Will a ketogenic diet kill stage 4 cancer?

>>37276337
it "might" help at best if he has a less healthy diet

That looks fucking delicious Jesus Christ senpai I need that meat in me

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>>37276354

Ok. I was always under the impression that eating a lot of meat and dairy is one of the causes of cancer though. But the doctors are recommending a high-protein, low-carb diet for him, part of which INCLUDES animal protein (beef, chicken, eggs, milk) etc... So I don't understand.

>>37276337
Having ketones in your body certainly helps against certain forms of cancer. However don't expect for it to be a magic bullet. He needs to change his entire lifestyle. High % CBD also seems to help against cancer if taken regularly.

>>37276395
Probably because they don't want literally all of his muscle mass and organs to atrophy you fucking mong

>>37276395
different cancers do different things. some cancer thrives if its given a high carb diet

>>37276395
Cut out the dairy altogether
Increase his fruit and vegetable intake by abounds
Just make sure the meat is cooked well and hes not overdoing it, and I think he could manage it

>>37276395
Nah, low carb is one of the best diets all around because you can stick to it easily after the induction phase of the first 3 weeks. Also ketones are very effective against certain cancers. Because cancer mainly lives from glucose and basically dies if your body runs on ketones

Diet doesn't really matter once it's at that stage desu

Right now it's upto his genetics and how they respond to the cancer and how well his body responds to the medication and treatments.

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>>37276405

I understand that. It's just that there's so much conflicting information online, that it's hard to tell what's truth and what isn't, that's all. I want to see my dad survive this, and I want to make sure he gets proper nutrition.

>>37276421
As in, no need to cut out the meat, I dont think

ahahaha

ahahahaha

Ahahahahahaha

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>37276337
if anything it will make everything worse. he needs to go vegan. animal fats and protein feed the cancerous tissue and strains the immune system

>>37276395
Nigger he already has cancer, he cant get double-cancer from meat.

>>37276434
back to /b/

a good balance of protein, fats, carbs, vitamins, and minerals will do more good than any meme diet.

this website should help you maintain a balanced diet:
>https://cronometer.com

>>37276337

Also radiation and chemo is fucking worse than cancer be prepared for that. my dad had throat and basically said fuck it instead of taking chemo/operations he just changed his lifestyle to a more natural one and survived.

>>37276395
How about he eats what oncologists tell him to instead of what the de-facto closet homo subsection of a Kyrgyz Falconry discussion forum believes.

The idea behind keto btw is that the cancer can't digest ketone bodies well but your body can. At least it's on wiki

>>37276444
>got cancer already
>noway I can get more cancer, or make cancerous growth worse

That's not how this works, anon

>>37276475

>The idea behind keto btw is that the cancer can't digest ketone bodies well but your body can. At least it's on wiki

Ahh yes, sounds just as believable as all the rest of the """science""" behind the keto meme diet.

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>>37276434

OP here. Fuck you.

>>37276492

hey i wasn't laughing at your dad having cancer, that sucks, and it's nice of you to be on here trying to help him get better -- i was laughing at your question because i don't believe in meme fad diets.

>>37276429

Do the keto thing and be strict about it. Also look into Cannabis oil, CBD. You can order that online.

>>37276337
>coming to /fit/ for health advice
Your dad will die that way.

No.

>>37276510

OP here. Thank you. The doctors are gonna give him some THC pills for his appetite, but maybe the oil is more effective?

I've read that colostrum is often given to cancer patients to boost the immune system? Is there any validity to that?

I'm not an expert but if I remember correctly it has a lot to do with sugar and cancer cells. No sugar, hard time for cancer cells.

>>37276510

THC will just make him high, CBD is actually the anti-cancer component. You can buy a high % paste/oil and take a few drops under the tongue.

