i've never done either of these but i'm low T

>>38088190
>sort of like how many powerlifters are against a man doing a simple 1-2 sets of curls for some bigger biceps


Name 3 competitive powerlifters that are actually good at powerlifting that say this. Nobody says this shit except neckbeards on internet forums that refuse to do any movement that isn't a multi-joint barbell lift.

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>>38088268
>vertical pressing
for aesthetics? There's no need - if you're talking about shoulder health, posterior delt work is the best bet, regardless of the shoulder training. I'd advocate incline db press over OH db press.

>DB positioning.
Tough argument here. It is touch moving the higher weights - but i would not recommend any insanely low reps for aesthetics anyway. 6-8 is the lowest you should ever go. And weight progression should be done in the traditional body builder sense (adding 1 rep per workout until upper rep limit is reached). Finally, by your argument, if the BB bench is easier to load, then it should only be used as a "last resort" after the trainee is unable to safely get db's into position

>squats and dl's
test boost is a myth and strength progression can EASILY be done on almost any movement, particularly the ones I've mentioned... hip thrusts, leg curls, RDLs, etc. These movements, sans the leg curls, are not accessory movements at all.

>>38088370
Guys, this test myth must be stopped in it's tracks. There simply is not testosterone boost associated with these particular movements. The younger kids are going to get confused here.

>>38088414
Technically correct. Actually, absolutely correct. I don't recommend decline benching of any sort, however, just because it's difficult to retract/stabalize/stay tight on decline. Other wise, the aeshtetic muscle would much prefer a decline DB bench press, combined with a horizontal fly

>>38088423
I've mentioned many compound lifts, all of which will still making you "manly" strong.

>>38088370
Had to come back to this one. RDL works core immensily, and also, I did not advocate against doing squats. I readily admit to the advantages of the basic barbell squat. The leg press is VASTLY underrated for leg development, the anti-leg-press is at an all time high meme status currently.

>>38088190
>sort of like how many powerlifters are against a man doing a simple 1-2 sets of curls for some bigger biceps

thats just /fit/ stupidity

>>38088477
You're right, I should have made it clear I was talking about non-pros.

Elite level athletes are often fans of nearly every exercise, simply for the fact that they love to train.

>>38088506

I'm a powerlifter with a ~380 wilks and I've been training a little more than a year and a half. All of my training ever has had me do curls. Literally the only people who say to not do curls are the fat neckbeards.

ITT: anon discovers strength isnt a prerequisite for aesthetics.

But what if you are training pic related?

Are you really going to tell me this kid needs to do some leg curls and chest flies?

Or does he need some basic 5x5 three times a week, doing squats, bench presses, overhead presses, deadlifts, chin-ups (even if they are assisted), and some basic core work, like planks?

I think what OP is advocating makes a lot of sense for an intermediate lifter who has decided that aeshetics is his only goal. Meanwhile, I do believe, superior movements or not, that most lifters are beginners, and most beginners need just common, basic sense style training.

Most muscular imbalances can be solved be stretching tight muscles before lifting, and perhaps 1-2 sets of "muscle activation sets" as well. So OP says squats are not the best for glutes and hamstrings. I would suggest here that OP does simply 1 set of leg abductions and 1 set of leg curls BEFORE squats. This "activates" the mind-muscle connection, and trust me... when you get to your squats, you can practically isolate these muscles, even while doing a compound movement (speaking metaphorically, of course).

Any way, good luck OP. You're doing God's work, I just disagree at the approach a beginner might have to some simple, 5x5 linear progression for a few months.

>>38088471

Cited in Rippetoe's Practical Programming for Strength Training, pages 95-97, based on a study that hadn't yet been published when the book was written. Google is your friend, Pham.

Basic summary: a sufficiently intense full body workout (which basically has to include squats at the very least) causes between 10% and 30% drop in circulating testosterone for a period after the workout ends. After recovery, this returns to baseline with some super compensation - that is, your body increases circulating test slightly in anticipation to help deal with the stress. Obviously this doesn't mean your test will rise significantly if you squat once, but it will rise if you squat and progressively overload over an extended period (like a year.)

Under 10% drop indicates you didn't even lift. Much over 30% over several sessions leads to overtraining.

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>>38088598

Pic Related, some skinny-fat low test.

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Barbell bench press should be done in the decline and inclined fashion for more chest activation, in the flat bench using dumbbells is superior.

OHP should be done with barbells and dumbbells with a full ROM, not only for deltoid development but for shoulder health in general because they strengthen the rotator cuff muscles.
Lateral raises performed like pic related for maximum deltoid activation are an exercise too.

Back squats are unnecessary for aesthetics, you have to focus on front squats, far more safer and a posture aid for the upper back strengthening effect they have.

I also consider RDLs and excellent and much safer posterior chain builder.

>>38088190
>OHP easily replaced

Stopped reading there. Fuck off retard.

>>38088190
Post body

>>38088268
Post body

>>38088370
Post body

>>38088485
Post body

It should be mandatory to post pics/movement pics when giving out advice.
A literal trap squats 2x """"""""""""her"""""""""""""" bodyweight and posts vid. Think about that.