>>37276555
Whatever ideas you get: discuss it with your dad's doctors first. They know more about this subject than neckbeard autists on 4chin

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>>37276505
>>37276555

http://www.examiner.com/article/low-carb-ketogenic-diet-beats-chemo-for-most-cancers-says-dr-thomas-seyfried

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>>37276607

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ketogenic-diets-for-cancer-hype-versus-science/

>>37276564
>Instead, the cancer cells fueled their growth by swallowing up enormous amounts of glucose (blood sugar) and breaking it down without oxygen. The result made no sense. Oxygen-fueled reactions are a much more efficient way of turning food into energy, and there was plenty of oxygen available for the cancer cells to use. But when Warburg tested additional tumors, including ones from humans, he saw the same effect every time. The cancer cells were ravenous for glucose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/magazine/warburg-effect-an-old-idea-revived-starve-cancer-to-death.html


Like I said, I'm not an expert but I am on keto for over two years now and I feel great. If your dad considers this diet please do your research before you fuck up your liver like some other idiots trying to cut for summer and have no idea what the body needs.

>>37276653
That applefag guy did a vegan diet to try cure his cancer and his doctors said it literally sped up his cancer and killed him even faster. Applefag said he regretted going down the vegan path.

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>>37276607
Did you just nonironically post that link?

>>37276337
tl;dr: it can't hurt to try it alongside chemo

>>37276769
umm of course it can?

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>>37276395
cant get all your protein from plant based sources though, doctors and nutritionists are different.
A vegan diet can reverse some damage so he might live longer than expected, but overall the damage is already done.

I'm sorry anon, my mum just recently got diagnosed on a form of bowel cancer...

>>37276337
Cancer cells can only metabolize glucose. A ketogenic diet will starve them to an extent.

>>37276778
also
http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/foods-for-cancer-prevention

Keto wont stop those cells from multiplying op, im sorry

>>37276778

if it's natural it must be good!

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>>37276810
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHj93P3P7Mw
just following world leading nutritionists research.

Not at all
Cancer is cell mutation gone wrong, basically a cluster of cells that keep splitting infinitely

If he sees increases in health on a keto diet it's cause his previous diet was worse

I know there was this chemical extracted from cannabis that would temporarily stop or slow down this endless reproduction but I'm not sure if it's for cancer all around the board or specific forms and stages plus it's controversial cause weed so it's hard to get

>>37276510
Nice meme

>>37276395
>eating a lot of meat and dairy
Yes but people underestimate what a lot is

A lot as in the dosage you'd expect from a morbid or even extreme obese person, the type of people they talk about in fat stories

>>37276395
Then listen to your fucking doctors you retard. I swear to god, if you're stupid enough to listen to a bunch of underage DYELs on here then I hope you get cancer too.

>>37276840

The problem with these studies is the behavior of eating meat is so tied to eating an unhealthy diet (e.g. fried food, french fries, hamburgers) as opposed to eating green leafy vegetables and exercising.

It's harder to buy the line he's selling when it's so one-sided and their response was that that's just what the science, as a whole, shows. Throughout his videos, he does mention studies on occasion that show results outside the "animal bad" camp but he then goes on to show either the flaws of the study or that even though "animal not bad in this case, plant does the same thing better."

>>37276872

Op here.

Im willing to use any and all resources available to make sure my dad recovers. Even if it means being desperate enough to post here. The fact that you dont know me personally, yet you wish the same fate for me as my dad, shows your lack of maturity and empathy. Please jump into a wood chipper.

>>37276972
Your doctors have told you what will help diet wise: lots of fats and proteins. Presumably you're to add in fibrous, nutritious veggies as well. Beyond that, there's nothing else there to be done diet wise. Somebody already brought up THC oils, which are probably memes but might help, and probably won't hurt. Accrual marijuana is probably better for the pain dulling effects. Aside from that, there isn't much more you can do. I highly recommend getting your dad on some sort of strength training program to help preserve his lean muscle mass because he will lose a ton from treatment.

But seriously man, I just don't want you to listen to fags on here telling you to get your dad on a vegan fruit diet, or to inject some SARM into him or something. You should really stick with scientifically supported advice, even if you're desperate.

>>37276337
Apparently a strict keto diet can kill cancer. But literally not a single carb. Make sure the foods he eats have zero carbs if you want this to work. Remember stuff like milk is still carb-laden.

>>37277239
>>37276633

>>37276337
I feel for you and your dad bro. goodluck to you both.

>>37277902

Thank you.

>>37278218
Listen, taking advice from a fitness board on the internet is one thing. Taking advice from a fitness board on 4chan is another. You've already shown you know jack shit about cancer from what you've posted and I can definitely say that the broscience on here is not coming from qualified doctors. You're doctors have a treatment plan for your father, you've already said they've given you a diet for him. Stick to that shit because they're the guys who know what the fuck they're talking about. You want your Dad to be healthy? Listen to the fucking doctors.

>>37276337
No it won't, stage 4 means it has gone metastatic. Ensure your dad eats enough food since losing your appetite is common on chemo et al and stop coming to /fit/ for medical advice, no one here is an oncologist.

I hope your dad pulls through.

>>37278483
So this.

If he's doing chemo it's going to be hard for him to keep stuff down. Godspeed OP, hope things work out OK.

>>37276490
>Doctors recommend it.
>Lmao it's just maymay. IIFYM is better, trust me, I'm a food scientist.

>>37278683
strawman

>>37276395
Just listen to the doctors and stop being a retard.

>>37278693
But calling a diet with actual science behind it, as well as what OP's doctors are recommending isn't? Fuck off.

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>>37278727

>american """healthcare"""

>>37278748
OP didn't say he was American.

>>37278764
he told me behind your back

>>37278769
Guess what your mother and I did behind yours.

>>37278784

too far man

>>37278801
sorry anon

>>37276337

Not but these magic beans in my possession will. Just send $5000 my way...

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>>814

*doesn't forgive you*

Asking for health advice regarding cancer on /fit/ is probably not the best idea.

You might as well ask how much he should squat so he can give his cancer a one way bus ticket to snapcity

>>37276337
I'm sorry anon, I know how rough this is. My uncle went a cancer diagnosis when I was younger.

Keto can absolutely hel!. The thing is, when the chemo hits its really hard for you body to absorb protein from most sources - the only 100% bioavailable protein is if he gets it from you daily. At least, tht's what helped my uncle get through his cancer.

>>37278970
Seconded

The best source is your own protein because your body had already broken it down into its constituent amino acids so your dad can easily digest them

>>37276446
>MUST
>HAVE
>CARBS
>for muh energeez
The original and only meme diet.

>>37278933

Everything that has been posted here, minus the sarcastic posts, has been
helpful. Its sad that people have such ugliness inside.

Forgive me though if I dont readily entrust my faith in doctors 100%. I trust, but I try to verify too.

One thing to keep in mind is, cancer prevention and cancer treatment are very different modes of living. For example, antioxidants seem to be good for cancer prevention but bad for cancer treatment (presumably, antioxidants reduce the efficacy of chemo/etc.). Don't conflate the two.

>>37279433
This

>>37276337
No. If you understand science you will know this is bullshit.

>>37276395
Doctors are businessmen, animal products raise IGF-1 levels which will grow the tumor more.

A vegan diet with a lot of broccoli is the only sane option.

>>37280638
>Doctors are businessmen, animal products raise IGF-1 levels which will grow the tumor more.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20148110
The present study provides evidence that reducing the dietary carbohydrate:protein ratio attenuates the development of mammary tumors

>A vegan diet with a lot of broccoli is the only sane option.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cbf.3106/abstract
The consumption of raw broccoli caused a significant 27% increase in DNA damage in colonocytes

>>37276663

Are you literally retarded?

>>37280719
What about IGF-1 ? Aka the cancer hormone?
He can still get the ratio he wants on a vegan diet
Broccoli has anti cancer chemicals.

>>37280900
"Despite the elevation of IGF-I in the HPMC group, the rate of tumor incidence was significantly lower."

>>37276395
Cancer patients often get killed by cachexia, muscle atrophy. You might seriously try getting him grey market research chemicals like Ostarine as well.

>>37276653

Great article, anon. Just read it in full. Big eye opener.

>>37276426

>Because cancer mainly lives from glucose and basically dies if your body runs on ketones

Ketone bodies promote cancer growth

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3507492/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047616/

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>>37280332

Cancer cells love glucose and arise in the presence of it. If you cut out the carbs (glucose) from your diet, you cut off a major catalyst to cancer. That's not to say that other lesser catalysts don't exist. But you will, theoretically, reduce your odds of getting cancer as result. What about that process are you doubtful of?

>>37281134

If there is one thing I've learned in this thread, it's that it seems that everything can kill you. Everything. Cancer scientists have the patience of saints to keep up their research without despairing.

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Here's the guide of the American Institute for Cancer Research for people with cancer

http://www.aicr.org/assets/docs/pdf/education/heal-well-guide.pdf

"Be wary of easy answers. It is human nature to look for quick fixes that solve health problems, but cancer is complex."

>AICR Recommends:
>Eat mostly foods of plant origin.
>Eat at least five portions/servings of a variety
of non-starchy vegetables and fruits every day.
Examples of a serving: 1 cup raw or cooked
vegetables or 1 medium apple
>Eat whole grains and/or legumes (beans and
lentils) with every meal.
>Evidence suggests that dietary patterns emphasizing plant-based foods promote health and may reduce cancer risk for survivors. A practical way to do this is to make a habit of filling at least 2/3 of your plate with vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, and nuts, while apportioning 1/3 or less of your plate to poultry, fish, lean meats, and low-fat dairy and plant-based proteins
>Be moderately physically active for at least 30
minutes every day, and as you become more fit, work toward 60 minutes.
>Limit Consumption of Red and ProcessedMeats
>Try to go meatless several times a week. Opt for meatless meals such as a vegetable stir-fry, hearty bean soups, or black bean burritos.

Basically the same kind of diet you'd eat to prevent/treat heart disease or diabetes. Lots of unprocessed plant foods, less meat/dairy/eggs, more vegetarian meals, be more lean, exercise daily.

He may not make it, but that'll give the best chance.

>>37281197

Not totally true. Cancer cells can use a lot of things as fuel, including ketone bodies and cholesterol. The advantage of foods that provide glucose is that, atleast for unprocessed foods, they also provide compounds that help kill cancer cells and prevent them from spreading to other parts of the body. Cutting out soda and hot dog buns is a great idea, cutting out sweet potatoes, oats, and berries just does more harm.

http://www.aicr.org/foods-that-fight-cancer

>>37281025

IGF-1 promotes cancer, that's like the 1+1=2 of the medical literrature.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21196186
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/er.2008-0022
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19139887
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3113287/?tool=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19142965

recommending animal products to cancer patients is retarded.

>>37276492
Lmaooooo

>>37281304
>>37281197

Also, even if you cut carbs out of your diet, you'd still have glucose in your blood because your other cells still need glucose and your body will still make glucose from protein. The no glucose = no cancer logic is a bit like saying "if you just drain all the blood from your body, you'll cut off the cancer cells' food supply and be cancer free"

>>37281257
hi sir, what do you think about the abominations in this thread who suggested IGF-1 raising animal foods to a cancer patient ?
do you think that they are egg/milk/beef board shills?

>>37281404
they're just insanely stupid.
But I'm wondering where the hell he'd get any protein/calories from that diet. He'll be weak as hell from chemo and not getting enough cals

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I literally just read an article about a guy using a ketogenic when he had a brain tumor. He was also on chemotherapy and all that, but apparently people with brain tumors have a cert low chance of survival, and at best they often can only extend their lives by 15 months.

The ketogenic diet he put himself on was pretty hardcore. I'm talking insect flour and animal organs like hearts and brains.

But the science behind it is that "our cells usually get their energy from glucose, which comes from carbs. But when these aren't available, the liver breaks down fat into fatty acids and chemicals ketones which our cells can burn for energy instead. Cancerous cells are particularly glucose hungry and, unlike other cells, don't have the ability to switch fuel sources. " so basically you're starving the cancer cells.

Unfortunately I can't link the article because it's a paid subscription magazine. It's awesome, called new scientist.

The guy's name is Andrew Scarborough maybe you could just Google his name. Either way he's still alive now after 3 years when usually the prognosis is 15 months.

>>37281404

>do you think that they are egg/milk/beef board shills?

Not shills, just misguided. Most of them probably either aren't that familiar with this kind of nutrition science or they can't help but project their diet and preferences when giving diet advice

>>37281496

>But the science behind it is that "our cells usually get their energy from glucose, which comes from carbs. But when these aren't available, the liver breaks down fat into fatty acids and chemicals ketones which our cells can burn for energy instead. Cancerous cells are particularly glucose hungry and, unlike other cells, don't have the ability to switch fuel sources. " so basically you're starving the cancer cells.

The idea is fundementally flawed, already pointed out in the thread. Sometimes you see articles where people claim to have used the power of prayer to cure cancer. It's bullshit.

>>37281086

LGD is my anticachexia durg of choise

>>37279060
Low carb literally lowers life span. Modern nutritionists/scientists are leaning towards getting most of your food from plant based diets. If your fats are over 30% of your cals you're doing it so wrong. Also lol at your health if you're eating more than the recommended intake for saturated fat and cholesterol. Lol if you're not eating an abundance of fruits and veggues for getting all your micros. If you take a multi you're a fuckin noob getting fucked by the industry. Let alone any supplement besides b12, vit D

>>37281255
>>37281304
>>37281375

I never said what you said I said. But you did repeat what I said as your own idea. Good job.

>>37281404
What makes you think plant proteins in sufficient quantities won't raise IGF-1?

>>37281869

their amino acid composition and ratio of non-essential amino acids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16201743

>Vegetarians have a significantly higher intake of non-essential amino acids arginine and pyruvigenic amino acids glycine, alanine, serine. When plant protein is high in non-essential amino acids, down-regulation of insulin and up-regulation of glucagon is a logical consequence. The action of glucagon in the liver is mediated by stimulation of adenyl cyclase that raises cyclic-AMP (adenosine-3,5-monophosphate) concentrations. Cyclic-AMP down-regulates the synthesis of a number of enzymes required for de novo lipogenesis and cholesterol synthesis, up-regulates key gluconeogenic enzymes and the LDL receptors and decreases the IGF-1 activity (insulin-like growth factor). Cyclic-AMP thus provides a reduction of atherosclerosis risk factors as well as a retardation of cancer development. A sufficient consumption of plant proteins has the protective effects against chronic degenerative diseases (Tab. 2, Ref. 26).

>>37281989
Has this been shown in RCTs? Genuinely curious.

>>37282020

no human rcts that I know of. maybe some day they'll test cancer survival in a trial but this is a pretty hard thing to make an rct for

>you guys go do what you're used to doing, you're the control group
>now you guys become strict vegans for several years so we can see what happens, no cheating

practically impossible if they have to control for placebo, which they would have to do to avoid people saying

>the experimental group just got less cancer because they were more motivated and positive over their diet and mood affects cancer outcomes

>>37282111
I meant, has plant protein been shown to not induce an increase in IGF-1 not cancer survival

>>37280638
>vegan cucks are this retarded

>>37282125
>>37282111
Also nice trips

>>37276337
This is completely retarded.

>>37276395
If real, switch doctors.
If bait, nice bait you got me responding

>>37282169
What he said. I've heard of people beating cancer by being vegan but never eating extra meat.
Cancer industry in general is fcuked up chemo probably should almost never be used but ur dads in such a late stage I doubt Michigan else has a chance.

Also most important teach him how to smoke or preferably vape weed it will help with everything a lot. If u can get ur hands r rso that will help a lot too

>>37282243
>I've heard of people beating cancer by being vegan
Bullshit, diet alone won't cure cancer

>Cancer industry in general is fcuked up chemo probably should almost never be used
Oh, you're an idiot.

>>37278683
>>Doctors recommend it.
Not for normal, healthy people.

>>37281360
All of those are just speculation and epidemiological associations for certain cancer subsypes, not the '1+1=2 of the medical literrature'. Do you have any education at all?

There are other cancer subtypes that don't give a shit about systemic IGF-1, some don't even express IGF-1R. I just showed you a therapy which in a model raises IGF-1 yet inhibits cancer progression.

>>37281603
You are an uninformed idiot, no suprise on /fit/.

>>37276381
I can put some meat in you

>>37276337
lol, no. no way in hell will a diet "kill" cancer.
desu, stage 4, it sounds hopeless. i think he should eat a stage 4 heart attack meal eeryday.

>>37276395
If it's stage 4 you better be ready to try some shit.

Get him smoking some real dank weed. It's worked before.

>>37276337
Whole plant whole foods vegan diet to fight against cancer. Obviously the doctors will be telling him to eat more cancerous foods like meat and dairy so he's forced to pay for more medical treatment.

And keto is arguably one the worst diets for you. Cutting out carbs, which is the brains food? Lol! No whole grains? No fruits? And instead you're eating steak and eggs which are known to cause heart disease and promote cancer? Seriously. Never listen to doctors when it comes to diet.

>>37283800
http://www.cancer.gov/publications/patient-education/eatinghints.pdf

>People with cancer often need to follow diets that are different from what they think of as healthy.

>When you have cancer, though, you need to eat to keep up your strength to deal with the side effects of treatment. When you are healthy, eating enough food is often not a problem. But when you are dealing with cancer and treatment, this can be a real challenge. When you have cancer, you may need extra protein and calories. At times, your diet may need to include extra milk, cheese, and eggs. If you have trouble chewing and swallowing, you may need to add sauces and gravies. Sometimes, you may need to eat low-fiber foods instead of those with high fiber. Your dietitian can help you with any diet changes you may need to make.

But I'm sure you know more about cancer cachexia, which can kill if not managed properly, than a team of oncologists and dieticians. Where'd you get your degree? Reddit university?

Tell him to drink 3 drops of hash oil a day

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>>37283997
>yes. good goy, yes. List government.org as a reputable source. Promote the meat and dairy industry by saying you need high protein low fibre foods to cope with your cancer. Let them know you need our heavily modified factory farming animals that are plagued with sickness and disease to shoo that cancer away. And when you're done don't forgot to buy another round of chemotherapy and the other expensive treatment!

>>37283997
*5 shekels have been deposited into your shilling account*

Good goy. Good. Shine a good light on the meat and dairy industry. And if they talk back, remember to cite government websites as your back up and deny everything they say

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>>37283997
>anon makes a post about how doctors tell you to eat foods that are intentionally bad for you so you keep coming back to pay for medicine which in return will keep it funded
>you list a government website to try and refute it

>>37276337
Look into cannabis oil, not memeing anon just do it.

>>37284179
>>37284224
>>37284261

Medfag here, a lot of studies concentrate on reducing risk of cancer, of which a Chinese meta-analysis found that vegetarians get cancer 18% less overall than non-vegetarian diets. Cancer patients should concentrate on getting nutrient-dense foods that contain substantial amounts of key nutrients in relation to the dietary energy they provide. Nutrient dense calories include fruits, vegetables, nuts, and select high quality dairy products and meats. The guy was just trying to help, take your tinfoil hats off.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2013/917647/
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8746358&fileId=S1368980012000936
http://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/337301

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>>37283997
>if you have stage 4 cancer eat eggs and beef, which are known to cause and promote cancer

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>>37284179
>>37284224
>>37284261
Oh sorry, didn't realize this was an /x/ thread. I'll leave now.

Diet is not going to do shit once you HAVE cancer. That's the point.

They prescribed a high protein diet because one of the best predictors of doing well with chemo is being healthy and having weight to lose.

They want your dad to retain any LBM he can and if possible gain weight.

Because once you're too light/too weak you can't receive anymore chemo, or rather they'll try and you'll die to the chemo.

There's nothing to do with "it'll help cure it"

>>37284314
If those links and studies were even remotely credible we would have heard about them from Vegan GGains.

Not going to waste my time reading shitty studies funded by the government and meat and dairy industry that preach eggs and steaks are good for your health when there's dozens and dozens of doctors, scientists and studies proving other wise. Enjoy your heart disease tho. For the sake of intelligent people everywhere. Please keep eating eggs so the human gene pool can be cleansed.

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>>37283997
>>37284314
>government studies

Wew lad

>>37284316
>>37284355
>>37284261
>>37284179


I GO HARD IN THE MOTHERFUCKING PAINT NIGA

SHIT POST EVERYDAY NIGA

SAMEFAG EVERYTHREAD NIGA

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>>37284397

LEAVE YOU STANKIN' NIGGA, WHAT THE FUCK YOU THINKIN' NIGGA?

I'M GON' DIE FOR THIS SHIT OR WHAT THE FUCK I SAY

>>37276395
> a lot of meat and dairy is one of the causes of cancer though.

but your dad already has cancer, anon.

The doctors are not recommending a diet to lower the chance of getting cancer, but a diet to increase your dad's chance of surviving.
Good luck bro.

>>37282261
Diet alone can totally prevent cancer (if you don't expose yourself to other relevant factors of risk like swimming in a nuclear plant or smoking one pack a day), and it may always slow it down when it's too late.

>>37284915
Sure, because increasing IGF-1 and completely disregarding the pursue of an alkaline environment (that can be pursued only with a COMPLETE removal - amongst the others - of meats) totally increases this faggot's dad chance of surviving, right.

>>37285067
Not to mention that a "keto" diet is toxic per se
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16779921
"Keto" is difficult to sustain for healthy individuals. Suggesting it to a chemo patient is just dark humour.

>>37276633
Steven Novella's blog is my go to source for meme health science.

>>37276381
Anyone know how to cook exactly that meal in OPs photo

>>37276337
Look up Dr. Sebi.

>>37276337
Cannibis oil

>>37284991
>Diet alone can totally prevent cancer
Hence why I said alone diet cannot CURE cancer asswipe. And no, diet alone will not make you immune from getting cancer, it may reduce the risk but that's it.

No one cured cancer by going vegan as a monotherapy, google gerson's scam and see for yourself.

>>37288983
Hence why I made a distinction between prevention and slowing it down. I can't imagine how pitiful your life can be if you think you have to assert your opinion over and over even against people sharing concepts not incompatible with your posts.
>reduce the risk
next to zero, assumed that there's no other relevant factor of risk.
Never mentioned "going vegan as monotherapy", I just referenced that the diet can play a role in slowing down a present cancer.

>>37276337
This is a fascinating area I've been interested in researching. Current research is limited, but in short:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect#Oncology
>most cancer cells predominantly produce energy by a high rate of glycolysis followed by lactic acid fermentation in the cytosol,[4] rather than by a comparatively low rate of glycolysis followed by oxidation of pyruvate in mitochondria as in most normal cells.

Basically this means that cancer cells have problems in their mitochondria and so have to rely on anaerobic respiration, i.e. glycolysis (which as an aside, is why cancer cells are surrounded by an acidic environment, which is one of the main reasons this "alkaline diet" nonsense started).

This means that cancer cells essentially rely on glucose (carbs), as other types of respiration require the mitochondria (therefore, cancer cells can't use fats or ketones as a fuel source). PET scans work using the knowledge that to compensate, cancer cells use massive amounts of glucose compared to normal cells.

However, even on a keto diet, you will still have glucose in your blood stream, meaning cancer cells can use it. However, here's a review article discussing the positive results in this area:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/

So why is this if cancer cells can still use glucose at low blood levels? Current hypothesis are around ketones causing oxidative stress in cancer cells and some hypothesise a role for the Randle cycle, though again I should stress research in this area is at a very early stage still and most studies done are either on animals, in vitro, or very small human sample sizes.

As somebody who has survived stage IV blood cancer (lymphoma) and as a medical student with an interest in nutritional interventions, I would suggest start radio and chemo; once used to this a little, add a ketogenic diet. Never opt for keto over proper therapy. Keto should be used as an addition, not a substitute.

>>37276395
Protein = muscle sparing
Fat = calorie dense
You realise you get nauseous and shit from chemo, right?

>>37289863
>"alkaline diet" nonsense
Oh look, an high schooler has read some article on wikipedia and he's ready to spout bullshits. Colour me surprised.
>suggesting keto
>trust me I'm a med student who survived cancer
>>>/b/

>>37276395
Cancer cells get most of their energy from glycolysis, which can only use carbohydrates.
As a result, a veto diet would help to slow the spread of the cancer.

>>37289863
>Massive amounts of glucose
Ok, but so does the brain and iirc it can function on ~5g of glucose/day. I'd think gluconeogenesis would provide plenty while costing more energy due to the keto diet = even weaker patient.

>>37276337
There's a performance enhancing drug called ITPP (myo-inositol trispyrophosphate). Basically it releases more oxygen from RBC for you to use. This has the side effect of fighting cancer somewhat, since cancer likes hypoxic enviroments and doesn't do well when you raise the oxygen level.

There's also that antibiotic thing.
"The antibiotics fought seven of the most common cancers – including breast, prostate, lung and hard-to-treat brain tumours." (doxycycline)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2930753/Has-girl-eight-cancer-cure-Scientist-parents-discover-antibiotics-kill-cells-daughter-suggested-try-dinner-table.html

ITPP works is still quite effective orally, less than injected but still high.


If something at least slows cancer profileration, it'll make treatments that kill it like chemo more effective.

ITPP also has the advantage of enhancing cardio, so that they can still move around more when receiving chemo.

>>37276337
>>37290143
You may also want to combine it with other drugs like one to stimulate apetite (which a doctor may already prescribe for keto).

Weight loss is a major killer for chemo patients, they get weak, and their body is more susceptible to the cancer coming back, then it is down hill from there.


If I had cancer, I'd be taking an apetite stimulant drug, ITPP, and an anabolic drug to increase protein synthesis, potentially LGD since it's been studied in mega doses and found to be safe for human consumption at the least. I'd be lifting somewhat while on this too, and taking whey.

>>37289863
>let's pump IGF-1/IGFR1-IR/PI3K/kinase B up and let's keep insulin binding down WITH FUCKING KETO
>in the meanwhile let's remove 90% of the dietary fibres
and that's why I know you're retarded.

>>37290076
Your statement's ironic given your stance on the alkaline diet. I didn't tell him to trust me, I offered him advice. He should of course research the area himself and make an informed decision.

>>37290094
You're correct, the brain does normally use glucose as its primary fuel given that fatty acids cannot cross the blood brain barrier. Another cell type which normally solely uses glucose is red blood cells (as they do not have mitochondria).

This is the reason the body creates ketones when low on glucose. All tissues, some preferentially so, can use ketones. In fact, research suggests that the brain and heart actually function better on ketones than they do on glucose and fatty acids respectively. During ketosis, 70% of the brain's energy comes from ketone bodies.

>>37290183
>in the meanwhile let's remove 90% of the dietary fibres

Who suggested that? I do agree that the IGF-1 cascade is an interesting area for future therapeutic targetting though but again is an area which isn't fully understood.

just listen to the fucking doctors you retard

>>37276337
>>37290143
>>37290179

Abstracts from the 8th conference on cachexia (essentially wasting away from cancer and related treaments)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4670752/

There's plenty of studies on experiment drugs, peds/grey market drugs, and existing drugs (like formoterol) in there that aren't yet prescribed for cancer usage.

As well as things like "Exercise attenuates body protein losses and enhances muscle protein turnover and sympathetic activity during body weight reduction"

>>37290183
>keto means high protein
and that's why I know you're retarded

>>37290201
>Your statement's ironic given your stance on the alkaline diet.
Your blissful yet ennui ignorance is not so ironic.

>>37290232
>keto means fat with no meat
And that's how I know you're both retarded and someone who hasn't even bothered to read the diet plan administered to those poor fucks in the cited papers.

>>37290239
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3195546/
>There is no scientific literature establishing the benefit of an alkaline diet for the prevention of cancer at this time.

Would happily change my opinion if you can back up with some sources.

>>37290271
>How do I into reading comprehension?

Didn't say no meat, just implied keto wasn't high protein. High protein will just be converted to glucose so is limited with fat making up ~70% of caloric intake and protein the majority of the remainder in a true keto diet. I'll admit that the diets used in studies often aren't ideal in this respect but I guess they were attempting to make then sustainable for cancer patients.

Just tell your dad "b urself"

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I'm actually a head and neck surgical oncologist. You make recognize me as the guy who makes a thread on my job on /b/ every few months.

With regards to diet, most important thing is simply finding a program that your father will tolerate and help him keep weight on.

Staging in head and neck cancer is different than other tumors. Stage IV does not mean his goose is cooked. Stage IVA or IVB disease is curable with chemotherapy and radiation, while stage IVC indicates widely metastatic disease which is not curable.

The radiation is going to roast his throat. He's going to have a really, really hard and painful time swallowing. Ignore the broscience morons in this thread. He needs calories and protein, in that order.

I usually recommend my patients supplement their diet with Ensure Plus (at least one with each meal) or Two Cal HN (one or two a day) to help keep weight on and stay swallowing. The radiation can stenose off the esophagus, so it's essential to keep swallowing, even if he requires a feeding tube.

There's no evidence that a certain diet will improve oncologic outcomes. There is evidence that protein-calorie malnutrition severely impacts survival.

>>37289346
>I can't imagine how pitiful your life can be if you think you have to assert your opinion over and over even against people sharing concepts not incompatible with your posts.
Calm down edgelord

>next to zero
Air pollution is still one of the biggest causes of respiratory tract cancers, what are you going to do not breathe? Sure I'll buy you can move to the countryside but you will still be exposed to some regardless.